Good morning. Thank you for joining us. Im the director of National Security here at the bipartisan policy center. Im please to some people are still hungry for turkey. That was my only thanksgiving joke. I am sorry. I will leave it at that. Case,here to discuss the todayin the world is was supposed to be the start of the trial in new york in the , who has businessman seemingly disappeared. Why in thistion of case which in bobs allegations he helped iran evade u. S. Sanctions against iran. Why is that a Sticking Point for u. S. Turkish relations . Im pleased to have an expert panel to discuss that. I wanted to announce a couple of products the bpc is putting out today. We have an explainer to explain what the case is and we are launching a Broad Initiative looking at power and corruption in erdogans turkey. We are launching an interactive feature on our website which is focused on the case and allows you to explain the links between his review people. Libby go to our panel. New panel, r a the Central Asia Caucasus Institute and member of the turkey task force. ,pcs very own Nick Danforth expert on all things turkish. You that, let me start with. Can you give us a summary of what the case is about . Sure. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. He got arrested in 2016. He became very famous in turkey. I think he stayed in jail in turkey a couple of months. Was forgotten in turkey married to ais popstar in turkey. More or less he has been on the turkish an agenda since 2013. He got arrested. It was a shock to everyone. Then. Been in jail since we do not know if he is still in jail but we know for sure he is under u. S. Federal custody now. There are lots of speculations they are using a hotel or somewhere else. That has been 4 indictments. The first came after reza zarrab was arrested. The second one came a year ago before the u. S. Elections expanded included his brother. Third, when the second person got arrested. He is also in jail. And the fourth just came up early september, the most expanded one, and included a finance minister, plus the general manager of a bank, a turkish public bank. Deputy international general manager who was taking care of the international banking. A total of nine people. It really hit turkey. What is he charged with . Counts ande six charges. It is one of them, conspiracy against the United States. Basically the United States. He second is banking defrauding u. S. Banking. The other is moneylaundering. The fourth is it will come back to me. Experts say if the transaction,every it could be really long. Which is how these things go. We are looking at more than a century of jail sentence. All of this are allegations of course. The police and prosecutors launched those investigations also dismissed them. Here, 20 months later we have trials,ens of conferences and hearings but we have not so far had a committed person. These are allegations. To the back story of this and reza zarrabs arrest in turkey. Can you talk about the concept of that . Isthe case of reza zarrab systematic of u. S. Turkish relations now. Or theare in turkey United States you are living on different planets in many ways. What you interpret when you see the case, the details, they are different. At then issue of trust end of the day and the complete lack of trust, and deep suspicion that exists mainly from turkey. That you cant understand the case without understanding the movement and conflict between president erdogan and the movement in turkey. From the superficial American Perspective this is an issue of corruption and sanctions. Legal casethis is a that has its judicial process. Im not saying anyone is purely out of politics but it is mainly a legal case. This is not only manipulating political things but we have to remember the way the whole case came out was by the december 2013 raid targeted at president. Rdogan and his proxies family members and close associates. The interest thing thing about the raid is they were not just any kind of corruption. An economyre is built up in turkey but, the allegations focus particularly on those issues that were the most damaging from an American Perspective. Of al qaedaases linked saudi financiers. We also had the issues of the iran sanctions. The fact that these raids target those things, not just ordinary corruption, but things that would be damaging internationally for erdogan are important. The prosecutors involved were affiliated with the movement. Understood by was supporters as a judicial coup. This is the background to how they see it. Obviously following this we have weve had elections. We had a coup last year that erdogan was strong evidence the movement he says it was all about the golan movement. It was much broader than that and complicated than that but, in any case, from the perspective of him and his supporters when reza zarrab gets arrested in the United States justndicted, this is not an ordinary legal procedure. This is about a continuation of the coup against him. But we have to understand, and may most people may not need formally internalizing, from erdogan and his supporters perspective he is not an economist actor. Autonomous actor. How Conspiracy Theory pervades thinking. The interesting part about his book, the arab and iranian world , there was an appendix about turkey that said its not relevant for turkey now but it may be in the future. Everything in the book is about conspiracy theories. Whether we agree or disagree we have to understand for erdogan and his supporters, it is an american controlled operation and it is an american coup against him. From that perspective what were seeing happening in new york is part and parcel of an american effort to overthrow him. Saying i agree, but we have to understand that this is not just propaganda thing for erdogan and his media. They use poppa granda phase pop they use propaganda effectively. How thisyou talk about turkish view of what the case is about has played out . Sort of where it might go from here . I will followup on what he was saying. Right now were in a situation turkey, not just people reading the papers, but people in the note states are living in different realities in regards to this case in the context of the u. S. Turkish relationship. This case is worth looking at both how this helps perpetuate those different realities and exacerbate many of the deep divides in u. S. Turkish relations. But also to show be on this incipient the divergent opinions about turkeys role in the world, going back to 2012, 2013 when this case came into being, how this case and the crisis we find ourselves in now was the result of a growing divergence that predates it. In that regard i would say from the knighted states perspective people look at this as a simple legal matter. They violated u. S. Law, now they are being tried in u. S. Court. Beenurkish response has what right does america have two make it against the law for us to do business with iran . This was a bilateral trade between two sovereign countries. Why is this in violation of u. S. Law . I think it is worth acknowledging where this argument is coming from. Certainly the United States does have the unique ability to make our National Interests into a matter of universally enforceable law. Ronhis was paraguay and i iran, he would not be facing trial now. That only goes so far. The point is also worth mentioning, a problem goes back to how they approach this issue in 2012. They may not have agreed with United States laws, at the time they made it clear they did have concerns about u. S. Sanctions. At the point when the sanctions were put in place where people in the turkish government and Banking Sector new the laws were in place, they were aware of the consequences of breaking them. At that point the decision to go ahead with this scheme, to support reza zarrab, was taken with the knowledge that this was against u. S. Laws. That is why they try to hide these actions. There is in this context something problematic about presenting the consequences turkey not just individual citizens but the entire turkish economy is now facing as result of these actions as a conspiracy against turkey. Im sure they genuinely believe they were doing it for turkish National Interests. Whether or not they agree with them some of they should realize were going to have consequences. I would make a similar point about the broader geopolitical context in which this has happened. Turkey has had a complicated relationship with iran. They have been rivals for centuries. The scheme was taking place turkey was in considerable tension with iran visavis their divergent positions in the syrian civil war. Turkey solve the geopolitical benefits of maintaining a functional relationship and helping iran evade u. S. Sanctions. This has been a matter of considerable outrage for many in the United States to which people in turkey pointed out they are not the worst or only country to maintain relationships with a nasty regime. Turkey is not the first country withintain good relations oppressive states with a long history of promoting islamic extremism. In the, this happened context of turkey being a nato ally. In the context of turkey being irans neighbor, turkey, had it not been for their membership, they would have had every reason to be terrified. No country would be excited about a neighbor developing a nuclear weapon. The reason they were not as concerned, it was a nato member. It had nato protecting it from nuclear weapons. The fact that it had a time when they were relying on turkey takection, for it to action than that undermined nato country efforts to stop irans like a program, it seems deep file asian of the spirit of the alliance. I think that is an interesting issue. Maybe we can look at this shifted. And how that it also gets us to events of the last couple of days. Chan. N going to so the phone call friday, what that might be about. We can bracket those issues and talk about the case itself and what it means. Lets start with this. You mentioned one issue. For much of the last year, when turkey has talked about concerns, it has been talking the extradition. It hasnt talked about the reza zarrab issue until recently. Why is that . Is there a greater emphasis, and ncern about google then . Reza zarrab there is an exception and up session. Whogan was the person movement. E goal line what turned out was that there was a power struggle between these two elements. That struggle has almost destroyed the turkish state. That is damaging because everybody understands he was the person who enabled. The rise of Gulen Movement 1980s. In the it suited his interests at the time. Toot of people, i talked every good friend last week. Secularist to said we need erdogan because hes the only person who can get rid of Gulen Movement. It is very strange. The assumption is that he hasnt done that yet . Yes. Groups have been purged. What im trying to get to is that maintaining the pressure on for the regime stability a necessity but also something that unites him with his new coalition partners. His earlier coalition was based on conservatives, liberals and kurds. Into anow been turned Tactical Alliance with neonationalist forces. Nationalists. They are highly skeptical if not hostile to the United States and the west. This focus unites them. I would say tensions with United States and the suspicion this case generates strengthens the power of these neonationalist forces in the turkish government. If you want to speculate, do you think, erdogan really wants them back . Is it just this technical political ploy . I do believe you once and back. That, the i believe latest revelations on how he if you areim to believe the claims, they have not been confirmed yet but, i think the government has been wanting him back but at the same time, rather he wants more is the question. Inin, we now know that september of 2016 when the president spoke to President Biden after the coup, 65 days the trauma was still being felt very much in turkey. In this meeting he talked about reza zarrab the reza zarrab case. I think he wants him back but more than [inaudible] happy to hear about this for you, but i guess would you agree with that assessment . Thanould he want him more gulen . Turkey was involved in undermining ally interest with iran, or is there something greater . This is one of the strange things that i think people in washington have wondered about. There has been in private meetings, he has been very focused on this. He is one of the case to go to way. Yet, why is not immediately understandable to people outside of turkey. This case could confirm the allegations. One of the consequences is this could give a newfound legitimacy where has previously he has been able to dismiss them. My something has been any revelations that would come out of this would be easy for erdogan, given his effective use. F rhetoric to dismiss it on seems like he is more concerned about the potential revelations than people from the outside think he needs to be. People trying to understand why this might be the a case proves that turkish banks are involved in sanction busting there could be heavy fines levied against turkish banks. ,t is still not clear to me even worth the case to result in fines, it seems odd he would deal with that case making the case try to go way. Any fines that would come out of this would be ones that the state department could mitigate. So, i dont actually have a great answer for why this has been as sensitive as it seems to be. I think the reason he has he might be is talking to prosecutors. Hech now every indication is is talking to prosecutors. We dont know the deal. If he is talking to prosecutors he has to give up everything. Everything . Names, people who work with so thathe scheme, to implicate ang officials, key allies people like amandas loss. Indicate implicate erdogans soninlaw. I think that is why he is sensitive to possible things he might be talking. Allies will have a lot of limitations inside or outside turkey. I think i agree. Concerned. To be very i think it is because he sees this as a gateway to something that will hit closer to home. Family members, something else. I dont know. I dont know what reza zarrab knows, but it is important to look at this in context. He should not need to be this concerned. He is weaker than he looks. He looks like an especially after the coup. If you scratch the surface a little, the dirty secret i keep talking about, he never had enough people to run the turkish state. He always had to rely on others. That was rationale for bringing in the Gulen Movement. Speaks of them he did not have enough have enough filled. He had to lean on the nationalists to run various state agencies. That is one thing. Is, in spite of the referendum, turkey is still not a president ial republic. It will only be after the next residential election. Verything he does is illegal every decision he takes him every time he calls up and illegal. Etary, that is that is the Prime Minister prerogative. Which is why he is worried about legal matters. We also know he almost lost power. He said his sons to live out of the country. Hehink his behavior suggests actually has more reason to be concerned about these kind of things than what would appear to be the case. Bewe have heard there might some sort of deal brewing. I feel at we have been talking about this for a while. Come to the zarrab United States in the first place . He gets arrested for breaking u. S. Laws. He is released. Three years later he comes to miami to take his kids to disney world. We have been talking about a potential deal for a wild. Why do you think that might be happening now . Yes. There have been a lot of speculation when he came here knowingly. I do not believe that scenario. Not because i dont believe that scenario. I have seen messages published by the court that he was having fun talking until the last minute and we he was told about different ideas. That it has been months. Deal,came here to get a expanding that much time in the jail. He would not be spending that much time in jail. He is on trial today. Yes. His lawyers have been battling fiercely. Against him that would weaken his defense because hes going to confirm much of the allegations against him. You raise the question of why he came to the u. S. Do you have an answer . 33, he gothe was away with everything in turkey. Hes been rich all his life. He did not give good it get good advice from his lawyers. He came and told them these u. S. Ations and he told the according to some sources, he status. Cked his he got his visa and got on a plane. Was no he thought that danger for him. , assuming there is a deal what do you see as the legal consequences . Lots of unknowns. Quite aeen talking to few experts on that including financial crimes. ,t looks like if he got a deal he would have to give up names and information. He needs to convince prosecutors he has good information. He needs to be qualified as substantial assistance that is either going to help u. S. Authorities, plus hes going to give intel information. Money. S of not only turkey, but people ,alking about malaysia, germany the u. K. , dominica. There is a lot of players around the world now worried that reza zarrab might talk. He has been in jail for 20 months. If he gives good information, according to people who know these cases, he might get out soon. Maybe a couple of years. About theask you potential political consequences of the deal. You talked about how it might be seen from the turkish side. Ut also the u. S. Side will it matter for u. S. Turkish relations if there is a revelation of turkeys complicity in sanctions busting . Turkey would not be the first country to do business with a corrupt state. The u. S. Has done so plenty of times. Does this really matter for the United States . I would give two answers to that. Company at this country was iran will matter. Even before the most recent election in the United States, and afterwards certainly, one of the approaches turkey has used is to present itself as a potential ally in confronting iran the and regional influence. From the outset that might have been a tough sell. It didnt necessarily convince anyone turkey was going to be a strong supporter. , wanting to take a tougher line, it remains a sales become sowere it to obvious turkey had been sabotaging our effort to constrain iran that would make that difficult. More broadly, the details of the corruption and extent of the corruption are going to have an impact. Explore inething we the paper. Corruption and consequences. One of the things that seems most troubling is until now the knotted states frustrations have been couched in terms of policy goals. The United States wants turkish support. Turkey has refused. Ofruption raises the issue not simply about the decision to cooperate but if corruption becomes too systematic, turkey is no longer going to be will to walk rate with United States on key issues even when they have shared interests. , theree of the things was lots of frustration over isis but eventually turkey got on board and seem to be making enough for to confront isis. It has engaged in meaningful cooperation that helped western fighters. There judiciary underminedpromised, by the purges to better get away with corruption, that is going to make this more difficult. That is a longterm issue that is going to have longterm consequences. That makes perfect sense. Hand, what erdogan would hear from what you said is just because i got rid of your police, you are now saying we have a problem with corruption. At least now i have people i can trust. Situationk to the that we live in different worlds. Becauseer problem also gulenists misunderstood, when forced to choose, nobody really knows what they want, the majority of opted foren erdogan. You may like them or dislike in but you know what he is. I think we have to understand this is for a lot of turkish public opinion, the coup is more alive than we think. For us the coup has morphed into being about his closed coup refracted repression. For most people this is not what is going on. T is still about the trauma we dont understand that. The other part of that is the deal. If there is a deal. You will not be able to convince erdogan or his supporters that this is just a legal procedure. You will not be able to convince people this is not u. S. Policy. Whatever President Trump says, this is the United States going against turkey trying to turn his associates against him. Not know where he will be able to go after this. I am not saying we can stop the process of justice. Im saying we have a train wreck. If a deal is struck you will have to react. How do we manage this process . Manage the longterm relationship with Turkish Society so the majority of turks dont see everything the United States does as being something that is scheming . I think we have some homework to do. I think you bring up something fascinating. So the extent gulenist continued, it is almost a into a conspiracy that erdogan is the being on goodte, terms with United States, u. S. Influence would have impact on domestic politics. That proved not to be the case. They thought the United States supporting their investigation was going to be more than the vast majority of people. This is where we are. I agree. Miscalculatedave for the last few years. Not in the Civil Society organization but political actors in a way that i said, not what you see what you get but you dont know what you are saying. One miscalculation after another. Would it mean to much to try to draw a Straight Line from intends to use the case against erdogan, to where we end up today in turkish politics . The failed coup in the president ial system that is coming in the next election . Everything is connected. Erdogan, he has internalized his own discourse about being of turkey. Ntative at his power being central for the progress of the country. A lot of turks dont agree but at this point with the mess going on you have seen in the how three years, two years nationalist mobilization in turkey has become extremely powerful and if you like erdogan, you see in his rhetoric talking about other turks by using the termen other turks. Understood by the vast majority of turks as the representative of this nationalist impulse, which he wasnt even five years ago. Whileu cap his identity purging islamists from his government. And adapted a nationalist costume. Said about what i his we journal position, that is what he is doing in a sense by necessity to maintain power. He is channeling something that is very real. It is not something artificial. Tomay be before we go questions we could pivot to the issue you raised about turkeys position in between the u. S. And itself dealinges y. Th its front of me frenem iranian relationship in the region has been part of what has been a problem in the u. S. Turkish relationship. Opposed toey were so they feltassad, betrayed. Now we are having to pay that away from that. Maybe the u. S. Is concerned about trying to push iran out of syria. All of that culminated in the telephone call between trump and erdogan. That has been instrumental in fighting isis. People here in washington said that is impossible. I little while later the u. S. Said. Hat is what trump where do you guys see turkish iranian relationships, and where you see the regional issues playing out . Connotation on , anythingning point that may come out of the reza. Arrab case or are we on this collision course . The anger in turkey, the sense of paranoia, it is real. Erdogan,ply felt by , and iationalist circles do think if there is some kind of break up in u. S. Turkish relationships, if they do lose turkey it is going to be as result of [inaudible] the suspicion of russia remains real. The policy ofd nothing but sticks. There have been no real appeals to turkish National Interests. Georgia andnvaded the ukraine in the last decade. We are not going to lose turkey to russia but because of the areas perceptions of the United States, in many cases justifiable, in many cases bizarre, there is a possibility if they can conclude the u. S. Is hostile, the genuine believe United States was behind the coup, the u. S. Support for the , this will lead to a rupture in u. S. Turkish relations which will force turkey into a desperate search for other allies. They may have to make do with russia and iran. First choice would remain a situation where it stays in nato , he gets the benefits of cooperation with the west. The paranoia, that remains to be seen. Let me push back on that narrative that you laid out. Erdogan has gone to tell ron and said iran is my second home. Ran and said iran is my second home. To ahing more akin brotherly affection for the Iranian Regime than purely a of i needcalculation to find someone other than the United States to work with. Cooperated a few years ago on Foreign Policy in which we see this oscillation of this and islamist idea that he was building on, that we can work jointly with iran to a gorsuch terry and that seems to be going differentmore approach again. This me andere is my brother against my neighbor logic which who threatens mind helps. Russia this is the pitch russia was making to authoritarian leaders 1015 years ago when we had the revolutions. Not that the russians were really going to help but that was there pitch. The u. S. Is out to get you overthrow you. That is the pitch they are making now. , the ypgher hand thing, i tend to disagree. I think this is a scituate serious issue. When the turks say this is an organization controlled by a terrorist group inside turkey they are right. This creates a problem. We say we are only cooperating in syria. It doesnt work like that. The issue is trans regional. You are de facto strengthening them and that becomes a problem. We have never fully resolved if we are going to choose the kurds or choose turkey. We try to have both. That goes to the final point. Maybe will make another choice in a few weeks. That is the real problem. We dont have a strategy. The turks got very surprised with the United States seem to say enough already. What has been the followup . This was an action that may have made sense if it was part of a larger policy. We have a lot of Different Things happening but there is no red thread. I do not see any larger strategy and policy. If we dont have a policy of dont see how this can be normalized. Thoughts on the future of the relationship . I think it is above my pay grade. Think it is well laid out by the experts here. Cannot forget what is going on. President trump calls president erdogan and says it will stop but we hear from Coalition Forces saying it is going to continue. So, we will try to keep up with them. Note, let optimistic me open it up to the audience. We have someone with a microphone. In the back. It seems to me to look at this as a corruption issue, it is part of the deterioration it has been going on. Why you are soe confident about that. The way the relationship is going from what i am reading, i am seeing more articles skeptical of nato leadership. Let us say that turkey blocked our access. We are sending them all on. We would do what in response . On russia, that is the next point. Is, ifwould mean by that you want somebody to experience what it is like to be friends with russia, good luck. We see everybody around the , they fall out with the United States. There are some things they can strike some deal with the russians. The russians treat them so badly they get that up with them quickly. That is what i would say. That doesnt mean you are wrong. By thed have lost a lot time that happened. In that sense, i think youre probably right that there is a scenario in which this goes very makethe turks make decisions hard to undo later on. I share that concern. That would be very much my take. Russia has been offering turkey nothing but sticks. You look at the discussions over aleppo. Turkey basically caved in, allowing the regime to take back a crucial city in syria. They got permission for a small operation. Subsequently, russia still has forces. Turkey has been eager to invade. ,ven the deal that is telling the russians have given nothing that turkey wanted in terms of technology transfers. At one point, would not give turkey a good deal on the price for the sake of securing this arrangement. For all of these issues with russia, it is striking when you read turkish papers. Theyve been eager almost too eager to remind america, yet to be worried youre going to lose us to russia. It almost undermines the effectiveness of this ploy. That said, getting back to what we were talking about earlier, things for the f400, this israel. This is protecting erodgan. So ifk he wants the f400 the nato planes come for him, he can shoot them down. It doesnt mean they still dont want nato weapons to be able to protect themselves against russia. They want the best of both worlds. And the extent there able to achieve this is very much debatable. I think you both have suggested the risk is they will end up with the worst of both worlds, being alienated on the west and at the mercy of russia. You have to see what is important to them. In syria, very small things, what they, especially the nationalists antiwestern nationalists around erodgan are panicking about is this kurdish corridor to the sea in syria. If the russians are allowing and the u. S. Is not, as the russians are allowing turkish troops on the ground that can block a this project are probably could never happen have gotten they something out of a very Strong National interest out of the russians. It is also important to note the russians have not been shy about playing footsie with the kurds at times. Of me ask you to build off that question. He said the russians are happy to go around the region and offer basically protection for the regimes, especially at a sees the u. S. Ey as conspiring against the erodgan regime. Situation,e in that how do you fix the relationship . I mean, on the one hand should the United States be happy and willing to work with the regime that is mostly concerned about its own survival and wants to be assured it can sort of continue to remain in power . Convince itow do that the u. S. Is not out to get it if thats what it takes . You alluded to the russians have played with the kurds. Inspent a month or more moscow before he was apprehended in kenya. And still it is the united as as the turks suspect Conspiracy Theory, not the russians. That is related to several things, one being the ideological up bringing of erodgan. Antiamerican, not antirussian. They live in and an antiamerican conspiracy world. Also that the russians, mr. In is a verys guild poker the very skilled poker player. Stable a not that house of cards, if you will. But the point is, he is able to see every cards and part of the geopolitics of this region as a whole. He is able to play it as a whole. Therefore, achieve success and press the turks everywhere he needs to. Whereas we have we dont even have policies. We have a bunch of different decisions or processes that are almost out of our control. If youre from that part of the world where turkey is, you cannot comprehend the idea ,hat all these things happen washington, and there disconnected from each other. They have to somehow be connected. You have to be the greater mastermind. The mastermind cannot be that incompetent. That is impossible, right . You are trained and programmed to believe there is a mastermind. So you have to find the logic. And that is why, and im sure the russians are very skillfully feeding in some lies in the middle of all of these intelligence sharing they are feeding to the turks. I go back to what i said, we need to take a holistic approach in how to deal with this and focus not only on the immediate future because erodgan may be there for a year, two years, five years, 10 years or be gone at some point. We need to think about how we build a longterm relationship , as turkey as a country difficult as the countrys going to be. Even after erodgan, it is not going to be easy to deal with. That is why come back to ypg. We may find the cost of the benefit the benefits outweigh the cost, but we have to be aware that just like the decisions we took after the first gulf war in the early 1990s had implications for the way the whole of turkey views the United States, if we choose to go down this road with the kurds, it will have similarly longterm implications with every constituency in Turkish Society. Followup, one of the most amazing conspiracy theories i ever came across was when the United States was the cia helped the turkey captured the pkk leader. This was part of a plot to , thereforethe pkk advance the u. S. Of creating a greater kurdistan. Even the capture, at the point where we are now generally is hardng the pkk, it to understand how we overcome the amount of suspicion that has created. Solved say this is how we this is above our pay grade, but im afraid that is what you are paying me for, so. Mostly they have been marginal until 2013. One of the things they did very well was they were very realistic. They had good situations with the eu. They became a full cabinet member in relation with the u. S. Although there were lots of ups 2008, 2007, 2ng thousand 9, 2010. We have seen the crisis in the relations, but mr. Erodgan and forparty, they never went Conspiracy Theory still get to protest. For about four years now, everything has been explained by conspiracy theories. Thank you. Any additional questions . Let me ask one final one based on that. On may 31, 2013 . Why did it change so suddenly . For the first time, he might lose his power. The realhat was danger. I remember the first day of the protest. Noteated and said i did seen the danger. People are just afraid protest were ongoing. Uprising. Syrian much also personally very [indiscernible] when the same protest happened in his symbol, suddenly the next had i start hearing, then good relations with the akp. I start hearing the second day somehow or bytest the germans [indiscernible] this was in the making for some years. I think mr. Erodgan so for the first time the middleclass people are not happy with him. Personality,w his he had been in power for 12 years, 10, 11 years. He became already, i think, very much entrenched with power. Protests happen in 2003, 2004, 2005, mr. Erodgan could have handled better, very differently. Very powerful with majorityists, most the back to mr. Erodgan. At the end of the day, he really got away with the protest country inf of the the bed with the western powers. And since then, same rhetoric. It is very clever and fortunate for a country that was so close to become very real claim in the like anow the explained middle eastern authoritarian regime. We explain every single problem as a plot, including including the mr. Zarrab case. We dont know what mr. Zarrab is going to talk about. Once he is talking, i think, according to experts, he will open lots implicate lots of other people and we wont see those indictments very soon. So if he is talking, this may change trigger events that may go on for a while. And nobody know from turkey side, who is in the indictment list. It sounds like this could be a real pandoras box for u. S. Turkish relationships laying out a minefield for us to navigate in the near future. You agree with the assessment . Yes. On that optimistic note, we will end for today. Thank you for joining us. I encourage you to check out our reza zarrab. I look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] coming up in a few moments on cspan at 30, House Minority whip steny hoyer on the roundtable discussion on the Opioid Epidemic in his district in Southern Maryland. Adams and local Emergency Management officials will discuss efforts to combat the epidemic live at 11 30 eastern this morning here on cspan stop also on cspan. Org and you can listen for free cspan radio app. This afternoon on cspan, the center for strategic and International Studies will host a discussion on private Sector Development in afghanistan. It starts at 1 00 p. M. Eastern also like on cspan, online at cspan. Org, and with the free cspan radio app. Coming up tomorrow, the u. S. House will be back from is rings giving recess. Members expected to take up a bill directing the department of agriculture of interior to update the terms used to refer to racial minority. Wednesday, legislation requiring all members of congress and staff to complete mandatory antiharassment and antidiscrimination training during each session of congress. The measure was introduced by two women in congress. Watch live coverage from the floor of the u. S. House later this week right here on cspan. Capital, side of the the u. S. Senate comes in a session at four clock give eastern today to consider judicial nominations. The rest of the week focuses on the republican tax bill slips in a Budget Committee working on a version of the legislation that will include oil gelling in the Arctic National wildlife refuge. Expecting the bill to have the senate floor later in the week. Senate floor coverage always live on our companion network cspan2. Cspan bus is traveling across the country on our 50 capitals to her. We recently stopped in baton rouge, louisiana asking folks come a what is the most important issue in their state . The number one issue facing my district continues to be flood recovery. In baton rouge, we had a historic flood in 2016. My citizens and my district right now are forced to deal with issues regarding loans. The government considers those to be duplication of benefits. Right now we are having trouble giving those families the necessary dollars to recover because without state run programs, they have to do. P. M. Out the duck the amount they receive through the fda loans. We are working with our congressional delegation. It is a tough issue in our community. The most important state issue to me is restoration. Our coastline is eroding at a very quick rate. Were losing a football field worth of land per hour. I would like for our state to focus on restoring and replenishing our coastline. So future generations can see it. I think the most pressing issue we will face in one we are already working on and have been since the conclusion of our sessions this past year has been our fiscal budget situation here in louisiana. Not in, to a lot of other states. I think ours is a little unique. A bit of what we faced in 2018 is the rolloff of some contemporary revenue temporary revenue and form of taxes that will expire in june 2018. To find ay to be able solution for that both on the revenue side and the expense side are what we will be working on. Voices from the state on cspan. A quick reminder congressman steny hoyer and jerome adams are in Southern Maryland for a discussion on the Opioid Epidemic. Here onsee it live cspan scheduled for 11 30 eastern this morning. Until then, conversation from washington journal about u. S. Efforts in afghanistan. Thestable, afghanistan and Pakistan Bureau chief for the washington post. Howt us off by reminding us long the u. S. Has been in afghanistan now and what is the Current Situation . Guest well, it has been 16 years since the taliban was overthrown and the