Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 06302019 20240714

Getting your reaction to this meeting, the president s trip to asia, and more. The president will return to washington today. Epublicans 202 7488000 republicans 202 7488001 democrats 202 7488000 and independence call 202 7488002. Lots to talk about with the president returning to washington following the meeting of the g20 in japan. And aover in south korea historic brief visit in north korea. Esident trump tweeting leaving south korea after a wonderful meeting with chairman am jongun. Important statement for alln and great progress. President trump becomes the first sitting president to set trump into north korea. The meeting with kim came four months after the breakdown of a second summit in hanoi. The president argued that the meeting was a success because his relationship with kim jongun deepened. History was made as trump and kim walked up to the demarcation line and shook hands. Kim invited trump to walk into north korea, they stayed for a few minutes then walked into south korea. They say their meeting had significance. The president broadcast and tweet. To meet kim in a a Senior North Korean responding that the offer was interesting. Whether the meeting was really arranged in just a day is open to question. Said the ideap occurred to him on saturday. More details on washingtonpost. Com. We will get your calls and your reaction just ahead. The president responding to reporters in terms of what happened then why. Trump we met at the line. I said would you like me to come across . He said he would be honored. From what i understand this is the first time Something Like this has happened. I asked him if he would like me to come across the line and he said he would be honored. I did not know what he was going to say. It was my honor to do it. We had a good meeting. Did yound extend a meeting for him to come to the u. S. . I did. At some point it will happen. This was a big move based on what everyone is telling me. It was my honor and i said that to him. E had a long chat this was a very positive day and event. It is good for the world. Is great for today south korea, i think it is great for north korea and the world. We started this there were missiles flying over japan. They were not so happy. You would have sirens and a lot of problems. You all remember the case of hawaii. And what waslong happening there. The world was very tense. President and we went through a rough dialogue for a while and we have covered it very well. A rough dialogue then we came together. Host the president and president moon in a brief meeting with reporters. Here is the handshake, lets watch. [inaudible] host President Trump with chairman chen chairman kim jongun of north korea. We want your reaction to all of this. Our phone lines are open and on we have actual piece in the koreas. Maybe we can minimize our presence in korea in the future. It took a great deal of courage to cross the border into korea. Larry is joining us from maryland on the republican line. Guest good morning. I think this was probably done in advance but it is the president s style to surprise. This is the first u. S. President to cross into north korea. This is a thirdgeneration dictator. North korea is a proxy for china. He is working the diplomacy but kim jongun is crafty. Is diplomacy is a good thing to try. Host kentucky on the line for independents. As you watch this video what do you think . Maybe i just want to say President Trump is watching this as he is on air force one, how am and how proud i assume the country is of him. If you consider the likes of the Ivy League Oxford educated bill clinton and Madeleine Albright failed here with north korea. George bush, Donald Rumsfeld and colin powell failed with north korea. Betweenre no dialogues the states and to north korea. Power obama and samantha and his highly educated crew and here youiled have donald trump doing things his way like it or not. He is pursuing peas, doggedly pursuing peace. This seventhng on that makes me so proud. It feels strange to say i never thought i would be so proud of him. This is going somewhere. This is not just vain publicity for him and mr. Kim jongun. Trump is the fifth u. S. President to visit the dmz and the first to cross into the north. Andrea on the democrats line from california. Caller good morning. Host your reaction . Caller my reaction is i would like to ask america, are you sick of this man humiliating us . Denigrating us . That is what i would like to know from america. I am wondering when we are going to start voting our interest. This man has done nothing for the United States. Insulin prices have skyrocketed. Look at the farmers, what he has done to them. He has humiliated them. We have a homeless crisis that is unbelievable. Dana is in los angeles, good morning. That lady from california, ive lived here my whole life and my dad fought in korea. Californiahere in and i voted for jimmy carter. I have watched every president since then fail there. I just barely missed vietnam. Is the first guy going around trying to make peace in the world. He is very successful at creating businesses and i dont understand why everyone is giving him so much guff. You cant keep hating this guy when he keeps trying to make peace with people. I dont want any bombs dropped on california. I think trump is doing a great job when he does Something Like this. Host back to the reporting from fox news. Trump cam a meeting at dmz facetoface for the First Time Since hanoi. A deal on north korean denuclearization or realistic progress towards denuclearization could help to bring peace to a Korean Peninsula that has technically been at war for 69 years. With anan war ended armistice but no peace treaty was signed. There has been Little Movement towards a diplomatic solution over the dispute surrounding north Korean Nuclear weapons which kim views as an insurance policy against the u. S. Attack to overthrow his dictatorship. Talks between trump and kim in february failed to reach an agreement on denuclearization. Are strong on Photo Opportunities and spectacles and light on substance. President trump should make clear that he is open to different starting points but north korea must begin a multiyour effort to wind down a vast Nuclear Weapons Development Program that has spread across the entire country. Joining us next from tulsa, oklahoma, good morning. Vincent, you are on the air. It was written by the army and it said everything is north koreas. The north Korean Leader speaking through a translator with reaction to the meeting that lasted about 50 minutes. Speaking through a translator he is just walked across the demarcation line. The first u. S. President to visit us. Looking at this this is an expression of his all theess to eliminate unfortunate nets and open a new future. Jongunat is kim through a translator. We are getting your reaction to the north korean handshake and bilateral session. Brenda is next from houston, texas on the democrats line. Caller good morning and thanks for taking my call. I am not impressed one bit. As the previous caller said he has done absolutely nothing. Kim is such a show and is setting him up for a big deal. He keeps having him run over like a puppy and he does not make any deals with them. Because he is so desperate to get something done to outdo obama. What is this lie he said while speaking in japan about obama . I am so sick of him bringing up he could not be the man obama is if he died and orchestrated his reincarnation. It is not in him, he does not have it. He is nothing but putins puppet. That is all he is very good i hate his guts that is all he is. I hate his guts. It mustobert says have been a nightmare for secret service. The president is on air force one after departing south korea this morning. Ateeting that took place 3 45 along the dmz. Thent to share footage from director of social media for the president. You can see what the flight was seoul to the dmz. Isaac joins us from ohio. Caller thank you for taking my call. I have made it clear to my family and friends, i have been republican all my life and i switched when donald trump became president. I could not take the lying and that crook. A longbeen around for time, everyone should know who donald traitor trump is. That lady, the democrat who just spoke, i could not have said it better. He is just looking for a way to outdo somebody. He could care less about north korea. He is looking for a nobel peace prize. He is fake or that they can get. He needs to go he is faker then they can get. He needs to go to jail. He is a Money Laundering and he has bank fraud and tax fraud. Host james in connecticut on the republican line. Good morning. Caller good morning and thank you. My comment is this. People have such a short memory in terms of what the situation was with north korea when president obama was elected. During that time the north were dropping missiles over japan. Whether you like it or not President Trump has lowered the risk of conflict or war caused by a mistake. Howople forget that many servicemen or families are in south korea . I think the number is almost 80,000. My son is in the military and he is in italy. Anytime we can lower the temperature of the room in International Relations it is a good thing. It isnt a political thing one way or another. Back in the day roosevelt met with stalin. We meet with fat people in order to achieve longterm goals. I hope that people will not continue to turn this into the idea that he stepped into north sometimes you have to make bold decisions for bold actions to occur. I think it is another great step towards a less nuclear world. More behind the scenes from the director of social adia for the president as pool of reporters from north korea and the u. S. Are following the president. We listen to frank from roanoke, virginia. Caller how are you doing . Mr. Trump is nothing but a fraud , a one of the dictator. He is trying to outdo every and he isin the world trying to outdo obama. You have to look at what he is doing with kim. Kim is not going to give up Nuclear Weapons for nothing. We need to vote him out of there. He was not elected he was selected. Have a blessed day. Host steve on our line for independents in chicago. Caller how are you doing . Kim is using trump. He will not give up his Nuclear Weapons. You protrump people are being duped. He is a con man. Kim is not going to give us Nuclear Weapons. He is using trump to put his face on the map. You protrump people are being dupes and conned. That is all i have to say. Host brad in lafayette, louisiana go ahead. People talk bad about the president the better he is going to do. He is just a salesman. When you put down someone else you are just hurting yourself. That is the only comment i have. From the atlantic council, the u. S. Envoy in north korea. There is a photograph of him pictured on the screen. Some background on the new point person on north korea. He is 50 six years old and a graduate of the university of michigan and former the peak for Governmental Affairs at the ford motor company. He is a veteran of the george w. Bush organization working with Condoleezza Rice and last year he was appointed by mike pompeo to be the u. S. Envoy in north korea. The president making reference to him today when he talks about steps moving forward. The administration saying beverly talks between the u. S. And the north korean delegation and those meetings will commence immediately. A development from the president as he heads back to washington. From wisconsin on our line for democrats, good morning. I have a couple of comments to make about trump and his sideshow. I hope that the Trump Supporters realize what he is doing to this country in this country, the , the Rights Violations clause violations, this is a one of the dictator in a country that has a democracy going over and meeting up with another dictator. There is nothing impressive about that. These Trump Supporters talk about other people hating trump. I think we have a good reason to hate that man. What about when president obama was in office for eight years, they hated him with a passion. They hated him because of the color of his skin. They better take a good look at the one they put in office. Dan in georgetown, massachusetts good morning. Caller thanks for having me on. Good show today. Casts a light on our general population. I find it i am floored. Like comparing these last two president s. You have one president who got a pass for every single thing that happened by the media and another one that is put under the microscope for every little thing he does. We can look at people who were calling and not liking obama. You are say prejudiced because you did not like obama. If you take a look at his , not as and what he did blind rhetoric the media has spread about how obama walked on water but what actually happened under his administration with control of the media and everything else, look at the Justice Department, you are american citizens. You are supposed to see what is happening. More point. The hatred is coming from one side. There is trump arrangement. These trump derangement. Gose people are willing to all in with the press and believe everything they say. That is unamerican, use your brain. Host a headline from the bbc. U. S. North korea, trump and kim agreed to restart talks. The president yesterday tweeting iafter importing meetings will be leaving japan for south area with president moon and chairman kim of north korea if he sees this i would meet him at the border just to shake his hand and say hello. That was yesterday morning. That meeting that did take place today. Up next from diamond, missouri on the republican line. Caller good morning. I think it was a good meeting. Everyly problem i have is morning there are these trump haters that call and they accuse him of this and that and they cant prove anything. The collar before me stole most of my thunder and he is right. They are deranged. There and is out figure most of them are socialists and communists. Improved and so have a lot of other lives. Host from the wall street journal trump and kim resume Nuclear Talks. A team of reporters writing expected to be brief and the handshake and meeting stretching beyond 15 minutes in a closeddoor meeting lasting almost an hour. Underscored the unconventional detente between the u. S. And north korea. That this morning from the wall street journal. Richard is joining us next from nashville, tennessee. Caller thank you for the opportunity to speak. I think its the best thing that has happened since apple pie. Mym old enough to remember fathers and other countrymen that fought the battle of the savedat normandy and europe from being a communist country. The russianss on and how thats that is how we got the east and west berlin wall. Before normandy we had to go to japan to fight the japanese. War,u remember the korean all i have to say to all the liberals out there, when they come knocking on your door you better be able to protect somebody isause going to and that will be unamerican weather left or right. You better resume talks with the rest of the world and carry big sticks like roosevelt. Russia is not a friend, china is not a friend. When they were when we were little they told us if the red chinese marched on us it was over. When war breaks out, the next war you better be prepared to fight. Us getong and weak among ready, it is coming. Host if you are listening on cspan radio, this program is carried on sundays. We are talking about the historic meeting that took place early this morning. President in south korea flying to the dmz. Holding a meeting with kim jongun that lasted nearly an hour. Negotiations are officially restarting. The president appointing a delegation that includes mike pompeo and his back. Meeting with counterparts in north korea. An eventful trip to asia. Telling reporters that sanctions will remain in place with north korea. Trump this is my honor. I did not expect it. We were in japan for the g20 so i came over. Stepping across that line was a great honor. A lot of progress has been made. This has been a great friendship. That was very quick notice and i want to thank you. Host your reaction to all of this . From connecticut, tom on the republican line. It was one of the best days of my life. I served in the republic of south korea with the United States army. I was with the military intelligence in a tiny fishing aboutn the sea of japan 25 miles or more kilometers south of the dmz. I went up to guidepost 328 for three days with republic of korea and south korean counterparts. Did but i say what i held a top secret crypto clearance. Trump has performed nobel prize work this week that the naysayers say. I am patriotic and that just credit to his. Fforts julywill be my fourth of celebration on tuesday. We will have live coverage of the president s remarks on the fourth of july at 6 30 eastern time. The president on the mall, live coverage on cspan and cspan radio. You can follow our schedule on our website. This is the tweet from the president. Korea after a wonderful meeting with kim jongun. An important statement for all and a great honor. A headline from the New York Times trump steps into north korea and agrees with kim jongun to resume talks. President trump stepping across a low concrete marker at 3 46 p. M. Local time to walk 20 steps to the base of a building on the north korean side for an encounter carried live on international television. An unprecedented demonstration of friendship. After a minute on the officially hostile territory President Trump as did mr. Kim back into south korea where they addressed journalists before slipping inside a building for a private conversation. He woulddent said invite mr. Kim to visit the white house. Paul is joining us from ohio, good morning. Caller i have been republican most of my life and i just dont understand these callers. This guy is a president. They have a liar as their leader. This man got on tv and said he likes to throw women up against the wall and grabbed their them toand forced sexually excite him. You hear these people saying they are such patriots. Dude who is a lying, Money Laundering bank fraud. The proof is there you just cant indict a sitting president. It is remarkable how these guys, i am republican, i have been republican my whole life. Until trumped up the stage. Trump took the stage. These people say how proud they are of the liar. Not over there doing anything because it is right. He is doing something to get a picture. I assure you that a criminal lying thug is not a patriot. Period, host this is from the new Zealand Herald hell on earth, the horrors of north korean torture camps. This is more on auto warm beer, a uva student who came back to the u. S. From north korea and later died. Studentctors said the suffered extensive loss of brain tissue in all regions of his brain consistent with oxygen deprivation for a prolonged period. The north korean regime is believed to have as many as 120,000 Political Prisoners in harsh labor camps. In a 2014 report the United Nations Human Rights Commission calling north korea a state with no parallel in the contemporary their systemic, widespread and gross human Rights Violations. The new Zealand Herald writes violations. Guards are given the authority to abuse and kill prisoners. The brutality of the regime deathsible for warmbiers remains clear. Joining us from the independent line good morning. Caller just a followup on what our president did, it was bad legitimacy to one of the most murderous dictators on the onnet who practices genocide hundreds of thousands. The death camps were people are raped beaten and murdered are basically an industrial level in north korea. When i saw my president adding legitimacy to one of the most murderous people on the planet i thought of mbs and the death of the journalist. I love both Political Parties and i invite everyone to leave both of your Political Parties and become an american again. Choose candidates based on the content of their character. One thing that terrifies me more than anything is the acceptance of so many people. We now have different criteria been judging other people. We no longer judge people by the content of their character. There is another criteria. It terrifies me. Thank you so much for what you do. Think about the lack of information we would have without cspan keeping tabs on all the levels of government and washington journal for being one where peopleaces can speak to everyone in the free world. For what you guys do i will always be grateful. I want to wish you a good sunday. Host thank you. Thank you for phoning in. A headline from the washington u. S. And china agreeing to new trade talks after meeting with president xi. Acrimonious month for trump and xi closes with concessions. A deal with tariffs and while i and other issues. Jenny is joining us from ohio. A lot to talk about on this sunday. Caller i will say that our president neat that is pretty he risked his life to go over there. Dont know if people know this but north korea has launched missiles at us and we have interceptors. When they had the north korean was a man fromt russia and we had american and they divided up the land and it was only supposed to be temporary and look what it turned into. These countries all take turns being friends. That is all it is. I will think anyone has to worry about anything unless we get from one im not from one of these countries. Get unless we has not showed anything different than obama or anything else. If you want to know what the president s have promised open up the world almanac. Understand why the world bank joined the Asian Infrastructure investment bank. If somebody knows please explain that. Host thank you for the call. Im new book titled confirmation bias inside the washingtons war for the Supreme Court. He will join us at the top of the hour. Later in the program we look back 50 years ago at the Cuyahoga River, what happened when it caught fire and its effect. We are taking your calls, the meeting that took place while most of us left this morning. The president is in south korea stepping into north korea briefly and beating with chairman kim jongun. Texas,na from houston, democrat good morning. Caller thank you for accepting my call. There was a man that called i tell youid , stalin made a fool out of roosevelt. Host i am sorry. Stalin got the allies to theyt normandy wanted to make a landing on the west side of italy. That way they could cut off stalin from doing what he wanted to do and roosevelt would have given it to stalin. Theher thing is that areblicans and democrats making a dictatorship. They are destroying our democracy. In fort go next to len myers, florida. Caller i am a veteran and i live in the great state of florida. I am independent. What President Trump did yesterday to break the mold and take the risk of stepping into north korea. It wasnt long ago, maybe two years ago when the president first got into office. He was calling chairman kim rocket man. Apparently he is learned from his mistakes. You have to have a dialogue and feel comfortable with chairman kim if you are going to get anywhere on these denuclearization talks. Trump becomes the first sitting president to set foot into north korea. Came four months after the breakdown of the summit in hanoi. Meetingident argued the was a success because their relationship only deepened. Thep and kim walked up to demarcation line dividing the two koreas and shook hands. Kim invited trump to cross into north korea. They stayed a few minutes then both crossed back into south korea. Kim said the meeting had a lot of significance. Broadcast on offer in a tweet from japan. A Senior North Korean official responding saying the offer was interesting. Was really meeting arranged in 24 hours remains a question. The men exchanged letters earlier this month but trump said the idea occurred to him on saturday. The president with these comments on the historic meeting. Had a good we meeting with chairman kam and we each agreed to designated team and they will try to work out some details, speed is not the object. We want to see if we can do a good comprehensive deal. Nobody knows how things will turn out but this is a great day, a very historic day, quick notice, nobody saw this coming. Towas great he was able react so quickly and we were all able to react so quickly. In speaking with president moon often times he was saying this is historic, just meeting is historic and i think there is something to that. It will be more historic of something comes out of it. A lot has already,. You see what is going on and you see what is happening and the level of the relationship as opposed to what it was when i went into office. It was a fiery mess, bad things were going on. The end of the last administration was nothing but trouble. You saw what was happening. You dont report it accurately but someday history will record it accurately. For 2. 5 years we have had peace. With nothing signed. Based on relationships. President moon was saying strongly that he never would have believed that a thing could go on like this so friendly. The United States will have a team, the secretary of state good luck, steve. Steve will headed up head it up under mike pompeo. Over the next two and a half or three weeks the team will start working to see whether or not they can do something. Prettyg stuff, complicated but not as complicated as people think. A lot of our great drugs have been based on relationships 2. 5 or three years ago it was dangerous out there. You could not move and people were being killed. A lot of bad things were happening. Singapore it has been a whole different ballgame. That telling chairman kim to me hanoi was a great success. The press reported the opposite. You sometimes need things like that to happen. Great success because we maintained our relationship. We will have teams meet and we will start a process and see what happens. That was the president joined by president moon of south korea. He mentioned steve deacon who will be the point person who will be leading u. S. Negotiations with his counterpart in north korea. Those negotiations beginning in the next few weeks. Bonnie is joining us from ohio on the democrats line. Caller good morning, thank you for your show and the opportunity to call in. What i want to say is as a democrat i will look at this as a positive. I think it is a photo opportunity but anything positive this president does is great. It will not change my vote. There are other things to consider regarding this president and i will still be voting democrat and that is all i have to say. Host thank you. National security advisor to president obama tweeting the following trump is lying. I was there for all eight years and obama never sought a meeting with kim jongun. Foreign policy is not Reality Television it is reality. Hat is from a former obama foreignpolicy adviser. This is craig from oklahoma on the republican line. Caller good morning. I appreciate cspan. I want to point out some contradictions. They try to demonize mr. Trump for his former life being a businessman. Is the founding whoers wanted president s were of the earth and of the common man because they had skin in the game. They had something to lose if america lost. Trump has a lot to lose. Capitalism tempered with our founding documents make us the greatest country in the world. He can go over and talk with communist dictators because when you put the two systems against each other our system always wins. Spreading prosperity for re is a major the human rights crisis in north korea. When they open up and accept more of our system we will also be helping the people of north korea. To me this was a positive mission to help liberate people. I think trump is doing a great job. I dont think we need to demonize him, we need to see him for what he is. He is the right man for this time. Host thank you for the call. This tweet from our colleagues at American History tv starting at 9 00 eastern time. We will look at the burning of the Cuyahoga River, the 50th anniversary and its impact is coming up. For our Radio Audience we will let you listen to the cameras. For those on television here is how the historic meeting with the president s that are unfolded earlier today. Lets watch. It is good to see you again. I never expected to meet you at this place. Host cameras in the foreground i and the background at this meeting of President Trump and north Korean Leader kim jongun. The first took place in singapore and the second in hanoi. There is speculation there could be another summit. Negotiations between the u. S. And north korea under way with the team put in place by mike pompeo. Kevin is on the phone from indiana. What do you think . Caller good morning. I think they need to look at obamas record. I think people like our president because he tries. Administration apologize to everyone for us being free and the democracy. That lady had said she was still vote democrat would vote for apparently anything that would not be good for america;. Host oneill joining us from florida on the democrats line. Good morning. Caller good morning america. I would like to say President Trump, what he did in the meeting with north korea, i dont like everything that he does but i am not against trying something different. For all the republicans calling in complaining about the news media and about democrats only following the news media, if you listen to the words and watch foxnews sometimes you will see that most thing they say are coming from the news media. Americans, you used to believe certain things until President Trump said it is not good anymore and all of a sudden you dont believe anymore. You stood for things until he said you dont need that and you dont believe anymore. Now we are not the good guys, we are the bad guys it seems like. Like canada, we dont like indolent or london. We like all the dictators in the world. Wake up. Host we have a few more minutes so we will go to david in South Carolina. Caller good morning. One caller mentioned capitalism. All the viewers that capitalism or any other mentionedystem is not in the constitution or declaration of independence. It is an Economic System not one for governance. In ourerything we do country we use a little bit of everything. Nothing is pure. Tribalism is getting to the point where we are not acting like anything but the parents who have fistfights at the kids Little League games. It is getting embarrassing. Host how do we end it . We can try to be honest with ourselves and look at history as a whole. Not just at snippets of it. The media loves for viewer attendance. They are going to be provocative. Pay attention to what is being said and then do a little reading on some of this stuff and talk to people with , it isand experience easy to get overly emotional about all of this. The end of the day politicians are temporary occupants. The permanence is what we believe to our kids. Host the headline from the New York Post the president crossing the dmz to meet with kim jongun in north korea. Through a translator the north korean president with these comments. The president has walked across the demarcation line making him the first president to visit our country. I believe that looking at this action is an expression of his willingness to eliminate hostility and open a new future. Host this from the bbc website trump and kim agreed to restart historic talks. From connecticut, gary, good morning. To say thatnt watching President Trump cross into north korea and his dealings with kim jongun reminds me of never of chamberlains dealings with adolf hitler which led to his legitimacy and world war two, thank you. Joining us from athens, georgia, good morning. Caller good morning, how much do i love cspan . One quick question. Retire . N lamb host he did not retire. He is ending his program queue beingy but instead of here seven days a week he is here five days a week. He is a strong presence in guiding this network on so many levels. He is healthy and doing great and here all the time. Caller i hope he is. Keep up the great work. Im glad to be an american and im glad to be here. We are so blessed. My first point to the collars. Callers. We have to go outside of me, me me. We have local people who only talk about each other, we have National Level people then we have global level people who have ideas and are trying to transform the world. The media and the Democratic Party are making donald trump into one of the best president s, because of the microscope he is under he cannot do anything that is wrong so he is doing everything to benefit the American People. This goes out to the president. Mr. President if you find out about this comment and you are sending emails and you want me to donate i will not donate until you appear on the savage nation and speak to michael savage. Host a regular viewer from athens, georgia. A historic photograph of chairman kim and President Trump. The new yorke of times has Kamala Harris in South Carolina. A recording of alexandra liberals ruled the debate and moderates are anxious. Negotiations restarting between the president and the president of china. Reggie in chattanooga, tennessee good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. I would like to say that i was flipping through the channels and i stopped on your station and listen to the voices of all the people, the anger and frustration. I would like to give them something to think about. I will come from the bible. At one time on the face of the earth everyone had one language and one speech. Says from one blood the nations of this earth were created. Yet we have this division. When noahd the bible came out of the ark he had three sons and from there we all come from the same bloodline, we are all distant relatives. This is in the bible. Word diablosp the the definition is a divider of people. He does this by putting himself or something in between the people. It isn the United States the politics or the color of a persons skin. Onneed to not be so focused the outside but do on internal check. It is really sad that we are so divided and we are supposed to be the greatest nation. I am a veteran and i do not agree with everything the president says or does. Name a president who ever had it right 100 of the time. Some soulsearching within ourselves. We have a sinful nature. There is not a person that is not touched by it. You selfcentered, selfish, and spiritually incapable of serving the god we are supposed to serve. The New York Times has a story about Kamala Harris, reporting by Alexander Burns about negotiations restarting between the u. S. And china. From the will street journal trump and kim agreed to resume Nuclear Talks in a meeting that was only supposed to be a couple of minutes lasting nearly an hour. That from the wall street journal. On the independent line, good morning. We will try one more time for sandy or move on. Hi, turn the volume down. I heard the Youngstown Vindicator will be shutting down. Host i dont buy it. As trump going to north korea, i have no problem with him shaking hands. However, kim is never going to give up his nukes. Trump i think knows who he is with. G he knows who he is dealing with. He knows the guy is killing people. He is not stupid like everyone think. O you have everyone else putting in different comments about tribes and all this. Have the tribes are the democrats with black lives matter, beating people up because they are trump porters, and the democrats we are a constitutional representative republic. Not a democracy, a republic. Every single democrat candidate wants socialism or communism. It is the communists in the United Nations pushing the immigrants to this country to overthrow this government because they want a world world government a one world government. Host from the new zealand theld, hell on earth, horrors of north korean torture camps, reporting there may be as many as 120,000 political a brutal,following and that remains clear for those in this authoritarian regime. Come back, we will turn our attention to the u. S. Supreme court. A new book by author carl hulse called confirmation bias. We will look at the confirmation of justices cavanaugh, the death justicece scalia, and gorsuch. And we will talk about the 50th anniversary of that river fire and how that led to the creation of the epa. First, a conservative legal Adversary Group was asked about recent scotus cases and chief justice john roberts. Heres a preview. A wonderful opportunity for say thatc justice assist we are the justices to say that we are asked to be doing something that isnt in the constitution. It is not political. That was absolutely right. Justicerity, the chief and the four conservatives. The senses case, unfortunately we saw the court going the other way. The chief justice leading that. He seems to want to be chief Justice Marshall and give a little to each person and told us out. Unfortunately, that is not the role of the judge. It does show a political nature to some of those decisions. Not every decision this term, but it was disappointing to see in this case. He clearly left the door open for the president and the administration to put a Citizenship Question on the census. It is a question that has been on the senses for most of our nations history and continues to be asked and spotcheck surveys, but not in the entire census. It would be shocking to say it is not constitutional. Hetice thomas dissent said went outside the role of what a judge was supposed to be doing in reviewing this saying lets try to delve into the subjective goals. That is not with the judicial Legal Standard is looking at policies like that were such broad discretion is given. That was a real concern to me. Overall, it was a very successful term for conservatives in particular. Rate decisions on religious liberty, separation of powers. I was very encouraged. Our guest on newsmakers that follows the washington journal at 10 00 eastern. Any time on the free cspan radio app or online at cspan. Org. We want to welcome back carl hulse, the author of the book confirmation bias inside washingtons war over the Supreme Court, from scalias death to justice kavanaugh. Good sunday morning. Thank you for being with us. On the sundaynews morning. The president traveling to south korea crossing into north korea briefly, meeting for nearly an hour with chairman kim jongun. Guest that was a big moment for the president. The symbolism is what they were seeking. This is something that has been in the works for this trip. It may look impromptu, but it is not impromptu. It was a big step. The president really wanted this. Hes got problems in iran, and he needs to make sure his other problems are under control. It looks like they are going to talks. The i guess it is a small version of nixon goes to china. Host peter baker is writing this morning, President Trump stepping across a low concrete market 3 40 six local time and walked 20 steps to the base of a building on the north korean side for an encounter on television, and unprecedented camerafriendly demonstration of friendship intended to revive talks. President trump escorted by chairman kim back over to the line to south korea. The two briefly addressed journalists before slipping inside of a building known as Freedom House for a private conversation. The president said he would invite mr. Kim to visit him at the white house. The president did not bring up a denuclearize north korea. He did talk about a new round of negotiations at the ministerial level. Thet he is minimizing rocket tests they had earlier this year. Saying those really werent much. You can see he is really determined to get this going. This was the president seeing this as a potential big Foreign Policy cu. He thinks he has a relationship. Far as they knew everyone they had negotiated with previously was still alive because there had been earlier reports that one of the negotiators was punished. Big movement here. A success for his trip. He had some other rough patches during this trip. I think this is a big moment for the president. Host the other major story, talks to restart as trump and president xi jinping of china pause the tariff war in a News Conference in osaka, japan. [video clip] tosident with respect china, we agree today we would continue the negotiation, which i ended a while back. We will continue the negotiation. We agreed i would not be putting tariffs on the 325 billion that i would have the ability to put on if i wanted. Advanced,rly depending on where you want to look at and where you want to start. Pretty advanced. We did discuss numerous other things. We mentioned huawei. I said we would have to say that until the very end. One thing i will allow, a lot of people are surprised, we send and sell to huawei a tremendous amount of product that goes into the various things they make. I said that that is ok. These are American Companies that make product that is very complex, by the way. Highly scientific. In some cases we are the ones that do it, the only ones that can do it, the only ones with the technology. What we have done in Silicon Valley is incredible, actually. No one has been able to compete with it. I have, pretty easily, i have agreed to allow them to continue to sell that product. So American Companies will continue. The companies were not happy they could not sell, because they had nothing to do with what was potentially happening with respect to huawei. Host what happens next between the u. S. And china . The talks continue. You will see the hill react to ei part of this. The Senate Intelligence committee continues the phone company a security threat. That is one thing that congress will be talking about. Is he making a National Security mistake trying to get these talks going . Host clearly the devil will be in the details. Guest it always is. Theres a lot at stake for the president going into the election. The farmers are having a tough time in the u. S. With rain. Theyre having a hard time planting. The uncertainty surrounding exports. This is a key constituency for the president. He knows he needs to get this right, and get it right pretty fast. Host carl hulse is Available Online at nytimes. Com. Your new book confirmation bias inside washingtons war over the Supreme Court, from scalias death to justice kavanaugh. You write the following, the Court Opening has given conservative christian voters and skeptical republicans a reason to back trump despite his welldocumented character flaws in their own doubts about him. To the white house and inexperienced and unpredictable man. Now his presidency was about to become a reality in the Supreme Court would be among the first institutions to yield the impact. Guest the impact of the republican blockade of Merrick Garland had is not understood by a lot of people. This is a crucial element of his reelection campaign. No one foresaw it. Mitch mcconnell probably wasnt thinking about it the night that Justice Scalia died that this would be a benefit to President Trump, but it was. Republicans, conservatives, evangelicals, they consider the future of the Supreme Court much more seriously in their making election decisions than democrats in the past. , roy blunt,cancy the Missouri Republican in my book said, that vacant seat was golden. It really drove people towards trump. He knew it. There is a part of the book night i think it is the Hillary Clinton is accepting the nomination in philadelphia and trump is appearing in iowa. He says if you love me, thats great, vote for me. If you dont like me, you still have to vote for me, judges, judges, judges. It was a big factor in the election. Host Justice Scalia died suddenly. It was not expected, he was not in poor health. This is what leader Mitch Mcconnell issued in a statement a few hours after his death was announced. Today our country lost an unwavering champion of a timeless document that unites each of us as americans. The American People should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president. The president at the time was barack obama. [video clip] president obama tonight we join his fellow justices in morning ngis remarkable man mourni this remarkable man will stop obviously, today is a day to remember Justice Scalias legacy. I plan to fulfill my Constitutional Responsibilities to nominate a successor in due time. They will be plenty of time for me to do so and for the senate to fulfill this responsibility to give that person a fair hearing and a timely vote. These are responsibilities i take seriously, as should everyone. They are bigger than any one party. They are about our democracy. They are about the institution to which Justice Scalia dedicated his professional life in that it continues to function as the beacon of justice that our founders envisioned. In the bookite that they were scrambling to get a jacket for him because he was playing golf . Under scullys death was Justice Scalias death was unexpected. They were scrambling to get a jacket. You should just issue a formal statement or do it on camera. They decided to do both. Part of the reason was because the new cycle is heating up so much on this because of senator mcconnells decision. Theres a lot going on, and was going on very quickly. Host normally if someone passes away you pay tribute to that person that day and deal with the politics a couple of days later. Why did Mitch Mcconnell issue the statement so quickly, and what prompted him to do that . Guest we are used to these events and we talk about the politics amongst ourselves, but the public appearances lets remember the man first. Mitch mcconnell statement around 6 00 p. M. , i was taken aback by how quickly he moved to the politics. There was a reason for it. There is reason the president got out so fast, too. That night in South Carolina there was a republican primary debate. A few people have dropped had dropped out, but there was still quite the republican lineup. Mitch mcconnell talking to his aides, including a very astute political operator who was one of mcconnells top advisers, said if you are going to keep this seat open, which you are planning to do, you need to do it quickly. There is a debate tonight. Ted cruz, former Supreme Court clerk, a guy with a lot of knowledge about the court. If he says we need to hold the seat open, there could be a backlash because ted cruzs colleagues are not that fond of him and they dont want to be seen doing ted cruzs bidding. That is why that statement came out so fast. Host how open was mcconnells staff to you . Guest senator mcconnell was the first person i interviewed for this book because i knew i needed to have his story before i could go far. Other people were fairly cooperative. Senator mcconnell, and we have had several discussions over the years about the Merrick Garland situation. We had one extended interview of him laying out his activities that day. The senator himself is very open. Host he was in kentucky, asked if there was another vacancy in 2020. Said, we his water and are going to fill it. He has been inching towards that. At the time he made the emphasis of we have to wait for the president ial election, let the people decide. He had been inching to this. They change their story little where they are saying the difference then was it was a democrat in the white house and a Republican Senate. They have to go back to the 1800s to find where you would fill a seat like that. At the time no one was understanding over the party divide. I talked to Lindsey Graham who is now the chairman of the judiciary committee. You are chairman, will you fill a vacancy next year if one occurs. He said, i need to talk to Mitch Mcconnell about that. I said, he has made his choice clear. Lindsey graham said, i will have to think about it. I hope we dont have to deal with that. To avoid theing issue altogether. They may. Unless there is a life ending event for another justice. Life ending, that is in an interesting way to put it. Host i dont want to put too many hypotheticals on the table, but lets assume donald trump is reelected and the republicans keep control of the senate. Lets assume a 2020 the end of his second term with Mitch Mcconnell lets assume in 2024 at the end of his second term with Mitch Mcconnell still guest he would totally fill it. Mitch mcconnell is about winning and getting his way. He would do what he needed to do to do that. If the court, if there were four more years of president transit administration, it is almost hard to imagine there wouldnt be some sort of vacancies. That was the interesting thing about the debates. How much Mitch Mcconnell became the villain in the debates, especially the first debate. I think it is dawning on folks that the white house is one thing. If Mitch Mcconnell remains majority leader he will have his way. He has shown what he can do to democratic president s. Host the book is called confirmation bias. Is the line for republicans. 202 7488000 if you are a democrat. You can send as a tweet cspanwj. ,e have a lien for independents 202 7488002. Has it become hopelessly partisan . How do you answer that . Guest the partisanship is very pronounced now. You saw in the decisions in the last couple of days. The gerrymandering decision was 54, straight republican nominated judges versus democraticnominated judges. Chief Justice Roberts is very aware of the political winds swirling around the court. He takes steps to ease the partisanship. The census question was kicked back to the lower courts with Justice Roberts joining with the four democratic nominated justices. If they would have done the gerrymandering case and the to the advantage of the republicans, democrats would have been outraged, but theres not much they could do about it. In the past there was always a republican nominated judge, kennedy or suter, who would side with liberals or a more conservative liberal who would side with the republican nominated judge. Right now you have a pretty much strict fivefor republicans versus democrats. I think it makes that public think that the court is pretty much just another arm of americas political system. Host why Justice Gorsuch first and Justice Cavanaugh second . Hest Justice Gorsuch, emerged during the consideration my book goes into the list and how trump settled on these justices as a person who writes powerfully about tearing conservatives call tearing down the administrative state. Inducing the power of the bureaucracy. You saw some decisions inch up to that. They still need another vote. He was, at least from outside washington, too. Don mcgahn looked favorably on him. Another thing that happened durin on the night of Justice Scalias death is don mcgahn got on the phone with child and said be careful at the debate, dont politicize got on the phone with trump and said be careful at the debate. Dont politicize this too much. Was a little too washington at that time for the president to talk about. It would have been a tough sell as the first pick for the president. He is a washington guy in the bush die. He came out of the bush white house. Worked on the ken start investigation. Even President Trump saw it was a little too closely aligned to the bushes. It was. His mother was the epa administrator for ronald reagan. Got involved in some scandals and had to leave. I think that stuck with Justice Gorsuch and his view of the washington system and bureaucracy. Host one point from the book june want to get to calls, 27, 2018 Justice Anthony kennedys retirement was announced by the court in the trump administration. He had already been at the white house. The visit was kept secret. Get the opportunity to fill a second Supreme Court vacancy in less than two years in office. Guest that was quite a day. We were thinking, what is going to happen . We thought Justice Kennedy was going to stay. It turns out he had already made clear to don mcgahn, not the , but don mcgahn, the white house counsel, that he was quitting. Don mcgahn set in motion this cloak and dagger motion to get Justice Kennedy into the white house to tell President Trump he was leaving. Host cloak and dagger how . Guest Justice Kennedy did not want to call don himself because they were worried about leaks. He had a highranking former clerk of his who is a highranking official at the Justice Department at that time she met him for lunch at a smithsonian restaurant, told him about his plans, and said make this clear to don mcgahn. That person called mcgahn. On the day of the retirement don mcgahn gets a car the white house and secretly picks up Justice Kennedy. Only then did he tell people at the white house that the opening was imminent. Host austin, texas. Thank you for waiting. Caller i wanted to ask if mitch is he stacking all of the courts with farright judges . I heard that is all they are doing in the senate, and i cant verify that. Host thank you, judith. Guest he is definitely stocking the court. It is in the eye of the beholder judge. A far right this is part of the strategy that has been enacted since donald trump took office. President trump, you will hear him talk, barack obama, what a gift he left me. 100 vacancies. Why did he do this . 100 judicial vacancies. The reason is because republicans had blocked obama and the democrats from filling the vacancies. Theas not only benefited Supreme Court level, but he has gotten over 125 onto the appeals and district courts. These people will be shaping policy forever. They are very conservative, more conservative than the bush appointees they are replacing in some cases. The Supreme Court may get all of the visibility and discussion, but what is going on at the lower courts is big. Not a lothere is no going on legislatively in the senate, Mitch Mcconnell is devoting a lot of time to appointing judges. They enforced a rule change a couple of month ago that lets them do it faster. You are seeing a steady Assembly Line of conservative judges, and democrats cant do one thing about it. Writefact yearbook, you the courts were not an extension not an extension of the arena politics that had engulfed the other branches. Decadess over three that culminated in an incendiary threeover Supreme Court nominations into two years, tearing the senate apart. Guest everyone has their judges in the senate over what happened with judges and Supreme Court nominees over the years. Clarence thomas who was confirmed. The democrats filibuster Appeals Court judges. Harry reid changes the rules. Mitch mcconnell changes more rules. This has led to a real break down, and it threatens the confidence of the public and the court if they see it as a strictly partisan branch of government. Host you have been with the New York Times for how many years . Guest i started as a regional reporter in 1986. This is my 35th year in washington. Next scholar from louisiana. James comer republican line. Caller this is probably the happiest segment of washington journal i have ever heard. Merrick garlands shutdown was Mitch Mcconnells greatest moment. When he allowed the next to go upright before the election will be his second greatest moment. Your guest is right. They will be an unbelievable amount of republican conservative justices appointed at the court. With the unserious candidates that the democrats have, there no chance they will win the election. It will be 81. It is a sad day for democrats. Is why talk about the eye of the beholder. It is the title of the book, confirmation bias. Depending on what side you are on you see it through different lens. Each side has things they are angry about. Will right in that you hear a lot of discussion in the president ial campaign about the court. More than we have, heard in the past certainly from democrats. Youre hearing documents talking but we need to expand the court, term limit the court to offset this conservative influence that will probably be growing. I think that is going to be a big back story. Host you write, they said it was also in turmoil, badly torn by decades of bitter war. A destructive running battle over the court since the mid1980s. Washington was in for a shock. The consequences would roil leading government institutions for generations. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you, gentlemen. Congratulations to our president for trying to promote peace instead of more, in less bloody wars. My point to your guest is the public, i believe, and i like his comment, we will never forget the democrat in the media circus who declared Brett Kavanaugh guilty until proven innocent. Socalled politicians, like mr. Cory booker, who angrily kavanaugh with these unproven allegations and compared himself to spartacus. The Fake News Media for hyping these unproven allegations with liars like Michael Avenatti that bad taste, i believe, in the American Peoples mouths. Guest i agree there was a lot wasitterness and that a poisonous hearing. It affected judge kavanaughs life going forward. He gets confronted in public. Michael avenatti, the republicans who worked this nomination for senator grassley, they think that was a crucial part of the nomination. It really helped them get kavanaugh over the finish line. The Michael Avenatti allegations were too far, too much. The republicans embrace them. There were republicans who worked on this who said if it was just miss ford, cavanagh would have a hard time. It was when the allegations got expanded so far that they lost credibility that helped the republicans. There will be a hangover from that hearing for a long time, just as there is from the Clarence Thomas hearing in 1991. Joe biden is having to deal with the way he conducted himself. He was the chairman of the committee. People sometimes think the republicans must have been running the senate, how else could Clarence Thomas through. Then they look at the current environment. That Supreme Court nominations have a long halflife going forward. Host you talk about the hangover. Lets go to 2018 and remember to of the more iconic omens. We carry all of them on cspan as part of our video library. Christine blasey ford, currently living in the d. C. Area outside Montgomery County maryland, recounting what happened to her, allegedly, when she was a high school student. [video clip] im here today not because i want to be. Im terrified. Im here because i believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and i were in high school. I have described the events publicly before. I summarized them in my letter to Ranking Member feinstein and again in a letter to chairman grassley. I understand and appreciate the importance of hearing from me directly about what happened to me and the impact this has had on my life, my family. Host a portion of the opening statement. Don mcgahn is with Brett Kavanaugh, the nominee at the time. What happened . Guest Brett Kavanaugh does not watch the testimony. Host he does not watch any of it . Guest as far as im aware. Mcgahn. What he told don he arrives to prepare for his own testimony. Republicans are nervous. That was incredible performance. What is going to happen . Trump is in contact with Mitch Mcconnell. He says it is only half time. And ifahn is in office, im not mistaken he ins up in tom tillersons office. They had a tv problem, so they were in the conference room, i presume. Kavanaugh shows up. With all of the justices and nominees, there is clerkse of former around them advising them and supporting them. One person suggests maybe you need to be conciliatory. Don mcgahn says you are out of here and clears the room except for he, kavanaugh, and kavanaughs wife. Who, by the way, went to leave the room but don mcgahn told her to stay. Justice kavanaugh said something to the effect, what do i need to know . You need to reboot the room. Tell your story, push back. This is what your work has been for, and this will be decided in the next few minutes what will happen to you. They had had litigators in the white house to prepare him to push back. Orrin hatch, a longtime former chairman of the 80 had said to mcgahn, at some point kavanaugh is going to have to show his metal and push back. That is part of the reason why you saw him go in so hot. Not only a famous moment they on saturday famous night live. [video clip] effort whole twoweek has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit, fueled with apparent pentup anger about President Trump the 2016 election. Fear that has been unfairly stoked about my judicial record. Revenge on behalf of the clintons. Millions of dollars in money from outside, leftwing opposition groups. This is a circus. Extendsequences will long past my nomination. The consequences will be with us for decades. Host Brett Kavanaugh. We should point out also that he went on to get confirmed by the u. S. Senate. Guest there were still big events to come. Host it is reminiscent. As Clarence Thomas said, hightech lynching. He seemed to be out of that same page. Guest that speech was to the republicans on the committee, not the democrats. He needed to keep them in line. That is why Lindsey Graham speech was so important. If you join with democrats in tearing down this man, you will have committed a disservice. Because of the rules changes they could do it on their own. This was his attempt to get back. It backfired with the democrats, of course, because that gave them more fuel to say he didnt have the judicial temperament to do this. The republicans rallied around. History. Is i agree with what he said, the consequences will live for decades. I think it is the last line in my book. Brett kavanaugh are on the same page there. Caller thank you for taking my call. I have a question for mr. Hulse. Given the dysfunctionality of the politicalization of the process,ourt selection i wonder what his opinion is of the use of a structural change like a term limit for Supreme Court justices. Secondly, not having read his book, i wonder if he gets into the issue to the extent which broadcast media, the entertainment industry, and reality tv aspects of our society have played into this increased politicalization and polarization of our country . Guest i will take the second question first. I totally believe that social our 24 hour news, which i am involved in, of course, have added to the polarization of the country. People have a chance to vent. Things go viral that are not true. I think it is a big problem. I do think there will be a lot of discussion about change in the court. You can change the court legislatively. The membership numbers have gone back and forth. You can do this. It is going to require a democratic house, democratic atate, democratic president this time. You are also hearing people talk about this. It came up in the debate with jay inslee, we need to get rid of the filibuster. Need people have said we to make this change. The first thing that would have to happen is democrats get control of the senate, eliminate the filibuster, and force a big court. In the you can imagine what that is going to do in terms of the explosiveness. Talk about partisanship and polarization. This is part of the problem with the courts right now. The legislative arena is so polarized and partisan everything is being done generally speaking by one party or the other. The judges around the country are being asked to decide these political issues, and Everyone Wants their own team on the bench to make those decisions. It has really gotten quite treacherous. Host our guest is the author of the book confirmation bias. We have a Radio Audience as well. Please describe the cover. Which wasis red, chosen by the publishers. Constitution,ed indicative of what is going on in terms of the rules changes and the way things are playing out that are so different from what the Founding Fathers would have envisioned. There is a quote at the beginning of the book from alexander hamilton. They struggled with how to come up with this system of putting president ial appointees in there. He says something to the effect this is the best system we could come up with to fill the seats. It has gotten pretty tricky. The situation puts another hypothetical. Lets say there is a democratic president and a Republican Senate, which is not, by any stretch, out of possibility. Onators now pretty routinely high profile nominees vote against the other partys nominee. That is what their voters expect. Sayheard Kristen Gillibrand she most opposed President Trump than any of the other candidates. Allsaid she votes against of the administrations nominees almost uniformly. How do you get any nominee through a Republican Senate . Mitch mcconnell, as the week was addedg down, he another loop to the 2020 whether he would move ahead to 2020. What about 2021 . He was asked of a democratic president was in and one of the liberal justices left, would you fill the vacancy . He said, for course we would have to consider it. It is not lyrically sustainable to delay a nomination that long. We will look at it, but that doesnt mean we would vote for it. There is trouble ahead, unfortunately. Host good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for having me on your show. I would like to comment on one of the callers said something inut President Trump is over north korea to promote peace. He went to russia to do the same, i guess. Why is it that he has to go behind the scenes . Didnt want no one in the room with him and vladimir putin. I think donald trump is working toa puppet from putin overthrow our government and make a mockery out of our democracy. Host you want to respond . Guest he did have a Public Meeting with putin that did not go very well for him from our perspective because he seemed to make light of the idea of russian interference in the election. Shared a that they joint feeling that they wanted to crackdown on journalists. Somewhat in the journalism business, i found that disturbing. President that the continues to downplay russian interference in the election. He is the last person in washington taking that position. Everyone else considers that serious. He doesnt want to give too much credence to that because that undermines his position. He has gotten into the fight with president carter who has called his presidency illegitimate because of the russian interference. It is a continuing issue for the president and his relationship with putin. Host we were at the event with former president carter. We carry it live on our website. You can type in former president carter and it will come up. Ofe than 250,000 hours programming in our video library. Guest i have to commend you on that. That library was a huge asset to me writing the book. I was constantly going back and looking at things that were only on cspan. Thank you for that. It helped me quite a bit. Host this is one of the more fascinating parts of your book, you are right, when it came to , bannon, andn other conservative thinkers cared about touchtone issues such as gay rights, abortion, and religious freedom, but were more concerned with tearing down the governments regulatory structure. Guest abortion is an issue on the right and an issue for the courts, but don mcgahn and steve bannon, who was helping him at time, where about decreasing the power of federal agencies. You hear this when you hear about chevron president s. I know that is a legalistic term. There has been a gradual shifting in their view over the years to the agencies, which they call power centers. The agencies have taken it upon themselves to right and write and implement ambiguous federal statutes. They want to take that power back away from the agencies. There were a couple of decisions that the court this term got that much closer. Justice alito said we are going to get one more vote and really go after this. It is little understood, but this is the real push. Host jeff from indianapolis. Democrats line. Caller thank you for taking my call and for having this man on today. He is very informative. In my history following the court, i think we all know the court has gotten poisonous when it comes to the nomination process. Nominee by ronald reagan. One reasonfollow is why borks nominee was so toxic was because of his participation in the saturday night massacre when nixon was president. I dont know if you know this or not. Fired the if he special prosecutor . Guest i dont know if there was an explicit promise, but it was a factor in president nixon looking favorable on rob report robert bork that he was willing to do that. That energize democrats against him. I think robert fork is such a fascinating person. Robert bork is such a fascinating person. Did is het heae considered himself to be intellectually superior and wanted to have this debate. That change the confirmation process forever. He was defeated. He insisted on a floor vote and was defeated. What has happened since then is that the nominees dont want to answer any questions because they realize if i say some that is going to give ammunition. In one sense the questioning and attacks have got very polarizing and partisan, but the justices are not saying much. Host we also have a paper trail. That that in part lead to Justice Souter being nominated . Guest that has been, as with other people, too. Cavanaugh had a huge paper trail. The republicans figured out a way to hold back, and they held back a lot of the documents. Host the authority of the Supreme Court comes from the willingness of the republic and branches of the government to accept its decisions. The court has no army to enforce its rulings and is reliant on congress and the executive branch to hold up their into the constitutional bargain. Guest it is like a magic trick. The court issues an opinion and we follow it. Consider it to be the proper thing to do in the will of our government. Sometimes Police Powers have to be used, such as in the desegregation of schools, to enforce it. The danger in the court is if it loses Public Confidence and political confidence on capitol hill, then maybe their rulings will have less weight and become less relevant. Our institutions are being tested right now. From new jersey, republican line. Caller good morning. I have a few comments to make. First, you have a bunch of clowns running on the Democratic Party. They are disgusting. Democratic party is disgusting on what they do. They spit in peoples faces, they attack them, and everything. You dont see republicans doing things like that. Number two, i want to tell all of the africanamerican democrats, the Democratic Party has used you as slaves for your whole life. Host response . Guest no. Host evansville, indiana. Good morning. Caller i would like to make a couple of statements to the one trump is asaid puppet behind the scenes. For one thing, we dont know what goes on behind the scenes. I do remember obama saying on his second term, i will have more flexibility when i get reelected. I want that brought out. We saw that happen. I am neither republican nor democrat. Divided byy has been the media, more or less. To the democrat side, i give respect to all of the president s, regardless if they were republican or democrat, but we have never given so much disrespect to this president that has done so much for this country so far. I really think it is a shame that people do not give respect to this president. There has never been a president put down like this president. They attacked his family, too. Host let me take his point. I guess it is a cliche, but can you put the genie back in the bottle or has the system forever been changed . Guest i always disappoint people because they want me to say we can put the genie back into the bottle. I dont think we can under these circumstances. There is discussion about, they should go back to the 60vote threshold on judges. There used to be of the procedure was there where it would take 60 votes to get a final vote. Host the force bipartisanship. Least. For a consensus at that would make the president consult with the senate, the senate offer some advice. It was not a sure thing, but there would be some conversations will start there probably would not be a filibuster, but it puts some leverage in the hands of the minority. I think that is why president obama went with Merrick Garland. There were a lot of people in the Democratic Party, in the base, who thought that was a bad choice. Older judge, fairly moderate, but pretty reliable in terms of supporting the government in terms of its policies. Say didnt senator hatch nominate mary nominate mary garland . Guest he said that in 2010. Housebook i say the white purposefully kept merrick in casein reserve for he had to try to get a nominee through a Republican Senate. He went with Merrick Garland. Some people think that was a mistake. That garland did not excite the grassroots enough. The republicans at that point backed down. Got in andthe trump nominated neil gorsuch democrats threatened to filibuster, and Mitch Mcconnell eliminated the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees. Some people thought that was a mistake and democrats should have held their fire for the next one when it changed the court. Of the to me, people say lets go back to 60 votes, lets back up. That is not going to happen. People dont give up power theyve got. Now weve learned the senate rules can be changed by simple majority vote through procedural tactics. What is to say, we will agree to do this when we are in, but youll will change the rules when you get in . I dont see it happening. Host not only did leader mcconnell blocked the nomination, they didnt even have a confirmation hearing for Merrick Garland. Guest they were worried if they started hearings, events get momentum, Merrick Garland testifies and is seen as a legitimate nominee. Of course, Merrick Garland was a legitimate nominee will stop he is one of the top jurists in the country. Everyone agrees. Mcconnell made it clear that the interview of Merrick Garland he is not a moderate. He is someone who looks moderate but will always decide the democratic way. What he didnt want to do in the hearings members ended up meeting with him. Susan collins met with him. He didnt want eric garland to get momentum. This guy looks reasonable. Theres nothing wrong with him. One thing ive heard from people who have read the book what stuck out to them is Merrick Garland was treated poorly. Florida, fort lauderdale, good morning. Caller a couple of quick points. The subject. Ff jimmy carter should be ashamed of himself. As a former president he could not have done more to undermine our confidence in our system than what he did. I really wanted to talk about the Supreme Court. Johnson truly put forward a plan to increase the size of the Supreme Court to at least i think the number of circuits. How we end up doing it over several administrations. That would make each Supreme Court vacancy less of a threat to either side and take some heat away. Why is no one looking at this . Guest i think people are looking at these plans. It takes a long time for this sort of thing to happen. The point about doing it over several administrations, because you cant immediately do it, but i think it will take decades, probably, to get real structural changes. It is because the court has become so important as the decider of our political disputes. The court handles a bunch of cases no one pays attention two that our business cases. They do those fine. It is the big ones that they are polarized on. Host amy, georgia, good morning. Caller good morning. I am a 48yearold africanamerican woman. In the 1960smade and the 1970s, i think that the court that we have now and what has been happening on the courts for the past 30 years is like a backlash to those decisions. I want to know if your guest believes that we are living through a backlash to the voting rights, civil rights movement, and roe v. Wade. Guest i actually agree a little bit. Our politics are cyclical. One cycle is a response to the previous cycle. I think there is a little too that. I think now when youre seeing abortion fights break out in the states, because of the current makeup of the court the states see this as a possibility of getting something to the court to overturn roe v. Wade. One thing that will probably really energize democrats and make them think more seriously about the Supreme Court is overturning roe v. Wade. This was a big part of the discussion for the cavanaugh hearings. Susan collins saying that she was convinced Brett Kavanaugh had convinced her that he would not overturn roe v. Wade. He said that he was very decisive. That precedents should be given weight. The court has shown a new willingness to overturn precedents in a lot of areas. Host lake from alabama. Quick question or comment blake from alabama. Quick question or comment . Caller i want to ask the gentleman from the New York Times, when president obama nominated eric garland i was stunned. Fully onealready third of the judicial was jewish. It didnt seem like that was balanced enough. He nominated a fourth jewish judge. Is there no nonjewish democratic potential justices left to be nominated . Actually have a big influence on the Supreme Court. Host they have the majority. Guest don mcgahn is a devout catholic, your upcoming guest was not there is a lot of catholic influence on the court, too. Host the court taking up the docket issue, what will they look at . Guest a potentially explosive issue. They will decide if the president has the power to establish this program through executive order. It is one of the reasons why the republicans were determined to stop obama. Executive orders. They wanted a Supreme Court to stand up to those executive orders. This is a big part of Chuck Grassleys opposition. Of thes there any sense relationship between the chief justice and the newest justices . Story. There is a great they embarrass neil gorsuch during his confirmation hearing, releasing an opinion that overturned something another opinion that he had written. There is a little bit of hazing. Someone who knew from the inside new that that had been intentional. If youre coming over here, we play rough. Host what intrigued you the most . Guest one thing that people dont pay enough attention to this issue, that i think is so determinative of our politics. It is great history. Politics ing washington, all events are connected. Stuff happening now is connected to the stuff that happened 40, 50, 100 years ago. I find that fascinating. You have to know what happen in the past to know what is happening in the present. Host confirmation bias inside washingtons war over the Supreme Court, from scalias death to justice kavanaugh. One quick question about the meeting that took place today in north korea. How significant is this for donald trump . Guest i think it is significant. It shows his willingness to take literally the extra step. I think you will get some credit. He wasnt traveling around north korea, but even to cross the line and try to make the meeting and relationship work, i think you have to give him some credit. Host his daughter ivanka said experience was, in her words, surreal. Do you think we will get another summit . Guest probably. Host carl hulse with the New York Times, his book confirmation bias. Good luck with the book. It is that of the month for ,nniversaries, this past week the 50th anniversary of a fire that took place along the Cuyahoga River in cleveland, ohio. We will focus the next hour on the anniversary, the significance of that fire. David stradling, who teaches at the university of cincinnati, will join us from cleveland. First, a documentary from 1966 titled the perfect river guide, chronicling the pollution along the Cuyahoga River. Here is a portion. [video clip] the Cuyahoga River, as most people think of it, the brown stream that meets lake erie, an industrial waterway, its banks populated by a steel mills and factories. Shiftsannels filled with and trudges. The Cuyahoga River, as it reaches lake erie after a 100mile twisting and turning journey from its better waters exhausted stream, used and abused by the man and his machines. Without the cuyahoga, the flowing metropolis of clevelandakron would not exist. River was the reason for settling this reserve in the 1780s. The river, called crooked by water, sos, provided man came and continued coming. Until today, 2 Million People lived and worked in the river basin. Complex,ng this urban man has used the river as men have always used reverse. The flow have been put to work as a navigable stream, a water supply, and as a sewer. Mans mark is everywhere. Epitaph for the cuyahoga . Joining us from the cleveland area is David Stradling. He is the professor of history of the university of cincinnati and the coauthor of where the river burned false hope and the struggle to save cleveland. Let me begin by asking exactly where you are located in explain what happened 50 years ago this month. Guest hi, steve. Thanks for having me. We are sitting near the mouth of the Cuyahoga River, which is to say were sitting where the cuyahoga reaches lake erie. You can see one of the many trestles. There are many bridges come as a downtown cleveland is to my left, and to my right is the ohio city neighborhood and the city of cleveland, and we are sitting in the area called the flats, which are the lands right along the Cuyahoga River. They run up several miles. This is the former Industrial Area of the city of cleveland, june 20ears ago, second, 1969, there was a fire on the Cuyahoga River at the end of navigation, a couple of miles south of here, and of navigation meeting boats could not go farther upstream. Couple of lowa Railroad Trestles blocked some debris that was coming downstream, which was not ers from the pi bridge got soaked in oil, which was also not unusual, and then there was a spark perhaps from a passing train. We do not know how it started. They were doused by both a fire crews on the shore. Photographers do not get there in time to get a picture of the cuyahoga burning that time, but eventually news about the cuyahoga catching fire became international in scope. We are is what celebrating, the 50th anniversary of the cuyahoga no longer catching fire. Host but there have been previous fires along the cuyahoga. This was not the first, correct . Guest absolutely. There were perhaps a dozen, made even more, fires on the cuyahoga before the 1959 fire. 1969 fire. It became famous because many confuse that photograph with the fire that happened in 1969, and that is because Time Magazine, which ran a piece about Water Pollution in august of 1969, either inadvertently or purposely used a photograph from 1952 and simply indicated that this was the Cuyahoga River catching fire. A hint ofgraph shows vote in flames. It was a very damaging fire, with firefighters training water on a very large oil slick that was burning at that point. So most people outside of cleveland would have assumed that rivers dont catch fire on a regular basis. What they were looking at a 1959 in Time Magazine was a photograph of something that just happened. And they are, the confusion only gets more extreme. People begin to think that this was, in 1959, was a catastrophic fire, that there was tremendous damage done, that it was five stories tall, that it burned for hours. I even talked to somebody today who said that it burned for days, so the mythology around begins toned in 1969 grow, and my brother richard and book,we researched our decided probably the reason about the mythology around the Burning River, why it grows so much, is because peoples thoughts about a Burning River having to be a, you know, a this is at, you know, difficult thing, that rivers do not catch fire, and must be a sign of terrible Water Pollution of a type that had never been seen before. And of course the many previous fires dating back into the main is an19th century indication that pollution had been a longterm problem in cleveland. Of course the first fire going back to 1858, but the Time Magazine piece describes the river as was that oozes rather than flows, and people decay rather than drown. Atst i do think it was not adeer, that the pollution was worse in the 1940s and the 1950s. Which is of course why there was a cluster of fires. One of the things the city of cleveland and to improve the Water Quality, or at least th least diminish flammability of the river and to waterup oil slicks with cannons, but that is not something that can be done above the head of navigation, so this particular fire was not preventable in that way. But cleveland, like a lot of cities, had been investing significant amounts of money it is Sewage Treatment infrastructure through the 20th century. I think industry also have been making investments in diminishing the pollution load that it was dumping into the river, and i think, significantly, the Oil Refinery Industry had basically left cleveland by 1969, so standard oil had closed its refinery, number one, which was the last of the major refineries here. So the Water Quality was bad, the ecology was greatly diminished. There was little reason for people to think of the cuyahoga as ecological space, to think of it as a complete river. At the same time, it was not as bad as it had been. Host along with his brother, David Stradling is the coauthor of the book where the river burned, and he made his way from cincinnati to join us in cleveland on this sunday, and we welcome our videos on cspan3s American History tv, as we look back at the events from 50 years ago. We are dividing our lines regionally. 202 7488000 for those of you in the eastern half of the country. 202 7488001 if you are in the mountain and pacific time zone we have a line set aside for ohio residents, especially if you are in the cleveland and akron area, we would love to hear from you, if you remember the events from 50 years ago, 202 7488002. I want to share with you the words of president Richard Nixon, who is credited with the creation of the epa. Here is what he had to say about our environment. [video clip] in the next 10 years, we shall increase our wealth by 50 . The profound question is does this mean we will be 50 richer, in a real sense, 50 better off, meanappier, or does it that in the year 1980, the president standing in this place will look back on a decade in which 70 of our people lived in metropolitan areas, choked by traffic, suffocated by smaller, poisoned by water, death and by noise, andafened by a terrorized by crime . These are not the questions that great World Leaders at the summit fonder. But the people are not governed by the summit, they live at the foothills, and it is time for us to concern ourselves with the way real people live in real life. The great question of the 1970s is shall we surrender to our surroundings, or shall we make our peace with nature and begin to make reparations for the damage we have done to our air, to our land, and to our water . [applause] from the 1970 state of the union address. And David Stradling, as you hear that from Richard Nixon in 1970, when youre after the fire along the Cuyahoga River, your reaction. Guest i think it is a recognition of just how powerful an issue, a political issue the environment had become. Articulates it in a very common wintertime, which is to kind of suggests that theyve had just gotten so bad that now we finally have to deal with them, but, as my earlier comment suggests, the environment, particularly the urban , had been bad for so long, that he is articulating that now we need to do something because american citizens are demanding that they be given access to clean water and clean air, that their cities not be as healthy as they had been. I think this is mostly a recognition that a tide had cha nged, that a series of events, including the Cuyahoga River fire, but also the Santa Barbara oil spill, there was a terrorist terrible pesticide spill on the rhine river just a couple of days after, a fire in cleveland, all of these things begin to build up, these spectacular events, to remind people just how bad the urban environment, industrial environment had become. Host as you look at the river behind you, how does it look to you today . It is remarkable to change that has taken place here. It is twofold. I mean, it is difficult to tell exactly what is going on in the water and self, of course, because it is still the milky brown river that is flowing out of agricultural and forest of land. That flowss debris downstream, of course, but we see waterfowl, we see something you would never have seen 50 years ago, people kayaking. Highs will people out earlier this morning, the cuyahoga has once again become a much more complete river. Recreational a space. There are new parks, new public , fors along the river people for the whole region, and this is something that goes well south of the city of cleveland. The Cuyahoga River Cuyahoga River Valley National park has become a regional and a national treasure, really. It is a remarkable recreation, getting out of the city. Host our guest is David Stradling, coauthor of where the river burned. History atfessor of the university of cincinnati. We want to thank the Music Box Supper Club for allowing us to put our cameras in place to allow David Stradling to share with us on site, on the scene of what it was like there, and the fact that it is now a supper club, that there are bars and restaurants along it, tells you what . Guest well, it tells us that this is part of the city that clevelanders are interested in returning to pure it is not an entirely new movement appeared in the 1990s, cleveland started reimagining the flat, that so Many Industries have moved out. Or is a lot of ure around here. The 1990s, we bit of a rekindling of culture around here by the flats, and it has come back over the last five or 10 years, much more capital put it around here. This is really one of the highlighted areas of clevelands culture. From ohio, sandra, you are the first of. Good morning. Caller yes, good morning. These rivers flow into the lake, lake erie. Than 800brains billion in revenue every year, so when this pollution well, this pollution is very costly. And let me just add to that i live in lorraine, which has a also, black river, which leads into the lake, and a couple of days ago, there was an oil spill on the lake im sorry, on the river, and also, theto take away from rivers, but there was a center lake where a truck was found to a spewing out chemicals into wildlife refugee in spencer lake. Host thank you, sandra. We will jump in and get a response. Sandra points out obviously the problems of pollution have not been completely solved. There is still a lot of industry around lake erie and of course the other great lakes even here a steel meal, even in cleveland, the major steel mills are once again up and running. I believe they have made significant investments and Water Pollution control, also air pollution control, but no happen, andidents there are of course other kinds of contributors to Water Pollution. Lots of cities that grew in the late 19th century and 20 century has , which meansards sanitary sewage combines with storm runoff, and when it rains, that means untreated sewage flows into both the cuyahoga and directly into lake erie. We also know that lake erie suffers from nonpoint pollution, not point source pollution, runoffs agriculture mostly, particularly in toledo from the river. Tell my students, there are no permanent victories in environmental protection. It is an ongoing effort. You have to adjust to new threats, new problems, and to be vigilant about regulations and restoration. Host from west of cleveland, this is tim. You are on the air. Good morning. Caller i just want to say that i was born and raised along the shores of the wall be river, which is close to the shores of lake erie. I remember when the phone would wash up. As a kid, you do not know that is not normal, but it is disgusting, now, thinking back. This was in the 1970s. I remember that commercial with the indians, you walk the walk, mommy river have fish, ande now it is cleaned up a lot. Now we seem to be getting back to what we all care about, protecting our environment. It is like we won that battle, and we are doing the same thing all over again with the oceans and all that. Sooner or later, you have to realize that you cannot keep polluting where you live at. When you Say Something to somebody, oh, you are a tree hugger, and all of these crazy things that are being said, cant it be a logical species 500 years ago, we did not go upstream to get drinking water. That is just stupid. Are poisoning ourselves, and that is how i feel. Host thank you. We will get a response. Guest yeah, i appreciate the reference to the foaming maumee river. He is referring to a period of time when detergents were adding thisch of phosphates, and is a new low of phosphates act as a fertilizer. They got clothes a lot cleaner, but they got waterways a lot dirtier. They provided a lot of nutrients, and we got algae blooms come and it was a big problem in the 1960s. That was solved through regulation. We no longer see the visible, thatnow, suds from problem, but we do see some visible problems in lake erie occasionally, including the is algae blooms, thatm happen every summer, mostly from agricultural runoffs. I will say the visibility of Environmental Issues can be really important to gathering, you know, political will. I think that is one of the reasons why the Cuyahoga River fire became so important, because even though the image came from a different fire, the river on fire really galvanized people. Waters one way to see pollution is to actually see a river on fire. Otherwise, it is difficult to test the Ecological Health of a river, because you have to do tests, right . And then it becomes an issue of numbers rather than visibility. I think this is an issue that has plagued trying to solve the much larger problem of climate change. It is difficult to identify imagery that can create the political valence that gets wasle moving the way nixon forced to move in 1970. Host with the Cuyahoga River behind him, our guesses David Stradling. From decatur, alabama, good morning. This is audrey. Good morning. Caller good morning. Touchedve really something that i have ocd about plastic. Plastic bottles, the plastic waste, the plastic jugs, i have called my sister and threatens to carry my cat litter, the big it gets bucket, when they ge empty, refill it and leave it at target. I want to remind you for the fourth of july, you cannot find the little thin plastic plates anymore. Wash your place. Silverware. I love c standard i love you all, steve. Just have a wonderful day. You. Audrey, thank david, what about plastic bags, water bottles, and other debris . Certainly ans ongoing problem with the great lakes and the ocean into which they flow. Floating trash debris down the river, which has been a longterm problem, but of course now that there is plastic, it last much longer and is not break down. She is absolutely right that needs attention. Going all the way back to the first earth day in 1970, the students, real people generally was to pick up trash, much less of which would have been trash at the time. Again, that ever was about visibility, that you can see that there is an ecological and environmental, because you can see the trash. Even though it may not be the most urgent of issues in 1970, and was one of people felt like and i thinkackle, that we see a lot of cleanup efforts around riverbanks. We certainly see it along the ohio and in cincinnati. Every year, we have a major cleanup around the river banks. It makes, you know, it is a visible problem with a very visible impact when you pick up trash. Host great history of the Cuyahoga River, the river that bends in cleveland, ohio. There are reportedly at least 13 separate fires, the first that dates back to 1868. The largest fire, that we talked about a moment ago, in 1950 two, causing more than 1 million in damage, and in 1969, Time Magazine describing the cuyahoga as the river that and inather than flows, person does not drown but the case. But decays. Guest carl stokes is the first africanamerican mayor of any major city. He really understands the problems of urban america. He was raised in poverty himself in cleveland. He groaned in one of the most degraded neighborhoods in Public Housing in central. He had a unique view on the problems of a railamerica as far as major politicians are concerned. That he willtood understood the problems for residents in cleveland, but he knew that cleveland itself s waterrecover if it quality continues to diminish and particularly if air quality continued to diminish. Unlike many politicians of the area, when he talked about problems of urban america, he completely mangled the urban crisis with the american crisis, as allusions to one problem were not going to solve the problems of urban america. Solve all of these problems at once. The day after the cuyahoga fire on a sunday morning, so on a monday morning, he had his staff called together the local press and take them on what my brother richard and i call the pollution tour. They meet at the railroad tresses where the problems took, and he discusses generally the problems of Water Pollution in the cuyahoga but also lake erie, noting that the city of cleveland was really powerless to solve the problems of Water Pollution. In fact, much of the polluted water comes into cleveland from its suburbs, from farther away cities like akron, but most directly from cuyahoga heights, which is just beyond the city limits. He talks about the way in which the suburbs themselves have not created, Sewage Treatment plants had not tied into the public Sewage Treatment plants, and the state of ohio had issued permits insid two industries inside the city of cleveland that allow them to pollute the cuyahoga. There was really little that carl stokes could do himself. He needed the federal government to provide resources to expand Sewage Treatment, particularly. Host lets go to tom, joining us from twinsburg, ohio. Good morning. Caller good morning, cspan, and thanks for having me on. I would like to say i am a proud clevelander, and from what i understand some the Cuyahoga River was not the only river that was catching on fire in those days. Happen, i amat glad that the show is on and it Cuyahoga River is cleaned up as well as i have, and it has, like, 18 different species, there are fish coming back on the river, and we take pride in cleveland. Unfortunately, we have taken the brunt of jokes after the river caught fire, to. We have not lived that down. I would like to say other cities have the same problems. And for my understanding well, that is all i had to say. Thank you, david, and thank you, cspan. Host thank you. David, if you look behind you, you will see a cargo ship. Earlier we saw kayakers and small boats. It really is a crosssection of what that river is navigatin. Guest yeah. And he makes a good point about the cuyahoga not being the only river that caught fire. The river in detroit, a really polluted industrial rumor, the Buffalo River in buffalo of course, even the hudson caught fire. So it is not unheard of. What is interesting is the moreoga fire much frequently than other rivers, which has more to do with the way that the river operates as a river, that it is narrow, windy, a slowflowing river, the number of bridges that cause obstruction and gather debris. It was much more of a fire hazard than others. But all of the ingredients were present in other places as well. He also points out that cleveland, you know, this becomes woven into the mistake on the lake reputation about cleveland. Obviously, cleveland gets more negative attention because of the river fire, but honestly, i think in the long term, it serves cleveland fairly well, this mythology, that people begin to think of this as kind of an important watershed moment, a birthplace, if you will, for significant attention to Water Pollution in the United States, an invictus to the clean water act, which came along in 1972, and lots of other waterways in the United States, including lake erie behind me, where terribly polluted. We begin to weave a story that has the cuyahoga the center of that. And of course theres some thing to be said for host please continue. Guest i think there is something to be said for the way in which the city has taken pride in the improvements that have happened since, over the subsequent 50 years, the transformation of the banks along the river, the opportunity letter here, to reimagine the Cuyahoga River itself, but also the entire city of cleveland, becoming a postIndustrial City. Host of course cleveland hosting the 2016 Republican National convention and this year hosting the allstar game. So in many points, it is working to come back. I want to share with you and our audience more from that documentary, two years after traveled filmmakers to cleveland in 1966 can back and saw this. [video clip] [horn blowing] by the time the cuyahoga reaches cleveland, it is already dead. L 44 Sewage Treatment plants and at least 22 known industries discharge waste into ack of the late, but cleveland adds even more ethanol to the river alone. Now what is known as the only one that boils. There is a lot of talk about cleaning up lake erie, but the thing about cleaning up the lake is not the lake so much, it is the tributaries. You have to clean up the tributaries that lead into the lake. They find they have to clean it first. Many dirty it more before dumping it back. While the foot area will never again be it can be made not to smell. But talks of the cleanup may be staggering. I guess it boils down to two things. Industrialmping our waste and other waste into our waterways. Second, now we have got to clean up the mess we have made in the past many decades while we have been doing this. Host from the 1971 film a Crooked River dies an epilogue. What changed from 1971 to today . How did we get to this point . I think there are several things that affect displays in particular. Obviously, the federal regulation sounding] guest [laughs] host there you go [laughter] guest in as a living river, right . Federal regulation matters, but sewageestment, too, in treatment, making sure that suburban communities tie into Sewage Treatment plants. I also made in this particular location, the fact that so much of the industry has left means that clevelanders have to worry less about water and air pollution. Of course it means they have to worry more about jobs and what the evolving economy will become. Host what with all those industries situated along the cuyahoga and along the great lakes, of what was the thinking of those executives that basically used the rivers and lakes as a dumping ground . Mostly, uh, the idea is that the lakes and rivers could handle the pollution loads, at least early on. I think there is very limited understanding of what happens to pollution once you put it in a waterway. There was hope and expectation that pollutants would breakdown or simply be carried away. That is certainly the case for industry and communities that dumped into waterways, the sense that it would be gradually diluted and become harmless. That is untenable, when you get so much industry concentrated in one place. At that point, it becomes difficult for industries to, um, figure out how to work into their Capital Investment structure of the incredible a lot of of investment that is necessary to change the way that they perform their basic processes. Industries do make those changes early on, republics feel, creates new settling basins, so filingsy dump less iron into the Cuyahoga River. Some problems are more difficult, technologically, to serve salt. Solve. And some are so difficult that they stopped here and moved to places where regulation is less intense. Host cuyahoga is an indian name, which represents what . Guest the cuyahoga means red scrooked mean river. Bands. Re really dramatic you cannot get a sense of it from the mouth behind me, but in fact this is an artificial mouth that was punched out in the 19th century, and that large boat that just came by and starring mae was coming out of the old river, which took a sharp left behind me. [horn honking] host and he was on cue with the sounds. [laughter] guest yes. The reason it is cricket is because it comes from the south sourceskron, but its actually a little bit to the north and well to the east of cleveland, so it heads south and then heads back north. Host we welcome a regular audience. Our guesses David Stradling. Where the river burned carl stokes and the struggle to save cleveland. He is joining us from cleveland. Mary is on the phone. Good morning. Caller good morning. Girl, illy, as a young learned how to swim within the Cuyahoga River, a little bit in a small town called man tntawe. It is a small town before you get to akron. I grew up along the river, and what to get past akron is where the pollution came from. I am being years old, and this was occurred in 1969, and i nine years old at the time. My father was a truck driver who holds steel out of the flats out of cleveland, and at that point in time, the air pollution was so bad that you would not be able to see, david where he is standing at this moment here to 30 miles out of cleveland, you can smell the air pollution, and when you got close to the air was actually yellow, filled with sulfur from steel mills and other factories that were up there. The street lights were on in the middle of the afternoon because the air was so polluted, and the residents in the houses that list close to that area, their homes were just gray with pollution. I have seen the Cuyahoga River as a child and watched, and it justy did not flow, creates a long, literally as an foam, filledwith with floating, dead fish, and it was amazing because the area of the cuyahoga that i grow by, was clean. We were swimming and catching fish in it. Saw floatingyou tires, floating logs, anything that werehing, boats upside down floating along the river, and the stench that came from the river and from cleveland at the time was so verandas and the Health Issues so her rent this, so horre ndous, and the Health Issues that came. It is such a difference of night and day, from then until now. Host mary, thank you. Guest mary is coming from one of my favorite little towns in the Northern Ohio peninsulas, doubt inside the National Park on the cuyahoga valley. , to she is absolutely right talk extensively about air pollution, which i think most clevelanders what is identified as the words of the environmental problems in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Certainly it was a visible problem, and i think it was a major impetus to the clearing , developers in the 1950s and 1960s were developing new subdivisions, while away from the industrial core, as more and more americans of automobiles and can commute longer distances as we invest highways, so that people can take those longer commutes, People Choose to live farther away from polluted environments. Cleaning up, that particularly air pollution, but also Water Pollution, allowing to beaches along lake erie here in the city has been an important part of the revival of american cities, including cleveland, that in a polluted, urban environment, people feel much more comfortable raising their children, much more comfortable spending the recreational time. So i do think that carl stokes was absolutely right when he indicated that you cannot solve the urban crisis in the United States without also solving the environmental crisis. It is the summer of anniversaries, 50th anniversary. We talked about the stonewall wassing last week, and it in june of 1969 of the Cuyahoga River carr fire. And next month, Neil Armstrongs historic moon landing and walk on the moon. We will feature that in an upcoming washington journal on saturday, july 20, from the air and space museum. Jenny is on the phone from honolulu, hawaii. Good morning. Caller good morning to you, and thank you for this program. I am calling again about some plastics. I was recently on the mainland. I am from st. Louis. And i visited for two months. Different gasoline stations each time i filled up, asking, can i get a match or a pack of matches, can i buy matches . No. You can get them at a Grocery Store or big drugstores, but you cannot get matches anymore, bic lighters are sold with greatest abundance, i think. And it is funny, we used to be able to get free matches everywhere cigarettes were sold, they gave away matches. I think that is one of the solutions and items that is unnecessary. The other when i notice everywhere i go is people use plastic containers for liquid soaps when they washed their hands, when they used to pick up a bar of soap. There is nothing wrong with picking up a bar of soap to wash your hands. And all of this extra plastic coming into our world makes me very sad. Hawaii is very advanced. We got rid of plastic bags pretty much. We are attacking styrofoam and straws. That also want to say rivers are attacked in another way, besides pollutants, they are also dammed up for Recreational Purposes and for making power generation, and levees all over the place, restraining rivers from flooding cities and other areas. I think maybe we should take a lighter step on the planet and stop being so aggressively abusive to mother earth. Thank you. Host jenny, thank you for the call. David, are we seeing that, on thisthey put a tax plastic bags or banning them completely, as we see in new york and elsewhere . Guest yeah, i think she points to the idea that you really cant rely on consumers, necessarily, to think all the time about the ways in which thei little decisions atr up to a big impact on the averment. The environment. You know, we passed through that bottle laws. Many states have them come ohio does not, that requires that you have a deposit on bottles and cans, including a new york state, for bottled water. Those bond will laws, as troublesome as they might be for groceries loudly]nking [laughter] guest i am not sure what that was. I think there is another big boat coming. Guest it is interesting, if you look behind you, that looks like a bridge that goes up and down depending on the movement of the ship. Guest did it go up . Host it is down right now. Guest there is a barge coming down. It may not go up to the lake. For those kind of regulations, they may seem obtrusive to some, but they really matter. The litter in new york state plummeted after they passed and it is theaw, political kind of power that certain corporations have that prevents more states from passing those kinds of laws, and i think this is we have seen communities, individual cities pass regulations regarding plastic bags, in particular, as an indication that states have failed to regulate, that they are unwilling to take these steps, and i think we will see that more and more in the coming years, as cities recognize that if somebody is going to do something about problems like and broaderution problems like climate change, they will have to make the steps. Host mike is on the phone from akron, ohio, part of where the cuyahoga is located. By the way, David Stradling, you are doing a great job with the busearges and the horns. It wouldnt startle anyone. Thank you very much. Guest [laughs] caller i live close to the tow ,ath, from cleveland, cuyahoga the northern part of stark county. I am very proud of it. It is a lot cleaner than it was when i was growing up. River begins in a small city of burton, it flows south into kent. From there, it goes west into akron, and from there north into cleveland, cuyahoga county. Atrew up in Cuyahoga Falls the border of akron, and there dam right on the border of those two cities, and i believe if they tore down that would be even better. The little Cuyahoga River, which flows into the Cuyahoga River, which used to be by the golf course, gives all kinds of pollutants into the little Cuyahoga River, which flows into the Cuyahoga River. Just south of us is the test reuss river, which of course flows south and is married to the ohio river. Even though we are much closer to lake erie than to the mississippi river, only 1 4 of the water that is dropped in ohio, rainwater, goes into lake erie. Ohio flowswater in south to north lanes. New orleans. I went to cant State University back in 1971. I can tell you a whole lot about may 4, 1970, but that is not what this is about. As a student, i used a hike the Cuyahoga River, as well as a young kid, and one last thing, i live by the nature well, i live that, the street from democrat, as well as reagan, the republican, are responsible for the cuyahoga Valley National park. I love taking the train to the peninsula, 303, one of the most scenic places in ohio. There is still work to be done, a lot of work needs to be done to get this river as clean as it should be, but i am very proud to be from ohio. Host mike, thank you, from akron. David stradling. Guest i am glad he referenced when she talked about the ohio and that you make, which it went down the Cuyahoga River valley and down, that direction to connect to the ohio river. It was an important 19thcentury investment in the transportation infrastructure that helped to this region grow and become eventually the Industrial Center that it became. It is now being recreated into the entire length of it, even here in the city of cleveland, to become unimportant recreational route. To some people, that may not seem important, but it really is ant of the remaking for Industrial City into a postIndustrial City, to make this a more Pleasant Place to happier place to live, a healthier place to live. These things matter in an area where capital can move very, very freely come up when the kind of industries that we rely on our not terribly placespecific, the way is teel manufacturing was. If cleveland wants to attract more employees come up in creating a landscape that those people can enjoy when they are partt work is an important of the puzzle that needed to be done. So i think he is describing, you know, some important changes that have taken place over the last 30 years. And i will emphasize that these things do not happen over themselves. That a lot of hard work gets done to improve the environment, to make sure that investments take place, lobbying local and state governments to localhe investments, communities that do their part to make certain that they take advantage of things like the towpath, it really is something that requires a lot of people and engagement. Host and of course we see that behind you, both with the barge ships and the recreational vehicles behind you. David stradling is the author of where the river burned. Good morning. Caller good morning. Myrew up in michigan, and family had a farm in kingsville, ontario, canada, and we used to swim in lake erie every summer. And i remember the first year that we could not go swimming becauset 1956 or 1957, there were so many dead perch and bass floating all around and had washed up on the shore. It was horrible. Host thanks for the call. We will go to joan in ormond beach, florida. Good morning. Thanks for waiting. Caller thank you for taking my call. From new yorkd and i am a resident of ormond beach, florida. I was surprised to see that in the supermarkets, they charge five cents for plastic bags and all plastic products, water five centsey receive on each bottle. Host joan, we are getting a little feedback, but we understand your point. We talked about it a little earlier. David stradling, do you want to talk about that again . Guest i do want to address the beach issue, going swimming in lake erie, if i may, because that is one thing that carl stokes tackled when he was mayor. He understood that cleaning the entirety of lake erie would take a lot of effort from a lot of different jurisdictions, including canada, but mostly in the United States. But there are two beaches here in the city of cleveland, one of which is just to the west of us, and it is very close to the Sewage Treatment plant, which is also just to the west of us. It was much too polluted in the late 1960s and early 1970s for people to swim there any longer. And then there is another beach on the far east side of the city of cleveland called white city beach. Carl stokes wanted to make certain that City Residents have access to beaches, people who lived in the suburbs who have their own cars could drive farther out of the city to go to beaches that were still clean enough to swim in, but City Residents without cars could not do that, so he and his director of Public Utilities devised a system by which they dropped ke,stic sheeting into the late and inside that plastic sheeting, they dropped chlorine, which would kill the bacteria, but it also killed the fish. They would clean the beach of the fish and then open up the beach for swimming. For some people, this seemed rather miraculous, that they could safely swim and lake erie, take advantage of this resource. For now, it might seem like kind of an unfortunate baby step, but to me, it indicates the way in which carl stokes operated at the local level, solving problems for people whose problems he really understood, but also, at the same time, lobbied the federal government to do the work that it needed to do to clean up lake erie more generally. Host David Stradling, having grown up along lake erie, it seems like the tourism along the lake is now thriving. Is that a Fair Assessment . Guest i think it has seen an uptick. On a lot of is true american waterways, that real estate along lakefronts and increased inhave value. Part of that has to do with him on earlier caller talked about no stench, which is mostly longer there, the fact that people can make about the lake of you river as some know, truly ecological and recreational space, that makes it much more attractive to, you know, they changed meaning of it makes it much more attractive, even if you are just looking at it through a window. I do think that we have seen an awful of more investments along waterways, lake erie included. Donald is next from cincinnati, where David Stradling teaches. Good morning. Caller good morning, steve. Good morning, david. Agos 13 years old 15 years 50 years ago when the fire happened. I vaguely remember hearing about it. But i was more concerned about the ohio river. I am from your neck of the woods. You know that. I remember not being able to eat caught coming from the ohio river. Nobody would do that. And i think what you said earlier is absolutely true. Just throwt if you it in the river, it would wash away, and we have learned. I am glad, and the ohio is a much nicer river now. Host david . The ohioah, you know, has a much more complicated history, in part because it is a much larger river and troubles, you know, through lots of industrial regions. It has its origins in pittsburgh, obviously. Chemicalhe industry in West Virginia flows past the city of cincinnati. Also,ertainly remember you know, chemical spills, and the city of cincinnati would ts water intake and weight for chemicals to pass. I still would not eat fish that come out of the ohio river. An indication that there is work yet to be done, that these are cleaner landscapes but not perfectly clean landscapes. We have seen some backtracking in recent years, as far as environmental regulation is concerned. The Ohio River Sanitation Commission just recently decided that regulations could be enforced locally rather than regionally, which i think is very problematic. I do not think if people think the success has been so complete that we can dismantle our regulatory system, but i think that sets us up for future failure. Wayne from bolton, mississippi, a quick question or comment . Caller this is got to go down as one of the greatest segments i have ever seen. Just now, everybody sees the bridge go up, the river, the kia go by a few minutes ago, this is incredible. This has got to go down as one of the greatest segments, your episode things in the world. Watching it go up, who has the rightofway . You are doing a great job with David Stradling, and i tell you right now, you are really quite a remarkable looking guy, and you are doing a great job. Host thank you, wayne. Appreciate the call and the comments. We agree with that, david, you are dealing with a lot on the scene. Guest yeah, who knew that this was going to be such an active segment, especially on a sunday morning . Obviously, it is a Beautiful Day for boaters here in cleveland. They are not also beautiful, i know that, but we were not anticipating this much commercial activity. Host but very quickly, the fire took place june 22, 1969. A year later, earth day occurred, the very first one. How did the cleveland area reacts to that . My brother was and i thought that we were going to write a history of the relationship between the city of cleveland and the Cuyahoga River an. So basically a longer biography of the river, if you will. One of the first things i did was look into carl stokes papers at the western reserve historical society, a remarkable collection of his four years of mayor from 1967 to 1971, and in that collection is a wonderful folder, a couple of folders filled with letters from children from earth day. Firstil of 1970, the earth day in the United States, a wild success, both locally and nationally. It really gave an indication of the level of concern about the environment and willingness to take steps to do something to clean up the environment. Hundreds ofeland, children wrote, as part of a school project, or even on their own, wrote a letter to carl stokes about the environment, their concerns about the environment. Many of them were about air pollution, i think overwhelmingly. The number one concern of these children was air quality. Fast behind that was concerned about Water Quality. The vast majority of those students discussed lake erie, because, particularly for suburban kids, the inability to fish in lake erie anymore, the commercial fishery had collapsed, and they were no longer suggesting that people problematic andly people were having trouble finding places to swim in lake erie. A real loss to the region. What surprised richard and myself was that very few students wrote about the Cuyahoga River at all. Only one of those hundreds of letters referenced the fact that the Cuyahoga River caught fire. 10 months after the Cuyahoga River burning, it did not matter that much to local conceptions about the environmental crisis. They did not need a river catching fire to know that the industrial river landscape in cleveland was terribly polluted. They had lots of other indications of that. Particularly the air quality. Host david teaches at the university of cincinnati and he is the author of where the river burn. Joining us along the cuyahoga ofer after the fire of june 1969. Enke for being with us and thank you for doing a terrific job thank you for being with us and thank you for doing a terrific job in light of the cargo ships. Thank you. Host the full documentary, we showed an excerpt a moment ago titled the Cuyahoga River, and epilogue, the death of the rigor river. That is coming up right now on cspan3s American History tv. Here on cspan television, cspans washington journal is live everyday at 7 00 a. M. Eastern time. 4 00 for those of you on the west coast. We will focus on the u. S. China trade and the aftermath of the g20 summit. Joseph gagnon and derek scissors is joining us are joining us. Stephen hawkins will talk about the Perception Gap tomorrow at 7 00 a. M. Eastern time and 4 00 on the pacific coast. News anchors is up next newsmakers is up next. Have a good weekend. Is availabledule on our website at cspan. Org. Im a white male and i am prejudiced. Is something that i have learned. I dont like to be forced to like people. I like to be led to like people through example. What can i do to change to be a better american . That was a remarkable moment. I did not realize until i stepped off the set, because there were more calls after that. We had to keep rolling. How powerful it was. There was something in his voice that touched me. You can hear it. It is so authentic as he searches for the words to Say Something to a National Audience that most of us will not admit in our home, im prejudiced. Announcer tonight on q a, Heather Mcghee was a guest on cspans washington journal in august of 2016 when gary called. She talks about the interaction and her followup with gary. Part of the reason for that is you have to remember, this is august. We have had this racially charged summer with Donald Trumps campaign. With black lives matter and the Police Shootings and tragic events in baton rouge and dallas. It was really a time where people felt like all they were seeing on tv about race was bad news. Here was, first, a white man admitting that he was prejudiced. Wech, for people of color, all said finally. Announcer tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. Host this weekend on newsmakers, carrie severino, who is the chief counsel and policy director for the judicial crisis network. Thank you for being here. Carrie great to be here. Host alex swoyer, the legal reporter with the Washington Times and simone pathe with rollcall