All right, lets bring this hearing to order. In december of 2017, President Trump outlined a bold space in december of 2017, President Trump outlined a bold vision to reinvigorate space leadership. Space leadership calls for returning humans to the moon for the First Time Since 1972. This time it will be for long time exploration and use and will be followed by manned missions to mars. Nasa had planned to return to the moon by 2028, but in the speech to the National Space council in april, Vice President announced a dramatic acceleration of that time line. Cil in april, Vice President announced a dramatic acceleration of that time line. Under the program, the United States will land the first woman and the next man on the moon by 2024 and accomplish a sustained presence on the moon or in lunar orbit. I share the administrations sense of urgency. As i told the administrator, the United States has entered a new space race driven by the expansion of chinas space power ambitions and the explosive potential growth for space commerce. I support setting clear goals on ambitious time lines to achieve mission success. However, in order to reach these goals, nasa and its partners will have to accomplish a great deal of work in a short amount of time. The space launch system, s. L. S. Rocket and orion need to be tested as soon as possible. We need to build multi component Lunar Landing systems and gateway outpost that docks them. Needs to be assembled in space and i know as i continue to pursue these ambitious goal, nasa will maintain its safety. It should include the completion of a full green test and there is no better place than at the space center in mississippi. The cost is a challenge for nasa. In may, the administration submitted a Budget Amendment for 1. 6 billion in additional funding to the schedule, an amount that the administrator has called a downpayment. The administrator said it could 30 billion. Ion to that calls on the congress to billion. E 4 Congress Needs more details on the funding requirements so we can be good stewards. Repiratizeation needs to include early and detailed consultation with this committee and the congress to ensure critical programs are not undermined. I look forward to the administrator to shedding light on these needs and what is required to address different components, specifically the ateway osh builter in order to have the program. It remipeds of all of past progress. But constantly changing Mission Priorities and goals set far in the future have caused americas progress, congress will perform its oversight duties and we need to provide nasa with the clarity of purpose and funding it needs for success. I want you to succeed. Im excited about this. And i hope the hearing will provide necessary insight to ke good on the legacy of apollo. And i go to senator cantwell. Thanks for holding this important hearing about the plans to return astronauts to the surface of the moon. 50 years ago, and five days later on july 20, 1969, astronauts armstrong andal doctrine were the first people to work on the moon. They landed 10 more americans d i should say three lunar recovers. Just as importantly, the Apollo Program inspired engineers and scientists, some of them went on to space careers and many of them went on to other careers of high technology. These dreamers and thirst firmly accomplished the United States as a Global Leader in innovation and technology. The space race perpetrated a thriving commercial space industry and i am proud of those companies that reside in the state of washington and many washington scientists and engineers to help us. The benefits of Space Exploration. Nasa should continue to push the boundaries of space rnings exploration and technology and nasa has outlined a plan. I appreciate that nasa is looking at the partnerships that the commercial Space Community can give in that relationship and in Space Exploration. Today nasa has been developing the rocket and spacecraft need for deep Space Exploration for more than nine years and nasas n estimation that they wont fly until 2022. They have studied the hardware needed for Lunar Mission and these key pieces can fall together in the next five years. I know you made some changes at the organization the head of human exploration and with that and nasas retirement of the space shuttle, the question of where is the leadership within the organization can deliver on this goal will be some of the things i will drill down on the question and answer part of this hearing. Nasa has yet to deliver a congressional budget for the mission beyond 2020. It is difficult for us to approve the mission unless we know the actual cost. While we sell plate this accomplishment and the fact you are continuing to be pioneers in space we need to look at the next chapter of exploration. I appreciate the vision, but i look forward to hearing from you on just exactly how we are going to meet this challenge. Thank you for holding this hearing and i would like into aerospace ead of Advisory Board who has highlighted it. Thank you, senator cantwell. And you are recognized for an opening statement. As the Ranking Member identified, we did five Additional Missions after that. A total of 12 people walked on the surface of the moon and then the program ended. I think that has kind of been a letdown for nasa over the last 50 years. We want to continue doing these stunning achievements and go further and explore more. We think about the history of the Apollo Program. Mythology, apollo had a twin sister. Her name was artemis. She was the goddess of the moon. This time under the enemys program when we go forward to the moon sustainably, we go with a very diverse, highly qualified Astronaut Corps that includes women. We have direction from the Vice President , who, of course, is the chairman of the National Space council, that within five years we will land the next man and the first woman, he said on the south pole of the moon. I think that is an important distinction as well. All of these years we believed the moon was bone dry. Arenow now that there hundreds of thousands of tons of on the south pole of the moon. It represents water to drink. When h2o is converted, it is the same fuel that powered the moon. Ave access to the entirety of the moon so we dont miss water ice which we missed for almost 40 y powered the mission to the moon. To all parts of the moon any time we want and want this as the proving ground. This is the proving ground. It is how we learn to live and work using the resources of that world so we can take that technology and capability to mars. That is the longterm vision and we have a good start. As the chairman identified, we certainly have in the president s budget request, come out of the gate. As far as the trades we need to make to go to the moon sustainbly with an eye towards march s and do it in away that is commensurate with the budgets of the United States. Thank you for holding this hearing on the anniversary of apoll hoo and i look forward to answering any questions. I must have misspoken earlier when i said that this was the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. I was a freshman in college at the time and that could not possibly have been 50 years ago. M going to ask my staff to recalculate no one questioned you. [laughter] something thats going to be safe. Here is talk about not getting and get number for defense ondefense discretionary, getting to october 1 and move it to a c. R. , maybe a shortterm, twoweek c. R. , month long or maybe a year long. That would be counterproductive to get to where you need to go, is that correct, and how would it affect you . It would be devastating. What we lack right now is a lander, the United States of america has not had a moon lander since 1972, the last time we landed on the surface of the moon. Thats something we need to develop. Of course we have commercial partners and they have been investing their own money and we are thrilled by that. We have opportunities to achieve this goal because of the investments, some of them have already made and a number of them. We are talking about a number of private companies that have invested money. Its not cheap to build a lander and looking for support from nasa and we want to be that support. This is an important thing and in the end with the publicprivate partnership, they will have customers that are not nasa. We will have more access and grow the space economy. All of that being said, if we end up in a c. R. , that lander doesnt get developed. And we dont have money in the budget to develop a lander. It takes a good bit of time which is why we need to get started right away. If we are in a c. R. For a year or more, it would be devastating to achieve to land the next man and woman. A c. R. , continuing resolution sounds innocuous. Its way worse than that . It is. A lot of people associate and i can tell you, they associate a c. R. With keeping things steady. The reality is we then do not make investments we need to make but even worse, we continue to make investments that we dont need to make. It is a waste of money when we end up in a c. R. And that is one of my biggest concerns we will be spending money on things we dont need. You told the committee in martha nasa would examine all available options to ensure the first flight of the s. L. S. Now mis. D arte how confident are you that we can meet that deadline . I think 2020 one is definitely achievable for the arguments one lunch vehicle. As has already been identified but the Ranking Member, we have made some changes at the head of the Human Exploration Missions directory. Some of the key challenges we have had as an agencys cost and schedule, being realistic about cost and schedule, and meeting the cost and schedule milestones that we ourselves set. So in order to reset the cost and schedule of some of these programs, we have made changes at the top of the mission directory. We are moving rapidly to put the right folks in place, but i want them to be in place before we set out a new deadline for artemis one. I say that because we need by and from people who make the gency. Some of the challenges we have had in the past, nasa has not been good at setting realistic budgets and schedules and we need to get better at that. So before we announce a new date, i want to make sure we have new leadership in place. Quickly, with regard to green run, are you still determined to do it . Green run is absolutely in the baseline plan. Suarez the scope of the green run, i dont know what that will like. We will get a team in place to assess the situation and i would be more than happy to report. Some senator . Thank you, mr. Chairman. You mentioned the human space expiration administrators. Who will be making decisions on artemis . We want to make sure that we have new leadership in place before we make those decisions. Ertainly, we have experienced, qualified folks in acting positions. Amely, human extortion and Operations Command the associate administrator command the Development Division with an human expiration. We have acting folks who have been at the agency long time. In fact, they are just getting the positions. Want to find the absolute best talent and move quickly. That does not affect your decisionmaking . Within the next six weeks, it will not heard not. But before we make commitments on the scope or timelines, i want to make sure the new team is in place and have realistic costs and schedules. So that it is their cost and schedule and they can be held accountable. You think that was something that was missing before . We have a long history of costs of schedules not being set in a realistic way and not achieving our cost of schedules. In many cases, that leads to a lack of confidence from the key people that we need, namely folks on this committee i definitely believe in system testing through testing. Very important. When can we expect to see a budget . The 2021 Budget Development is underway right now. We are working within the administration to come up with what the trades are so we can can accurate budget presented for 2021. Within that budget, you will see our funding for the Artemis Program through 2024. You think we will be able to see an extrapolation of that number. No, i think you will see the dollars that we are looking at spending for the years 2022, 202 3, 2024 to achieve that milestone. So we have a number is what you are saying. It will be soon . It will be in the regular 2021 budget process, so february 2020. Thank you. I thank you for artemis. I hope that in this next mission, we can use whatever tools we have to call on americas brightest women engineers to participate in the process. As we have all looked at video of the last launch, we can see one thing is missing. We dont see a lot of women in the control rooms or in those pictures, but i appreciate the fact that you are trying to uphold an image and i hope that we will do some serious work at trying to use that as a tool. There are not a lot of tools where we are calling on women to help with such a national mission. I hope that we are able to do that. One thing we can do here on the committee because we are not going to build the launch system for you but we can make sure we get weather situation correct. One of the things, when chairman here, he said there were no issues raised by nasa. Can we get more on how accurate weather forecasting information is, for both you and the public . Yes, maam. When we think about the 24 gigahertz part of the electromagnetic spectrum, 4g or 5g, depending on the decibel level, it will definitely bleed over to the 23. 6 gigahertz part of the electromagnetic spectrum. There is risk that when it bleeds over, some of the sensors in space that are looking at the earth to characterize water vapor and energy of that water vapor, some of that data could be interfered with, corrupted. I want to be really clear, this was a study done by nasa on behalf of noaa. Nasa did not have a dog in this fight, other than having great scientists and engineers to do this kind of analysis. We do have one or two missions that use that part of the spectrum, but nothing compared to what noaa has for weather prediction. This is a weather prediction effort, and i can tell you that depending on the decibel level in that 23. 6 gigahertz, we could lose significant data. Depending on that level, we could lose up to 70 of that data. And if that were to happen, it would affect our ability to withoutweather, question. I do think there could be an elegant solution. And this is outside my area, it is not nasas job to do this. But i do think there is an elegant solution where the decibel level could be modified to the point were we could get all of the weather data we need the gigahertzate for 5g. Might require additional cell towers, that kind of thing. But there are others who should be considering that. But i will tell you, there is a risk here. I think they are legitimate concerns. Thank you mr. Chairman. Although it is not your thing, it is vitally important. It is. Have you had a conversation with chairman pai twoperson about this issue person to person about this issue . Noaa. A did this study for i understand. Thank you. Next, i believe it is senator scott. He is not here. Senator gardner. Senator gardner thank you for being here. Last night, i have the opportunity to walk down the mall and see thousands of americans, people from around the globe gathered at the mall to watch the incredible projection of the saturn rocket on the washington monument. And it was a time to see families together. Some were having picnics or telescopes out on the mall. They had cameras and tshirts emblazoned with the nasa logo in celebration of a historic accomplishment 50 years ago. It made me incredibly proud of this country, and i hope that we can find more moments like that to celebrate. Not just in this, but in so many achievements this country has accomplished. In times of Great Division and political strife, things like this can bring the country together. And you saw it last night on the mall, and i think i even texted you picture a picture. Thank you for doing that. It was a great picture. When you look back to the opportunities we have in space, just around the hearing room, my guess is a significant majority of people in this hearing room were not here years ago when the United States embarked on this incredible effort. So our generation, mars could mean an incredible amount of new opportunity and hope for our country. What are two or three things this congress ought to be looking at that will ensure we are successful in prioritizing that we get back to the moon and mars . What are things we ought to be mindful of . What we have to think about, aboutation, when we talk vision, that is what nasa does for the country. It provides vision. I love when you talked about the turmoil our country was in at the time. Vietnam was raging, we had protests in the streets, we have civil rights abuses, we had civil rights protests. The country was torn apart, and yet there was this moment in time in 1969 when all of the country, in bipartisan fashion, and not only the country but the entire world watched. In fact seen or heard by tens of millions of people behind the iron curtain in russia and cuba at a time when relationships were as bad as they have ever been. So i think what we need to be focused on as a country is here we are 50 years later we think about apollo and the popularity of apollo when we lost three brave astronauts, there were times when apollo was at risk. It was never tremendously popular as a program until we accomplished that stunning achievement. Once we accomplish that stunning achievement, here we are, 50 years after apollo, commemorating that stunning achievement. The question is, what are we doing today that 50 years after we achieve the new stunning achievement that 50 years later people will be commemorating. That is how we inspire. That is how we create the next generation of scientists or engineers. It will have benefits for the economy, for National Security and defense, and for future exploration. So the key thing is to think what is that stunning achievement . I will tell you what i believe it is. I think that is finding life on another world. And in the last year, significant discoveries have been made to indicate life could very well exist on mars. You talk about some of the leadership changes, finding new leadership. Human exploration and Operations Mission directorate. Does this mean a change in nasas direction or longterm vision . Not one bit. There are incredible initiatives within nasa, mission directories. While the changes in leadership mean that these strategies are being reevaluated . Not at all. I talked about the challenge of the timeframe. How do we overcome the findings of that report . I think there are technologies that can be developed that accelerate the. The path. There are new approaches that i dont think are being considered. We have a small team of people looking at this and evaluating a short duration stay on mar using orbital physics i dont think many have considered in the past. If we did that, we could accelerate the timeline. I have said publicly i will not rule out the 2033 timeline. Of course, your friend and colleague in the house has been very keen on the 2033 timeline. I think there is the possibility that can be achieved, but we are looking at what that space would be. And we are going to do our own assessments. Certainly, i think there are ways that could be considered that would increase the timeline. Thank you for giving us something to hope for and drive for. Absolutely. Thank you chairman and Ranking Member for holding this hearing. Welcome back to our witness administrator. Yesterday was the actual 50th of the apollo launch. A historic event in American History and a monumental moment for Space Exploration. Last week, as the Ranking Member of the aviation and space subcommittee, i was proud to present with senator cruz at a hearing discussing human Space Exploration in the past and the future. As we look to the future of Space Exploration, we must first address space industry issues we face on earth. So let me start by asking you about the workforce capacity of nasa and its commercial partners. From the time nasa decided to end the Shuttle Program until today, nasas prime contractor has declined by over 60 . At the same time, more than 21 of nasas Civil Service workforce is currently eligible for retirement and more than half are over 50 years old. If we are to return to the moon, these are some of the challenges we must address. Found that nasas Leadership Team tasked with determining relations with a high likelihood of success have regularly failed to determine if the workforce was able to meet the needs of the mission or agency. After serving as administrator for over one year, what efforts have you taken to ensure the workforce nasa and its commercial partners are able to sustain longterm American Space leadership, and how can our Committee Support nasa in missions to the moon, mars, and beyond . Nasa has a number of programs that we use to inspire young folks to enter into the stem field. That is really where the key is. If you go back to the apollo era, most of the nasa workforce was jack schmidt, who is an astronaut and geologist, he was one of the 12 moon walkers. He said the workforce was between 25 years old and 35 years old on average at that time. We have a wave of retirements coming for your coming. You mentioned half of our workforce is above 50 years old. Then wea tremendous have to put on the table. There are a couple of things that are important. That is getting people inspired early. And one program weve talked about that i support that has direct implications for nasas workforce is first robotics. Are veryng folks that diverse in high school are engaged in these robotic competitions. They are absolutely that it is absolutely mindboggling that these High School Kids can build these robots to compete at this level. What we find is that there is a direct positive correlation between these kids that participate in these activities and them going into stem fields. If you go out to the jet propulsion laboratory, which is where we build robots for mars, you will talk to folks that were part of first robotics in high school. That kind of capability is tremendously valuable for the workforce that we are going to need 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and not just for nasa, although we see it in real time at nasa. Nasa is a big sponsor of that activity. We provide mentors and 10 Centers Across the United States. We have mentors embedded with these kids that are just doing mindboggling Robotic Development projects. I think first robotics is one of those things. One of the challenges we have to consider is the middlemanagement that becomes upper management. There is a gap in middlemanagement. That is where we will have a gap to fill. We are working now on where we can get that talent. Thinking about, are there midcareer professionals in industries that can help us . But the reality is we need a bench. We are actually good in developing that bench, but there is a gap you have identified. I next want to discuss nasas collaboration with universities. In december of 2018, nasa s osiris spacecraft entered within orbit around an asteroid and water molecules in a never before seen phenomenon where an asteroid ejects particulate matterwithout a cause. It returned a sample, allowing scientists to study a 4. 5 billionyearold asteroid up close. I am glad this mission was proposed and supported by science teams at the university of arizona. Missions like osiris combine innovative ideas with nasas Technical Expertise to make groundbreaking discoveries. Administrator, are there new programs that nasa is implementing to give universities more opportunities to lead the development of space and Science Missions . And what role do you envision these partnerships having as we prepared to go to the moon, mars, and beyond . You have correctly identified nasa has had amazing success with university partnerships, especially with the Science Mission directorate. An Asteroid Return Mission for the same time in human history, i will tell you, whether it is the university of arizona, arizona state, these two universities are leading the world when it comes to University Engagement with nasa and developing these programs and projects. We find when universities do cost andvity, meeting schedule happens. That is not always the case at nasa, but universities have the opportunity to do that. Going to the workforce issue, this directly ties in. When universities engage in these projects, they get students involved. Those students enter the workforce immediately ready to take on projects for nasa. That is how we developed the workforce of the future. We have a number of different programs. Some of themd already, but having principal investigators of the universities propose these projects is a great way to stay on track for the Workforce Development in the future and to get young folks involved in our missions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator scott. Thank you for being here. As you know, Kennedy Space center and nasas efforts are very important to florida and the florida economy. When the Obama Administration shut down manned flight, we lost about 7000 jobs, which impacted our economy, but talent around the space coast which impacted future nasa missions. Through what the private sector that and as a governor, we spent 230 million on the space. Now it is thriving again. A lot of it is because of good decisions made as well as these private companies pouring in an unbelievable amount of money. We all know the importance of what you are doing. How difficult is it to come up with the numbers it takes so that when you come here to ask for resources how do you do it . It is exceptionally difficult. And first of all, what kennedy has done is amazing. Becoming a multiuser spaceport where you have private Sector Companies launching rockets sidebyside with nasa and air force and everybody else, commercial, government, and one other thing, the director down there has done amazing work to grow that industry in florida. But i think one of the areas where the rest of the country could help is modeling the investments that the state of florida made into that space center. That mckinley is enabling nasa to accomplish its mission. So we were grateful for your leadership as governor to keep that going. I want to be on the record with that. There are other states around the country that could do similar things. A couple of points as far as the idea of how do we come up with these kind of schedules, given how complex these missions are, it is very difficult. When we do these things, we are inventing, for the first time, ems toystems to subsyst subsystems. And depending on how those work, we could put those in the sub system. So there is a very difficult process here. We are not massproducing automobiles, for example. We are inventing things for the first time. We are developing things for the first time. Nasa is not a manufacturing organization. We are development organization. And now we do it alongside a lot of commercial Partners Operating out of the Kennedy Space center. So it is often hard. I will tell you where we are not are nott we like good has. If everything goes right, here is the end state. By the way, well put in 50 margins. If any one thing goes wrong, you could eat up that margin just like this, and it has follow on effects. So the risk continues on the schedule, but at the same time, the margin is gone. This puts us in a situation where we need to be more realistic about schedule and costs as we go forward. One of the things i love about the agency is that so many people there have this cando spirit. A lot of people there want to make it happen, they believe they can make it happen, there some of the smartest people in the country. And i believe they can make it happen, but because our missions and our systems are sometimes so complex, any small change that has to be made takes a long time to fix. Hard time with that dumb as has been indicated with that, as has been indicated by the Inspector General reports. That is why we are making changes but it is something we need to get better at. Are there Things Congress can do to create more incentives for the private sector to invest and take more risks . I think that is a wonderful question. I would love to take it for the record. There are a team of people sitting behind me who would love to come up with a list of things states can do to help us. Im sure all of the states want the work done in their state and they want to be proud of the work done in their state. Many would do the same thing florida did if there was an opportunity. I think you are right. Senator moran. Senator maria thank you very much for your presence here today. Thank you for your leadership and vision. I am impressed by you, as i have indicated previously in other hearings. I appreciate what youre doing to take nasa into a different realm and take our country with it. Thank you, sir. You are welcome. First of all, you said something in response to an earlier question that i want to flesh out. That is something i have been looking for for a while as an appropriator in this arena. The fiveyear plan. If i heard you correctly, when i heard you say was that what we have a oneyear 1. 6 billion theest for fy20, administration when they put their request together for fy21, that will include the numbers i have been looking for, what will it cost over the next five years . Despite what you and the senator from florida had to say, i know those numbers are difficult to come by. But for me and others who are interested in this program, we need to know not what it costs this year, but over the life of the project. Did i understand your answer correctly . Yes, sir. There are trades we have to negotiate out. That happens inside the administration with omb and the theonal Space Council chairman of the Space Council is the Vice President. So we need to come up with what these trades are, come to an agreement within the administration. We have to be careful we keep our eyes on what the goal is. Our goal is first woman on the south pole of the moon in 2024. And once those are made, commit it to the baseline and make sure we come up to the hill here and share it with our members of congress and senators. When you say trades, trades within nasas budget . Within the architecture. I will give you an example. Had one at apollo, we human lander, and that was it. Apollo went to the moon without a lander because it wasnt ready. Not years, months. The question is how do we and companies that are not willing to make their own investments . There are a lot of knobs to turn. Some commercial Companies Want to invest as much as 30 , maybe even more, into the project. That helps us if they get selected for the project. If they dont get selected, that does not help us. Private Companies Want to make this investment. Depending on how much these Companies Want to invest changes the number. The other thing is, do we want just one lander . Do we want to have three landers . In my view, which have at least three that are receiving support from commercial industries. As time goes on, down select to two. That mitigates risk. If something goes wrong with one, the others go forward and we can stay on schedule. I did not artfully ask my question. Butartfully answered it, what we are talking about is a fiveyear plan for artemis. I understand we wont have a fiveyear plan for everything nasa is going to do. We need to know how it is envisioned that money will be required into the future. You and the chairman had a conversation in todays hearing that i would highlight. None of this will work, and i need your assistance with the situation, the assistance of your former colleagues in the house if we pursue a more bold plan at nasa, we need a budget agreement that allows us to spend the money. Is. R. , as you indicated, devastating to this cost. This cause. I ask you to rally your friends and colleagues, many things we do care about will simply not occur in the absence of finding some middle ground in regard to those caps. A c. R. Is damaging well beyond nasa and is to be avoided. You and i, tony were at the australian embassy, what International Role is there in artemis in particular . We look at the interNational Space station as an achievement of not just technology, but diplomacy. The United States of america is the lead on it, but we want to take that Coalition Coalition go to the moon and grow it from there. Thats what it is all about. When we go to the moon, we have a diverse Astronaut Corps that includes women. In my view, the coalition is important. There are other countries this is another reason why it is hard to come up with the numbers, because we have to get commitments from other nations. And in some cases, they are willing to put for the a good chunk of their money to help us achieve a sustainable presence on the surface of the moon. Administrator, thanks to the president and Vice President to their leadership in regard to space. Senator sullivan. Thank you mr. Chairman and administrator. Good to see you again. Thanks for your leadership here and your team. I think this is what senator gardner said, very exciting, and there is an opportunity to do a lot more here. Have you read the book american moon shot . I read excerpts. Yes sir, Rice University professor. My alma mater. Did his a good read and i think it shows a lot of historical analogies to what is happening now and what happened back then. Have you seen the movie the martian . Yes. The reason i ask that, i think there is an opportunity when you see hollywood doing movies that are inspiring based inspiring folk. Do what senator sinema was highlighting is get our young men and women, High School Kids throughout this country excited about space and nasa, the way it was during the kennedy moonshot years as laid out in that Douglas Brinkley book. What should we be doing to help you on that mission, which i think is a great opportunity, but i dont think we are taking full advantage of it. How do we inspire americas youth to not only get involved, but to bring us to the next level . They clearly have the ability, but we have to inspire them. I like what you said, you called it kennedys moonshot. It is important to remember that by the time we landed on the moon, president kennedy, he had already been deceased for six years, maybe seven years by the time we landed on the mood. It was his vision. It was his vision and thats the important thing to remember especially for the house and the senate, that this is a project when we talk about going to this is a project a vision has to be laid out but has to be consistent and congress can help. When i was in the house, we passed the nasa transition authorization act of 2017, signed by the president , to keep that purpose. So i really think the purpose is what enables these things to move forward and congress is the agency that can help. But as far as inspiring the next generation, sir, we have to be thinking about the stunning achievements, what are the things a lot of people talked on this committee about 50 years ago, i cant believe it was 50 years ago. Im the first nasa administrator was not alive when the first moonshot occurred. I dont have that memory. Let me ask you about timelines, and vision, and the bold stroke youre talking about. I was reading the bulletin to the nasa employees and if you can help me understand, you talk about the artemis i mission within the lunar vicinity by 2022 and you were talking about 2024 on the landing. And we only have a couple more minutes, but if you could lay out the schedule is it 2022, 2024 being back on the moon . And also help me understand, apollo 11 had the saturn 5 rockets, lunar module and command module orbiting the moon. What is the similarity, whats the difference, how big is the s. L. S. , going to be bigger than saturn 5 rockets . Are we orbitting the moon with command module . Or are we landing directly . Whats the vision . I meanwhats the vision . , and then you have a minute left, lay out the vision for mars. I can do it. Here is what we are doing. Sls rocket, the biggest rocket ever built. It is more powerful than the saturn five as far as the feet high, im not sure. Its taller than the statue of liberty. Its big enough. And then the orion crew capsule at the top of that. We would like to see that go around the moon, uncrewed, in 2021. Thats two years from now. Thats right. When it goes around the moon, we are talking about being able to navigate around the moon, change orbits, test all the systems we need to test with the crew capsule and the European Service module. That includes International Partnership right there. For artemis ii, when we have crew on board, the vicinity of the moon matters. With artemis ii, we are going to launch into earth orbit with all the metabolic systems for human life support and we are going to test all those systems in earth orbit for a period of time. Why . Because we dont want to test them at the moon. Two dangerous with humans. Then we are going to test them , in earth orbit and then take that orion crew capsule and launch it on a free return trajectory. That will be the first time we send humans to the vicinity of the moon, and we are looking at 2022, 2023 for that mission. Then of course, artemis iii. Weing all of these missions, will be aggregating in orbit around the moon what you , identified as command module, we want a reusable command module that is there for 15 years. Artemis iii, we launch to a space station in orbit around the moon, we call it gateway. It is a reusable command module where we will have aggregated a human landing system. Our astronauts can go into the so gateway, get into the landing , system, go to the surface of the moon, and back to the gateway, then back to the crew capsule and back to earth. That is the architecture for the 2024 Lunar Landing. It is eminently achievable. A lot of things have to go right. Of course, we have to get the budget to achieve it. If all of that comes together, which i think it will, we will be having the first woman on the south pole of the moon in 2024. Great, thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. That is very exciting and a. Great vision. It is exciting. Senator blackburn. Thank you you, mr. Chairman. And administrator, good to see you in this position. I have known your passion for nasa, and that is really what you wanted to do. To see your leadership and your vision, we love it. Couple of questions i have dealing with china and great power competition. As you talk about commercialization in artemis, in gateway, what are your contingency plans if what you need is not commercially available or it is not mission ready, or let us say it is already earmarked for defense priorities . What is your contingency plan so that you stay on schedule . When we look at the architecture, we want to build dissimilar redundancy into as much of the architecture as possible. In fact, we talked about landers a little bit earlier, we talked about having multiple human landers that are reusable that , can go back and forth to the moon from the gateway. Why do we want multiple human landers in the Development Process . Because if one of them falls behind her cannot meet the milestones, the others can go forward. That is how we build reusable i should say, dissimilar ori should say, dissimilar redundancy into the architecture so we can keep moving forward even if one falls behind. What we do not want to do is end up in a position where we put all our eggs into one basket and we cannot achieve the milestone. That is what we have done with sls and orion. Those are the only two systems that exist to that are going to be able to get us to the moon. We are on the five yard line. We are going to finish those programs. They are going to take us to the moon. They are going to be the and flagship of our Moon Missions thereafter. That being said, we want to make sure we have multiple dissimilar capabilities that dont get us bogged down on the way. That sounds great. Mr. Chairman, im going to yield back my time. I know we have a vote on the floor that we need to finish. Thank you, mr. Administrator. Yes maam. Thank you, senator blackburn. Senator markey . Massachusetts has played a proud role in the United StatesSpace Program from the leadership of president kennedy to the hundreds of scientists who worked in labs at m. I. T. And other institutions in massachusetts. The massachusetts factories that manufacture gear for the missions, the ingenuity and knowhow of massachusetts was key in changing the impossible to the possible with our scientists and engineers and physicists and designers and manufacturers. As the space race has turned from a sprint into a series of marathons, it becomes more important to make smart and balanced decisions for the longterm health of our Space Program. Administrator you have estimated that it will cost around an additional 20 to 30 billion to bring astronauts back to the surface of the moon. In the trump administrations, fiscal year 2020 budget and men meant nasa asked for the ability , to move funds to its moon landing program. From other parts of the agency. So mr. Administrator, can you commit that nasa will not decimate valuable programs such as those in the science directorate, which study everything from solar winds to the possibility of life on mars in order to fund this mission to the moon . Just so you are aware, senator, i have worked very hard to make sure the additional money needed for artemis did not cannibalize any other parts of nasas budget. I worked hard to achieve that. We achieved that. Where that money came from, that was well above my pay grade, but i can commit to you i continue to work to make sure we do not cannibalize one part of nasa to feed another. I will tell you why. It does not work. We tried this before in the 1990s where we were going to fund the Space Exploration initiative by taking money out of the interNational Space station. That created all kinds of problems. Then in the to thousands, we were going to take it out of the Science Mission directorate. That created partisan problems. In the end, it never works. What we are trying to do is make sure people understand that this achievement will be accomplished so long as there is strong bipartisan support. Thats what we are looking for. Thank you. That would be my goal as well working with the chairman and the other members of the committee. Because it is clear we cannot lift our gaze to the moon while engaging in tunnel vision here. Yes, sir. We have to ensure other science is fully funded. Nasa was appropriated 218 million for lunar science in fiscal year 2019. Mr. Administrator, has nasa been working with the National Academies or broader Academic Community in determining the projects that will be flown on the commercial Lunar Payload Services . I will have to take that for the record. I can tell you that as an agency it has been my direction to , all of follow the guidance of the National Academy of sciences. If there is any concern that we are not doing that, i would love to know it. As far as i am concerned, we ought to be following the guidance of the National Academy of science. It is imperative we stay close to the National Academies and the whole scientific community. It will enhance the likelihood we will be successful. It has been more than 50 years since this country has built some of the technology we need on the moon, including lunar spacesuits. Notably, David Clark Company based in west or built the spacesuits for the Gemini Program and the radio headsets for the apollo missions. We have no spacesuits for deep Space Missions today, and it can take years to get Technology Ready to use, raising questions about how we meet this 2024 target. Mr. Administrator, what is nasas plan for the procurement of spacesuits for the 2024 moon landing. We just had this conversation this morning. It is a challenge. Spacesuits are very complex. And they are not easy to come by. A spacesuit for the space station is very different than a spacesuit for the moon. Youve got lunar dust, youve got different thermal challenges on the moon that you dont have in low earth orbit. So we do need the development of , a new suit. What we are looking at is a spacesuit architecture that is flexible, one that can be used in low earth orbit and at the moon, and as early as 2020, we will be testing parts of a spacesuit on the interNational Space station. And then the goal is ultimately , to test the suits on the interNational Space station. Right now, the plan is 2023. For those suits. If we were to get artemis funded, we could accelerate those to build margin into their schedule. Mr. Chairmanh you from you ad quest , mr. Minister eight or timeline , from nasa on what your plan is to develop these spacesuits. Without some kind of a plan that is in place, i think it would be important for us to see what that is. Because vision without that kind of technology, is a hallucination. We just will not be able to ultimately put it into place. Absolutely. Thank you for your service. Thank you. Senator markey i would , commend to your attention the recent article on the first moon landing, which was published in smithsonian magazine, wherein it was revealed that the designer and inventor of the spacesuit was holding his breath when the two astronauts were bounding, jumping up and down on the moon, for fear that buzz aldrin would, in his exuberance, fall over and hit a jagged rock. Things turned out ok. But that was a moment of anxiety. Thank you. Other members were going to try willome, but i think we filibuster no longer. We thank youe, very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I think you can see that there is great enthusiasm for this topic. We look forward to hearing from you again. The hearing record will remain open for two weeks. Senators are asked to submit questions to the record. Upon receipt the witnesses are , requested to submit written answers to the committee as soon as possible. So we conclude the hearing. Thank you, sir. We now adjourn. Thank you, chairman. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer announcer on this weeks newsmakers program, we spoke with congressman derek kilmer, a representative from Washington State is the new Democratic Coalition chairman. He talked about his legislative priorities. Watch newsmakers sunday at 10 a. M. , and at 6 00 p. M. Eastern here on cspan. Looking at the week ahead in congress on monday, the u. S. Senate resumes work on the nomination of mark esper to be the next defense secretary. A confirmation vote is expected on tuesday. Also tuesday, both on the house approved 9 11 Victim Compensation fund. In the house next week, members will consider a bill to secure Retirement Savings for workers and retirees. Also legislation to address border security, and accountability at the department of homeland security. Watch the house live here on cspan. You can see the senate live on cspan2. And see both on cspan. Org or listen to congressional debate on cspan3 radio app. This week marks the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing. And new cspan poll shows that nearly three quarters of americans watched footage, either live or recorded of the moon landing. T 10 minutes and counting announcer starting tonight at eight eastern, watch the 1969 footage of the apollo 11 mission beginning with flight preparations. In the meantime we have been forming final checks on the tracking and the instrument unit which is used as a guidance beacon during the power phase of flight. Left off, we have a lift off. 32 minutes past the hour. Its one small step fourman, one giant leap for mankind. Announcer then on saturday at 8 00 eastern, the landing and moonwalk. Colombia, this is houston reading loud and clear. ,nnouncer on sunday morning coverage of the apollo 11 returning to earth. An greetings from president richard nixon. I want you to know i think im the luckiest man in the world. I say this not only because i have the honor to be president of the United States. But because i had the privilege of speaking for so many in welcoming you back. To earth. The 1969 newsch coverage of the historic apollo 11 mission on cspan and cspan. Org. Or listen with a free cspan radio app. Robert mueller testifies to congress on wednesday, about possible obstruction of justice by President Trump. In russian interference in the 2016 president ial election. Our live coverage starts it it 30 a. M. Eastern on cspan3, online at cspan. Org, or listen wherever you are with the free cspan radio app. Before the hearing, listen to the complete Mueller Report at cspan. Org on your laptop or mobile device. Type Mueller Report audio in the search box at the top of the page. The audio is courtesy of timberline media. Bilberry is where this, nasa chief historian, to talk about tomorrow. Tomorrow, july 20, 2019 will mark the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 landing. Tell us what this 50th mark means to you. I was 11 years old when it happened. I was plunked down in front of our black and white tv set in massachusetts. I thought i was in the middle of enjoying the greatad