This week on q and a, mary talks about his book president mckinley, architect of the american century. What was life like back in 1897 through 1901 in the u. S. . While i think the most important thing was that the country was burgeoning. It was expanding and poised to move to radically into the world. America is an expansionist country. We talked about james k. Polk and how he expanded the country on the north american continent. But, what mckinley did was push out into the pacific and atlantic and caribbean the way another president had it. It happened because america was building and industrial base, was building Economic Growth and economic wherewithal, was building a navy. Mckinley had a lot to do with it, but it began before him. It was gaining more and more interest in building the panama canal across central america. When we have ended up with conflict, serious conflict in the caribbean with the spanish empire, which controlled and owned cuba, it was inevitable that we would not only go to war with spain but that we would kick spain out of the caribbean, we would pick up significant numbers of their possessions and become an empire. To ask you about the personal William Mckinley for we go on. How would you describe him if we had him here . He was aughing because tough guy. He was a tough nut for me to crack. I have written a number of biographies and i thought i was good at bringing people to life. But kimi was not easy to bring to life. Andid not keep a diary wrote no memoirs, because he was killed in office. But you hardly wrote any letters. There is very little written record of what he was thinking or how was he was or how he was feeling or what he thought about this guy or that person. I was struggling with the book. My friend David Ignatius at the washington post, who read my manuscript, touched on it and said this guy is a mystery. Because he was a consequential and effective president. Or whynot figure out how he was able to a comp us what he did, because he was indirect. E was an incrementalist he was a manager. He was not a man of force. It turns out that, without that force, he had amazing capacity to manipulate people and manipulate them into doing the things he wanted them to do while they thought it was their idea. Once i captured that, you could see what he was doing and how he was manipulating. I think there was a silent, quiet drama that emerged out of the dale. I want to go back to the 2009 interview that we had here we were talking about james polk. You will see this clip. This was not my idea. The idea came from my editor, alice mayhew, who is legendary as someone who loves narrative history and has a passion for american history. She asked me, during a discussion, when i was coming up with ideas for books. She said, we will come up with something. What do you know about the mexican war . Good knowledge the same thing happened here. The editor did not like your ideas and he said do one on mckinley. My editor was alice may use but, jonathan was her boss. He had a bigger position at Simon Schuster. A two bookotten contract with simon and schuster to do a book on the presidency, which i did. Then, a book on 1850s, a passion of mine. How america fell apart and had to go to war to get stitched back together. I wanted to do it through a prism that i thought might be revealing of the prism of the two crazy states that were driving us to war, massachusetts and south carolina. That contract was signed and delivered. But, jonathan, relatively new at Simon Schuster was reading my book on the presidency in manuscript form and he liked it. He knew i had done polk and the polk book got significant attention. So he went to alice and said, i wonder if we should not keep mary on president s. Based on his book on the presidency, i am intrigued by mckinley. So, they asked if i would be willing to switch to this other subject. I wasnt sure about it. We had a meeting in new york and i waxed eloquent on 1850s and maybe a little less eloquent on the mckinley. But, jonathan said he was not sure exactly how to market a book on a decade because those kinds of books do not have natural selling propulsion. But he knew how to market a book on mckinley. So he said, take a couple of weeks, your call, and give it some thought and let me know what you decided. I said i do not need two weeks. I want to write books now. I was ready to move on to the northwest for most of my time. Nd had given up my job i had since found another job and i wanted to write books. I said i want to write books for you guys and one do think you will sell. What job did you leave and which one do you have now . Spent many years at congressional court. I was the editor there and ceo for 12 years. It was a wonderful job but the the job got sold and i was on moores. As a result, i ended up as the editor of the National Interest magazine, a highend magazine on foreign policy. When i was ready to move to the northwest, i gave up that position and started the thenley book your after mckinley book was finished, i was on the board of directors of a nonprofit that oversees a magazine and publishing company, called the american conservative. It is my political orientation. Magazine found itself without an editor and asked if i would step in. So i did. That was about one year ago and im having a good time but going back and forth between the islands and Washington State north of seattle. Between the Good Washington and the bad washington. On the mckinley book, would you go to find out what he was like . You struggled with what his person was like, but how did you figure out . There wasnt a lot of documentation in terms of what he was thinking. So you had to go to people who were around him. He had a wonderful assistant, he called his secretary, but i would call them the cheese chief of staff. George kept a diary. So you got a sense of what he was saying and thinking. Other people kept diaries. There were interviews done many, many years ago with people who were around mark hanna, who was close to mckinley and those interviews yielded good anecdotes and stories. Newspaper articles. You had to scour everything there was that he had anything to do with to piece it together. Ultimately, i think it did come together. Of mark cannot, one man that leptin is a guy named and this book was endorsed by karl rove and here he is talking on this network about mckinley. [click] republicans held at the house for 26 out of 36 years. The only time they lose power is when they divide among themselves as they do in 1912. They hold more governors and state legislators can we do until today. The mayors of most major cities, during this time, are mainly were republican. Mckinley has created this coalition of Industrial Workers and smalltown farmers who have their own farms and the traditional Small Business allies of the republican parties and Union Veterans and it becomes an Unstoppable Coalition for over three decades. Where did mckinley grow up and how did he get into politics . He grew up in ohio, smalltown ohio. Town calledittle lisbon, ohio and then poland, ohio. He went to college, that sick in his freshman year, went back to poland. By the time he recuperated they never knew what it was he had to go to work, because the family was stretched, as families were during the economic downturn. So he got a job as a postal clerk and a schoolteacher, doing both and he was doing that at age 18 when the civil war broke out. Stanley was always highly, strongly, passionately evolutionist and hated slavery. He grew up in the climate. His mother was very bright and a reader and they got the new york tribune, the weekly new york tribune, run by Horace Greeley who was one of the leading abolitionists in america. So he ingested that commentary. He i would not say probably gave himself a couple of days to think it over the quickly enlisted in the United States army as a private. He spent four years in the service, during the civil war. He rose up to brevet major. Have a his he did not sense of what fear might be or how it might be used to keep you out of crazy situations. I have to tell one quick anecdote. Sergeant. Uartermaster he was at the battle of antietam , the Bloodiest Day in american history. He was away from the battle, from the action. He was making sure everybody got food and other provisions. But, there was a unit that found itself isolated and could not get out of this situation it was in. This particular unit had been fighting since early in the morning. They had no breakfast or lunch, had run out of water and this was the late afternoon. Extremist andere that unit was not going to be in fighting fitness at all. Fromley guide his head three miles away that he was going to load up a wagon and get that white into the troops. He found a guide to volunteer with him, loaded up the wagon, and started moving towards the clearing with the battle was. He ran into two officers who told him to get back, he cannot get there, forget it. He ignored them after they left and went through the clearing, at the back of his wagon shot off but i managed but managed to get a significant amount of provisions to the troops. Officere a commissioned after that crazy deed and continued to rise up as a result of similar experiences and similar battlefield actions. How did he get elected to the house of representatives and how long was he there . After the civil war, he decided he wanted to become a lawyer. I think he knew he wanted to become a congressman. His mentor was his commanding b hayes,were deferred who became a congressman before the civil war ended. Hayes loved mckinley. Hayes is also from ohio. Yes. He wanted to follow into his footsteps. Hayes told him no. He said you could make more money and be very rich by age 30 or 40 if you went into industrial activity. And there would be an industrial explosion. But that was not what he wanted. Preserved theully letter but discarded the advice. He became a lawyer, moved to canton, ohio, which becomes his hometown with sister had been teaching school. He emerges as a civic leader. He was in veterans organizations, he joined the methodist church. Everything he seemed to join, he rose up into leadership positions. Chamber of commerce, he became the president. The church, he became the superintendent of sunday school. And on and on. Surprising that he was wellknown in his community. When a vacancy emerged in the house of representatives, he went four and one. How may different districts did he serve any and how often was he disrupted gecko did he leave that all . He was up areas person. It was a precarious situation. Redistricting today and gerrymandering and the problems with the Supreme Court and when is it going to do. In those days, it was appomattox that if the democrat controlled legislation, they would mess with your district. And that happened. Instance, after his first and second term, then his third term, he lost. But he only lost after a recount that took quite some month, almost a year. He did not know he had lost his seat until after he had been back in washington, continuing to represent the district. It and back and regained continued to have it. He was in the house for 14 years. He became the greatest protectionist in america and was chairman of the ways and Means Community committee. Helpeated a tariff bill to with various industries and he found himself on the outs because we were beginning to move into a recession and businesses to the occasion to raise prices. The tariff had not gone into effect yet. The democrat went after republican incumbents. It was a terrible year in 1890. Let me show you some video. You go back to the late 1800s and he is interested in protecting tariffs. This is from this summer, where the current president of the United States, trump had this to say about tariffs. [click] the great president from the state of ohio, William Mckinley. You know him . Does anyone know that, is . He understood when america protects our workers and industries, we open up a higher and better destiny for our people. We do not protect our people. Tariffs,n protective the similarity between donald trump and mckinley. Im going to try and do it as briefly as i can. The country has had, from the beginning, a tradition of politicians and Political Parties who believe it was important to set barriers of goods coming into the country to. Rotect domestic producers goes all the way back to alexander hamilton, our first treasury secretary, who was a protectionist in that sense. Hamilton, there are two things to be said. Number one, his tariffs were no more than 8. 5 on goods coming in. Heelys said, that once an industry got established, there was no particular reason to have those. What you not politics work. Once you get it you cannot let go of it. The federalists were protectionist. The whigs were protectionist. Abraham lincoln was a protectionist. The subsequent party, the Republican Party was protectionist in those days. That you cannt identify great times of growth in america with protective tariffs and identify terrell full times with protective tariffs and the same could be said of the free trade. Tariffs are a factor. During Mckinley Program during mckinley probing time, what were the percentages on tariffs . The neighborhood of 50 on a lot of goods and they were on a lot. The interesting thing about mckinley, which the president did not mention, was that, as he became president , he discovered something. He discovered that his views were changing. The reason was because he understood that america was becoming in explosive producer of goods, both agricultural and industrial. Market ar that the huge market of america was not going to be sufficient to absorb the goods from this amazing country going through that amazing confirmation transformation. In order for prosperity to continue, it was necessary for america to sell goods overseas. And you cannot do that in any significant way if you have Major Barriers from goods coming in. You do not have anything to trade. Would you say the tariff world is like now . How much do we charge for the goods coming in and how much do other turn trees countries charge for our goods . The big factor is not so much tariffs. , whichina is doing to us the president very effectively blasted during the campaign, it is not Tariff Barriers that they are putting into. NonTariff Barriers . All kinds of benefits that the government can give to their domestic producers so they can out produce their competitors from other countries. Those kind of things. Subsidies, any other that theenefits government bestows upon their domestic producers. How popular was the mckinley tariff and how popular was in being used. It was not popular. Because of what i was mentioning about how prices were raised and everyone said, this is not working. Cleveland, he succeeded the. Of time when the mckinley tariff was an active in 1890. Grover cleveland, the traitor,eing a republican democrat he brought down the tariffs marginally. Mckinley probably put them back up. In the meantime, mckinley had crafted this concept of reciprocity. Reciprocity was not unlike what we might call fair trade today. In the sense that he advocated Bilateral Agreements with countries in which both countries would reduce their barriers to foster trade across those borders. So, that was the result of his recognizing that we needed to be able to develop markets overseas in order to ensure the continuation of prosperity. Go back to that time. When he was in the United States house. When did he meet his wife and how did he meet her . Before he went into politics. He even offered not to go into politics. It is a poignant story. It is a defining story about mckinley. Mckinley was maybe one of the really finest human beings who was ever made it to the white house. He was a genuinely fine guy. Although he was calculating more than he let on. Nonetheless, he was genuinely a nice guy. Saxton, the bell of canton. Her father was welltodo, her grandfather brought a Printing Press from pennsylvania and started a successful newspaper. On thater built business and got into banking, mining, development. Very welltodo. They had multiple servants. Sachsenhausen on the main street of canton. She was a scintillating young woman. She was smart, petite and attractive. She was effective, clever. Her ate wanted to move the appropriate age. She picked mckinley. She liked his stability and good manners and his ambition and his ability to bring people to his side. They were married. It was a storybook name. I think there were 1000 people totheir wedding, according the canton newspaper, owned by her father. I do not know if that was true. He waseless, and gravitating towards running for congress, at that time. He had a daughter within a year of their marriage, katie. Then, year later, she was pregnant again. Things began to go awry in a rush, and a crunch. In a most makes it seem like there was a terrible fate that was befalling this young woman and her husband. During her pregnancy, she learned her mother was dying. She was close to her mother. She took a hard that may have contributed to a troublesome pregnancy will or not. Nevertheless, it was a tough pregnancy. Born, another daughter named after her, i dont. Dont ida. Baby was not healthy and died five months later. She went into a deep depression. It was not clear she was going to come out of it until her sister said, william just to woo her out of it. , she had developed some sort of accident. It is not sure what it was. It might have been some spinal injury. Aybe she fell off a carriage her mobility was affected and she had a hard time walking through the rest of her life. At different times it was sometimes worse and sometimes better. Even the white house, she could get down the stairs, but going up the stairs did not work. The elevator did not work often and he would have to carry her. She was called an invalid and she was only intermittently. Another thing happened, the development of epilepsy. He would have epileptic fits and those fits it was considered a mental disease and people ended up in institutions. William decided and never evenin his devotion as she became a different person , from the scintillating, there, fun, sometimes out , she became sedentary, her thinking became inward, she became peevish. And itpted all of that never wavered in his devotion to her. It is a poignant story and became famous in america. He gained a lot of political point for being as devoted as he was to this woman who sometimes struggled through life. What was the difference in age . That is a good question. I think the age difference was about eight years. Hatted he deal with epilepsy and her illnesses in the public spotlight . They try to avoid that but could not all the time. If you had a dinner party, for example, and he always tried to sit next to her. But if there are guests, sometimes he can. Would always take a napkin her face would become contorted and she would go into a hissing sound and he knew what that was. He would take a napkin and drape it over her face and he would go on as if nothing had happened. He would know when it was over and he would remove the napkin and she would be like she didnt know what happened. A lot of their friends and even acquaintances did not know her that well sort of understood and did not talk about it much and passed along as if it wasnt such a big deal. In your research, how much publicity was there about her . There was publicity in terms of her being in invalid. It was publicity she was often in a wheelchair and did not seem selfconscious about that, which was interesting. Very undery was kept wraps. They did not want that to get out and it never was. Press, thethe into greatdid not go detail. No one really knew what was going on. But she was under a lot of medication, also. That might have affected some of her behavioral traits. He get elected governor of ohio and how long was the governor . He lost his seat in congress believetwo refused to this was in any way a reflection of his views on protectionism. He wanted to be president and did not know where to go. When you lose a seat, you lose political momentum. He thought about waiting two years and running for a seat again. But, he decided maybe the governorship was the best steppingstone. So he ran for governor and there was an incumbent democrat who was effective as a politician and popular. He had to roll over that gentleman, which he did and he served to twoyear terms. If William Mckinley were here today, where would he fit in these parties or in ideology . Mckinley would be, it is hard to say. If you look in our lifetime at the republican turmeric democrat, he would probably be a moderate republican. Maybe now rockefeller republican. That a Mark Hatfield or senator morgan or moderate to liberal republican, with strong views , freeeconomics enterprise. Probably, somewhat more liberal and onn racial matters social issues. When he first meet Teddy Roosevelt . I am not sure when he met him the first time. But he knew him vaguely when he topme president and many republicans were agitating to have Teddy Roosevelt be appointed assistant naval secretary. He was not sure he wanted to give that man that job because he had heard that roosevelt was always agitating every body and he was out of control much of the time. Mckinley was a control freak in a lot of ways. He did not like chaos. That he wasfriends not sure he felt that roosevelt was behave himself would behave himself in office. So manyevelt had admirers and friends and his friends loved him. They really went to bat for him. The result was that he finally exceeded to their request and allowed roosevelt to become assistant david secretary assist the navy secretary. The secretary was a massachusetts former governor by the name of john long and long was a little in firm. He needed rest a bit. He liked to take the afternoon off, but discovered he was afraid to compare queue wasnt sure what the assistant naval secretary would do in his absence. He was issuing orders for ships to move here and there. He liked roosevelt and thought he was brilliant. But he felt that the guy was out of control. But, mckinley liked him and liked to go for buggy rides in the afternoon and he had certain companion to go with them often and other close friends. One of the people he would invite relatively frequently was roosevelt, because he was entertaining and energetic and fun. You point out in your book and i can read it he always got his way, mckinley. In part, because he never cared who got the credit. You say later that roosevelt always cared that he got the credit. Roosevelt never shared credit with anybody. His own kids said that he desperately wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the courts at every funeral. He had to be the center of attention at all times. Mckinley had a totally different approach. But, mckinley was more calculating the and he appeared and i think there is an anecdote around that same page where congressman named Ben Butterworth talked to a newspaper reporter and he is quoted. To arworth is talking reporter about mckinley and trying to make a point. I will explain it. He said, is mckinley and i were working walking through an orchard with one bearing tree and that tree had but to apples, mckinley would walk under that tree, pick one, put it in his other, take ahe bite and say, then, you like apples. Butterworth was a great admirer and friend of hannah, a little more weary of mckinley, partly because he realized that, whereas a lot of people thought mark can i ran mckinley, manipulated mckinley, he realized that mckinley always got his way. He always got all the apples. Wended mark hanna hook up with mckinley in the state of ohio . It is a great story because mark hanna fell in love with the guy ben foraker and foraker was a prominent republican politician in ohio and he was emerging and he became governor. Mark hanna led been a successful industrialist, very, very rich and very politically motivated, wanted to get an ohio man in the white house. The one he had in mind was john william the brother of sherman, the great general of the civil war. Sherman was getting up in years but he wanted to get the presidency. So, he was working to get foraker into the governorship and sherman and the white house. He got foraker into the governorship. Two years later it was time for everyone to come together and work to get sherman into the white house. Foraker became unsteady in his support of sherman and james g there major figure was a question about whether he might run. At the convention, foraker demonstrated that maybe he was prepared to abandon sherman. That was more than mark hanna could take. He believed in loyalty, first and foremost. Meanwhile, when a movement in merged in the convention, it was not obvious sherman could get the nomination that she didnt. A lot of people said maybe mckinley is our man. Mckinley stood up in the convention, dramatically, and said he will not accept any support for president. He was there to support john sherman and he was not going to entertain any kind any action that would call attention, in any way, any suggestion that he would wait in his devotion to sherman. His stock went up amazingly and foraker pull bang stock declined. Habit did he win in the convention when he was nominated . He basically had it. Their work no significant opportunity opposition. How they did he went the presidency and who did he win against . He ran against William James bryant and it was the big currency issue, the question about the cross of gold and will be expand silver. Of silverree coinage to expand the money supply because a lot of farmers and rule people felt like they were being beleaguered by the bankers of the northeast, restricting the money supply. Interesting question, whether that was true or not. Nevertheless, that was a huge issue. It asey emerges as an. Xplosion they shall not crucify us on a cross of gold. They shall not put that crown of thorns. He stand up at the podium and filters his fingers down like there is blood coming down his face and puts his arms outstretched like a cross of gold and the democrats went crazy. But, mckinley stayed with gold. Callunched, what you might the first educational president ial campaign in which you realize he would have to explain issues to the American People. He won by a significant margin, but i do not remember the percentages. He won strongly. And he beat William James bryant and the let the next election. Was a bigger . Figure. By that time, mckinleys presidency had been successful in terms of Economic Growth and. He emergence of prosperity mckinley ended mckinley managed to take this thing away from William Jenning ryans, silver advocacy. Line here to read that we cannot get to in this hour. Im going to jump to another scenario, because you alluded to it earlier. The u. S. As a monitor story and what got the monitor in trouble . And was that all about . Talk to the cuba situation, puerto rico thomas payne, the philippines, bus that with the monitor story. They it exploded. The main. Thank you. The main what happened to the main and why was it where it was . I will have to backtrack. , since number one colony it had lost the route the 19th cuba. Y most colonies, was philippines, puerto rico, guam. They had those places. Significants because they got a lot of commerce, sugar particularly, but other things from cuba and it worked for them a tremendous way. But, the cubans, like the mexicans earlier and others had wanted independence and there was a 10 year insurrection about two years before mckinley was elected. It was devastating to the island and spain. Another insurrection was in progress when mckinley was elected. Cuba, ant a general to guy named weiler, who was brutal in his effort to end this insurrection. People,l that he forced not just insurrectionists, but ordinary people trying to live, into these camps so they could not support the insurrection. Todid not have the capacity feed or close or take care of them and they died in huge numbers. ,n the next states of america he was looking at this 90 miles away from florida and is saying this is unconscionable and decided it was destabilizing the entire caribbean. Chaos, descended into which could very well happen, there was no guarantee that a major european would not come in with more force the end spain could muster and take over the island and be even more of a threat to americas influence. Program mckinleys predecessor, cleveland, the not have much sympathy for the cubans. He called them the rascally was a and basically status quo guy and thought the best thing to happen would be for spain to remain in cuba. But that was becoming increasingly untenable. Mckinley comes in. He takes a different view. He has more sympathy for the cubans. He does not want to go to war with spain, but he wants them to end the war, negotiate and end to it, enter into an autonomy arrangement or get out. Stay basically said, you cant tell us that. But, mckinley would not yield. When he sent the battleship maine into the havana harbor to ensure that it was there to help americans who might get caught in the chaos. It exploded in a time when there was passion in this country and cuba and in spain. It made war inevitable. He was trying to avoid that war, but he was apparent for it. 266 americans died in the exposure. Did they ever determine who caused it yet the board of inquiry that the navy created suggested it was from outside the ship here it was done by somebody, some malefactor. Certain research has raised questions. It is probably indeterminate. But people are saying it was internal. Which would have meant that something happened within the ship and it was an accident. I do not think we know. Warren zimmermann, the late anden zimmerman was here you had a little bit of a quarrel because he wrote about roosevelt, hey, logic and, and root. But here is a clip from the interview where he talks about mckinley. He was one of the nicest men that ever held the presidency. He was limited in his vision. He was the president of big business. But he was also a man with a real heart. He was a decorated hubble hero in the civil war. He did not like war. He once said, i have seen war, ive seen the bodies pileup and i do not want to get us into a war. Hes in a lot of the things you said it earlier in the interview. What did you cite his book . I knew warren zimmerman. Helpful to me for that project. He has this view of mckinley that is a very prominent among roosevelt biographers and historians of the. Which is that, mckinley was a leaf in the wind. He did not know what was going on, he was a passive man and these big event occurred. They say, yes we know the big, consequential events emerged during his presidency. But he was not responsible. My book takes that on. Warren, for the wonderful book that he wrote, and i commend it. But he has a misinterpretation of mckinley. 80 is not alone in that. It is my aim to tell the American People that they have a president who was very consequential, very effective and knew what he was doing, managed events and he does not get credit for. Im trying to give him more credit. Go back to the main and the 266on and 200 and 66 american deaths. After that, what happened and what was settled as a result of the war . Between explosion and the declaration of war, i will not go into all of what happened. But war became inevitable and i think mckinley knew it. So he sent admiral george dewey, who had the fleet near hong kong , sent him to the philippines, where he destroyed the spanish fleet, destroyed every ship in maybe onewith fatality among the americans. I think that was a boiler room person who had a heart attack. If you were wounded. A few were wounded. Then he sent his Atlantic Fleet to intercept the spanish Atlantic Fleet and destroy it. He ordered his army to land in cuba, near santee area santiago and move there and take santiago. Which he did. Famous Teddy Roosevelt rideout right up. Ride up. He led his troops up there in a delicate time, a difficult time. It was quite heroic, full hearty but he full foolhrardy. Staying for peace. He brought in the french , to bedor to washington the intermediary to represent them and their interest in the negotiation. This guy was hoping and thinking that president mckinley would be compassionate. We mailed them, and we would not get more glory out of a tough negotiation. He did not know what he was in for because mckinley was very, very tough and the negotiations. He would not enter into talks unless it was clear that the spanish would leave cuba. He made it clear from the beginning and there was legislation to this effect that we had no designs on cuba. But he said we are going to get puerto rico, leave the philippines in our hands but for distribution, and we need defending island median island need a and need an island. The spaniards were devastated that we were telling them we would end them as an imperial power. How did mckinley get hawaii . It happened around the same time. Cleveland did not want to annex understood. Mckinley while he was not a man of vision, he did have a huge imagination. Like roosevelt, like henry cabot lodge, who had this view of american greatness. Category, buthat he had a way of seeing events clearly and understanding their implications. He realized that the Hawaiian Islands were one of the two or three most strategic spot on the whole globe. From them, you can control a huge amount of territory and not just ocean. But also land along the waters. For . At do we pay nothing. Who had it before us . That is interesting. I do not think americans understand it. The polynesian people, Indigenous Peoples of hawaii. Spot inuch an amazing the middle of the north pacific, people came there, willing ships came and americans came for various reasons. Then, the sugar plantations emerged and the sugar was an amazingly high business where you could make huge amounts of money. Americans flocked in there to run these sugar plantations and get rich. In getting rich, they felt they should have more political power. So they arrested political power from the polynesians. It was a monarchy. The final monarch was queen will. I cannot say her name. It was a hawaiian name and i cant say it properly. She wanted to preserve her monarchy, but the americans, not us, people like come from america for generations. She married one of them of american origin. And took over the island said he want to be part of america. The main thing to be recognized is that, if we had not taken those islands, japan would have. Japan had a significant claim on those islands, because those plantation owners had brought in lots of japanese workers in the field. They were not being treated very well. Agitating they were for better treatment of their indigenous japanese, working in the island. Through that, they had a claim. Germany wanted colonies anywhere they could get them as they wanted to be like england. If we had not had those islands, japan would have gone the islands. I want to show you video. This turned out to be every enactment of the death of a man named leon show lars. Of one hereenactment was executed. When he was executed. What led up to this . He killed mckinley. He went into a receiving line where mckinley was greeting people at the panamerican exposition in buffalo new york. He had his hand in a sling were a bandage, as if it had been injured. Mckinley reached to shake his he put ad, whereupon pistol to mckinleys chest and fired. That bullet did not penetrate too much, but, mckinley stepped back and the second bullet entered his abdomen. It was never able to be removed. Ultimately, mckinley developed infection or sepsis, and died. I want to repeat that is a reenactment. Leading up to that was a sixweek train trip. Before that, ida got sick. Ida almost died in San Francisco of what was essentially blood poisoning. She had an infection in her finger thats bread to her blood. Deayh. Very close to th. They were scheduled to go to the panamerican exposition earlier in the year. But they could. So it was rescheduled for september. That was when the assassin was able to get there and do his deed. What, for you is the thing you learned about mckinley that you did not expect to . I learned he was a man of force. Much more than he gets credit for. There in lay in interesting story. That was the mystery ignatius identified. How did this guy with this easy temperament and pleasant way about him and incrementalism of management, how did he do what he did . You did the james polk biography. He died after the white house. What is the difference between those two . And terms of anything. Mckinley is sympathetic. You will like him and polk is not particularly sympathetic. You are not sure you like him. He is constrictive and not very pleasant and consumed with his own demons. Mckinley did not have any demons. In that sense, you like him. Will you write another biography . I probably will. We pondering this question and have not hit the mother load. We will come up with something to get our juices flowing. And all of the writings that you have done, which individual was your favorite . The most fascinating and most crazy and greatest father was joe off on, by far. Our guest has been robert w mary. The book is called president mckinley american architect. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Always a pleasure. For free transcripts, visit qanda. Org you enjoyed this q and a, here are others you might enjoy. William field on his book, the president s house. There is also scott miller who writes about the assassination of William Mckinley in the president and the assassin. And another interview, ronald feynman talks about other assassination attempts made against president and president ial candidates from Andrew Jackson to barack obama. You can find most q and a programs online at cspan. Org. Cspan a student cam video document competition is underway and students are busy at work, sharing their experience through twitter. It is not too late to enter. Our deadline is january 18, 2018