Represents me, mandate that i pay these fees, whether i want to or not. I was not asked. It came out of my paycheck. For i saw the deduction union dues, i said, where is this coming from . I am not a member of the union. I never signed a pledge card, i never asked. My colleague said you have to have this fee come out. If you do not, you lose your job. What about the idea that you want the benefits of Union Protection but you do not want to pay the fees . Guest they are getting all of this money from Public Sector workers like myself, that choose not to be a member of the union. Therefore, because of that, they riding on our money. Crux of this. Sic of freedom of association. I do not have that. Host will you be arguing in front of the justices today . Guest i will. Host tell us about the edom our argument is that the court got it wrong back then. A union takes these fees and uses them for hardening, which is political advocacy. It tells the government how much spend on worker salaries, how it should run its programs. When anyone talks to the government about those, we call it political speech. We call it lobbying. And you should not be forced to pay for someone elses lobbying as a condition of taking a government job. Host the state chooses to administer its employment function, selects every topic for collective bargaining, fair share fees implicate employee speech because they derive from the decision of the government on how to manage its workforce. Guest the government is making these workers pay a private organization to advocate policy positions to the government. The government does not choose what policies the union will advocate. They are supposed to be adversaries in that. The unions are a private Interest Group that mr. Janus is being forced to subsidize. Our guests are here to talk with us about their roles in the case. You can ask them questions about it. Republicans, 202 7488001. Democrats, 202 7488000. Independents, 202 7488002. If you are a union member, you can call us at 202 7488003. A profile in the New York Times talks about the people who fund the justice center. Who is richard and how much support has he given . I am aware of him as a philanthropist. We are grateful for the support of many donors who fund our work. Guest i cannot predict any of that. I think it would be presumptuous for me to make that prediction. I am here advocating for the Public Sector. This is Public Sector only. We are advocating for all of those workers and the right to choose. I dont have the choice to make my own decisions. I want the right to choose along with the 5 million other Public Sector workers. If they choose to join the union, that is great. I am not advocating that collective bargaining is bad. That is not the point. The right of freedom of association and the freedom of choice that all americans enjoy. Guest the government said members payn make for certain things. Court said you can make to cover thefee cost of collective bargaining. That is false. Everything a Public Sector union does is political. Its advocacy is political. If mark janus or any government worker is forced to give any money to a Public Sector union, they are being forced to pay for union politics. That should never be allowed. Ou caller thank you for giving us a voice. I am a member of the local Operators Union out of indiana. I work on the state line. I work with water mains and sewer services. Indiana, thes in less insurance in indiana. And myffected my life fellow Union Brothers lives. Host what about this idea of diluting the talent pool . But i that is an option, dont have a right to choose. I cannot predict and make decisions in that regard. To freedom of choice. Host democrats line, keith, north dakota. You are paying fees for a union, is it taxdeductible . Host why is that important . I was just wondering if it was taxdeductible for them. I do not know. I am not a tax lawyer. Host 110 ohio, ted. Warrenton, ohio, ted. ,aller that is warrenton oregon. How many negotiations have you done, and how many without the collective bargaining . Wondering, not every state entity is unionized. Why are you doing this . It is because i do not have that freedom of choice to make my own decisions. When i worked in the private sector, i negotiated my own salary. My own working conditions. I want that right to be able to do that. When it comes to fellow members of your union, what has been the reaction . They have mostly ignored me. They dont say anything. On the other hand, a number of people have come to me and have approved of what i am doing and have said thank you, you are our voice. We always wanted a choice to that decision for ourselves. They are appreciative we are taking this fight. It is not my fight. There are public sac publicsector workers that have to pay these fees. Fightinghat we are for. The choice to decide what we do. Had any contact with any union leadership. Republican line, pleasant valley, new york. Caller i have a question for the gentleman. In the union for over 30 years, worked in the same place that had a union and had no union. Roughly 125 with union. We were a service andegotiated our contracts as the years went on, management started to try to use the new workers against the union. They would try to give them a certain amount and union people had our contracts. People started to find out the union was better to bn and these people were being controlled by management. Management does not want to give you more than they have to. Once you are in it and you make your own deal, you are in your own deal. They started the fight and they wanted to get in the union with people who were not in the union. I dont understand what this court case is about. I dont want to pay dues, but i was getting something from it. What about that idea of getting something from it . Guest that is the choice factor. If you want to be a member and want to bargaining, that should be your right. Say no and sayo i do not want to be part of that and i would rather do it myself. That is what this country has been, the principle of this country. Of the billendment of rights. That is why it is the First Amendment. It is the freedom to choose, the freedom to associate. Under the current system, i do not have that ability. If we prevail, it will not mean the end of unions. If they do a good job, they may persuade many people to join the union and pay dues. This case, if we prevail, could make government unions more responsible more responsive to the people they represent. They will have to convince people their efforts are worth supporting and they might listen to more workers. Lower court, it was a matter of precedent. Not role courts could in our favor. We had to go to the Supreme Court. , waldorf, maryland. You are next. Words ofou used the union was freeriding. What the average pay is for a person in this country. To 55 dollars an hour. My union only has 2 of my pay. That is nothing. You have your wages because the union has negotiated for you. Stop whining. If anyone is freeriding, you are. Me, fat, dumb, and hath he, where you get everything they have negotiated for you. Guest no comment. Take it is easy to say these benefits, but we have a First Amendment right to choose for ourselves what group we will and will not support. You cannot say we gave you a benefit and you should not care about your rights anymore. That is not how Constitutional Rights work. You should value the benefits we give you over anybody else. Some people have different priorities. In the government context, they should not be forced to pay for that advocacy. Host cornell, new jersey. Caller good morning. This is a backdoor way of union busting. First of all, it is the union that created the middle class. The union that created a lot of safety things in place for employees. It was the union that created the 40 hour work week. If you have seniority, they cannot put somebody who comes in the door in front of you. Unionized, there would not have to be a ledbetter act. We are becoming a class system because of people like you and the lawyers and corporate america. You have been unionbusting since and the middle class has been squashed. With the republican policy it there. Ill leave this idea that you want to be a union buster . About whetherot unions are good or bad. We will have unions. They will just have to operate with money people voluntarily give them, which is what every other group in society has to do. Every other Advocacy Group has to use money that people want to give. Have hadctor unions special privilege and no one else has, to force people to give them money. All this case is is about making them play by the same rules. Center, ise liberty this the first type of this case . Guest we are involved in a wide variety of cases related to the First Amendment. We fight special privileges the government gives to anybody. That is established players in politics, or unions. I can add only thing is this is going to affect Public Sector unions only. It will level the playing field. A level ofvide freedom of choice that is enjoyed and 28 other states. Where the Public Sector employees have the right to choose. That is what we are advocating, the right to choose in the freedom. The gentleman who have called and suggested a number of things, they have the right and the freedom to choose to join the union. All i am advocating for is for me to choose either in or out. You have a choice. If you dont want to be in the union, dont work for a union company. Do what i wanto to do. Because i choose service, because i want to do this type of career, why do i have to pay for it . Why do i have to pay a mandated fee to do it . Host has your union spelled out what may happen, particularly how these fees may be collected in the future . Guest they have not. We have to wait for the decision. Host is there a work around they could use to collect these fees . Guest there should not be. If workers have a right to choose, state should respect that and let every worker choose whether or not to support a union. Complain now all that they have to represent people who are not members and it would be terrible if we have to pay and represent them. They argue for laws that make them the representatives for everybody. Lawscould advocate for that say they only have to represent the workers who pay. That would be a fair compromise. I am not sure they will advocate for that. Host ronald, philadelphia. Caller they keep saying this is ort for state workers government workers. This is an ongoing thing. Law. Ight to be replaced the right to be fired for no reason. Union . Just joined the how long has he been in the union shop . Did he join the union shop to have this publicity to break down unions . State government approximately 11 years ago. I did not join it to get into a union shop. Nobody asked me if i wanted to join a union shop. Andas mandated, state law, i chose this because i like the career path it has. I like what i am doing, which is advocating for couples that have divorce and Child Support issues. It is a service. That is what i am advocating. Compelled you to take this case, to make this move . Guest the longer i saw the money coming out of my paycheck, that was going, and the fact that i was not allowed a choice to make that decision on my own, itjust kind of grate. Then the most recent contract negotiations, asked me with the state of illinois, the state of illinois is in terrible financial shape. We have 100 billion plus in unfunded tension liabilities, multiple billions in unpaid bills come and yet, the union is advocating for another 3 billion in wage and benefit increases. When there was pushed back purely from an economic standpoint the state cannot afford any more what did the union do . They went out and held rallies to advocate for tax increase in order to pay for these benefits. So you have now taxpayers that are having to put the bill. The state cannot afford. Host vicki in new york. Caller i agree with the guy in new jersey. These guys, all they are our union busters. I work for the city of new york. I started at a salary of a little over 18,000 a year, then at my job for 17 years. I am now at 72,000. The union makes sure we get our raise, we get eyeglasses once a year, and we get dental. I did not start out paying 20 every two weeks. I started out paying 10 when i first started. The union is a benefit for the employee. These guys dont care about the employees, they care about themselves. Host mr. Huebert . Some of these employees are very happy with the union, and it sounds like they will not stop paying come if they have a choice, and thats fine. If they think other workers that are not being should combination make the choice to them. If the union provide such a benefit, it should not be afraid of letting people have a choice. I think we will see, if we prevail in that case, they will make a lot of efforts to make the case to people. Im guessing in some places where people like their unions you will see a high level of union ship. In places where they are not as responsive to their members, you will see less union membership. It will be telling if workers get this freedom. We will find out how much support there is for these unions and whether people think they provide benefit. Host a viewer says on twitter, is similar a union to a defendant in a court trial. Of theit reminds me argument, if you dont want to be associated with the union, just dont take the job. The government is not supposed to condition that if its including jobs on giving of our Constitutional Rights. It is good to say just take another job. The government should not be in the business of coercing us out of our rights, but that is what does when it makes workers pay money to a union even if they disagree with what that union advocates. Host jackie in santa clarita, california. A union member for our guests. I have two important questions but i want to Say Something first. When i started working in the late 1960s i was making 1. 35 an hour. When i went to a union job, i earned 2. 75 write off the bat. By the time i quit i retired a couple years ago i was making close to 22 an hour as a nighttime manager at a grocery ordering, heavy lifting, keeping up with the guys. My two questions are, how much money do they take out for the Union Benefits . For my Union Benefits, it was so little, like one of the guys that talked before, i did not miss it, but i got dental, complete medical care, retirement benefits. It was worth every penny that i paid. That is why most of the unions are democratic because republicans do not back up any of the things that these unions are for and the democrats do. That i payamount annually is around 600. I want to emphasize this is not a money issue. This is not about how much money comes out of my teacher. Choose andright to the freedom of my ability to decide for myself. That is the bottom line. Guest the amount of money should not matter. We used to have systems in a number of states were a republican governor or republican governor would come in and if you wanted to come for state government, you have to support their Political Party or you would be out. The Supreme Court said that kind of patronage system is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court says it is wrong to make anyone give at least one penny to a Political Party they dont support, so why should it be different for a union . Host mike is in new jersey. Caller thank you for cspan. Mr. Huebert, my question to you is, where exactly does the Liberty Center get the money from . I know they are a think tank, but where do they get their money from . You said earlier that unions, people that did not pay into the unions did that get the benefits. You dont think the unions would not go for that, but that would be a good argument point for them to say, if you dont pay income you dont get the benefits. On the first question, we are funded by a variety of private donors. We can represent them. With respect to whether unions would want to represent their own members, maybe some would, but unions lobbied to get these provisions in state law that say the union has to represent everybody in a given group, whether they are members or not. Unions like that because it is a special privilege that gives them access to all of the workers and puts them in a position to collect dues from those workers. I suspect most of these Public Sector unions, if we prevail, are not going to want to give that up. You see that in the federal government where there are no forced fees, right to work states. Unions like representing everybody even if some dont have to pay. Host jackson, north carolina. Republican line. Jackson from winstonsalem. Ins go to elise springfield, virginia. Ask a i just want to question but i first want to make a comment. I am a registered nurse. I started out my career in california, worked under a union shop. Doing that helped protect the workload, and the environment, so that our patients got better care. As a nurse in virginia, i worked in fairfax, there was no union, no protection. Mr. Janus, you made the comment that you wanted to be able to approach your employer and negotiate your benefits, your work, salaried, on your own. May i tell you that is probably one of the most laughable situations to apply here . You as an individual going to your employer and saying i want to get paid extra, y, z, that is never going to happen. They will show you the door. If there have been a problem with your work environment, you have been on your own. Host mr. Janus. Guest under the Current Situation im under now as a nonunion number, i am on my own. If i have a problem at work, the union will not advocate for me. They will not support me. So i would have to advocate for myself and make my own case. Host one more call from david in dayton, ohio. Good morning. Mr. Janus, you work for the state. The state takes a part of your salary to pay into a pension fund. You have no choice in what the state invests in, so what are you going to do . Freeannot have so much speech, rights to choose. What do you do when you do not like what the state is investing in . Lets say they invest in a company that you dont like, what do you do . Guest whatever they do with my upsion money is up to them, that entity that manages the pension funds. It is similar to the idea that if i purchase in my ira, mutual fund, and they invested for me. They are the professionals. They would do the investing. So i dont necessarily have a choice. If i dont agree with it, i moved to a different fund. Host what are you looking for in todays proceedings . Guest what the different , the argumentsay that will be made. I think there is no way to predict, know exactly what the justices will act, how they will react. That, to me, will be the fascinating part. Host mr. Schubert, what are you looking for today . Guest we are hopeful that the court will want to restore workers Constitutional Rights in this respect angle state clearly when you take a government job, you dont have to check your First Amendment rights at the door. Host Jacob Huebert is with the Liberty Justice center. Childanus, illinois tonight on cspans landmark cases well look at the Supreme Court case mccullough v. Maryland, a case that solidified the federal governments ability to take actions not explicitly mentioned in the constitution and restricted state action against the legitimate use of this power. Explore this case and the high courts ruling with university of virginia associate law professor Sarah Peterson and mark, university of arkansas law professor and lawyer of mccullough v. Maryland securing a nation. Watch landmark cases live tonight at 9 00 eastern on cspan, cspan. Org or listen with the free cspan radio app. And for background on each case, order a copy of the landmark cases companion book. Its available for 8. 95 plus shipping and handling at cspan. Org landmarkcases. For additional resource, there is a link for the interactive constitution. For nearly 20 years, in depth on book tv has featured the nations best known nonfiction writers for live conversations about their books. This year as a special project were featuring bestselling fiction writers for our Monthly Program in depth fiction edition. Joint join us live sunday noon eastern with jeff sarrah most recent book is the frozen hours. The final storm, plus 11 more novels which recount the military history of america from the American Revolution to the korean war. During the program well be taking your phone calls, tweets and facebook messages. Our special series in depth fiction edition with author jeff shaara sunday live from on to 3 00 p. M. Eastern cspan2. Well take you live now to the floor of the u. S. House on the legislative agenda today, sen