Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 11212017 20171121

There also is this big news out of nebraska. Regulators have approved the construction of the keystone xl pipeline through that state. We want to get your reaction to it. If you support the keystone xl pipeline, called 202 7488000. If you oppose it, call 202 7488001. You can weigh in on social media at cspan to vijay for our twitter handle and you can post a comment on facebook. Com cspan. Heres the headline one more time. It is from the omaha world herald. It is approved, but hurdles likely remain. That is out of omaha. Joining us by phone right now is ellen gilmer, illegal reporter there. A legal reporter there. Guest thanks for having me. Host explain what regulators and nebraska decided and what it all means. Guest regulators decided that keystone xl can build its pipeline across the state. Trans canada, the company that backed the pipeline, did not get what it wanted. Trans canada had a certain route it wanted to build on and state regulators said you can build, but you need to build on this other route that tracks with an existing pipeline and would be a little less destructive to the environment. Trans canada, what is the reaction to the decision regulators made so far . Aret environmentalists promising to continue fighting the pipeline. Relieved thatre the preferred route that transcanada was pushing was not approved and they hope to throw some economic hurdles that would keep the pipeline from getting built. Landowners along the original route are relieved. Landowners who would be affected by the new route obviously have some concerns about that. Is keeping pretty mama about all of it. They said they are reviewing the decision and thinking about how its going to affect cost and schedule. Host remind us how we got here. How did this project for start and what has the controversy been like since then . Guest its been a pretty wild ride. This pipeline was first proposed in 2008 so nearly a decade ago. The Obama Administration conducted about seven years of studies looking at environmental impacts, climate impacts, economic impacts. Eventually president obama rejected the pipeline a couple years ago. The Trump Administration when it came into power decided to revive the project. They signed off on the most important federal permit for the pipeline earlier this year. The Nebraska Public Service commission was sort of the last big state regulatory hurdle standing the way of construction. Host we read just recently about an oil spill in the neighboring state, south dakota. What happened there exactly and will it impact this process moving forward . Guest thats right. There was an oil spill last week , about 5000 barrels of oil from the original Keystone Pipeline. That is keystone one as some people call it. Its the original Keystone Pipeline going through the area. Its billed in south dakota. The Public Service commission went right ahead with its decision. And environmentalists others have said that the commission should maybe hold off on a decision and look at this oil spill and see whether the new proposed pipeline could do the same. The psc made its decision. There is no real impacts other than renewed public pressure on regulators and trans canada to keep that from happening. Host you speak of public pressure. I was going to ask next of the legal challenges ahead following this nebraska decision. What are you expecting . Guest thats right. There definitely will be legal challenges. This is definitely not over. Lawsuitsee some new in state court . Probably over the next month from environmental groups, indian tribes, landowners along the route, and even its possible transcanada to challenge the decision because as discussed, they did not get what they wanted. So far they have not committed to doing that, but thats a possibility. We will also see more pressure on the federal government to do a new or at least a supplemental Environmental Review now that the route has changed. A lot of folks think the federal government needs to take a fresh look at any impacts from that route. If the federal government decides not to do that, we would see do litigation on that issue. Host as we wrap up and get started with the conversation with the risk viewers, explain the overall purpose of this type line and whether transcanada is still interested in this project. Is it viable for them . Guest the pipeline would move oil from canadian oilsands in alberta down to the u. S. Through nebraska to connect to refineries and existing infrastructure toward the gulf coast. It would provide oil for us t. Its an open question as to whether economic support the construction of the pipeline. Transcanada has said they are thinking about the cost of all this. They have an open season right from potential oil shippers. They have said they have enough interest, but they dont have firm contracts just yet. We will just have to wait and see on that. Host anything else to look forward on the story . Guest keep looking out for the environmental pressure and pressure from tribes and landowners on both the State Government and federal government. Host ellen gilmer is a reporter for ene news. Thanks for the update on the keystone xl pipeline. We will start getting to your calls in a moment or two as soon as they start coming in. Heres a headline from the Washington Post. They read that the commission and nebraskas to back an alternate route was counter to companys and forced the to arrange easements from different landowners. Transcanada had portrayed the alternative route as unworkable and further litigation is likely. Couldmmissions decision still allow trump to declare victory on a campaign issue. Project with an executive order in his first week in office, reversing a decision by president barack obama in late 20 15 to deny transcanadas application to build a pipeline through montana, south dakota, and nebraska because of climate concerns and nebraskas ecological concerns. That is in the Washington Post today. Here is the wall street journal headline on this. Pipeline get state backing, the brusca officials approved the Keystone Pipeline on monday, removing the last regulatory hurdle and the future remains far from certain. It was a threeto vote in the Nebraska Public Service commission. They approved the vote that would extend the Pipelines Network to carry oil one 700 miles 1700 miles from alberta in canada to steel city, nebraska. Here is reaction coming from robert who is in support of the pipeline from hazard, kentucky. Caller how are you doing this morning . Host good. Tell us why you support the keystone xo pipeline. Support the keystone xl pipeline due to jobs coming to the states and it will help people up and down from canada to mexico. What happened in eastern contact kentucky is that our jos were taken underground. They took the coal from us here. Maybe if that was to be working, some of our coal miners can maybe work out there. We are struggling here in Eastern Kentucky due to that. We need stuff like that in america to keep things pumping and to keep things going with coal, gas, oil. Im for all that. My names rubber in a support call and gas and all that. Host what do you make about the Environmental Concerns that some have raised and that there was an oil spill last week . Caller i very do understand that. The bp one that went into the ocean, that is bad. It seems like the Coal Companies and the Oil Companies could all get together and get a group not the epa, but it would be a group better than the epa that would oversee all that stuff and get to problems before it hits if you understand. Host got the point. Lets move on to don in kansas this morning in opposition of the pipeline. Tell us your thoughts and reasoning. Caller good morning. The Koch Brothers own a large refinery down on the texas gulf coast that currently refines venezuelan tar sands oil. They would like to start refining this oil from canada. Now the tar sands up in alberta are nearly as stranded situation right now. They are the most environmentally damaging oil on earth. They also are expensive. So this is a gigantic subsidy for the Koch Brothers and other fossil fuel interests who want to get that resource out of canada and export it. This isnt going to be for the u. S. This will be sold to east asia to pay higher prices. We need to move toward renewable, sustainable types of energy, which are becoming increasingly competitive against fossil fuels. Thank you. Host thanks for calling. We have a couple facebook comments. Stephen writes hugh opposes the by tim in this sense of alberta ituminous sands of alberta are very carbon intensive field of the by two men cannot be utilized if we hope to stabilize the climate. But i guess people such as the prime mister of canada, who talks about Climate Change as if he knows the science, are awaiting a technological fix to remove co2 from the atmosphere. Lots more calls coming in on all of this, including robert from hayward, california. Caller i used to do underground locating for the county and you cannot imagine the miles and miles of oldthe ground. I would be much more worried about that than a brandnew pipe. Trust me. Host anything else, robert . He is gone. Lets try tom from arkansas. Good morning. Caller this is tom from arkansas. I very much in favor of the pipeline. Blytheville, the railroad runs through the middle of town shoul. This past week i counted almost 110 cars with oil moving to the towns moving at 55 miles an hour. We are sitting in a fault zone. If you look at the traffic coming can see where the water splashes up. We are sitting on 2000 feet of mud. The rail line has to be constantly improved. This is a dangerous thing. In canada, the tank cars came off the track. It destroyed the town. They couldnt find traces of it. Warren buffett is the one that owns the santa fe. Thank you very much. Host some of the other headlines the Financial Times writes that nebraska clears the keystone xl pipeline with route changes in the green lobby vows to fight on. Two the wall street journal, they talk about opponents. Here, when the original Keystone Pipeline leaked about 5000 barrels of oil in south dakota on thursday, forcing transcanada to shut down ,ections of the pipeline landowners, and by mental advocates, and others can still challenge the project in state court though they would need to persuade judges to grant an injunction, a very high hurdle according to analysts. Heres a quote from carin greenpeace. Stood upment that has for nearly a decade to resist keystone xl will not back down. Anything other than transcanadas preferred route is a victory. On, promised to fight arguing that the new route opens the door to more years of review and legal challenges. Other questions still linger over keystone xl at this point, including whether sufficient demand exists for it. Transcanada had struggled to line up customers earlier this year to ship canada oilsands to its eventual destination the on nebraska, the u. S. Gulf coast, according to people familiar with the matter. That is in the wall street journal this morning. We are taking your calls. If you support the keystone xl pipeline, call 202 7488000. If you oppose the pipeline, call 202 7488001. Look forward to more of your comments, including this one from linda, calling from nebraska. Hey, linda. Caller i oppose the pipeline. Host tell us why. Caller if this pipeline breaks and this oil or coal tar gets into our water, our economy, the aquifer, agriculture is based. We are in the usas breadbasket. If this gets into our water and ruins are water source host you are in clarks, nebraska. How far from the pipeline argued . E you . Caller it depends on where it goes. The other thing is Eminent Domain. Can we build something claiming we are a company and build where we want to . No. Can we . Without proper authorities, without proper regulatory . This is not necessarily in our countrys best interest. We are not going to create jobs. I heard that. There are no jobs created by this pipeline. There have been studies done. Nebraska within the potential to ruin how much of our economy. And im not just talking nebraskas economy. We feed the world here. We feed the world. Host anything else you want to add, linda . That itno, i just hope is on transcanada and our leaders conscience. If we ruin our environment, if we ruin our environment, we are done. Thank you. Host that was linda from clarks, nebraska. Cameron writes on twitter, who is responsible for cleaning up the 210,000 Gallon Oil Leak in north dakota from the Keystone Pipeline . Mens south dakota im sure. Anything being done yet . We are taking your calls of support and opposition of the Keystone Pipeline. We have alan calling in and support. Tell us why you support the pipeline. Caller i support the pipeline because its the thing that makes the most sense for keeping. Ur environment safe and clean i dont understand why people are so afraid of oil. Whats the problem . Oil is just plants and animals. I just find it insanely crazy that people do not want to make the shipment of oil safer by putting it in its height. It is not going to be safe on a train. I dont know where to go from here. Host do you see the jobs argument like other supporters do . What do you make of that last caller that says there is evidence that not many jobs are going to be created . Caller im not sure about that. To 2015 excuse the the when obama made 1973 so we can sell oil on the open market versus just the distillates, i dont know if thats a good thing, but maybe it is. Theres going to be jobs created with all this. Oil is not bad. Its just plants and animals. Lets go people com here. Host that was alan from st. Cloud, minnesota. Writing on twitter, if someone is willing to pay for the pipeline, im sure theres a need for it. Theres a story in the New York Times as President Trump revives the terrorist label for pyongyang. They write that the president on monday officially designated north korea as a state sponsor of terrorism, a provocative diplomatic move that he said was aimed at drastically increasing pressure on the rogue nation to abandon its pursuit of nuclear weapons. Is a little bit of what the present had to say about north korea. [video clip] the United States is designated north korea as a state sponsor of terrorism. Shouldve happened a long time ago. Shouldve happened years ago. In addition to threatening the nuclear devastation, north korea has repeatedly supported acts of international terrorism, including assassinations on foreign soil. As we take this action today, our thoughts turn to auto one warmbier a othersuntless affected by north koreas persecution. It supports our maximum Pressure Campaign to isolate the murderous regime that you have all been reading about and in some cases writing about. Treasury department will be announcing an additional section and a very large one on north korea. This will be going over the next two weeks. It will be the highest level of sanctions when its finished over a two week period. The north korean regime must be lawful. It must end its unlawful north korean Ballistic Missile development and cease all support for international terrorism, which it is not doing. Host the times goes on to report that north korea will join sudan, syria and iran at the state department recognizes as those who support repeated acts of international terrorism. That is in the nea New York Times. Washington post has the headline with at t and time warner. Suedustice Department Monday to block at ts bid for entertainment conglomerate time warner, setting the stage for one of the biggest antitrust cases to hit washington in decades. The Justice Departments Antitrust Division is unusual because it challenges a deal that would combine two different kinds of companies a tell Telecommunications Giant with a mediator tennant company. That ifon to write successful, the governments case would send a strong signal across the Business World that washington is no longer looking as kindly on such mergers. That is in the Washington Post this morning. To calls on the Keystone Pipeline. Support or oppose . Robert is calling in support. Good morning. Im calling in today to express my support for the keystone xl pipeline. I think its very important to creating jobs for hardworking americans and helping the United States maintain its energy independence. I think this bill is very unfortunate, but i ultimately think the company will be responsible in cleaning it up. That being the case, i think its more important that we focus on maintaining the pipelines ability to provide that energy to parts of the country that needs it and bolster american jobs. Host any concerns about the environment . Caller yes, absolutely. There are very many in our mental concerns that we have to be wary of. However, the benefits of having this kind of Oil Production in our country far outweigh any environmental considerations. Its important that we hold these Companies Accountable for being responsible for the averment. Environment. Its equally important to make sure they have the ability and the tools that they need to call in and provide parts of the country with the oil they need. Host that was robert in oklahoma. Lets go to ormond beach now. Caller oh yes, ormond beach, florida. A previous caller that supported it said about the oil spill that its only plants and animals. We eat those plants. Goingare all trumpsters along and pushing this agenda. Do you know who trump was going to take for the department of agriculture . A guy by the name of clovis, a rightwing radio talkshow host. They didnt do it, but before that, we had a scientist of there because our food sources are in such danger from Climate Change and incidents like this. When this oil spills, this is a heavy unprocessed oil. Its a mess to clean up. Does anybody remember the bp spill out in the gulf of mexico . Well it is a dead zone there now. Hardly any fish life live. You dont drill and you dont lay pipes near our water or food supply. Get it, idiots . Host that was ormond beach, florida. Before we go back to calls. Heres the official statement that trans canada put out yesterday. As a result of todays decision, we will conduct a review of the Public Service commissions ruling while assessing how the decision would impact the cost and schedule of the project, said russ girling. Statement from transcanada to the nebraska regulators decision that said its ok to build an alternate route through parts of nebraska. You can imagine there will be legal challenges coming according to everything we are reading and hearing this morning. More on your calls from this topic from brian from woodbridge, virginia. Go ahead. Caller the physics behind this is appalling. With a severe high temperatures in the summertime and below freezing temperatures in the wintertime, no plastic or metal is going to hold up. Because of the following and freezing, those pipes are going to burst. When that spill happens, the entire water source will be contaminated and the earth and thats very difficult to clean up your it. Its actually impossible. Across or transport across the highway, theres only a limited amount of oil on a truck. That spill is localized. It can be easily cleaned up. Created, ife jobs you put solar panels on every roof in america, there still a handful of Solar Private Companies Generating nuclear and coal burning plants. Thats 10 times more jobs than with coal and the fossil fuel industries can create. They are longterm jobs. After you build a pipeline, those construction workers will be out of a job. Then you have a few hundred people maintaining the pipeline and we cant maintain it because theres thousands of miles of underground pipelines thats going to burst and it will be a while until you find the fractures when it does bust. By that time, millions of of gallons of oil will leak and thats a lot more danger. You cant eat oil. You can eat plants and animals. Like the person before me, these are trumpsters. They are not in touch with reality. Host that is brian called from woodbridge, virginia. Tiffany is in support from lexington park, maryland. Caller good morning. Iseel like this pipeline good for rust belt states, hoping they are going to get jobs. These are not the types of jobs we want to give our children. These are bluecollar jobs that last for a fin finite amount of time. Environmentalthe impacts far outweigh the jobs they will get for two to three years and our children will pay the price. Host just so im clear, you are against the pipeline. Caller im against the pipeline. Host we had you on the line for supporters so sorry to miss classify you for that. Twitter, we dont need a pipeline for fuel that will never see a mac and homes. Keystone does not benefit anyone industrialists. This is not the first time that transcanada has spilled toxic tar sands and it wont be the last. John is on the line now from pennsylvania. Good morning. Caller good morning. Im going to piggyback on the most recent callers. The guy from oklahoma doesnt know what hes talking about. He was reading from a script, talking about how its going to help our energy. Like the other people said, this is going overseas. Its going directly across the United States. The only thing we are going to get out of it is spills and ruined environment. The Employment Situation the longterm employment is 3540 people. One trump says its thousands and these other knuckleheads say its thousands of jobs, thats for a really limited amount of time and at 35 permanent jobs after that for the entire length of the pipeline. Im opposed to it. The Koch Brothers are the only ones who are going to get rich out of this. Host sean is on the line now from baltimore. What do you think about all this . Caller waste of time. Its going to be a disaster. There was a woman from nebraska who talked about how nebraska feeds the world. Shes right. Look at it like this, people. When you go to the grocery store, you buy clorox in you by your bread and a. Eggs. Guess what . They keep the poisonous chemical separate from your food. Why on earth are they going to put this pipeline through nebraska with all the food they produced . One guy was talking about nature and how its going to destroy the pipeline. Hes absolutely right. You cannot predict the climate. This is going to be disastrous. Did people forget about exxon valdez back in 1989 or 1988 . The bp oil spill . Jobs people talking about thats alive, too. A lie, too. Longterm it will create anything. It will create 50 jobs. Trump is a liar. People believe anything he says. I give it to him. Hes a great con man and he knows how to manipulate and run game on people. You have to give it to 45, telling people because they believe anything he says. In the end, this pipeline will be a disaster and its going to poison people. Just real quick with the guy talking about oil nothing but animals and plants because its from the earth, but volcanic lava is from the earth. Look at what happens when he gets on the land. Its just going to be a disaster. We dont need to build the pipeline. I dont know why we are still using oil. Its crazy. We have regular phones now. Back then we had oil. We still need to move on to other forms of energy. Host we want to get some other voices here. A. M. In washington and on the east coast and we will do this for 25 minutes or so with your calls about the keystone xl pipeline. A major milestone has taken place. Nebraska has approved an alternate pipeline route. This is the headline from the Washington Post. They called it one of the larger regulatory hurdles they have to get past for the project, but there will be plenty of legal challenges lying ahead. Oil drilling has been very much the subject in congress. You might remember in the last couple of weeks that drilling in alaska was being talked about. The house and senate are out this week for thanks giving great, but when they come back, they have a number of fiscal deadlines to take out and it will consider drilling in alaska. Usa today has this headline Congress Moves to drill baby drill in alaska. They write that for decades proponents of oil and gas drilling in Alaskas Arctic National Wildlife refuge is an area rich with Natural Resources that could help the u. S. Drive for energy independence. Now congress may be on the verge of finally handling the permission to deliver on an old republican mantra drill, baby, drill. It was a 1310 vote last week to approve a bill that would allow oil and Gas Exploration and the refuges 1. 5 million acre coastal plain. It will be added to the Senate Tax Reform package that is expected to be put to a vote before the end of the year. You can watch that senate vote when its coming soon on cspan2. They will go to conference on this tax bill if the plans holdout. You can watch the house on cspan. All this is supposed to take place before christmas if the republican schedule holds. Cornell in inglewood, and jersey, what do you think about the pipeline . Caller the pipeline is crazy, but heres what i think. During the summer we had terrible storms. If you want to make a pipeline, it should be for water. Certain states like texas could use water from louisiana. All this could use water from all areas. If youre going to build a pipeline, it should be just for water to produce agriculture. Water is the biggest problem we have in this country right now fresh, clean water. If youre going to build a pipeline that will kill animals and plants, thats crazy. If you are going to build the pipeline, make it for water. Water all over the nation is a problem. Thats my thing. Host lets hear from fred now. Florida. N caller these people dont understand right now that their natural gas and the majority of the natural gas and diesel further trucks is all pipeline. Its the most efficient and safe way. Only thing is that if its underwater, they need to double pipe it. If they dont like these pipelines, parked their cars and sit at home. Host thanks for calling, fred. Joshua is on the line for michigan. What do you think, joshua . Caller my opinion on this is pretty straightforward. I got out of the service in 2014 and i was recruited by an oil rig company. Im against the pipeline. As soon as the deal broke publicly, they went ahead and eliminated a lot of american jobs. I was on the job for about 15 months before i was laid off. I was laid off again. I know personally about 1000 and tha men that have lost their jobs due to the pipeline. My issue with this is not that the oil, the cost of oil. Its that once again we have American Labor that produces good quality stuff and we are outsourcing. We are hurting our economy. We are hurting our bottom line. The way the pipeline is transported, i dont care who excuse me, who says anything about the safety of the pipeline. The pipeline is not safe. Hole spreadcontrol a whol across the world. Its hurting our economy. Its hurting our bottom line. I live in michigan. We in source garbage from canada. They dont want to burn and recycle things to their standards of people send them here so people send them here to be destroyed. Recycle thing and turn them into gas and oil and items. Own,cannot manage their but if we lower our manageable so itsres fo cheaper for a company to transport and delegate angst through us, were doing nothing but settling and we are settling for some other corporation bluecollar guys to make a lot of money while we are struggling to w. We are borderline in a depression for the last pretty much close to my adult life. We have been in the borderline depression. This country struggled enough. To put us in a predicament where we have to struggle even further is just ridiculous. The pipeline needs to go away. We are self sustainable as a country. At some point, america has got to stand up on their own feet again. Host joshua, thanks for calling. Back to the fcc story we mentioned. At the top of the program. The fcc getting ready to roll back some web rules. Are excitedlators to reveal plans on reversing obama era rules that require Internet Service providers to treat all web traffic equally, a move that could fundamentally reshape the internet economy and consumers online experience. They write that the change is expected to be adopted at the fcc Commission Meeting in middecember. It would open the door to a wide range of new opportunities for internet providers, such as forming alliances with content firms to set up their webpages or video speeds at higher quality, and those without such deals. Paid prioritizations were blocked under the 2015 rules, which required all corners of the internet to be equally accessible to consumers and limited the providers ability to favor content, including their own. Heres a Washington Times story. In case you havent heard, haitians in the u. S. Are giving notice of an end to their protected status. The administration monday said they will and special temporary status for haitians, giving them a deadline of 2019 to find another legal status in the u. S. Or risk deportation. The acting Homeland Security said that haiti has recovered sufficiently from the 2010 earthquake that spawned the special status and the country will soon be ready to take back its citizens. Her decision as a middle of the ground a approach, allowing haitians time to prepare and find other means through marriage or jobs to apply for permanent status, but forcision fell far short immigrant rights advocates, who demanded that mr. Green new tps and that congress find a way to grant the haitians a full pathway to citizenship. That is in the Washington Times. Water calls more calls on the keystone xl pipeline. We have john calling from indiana. Caller we are in a content blitzkrieg of a cold war. When people run for high office, its for entitlement or they have something to want to get back at the expense of their host. Are debatingey about going in there and exploring an immense area that would be critical situation for the animal life and habitats and the people that live there. Wake up. We are in a situation where people dont care about this country but for their own interests. We have people in office who basically are against the constitution of america. They want to just allow us as a country they want to dissolve us as a country. Thats pretty much a serious situation. Look under the covers of where they are coming from. They are special interest. They dont care about america. What about this recent oil spill . Who did they send them . Canada. T people from what about american employed people that would take care of the oil spill . Host thank you, indiana. Burleson, texas, tony. You support the pipeline. Tell us why. Caller actually i got the wrong number because i was having such a hard time getting in. Please dont cut me off. Host you oppose the pipeline . Please be brief and make your point. Companyits about our being screwed over by lying politicians that are doing nothing but hurting us. Host what do you mean . Caller about russia and wasting our time shipping heroine in here. Politicians are doing nothing for the American People but hurting us. Its disgusting they are getting away with it. Host lets get back to topic. Kathy is calling from north carolina. You are calling on the oppose line, correct . Tell us why. Caller i was going to say that you hear all the time of the pipelines busting like south dakota. The native americans did not want to run through. A lot of people eat seafood. We eat animals that drink water. How do we know that is not causing cancer and all these diseases . They did not have this a long time ago, but the more we mess with mother nature, the worst its going to get. Host thanks for calling. Several stories about sex misconduct and harassment charges that are out there. A second one has accused senator al franken of minnesota of Sexual Misconduct. Told cnn that the senator pulled him close and grabbed her buttocks while the twos were posing for a picture at the Minnesota State fair in 2010. She says she immediately told her mother and father about the incident and posted on facebook about it according to the network. That is in usa today. About al has a story franken and the headline says, liberals are turning on al franken. The left is starting to turn against senator al franken after second woman accused him of Sexual Misconduct with some liberal groups calling on the democrat to resign. They write franken was facing calls from both parties for a Senate Ethics investigation after he was accused of forcibly kissing leann tweeted in 2006, but a fresh accusation monday that frank and grabbed the woman triggered demands from some liberals for the second term ste center to step down. Lets take a quick call from that. He is in illinois supporting the Keystone Pipeline. Caller good morning and thank you for taking my call. Pipeline because i support the economy. I understand theres a lot of risks and anything when it comes to money, but the chief business of america is business itself. When im saying that, everyones talking about alaska. Everyones talking about wildlife. We have regulation already on the books in alaska. We have it all over the country. Its called the epa. The epa willt allow thousands of miles of pipeline to be built by rusty pipelines. Callers dontt know, give money out each month to businesses that were born there or move their. My aunt lives north of fairbanks. My aunt gets money from the state of alaska and its based on the economy and how much they make. Thatanother irony here democrats keep talking about shutting down american oil industry. Who is producing oil . Saudi arabia, russia, china. They are not enemies. If we are not going to produce it, somebody will. Somebodys going to make the money. We have to buy it. If everyone to keep relying on russia on the left, go for it. I dont. I want to rely on america. Host janet is calling on the line now from michigan. Is it manatee, michigan . Caller good morning. Good morning, america. Im going to come at this from a little bit different angle as to why i finally decided i was opposed. Andst heard this morning this kind of fried me. Nebraskas state law actually did not allow that commission to consider Pipeline Safety when issuing their decision, which just sounded bizarre to me. Things ine of the found out a couple years ago was and i dont think a lot of americans know this. This is a canadian company. If there are spills along the in and on american soil , the american taxpayers are on the line for all costs to clean it up. I just think thats obscene. We have got problems here in michigan. These Companies Just do not tell people whats really going on. We have got problems with the pipeline from emirates, which is another canadian company. Theyre finding all kinds of problems with the pipeline underneath between the upper and lower peninsulas. Pipeline were to start leaking into the great lakes, god only knows what would happen to the economy, not just in michigan but a lot of other states as well. Host thanks for calling. We have about 10 or 12 more minutes left for your calls. There are several other Sexual Harassment claims out there, resulting in many stories in the papers today. In case you havent heard, eight women are now saying that charlie rose, the tv host, harassed them. Thattold the post charlie rose made unwanted sexual advances toward them, including lewd phone calls, Walking Around naked in their presence, or groping their breasts or general areas. The women employees were inspired to work for rose in the late 1990s to as recently as 2011. The age range was 21 to 37 years old at the time of the alleged encounters. His show aired on pbs and bloomberg. He was a cohost this morning at cbs and is a contributing correspondent to 60 minutes. Cbs has suspended charlie rose for now along with pbs and bloomberg tv. Theres also the story that congressman john conyers that the longest serving house members sell the a long settled a wrongful dismissal after a employee was fired after refusing his sexual advances. For former staffers signed affidavits, three of which were notarize, saying that the top democrat on the House Judiciary Committee repeatedly made and engaged in unwanted sexual behavior with this female staff. This is according to buzz feed last night. Theres this piece in usa today and the headline says that Sexual Harassment cases are flooding state legislatures. Year, nearly 40 lawmakers, nearly all men, have been publicly accused by 100 people of some form of Sexual Misconduct or harassment. This is according to usa today and an analysis it got its hands on. The total, which does not include confidential or anonymous complaints or government staffers that have been accused of sexual misdeeds, reflects unprecedented levels of scrutiny on statehouses. You can read more of that in usa today. Thats analysis from the usa today network. Lets go to john waiting in troutdale, virginia. Caller good morning, america. I would like to comment on this. Im opposed to the pipeline and the Keystone Pipeline. Here virginia they have a proposed natural gas pipeline that they want to run through west virginia, virginia, and eventually north carolina. It will take natural gas and exported overseas. The thing is they spilled 216 gallons of oil on the Keystone Pipeline. This is not even the part they are constructing. This is going to be a natural going across course terrain, which is sinkholes, springs, rivers. Theyre trying to tell us its completely safe and that there is an accident, not much will happen. Theres going to be a one mile blast stone on each side of the pipeline. In our state, they passed where you can use Eminent Domain for private company to see zero lance sees your land and trying to say its for the public good. I think its unconstitutional. I dont think how they can safely build, maintain, and keep up a project of the scope. Host lets hear from mike, a supporter of the pipeline. Tell us why. Caller probably too many reasons to list. This has been a really entertaining morning listening to the callers. I support it because i support American Energy independence. It will be a stimulation to the economy and it will create jobs. I will back it up with a couple first of all, lets go back 40 years to the transalaska pipeline. Pretty much the same arguments were being made them by the american left. They were not as strong politically then. We can do it. Its too hard. Its cold and then i get someone. Its in a harsh environment. Were going to kill the caribou, so on and so forth. And very little if any of that came true. One of theut to be most successful Construction Projects of the 20th century. Caribou herds were shown to increase afterward because they thrived by congregating underneath the pipeline where it was elevated because of the warmth of the oil flowing through. Just one little trivial fact about the alaska pipeline. Naturaleasily google gas and Oil Pipelines in the United States and you will see there is already running under the middle of america where our food supply is an water and so on and so forth at least 20,000 miles of pipeline that carry gasoline, crude oil, natural gas , all kinds of things that run our economy, that fuel our daytoday life in this country. So all this manufactured hysteria is exley what it is. Lets go to the job front. No construction job is permanent. People crying out about building more roads and bridges and so on and so forth pretty much everyone agrees we should do that. None of those jobs are permanent. When you build a highway or build a bridge, you complete the job. Once the job is completed, construction workers and Companies Move on to the next project. A pipeline is no different in that regard. That argument just falls dead. About ready to surpass saudi arabia as the worlds top producer of oil and natural gas. We have reserves of coal, natural gas, and oil in this country that stretch into the hundreds of years. To not use them is just silly. Its just silly. Yes, i will concede that there are some risks here. We spill oil every once in a while. We used 20 Million Barrels of oil in this country every day. , in the bigrun picture scenario, we cannot not use oil yet. We cannot replace it with any other energy source. So good morning and thanks for a much. Host the New York Times front page has a picture of Angela Merkel with the president in berlin. Merkel in crisis unable to form a new government. She is facing the biggest political crisis after negotiations to form a new government collapsed, shaking europes political and economic anchor. It came less than two months after the last election seem to Angela Merkel, an icon of western democracy and values, would remain germanys leader for a fourth term. The chancellor said she remained hopeful about forming a majority government, but if forced to choose, miss merkel said she would prefer to go through new elections rather than try to lead a minority government. Thats in the New York Times. The Washington Times has the story out of texas and that a reward is being offered in the slaying of a texas Border Patrol agent. Announced avernor 20,000 reward monday for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for killing a Border Patrol agent. Killed on interstate 10 when he was stark and the head by an object, likely a rock. Thats according to chris cabrera. His partner was also injured and taken to the hospital where he was in serious condition. President trump said the government would bring the perpetrators to justice and the attack was reason to build his border wall. Jack is on the line from hamilton, ohio. Caller thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate your format. I just want to make it very simplistic. Us americans, we have such a convenient nation which we live in, meaning to say all the products are affected by oil. Just think about it. Gasoline, heating oil, jet fuel, propane, the very roads that we drive on, every road in america has Oil Derivatives as far as they are made up. Plastics, clothing, furniture, everything has a derivative of oil. I appreciate their point of view as far as money to save america. We all want to from an ecological standpoint, but do you want to go back to the pioneer days . And turning myn thermostat to 6465 degrees and i cannot see myself chopping my would seven days a week to keep my home. I dont know where they want to go with this. Host lets go to kenneth in pennsylvania. Good morning to you, sir. Caller good morning. Love the conversation as usual. I will be simplistic as well. Remediationt of the , all the contaminated soil. Does that material reached the groundwater . Ideally think its a great , but its like natural gas drilling. We have to do it carefully and protect the environment. Jobind is doing a fantastic of destroying our planet. Maybe we could do it better if we are going to do it. Thats all i have to say. Host here is a picture of the russian president with the syrian leader at the abc news website. President assad met with the russian president in sochi. They called it part of a working visit said the kremlin. Tin forhanked pu the efforts made to save our country. Two years ago when i met with president clinton in moscow, the fight was just beginning. The successes that have been achieved thanks to the assistance of the air and space forces of the Russian Federation and the syrian army are evident, according to a sought. Says theington post u. S. Faces International Probe over afghanistan. The chief prosecutor of international promote court monday formally requested authorization to investigate the u. S. Military and cia for allegedly crimes and crimes against humanity in afghanistan. Again be a jurist, who has been the chief prosecutor since 2012, confirmed earlier suspicions that the u. S. Would be implicated in this probe. In the wall street journal, john bolton, the former bush at menstruation official, rights of the hague aims for u. S. Soldiers former Bush Administration rites that the hague aims for u. S. Soldiers. Its an assault on the concept of sovereignty as well as constitutional representative governments like the u. S. The trump administers and should not respond in any way that acknowledges the iccs legitimacy. Even merely contesting its jurisdiction risks drawing the u. S. Deeper into the quicksand, writes john bolton. Lets go to wendy in mount vernon, washington. Caller good morning. Im calling about the pipeline. There can be so many jobs with Renewable Energy and it can be in construction, infrastructure. Theres a lot of ways to integrate a lot of this with agriculture. We dont need the fossil fuels. Theres already enough i think. For infrastructure, some of the called earlier somebody called earlier. Infrastructure connects and its putting the roads and stuff that connects other businesses and opportunities. Mainly Foreign Countries making money off this. Administration, their big thing is to become energy they want to be the kings of all this stuff. Americansr the benefit. We have to leave something for our children and grandchildren. We are responsible for this. We have to have an administration that also feels responsible for what we are going to be leaving for future americans. I dont understand a lot of the things going on right now. Everything is contradictory to what is best for americans. Its supposed to be making america greater. We are going backwards. Host we want to get one last call in from mike in florida. Good morning. Caller good morning. Mike . Were living losing the connection. Host are you there . We can hear you much better now. All these people that support this pipeline, not a drop is going to stay in this country. Why after four years as a own oil being shipped overseas . I cant seem to get anybody to answer these questions and. Host the pipeline is something we will talk about on the program. It is 8 00 here on the east coast. We will begin our guest segment strata we will speak with caroline kitchener. We will talk about internet extremist groups and how they grown. Negotiations continue in mexico city to restate the nafta agreement. We will have an update. We will have lots more of your calls. Of we will be right back. I was recently with one Prime Minister in europe. I went to speak at a conference and he wanted to see me. Of i thought it was a courtesy call. I thought it was going to last 10 minutes and it lasted 2. 5 hours. Said, didme ministers you see what he did . The president of montenegro and shoved him aside. All i could think of was l do j. Not a joke. Thats what people are thinking. Thats what people are thinking, violating the norms of personal conduct generates more anxiety thisear than any policy president has enunciated. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service of the American Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Washington journal continues. Is carolineg us kitchener from the atlantic. This headline caught our attention. How much attention should extremist get . Caller its hard question. Group hand, we have this of hate groups, they are coming up through the internet. Its really troubling. You might not want to give these people that much attention. Striking a balance is tough. I write about how they started and grew to what they became today. Host who are these groups . Caller the two main pot dorms i redditat were read it. Usingare groups that are these online communities to create really hateful content, racist content, misogynistic content. They are packaging the content in ways that are easy to share. They are using images and means. They are creating things that people want to share on twitter and facebook. They serve as incubators of this hate all information that goes forth into the wider world. Host how successful are they . Caller a couple of weeks ago, there was a really study that showed even though these groups are comparatively small, they have an incredible, disproportionate impact on the more mainstream platforms like twitter and facebook. That is because the stuff is sensational and people share it. People who believe this, but people on the other side say what is this, this is horrifying . You are still sharing it. That can create some problems. Host the phone numbers are on the bottom of the screen. Democrats,es for republicans, and independents. How much attention should extremist get . With an expert who have been covering these trolling communities before they were in the news. Now, she is very much in demand with the media. Whenan pinpoint exactly she is going to have a media person contact her. Anytime there is a shooting or terrorist attack, journalists go to these communities and see all of the hateful messages that are coming up there and they want to report on it. They want to show people what is going on. That can be good for us to know. Its also spreading the message. Host while the White Supremacy groups are largely stigmatize, there language has been seeping into broader public conversation. Tell us more about how that seepage is working. Caller a lot of people think the election have a lot to do with that, and thats true. Donald trump did amplify these groups. There is one particular community on reddit called the the donald. That is where a lot of this is taking place. Donald trump tweeted about a year before the election something that the donald had of a fraud. Eme frog. He did an exclusive interview on this reddit. It gave them a lot of legitimacy. People were over the moon that a president ial candidate was taking this group seriously. That really helped it grow. This is something that has been coming up for many years, before donald trump, before the election. What interesting about these groups i think is the way they package information. They dont just write a block of s and they are sharing meme images with catchy phrases, catchy slogans. Made theseof what groups spread was a database called know your meme. That made it easy for people to search these memes. You no longer had to be very ingrained in these communities to know these inside jokes, images these people were sharing and talking about. You could just go look them up very easily. Became much easier to be a part of these communities which are built on these inside jokes and the feeling of iron in with the in crowd, i know something others dont. That spurred the growth as well. Host there is a lot there in your reporting. Lets get some calls. Larry is in california. Good morning. Caller good morning. I know a lot about this. 1978 in computers since and i have seen the migration from the ibm mainframe. Particular interesting people did not have to be identified. The two main groups running this changeamerica wanted a and with donald change trump, we are getting that. You will never find any connections because of the way the finance money goes. When you talk about net biometrics, these people want Net Neutrality because they want to control the information. Biometrics will keep them from being anonymous. Thats why they dont want it. Guest it can be really hard to know who these people are. You mentioned anonymous, thats huge part of this. ,ut of the two that i looked at there is a little less anonymity because you have to have a user profile. Somebody can look at what you post and look back at everything you have ever posted. It will probably find some identifying details. Others, you have no username, no profile. It is completely anonymous, which allows people to say anything. Oft creates the atmosphere people feeling uninhibited. Host good morning, bill. Caller i wanted to make a comment. Much coverage do these people get . Is the murder in , he hass for example been called mr. Paddock. He is a murderer. Glovest treated with kid in my opinion by the media. Oswald, peopley have been made out to be not heroes, but famous people. That is part of the reason they are doing this, they know they will be on tv 24 hours a day. Guest absolutely. This is something i think about a lot. I was looking at the cover of Rolling Stone richard the boston bomber. It looks like he was a rock star, a celebrity. Now Media Outlets to point to that. That clearly crossed the line. It is something that is such a hard question. At the atlantic, we just published an issue with the most famous neonazi in america on the cover. Deciding to put him on the cover, you have to be careful. Teame atlantic, the design was very careful to take steps not to glamorize, not to make this person seem like a celebrity in the artistic choices they made. Its an illustration, not a photo. Is type across his face that says the making of an american nazi. His face is it scared by the language. Obscured by the language. Harsh and in the my opinion correct judgment that the atlantic is making of him. Cover media, we need to these things, these voices are crucial to what happening today. Look at charlottesville, we have to cover these things. Its the way we cover it that has to be careful. Host you said there is no Demographic Data about who these communities are. What do we know about who participates and who initiates . Where do they come from . Guest its hard. So much of this is anonymous. All of the expert i talked to, you have the sense that is groups are overly well mainly overwhelmingly men, they are very young. That is an interesting piece of all of this. You are looking probably at men in their mid to late 20s. This movement is a young movement. Host what do they want to accomplish . Guest they want to make their voices heard on the internet. They want to make the mainstream listen to them. A lot of this is a backlash against what they see as political correctness. They do not feel they should have to say things a certain way. The media and the liberal contingent of the United States is making them out to the horrible people because they wont conform to a set of ideas. Pushing that and trying to make people question that. I think they want to be as large as possible. Celebrating how much they have been picked up by mainstream media. Its pretty remarkable. Redditthe writers within that i studied was the donald trump read it. Read it. The growth of that is unbelievable. Atthillary clinton read 3500 subscribers. It has been remarkable. Host do they raise money . Guest in certain ways. That is not their main goal. They are trafficking in ideas. Lets hear from jim. Caller let me put some stuff out there. This woman represents an extreme leftwing publication. She is engaging in censorship. Its up to the atlantic judgment. This is a community. It was guys sitting in their living room and they saw cohen from a google map and they went to see if they can get somebody to move it. They are just trying to have a voice in this idiocy. Look at matt christiansen. His seat a right wing ideologue. Look at his commentary. Host lets give our guest at chance to respond. Guest i am definitely not saying the entire communities are these dark places. Im not saying that at all. I looked at specific communities and groups. Communities like the donald, its important for all of our listeners to know these are small communities within these massive online. Forms. What is so striking about them is even though they are eomparatively small, they hav and impact. Host moving on to tennessee. Caller good morning. I have to echo what the previous caller said. They are trolls. Cartoon frogwith a just to have fun. Now we have people from the atlantic thinking they are a threat. We have real threats in that country, like the guy that shot up the congressional baseball team. We never talk about far left activism on the left. The fbi said this is the Fastest Growing thing we are concerned about. We are afraid of a cartoon frog. Think about the idiocy of that. Host i think he finished. Guest a lot of this was dismissed. Before charlottesville, that was huge turning point. We saw what happened there. It became hard to ignore what been happening in these dark corners of the internet and you saw hundreds of angry white supremacist marching through the streets with tiki lamps. We couldnt ignore that. I think it needs to be covered. Host you mentioned white supremacists. We have this piece. What is your understanding of that part of this discussion . Guest thats not something i have looked at at all. Its a frightening thought. Blogs made available and talk of mass killings and recipes that could carry them out. Extremists in recent months as shared documents about making bombs, grenades, and other devices. Guest i think something to be said is these are strong communities. These are places where people are making connections. Go to place where people feel like they are part of a group. They are exchanging information. Thats no surprise. Hello, woodrow. Caller i am curious what your guest thinks about the Supergirl Television show. They are now doing an episode nazi. She is painted as a what do you think about when television shows, books recreate nazis to the new age . Host any thoughts . Guest it gets back to this question. In we needbeliever to remember the past. We cant forget the past. History needs to inform our present. You have to do it in a particular way. Conversation the with the creative directors at the atlantic. You have to be careful about how you do these things. You cant be glorifying this way of thinking. It seems like you are reflecting on it awfully and informing people in a way that is going to be useful. Host this is paul from massachusetts. I wanted to respond to i know so many guys who wrote it strictly on gun rights. They work and they go hunting or fishing and they are so afraid of losing that right to have a gun. I realized after a while, the propaganda coming from the nra, i was targeted. I am not a member, but they must look through who has a hunting license. They say the democrats are going to take your guns away from you. My friends would say this area i watch a lot of politics, they dont. That candidate never said that. The nra said it. That was thousands and thousands of voters all over the country. If i cant go hunting anymore, what my going to do with myself . It keeps me sane. The rest of it probably wont matter. The nra has a terrible pile of propaganda going out to people that is act with lies. Packed with lies. They dont know what the politics really are what the candidates are really reposing. If you want a highcapacity weapon, you should have a background check. They dont know what the politicians say. They get this from the nra they leave it. I see that as huge turning point for so many rural voters. Into thehavent looked connection between the nra. Thats an interesting thought. Host is there any connection with russia to these sites . Not that i know of. I think that is an interesting story and something we are looking into. Host we have more of her read orally in the atlantic. The story is from august. This is about the charlottesville rally. Charlottesville, you saw all of these panoramic pictures, it was clear that route was overwhelmingly male. I wanted to know why that was. It seemed like an easy task to say women are not involved in this movement. It seems to me they probably were in some way. I set out with this question and i talked to a lot of people in the altright, both women and men and people who studied the movement. People estimate that about 20 of the altright is female. 20 of the charlottesville route was not female. The numbers were lower. The answer that i got for why that is his biology. They told me women are nurturers, men are risk takers. Women should be in a supportive role and going out to a nationally televised protest that became violent, that is not a place for women. It was really interesting to talk to the women on the altright about that. That. Elcomed they welcomed those traditional roles. Withseemed to be content the supportive position. I thought that was very interesting. Host its time for a couple of more calls. Caller good morning. I would challenge everybody to this the donald and see for themselves. Find that i am an american jew, i find a lot of it to be horribly offensive. To get back to where the settlement from tennessee said, this is a community of trolls. This is a meme war. This is a place for free speech. To havee proven colluded with democrats and with the media to control the narrative that control media and not be an open forum. These places have an ugly side. And speech has an ugly side it is on these forms. This is how donald trump got elected. Is the president troll. He is mocking the democrats, not realizing that people on these channels are eating this up. I find it highly entertaining. They dont even see the hair getting mocked. They are getting mocked. Thank you for your reporting. Guest i might push back on that the little bit. Forums like the donald have been censoring antitrump material. If you go there and you try to a couple of from news organizations that they have blacklisted like cnn or the Washington Post, you try to post the link and it wont let you. It will say please post a screenshot, we dont want to contribute to the ad revenue of these companies. Speech,ways, it is free but in other ways its not. Host one last call from indiana. If a lot was wondering , the rage ofnce the protest, if you have looked on,he things that trump ran not saying he has corrected them, but as far as jobs leaving , too many immigrants, terrorists coming into the country. Like the one settlement touched on, the people of freedom giving weapons. I think its not so much about the hunting, its about protecting themselves from the government. Onseems like trump ran everything that both parties have been doing as far as letting jobs go overseas, giving them tax breaks to leave and trained peoples to run their jobs so they can leave. I think a lot of that adds more what theger than just south believes or any of that. Thats my comment. Go on a group or Community Like the donald and you will see that anything trump says or believes, they adopt as their own position. If he goes back and forth, they will follow him back and forth. It is an extension of his platform. Host this is another look at the headline in the atlantic. The author is caroline kitchener. Thank you for joining us. We will shift gears and talk about nafta. Be public will citizen and the peterson institute, talking about what the Trump Administration is looking for. We will have the miami herald later and talk about the future of the Guantanamo Bay prison. We will be right back. The cspan buses traveling across the country on our capitals tour. Texas,ped in austin, asking people about the most important issue. The most important thing to unnecessary occupational regulations. The most important issue is tax reform. We need to get that changed so every american has the best opportunity. One of the most important transparency in government. I dont think there can be enough of the area it. I dont think our leaders could ever do enough to be transparent with their own activity and also the kind of records that are used in government need to see the light of day. The citizens of texas deserve to know what is going on in washington. Everycational choice, parent has a right to direct their kids education. Voices from the state on cspan. I was with one Prime Minister in europe. I would over to speak at a conference. He wanted to see. I thought it was a courtesy call. I thought it was going to last 10 minutes, it lasted two and a half hours. At one point, this Prime Minister said, did you see what he did . He stood up. He took the president of montenegro and shoved him aside. Elected a government was il duce. Not a joke. No joke. That is what people are thinking. That is what people are thinking, violating the norms of personal conduct generates more policy and fear than any that this president has enunciated. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service of the American Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Host a couple of guest at the table to talk to us about nafta. The petersone from institute for International Economics and the global trade watch director. Good morning to both of you. I want to start with this headline out of bloomberg. Nafta talks are getting bogged down. I want to get you to respond to this. What are the hardline demands . Guest this is the irony. And the are deadlocked administration decides to withdraw, its not want to be because of unions were groups like mine that have thought no nafta is better than more of this nafta. There is a big corporate lobby trying to persuade them to not respond to u. S. Proposals. It goes to restructuring nafta to remove the incentives for outsourcing jobs. They want to get rid of special protections for investors to make it less risky and cheaper to offshore jobs to mexico. They went to get rid of the ban on by american. They want to raise the level of contact in a product. They want to avoid products from china sneaking inside. They want to do a review every five years to make sure the agreement is working. Thats what we do with domestic legislation. And is what democrats republicans and unions and conservative groups have been asking for. We get the benefits of trade without all of the outsourcing incentives. Host what do you see in the current talks and what you see from the white house . Guest lets be very clear about this. We have disagree about nafta for 25 years. Im sure we will continue to disagree. I dont agree with her characterization of outsourcing and so forth. Coming to your question, why dont you repeated . Repeat it . Host we want to see what you think about Trump Administration policy. Guest the reason it bogged down this week was a series of technical issues. U. S. , theyr from the were dealing with technical issues. Onseems to bogged down regulatory issues, to what can each country look at the regulations of the of the country and see that they are clearly adopted. That is why it bogged down right now. I agree with lori that the are the Trump Administration wants to use a trade agreement as a mechanism for reducing a trade deficit. I dont want to overwhelm this with number. The trade deficit with mexico will be about 70 billion. They want to reduce that deficit. All economists are universally opposed to the notion of using a trade agreement to reduce our global trade deficit. About 500rld, its billion. To take another issue the Trump Administration wants, they want a clause. That may sound innocuous. Its not. If you want a clause on trade between texas and california and in five years maybe texas maybe never traits with california. That reduces a lot of uncertainty. In this case we have a constitution and we have a nafta agreement. Those are two objectionable demands. Host let me put the phone numbers at the bottom of the screen. We are talking about nafta and its future. Democrats call 202 7488000, republicans 202 7848001 independents 202 7488002. We will get to your calls in just a couple of minutes. How would you define success or failure in these talks . Guest we would get a new agreement that would replace the old nafta. Jobsve seen 930,000 certified. That is by the u. S. Government as lost to nafta. You can get the list our website. These are the companies where almost one million u. S. Workers have lost their jobs to nafta. We need to get rid of the nafta thatuilt into make it easier and less risky to outsource jobs. They get the benefits of dutyfree trade. They dont have stuff into nafta all of these extra corporate goodies. A lot of people think nafta is about trade area trade. These are huge stacks of privileges and protections that promote outsourcing. Chunks of this have to go. Strong labor and Environmental Standards that are enforced need to be added so that wages go up. Host your objections . Guest first of all, on this jobs number, we have a very dynamic economy. Every year, 3 million American Workers are dislocated. They lose their job through no fault of their own because of business closes down or the demand is less, whatever. The most you can attribute to nafta out of that is Something Like 50,000. Thats part of a dynamic economy is change. What about the success of nafta . Quadrupled. Thats a big success. Its more than twice as large as it would have been without nass nafta. More trade. Our trade with mexico and canada is about one third of our total world, it is very much less than it could be. I looked at the numbers on this for canada and mexico. We could have twice as much trade if we would get rid of the remaining barriers. Host we have a lot of calls coming in. I wanted to give her a chance to respond to the success of nafta. Caller on the job loss, those jobs are not the full number. That program is very hard to all if i. Those are just the ones the government as certified. The place where gary works wrote a report saying this number probably counts one out of five jobs lost. People can go to our website and look up on your zip code or yorktown, your certified nafta job losses. Sayswrote the book that nafta was going to create jobs. He predicted 170,000 jobs would be created every year. After the job losses started rolling in as jobs were outsourced, the wall street are zero. Id the gains what ended up happening is gary and his colleagues predicted our trade talents with mexico would improve. We had a slight surplus with mexico and a small deficit with canada. Now we have a huge deficit. If you look at that number with the surplus, there is a job loss. Host i want you to respond to what you said. Guest she mischaracterizes what he said at the time it we went to these numbers. Any job gained or lost would be relative to the size of the economy. Thats the big point. People focusing on these numbers is misleading. Host youre on the line from maryland. Thanks for waiting. Caller thank you for taking my call. Have we looked at this loss of jobs, why dont we penalize or not penalize or charge attacks or entity from all of the american businesses that hire people who come into the country, the emigrants . Why cant we create a penalty for these people who lose jobs. If youre going to ask that export jobs to mexico, cant there be a tax and have that money contribute to Social Security . A more effective way would be to change the rules of trade. Right now, instead of leveling the playing field, the nafta rules incentivize outsourcing. Wages, theyer low are 9 lower than before nafta, there is a draw. If we had rules that said guaranteed standards, the with lessn would be of a draw. We would end up bringing wages and the u. S. This gets to the balance of trade. Gary mentioned we have quadrupled volume of trade and in what direction . We went from having a small circle us with mexico to having a huge deficit. Having more trade is helpful if it isnt balanced. To empathize with the remark. We dont do enough in this country for people who are dislocated. Programs for dealing with this located people, because i be microsoft or apple or something happening at ge, which has nothing to do with trade. Advanced, theast most stingy program of any , that is ourtry big short coming. We dont deal with this through trade restrictions, we need to deal with it domestically. Host we have gone from michigan. Don from michigan. Caller its always the nafta deal, its always the republicans the democrats are hollering about. If you read bill clintons book, this is not true. He was on the phone getting this passed. There was no way the republicans could pass anything. There is no way the republicans could pass nafta. Nafta has been good for farmers. It has hurt manufacturing. Nafta was ank bipartisan project. President bush the first signed it and bill clinton worked very hard to pass it. Big group of democrats that voted for it. S have come in and the benefits we were promised, the higher wages, more balanced trade, that did not happen. We have seen people cant get a raise. Prices keep going up. Wages in mexico are down. This set of rules didnt come down from god. This isnt even free trade. Negotiated rules is behind closed doors with over 500 corporate advisors. , wee replace these rules could have a trade agreement on a bipartisan basis. That would be better for working people. Nafta has been very good for farmers in the red states. They largely supported trump. They really love nafta. They are selling a lot more agriculture to mexico and canada than we were before. Nafta ishe point that bad for manufacturing. I disagree with that. I know its widely believed and i dont agree with that we are in that. We have very low unemployment. Are manufacturing firms looking for workers but cant find them because we dont have skills. We still have a trade deficit. I have a trade deficit every time i go to the grocery store. As for manufacturers, the reason for the drop in manufacturing employment, which is neglected by proponents of trade, we are a much more automated country than we were before. Host thank you for waiting on the democrat line. Caller good morning. You know that the fed has wireless of full employment and currently unemployment is below fulld technically, we have employment. Im not going to allow you to get away with it. Host let me let our guest give you a response. Guest we have full employment. I dont think we have as much employment because many people dropped out of the labor force between the recession and today. About 3 of people who could be working are not working. It isnt something that we can deal with with trade restrictions. Host steve is a republican color. Caller. Caller the gentleman said we dont have enough trade. Back when i was in school, thats all we had was good trade schools. They have gone by the wayside. The thing i also want to point out is the companys that come up with inventions get trademarked. Other countries still that technology and building cheaper. Lawe should be a universal that protects whatever we, with. We do come up with a lot of tension and they just let them. The manipulation of the currency, they play with the different ways they manipulate their currency. Thats about all i had to put in their. Host what did you take from that caller . Caller i think hes getting to the western of what is our. Adding currency disciplines is a good idea. One of garys colleagues has been a leader in pushing out the idea that the rules of the trade agreements can take a difference. I think the question about electoral property is interesting. The private heres the problem. When you combine those protections and the nafta rules that incentivize offshore. Take thecompanies license information and go. Ffshore to produce in the case of mexico, they play lower wages for employees and dump toxins on the ground. If we want to have trade incentivizing, having are good creations produced here, we need a different set of rules. Its kind of a crisis that the big corporations are telling mexico and canada, dont agree to the changes. That could result in a scenario that is better than no nafta. Guest thanks. He raised some interesting questions. On the currency, we agree on this. The roles on it currency, which are not in any agreement. I want to emphasize that no one complains about the mexican or canadian management of its currency relative to the dollar. If we put something in nafta, it would be a marker for other countries. I went to pick up the point about cheap labor. Just ask you to look at the fact. Germany has higher wages than we do. Germany is close to a lot of countries with much lower wages than german wages. Ermany does fine surplus is atrade sign of national strength. I could say the same about other countries. Argument is not an accurate director of trade, job movement, anything of that sort. Not to stickyou with that line. Here again, we have differing use. I think what a u. S. Company invests hundreds of millions of s, itrs in a new product deserves to be protected wherever the product is made or sold. That is one objective i agree with in the trunk goals for the new nafta trump goals for the new nafta. Can you remind us with the role of congress is and will be in regards to nafta . Caller a new agreement has to be approved. I just want to go back to steve. Town, and have a plant in the u. S. An hour. Making 25 they are going to create a new plant. They went to mexico. On the same tire line with the same technology, they can pay 1. 88 an hour instead of 25 an hour. With nafta, their technology is relocated, they have investor guarantees. They have outsourced what couldve been u. S. Jobs because they were looking at low wages. Gary knows the scenario. It is unique to those countries. A need to get this up with negotiation and we need congress to do the deal. Works for the dunlap plant in buffalo, they want to destroy union, that is what this is about. Hasnt gone up since reagan was because ot because there is no union to go is why there is no wage increase. You need mcdonalds labor to go a raise in this country. The Republican Congress wrote the bill, the republican pass it under t bush. But when the democrats under reagan democrat congressmen passed it, i think congressmen. Mocrat bill clinton knew if he didnt ign the bill, they could veto it. Clinton may have agreed with it, being was always challenged, are you going to help business . Newt gingrich do after signedpie gel . Trump people say now . Lets address this to Gary Hufbauer first. Bill. a lot of points made, obviously doesnt like it is nd thinks detrimental. He mentioned hightech, that is what the u. S. Exports. We export boeing, mri, export high i wouldnt take these of companiesby one which have moved and say that is its not. L picture, host lori wallach. Guest well, bill, first of all, clinton loved nafta, pushed hard to pass nafta. Was an agreement signed by george bush, the older passed it. , clinton if you look and can get it tradewatch. Org, the beginning of the job losses were lowerend manufacturing, less hightech, currently were xporting the medical device making, the aerospace, advanced it is an ing and important factor, the biggest wages. Ve trade is on want to send people to the New York Times, 2004, elder challenges outsourcing, story samuelson, the economist who created modern heory of free trade economics that were all better with more free trade because on the consumer side, we all get try to stuff and you compensate the people who lost jobs to the imports. The map on own nobel prize theory and says so much outsourcing higherend manufacturing the savings were getting on bigger stuff is not than losses were getting pushing down wages and thats the nafta story. Outsourcing middle class jobs, wage available for everyone in the economy is down, that is how we rewrite it. For dela on the line democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. I agree with lori wallach, i york, we had lucrative paying jobs in the the el industry and military industry and trucking industry, which transported from another. E to we once had lucrative paying jobs, we no longer have them, transferred by clinton who never worked a day in his life in the private sector, transferred to lowwage Service Sector jobs. Lucrative r have paying jobs and i agree with trump that we should get those back. We should get those jobs back. We dont need those lowpaying sector jobs here. City. Tely changing our host della, thank you for calling. Talken the conversation to about the agent trade policy, as asia the presidency was in for two weeks talking trade and other issues. Hufbauer, you wrote a piece that has this headline to it, trumps trade agenda in asia, it could have been worse. Want to ask you what you mean. Lets hear from the president what he thinks e accomplished in asia pres. Trump japanese car ndustries will open up in our country. We work closely with the Prime Minister on that, we are trade deal g bad with south korea and started talking about bilateral trade countries in asia and most importantly weve made clear to all countries we cannot treated unfairly hen it comes to trade any longer. Its not fair to our companies r our workers, we lost over 800 billion on trade deals with other countries. A negative number, a 800 deficit of almost billion with other countries, be is not going to happening, that is changing and i explained that to them from asia, they int of understand it. Every one of them understand it. Host to our guest, beginning Gary Hufbauer, who wrote that piece, it could have been worse. What did you hear from he president in that clip and what did you mean by it could have been worse . Guest President Trump has a view, shared by lori, the world s unfair, trade is unfair to the u. S. And weve had stupid negotiators in the past, you know, clinton on down, george. Bush, sold the u. S. Down the river. That is the trump view, i think completely and totally wrong, but that is the view hes expostulated in asia, very strong statements you put on the air here. And it was the rhetoric which what della was saying and some of the other callers that, you know, the u. S. Advantage of. Now, that was pretty bad. Says that the way the u. S. Should go, lets put up the physical y wall with mexico, but put up tariff walls that will make us rich. No country has been made rich or prosperous by protection. Why could it have been worse . It could ty bad, but have been much worse because he could have actually on this terminated our freetrade greement with korea, announced because he has the power, trump has tremendous amount of power o control trade, could have announced, well, china is heating us, well put up 10 tariff on everything imported from china. That is the way it could have been worse. Lori wallach, response . Guest i actually have a different view than President Trump. Think the u. S. Has been taken advantage of. I think u. S. Corporations able to hijack u. S. Trade agreements because advisors to the negotiations that happen behind of us doors with the rest shut out, so now we have trade agreements that basically have protection for corporations, like the tribunal at the heart of nafta, can attack domestic laws in front of a panel of corporate lawyers who can order up taxpayers to compensate compensation for unlimited sum fist they think any domestic law or government undermines new agreement ights they manage to go into a trade agreement. Those agreements and wages they ave, floods of imported food, etcetera, are changes that we need in trade agreements. Happened with the asia trip, basically a lot of lost have a ity because we bunch of trade agreements that arent working. We have rules of trade not anded out for raising wages creating good jobs and on the president s trip, he literally the countries of the tradeor 82 deficit and didnt get new agreements, instead made deals Chinese Government Investment Funds and Chinese Governmentowned corporations to chunks of u. S. Real companies, not deal for most americans. Pennsylvania, independent line. Hi, tom. Listen, before i comment, i want to tell you something, your audio feed back waiting on , people the phone is absolutely terrible. 80 of the ear dialogue going on. Is that this say fella who mentioned people cant trained worker, that is absolute bull. Ive been working in the 1968, 30 of those years i spent in management, the problem is that companies do not want to bother training people. Hen i started out, we trained people on the job and that way so their em trained job. Ls are specific to your instead what has gone on is that they want people to walk in the somebody else pay the tab for training, some other chool or something and then they get the benefit of it and noticed over the years hat they try to keep, when people being trained on the job the cking up anything on job, their mission is to keep as ignorant as possible. Cant move ey somewhere else. Things they itical need to know on specific jobs told whatople are not these things are. That they pens is keep them stupid and that way keep them around longer. Host thanks for calling, tom. Mr. Gary hufbauer. Let me pick up part of training aid on the and i am in complete agreement with him that our training country is is inadequa inadequate, compared to canada, door. Is right next we have a lot to do in terms of training. Is one aspect of the training, why it doesnt happen today as in rms firms lets say in europe. That is because workers dont have the same feeling of loyalty to firms, it goes both ways, but if you put money into training a and that person walks ou out. Rigretabl big grettable, there is a vacuum we are not filling at the government level. Some states are doing better others, but tom identified problem, which is made in america, not in mexico or made here. S host lets hear from lori wallach. Guest i think the training real question. The question is also where the companies are willing to invest jobs. Ate rules renegotiate the wage. If a worker is well trained, find higher able to wage job that keeps up with the fact expenses keep going up. Yes, training is important, but also what signals are we send withing our trade agreements . This gets to basically proposals that were in the administrations nafta rewrite. Helped write who the original nafta are saying talk to the hand, dont engage reform, we want our nafta as is. This is the thing that is going, gary mentioned higher tariffs, walls against trade. Is not p administration recommending raising tariffs. Ariffs are so low in mexico, u. S. And mexico without nafta, the World Trade Organization tariffs, average applied tradeweighted tariff is 5 , in fact so low a lot of trade between the under es isnt done nafta, but under the global wta rules. Administration is not looking to trade tariffs, but to get rid of incentive to investment. That is the key because with retraining invest ht incentive to here, we can have better, higherpaying jobs. Hollands la host last couple calls. Good morning, greg. Good morning. His is been hard listening to the comments here, first i have to get this out. Know your name from the peterson institute, but i like you. Ople host hold on, hold on. Hold on, greg. Wonder why you are still sitting there spouting lies when you know what nafta has done. Im sitting here nine years staring out the window because rules. R lady, i youre a nice like what youre saying, yes, afta was kind of started with reagan. He sold us a bill of goods, but any is not going to raise tariffs, he lie body that. Goes to china and what does he do . Nothing. Host greg, i wanted to amplify what he was talking about. Did you get enough to be able to respond . Guest i take it greg doesnt views i r the represent, that is part of public debate. There you go. We have, just have very different views, but i dont despise you, greg. Host go to rose on the democratic line. Hi there. Caller hi. Hear you clearly, i dont know what the audio problem was with the other person. Into it for ook that other person. Caller im sure. Have three points, if you dont mind. Host okay. Did r the first act trump or trade was pulled out of the tpp and china went full steam road with one belt, one project, which nobody in the when states of america, trump on was on the asia tour, nobody mentioned this project of chinas. Now that is one trade move. Nother trade move, how about the weapons that we sell and which we have ng taken off with, we can sell a pons to them, so that is trade that we dont count on and cbs just exposed the bmw south carolina, americans dont build those plants. Russian, polish, czech, domanians to do the building in south carolina. Thanks, three distinct points, this is a lot. Lori wallach, what would you with . O begin can we mention tpp first . Hat is impact of the president s decision to withdraw from the treaty . Guest the agreement wasnt so about free trade, it was another agreement like nafta corporate its heart rights and protections. So the president s withdrawal boxing and burying congress, t through approximate cause of death because it bundled together protections, rules that would increase medicine prices, limits on import food and majority in congress, which is republican control, hought it was going to bring down u. S. Wages and export a lot of jobs. Was a good pening thing, we needed different model. China, in espect to fact, we were told, look out china will have an agreement in away, another agreement being negotiated, that hasnt happened, the agreement stuck as tpp, however, what certainly did happen and rose china one road, one elt or maybe in china 2025, is we had one belt, one road move o the u. S. Via the Trump Administration, making a deal with the Chinese Governmentowned company to set infrastructure and liquid natural gas plant in alaska. This does not seem like a good idea, inviting governmentowned a port inmpany to own alaska and run the natural gas system there. The move and is on we need policies to actually promote our jobs. Gary hufbauer, a response . Guest a lot of points there. But i want to come back to a keeping harping on. Totally disagree with that, i want to point out in the last year wages have gone up, why . We have a full pressure economy, higher employment and hopefully more if trump actually gets tax plan through, which i agenda e part of the which i like, we will get to go up, wages will nothing to do with trade, on the hree points that rose made, i want to take up the weapons. He is right, but the weapon salesman in trump came out full saudi arabia and in ofan and that was a big part his emotion. Of the the highest hightech and trump thinks by selling them abroad, that is a great thing. There are a lot of questions about that proposal, that is advocated. Good agreement, well negotiated by obama and trade minister minister you take the lead in terms of trade policy in asia, it was a n the world, big geo political withdrawal and will pay dividend to china, not to us. We we are out of time, want to thank our two guests, and Gary Hufbauer, senior fells at peterson institute, thanks to you this morning. Host thank you. One more short break and well miami and miami Herald Reporter caroline kitchener, talk about the future of Guantanamo Bay and well take be right back. Ll cspan bus is traveling across the country on 50 capitals tour. Stopped in austin, texas, asking folks what is the most important issue in their state. Texas, the most important hoping me is and i was texas would get rid of occupational regulations. The most important issue is tax reform. System, we dated tax need that changed so every merican will have the best opportunity possible. The most important issue texans in washington is transparency and government. I dont think there can be it and i dont think do enougheaders could to be more transparent in terms own activitiesir and behavior, but i think the are used inrds that government need to see the light of day and the citizens of texas deserve to know what is going on in washington. For e most important issue the state of texas is educational choice, every parent has a right to direct their education and hopefully get a bill passed next session. The state on cspan. Unfoldsan, where history daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and you today by your provider. Atellite washington continues. Host joining us from miami is Carol Rosenberg, miami herald. The topic is Guantanamo Bay and policy. How many detainees are at guantanamo these days . They and what does their future look like . Detainees atntly 41 guantanamo, across the years, se780, never one given time. T opened in january of 2002, after the september 11th attack and 41 include 10 men who have military ed in the commissions, work hort set up by to ge bush in response eptember 11th terror attack security arrangement. Obama administration was ggressive in getting cleared detainees out, but these five men were left behind because stopped all t has transfers for the moment and these men, as far as i know, no arrangement being made for transfer off of the base and out of the prison. Broadly, bring us up to speed on policy, Administration Policy toward take us back to what president obama was looking to do and what President Trump has future of about the the prison. Guest president obama was devoted to close the prison. He had 242 detainees when he it, which meant president bush released 540 of them. And the president previous president obama wanted it closed he felt that the remaining detainees who had to held as war prisoners could be handled on guantanamo had become bad politics, bad demroemacy, Bad International reputation for the United States. So he was determined to close it supposed to e was close it was by moving people to the United States and congress blocked it. Was not able to accomplish that goal. Ongress prevented prisoners of guantanamo from coming to the United States. Now President Trump campaigned guantanamo and growing it. He said that he was going to bad dudes and he was going to fill the prison with detainees. He hasnt. He hasnt let anyone go and nobody has been sent yet at all. Of the problem with that is that guantanamo was prison was e designed to hold the taliban and that is detainees and not who were catching these they hen we catch people, are associated with isis, and and legal itical debate over whether it is ending isis prisoner to guantanamo under the current legal structure is an invitation to more of a challenge in the courts. So mr. Trump said he would keep it, and he has done one, but not done the other. Host phone number on the bottom screen for our guest, Carol Rosenberg of miami herald. Democrats call 2027488000. Republicans 2027488001 is your number. Independents 2027488002. Our guest, Carol Rosenberg is sometime for quite from guantanamo, since before it was actually opened as prison 2002. Tainees back in you told me during the break that you just spent three weeks to be what is it like there at guantanamo . What does it look like . What does it sound like . Us about your experiences there . Guest Guantanamo Navy base is a pentagon. Y the its essentially a little small of america. It has a school system, bars, reason it aport, the is there is for the port and seaport, airplanes, u. S. And ary and coast guard other u. S. Government planes flying in the caribbean can use refueling station or stop off station. Much the sameetty thing. Navy and more often coast guard resupply. In to have been used since 9 11 to center and detention of the most e base flights that land and most ships are bringing people to do or thing on the base they have edicts for sail boats you can rent, they ave first run movies every night for the residents. 5500 people live at guantanamo, 5500 people of whom 41 are 1500, 1,500 d about prison. Gned to the they are guards, work in the dining rooms for the that guards, they work on bureaucracy that maintains the prison. Maintain health care of the prisoner anded guards. T is this large staffed headquarters for the small detainee population. Guantanamo itself is a base. Has a school, it has movie theaters. Commissary, kind of like a kmart or walmart and on ne end of the base, after you go through a gate is the Detention Center zone, where the kept in different prisonstyle buildings, mostly two, and where more than a thousand people can come and go n a given day to work there in different shifts, eat there, they have their own movie theater, can watch firstrun movies and they have their own at times entertainment, zone, ly they leave the come out on the base and live ith the sailors and their maintain base as oldest navy outpost that belongs to the United States. We rent it. Host before we get to calls, i was going to ask, your biggest threeweek om the trip in terms of policy and how the white back it house. It was a hearing in the case of andisoner who was picked up held by the cia for four years waterboarded and roughly custody before he got to guantanamo. Hes charged, accused of being who put together the that blew up the off of 9 11 this is before the attack, charged in military with war , war court, crimes for having put together that plot. Penalty case. The pentagon prosecutor wants im executed if convicted and what went on for three weeks was ostly how to keep or get him representation because he had a serving criminal defense attorney, civilian named rick again, civilian paid by the pentagon in more recent rick to be his lawyer and camen and two colleagues quit the case. Classified secret ethical problem that forced them leave the case they Say Something secretive has gone on guantanamo that make its impossible to have confidential client,tions with their this alleged terrorist. Hey quit the case, unlike any other court in america, they and marine general understood in order to quit the the ey didnt need general could release him. We flew in three weeks ago to series of questions about how a case could go forward, a without deathcase penalty defender and one point, i think if people were paying judge was so ngry at the marine, the judge being air force colonel and the chief the defense, the defense counsel being marine general he ordered him to bring withdraw rs back, to his permission for them to quit and when the general refused, he of the warn Contempt Court and ordered him to 21 days confinement. Jailed ally ordered him for 21 days. This being guantanamo, he was to his quarters and his quarters ere his are a trailer park behind the court built. Is not like any court ever seen toperates under other nt rules than any court that functions in america, it is hybrid between the system and the civilian system, he ordered general john quarters for 21 days because he wouldnt rescind lawyers,r releasing the who didnt show up. And then it caused quite a stir, use of contempt power that weve seen, it ended eve, federal court on the two days into his detention as inlooks like a federal judge washington, d. C. , the u. S. District court was about to him, the pentagon decided to let him out of confine sxment and that sentence caused a lot of questions about the authority of the court, the of the judge and what do you do when a defense ttorney, who is not in the military and required by law as says, when practicable walks away from the case. Host lets hear from our now. Rs Carol Rosenberg is in miami. Ron is on the line, independent caller, ron, thanks for waiting. Caller hi. It was span and and how can n 1998 they possibly, i mean, why doesnt the u. N. Interfere, that base should be given back to cuba. There is no way that that base be there. O me tis so unlawful and Carol Rosenberg . Guest the lease does say both to agree to break it. Congress followed up in the 90s with legislation that said there no withdrawal from guantanamo until there is no after theretro, and re democratically elected democratic government in cuba, lease , they are under agreement. Fidel told us to get out many, many years ago, we stayed there histories a story of itself, but it is part of the eason why they set up the prison there. Guest the military commissions try the men. At 10 of 41 men are in before charged six of them with Death Penalty cases, n Death Penalty charges, executed. But the way it is explained in the most simplest form is that detainees are like prisoners of war. Them pows. All they call them unlawful enemy belligerents and use different language like that. Geneva that under the conventions they are authorized to hold people during a state of war. Ins being the war on terror, effect a forever war, come to call them forever prisoners. A war that started with essentially debate about started, we wont go war with entity that has no one to surrender, the question is how does the war end . Amuf, it about the covers al qaeda and the taliban, when it was set up. And the prisoners took their detention to the federal court they earned the right to challenge their cases individually through habeus corpus, so there is a check, but to understand the way they look it and government think of them as prisoners in the war of terror. Rosenberg, do reporters have access to the detainees to any extent . Guest sure. We havent been allowed to get prison for many months now, they have sut down detention to the is far less transparency. We see them in court when they are charged. Bering the story since january of 2002. Ever spoken to a detainee at guantanamo, they are forbidden to speak to reporters and to speak to bidden them. At times we get a glimpse of of them ifestyle, many live communally, or used to before they shut down access to could see. Spoken to ae i have detainee, they have gotten out met lled or emailed me or them at a seminar or outside the country. Have they told you when they left about conditions or or used down there. Manipulation of of , hot and cold extremes the message got out, while the foreseeing continues hunger e who are striking to protest their detention, as a general rule, underway for fort the two sides to coexist with the hope that certainly the ones charged will some day get out. Host just under 20 minutes left guest. Ur democrats call 2027488000. Republicans, 2027488001. Independents, 2027488002. Our guest, Carol Rosenberg is in miami, shes with the miami talking about the Guantanamo Bay prison and the future of the detainees and trumps policy. Glen hanging on the line from centerville, tennessee. Caller, hi, glenda. Good morning. Caller hello. Agree with President Trump, i want it to stay hope. Place for people to send there, we dont need them here. Coming enough people into this country that want to kill us, they dont know about these people. President , they should stay open, it is good to have, they should stay there and sometimes i get upset they are treated better in the courts han people who are citizens of this country. I know a lot of people feel the same way and thank you for have my opinion. Host thank you. Carol rosenberg, quote from have you trump and respond to that. He says we have to come up with unishment that is far quicker and far greater than punishment animals are getting now. Heyll go through court for years and at the end be who knows what will happen. We need quick justice and strong justice, much quicker and much stronger than we have now because what we have now is a laughing stock. And no wonder so much stuff takes place says the president. Carol rosenberg. Guest i think the president is frustration with pace of the military commission, a court that was made up after the in part to accommodate for the fact that many of the prisoners brought court were held or three and four years in the cia and what we learned through the military commission experience is that if you take and you dont bring them to court right away and you disappear them into the dark of the cia and do things to them that are still classified and you hold them in that are Still National security secrets, you cant rush because ugh the court the judges have been siding to a defense egree with the lawyers that an eventual jury is know how these confessions came about. Even ones they say are voluntary, what happened in three or four years beforehand, they were certainly not confessions, when the Senate Report torture going on to get them to say things, true or not 6789 you take prisoners and dont bring them to the court in take theminstance and to a place, whether guantanamo r elsewhere, you do complicate the eventual court system that in oing to try them and terms of what brenda said, that is a widely held feeling, there people in america who of guantanamo, members i think the complexity of guantanamo is fact that no the detainee has been brought there i think march 2008. Id have to double check, but throughout the entire Obama Administration, no one was brought there, now throughout trump rt period of administration, no one was brought there, to bring detainee guantanamo is to make it impossible to take them to court in the United States and put trial. All you have left is indefinite etention as war prisoner or military Commission System that was set up after the september 11 attack and still has open questions, including, as we learn in the last few weeks the contempt authority of the judges who run the cases. Twitter, besides being a black mark against the sa guantanamo costs millions per year to house each prisoner. What can you tell us about cost prisoner . Cost to keep this facility open . Guest so the trump not been the has least bit transparent about what they are spending at this moment on guantanamo. There was a period in time obama to make anion trying argument for transfer crunched cost over 400 million a year to operate the for the detainees, which would include, by the way, eeding and caring for guards and the staff of 1500 people who Detention Center separate and apart from the base, 1500, mostly National Soldiers called up for nine month stents, it is very expensive to pull someone out of civilian life, bring them, train them, put them in uniform, feed them, entertain them, the costs are extremely high. You take the actual total budget by 41 and divide it prisoners and come up with the cost. But we dont know what they are now. Ing right the Trump Administration just has not, the pentagon is not tally anymore. He host toledo, washington, al is democrats e on the line. Good morning, al. Caller good morning to you. Carol. First time i visited guantanamo 1975. As in im Justice School in the retired command master chief type. They opened hat Guantanamo Bay as a prison, i at the television, that place should never have prison. Up as a way back in 1950, we got a thing ucmj, on military justice, provision in it is that are going to be trials prisoner, they will be conducted under the ules and in the courts that existed on the day of outbreak hostileities, gitmo, dont meet that requirement, violation of article three of geneva we ention and, you know, should get rid thf thing as far as the prison is concerned. Being a thorn in the side, that is a political instead of a legal one. To some of the callers, i want this, we are supposed to be a nation under the rule of law. We exist to establish justice makee put in place laws to certain that is the way that we act in this country. Seem to have a president and we seem to have had a couple of have been ions that about aggravating the rule of law. An attorney general of he United States who is a minister of the president , who just like the ministers of king putting the thumb on the scale of justice. Close guantanamo and get back to being a nation under wall. Ost important legal host words of al there. Carol. Uest guantanamo that you served at, you would not recognize today. You know, at that time it was of a small town with a smalltown feel, neighborhoods in the school and families and a community. Ight now its a wash and trailer park and constant turn single, uncompanied troops coming and going, which is changed the atmosphere of that place. They live in trailer parks, go down for ht, go thanksgiving, they will have thanksgiving in their dining the galley, rather than with families. Is a very different place. The other thing, the Supreme Court this year had an review the to structure of the military it. Ission and it declined the one man there who has been onvicted of war crimes at trial, balul, serving life as ladens media secretary, filmmaker propagandist, pentagon terns, americans paid by the pentagon asked the Supreme Court o review his conviction and legitimacy of his conviction and the Supreme Court chose not to case. That so your point about it is legitimacy or not will have to another day, but meantime, the commissions are considered legitimate by the court, which after shutting it down allowed it to reforms that the have been brought, that were brought by president obama. Calhoun, ames now in georgia, james you are on with rosenberg. Good morning. Caller im a little bit glad to see were talking about guantanamo again. Seemed like there for a while, it was about a new lackout during the Obama Administration. As far as the mad sheik goes, should be on his final appeals, i mean, as far as im could build the island. On the its been way, way too long. My last point is that earlier caller said we should cuba. Hat back to that is a deep water harbor, communist ack to cuba . You like the idea of russian submarines, chinese maybe iranian submarines 100 florida . F the coast of i dont think so. Thanks. Host Carol Rosenberg . Points, people in the military consider that a for the spot. If not deep water harbor that used to be a training spot for the navy, politically strategic in terms of where it is region. Ed in the guantanamo and read as much as you got about it. Accused ofed the man the 9 11 attack and european hung on uld have been the gallows, hes still in retrial hearings, they havent gotten a jury seated in that. Ne thing that is still unclear is if hes ever convicted they have not decided yet what Method Capital punishment would be used at military commission. Unchartered territory, there are many uestions that because of the nature of the court, because of he nature of detention, spent years with the cia. Guest it caused discomfort in the rts community and headline does say, for years detainees were involved in the to give themreated distraction so that there would be less opportunity to have guards cht thehe art program was creation of the military, it was intended to detainees outlet that w was recent decision yet to be detainees e detienai exhibit on display at John Jay School of criminal justice in shows artwork given including those model sail boats which are ingenious in paintings and water color from detainees lawyers, the lawyers want show that ay to [audio difficulty] chronic that requires expensive medication, that shes not been to afford. There is a civil war going on incredibly yemen is destabilized and the attorneys say they know where the money is what puzzles me about his thing is why whoever host down to the last couple minutes can Carol Rosenberg. Independent caller, hey, paul. Caller hey. The latest iteration of the Geneva Convention accord law of turned international on its head, going back to 650 a. D. , noncombatants are [audio difficulty] guest war Court Response to that, you cant be an american you cant be a lawful a batant, you must be noncitizen unlawful combatant having been alleged to have certain activities considered to be war crimes to military those commissions commissions the trump guantanamo, n and what are you looking for . Guest well, were waiting to to do t they are going ith the next person that they detain that would meet their definition of someone eligible guantanamo. The people they have captured not re isis have so far gone to guantanamo, were waiting to see what they do with policy, which may seem frivolous, but it is something hat started under the Bush Administration and continued through the Obama Administration suggests that some art will be incinerated and seems they use it have defaulted to the assumption hat the art is classified or protected and what they do at guantanamo, they have a document hat is classified, they no longer want and they decide that the public should never see, bag and it in a burn incinerate it. Well see if that really happens. Carol rosenberg has been with the miami herald since 1990 covering Guantanamo Bay since before the first arrived. Read her work at miamiheraldguantanamo. Thank you for joining us from miami. Host thank you for joining us for the past three hours, washington journal runs every a. M. Eastern time and enjoy the rest of your day, see you back here tomorrow