Lot of the competitions that were there does go away but also, how we deal with international competition. Much of that will get fixed. It is tax reform like 1986. And it is rate reduction, pro growth. Said you could do your taxes on a postcard. Will that be the case . Now, two thirds of americans use the standard and that will go up to. 0 of americans there will that a larger standard deduction now. So it will be a lot easier for most people but for others it will be complicated. Host explain what will happen to the alternative minimum tax for individuals . Guest we had hoped to abolish it completely. But high income people will have to deal with it. I think we should get rid of tax theyications like that and came down towards 20 million. Grow back again. So right now it isnt completely it is gone for 99 of people. Not in the bill that you wish was included . Guest a couple of people. Everything that happens here. Goyou are french and you back to france, and you take your money with you, we dont bother you. This makes it more less competitive for american companies. For takingig reason the corporate rate down. Even obama talks about doing that. But we didnt do that for individuals. And so right now, individuals to taxes in france it is my hope that we will get rid of that part of it. Tax. O to a territorial this is something that makes us competitive. Green, where you opposed to this bill . Guest this is not a tax reform. It is an trend of wealth to the largest companies. Programes a critical and investments that the Government Works to make our country work. Cuts. Oses them to and there is an increasing amount of monopoly that we have already seen because it Takes Companies that are doing the largest amount of business around the world, there are massive tax cuts. American onto partners are doing their best. Host one of the arguments put forward is that if we dont lower the tax rate, we lose more american businesses . The reality is that the bill, as it is designed, incentivizes companies to ship overseas. This opens that up by saying, you know. If you invest abroad, you pay near zero tax and minor global minimum taxes. This is what Michael Bloomberg said in a piece. Calling it a trillion dollar blender. Saying ceos are not waiting on a taxcut to jumpstart the economy. This is fantasy to think that this will significantly increase higher wages and growth. Congress did what it always does and put politicians first. They claimed to have more than 100 professional staffers working around the clock and if true, their hard work must have been suppressed. Its fantasy to think it will grow. The onepage analysis treasury released except the white houses ability. Guest there are several things that help with job creation. We have Small Business expensing so in the United States today, when you invest in a new plant or equipment, it depreciates and you dont get your money back through that time. Million on new trucks for your company, your if makes that the investment less expensive than if you had to wait over 10 or 20 years to appreciate it over time. It makes investing with job creation less expensive to do the same thing. ,nd when you earn 100 today the government takes 35 of that on the margin. That is a decision that you make. Is about a 22 increase in the after tax cash flow. So this isnt just for americans. This is for people overseas who want to invest and get jobs here. You get higher rates of return. And that is a helpful thing or the stock market and the 401k and the irs. One of the reasons democrats criticized the bill is that everybody in a 401 k and an ira can look at them every quarter. Nd see their stocks increasing and increasing more dramatically. Peoples withholding will go down starting in february which is when the irs will get it done. The tax cut will take effect january 1. So is it less expensive to invest and more productive . More profitable, you will see more investment in the United States. And i was in europe and swiss bankers were saying that capital leaders were moving to the United States whereas in the past, they spend a lot of money going overseas. The marginal tax rates are in the 20s. The 35 highest in the world. This from this morning tax bills affect have been mostly ignored in Media Coverage but data are used they are cherry picked to create that familiar expression. The bill will cut taxes for the majority of americans at every income level. Overtime, it is a ration. When the tax cuts go away for the middle class, and over time, the middle class will pay more taxes than they are today. So critics of the bill this is joint tax. Higher income groups get less of the tax cut that the lower income groups. And that is joint tax. That is the governments own numbers. Overare hostile to this time. Theyre not doing us any favors. But what is important is that critics say, in 10 years. Waythat is because of the the bill had to be drafted in order to pass it. Because there are no democratic votes for tax reform. There was a sign letter saying that if we dont support cutting taxes than they wont sign the bill. If you dont want to play, you dont want to play what they will pass the bill with 51 votes rather than 60. And that means you can only do things out 10 years. Thats what happened with the first tax cut. Obama extended for two years and then they extended it permanently. Of course that is what is going to happen. They talk about one of the tricky amendments to after the middle income people permanent reformthere isnt a tax to the middle class then why do they make that permanent . Because they know it is substantial for middleincome americans and it will be permanent. If you believe for a moment that even democrats would be able to do that . We will be able to do that. Guest it is incontrovertible that the vast number of benefits at that chart go to the top income and large corporations. And over time, we will reduce those benefits for middleclass families must leave them in place for corporations. We wont have to wonder whose priorities are being played out across the street here in washington, d. C. And that is largest corporations. It comes down to your vision of what creates jobs. If you believe that corporate profits are not high enough and they need more profitability to invest and create jobs then this tax bill is right for you. And if you believe that more competition, cracking down on monopolies and making sure that there is a stronger safety net with investments in education and infrastructure and research and development, the things that create a middleclass economy, then this tax bill is not for you. The history is that tax cuts do not create jobs. In the 1991 we had rather we they raisedrowth, taxes on the very wealthy. In 2000 when george w. Bush lowered taxes to the wealthy, we saw poor economic results. And that ultimately helpfully to the financial crisis. So then barack obama went back and raise taxes on the wealthy and the economy continued to grow during that time. And one of the challenges was that we are going down the wrong path. Here, and headline the editorial against with these words. Host go ahead. Guest it is in controversial d. C. The very powerful in want their tax cuts. Those are wealthy individuals with large donors and billionaires who are members of the cabinets and elsewhere, they want to see the estate tax lowered. It is a tiny fraction of the American People but it is important we have things like that to prevent an aristocracy in this country like they did have in europe when our country was founded. So those who get the biggest benefits are arguing hardest for that. Companies havet gotten bigger. And the benefits are greater than ever. Are andy greene and Grover Norquist. Our phone lines are open. 202 7488001, republicans. , democrats. 00 send us a tweet and join in on the conversation at facebook. Derek joins us from minnesota. Good morning. Caller i have a couple of points. One is that we havent heard anything about the National Debt when obama was in office for eight years. I have called on this program and they say it is overblown but you are saying 1. 5 trillion over 10 years . 10 years. 1. 5 trillion. The National Debt will go up 10 trillion over that time. So i dont want to hear that this will expose debt. Host andy greene . Guest in the obama time, we heard tremendous amounts about how we cant raise the deficit a penny because the debt is going to kill us. And it stopped investments that would have helped america recover for more quickly but they were stymied for six years under the republicans in congress and now, senator corker says oh, well, when trillion dollars, that doesnt matter. I just find it the height of accuracy. Guest we did increase the debt dramatically during the obama recovery we had a during which participation fell. During everybody elses recovery, more people enter the job market and more people started to work. So when people talk about the unemployment number dropping, have a good chunk of that was people looking for work and they were discouraged workers. But as to the question of the debt, our goal should be to reduce the total government spending. Soreduce the personal income we dont have the government take the money and run lives for them. Its your money and your work keeping thisok at thing in mind. If the government grows at 3 here. Versus 2 what we had during obama. Be at 3 and not at 2 or below. Atif you grow at 3 and then 2 over the next decade, you will have more people working. That is the congressional budget offices own number. So the most avoidant thing we can do to get the deficit down is to reduce debt. To have strong economic growth. Under reagan we had 4 growth which was helpful and important. And it brings in more revenue and it allows you to not have a deficit and then we have republicans taking the house and senate when bill clinton spent what he wanted to spend. And we had strong economic growth. Legit surpluses. And so the idea that there is any sort of debt or deficit the added suggests that you think grow by. 4 will over a decade. Use static modeling, you would have a deficit. And on top of that he will see Everything Else the same with deficit reduced because we have more than. 4 . Green, your response to this comment . Saying that only three people are happy. And1 , the Trump Supporters the Democratic Congressional candidates. Guest they will regret this in two ways. The American People are very unhappy about this tax cut bill. It increases taxes on the middle class. And they will show that. In elections coming up. And they will also regret this because there will finally be proven wrong on a lot of the claims they make about how cutting taxes to the very wealthy and large corporations will drive growth. If you go back to the evidence and compare what happens in the states, look at what happened there. California,versus bill clinton increased taxes on the wealthiest and the Growth Numbers in the economy are stark and incredible. In 2015, california grew by 2. 9 . So we can go further back in the numbers. Host share your comments on our facebook page. Guest can i address that question . You have the three people who benefit . 2015illion americans in were hit with the Obamacare Tax passed with penalties because they didnt want to guy they didnt want to buy government priced insurance. They said fine, we will claim 100 for a family of four. This was no government service, just a penalty. But thats your problem. Notmillion americans will eat screwed by the government. More than 1 of the population. And those are people who cannot afford to be manhandled by the government like that. Has been a lot of talk about corporations for the first time. Since 1931. We decided that half the country proprietorshipe or proprietorship, a d corporation. Half of the country. Or more than half of the country works for a corporation and for the first time they get a reduction in the rate that they pay. Anda raise their rate impose taxes on the corporations. He raised those taxes. Finally, the 28 million ricans that is not 1 28 Million People, some of them married and some of them with kids, they will all see lower taxes because this tax reform package decides that not just corporations gets tax cuts but those passed through partnerships and companies also do. And you have lower rates. This is a very important collection. The first 29,000 of what you sorry, the first 24,000 of what you earn is at a 0 tax rate. Bloomberg doesnt care about people who make 20,000 or 30,000 but those people pay a lot of their taxes. This is what they said about the reagan tax cuts and every time we want to reduce taxes, this is what they say and they have been wrong. Host here at the table is. Rover norquist and andy green lois, you have been patient. Thank you for waiting. Er i want to say that i am 76 years old and i have watched this seesaw for quite a long time. Republicans come in and give tax breaks to the wealthy and the American People say oh my goodness, and then they put a democrat in. But then there is no money. There is no money. So democrats have to raise taxes. It is a seesaw that goes on all the time. Grover norquist has been hanging around trump too long because he is lying through his teeth. Guest if there is something i said that you dont understand, we can go through that but namecalling is not grown up. Your view on this, dave . Caller i hate it. I watched trump speak the other day about how jobs will start pouring in the country theyre coming in by the thousands and those are his words. Is company from germany that contracting a company in china to build a piece of equipment that is, located so we had to ane guys to come over as engineer. Smarter than smart. And he worked with us for 12 days. I got the bill for his labor the other day. Degreed engineer who knows what he is doing and the bill was 1200. 50 a day. So this is not going to do anything to solve that. Companies are not going to come over here. I hate to call these lies but every time trump speaks with us he is exaggerating. And the thing of it is that we are not even addressing that. And they say companies will pour over here . Grover norquist. Tea party guy, right . Isnt it the pinnacle of hypocrisy what we talk about putting the debt on our grandchildren . Do you remember the mantra we all marched to . Guest your mixing several things together. Madew wages or what economies do well then we would be doing very well. What is important is productivity. The more productive workers are then the higher incomes and higher wages we are in, and that is this tax plan. Business investments trying to get people more equipment to computers ander better machinery at lower costs, in order to make them more productive so they can make more money. And they can compete with companies in other countries with lower wages. The problem is that we have billions of dollars going from billionaires out of the country. And we have a problem with the governments that at the state and local level tax businesses too much. People are leaving high tax states and states with no income taxes, people are moving to their. People are saying that they prefer, starkly and dramatically. They thought about doing Something Different but they didnt. They kept spending too much. So we have a real challenge in how we become more effective. Down soto keep taxes that we get more productivity and growth. Host this is from rebecca, a tweet. With mounting debt, we will begin to look like greece. The rich will take their money and run. About to go back and talk that tax cutst will spur Business Investment doesnt hold up in the environment of week competition and the wide availability of borrowing . Guest thank you for bringing that up. This is the big argument between demandside. The challenges we need to make sure is that we have to make sure they have more money and when they have more money, it will trickle down to everyone else. I didnt interrupt you. The law of economics says that when there is more money in peoples pockets and theres competition out there between large corporations, people draw down prices and it will increase. So will be a scene for years is record corporate profits. We have seen them hidden offshore. And the economy america has been improving but not enough because we have not been investing in the middleclass economic security. So i want to go back to something that Grover Norquist did say. The tax onbout health care. And getting rid of that in the bill. And what that actually is that this very tiny individual mandate will result not in having Peoples HealthCare Insurance cost go down but actually having Health Care Insurance premiums go up. Will have people higher and more Expensive Health care. And again, id like to go to a number of other things where these companies are not taxed at a corporate level. They are directly taxed at an individual level. So providing tax cuts at the individual level simply more of the taking of corporate profits and put it in your pocket rather than investing in and being a participant in a Civil Society to a governmental investment make an educated and healthy and cooperative economy. Host i want back to my previous question. Whether or not the tax bill makes this more simple. They say it does not pass the postcard test. It leads nearly every large tax break in place. It creates new preferences for keeping corporate accountants busy. Guest its true. The passthrough loophole is the most egregious example of the tax bill. The examples, we have seen them in newspapers. Companies and Farm Equipment companies, debating over getting rid of the structure, whether or benefit or not. And a want to talk about low wages of productivity. We talk about a dollar here or a dollar there but at the end of the day it is about broader incentives. Having an economy where ,orporations are accountable there has been massive amounts of Consumer Fraud recently where mandatory arbitration clauses cannot bring anyone to court. To hold them accountable. And if you want to live in a place with an economy where people dont have rights and where corporations can run , that is an economy like china. Suspect groveri norquist doesnt like to listen to. Host and other question through a tweet saying, if money trickles down, where does it go . Good morning. Call code good morning. Here in north carolina, Lowes Home Improvement just sent close to 300 hightech i. T. Jobs to india. Indiana, the deals that the president and the Vice President made with carrier is falling apart. Leaving bys are january 11 so happy new years to them. And nobodyion is, seems to be old answer this, is trump going to be the example and bring back his factories from china . And how about his daughter . Is his daughter bringing back the factories from china . Nobody can seem to answer that question and it would be great to lead by example. He says all these companies are going to bring the jobs pouring back. But i just read yesterday that 12,000 people were laid off at ge. It is a con job. He is a con artist. Paul ryan has admitted he is going after medicare and medicaid. You can find it on cspan. Host we will get a response. Entitlements in 2018, where is that . Guest every year, you get to do a budget reconciliation package that you could pass with 51 votes. Parties were in a different place in 1986. Many democrats helped to write and vote for the tax reform package. The top marginal tax rate was 28 . Today, when you take the top to 37 , nine down. Oints higher than it was they have moved so far to the left that they cant be part of what they voted for in 1986 with the lower rate for individuals. So you have to work through a budget reconciliation package. And that will be in april. They will be dealing with the means test and entitlement. If a democrat tells you that republicans are going to change Social Security, they are lying to you. It requires 60 votes. And the democrats are not cooperating so they cannot be part of it. Social security is off the table. Any democrat or person in the press who tells you that is lying to you. I talked to Paul Ryan Ryan about what theyre looking to do. Theyre looking to block welfare programs, going out to the state. As clinton did. States were able to increase the money to help poor people and people got jobs and did better with those jobs. State. Are reform to the it was successful under bill clinton. Tax reform, he was brave and he said he was going to do it. And there isnt a clinton wing of the Democrat Party anymore so they will not be supportive of the welfare reform that at one time, they could support. Republicans will do welfare thatm and we will look at to make sure that ablebodied men are told that you have to go to work. If you want help. So those are needsbased programs. California,in california can go crazy. The money will be up to them. Michigan for the democrat line. Good morning. Caller good morning. Bill is sos important that it should be voted on by the people and not congress or the president. Just put it out the way it is so we can all read it or look at it on the internet and vote for exactly what we want instead of what they want. Code i do think people will be able to make a decision and it is the election in 2018. And if you go back and looked back at what happened in 2004, the last time republicans did something similar with george w. What you saw is a wave in 2006 because the results were not there. There was a series of tax cuts to lower the rate from the wealthy, just like we do in this bill, it cut corporate rates for companies putting profits overseas and the problem in 2004 was that there would be more investment here in america. Were going to create jobs but in 2004, the top beneficiaries the offshore tax holidays did is that they cut jobs in the u. S. And they handed out record increases in our backs and shares and evidence to executives and the very wealthiest shareholders, those doing well. So i think the evidence is that people dont like that. They dont think that is a priority that they need. And they would much rather have Investment Education with them for structure and everything they can do to compete with china that are making those investments. Of losingre at risk jobs. Andy green and Grover Norquist. This is something you told the the when you drop aftertax cash flow of every american corporations that will do positive things for peoples 401 k s and iras and most American Families are in the stock market. Are they . Guest yes. Most have defined pensions. All government workers in utah have defined pensions. The military is moving in that direction as well. We dont want to end up like detroit where the government promises you things but the money isnt set aside for them. Americans ore they have 401 k s and Health Savings accounts and flexible savings account and are in the stock market. And one of the reasons the democrats are having hysteria over this bill is because they know that at every month you will be old to look at the value of your 401 k and ira and you will continue to see it go up as it has. The economy recognizes what helps the economy. A lot of the regulations that obama and his agencies put it, that were destructive to the a tremendous jump in the stock market and it has continued to grow. Taxwith the enactment of reform, watch next year and keep track of how door life savings increase. Is pay lower taxes which helpful and good. But your life savings will increase. And the biggest winners will will be people who get jobs. We want to create more jobs in the United States. I dont want to take a job in china and move it here. We need more jobs and higher wages in the united eights which means we need lower taxes on all businesses. I love that democrats has started to attack 28 million americans being told that the tax cut you are getting is a bad idea. The wall street journal focused on the debt. Donald trump and congressional leaders take what he calls a politically convenient but risky task in the drive to overhaul taxes. Heres a summary of what is in the republican tax bill moving through the house and senate. It includes the Corporate Tax rate dropping. The top individual tax rate from 39 point 6 . It increases the standard that auction for all who take deductions. As this is get a 20 discount of individual tax rates. The alternative minimum tax rate is lower. Taxes arelowered cap at 10,000. Lets go to ray. Caller i am as happy as a clam about the tax bill. Survivor. Bamacare i worked in the Hospitality Industry for 20 years. In, n obamacare came over cspan. Our owner was forced to cut everybodys hours to 28 instead of 40. That, i hadtop of some crappy insurance policy. How is this good for me . Guest i think we need to do a lot more to make Health Care Affordable and hold companies and executives accountable to do right by the workers. It sounds like you had somebody who was not doing right by the workers there. Think we need to do a lot more to bring down rates of insurance. Rather than increase them. Now,bill being proposed cutting taxes for the wealthy, it will increase Health Insurance premiums or those who need it most to be affordable. So there is a lot more we need to do. Host you mentioned that democrats are not supporting the and republicans did not support the Affordable Care act. What will it take for the two parties to come together and compromise on the issues . Legislatively . Guest the two parties are moving in a different direction. The Republican Party wants to have lower taxes and less control on your life and the Democrat Party wants to impose on you and tell you what kind of Health Insurance you want. With obamacare, you were told that it was going to save you thousands of dollars on health care but it actually went up by that much. So they dont how to keep prices down. There were going to try to stop lawyers in hospitals. Talk to your doctor and ask a much they have lawyers. To pay wheny have your doctor has to pay higher fees and your fees will get higher as well. The democrats are wedded so much to the needs and not to patients. Keep the prices down . It is a major challenge. Guest were talking about the tax cuts. Hillary clinton was clear what she wanted. No one got a tax rate reduction. No one. Not low income people and no one. Sheena came out in favor of a soda pop tax. Tax on the people. And a wage tax. And she said she would sign the. So she was willing to raise taxes on poor people and middle income people. Everybody. And 1 trillion that she admitted to with tax increases that she didnt spell out how much they were. Green. Ndy guest the Affordable Care act help 20 Million People get insurance. The American Medical Association has a post and all associations have vigorously opposed every effort coming out of washington in the past 12 months to try to repeal it. Clintons taxk at plan, you will find that they were exclusively about raising taxes on the very wealthiest. Taxes and the Social Security thing, that is closing the loophole that allows the wealthiest folks to not pay payroll taxes that everybody else pays. So i think this is really a question about, what is your vision for the role of government in society. Beit a government that will invested in you . A government that will be there to make sure you have education for your kids and access to college and the ability to have higher Affordable Care act . A healthy environment . All of those things require government investment. And they require government setting the rules. As opposed to running roughshod over ordinary families like it has done repeatedly through history. Roast repeatedly during the financial crisis, which was one of the worst recessions in recent memory. And after years of obama and janet yellen, we finally dug out. Tot we have a live shot show all of the notes that you have. And you can see all of the paperwork on the desks. They are offering their perspectives on the republican tax bill, moving through the house and senate this week. Jeanette, you have been patient. Thank you for waiting. Caller good morning, gentlemen. My comment is actually for Grover Norquist. Im going to use your term. The American People are the ones getting screwed. Because we all know that corporate america, when they get their tax cuts, they will not be putting it into give people more jobs. Without a doubt. We know that isnt true. Its not. I worked for the department of education and we have to wait years. And what ends up happening in medical went up. What i pay for medical went up. Raise,finally got my guess what . I still pay higher for my medical. So they put the money in their pockets. Grover norquist . Guest a couple of things. It is interesting to see that obama promised to cut business taxes. That showed people not bring money back to the United States. He wanted to bring that down. He kept promising people he would be kept saying how important it was to do. That he haddo was taxes on people who earned less than 200,000 a year. It was said earlier that Hillary Clinton wasnt going to raise a on wages for everybody but she specifically said she would. She wanted to tax everybody. The democrats have made it clear that when they promise they wont tax people, they will. Obama made that promise and they promise they wont tax people but they do. What we will see is that of the Company Wants to make more money, they have to invest in. That means hiring people. See will we have investment and capital points in the United States is more jobs. And you certainly see that tween the states. It is especially important with the movement of people and capital of other companies into United States. See you cant invest without jobs. Someone has to do something with the money that you are putting together to build a factory. Republican on the line. Good morning. Caller a question for both of you. I came in a little bit late and im not sure how you to get paid . Are you selfemployed . Have you always been selfemployed . Do you work for somebody . Green. Ndy work for a nonprofit and our funding comes from a wide range. Guest i work for a notforprofit. Donehing republicans have is put a cap on how much money people have been able to walk away from. There have been some real abuses. Host good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. I have a comment and a question. My comment is, this is as irritated conversation that we are witnessing this morning but it draws distinctive lines how Grover Norquist he says his facts versus andy green. Hyperbole, this is the same old, same old. My question is cspan. There are other sources you could use for sources then the new york times. Investment daily . Standardused weekly this morning and investment review. Thank you. Trade i dont mean to per corporations as evil institutions. I have worked for some and there are many good people there. I am simply trying to describe the incentives that exist in the economy. Of the incentives coming out the legislation is to not invest in america. The incentives are to put more money into stock buybacks. Into the stock market. That theke sure economy does not create the foundation for economic growth. I believe that and i think many of you believe that it is essential. Host they talk about putting triggers in place. Why was that not included in the final bill . Guest they have to decide to see if something fits in the senate rules and they decided that a trigger would not. They said that we couldnt do it, legally. Some republicans were ready to if they had to do that. It isnt a good idea because you , please invest. Any discussion as to whether these tax cuts are permanent reinforces it. Taxes were domestic and they if youre an and professional or youre selfemployed, keep an eye on how your taxes are going down, no matter which party. Guest people will see a change on this bill. Host how do you measure if it is working or not working . On with will measure it her are being created or not, which is not exclusive. Whether jobs are created here are overseas, and what other arguments are coming out of the conservatives on capitol hill about whether we need to cut entitlements, the safety net, and squeeze government and other things this bill completely ignores. Host the last word, andy green for the center of american progress, the house is scheduled to vote on the bill tuesday. The senate could vote on the bill the same date the same day. John cornyn was met the voices we heard this morning discussing tax reform. This triggers those provisions, which trigger a cut in medicare. We will deal with that later this week. I believe we will protect medicare. If to ms. Pelosi will join us, that will be a done deal. For susan collins, this was one of her conditions for passing the bill. Do you have her vote, even if those provisions are not guaranteed