Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 06112019 20240714

Later, travel writer and tv host rick steves talks about his role as an Advisory Board member of the National Organization for the reform of marijuana laws. Host good morning. It is tuesday, june 11, 2019. Yesterday, the House Judiciary Committee sought again to shine the spotlight on the Mueller Report. Onay they will vote whether to seek action against attorney general william barr. Throughout the day on cspan, will be covering it all. As you do, we want to hear your thoughts and your reaction. Here is how. For republicans, give us a call 8001, for ther democrats, 2027488000 and for 2027488002. You can also catch up with us on social media. It is facebook. Com cspan. A lot of moving parts here is where we are right now. Yesterday, the House Judiciary Committee, former white house nixon counsel john dean testified. Here is one of the headlines about the hearing. The house hearing detours into watergate is what the notes. Gton post yesterday, the Justice Department and the Judiciary Committee also came together in agreement on the documents, averting a criminal contempt vote for attorney general barr for now. But the house is now moving to allow House Judiciary Committee chairman Jerrold Nadler and others to move forward to pursue their investigation in federal court, to pursue their subpoenas. In addition, the House Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings analyses expecting to move forward later this week with a possible contempt vote for attorney general barr and over ross related to his investigation into the Citizenship Question on the 2020 census. We have a lot going on this morning and we are getting your reaction to all of it. Again if you would like to join the discussion, for republicans, it is 2027488001, for the democrats, 2027488000 and for ,he independencts 2027488002. I am pleased we have written agreement to review some of the evidence underlying the Mueller Report including interviews, firsthand accounts of misconduct and other critical evidenc and that this material will be made without delay to members of committee on both sides of the aisle. As a result, i see no need to resort to the criminal contempt statute for now, so long as the Department Withholds bargain. F the , this does not extend to the full scope of our request for the full report and its underlying materials including grand jury information. Nor does it extend to our demand but don mcgann testified before the committee. Our work will therefore continue tomorrow on the house floor when we consider chairman mcgoverns resolution to authorize this committee to enforce its subpoena to civil dedication. It is my expectation. That as a result of this exhortation, mr. Trump again will testify. Will testify. Merely a portion but intricate russian nationals, as some have suggested, but the entire report, including the volume that lays out some of the president s troubling behavior. Host for more on what happens next. We turn to the Legal Affairs staffer with cq roll call. Todd, can you talk about how the deal came together and the scope of the document the Judiciary Committee will start seeing in the days and weeks to come . Guest good morning. Thank you for having me on. It looks like the deal came together last week. As late as thursday, the leadership in the house with paying they were going to have a contempt in the house was saying they were going to have a contempt vote on white House Counsel don mcgann to enforce the subpoenas we have, then on thursday, they filed a resolution. It was a bit of a turnaround, it does not mention contempt at all. What it does is authorize them to go to court. So you can see there is a push and pull of negotiations that have been going on over how much subpoenas oruld be not silly at best subpoena or not. Interesting part of the resolution that also came out was that it would authorize Jerrold Nadler and the committee to go after grand jury material. To petition the court to release grand jury material that was involved in the investigation, which has been a key Sticking Point in the negotiations. The attorney general and the Justice Department has said they cannot turn that over, and that was part of the subpoena, so this would remove one of the Sticking Points. So it looks like both sides are moving Forward Together to see how they can accommodate each other. Host the vote today also sets up an interesting mechanism for the Committee Chairs to go to federal court, to pursue their subpoenas and their investigation. Can you talk about that . Guest so, for weeks, House Democrats have been saying they need to find the Trump Administration officials in contempt of congress in order to lawsuits. Rd on the that has to do with the Trump Administration wanting to defend a lawsuit, they can say that the house is not authorized to file the lawsuit. That is why they are going through these hoops to show that the full house authorized the lawsuit. They were saying that contempt was the way to go. This is a different way. It allows them to do what the House Democratic leadership called civil contempt, which is to file a lawsuit. In addition to the house judiciary lawsuits for mcganncally the barr and subpoenas, it allows House Committees to go to court with the approval of a Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group, three Democratic Leadership and two republican leadership. With the vote of that group, it would be the same as authorizing , having the full house vote. So in the future, if other communities what to go forward with this, there would be no vote of the full house needed. Host so what happens next . We are hearing that the House Oversight committee are looking to hold contempt vote tomorrow over their own investigations into the Citizenship Question on the 2020 census . Guest so this is part of the attempt of the House Democrats to do oversight on the Trump Administration, and the Trump Administration having opposed all the subpoenas. So it is a major step forward. Path. Oths the but the agreement of the d. O. J. Came to yesterday on parts of the Mueller Report does not cover the full, unredacted report, which is what democrats have been searching for. They wanted don mcgann, former white House Counsel to testify. It does not cover that. As you heard chairman now per se, he said he expects dom again to come and testify that he expects don mcgann to come and testify. Cover the taxot records, or the current probe into how the Citizenship Question was added to the 2020 census. So you still have a lot of contentious things out there on a lot of different topics. Host so the agreement yesterday with the Justice Department has not created any optimism among democrats that there will be more agreements to come to shake some of this information loose . Guest it certainly is assigned both sides are willing to meet in the middle. Both things that i think the federal courts would like to see if these things get to court. They want to see both sides tried to accommodate each other. The courts dont want to step in the middle of this political dispute between the two branches. If the court sees wrong for saying, you guys did not negotiate this, they may send the parties back to talk about it more. A lot of this is the push and pull of negotiations, end the threats and counter threats. You have this constitutional separation of power struggle over who can oversight who, and how much of the trumpet menstruation has to give up. Host todd ruger, staff writer cq roll call, thank you so much as always for your time . Prime min. May thanks for having me. Host we are taking your phone calls this morning. Todd ruger was talking about the political dispute between the executive and legislative branches, and we will be diving into that at our 8 00 our, fored by the former counsel the house of representatives and former deputy general counsel for the house of representatives to talk about how the process works when there are these disputes between the executive branch and the legislative branch, so stick around for that discussion. Until then, your phone calls in the first hour of the washington journal. Is in myrtle beach, South Carolina on the republican mind. Go ahead. Caller thank you for taking my call. It is interesting to see what the democrats are up to. Unfortunately, they dont get into over. Sour grapes sounds more along the lines of the tune of the day. The sad thing is that the more people i talk to, here is the thing, the more people i talked to, just in casual conversation, these are not academia, intelligentsia type of folks. Percent not the small that are politically active and keep up with all the stuff during the day. They are just average americans, and they are getting sick and tired of all the stuff. They are saying, why dont they leave trump alone . He is doing a great job. This best hehtpiss some he might piss people off, but compared to what trump has done, i mean he is working on the economy, so why dont they just leave him alone . Aspects,e equality which is never there when it comes to equal application of comes toetc. , when it republicans and democrats, would be applied. With all the information the democrats want, all the small notes and everything else, to come out on the Mueller Report, and the grand jury issue, and the whole nine yards, when will republicans who have been waiting for two years, get all the notes from the f. B. I. And the d. O. J. Regarding what they were doing . Are we going to have to wait for the subpoenas to come from investigators in the department of justice . Host i can give you some information on that. Times. Ays washington the Justice Department yesterday give a few more details about the review attorney general william barr has ordered into the governments surveillance of President Trump during the 2016 campaigning. Saying there are too many open questions about why the surveillance was done. Assistant attorney general stephen board of what is saying that President Trump was spied upon, but he did say the u. S. Government and others undertook certain intelligence gathering steps towards the Trump Campaign. The purpose of the review, he said, is to understand the efficacy and propriety of those steps, he said in a letter to the House Judiciary Committee. John durham, the. U. S. Attorney who barr tapped to lead the review will continue to serve as connecticuts top federal prosecutor while also working in washington as lot of this review. That was in the Washington Times today. On the independent line, good morning. Caller good morning, thanks for taking my call. I have 4 points to make. Host let us see if we can do to of them, todd. Caller ok. Was found inarr contempt, it is just a fine. So this is kind of pointless. Mueller, and if he couldnt find any evidence of criminal activity in the whole trump impeachment thing, it should be dropped. Host did you get a chance to watch the hearing yesterday on the Mueller Report . Caller no, i caught a couple of quips. But i dont think this will go anywhere. They cant prove anything, so. Host one of the key witnesses at the hearing yesterday in the Judiciary Committee was john dean former and it said white House Counsel. There is a picture of him there n the wall street journal, here is a portion of his Opening Statement yesterday. Last time i before the committee was in 1974, during the impeachment inquiry of Richard Nixon. Clearly i is not the i am not here as a witness. I accepted the facts to come here today because i hope i can give Historical Perspective on the Mueller Report. In many ways, the Mueller Report is to President Trump what the roadmap, watergate officially titled the grand jury report and recommendation concerning transmission of evidence to the house of representatives, was to president Richard Nixon. Stated differently, special Counsel Robert Mueller has provided this committee with a roadmap. Host that was john dean yesterday at the Judiciary Committee. The Top Republican. On the committee is doug collins. He spoke yesterday about the inclusion of john dean in yesterdays hearing. We are not bringing russia front and center, we are not bringing the president ial election front and center, though i appreciate that chairman reading the letters i have sent him an understanding what we could actually be working on. I am wanting to move forward. However, here we come. Folks. Me great you are wonderful on tv, i could catch her testimony on tv. I dont see the point. I am a republican. Is the dusteve it of this committee to have to come here from those who are not a part of the investigation, who this,t a part of pontificating on things you can do on tv let call of us get a chance to do occasionally. But not here on a hearing. I am reminded of the russia priority issue, because it was brought up when one of our candidates was talking about russia being a threat, and president obama said, the 80s are asking for their Foreign Policy back. Guess what, this committees hearing from their 70s, and they want their star witness back. It is are difficult for one of the witnesses here today, and for many of us who can actually trace the distrust in Government Back to the witness here today. The 70s star of obstruction. In fact, i will take it further. For those of us will have been looking at this for a while, wondering how we got started here, and for those who have heard we discussed that many of howcommittee, on our side, we actually got started here, i believe they have the godfather here today. Mr. Dean. Do we actually use the governmental resources to interfere in other peoples campaigns . Mr. Dean is the godfather of that. They may have even had a picture of you knowing how you do it,. Host you will want to watch that hearing in its entirety, it can go to our website, cspan. Org and search on top of the page. Just type in dean, and you can find the testimony. On the democrat line, good morning. Caller good morning, how are you doing . Host i am doing well, vivian. Caller i watched the hearing yesterday. John dean knows that the republicans and trump are lying about the situation with russia. The Mueller Report. And when he was on tv, he stated clearly that he didnt have the to do it must, but he turned it over to congress that that he didnt have the authority to do it, but he turned it over to congress, who it. D do republican had control of the congress and the senate for two years to stop this with trump. They let it slide and they let everything go. But when all the blame got old, it is on the republicans for letting trump do this to our country. They sat there yesterday howling and yelling at john dean. John dean was really calm. He has been through this. He knows there lies. Im asking my congress, dont let them get away with this. Dont let them through a finger at you like they dont care what you do. Please take action and go through this. On tv so we can decide for ourselves. Thank you very much. Host vivienne, you mentioned republicans and their comments on john dean, and pres. Trump. He also had comments yesterday about john dean testifying. He was at the white house, with the indy 500 champion, when he was asked about john deans testimony. Here is what he said. , ister president there any reaction to john dean testifying . Pres. Trump john dean has been a loser for many years. Theve been watching him on networks that are not really trumporiented. He has been a loser for a long time. He was disbarred and went to prison. Other than that, he is doing a great job. Host that was President Trump yesterday at the white house. Getting your thoughts of this morning. 10 00 a. M. , that is when the house is expected to gavel in. Legislative business at noon. We are expecting votes around 1 30, the house Going Forward with a vote to give its Committee Chairs the powers to go to federal court to enforce subpoenas to obtain other documents and pursue their investigations against the Trump Administration. That is happening today. We will be covering it on cspan. Frank in kerrville, texas on the independent line. Good morning. Caller good morning. All i have to say is that i saw the meeting yesterday on cspan, i watched the House Committee. I am truly amazed. At how rude grown people can be to each other. These are men who are supposed to be gentlemen. Who know the english language and can talk to each other in a civil manner but they play games, fight each other with procedure. It is a disgrace to the American People and to america to watch these people in the house of representatives. Maybe we should throw them all out and bring people who have open minds and a sense of fairness. And a sense of civility. Thank you, very much. Host before you go, who do you think was rude yesterday . Who in particular are you talking about . Caller oftentimes come, the democrats wanted to take a vote, they wanted a procedure, a recount, there were three or four republicans who were privy rude really rude in the mans face, trying to keep him from succeeding. They are very rude to the democrats. Woulddnt believe people behave like this. I just dont understand. That we are Civilized Society now. Host frank, thank you. Suzanne from georgia, a democrat. Go ahead. Caller thank you. I have quite a few complaints about trump. He is in either go heent and you legal russiaal interfered in our elections. Me, robertt believe mueller even said so. Proven fact. The republicans need to wake up trumps [beep]g host a treasonous [beep] i heard you talk about the Mueller Report. Have you read the Mueller Report . No, i have not, but i have listened quite a bit to what is going on. The republicans host the Washington Post today taking their estimation of this hearing yesterday and the idea report,ng the mueller the 448page redacted report that is available. Democrats have been trying to highlight the report. They are aware that most americans are unfamiliar with the findings, and they say that that is the main purpose of who discussedan, the similarities between what he saw between trump and nixon, particularly on whether they justice. D that is according to the wrapup of the hearing yesterday from the Washington Post. We are getting your wrapup, and also a view of what is happening today on capitol hill. The key vote on the subpoena against the attorney general and white House Counsel don mcgahn. A key step that is expected to take race today on the house floor that take place today on the house floor. From ohio, good morning. Caller good morning. A couple of comments. I would like to know, since we have erred he spent 40 million on this russia thing, how much more are we letting it cost us now for the democrats to do what they are doing . They call and complain and talk about russia. The one thing i have noticed is that when obama was running for reelection, he sat with a givean and told him to putin a message, that after his election, he would have more leeway. So, in my opinion, he was a sitting president. To me, that is total collusion and. Treason you dont sit there as a president and running for reelection and talk to a russian like that. Besides that, how much more interaction did he have with the russians to get him elected that nobody knows about . And you dont hear anything about it because the democrats are not going to say one word about anything. I am about to give up, because i dont think they have backbone enough to bring anything up. Host what are your thoughts on how President Trump has dealt with russia and Vladimir Putin in particular . Caller i think he is doing a great job. If people would leave him alone. This man was put in there for a reason. This country under obama was going straight to hell. Nobody cares about the fact that things are getting better. Host and a in ohio. , from new york on the independent line. Caller . I havent read the report, but i followed it closely. Donald trump is a disgrace to , and also,ace, ok some of the republicans like jim jordan, collins, and the other guy from florida, these guys are a disgrace. The people who voted for these guys are also a disgrace to the human race. Al, the florida congressman, think you are referring to matt gaetz. Caller i dont know how he got elected. Host what exchange in particular are you concerned about . Caller he is partisan as hell. He has been on cuomos show and everything. You could people have to Pay Attention to what is going on. Host that was al in new york this morning. We are taking your thoughts this morning throughout this first segment of the washington journal. On the republican line, 2027488001, democrats, t027488000, independenc s 2027488002,. I seek consent, to enter into the record a december 30, two thousand five essay written by mr. John dean entitled george w. Bush as then you Richard Nixon, both wiretapped individually and in peach o and in impeachable. Dean, how many president s have you accused of being Richard Nixon . I actually wrote a book about mr. Bush and mr. Cheney. Did you make money on that book . There was a very successful book. How much money did you make on it . I am sorry, i have no idea. Was it 1 million . I have no idea. How much money do you make from cnn. Chairman nadler i think i will object to these questions. Mr. Dean has made a Cottage Industry out of accusing president s of acting like Richard Nixon. I would like to know how much money he makes based on making these accusations and exploiting them for his own economic nadler mr. Gates, appreciate you were not born at the time this hall happened this all happened. It is not by choice that i have done a lot of this. It is that i have been dragged into this. Who forced you to accuse george w. Bush of being Richard Nixon . Who forced me . It was right after i had spent 10 years in a lawsuit knocking down false statements about what my role had and had not been. Let us speak to the truth or falsity of statements. The have personal knowledge regarding the truth or falsity of a single fact in the Mueller Report . The first thing i said, i am not here as a fact witness. You are here to provide Historical Context . Exactly. History, youhout accuse president s of acting like Richard Nixon and you make money off of it. Those i act like those who act like him, i pointed out. Host that was the exchange between matt gaetz and john dean at yesterdays Judiciary Committee hearing. A busy day on capitol hill. We are getting your thoughts and comments on this day. We are also looking for your tweets and facebook posts as well, here is just a sampling of them. F Jeffrey Allen saying the democrats are digging themselves a larger hole with voters. This whole thing has been a witchhunt, the media and democrats conspiring to take down our president. They have failed and he refused to let it go. Bill saying, why stop with attorney general barr and don mcgahn, they should subpoena trump himself and let the courts fight it out. Another viewer saying, the congress has the constitutional right to the full report. We saw that deal announced yesterday between the Justice Department and the Judiciary Committee for some of the underlying documents in the Mueller Report. That deal averting a criminal contempt vote that the Judiciary Committee was moving for against william barr. This other vote taking place today has to do with pursuing subpoenas and investigations in federal court. We will be talking about that throughout our show today. Bills on thatng sometime after 1 00 this afternoon. The debate around that resolution expected to start around noon. Rosette is waiting in new york. A democrat. Caller good morning. Please dont cut me off. Im calling because trump should be impeached. No onesides that fact, seems to bring up enough anyway the deferments hes taken since he is so patriotic and he talks about john mccain. Its terrible. Had, yesterday, when they the Court Business going on, i found the republicans, basically three of them, were very rude to john dean. Concernedwere you about an particular . Ander that jordan guy another young man that wasnt the back in the time when business with john dean was going on. They were very rude. I guess thats par for course for being a follower of trump. No onethe world is hering to put these democrats being Strong Enough as far as im concerned with the republicans win trump is telling these people not to adhere to the subpoenas. Why arent they putting them in jail . Why are they saying we will give them a fine, which they never pay . Why not give them jail time . Host do you watch a lot of Committee Hearings . Caller i do sometimes host was the level of rudeness different than what youve seen in other Committee Hearings . If so, what do you think was different . Caller that jordan guy was rude across the board. A couple of hearings ive seen him speak on, hes just a rude person. I guess thats just the way he is. Ive watched a few times when he is questioned people has question people. Hes very, very rude. I dont know if trump is paying him or whatever is going on, but i know hes one of the rudest people ive seen. Joyce, as is republican in vero beach, florida. Caller good morning. The main thing everyone is missing here is that the congress, both the house and the the, and doj have conducted investigations the fbi and doj have conducted investigations. The previous four have been concluded and all four found no collusion, no obstruction. This is costing the taxpayers a fortune. None of this money is going to get paid back by all of these partisan, criminal people working in our government who have attempted to falsely remove was president after he elected by 63 million americans for president. There has to be accountability. We have to get the corruption gut the corruption in our government. Go to www. Cspan. Org and you can research all of these people, all of these investigations theyve conducted, there is , they gettch. Org documents under the freedom of opentheboo act, even ks. Com if you want to see what theyve spent your money on. Thats the only money we operate on. This is corruption. Real and America Needs to wake up, stop listening to the news media and learn how to do their own research to find out the truth about these people who are running our country. Host on Robert Muellers conclusion, you say no obstruction was part of what you point twomocrats Robert Muellers comments during that press conference, if we had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. That is there concern. Their concern. What do you say about those comments that Robert Mueller made in that press conference . Caller there should be absolutely no concern. The conclusion, because mueller failed to do his duty and make was madeusion himself by the attorney general and rosenstein. They determined no obstruction. That is closed. Mueller has disgraced himself. He did not do his job. Host spencer in maine. Independent. Good morning. Caller good morning. First of all, i would like to would like usats to believe that anybody who corrupt donald trump is and a bad person. Thats what they are doing to attorney general barr. Is corruptian agent, for serving his attorney general. You can remember the cavanaugh hearings, the behavior of those withe left, coming in moveon. Org and different activist groups chasing senators down the halls of congress, screaming, disrupting, senators accusing, smearing. Thats the state of our politics. If were talking about this we are talkingif about this foolishness, we are not talking about the democrat issues, whether its late term abortions or raising your taxes, they dont have to talk about that. When they cornered jeff flake in the elevator, the cavanaugh hearings were out of control Brett Kavanaugh hearings were out of control. I dont think theres any comparison. Trump bad, trump bad, and we dont have to talk about the issues. Host yorktown, pennsylvania. A democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. Ive been watching this whole russia thing from the beginning, from the time that he was making candidacy to write now right now. Everything trump is doing is so out of the norm and so a disgrace to america that i know for 62 years that its really heartbreaking. The hearings from the beginning to the end yesterday. I used to think that we had a great country that both sides would Work Together and tell the truth to show america what is wrong with america and what is right with america. We have a president that stands and kicksld stage everyone from mccain to the world leaders. Our democracy has to be working together. With these hearings, with the states doing their jobs and the federal government doing their jobs, showing the people what is going wrong right now. The democrats need to do a better job or the republicans need to do a better job of showing the truth. My heart breaks for america right now. Ive never seen it like this. Host debbie in pennsylvania. Madison, maine. This is stuart. A republican. Good morning. Caller good morning. I hear all the parties barraining about getting in to testify again. Yet, we have the people in real time while trump was running for office, they were subpoenaed by congress, nobody showed. Lynch was subpoenaed and she never showed up to congress. Now, we have a democratic congress. Dont the democrats say lets bring these people in . Back when trump and clinton were yet,ng for office, and nobody has mentioned these names once. As far as running 40 million on the investigation for 2. 5 years, the democrats want to spend more of the taxpayers dollar. If they want to continue this investigation, why dont they put up their money from their parties and continue as long as they want, but if they come up empty, they pay for it . This is ridiculous. We have a president whos gotten the unemployment down. Obama said it wouldnt go below 5 . Yet, hes got it down to 3 . Hes done a fantastic job when its come to the economy. We could have bridges and roads that would supply us for building new factories, but continuing the way they are doing this investigation they should be working for us. Host i want to go back to what you talked about, you brought up the fast and furious investigation during the Obama Administration and the subpoena fight there, the documents and the eventual federal court cases that were involved in that process. That process was just settled last month. This is the story from politico. The seven year legal battle over records related to gunrunning was publicly announced on , may 8, just as similar clashes continued to intensify between the house and Trump Administration. Deal ends a lawsuit the House Oversight and Government Committee filed in 2012. We are seeing a vote on the house floor today to allow Committee Chairmen to pursue their subpoenas again in federal court when it comes to investigating the Trump Administration. Heresesolution 430, what it does. It authorizes the Dictionary Committee Judiciary Committee to pursue civil action and enforcement in federal court barre subpoenas issued to and mcgann. Democrats have three of the five seats on the legal advisory group. The Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group can act according to this actionion for future they are going to authorize. Res. 430. The debate expected to take place when the house meets for legislative business at noon today. Thoughts onng your washington journal amid another busy day on capitol hill. Tina calling in from the bronx. An independent. Maker i just wanted to one point that most of the people dont understand. 40 million, a terrible amount of money that was spent. About 300 got back million just from Paul Manafort. This is not about wasting money. These people are criminals. Watching thetop regular news, stop watching fox tv. Thank you very much. Vivian in is spotsylvania, virginia. A democrat. Good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. The last guy is correct. All the money they got back from Paul Manafort will cover the Mueller Report and more. It is said. Sad. You had when women say 63 Million People voted for trump had one woman say 63 Million People voted for trump. 328 million in this country that 63 million is minuscule. You had benghazi going on for months. How much did that cost us . The National Security guy under awful. Its they keep talking about hes doing a good job. Gas is up, food is up, copay up, insurance up what has he done . Rent is up. Thank god we own hours. We owed taxes. We havent owed taxes in years. You have lost. You have lost money. Whats wrong with these people . Cant they count . Its pitiful. It seems like all of them are on some type of drug, they cant remember what they hear. Host vivian and a couple of callers bringing up the cost of the Mueller Probe. As of early 2019, the official cost was about 25 million. Probeday noting that the saw some asset forfeitures and other fines that were levied that brought money into the federal government. So far, Robert Muellers expenses totaling 25 million, but the forfeitures could push the investigation into the black, citing 28. 6 million in fines and forfeitures brought in, 26 million alone coming from Paul Manafort. Michael alsoand also withchael cohen fines imposed against them. Thats from usa today earlier this year back in march. Martin in new jersey. A republican. Go ahead. Caller thank you for taking my call. Born i was around when nixon was president. Ive been watching since the beginning. I consider myself a fair person. Ive not seen any witness or anybody come by who has stated influenced by was the russians. Ihave yet to see one person, have yet to see any person bring it up. Show one person who boat was influenced by the russians whose vote was influenced by the russians. Knew they everyone were either for Hillary Clinton or trump. Nobody was influenced. Lewis nadler,rome i think he needs to go to psychoanalysis. I think jerry nadler is still mad about his mom losing that farm thats what he does for a living. He has deep rooted issues. Host did you have any concerns about jerry nadler before he became the chairman of the Dussehra Committee the Judiciary Committee . Caller no, sir. He was born and raised in brooklyn. Hes the type of kid that got beat up a lot. Hes got issues. I like russia. I have no problems with putin or any of these people. They were our allies in world war ii. The communist subversive, obama, his mother, when she went to studied the russian language nobody was studying the russian language back in that time. Obama is a communist subversive. Hes the one that got put in there. Host tom in elkton, maryland. An independent. Go ahead. Caller thank you for taking michael. A couple of things that strike me the number of people that havent read the Mueller Report. Thank you for taking my call. The number of people that had not read that, it amazes me. Its a very interesting read. I couldnt put it down. The day it came out, i read it all that night and the next morning, i finished it. The amazing stuff this guy has crimes nixons the mueller until gets before the Judiciary Committee, you are not going to change the minds of the republican senators. Once he is there and he tells did ple what this amend man host Robert Mueller said that the report would be his testimony. He doesnt want to testify because he wouldnt go beyond the report. Change you think would if he went before the committee if hes only going to say whats in the report . Host because nobody has read the report. When they see him testify everyone watches tv. Their mouths will drop open. I would say just read the report. It is all there. Its the fact that nobody has read it. Host this is carol out of st. Louis, missouri. Democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. Why you didnt show any questions from democrats. Hearing have the entire available on our website. We played some of that interaction between gates and john dean. Thingn watch the entire how about putting some of it on words to deans credit where its to deans credit . Host we want to hear more of your phone calls in your reaction. And your reaction. Getting your thoughts on all sides of the aisle. Brookshire, texas. A republican. Go ahead. Caller good morning. I believe the democrats are wasting taxpayer money with this investigation. If bob mueller didnt come up theyanything, why are trying to find more . Im praying for this nation. Its falling apart. Communists, we have socialists and we have terrorists in the Democratic Party running this nation. Lou in charleston, South Carolina. A democrat. Caller good morning. My name is lou owens. Im from charleston, South Carolina. I called to make a comment. Im 74 years old, ive seen president s come and go. I used to vote republican. I used to vote for what i thought was the correct thing for the country. Lets take power away from these republicans. Thats just my opinion, but the fact is, donald trump has done things that people need to come to grips with. I hope and pray that we will get our Education System to teach more American History and civics. Ive been listening this morning, ive heard some things ive never heard before in my life. I haventeport read the whole report, but i did read some of it. , what i sawan side was a bunch of grown men jumping , gates, is and that dont know where he gets this from. Its horrendous that we have people in our leadership right now that cant see that with the congress is doing right now is their job. Its oversight under article one. We should allow our congress to do what it does. Donald trump is running around claiming hes been exonerated. If you are not guilty of collusion, let me tell you something, put the report out so we can see it. Since youyou testify believe you are exonerated . Host the president has spoken this morning, hes quoting Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and some of his previous comments about the Mueller Report. President trump quoting Lindsey Graham, saying mueller has spoken, he found no collusion. Is tryingatic house to destroy the trump presidency, which has been a tremendous success. They can talk to john dean until the cows come home. We are not doing anything in the senate. We are going to harden our infrastructure against 2020. Thats after william barr testified before the senate Judiciary Committee. Lou in charleston, South Carolina. Go ahead. Did we just chat with you . Robert is waiting in frostburg, maryland. An independent. Caller good morning. Veteran, what i see in my country right now is disturbing me very much. Abraham lincoln said a nation divided against itself cannot stand. People are entrenched in their positions. No one is going to change their minds. In my lifetime, ive seen communism fail, ive seen german fascism fail, ive seen , ive seen fail fascism fail, just in my lifetime. Haveone of these empires been led to ruin by a stubborn leader that can convince rightwing people to follow them blindly. Empire was led by a stubborn, mule headed leader. If we dont get it together and start following the advice of sysses as grant ulysses fought in war. This has to stop. Otherwise, this country will be like the rest of those failed empires. It will go down. Host stick around. Plenty more to come today. Up next, we will be joined by irvin nathan and William Pittard , who had Previous Service in the general counsels office. Over judicial oversight versus executive privilege. The house debates a resolution today giving the Judiciary Committee approval to sue attorney general william barr and don mcgann in federal court to compel them to provide congress with information related to the Mueller Report investigation. The measure also lets other democratically controlled House Committees sue Trump Administration officials for testimony and documents as long as they get approval from a bipartisan house leadership committee. Watch live Coverage Today starting at noon eastern on cspan. Cspan. Org andn listen on the free cspan radio app. And recently topped the New York Times new and noteworthy column. From the new york journal, the president s makes a fast engrossing read. Gift readeat about how noted president ial historians rank the best and worst chief executives. Explore the life events that shaped our leaders, the challenges they faced and the legacies theyve left behind. President s is available in hardcover or as an ebook today. The house will be in order. For 40 years, she spent has been providing american unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court and Public Policy events from washington, d. C. And around the country. 1979, cspanble in is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. Years, cspan has been providing americans unfiltered coverage of congress. Www. Cspan. Or washington jol continues. Host irvin nathan was the houses general counsel William Pittard served as acting and deputy general counsel. On the congressional oversight aspect, can you explain what the house is looking to do with this vote today . And why they are looking to pursue their investigation in federal court . Whats the advantage of doing that . One of thetart, fundamental jobs of congress is to do oversight over the executive branch to make sure the people are happy with the work the executive is doing. From time to time, congress is dissatisfied with the cooperation it gets from the executive branch. Particularly in the last decade or so, its weve seen Congress Going to court host why do this . Why not hold a formal contempt about . Guest they are not mutually exclusive. In the cases where Civil Enforcement has been pursued in courts, its been preceded by contempt votes in the house. The house has a number of options when someone violates a subpoena and refuses to appear. The house could arrest the individual, could send out a sergeant in arms and put them somewhere in the capital. They could arrest them. 19th andused in the early 20th century. It hasnt been used since the early 20th century. The second option is to refer the matter to the department of justice for prosecution, which is what happens when a private citizen is in contempt of the congress. If its part of the administration, they are being advised by the department of justice, they are not likely to prosecute. Holdinge the option of. Them in contempt they can be arrested by the u. S. Marshal, which is a serious matter, but one that would have been approved by a court. In these matters where the administration has refused to comply with the subpoena, there is the legal issue that is involved. The administration claims there is immunity for white house officials. There is no merit to that argument. When there is a legal divide between the executive branch and the house, its appropriate to go to court to get a legal resolution. Resorting to the courts is appropriate in that particular circumstance. Host that step taking place 430y, House Resolution authorizing Committee Chairs to pursue civil action and enforcement of their subpoenas in federal court. We will be covering that on the house floor throughout the day on cspan. If that passes and this process starts to go through the federal courts, what would be the role of the general counsel in that process . Guest the general counsel thelly is litigating lawyer for the house. On occasion, the house has hired outside counsels office has directed that litigation. S only been around for before that, the department of justice represented the house. You had this growing sense that the department of justice is an executive branch entity and might be looking out for executive branch interests. The house and senate develop their own general counsel office. Host you were appointed by democratic speaker and served when both democrats and republicans occupied the white house. When should the legislative branch conduct oversight . Guest i dont think theres any time when they should not conduct oversight. Its an inherent response ability of the legislative overh to conduct oversight all government operations, including the executive branch, including the judiciary. Theres multiple reasons for it. One of them, the obligation to inform the public. Theres a duty to inform that the house has. Legislate,rmation to you have to have subpoena power. The Supreme Court has routinely upheld that notion. Its an inherent power of the legislature to subpoena witnesses and documents in order to get information necessary to fulfill the oversight function, in form and function, legislative function. The subpoenas are enforceable and they apply to everyone. Host you were appointed by a republican. Do you agree with that reading . Guest i do. Thats not particularly controversial. There is a real value in congressional oversight in terms of informing the public. In order for congress to do its job, one of the fundamental things that congress does is legislate, obviously, and in order to legislate, Congress Needs to be informed. The Supreme Court has said repeatedly that Congress Wont know everything it needs to know through its own devices. It needs to be able to compel others for information. In the senate, it may need particular information to go about deciding whether to confirm anemone. Obviously, impeachment is talked about these days. Entity. Er to confirm an guest i want to make one thing clear. I was appointed by speaker counsel ishe general a nonpartisan position. It represents individual members there matter in which position is implicated. I represented a number of republicans on issues they had. If they were sued by third parties, we defended them. Carrying out the institutional prerogatives of the house as opposed to a partisan matter. Host is there a more conservative way of interpreting those institutional prerogatives and more liberal ways of doing that . Is there no daylight between an general counsel appointed under a democrat or republican . Guest you come up with similar approaches. The function is to protect the institution of the house. Up tonstitution was set have checks and balances. There is a tension that exists that was intended between the legislative branch and executive branch. When the executive branch is disregarding the legislative branch, its incumbent upon the house to protect its interests. Therefore, the house general counsel is protecting the as ansts of the house institutional matter to take it to court and resolve legal issues and get information the house needs. Host is there a point where oversight can cross the line into harassment or fishing expeditions . Guest there can be a line, obviously, but its a far and remote line. There is a presumption that congress is acting within its official prerogatives. The courts respect that. Unless it is blatantly clear that there is no legitimate legislative purpose, no legitimate oversight purpose, subpoenas need to be enforced. I do agree in terms of the legal matter. Does congress have the power to demand certain information . They have a very broad power to do that. Anything that could be relevant to their legislative work is something they can demand. Theres a separate question about what they should demand. We are seeing that play out to some degree now with President Trump insisting that special counsel mueller seemed to do a lot of work for a lot of time with a lot of witnesses on certain subjects. Isnt that enough . Democrats rightfully are saying we have the power to continue to ask questions. Republicans are saying you may have that power, but its not a good use of resources, its a waste of time. Are making thes congress has the with to do this i agree mr. Nathan on that. Congress certainly does have the power to do that. And irviniam pittard , we are talking about congressional oversight and the work of the general counsel of the house. Republicans, 2027488001. Democrats, 2027488000. Independents, 2027488002. If you have questions about how these investigations are pursued, now would be a good time to call in. Richard is up first out of california. Democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning, everyone. Fundamental checks and balances in the government is one of the most important aspects of the constitution. We had a revolution against taking just for that against a king just for that reason. We were not being represented and we were being ruled. He wouldntreport, recommend indictments because of the fact that you are not supposed to indict a sitting president , which has not been ruled upon by the Supreme Court, as far as i know. Theres so much here in the Mueller Report. Unfortunately, mueller did not give a report on the report. Whoone appointed by trump advocated himself in that skewed, almost lied about the report and what it said. Hegive the impression that had been exonerated, that is way far from the truth. Collusion is not a crime. Collusion is a behavior that can lead to conspiracy. He said there wasnt enough to prove conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt. They did not interview trump directly. Host lets take a second to talk about it. Guest i agree with a lot of what the caller has said. Though, in response to bills point, its not a waste of time for the house to hold hearings to demonstrate what is in the Mueller Report and go further from it. Thats why we have the Judiciary Committee showing subpoenas to don mcgann and other fact witnesses. Its important to lay out for the American People whats in the Mueller Report. Theres a lot of misinformation caused by mr. Barrs statements, his letter and press conference. Its very important and the house has an Important Role to weigh out those facts to show the American People what is in the report, which is not an exoneration of the president. Some of the underlying information from the Mueller Report the Judiciary Committee has been seeking for a while does the general counsel get involved in those kinds of deals . Guest it can be involved. Its up to the committee to decide who is going to represent it in connection with negotiations. I dont know exactly what the current general counsel the current general counsel is doing an excellent job. Hes extremely busy with a lot of litigation against this administration, which is telling with party not to comply how subpoenas and refusing to enforce federal law in certain circumstances, including the obamacare statute, where the house is seeking to intervene to protect millions of americans. The house general counsel is extremely busy in litigation. I dont know that they are involved in the negotiations. Its possible. Its up to the chairman of the committee to decide whos going to represent them. Host when that litigation takes place, what court does this go to . What judge takes it up . Guest most certainly it will be here in federal court in d. C. , where the house or Relevant Committee will sue to enforce subpoenas. It was a savvy move following up on the point you just made about the negotiation yesterday and suing tohe house is enforce a subpoena and the response on the others is a , we saw thatrtion play out in the fast and furious litigation. It went on for years and years. Force thelong time to department of justice to turnover the documents. The court did eventually require producing most of those. It leaves some cleaner, quicker questions where congress can move to force subpoenas. The witnesses have flatly refused. Thats a question mr. Nathan in the context of the u. S. Attorney firings 810 years ago now. Courts will feel more comfortable saying thats clearly improper, its illegal not to show up in the face of that subpoena. Your recent column from the Washington Post from the end of may trump has the clock on his side. Do the courts care how long the cases take . A lot of the members of Congress Want that decision as soon as possible. Guest some courts do. Where theent case Trump Administration told their accountants not to provide judgeation, the district in the District Of Columbia expedited the proceeding. He consolidated the motion with the merits of the matter will be heard in its entirety sooner. He issued a decision with a week thats within a week. The house has to move expeditiously as well so that there is a need for urgency on this matter. Demonstrate to the courts i hope the courts will recognize that the house needs this information now, not after the 2020 election. Court proceedings can take a long time. The judges have a number of ways to shorten the periods for briefing, to have oral arguments, to eliminate the need for life witnesses through affidavit and a number of other devices. They can move quickly. This administration is attempting to run out the clock. They are raising objections that have been resolved by the courts. That theno arguments they cannotaides object on a question by question basis. They have to appear and answer questions. They are refusing to do it. They are hoping to delay the court proceedings. That will be the test for the house and for the judiciary to move things along expeditiously so the American People can get information in time to make decisions about whats going on in the congress. Host north carolina. Republican line. Sue, good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. I was watching cspan this morning. Like therats dont republicans to bring up anything this mess started when hillary bought and paid for that dossier. The best president s weve had and kennedy, Ronald Reagan donald trump. Host that is sue in north carolina. This is george out of new jersey. An independent. Caller great show. With these hearings taking place, it is so obvious that barr is committing perjury and obstruction. Right there is the main problem the American People are choosing sides in a game of liars. With this clear perjury going on in front of the American People, we are doing nothing about it they have the right to arrest these people for perjury. Why dont they do it . Is it for their pensions that they dont do this . At least make an effort to uphold your oath to arrest in fronteaking the law of everybodys faces. Guest congress does refer witnesses from time to time to the department of justice for investigation and potential prosecution when Congress Things the witness has lied to a witnesse thinks the has lied to a committee or obstructed the committees work. Clemens was referred for allegedly lying about performanceenhancing drugs use. He was later acquitted. Way. N play out that where is the attorney general of the United States, the head of the department of justice is accused of lying, obstructing, you have the difficult situation it would be shocking to think the Department Justice will be prosecuting their head guest it is an executive function to arrest and prosecute individuals. Normally, if perjury is committed before congress, there is usually a referral to the department of justice and they make a decision. They can prosecute. It is a felony. Congress a contempt of to engage in perjury before congress. Blatant, ifry is the disrespect for the house or the senate is so obvious, the house and senate have internal powers to punish. They can hold the individual in contempt, they can have a hearing in the chamber of the house to find that there was perjury, demonstrating disrespect and contempt for the congress. After a finding of contempt, the sergeant and arms could arrest sergeant in arms could arrest the person. If they absolve themselves of theyor Congress Ends certainly have the power to call out perjury. Ive seen a number of members whove also said some witnesses are not being truthful. Its a very rare thing. Host when is the last time that they enforced that . Guest in the 1920s. Theteapot dome situation, relatives of the attorney general were subpoenaed. They were arrested. , theyhey were arrested could file a petition to the courts to have their arrest challenged. That went all the way to the Supreme Court. The congress was vindicated in that case. They said the arrest was appropriate because of the refusal to comply with the subpoena. The person had to remain in jail until they appeared. Anysame would apply to blatant disrespect for the subpoena, which includes, in my view, perjury. You come and blatantly lie, that shows disrespect for the house. Host grover is next in virginia. A democrat. Good morning. Caller there should be some type of way the senators or congressman they work for the people. Why do we pay them if they refuse to answer our questions . Guest that goes to the fundamental frustration that congress often has with the administration. It flips from time to time. The i was in the house, house was controlled by republicans and the administration was controlled by a democrat. Democrats. The house was at the time quite frustrated by their responses we were getting from the Obama Administration. Of course, now you are seeing a democratic untold house quite frustrated with the responses from the republican administration. Host does the senate have a general counsel . Guest yes it does. Host how often does the house general counsel work with the senate general counsel . Guest they are very collegial. There is communication between the two. There is a longstanding republican mayor and a longstanding democrat. When the senate switches, they just switch nameplates on their offices. They dont even change offices. And they work very well together. In my opinion and in my experience, they work well with the general counsel of the house. They are a repository of information in history. Host does a judge normally give more deference perhaps to a case in which the house and senate general counsel come together and argue . Guest it doesnt happen that often because the senate doesnt generally get the authority to go to court as frequently as the house does. Host why not . Guest , because of the roles of the senate which require a greater majority to authorize because of the rules of the senate, which require a greater majority to authorize litigation. Because of the organization in the house, when the Majority Party is there, they can authorize the house general counsel to litigate. So you find much more litigation conducted by the house. Though, there have been cases where both the house and senate have come together, and i think the courts do give great. Eference to that situation guest one circumstance in which you would see a role for the house and the senate, if the house has issued a subpoena and is looking to enforce its own subpoena. And the other half of congress doesnt have a role, one place both houses certainly have the role is when you talk about impeachment. I go back to the previous callers questionnaire. If you are particularly frustrated with the response from a particular official in the administration, mr. Nathan talked about one thing you might is hold a contempt hearing i talked about one thing you could do is referred to Law Enforcement. A third thing you might do is proceed down the impeachment path not of the president , but, impeachment of a particular Administration Official. It is just another tool that congress has that involves both the house and senate. Guest it would require a two thirds vote by the senate to result in conviction a very difficult thing to do in a polarized or partisan atmosphere. Host how involved is the general counsel in a impeachment proceedings, whether it is a president or another Administration Official . Thet that would depend on desire of the house leadership and the committee that is involved. I was involved heavily when i was general counsel in an impeachment proceeding, which resulted in a unanimous vote of impeachment of a federal judge who had been accused and then proved by the senate of taking bribes while on the bench. He was convicted and removed. By the senate. In that case, the committee asked the general counsels office to be involved. During the impeachment y went to court to try to block the impeachment and when they did, it was the general counsel that responded and got the case of dismissed. Host it as just after 8 30 on the east coast. Ofare talking about the role the general counsel of the house of representatives and oversight. Al joining us is irvin nathan, former general House Counsel pittard,iam as well. Ouse counsel tom out of new york on the republican mind, go ahead. Caller good morning. I would just like to say that these two guys you got here, they dont know anything about what they are talking about, they really dont. [laughter] host why is that, tom . Because they are lying. All these charges are trumped up by the communist party, the democrats. They could not win at the election and now they are all mad. Look at them, look at their faces. You can tell. Host got your point. From littleton, indiana, democrat line. Good morning. Caller good morning. Cspan. U for the caller that just called need to read the Mueller Report. There is so much in their and i hope that there is so much a in there and i hope our friend can get out. I am concerned about our country. Conned ands people they need to wake up and realize they are being conned. Look what he has done. None of the promises he has promised. Please make our country. Save it. I hope you guys can save it. Host that was lindsay out of indiana. Nathan, two different views from the callers today. Role of then on the courts and the Legal Process and made that kind of debate and discussion about politics. Guest in terms of the courts, my view is that legal issues are presented in the courts need to act quickly to resolve those legal issues to allow the house to carry on its constitutional functions. With respect to the constitutional function, as to whether those callers, a think it is extremely important that the house layout in public with witnesses, on live testimony on television, exactly what is in the report. There has been spain about that, the attorney general made his statements about what he thinks is in the report, the president has done the same, thirdparty witnesses did that before the Judiciary Committee, but no one will be it were to do it as well as bob mueller. I agree with the earlier caller that mr. Mueller was paid for by the american public. He has done a 448page report which is very dense reading and i think it is important that he up the a at the judiciary inmittee and explain, layout plain english what they found in the investigation. I think it is also important that the witnesses he identified like mr. Mcgann and others come and testify and speak clearly so the American People will know exactly what is in the mueller did,t, what this president and it is important that they also understand what the president is doing currently to obstruct the investigation of the house. That is the role of the court, to eliminate obstruction and allow the house to carry out its constitutional responsibility. Guest i dont know that i disagree with that, in terms of the role of the court. I think the role of the court is a limited one, to allow congress to get the information that it is seeking by subpoena and then republicans are perfectly right publict in the court of opinion about whether this is a good use of resources or not. That is the politics of it. ,re the democrats overreaching or are these important issues . That is what is supposed to play out with the in congress and within the committees. The court simply has a job to facilitate and make sure that can happen. Guest let me say, i think both the democrats and republicans have an obligation to carry out the constitutional responsibility to do oversight and to get witnesses to appear, to cooperate, and to get information out. I think where the report is in divide is in interpreting what happened. But to have witnesses there to give the facts, i think both sides have an obligation to encourage that and to get the information out so the public can interpret the information they can argue about it,. But they cannot allow the stonewalling so that no one knows exactly what happened. Host in terms of the role of the court can we talk about when the Court Decides it doesnt want to get involved in the politics of a certain issue . There was a case from earlier this year, the District Court throughout the House Democrat lawsuit looking for an injunction against President Trumps use of emergency border wall funding. This is what the judges ruling said to the House Congress has several political errors in its quiver to counter threats to its power. Intervening in a contest between the house and the president over the border wall, will intend will the court in a our contest nearly at the height of Political Tension and would risk damaging the Public Confidence that the court is a function of the judicial branch. When does the court decided to hear these cases and when will it not . Guest it is a judgment. I think the judge was wrong about this. In the Obama Administration, the house led by republican john boehner, took the president to it was aiming that violation of the appropriations clause come out that congress purse. Power of the there was a claim that money was being spent those not appropriated for insurance payments in obamacare. The republican judge, a judge appointed by president bush upheld the houses lawsuit and the house had standing to bring the suit and was considering that before it was result. This decision was made by a judge recently appointed by President Trump. It runs it not only contrary to the decision by previous judge collier in the obamacare case, to the runs counter decision in District Court in oakland where a federal District Court agreed with the representations of the plaintiffs that there is a violation of the appropriations clause of the constitution, and has entered a preliminary injunction against using any of this money that was declared in the emergency, which had been rejected by both houses of congress in the appropriation request for building the wall. Decision does not really have much weight, because the injection already exists. But it is pretty ridiculous where environmental groups in california were able to stop the spending, but the house, which sought to stop the spending which had not been authorized by it, and which impacted his ability of the power of the purse, is thrown out. Im advised that the house has appealed the decision and i expect a very different result in the court of appeals. I think it will be reversed, and the house will be allowed to move ahead with this lawsuit. Guest while i agree with mr. Nathan was to whether as to whether the d. C. Court should have considered this lawsuit by the house, both of us joined in an amicus brief but argued that point in that case, that the house should be able to bring this case to court. That the house is a party that is injured in a very substantial way, itself, because it has the power of the purse. It is supposed to be the house. That appropriates money. Is the, the allegation administration has gone off and went money without an appropriation from the house. So i agree on that. I do think that this is an evolving area of law, theyre just havent been a lot of cases in which i believe this is the second case in which the house or the senate has sued to enforce an appropriations power. The other one was the one nathan just discussed, where Republican House sued democratic , saying, you have gone off and spent money on the Affordable Care act that we did not appropriate. And their, just as mr. Nathan said, the court did find the house had standing to bring the lawsuit. And indeed, the administration was found to have acted unlawfully. Guest i think it is very unfortunate that it depends on who the judge is and who the parties are and what the Political Parties are. You have a situation here where when president obama was in office, a judge on this very Court Allowed a house to sue over the same issue, on whether money had been appropriated and were being properly spent by the. Executive for the house to come in, it was appointed by President Trump, and to disregard that president it is true, it was not a binding precedent, he could make his own judgment but the difference, to say, the house can sue a democratic president , but it cant sue a republican president when there is a republican appointee making the decision, it is a very unfortunate thing, and i think the court needs to Pay Attention to the appearance of that situation. And especially when the same issue is litigated and is in in another jurisdiction, and where the result has happened, then notion to say that the house does not have standing was extremely illadvised and that is why i think it will be reversed in the court of appeals. Host from illinois on the republican line, good morning. Caller good morning. I wanted to say that the government has got unlimited resources. The individual that is subpoenaed has to use their personal resources to defend themselves already because they are already considered guilty prior to anything else. They will have to pay for their lawyers. Democrats will line up 10 people to ask the same question. ,f they have a different word they will get them for lying to congress. Then, they also have the power to send a bunch of to their house to drag them out in the middle of the night without indictment or anything and take them to jail. On the first point on limited resources, does the general counsels office have unlimited resources . Guest it does not. And i not go quite as far as the caller, but i think the notion the caller is alluding to is a real one. Both mr. Nathan and i have represented individuals who were getting inquiries from the house or the senate, receiving subpoenas from them, and it is a very intimidating process to be on the other end of that. Because these are individuals who do have limited resources. They are often government bureaucrats, essentially. They have jobs with decent salaries but they certainly dont have a lot of money. An issue likee this would be if ordinarily expensive. Just what a asked ordinarily expensive. But general counsels office does have many lawyers at their disposal and the committee as well. Congress, for better or for heard throughhave this program, in general, i think it is a good thing that congress has substantial power. It is important in terms of checking the executives. But those powers are intimidating when they are coming to bear off a particular individual. Host what is your advice for somebody who receives a subpoena from congress . Guest well, to hire a good lawyer, for one. [laughter] and there is often a way to work with the committees. Litigating can be asked inarily expensive litigating can be extraordinarily expensive. Can encourage the witness on how not to be unhelpful. Guest i want to disagree with the callers premise here. The government does not have unlimited resources. The general counsels office is small. When i was there, there were six lawyers. Maybe it has been expanded a bit, but it is still less than 10 lawyers. Second, the subpoena power is extremely important in our constitutional system to get the information that needs, both to legislate and for oversight. In my experience, in the normal course, when you are dealing citizens, first of all, they are asked originally to cooperate without subpoenas. They are invited to justify when they have factual information that can be useful. It is only when they are recalcitrant but subpoenas are issued in most cases. In this situation, where people are being asked by the administration with all the resources of the administration, and the Trump Administration. To defy subpoenas, the power is really on the other side. All the witnesses have to do if they get a subpoena, and bill is suggesting, is to work with the cooperate. To in my experience, the committees are accommodating, in terms of the timing, when you have to appear, they will keep the proceeding to a period of time that is reasonable and focus questions in a reasonable area. So i think in most cases where people are subpoenaed, there is cooperation, there is accommodation. It is only in these highprofile cases where there is resistance and basically obstruction, that this tension exists. And it is one that is created by the executive branch, not by the overbearing legislature. Host from dayton, ohio. On the democrat line, good morning. Caller good morning. I have the constitution in front it makes in article ii provisions for the removal of the president and Vice President resignation, or inability to discharge their duties. Yet, the Justice Department says that the president cant be indicted. And if they cant be indicted. They cant be prosecuted. You say that he is not above the law, how can both of those things we can do without a president. He can be replaced by a Vice President. Anybody else in congress. We have 535 people who can replace him. Isst i think the caller conflating two different things. One is whether the president can be indicted, can Face Criminal Charges while in office. That is an open question. The Supreme Court never considered that. The executive branch has offered its opinion that the president cannot be indicted while in office. That is an open question. There is a separate procedure, impeachment, whereby the president or the Vice President , or various other executive officials could be removed by congress. That takes the house and senate. And as mr. Nathan said, it takes a two thirds vote. Host on the independent line from minnesota good morning. Caller good morning. A couple of quick comments. Number one, you two will never have to worry about being called by jerry nadler, since neither of you have been disbarred or committed felonies. Which leads me to my second comment. At nadlers hearing, that is why 90 of the country holds congress in contempt. They should have to subpoena them. It has really gotten ridiculous. Did you watch the display yesterday, my god, what a dog and pony show would any of that testimony been allowed in court . Hearsay, making up scenarios all basis. R own with no for a guy from 50 years ago we live in his past, trying to cash in again . I tell you what, i have seen a lot of bad things, but this country is going down the [beep]. Host the differences between the courtroom and a room. Ssional hearing guest in a congressional hearing, hearsay is permitted and it is not generally in a court of law. Think what the caller fails to recognize, i didnt see the hearing yesterday, i am not the peopleon who testified, but it is obviously because of the obstruction by the Trump Administration, presenting mr. Membersnd other former of the administration to come forward and testify, and explain the facts as they know them, that has put the House Committees in this posture. That is why the courts are going to be needed to enforce these subpoenas. Thatt the actual witnesses gave the information to the mother administration and put it American People who are generally not going to read a 450page report but can understand what they see or hear or on television from the witnesses. That is the preference of the Judiciary Committee and so far, it has been blocked. That is why ultimately negotiations and Court Enforcement will do. Im hoping it can happen timely so people can get the information in a timely way. Host you said much depends on who the judge is in the courts. Who decides who the judge is . Guest there is supposed to be a lottery system. It is by chance. Any District Court, there are a number of federal District Court judges, the clerks spin a wheel when a case is filed, and whoever comes up is the judge who handles it. There is also a related case situation where if the case has earlier, and that is what happened in the District Of Columbia recently, some private parties brought a lawsuit dealing with the appropriations and payment on the border wall. A wheel was spun and a judge was chosen. So, when the house filed its lawsuit, it went to the same judge. It basically is a random selection. Done by chance. Judges have a lot of discretion, particularly in terms of how fast things move. I think all the judges, and certainly the courts of appeals and the Supreme Court after recognize that there is an urgency to this. I think the house has to demonstrate, has to act in accordance with that, and when asked by the court, will be complied with. Host so there is not a few judges that you keep running into . Guest no, it is a different judge every time. Host on the republican line, you are next. Caller i just wonder, with all the investigations going on, it seems like bill clinton getting on the airplane with loretta lynch, acting like it is going to be covered up, and never brought up. To me, that was the biggest crime. There was nothing to investigate, he committed a crime. And i dont understand why he is not being prosecuted for it. It is beyond me. Republicans on capitol hill have asked for investigations into that. Can they walk into the general counsels office and say, hey, you need to look into this . Guest they wouldnt walk into the general counsels office. They would try to encourage a particular committee in the house to encourage that or encourage the d. O. J. To investigate. Uphink it goes to, it brings what is a challenging issue in had a chance during campaign, to lock her up, when he was referring to Hillary Clinton. And now, you heard Speaker Pelosi Say Something on the order of she would like or he wouldnt paying her to see or pain her to see donald trump behind bars one day. If we have Public Officials committing crimes, sure, nobody should be above the law in our country. They should face criminal justice. On the other hand, there is certainly something banana about threatening ones political opponents with jail time. I think it is, maybe it is an unfortunate byproduct of the polarization we see today that folks continue to go to that. Host joseph in florida on the democrat line, good morning. Caller good morning. About 40 or 50 pages of the Mueller Report. First of al, i think it is kind of mindboggling, if it is true, that although congress all of congress has not read the report yet. It is not outlawed, people just dont want to read it. Anyway, i came across part of it where it talks about some russian individuals entering our country illegally, as illegal immigrants. And they had some kind of phony. Visas, they were taking photographs, starting phony rallies, etc. , sending the information back to russia to go on social media with these things. My question is, where are these people and what are we doing about it . Ok . Guest i dont have any answers there. Think it is important to understand, in relation to your previous question, john. The house general counsel does not conduct the investigation. It is anybody there to provide legal advice to the institution and to members, both democrat and republican and in the circumstance where there is litigation, to defend individual members both republican and democrat, and to represent committees and the house as an institution. Office. A nonpartisan and office that is designed to litigate and to give legal advice about the legal interests of the house as an institution. That is what it is doing. Site it does not look for individuals who may have violated a law. That would be up to the department of justice. Host a last call from michigan, dean on the independent line. Caller i keep hearing you guys talk about obstruction of justice. All i have heard was that there was no collusion, no obstruction of justice from the Mueller Report. You keep going on and on about this. I dont understand. What am i missing here . Guest you are missing reading the report. I suggest you read it. In the second volume, it is totally untrue that there is any conclusion that there is no obstruction. It lays out at least 10 instances which 1000 cuteras have signed a petition aosecutorss have signed petition saying that they see an attempt to preclude the mother investigation from getting access to information. I see obstruction of justice in what the Trump Administration is doing in refusing to comply with house subpoenas, tending third parties, including Deutsche Bank and mr. Trump spoke contents not to comply with the house subpoena mr. Trumps accountants not to comply with a house subpoena. That is obstruction. That is what i think is going on. Nobody who has read the mueller heort could conclude, and as said himself in his press conference, he did not conclude that there was not obstruction. He said if he could exonerate the president , he would have. He said he did not exonerate the president with respect to obstruction, and he gave that matter to congress to look and see what should be the consequence of that abstraction. Host do you miss being in the general counsels office . Guest no, because i think it is a very active time. I think i am too old to do it. I think doug and his staff are doing a good job. I applaud the effort they are making and i wish them all the best . It. T i do miss it is super fun to think about these issues and to litigate these issues. But i agree, it is in good hands now. Host William Pittard and irvin nathan both work in the general counsels office in the house of representatives. I appreciate your time, thank you both for stopping by. , more of your phone calls this morning as we continue to discuss efforts by House Democrats to pursue their subpoenas in federal courts. The phone lines are on your screen. You can start calling in now with your comments and questions. We will be right back. Announcer the house debates the resolution giving the Judiciary Committee approval to sue the attorney general, and former white House Counsel don mcgahn in federal court, to compel them to provide congress with information related to the investigation. The measure also lets other House Committees to sue the Trump Administration officials for testimony and documents, as long as they get approval from a bipartisan house readership committee. Watch live coverage of the debate today starting at noon eastern on cspan, watch at any time on cspan. Org, and listen on the free cspan radio app. Forhe reviews are in cspans the president book. It recently topped the New York Times bestseller. From the new york journal of books the president makes it read. Engrossing with graduations and fathers day fast approaching, cspans the president makes a great gift. Read about how noted president ial historians rate the best and worst chief executives. From George Washington to barack obama. Explore the life events that shaped our leaders, the challenges they faced, in the legacies they left behind. Isans the president s available as a hardcover or ebook today at cspan. Org the president s or where ever he books are sold. Washington journal continues. Calls. Of your phone a lot going on today, we will bring you up to date, under one hour from now, the house will gavel in. At noon, they will meet for legislative business. That is when the house is expected to begin considering House Resolution 430, which would authorize Committee Chairs to pursue their subpoenas in federal court. That is happening today. Several other aspects of that legislation it would grant Committee Chairs authority, if it is approved by what is called the bipartisan legal advisory of the speaker, majority leader, majority whip, minority leader, and minority whip. The progress would have the majority on the group. The group can act without the full approval of the house in the future if this resolution is approved. It is a key step, as democrats continue their investigations. Also, yesterday, democrats tried to spotlight another investigation. A hearing in the House Judiciary Committee yesterday with former Nixon White House attorney john dean. The headline from the Washington Post the house hearing detours into watergate. Of course, at the beginning of the hearing, the judicial Committee Chairman announced in agreement with the Justice Department for some of the underlying documents in the Mueller Report that the Judiciary Committee had been seeking to that from the white house. That deal of writing a former thatnal contempt citation Jerrold Nadler had threatened. Now, we move into this process happening today when it comes to seeking investigative powers through the federal courts. Another thing to note from the se Judiciary Committee House Oversight committee, Elijah Cummings announcing that he will pursue a contempt vote in his Committee Later this week when it comes to the Citizenship Question being included in the 2020 census. That vote would target wilbur ross and william barr. So there is a lot happening on capitol hill. We are getting your thoughts on all of it this morning. The phone lines are open to do that. Linda is in detroit michigan on the democrat line. Go ahead. Caller yes. I would like to thank cspan yesterday. I havent gotten to order the Mueller Report, but it was very interesting. Republicans,the aug jordan, isnt he on Sexual Assault case for 100 young men . He shouldnt even be on the panel. He shouldnt be on anything until he is proven innocent of the case that is already on him. I just think that the republicans have not read the report, you could tell yesterday. There was one who maybe did. I think it was such an embarrassment. And an embarrassment of our president going over to see the queen. That was a disgrace. His clouds. Host linda, on reading the report, have you read the report . No, but i ordered it on amazon. Someone called in and give the information on how to order it. So i am going to order it. But i do know that you can tell the guy from texas, the republican from texas, jordan, they didnt read the report. If they read the report, it would have shown on their face. They didnt read the report. They come in there for a show. I am telling you, to dean and all the young kids that were behind him, i was very proud of them. Host linda in michigan this morning. The title of that hearing from the House Judiciary Committee Lessons Learned from the Mueller Report. You could witness the former white House Counsel john dean. Here is a bit of his Opening Statement yesterday. The last time i appear before the committee was july 11, 1974 during the impeachment inquiry nixon. Ard clearly, i am not here today as a fact witness. I accepted the invitation to come here today because i hope i can give a little Historical Perspective on the Mueller Report. In many ways, the Mueller Report is to President Trump what the socalled watergate roadmap officially titled the grand jury report and recommendation concerning transmission of evidence to the house of representatives, was to president Richard Nixon. Stated a little differently special Counsel Robert Mueller, has provided this committee with a roadmap. Host one of the opeds in todays Washington Post saying it is like 1974 all over again, talking about john deans testimony there before the House Judiciary Committee yesterday. Been a male link writing even a casual association with watergate serves democrats and their purposes. Because watergate remains the Gold Standard of president ial scandals. President trump yesterday had some comments of his own when it comes to john dean. From the white house. Mr. President , in a reaction to john deans testimony . John dean has been a loser for many years. I have been watching him on one of the networks that is not exactly trumporiented. I guess they paid him a lot of money. John has been a loser for a long time. He was disbarred and he wants to prison. Other than that, he is doing a great job. Host that was the president yesterday. If you would like to watch john deans testimony in its entirety, you can go to cspan. Org and type in john dean at the search bar at the top of the page. From mississippi now on the republican mine, go ahead. Caller good morning. I would like to make a comment in regard to your last guest, the fact that he does think that there was obstruction. I would like to point out that mr. Alan dershowitz, who is a andus harvard law professor devout democrat does not think that there was any obstruction after he read it. I would also like to say that it of all a joke to me, these people who are not qualified, who have no law background, to make an opinion or comment about whether there was obstruction or not. It is just an absolute circus. Thank you. Host thinking of allender show its, he has been on this program speaking of alan dershowitz, ework on this program. You can also see the video on cspan. Org. From mississippi on the independent line, go ahead. Caller yes. They are going to subpoena barr mcgahn barr said he would come to testify, but the democrats want to have an all day picnic with their lawyers. And i dont blame them. Mcgahn, President Trump will the executive privilege when he was working in the white house. This will thing to me is just a joke. Host told me out of california on the democrat line, good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for this program. I have been watching it for a long time now. What it is telling me is we have. Ome Serious Problems whether you are to the right or the left, it doesnt take an intelligent man or woman to figure out that there is something wrong here. You have a president blocking each and everything he can do. Now, just being a simpleminded man, that is pretty much obstruction. Now, the other things he has done is lie, cheat, and still. He is trying to steal from this to do that, and blocking everybody from testifying. The first time i got a subpoena and i didnt go, a pickmeup they picked me up. I had to go. That was when i started learning about stuff. Why is it taking so many words to tell the truth . That is what i dont understand. That is what we need to get to, the truth. You know, mr. Trump, he is lying at every corner. He will say one thing on the news, and then say he didnt say it. I just dont understand that. Host taught me, since you brought it up, did you want to say what the subpoena was for, and what you have learned about the legal system since then . Guest the subpoena was for growing pot. Old, i am 60 years years old now, when i was 17 years old, i grew one plant. I ended up doing a year for that. I learned, you cant grow pot. It is real simple. It doesnt take that many words to tell the truth. Yet, we have a president , and attorney general, weve got several other people lying through their teeth and saying it is for the good of america. Host taught me, stick around. In about 15 minutes tommy, stick around, we will be joined in a few moments by rick steves. He is from the National Organization for the reform of marijuana laws, he is also a travel writer and tv host. Hope you join us for that discussion. Duane is next, out of union city, pennsylvania, a republican. Caller good morning, thank you for taking my call. I am a republican from pennsylvania. I did not vote for trump. I did not vote for Hillary Clinton. It is the worst ballot in 43 years that i have been voting but i have ever. Three words, we, the people. Every day, Congress Steps foot inside the confines, they are in the context of the constitution. Until we get they are in contempt of the constitution. Until we get Campaign Finance old is term limits, how mcconnell, it is something years in office . Our government is so divided right now, i am scared. I am scared for my kids. I dont even know if they will have Social Security when they become retirees. I am 67 and a half years old right now, and im struggling to cover this gap between now and then to be able to survive as a retiree. Things have to change, and the only way that we can change it, unless they get trump out of office, is at the ballot box. I dont think impeachment is going to happen. As you remember, i lived through the watergate scandal. The only reason the republicans up was because of the white house tapes. I dont think we going to have this in terms impeachment process. Event if the house did impeach him, the senate will reject it, unless something monumental comes to light. So the only way that we can do this is at the ballot box and the Electoral College needs some tweaking. It takes people smarter than me to figure it out. Host when it comes to the 2020 ballot who do you like on the democratic side . Who would you like to see at the top of the ballot . Is ar boy my wife democrat, i am a republican. That is interesting in itself. I dont like any of them on the democratic side. What i did introduce 16 is i wrote in my candidate, john kasich of ohio i do a lot of investigating and i will have to do some soulsearching this time. I dont miss voting i dont miss having to decide who i want to vote for. I do like on the. Democratic side, kamala harris. But i dont know how i am going to vote yet. I am concerned for the future as we see it today. It is so divisive. It is just awful. It is still the greatest republic in the country, in the world, but it needs help, and it needs help now. I mean now. Host that was going out of is living in this morning. Robert out of. Portsmouth, virginia on the independent line. Caller good morning. I would like to say, once they start investigating, once they get deeper into the investigation on donald trump, they will find out there was collusion with the russians and that there was a lot of it. Host and why do you feel that way, robert. Caller because of all the facts. There. Ts lead ever since he took office. He loves the russians. He loves Vladimir Putin so much that if you thought they could get him in the white house, he would. Host a lot of discussion this morning about the Mueller Probe into russian interference into the 2016 election. And other issues. Victor saying this morning, if you are an elected official and you have not read the report, you are a responsible and probably should be challenged in a primary for that week in congress. On the democrat line, good morning. Morning. Ood i just want to say a couple of quick things, ok . President trump, the moment he raised his hands to be sworn in as president , it was his very first lie. He took an oath to defend our hey and he has or can has broken that oath i dont know how many times. Second thing, what the democrats should do is set up you they have to subpoena. Put it on national tv the same way they did with watergate, and wants everybody goes through the questioning, it is going to be the same as watergate. Did you get a chance to watch john dean testify yesterday at the House Judiciary Committee hearing . Caller yes, i watched the whole thing, just the same way i watched i am 79 years old and i watched the whole watergate thing. I dont know why it is not obvious to the republicans, especially the republicans in the house and the senate. They are going to turn on this guy sooner or later, they are going to turn on him the same way they turned on the sun. They are going to get together, there are going to walk up to the white house and say, mr. President , either resign or well in picchu with the democrats well i impeach you with the democrats. What is going to happen in the 2020 election . All of them will lose their seats . What for . For somebody who doesnt give a [beep]. About is himself. Host speaking on the hearing yesterday with john dean, former white House Counsel during the nixon administration, republicans were not happy with the parallels democrats were trying to draw between President Trump and the watergate scandal. The Top Republican on the Judiciary Committee was doug collins. Year are some of his comments yesterday about democrats bringing john dean to testify. We are not bringing russian front and center. We are not bringing the election front and center. Although i appreciate that chairman reading the letters i sent him on what we could be working on. And i aim to move forward there. I could catch her testimony on tv. You are wonderful on tv. I am a republican. I believe you have used everything you can got, to get youuch business to want. For this committee to come in here from people who are not of the investigation, pontificating about things you do on tv like all of us get to do occasionally. And i am reminded of the russia priority issue, because a few years ago, it was brought up that our candidate talked about russia being a threat, and former president obama said, the 80s are asking for their Foreign Policy back. Guess what, this committee is hearing from thei the 70s and they want their star witness back. It is very difficult for one of the witnesses here today, for many of us who can trace the distrust in Government Back to the witness here today. The 70s star of obstruction. Further. I will take it for those who have been looking at this for a while and wondering how we got started here, for those who have heard we discuss the fact that the mccabe,cabal of comey, and others, how we got started here, i believe they have got to godfather here today, mr. Dean. They probably have a picture of them, how do we use governmental resources to interfere in other peoples campaigns . Mr. Dean is the godfather . Theyve only had a picture of you, knowing how you do it. Host that was doug collins in the House Judiciary Committee yesterday. President trump has been tweeting this morning, sending this out residential harassment harassment ial exclamationr point. Caller i am listening to your callers. There are a lot of facts here. The fact is, you cannot ignore a subpoena. If any american could ignore a subpoena, you would be locked up. The president has a directed people to ignore subpoenas, he has sent out ridiculous t tweets, and the fact is the russians interfered in the election. It was crystal clear. It in Robert Mueller said they did. He also would not exonerate the president on obstruction. If any other american had done that, we would be locked up. I just dont understand this. Fellow republicans, you have to look at the facts. I dont understand why my fellow republicans are marching behind this president. If it was a democratic president , you could just imagine what would be going on. Host did you vote for donald trump in 2016 . I did not. And i did not vote for Hillary Clinton either. I was hearing i was listening to another caller who did not phone for either one. I did not trust either. One. Quite frankly, i like one of the Democratic Leaders who you were talking about, his last name begins with a b. He sounds like the most sensible person out there saying that we have to unite the country. Host there is a couple that begin with a letter b. Which one . Caller bid. He sounds like the most sensible person out there. More sensible than the current president. This. President tweets the most dangerous things, in the most ridiculous thing is that the world sees this. Host congressional subpoenas will be front and center this afternoon. The housemates at 10 00 a. M. , and at noon for legislative business. The house will meet at 10 00 a. M. , and at noon for legislative business, where they will debate to the resolution 430, the resolution that will allow the Committee Chairs to go to the federal court in and force their subpoenas, and push through their investigations. The vote on that resolution is not expected until after about today. Stick with us on cspan, we will be covering it all morning and all afternoon. Dions next from waldorf, maryland. Democrat, good morning. Caller good morning. To have a few comments on the subpoena issue. I think it is crazy that members of the administration get to defy congress. Congress was there to put a check on these other branches. During the hearing with john , the fact that the republicans were pretty much, i felt like the questions they were asking, i am sure they were they didnt want to get questions just to ask questions that could get a clear side of what is going on. I think republicans are in a moment of defiance of democrats because they dont have the majority anymore, and they didnt do anything when they had both the house and the senate. I think we are just playing this running game over and over and over again. I feel like we are not pretty much meeting the issues on the head. I am a 24yearold africanamerican and i feel like i am left out. There is nobody looking out for us. Host that was dion out of maryland. Scott out of mesa, arizona, republican. Good morning. Caller good morning. I love the show. I just wanted to comment. I have been listening to the callers. The republicans stand behind the president. Dustnk that when the settles, it is going to be pretty much just the opposite, where the democrats and all these people in the f. B. I. And the department of justice, a lot of has are going to roll. I think people end up going to jail. No, i am not joking the fox news koolaid. I predicted this from the start, that this is the way was going to go. Yesterdaye democrats, was the perfect example that democrats have run out of ideas, that they had to call john d, who went to prison for lying 19 times before a Senate Committee hearing. That that is the best they can do. They are grasping at straws right now and running on fumes. Herenk the end is in sight within the next month or so. All things are going to start coming out toward what really went on and what reciprocated everything precipitated everything. I think a lot of people are still going to be in denial on the left but i think the facts are going to be the facts and i know that is tough for the left to handle. Host we have time for one more call on the segment. We want to point out this story from the hill newspaper from the congressman from michigan, justin amash, who said that after he read the Mueller Report, he believed the president did engage in impeachable conductp he quit the Freedom Caucus in the wake of those comments. Voteducus had previously congressmans remarks. They made it clear that his voice did not represent their opinions on the matter, writing that they did not believe there was collusion between the Trump Campaign and the russians in regard to the mueller investigation, and their reading of the investigation. In maine on the democrat line, youre up next. Caller yes. I am all for the contempt votes because if people would pay trump and his administration did not do this alone along with russia and other foreign countries. Abetters. Iders and that is all the president has been on the oversight. They did not answer one tough question, because they already know what is in there. Host you remain our last caller on this segment. We have a half hour left today. Stick around, we will be joined we will discuss cannabis policy, coming up. Stick around. Announcer the house debates a resolution today, giving the Judiciary Committee approval to sue attorney general william barr. To propel them to provide congress with information related to the mueller investigation. The measure lets other committees sue Trump Administration officials for testimony and documents as long as they get approval from a bipartisan house leadership committee. Watch live coverage of the house debate today is starting on cspan. Listen on the free cspan radio app. Announcer for 40 years, cspan has providing america of and publiccoverage policy events from washington, d. C. And around the country. You can make up your own mind. In 1979, cspan is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. Cspan your unfiltered view of government. Announcer washington journal continues. Know rickprobably steves. You may not know he is an advocate for the legalization of marijuana. Why did you get involved in this work . I spent time traveling in europe and i have seen how europe dealt with drug problems. Since the 1990s, it does not make sense we are locking up people for Recreational Use of marijuana. I have been outspoken on that. I am not promarijuana. I am proCivil Liberties. I am prosmart policy. We have a policy now which is wrong minded about marijuana as our prohibition against alcohol was in the 1930s. I am working as we are doing across the United States to pick apart the prohibition one state at a time. In 2012i was a cosponsor and lead spokesperson for the Recreational Use of marijuana in Washington State. Were the first states to legalize marijuana for Recreational Use. Insight intoonal how it works. Every two years i go on the road and talk up the wisdom of taking time out of the equation and dealing with marijuana as a health and education challenge. Host you are in the road in today. Guest i have a busy schedule meeting with legislators should be and interested in moving out of the statebystate legalization and into the federal realm. 47 states in our country have Legal Marijuana. The federal government needs to wake up to the fact that this is going to be more and more of a confusion and conflicting situation with legal businesses in one state and a legal and the other state and this is how it works in our country. States are incubators of change. The prohibition against alcohol. The federal government did not say lets stop. Statebystate we legalized alcohol then hard liquor, then hard brewing. We are doing the same thing with marijuana and we have a track record. After 2012i worked in washington 2016, massachusetts and maine. We won and although states. It is time to tell the federal government we had a track record. We know you are difference but the numbers are in. Listen to cherry picked statistics but the numbers are in now and it is time to reconsider this insistence on the federal government of criminalizing marijuana. Before his day in washington begins, he is chatting with us. If you support legalizing 202 748 8000. Who is jerry . On temperatures radio show accolade 80s. Guest jerry was me. I was asked to represent the responsible local businessman who smokes marijuana back in the 1980s in seattle. I believe in this. I believe it is a lie that decent people are lying to their work makes workmates, to their friends at church. I wanted to talk on the radio in seattle about the responsible use as an adult of marijuana as andy to reacts relax have fun. I was doubled enough to go on rick staves as the local businessman. I thought i was incognito. The next day i walked into work and someone said hey jerry, right on. People have been a let ahead of the curve. We have come a long way since then. I do not need to be jerry anymore. Host charles is up first from arkansas on the line that supports legalization. Caller i have a problem with the way they are rolling out marijuana in arkansas. 15 a gram. 395. If people are hurting and sick and in pain and this is being done for them, the governor let start in theors southern part of the state. People have to drive so far to concernit is not a about the traffic. They are not concerned about the safety of people or hurting people. This is a disgrace of what you have done to arkansas. I thought it was going to be i expected Something Better than this. Jerry, we have to be patient and different states are more nervous than others and every state rights the law according to what they think will pass. Legislators in states tweak the loss to make them smart. When we legalized in Washington State, we got a few things wrong and the late legislature tweaked it. Colorado had to learn to package it more smartly in the interest of childrens safety. Each state is struggling with this. You have to remember you can complain about the new laws but the alternative is people getting arrested and having their lives derailed because they are caught with drugs. What motivates me to get out and talk is it is a race issue. It is not rich white guys like me. It is poor people of color getting arrested. We have got six or 700,000 people in jail for nonviolent marijuana offenses. No 70,000 people in jail. It is a flat out racist issue. Iq people complaining about the law. It is a huge step to move towards legalization where we stop locking up people for smoking marijuana. It is a serious problem. It is a jog. It needs to be taken seriously. It needs to be carefully regulated. But now we have a booming black market in states and a highly taxed market in other states and we can make a choice. You cannot wish marijuana away. Have to decide it is it is it going to be a black market . Regulated highly market in my state . Apples as theg number one crop in our state and it was going to gangs and organized crime. Today it is a billion dollar Legal Industry employing thousands of people. That 300 million last year because it was not going to gain organized crime. Iss is a huge success and it not because more people are smoking pot. It is because that business is there and we are now taxing and ofulating it and the benefit that is we have credibility when it comes to talking about the real problems. We can focus on the opioid crisis. This is progress. In arkansas they have got things about the law you do not like. We are moving the school he forwards. I am in washington, d. C. Because it is time for the federal government to relieve us of all this silliness statebystate and recognize it is time to reconsider the prohibition against marijuana. Ifor of new york said society has a lot of the books does not enforce consistently, the roads inspect the Law Enforcement in general. We have inconsistent laws and it is going to get worse because we are not going to be able to roll back this rising tide of the trouble Marijuana Policy from states and i am excited. The government is seeing it might be time to reassess the prohibition. Line who oppose the legalization of marijuana. Go ahead. Caller i am appalled at all of this. They gripe about the smokers, thesecondhand smoke and medical costs. What are we going to do when all of these people are smoking marijuana . What about the medical costs . Regularalking about plain jane people smoking regular plain jane cigarettes and we have thousands who want to smoke marijuana. Was controlled there would not be medical problems but now we are going to blow it out there. Everybody, here it is. Lets all get sick. The democrats are going to raise the cost of medical insurance. That medical and force medical insurance on everybody else. Becky i think you are living in the misconception that there is a reservoir who would ruin their lives smoking pot if it was legal. In your state there are people who smoke pot. We go we legalized six years ago and smoking rates have state the same intime rates have not gone up. If you legalized in texas, it is going to stay about the same intime rates are not going to go up. I know that because that is a fact. Ou know a hunch my governor was not in favor of marijuana and he was elected the same day we legalized. Six years later he is thankful we legalized marijuana because we have a track record. Use stays the same. Duis do not go up. We take a thriving black Market Industry and regulate the heck out of it, tax the heck out of it and we have more civil liberty. It is much nicer not to arrest people of color like we have done in regards to our war on drugs in the past. The whole basis of your complaint is the assumption that use will go up when we legalized. Use will not go up. There has never been a society that has seen a correlation between how strict the laws are in marijuana and how many people smoking. In europe, the most liberal country of all smokes half the european average for capita desperate capita. To smoke pop duo and they do it as criminals or lawabiding citizens depending on the state. Line fornley on the those who support legalization, good morning. Caller i would like to start with kim reynolds. She recently vetoed the iowa medical expansion and about that i would like to say they allowed five businesses huge businesses to grow a certain thcnt of cannabis with low for iowa and those companies can do whatever they want. Those companies can say i grow weed all day long and they do not get arrested. Guy, you arelittle on the streets of iowa like me. I was facing 37 years with a mandatory 15 year sentence. And there are two reasons that cannabis is illegal. One reason is because the companies have to get their hands on it and make sure they take control of it 100 so that they can get all of the profits and they can control it. The second reason is because it will make people think outside it and theyhey take do not want us to do that because they want to make sure we are inside their box. We will let rick steves focus on that. Guest this is the nature of the beast with coalition. Prohibition. The hard part is someone can be arrested in your state and do a hard time and in my state somebody can invite their friends over and have a party and smoke a little marijuana. For 60s in Washington State, it has been taxed, regulated and legalized. It is a cross between an apple store and a pharmacy. Very strict. It is so ship shaped. People need to have defense against all really against all the regulations to be in good with the bank. It is a tightly organized situation in a bit that is legalized properly and i look out my window every morning and here isijuana is a state where marijuana is not a miss you. Grandma is rubbing it on her shoulder. Use is going down in my state. It is not an issue. Another states people are up in arms. Peoples lives are being relevant. People are angry at this, angry at that. There are two ways to approach this. It was an issue for Jeff Sessions . Aboutid he change guidelines for enforcement of processing what he specifically marijuana . Memo he derailed the coal. There was a memo from the federal government saying we are not going to get in the way of oversight of their laws as long as it does not leak outside that state. States were very thankful for that and they had sanity and stability and could proceed with their lives. The people i work with in drug policy reform most of them do not smoke pot. They care about their community ,nd there is a racist demoralizing the police force giving teachers and parents less chris ability credibility when it talks about hard drugs. This is a serious law and that is debating. In Washington State, we have the federal prosecutor reported by a republican president. We have the president of the bar association. We had the trojans alliance in our state. Several organizations Whose Mission is dedicated to the safety of children supported legalizing marijuana. State legislators whose reputations were health and Family Wellness recognized the most dangerous thing about marijuana when it is illegal. Then kids can be cut. He kept getting at the school. Sense, he had done the wrong track. After we legalized marijuana in Washington State, i have never been hugged by many black baptist pastors. They were so thankful that we took the crime out of the equation because they cared about the ravages of the war on drugs to their community, not the problem caused by marijuana. That is why the naacp endorses these issues. The naacp looks out for what is good for the africanamerican community. Legalizingdorse marijuana smartly because they know that the most tragic thing about marijuana for people who are struggling is the fact that it is illegal. Host about 10 minutes before the house comes in for the day. Taking your phone calls with rick steves as we discuss american legalization. Good morning. Caller good morning. In vermont, i went to several sessions and testified both in front of a House Committee early governmentsa commissions held around the state at various meetings. There are issues where marijuana has not really been studied that much because of the legality of it, which is an issue. What i was advocating for was just even the california shows that 65 has marijuana smoke is a cause of cancer. The smoke contains methanol and other carcinogens. It is not filtered typically when someone is smoking it. Then you have the black market that exists, which is what a lot of elected people are saying. You still have this big black market that is going to be there so what we are doing is replacing the black market with the legal market. They are not labeling the packaging with any warnings or anything like that. There is prose other than smoking. You can control the dose. Ou eliminate the lack market Additional Commission hearings. There were people that ran from companies that were have the on whetherompanies this would be a right of employees to use the stuff. And people with high cranes and heavyweights and dangerous work environments want people to be on the ball and how to present and not be drug users or having phd has for a prolonged or uptime and has a different effect on different individuals. These are guest these are points i did with every two years. I do not support legalized not respectat does employers right to whatever standards they want in their workforce. Allow employers to have whatever standards they want to have in their workplace. That makes sense but the reasons he said. Causess true marijuana cancer, that is not grounds for making it illegal. It is a civil liberty. If someone wants to eat something unhealthy for them if someone wants to smoke cigarettes, that is a civil liberty. It needs to be studied. It needs to be educated and labeled appropriately. Causes cancer. We should lock people up for smoking it. Silas was and how the bucket can still be thriving different states have to decide how much a tax revenue they want but how much of a black market they want. If you want to get rid of the market, use have less taxes. It makes the street more competitive to the Legal Marijuana. In my state we were greedy on the tax and oregon learned from that. They went less so they have this problem with the black market. This is what the dutch called a great area. The 25 years the dutch has not arrested. They have never dealt with the backside. Within a estate is doing which is bold and innovative in complicated is dealing with the whole mass production and distribution and backside of the retail business. What we are upd against is the ppp. These are entrenched interests that would bind it better for their bottomline if we keep marijuana illegal. It seems petty that any corporation would want to make something criminal. Decent people get a record or go to prison but i do not want to get in to get into all that because it sounds so negative. There are pharmaceuticals and big Beer Companies that are spending money against me, funding the opposition. When i go to states around the country i am up against opposition funded by pharmaceuticals, big beer and companies all types that make money by keeping narrow on illegal. I am in this for several liberties to end a racist policy, to turn a Thriving Market into a highly recognized legal market and get rid of the failed prohibition. Host about five minutes before the house comes in. We will take you to the home state of washington. Travis on the line for those who support legalization. Good morning. Caller thank you for cspan. Cardholder, i was a in washington around 2008 when i first got mine. One state started putting that making a sign up for the registry. Spooked ople to got spooked as far as the government. One more point i wanted to make made 300 in we have maine last year. Is theblem in the state state is not telling us exactly what they are spending. They said they were going to spend on things like education but they have is the state is not telling us exactly not been putting it up to the public what we are spending the money on. Guest banks. When i was thanks. When i was working hard to legalize marijuana, it was dicey. Longer dicey. As a political establishment that feels like 2010. We know what is going to happen when we legalize. The numbers are there. Things. Use road safety stays the same. Crime safety stays the same. We take a black market with treadway legal market. 2012 on Washington State was not from the right. It was from the left. It was from the medical Marijuana Industry because they did not want encroachment. We want to open it up and legalize it. If we can just break out of this prohibition we will not have all of this nervousness that people have leading to medical marijuana. As far as 300 million that reachesate my state every year, it is 300 million more every year. Earmarked and goes where it is supposed to go. I have read of policy papers from our government. It is right there if you know where to look for it. They get the luxury of earmarking this luxury money to where ever they want. When i was in michigan, they wanted to make sure veterans got a cut of that money so they could work on ptsd syndrome and drugwanted to work on awareness programs. They wanted to work on Public Safety and they wanted some for their educational fund. It is an exciting opportunity that stays have to take this money that was going to gain organized crime and put it into a conference. Host lets see if we can get in jane on the line for those who oppose. Can you make it like . Make it quick . Caller this is from readers digest. It is from 1979. Dr. Ethel seras and who conducted a study with thcs of exposed babies. They did not seem to have normal brakes on behavior. They showed deficiency in attention, subtle behavior, marginal brain damage in early developments. All the young people who want to smoke pot should not have children because of this danger. Guest do not tell that to my children. They drive from notre dame and georgetown and the fact that i smoke pot was an advantage for them. That is a different discussion. If you are reading readers 1979, on 19 from fraught with propaganda, you need to update your material. We have a society wired by a generation of propaganda. Our government has spent billions of dollars confusing the public because they are trying to keep marijuana illegal. Our government is manic about keeping marijuana illegal. Made a trade agreement where everybody has had to sign any country dare legalize marijuana, they have to have a war with all the signatory. His it is too scary to take e legalize marijuana the crime out of the equation. When you hear the term decriminalize. That is afraid to legalize because if you technically legalize you can get in the trouble with the United States. I was leaving this place in denmark. My friend said be careful in denmark because every year we have to arrest a couple of pot smokers in order to maintain favorite trade status with the United States. I cannot believe it. Host doing business with america . Guest if you legalize in another country, you have trade consequences with the United States. It is hard for our country to intimate that now because 47 states have some kind of Legal Marijuana now. Our country has been so regressive when it comes to wellness. My friends tell me society has to make a choice. Build morefe does or prisons. We lock up 10 times as many people per capita as we do in europe. Think there was something screwy about our laws. We have had a lot of callers talking about the sky is going to fall. I am telling you, people smoke pot already. As it is not an issue if you want a free society or pothead society. We have marijuana. It can be a Huge Industry or in a size of Civil Liberties and smiley regulated. It is time for the federal governments to listen. Host rick steves Advisory Board member, appreciate your time. Guest nice to be here. The day ouse for we will take you there for live coverage. Marc a. Veasey to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. Signed, nancy pelosi, speaker of the house of representatives. The speaker pro tempore pursuant to the order of the house of january 3, 2019, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour debate. The chair will alternate ecognition between the parties. All time shall be equally alled