Sigar reports, our dollars are being wasted in pretty gross ways starting with shrinked wrapped of pallets of cash being flown out of the airbase starting with contracts to deliver water to our soldiers in Forward Operating bases that ve to go up through pakistan and where their firefights are being used as ploys by warlords that want to extract much more money in order to allow safe passage for that water to get through. Buying ecent episode of uniforms that had camouflage designs that are suited for tahiti but not afghanistan. So i really appreciate your recommendations and they all make immense sense to me and i could endorse those and perhaps the committee could as well. But the question is the policy that will be advocated by the congress of the United States and whether this thing is working at all. In your investigations, can you make some general comments about the reliability of accountability systems within the afghani partners that we have . Mr. Some could he. Sopko. Mr. Sopko yes, i can. We have questions about most of the internal accountability capabilities and i actually had a conversation with president ghani on my last trip and he acknowledged there are problems in certain agencies or ministries and we actually came to an agreement and hes going to he promised the issue of president ial decree, giving us access to the internal books and records and individuals of all the ministries so we can do an in depth analysis of their internal controls. Mr. Welch we had some of our Justice Department officials there and they were teaching government officials how to detect corruption and they had to stop that program because they were teaching people about how to detect corruption who became the people who then implemented corruption. Has that changed . Mr. Sopko that is still a serious threat. Thats why there was an attempt to set up a vetted anticorruption unit of the afghan police, their prosecutors and judges. And we are looking into that. The problem is quite a few of those people were supposed to be polygraphed. They were polygraphed, and a good number failed the polygraphs but we have never followed through with removing those people. So those are some of the questions that were looking at. If youre setting up a vetted unit, by definition you have to follow through with the vetting. You dont polygraph people and let them stay when they fail a polygraph on corruption. Mr. Welch i want to thank you and mr. Cunningham for your service. I yield back. Mr. Desantis the gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Issa, for five minutes. Mr. Issa thank you, mr. Chairman. Good to see you again. I have the greatest respect for our inspector generals but particularly those who operate in combat zone as you have for so many years. And it is interesting that one of the complaints you bring to us today, one of the very valid ones is you are not being given enough access in the combat zone to do your job. And thats something hopefully that the committee can help right. Every friday night for most of the year on hbo bill maher, a very controversial figure, has this show and he always has a section called new rules, and new rules always sort of mocks, if you will, some of the most egregious things but let me go through new rules for a moment. Should the United States government have an absolute policy of not paying bribes or other corrupt things in order to get border crossings, including obviously the delivery of water that was ust mentioned . Should that be something we should not do, period . Mr. Sopko i agree with that. Mr. Issa ok. I agree with it. But we continue to do that in country after country, is that true . Mr. Sopko sir, i look at afghanistan. I agree bribes are being paid but we try to look into that and stop it. Mr. Issa i know you do. When i talk about new rules these are new rules for the Trump Administration. This problem didnt begin with this administration or even the last administration. Mr. Sopko absolutely. Mr. Issa so one of the new rules should be convoys turn around, they report to us and we deal with either pakistan or afghanistan and tell them that one of the conditions our forces doing what we do for them is in fact that we dont pay bribes, we dont do it under the foreign corruption act, we shouldnt have our vendors doing it in order to get their convoys to our troops, thats a fair statement under what should be a new rule, if you will . Mr. Sopko i think the u. S. Military is trying to enforce that rule right now. Last under the current regime and there as well as the prior one, i think theyve been trying to do that as much as they can. Using conditionality. Mr. Issa you transcends two president ial administrations, the end of the last one and now this one. Mr. Sopko thats correct. Mr. Issa this one is at least corrupt than the last one, correct . Mr. Sopko absolutely correct. Mr. Issa second new rule, we should not support a president , whether elected or not, that is putting hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in his and his familys pockets and tolerate the way we did under the last administration, fair . Mr. Sopko thats music to my ears, sir. Mr. Issa ok. I am going through my Lessons Learned because the argument of today is only really germane if its the argument of the last 16 years and we dont seem to have learned. The last one which i think is ne for this committee. We are nation building in dozens of nations, including many of them in africa every day. To be candid, the peace corps, all the way back with john f. Kennedy was part of the, if you will, shedding to a people what we know that is part of building a nation from the bottom up. So if whether each president i can think of going back a long way has said they are not going to nation build, if were going to nation build, let me ask you the most poignant question. You mentioned the problems of active duty, uniformed military personnel trying to teach things which they are not particularly suited or trained for, correct . Mr. Sopko that is correct. Mr. Issa so shouldnt the new rule be we develop capability at the state department and or at the department of defense, presumably in the reserve component, and or somewhere else that in fact finds the people around the United States or even outside, around the world, that in fact can be a productive part of nation building . Mr. Sopko thats absolutely correct and thats what were talking about in our latest report, sir. Mr. Issa so if were going to take away something after 16 years of, i call it the groundhog day in afghanistan and iraq, of being back at the same point that we were at previous times before we let things go awry and now were back fighting to a point at which were hoping not to make the same mistakes again, one of the most important things is we as a committee and we as a nation must find a way to build those institutions, whether those countries want to fully cooperate or not, find a way to build those institutions and that means we cannot continue to use the same people who as wellmeaning and hardworking as they have been are not prepared or qualified to exit the country with the kind of skills, and that includes the United States military, if you will, the war fighter trying to be a training trainer of mayors or bureaucrats . Mr. Sopko that is correct, sir. Again, its trying to align our capabilities. Were not saying we dont have the capabilities. Problem is theyre not the ones we have been sending because the way the system was set up. And thats the lowhanging fruit that we can start doing. Thats what we call about talk about find out what their needs are and what our capabilities are and make sure the right people go to the right units in afghanistan. Mr. Issa thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Desantis the gentlemans time has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from kentucky, mr. Comer, for five minutes. Mr. Comb thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Mr. Comb are mr. Comer thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Sopko, thank you for helping us determine a more successful fout for this mission. I also want to make note that im proud to represent the men and women of Fort Campbell military base in kentucky. They have been deployed to afghanistan countless times over the past 16 years, so this issue is very important to me and my district. My first question, in your testimony you highlighted the challenge that politically constrained timelines pose to reconstruction efforts, including readiness. I think its clear we need to move away from the previous administrations strategy of imposing arbitrary timelines and force levels that do not reflect the situation on the ground. That being said, i have serious concerns with the prospect of an openended conflict in afghanistan that could drag on for another 16 years. So my question is, can you comment on how to balance the need to respond to conditions on the ground while still maintaining key benchmarks and goals for the transition to more complete Afghan Security control . Mr. Sopko i think that can be done. Part of it is being done with overlight like this to congress. Dont give oversight like this to congress. Dont give openended funding. Dont give openended ack we essence acquiescence. That is our biggest complaint, sir, is we look at metrics, inputs, outputs and outcomes. And we find agencies that dont even know how much theyre spending. But then they can maybe tell us how much they spent it on. How many shoes they bought. How many guns they bought. They dont know what the ultimate outcome is. Your job i think in congress if i can be so bold as to suggest is to hold the u. S. Government agencies accountable just like we are trying to hold them accountable in afghanistan. But i agree with you on that point, sir. Mr. Comer next question. In your testimony you noted that u. S. Channels in afghanistan have been meandering and clogged until recently. Do you believe the Trump Administration new strategy is helping remedy these issues and what recommendations from your report do you think are most important to help improve our train, advise and assist mission . Mr. Sopko can i defer to my colleague. Mr. Cunningham helped write most of this report. Mr. Cunningham so we have seen secretary defense mattis actually embrace some of the Lesson Learned and key findings from our report. As i said during the failure analysis, we were able to implement a lot of the recommendations in our report into that discussion. The problem is some of those recommendations are not being implemented today. The next unit going out is where we may see some change. One of the biggest problems we have is we dont have a deployable Police Capability that can operate in a nonpermissive environment to develop an Afghan National police force. The department of defense dont have the capability and the civilian agencies cannot operate in high threat environment so we miss that capability and thats something we need to discuss. At the minute steerial level, a lot of the advisors are uniformed personnel who dont receive the training that the civilian advisors receive. The minister Defense Advisor run by the department of defense excludes uniformed military personnel even though they are conducting the mission at the top. Yes, i do think there can be small steps done to realign the mission. We have not seen necessarily they are being implemented today. Mr. Comer my last question. Your recent report found that 152 afghans went awol after traveling to the u. S. For training between 2005 and 2017. First, my question can you explain why these soldiers are traveling to the United States in the first place . Dont we have Training Programs in afghanistan . Mr. Sopko sir, the decision was made they be trained here. There are some training that can be trained here in the United States. Thats just the way it is. I cant really tell you specifically why a certain amount were done here. Maybe some can be done more in afghanistan but i think our capabilities were here. Mr. Comer has the government done anything to reduce these risks in the future . Mr. Sopko well, yes and no. The department of Homeland Security was very receptive. The state department refused to even consider one of our simple considerations and that is maybe they should personally sper view everyone who gets a vees interview everyone who gets a visa under this program and they brushed that aside. Es that something you can help us with. I just think its ridiculous. They interview everybody that gets a visa when they come to the United States. Now, we identified theres a problem with military Afghan Military coming here. Over half of the awols, people going awol in the United States are afghan. So obviously you got a problem here. The state Department Just brushed aside and said, we see no reason to interview them. If its good enough to interview them for other visas why not interview them for this . Mr. Desantis the gentlemans time has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia, mr. Hice, for five minutes. Mr. Hice thank you, mr. Chairman. I think this is an extremely important issue that we are talking about with the numbers. High numbers going awol. Why are there so many afghans that go awol . What is the deal here . Mr. Sopko you know, we werent able to interview all of them because some have disappeared. We tried to interview as many afghans we could and also talk to people back in afghanistan and talk to other people. The reasons are mixed. Some of it is they are afraid to go back. Its a wartorn country, so stay here in the United States. Others are, they were upset when they found out that to go back to their units they would have to pay bribes to get their jobs back. And they refused to do it. Others, i think its just the fact theyre here and its a good chance to stay if they could and they claim asylum. Mr. Hice is there any National Security threat . Because you didnt mention that. Mr. Sopko i think there is a National Security threat. We have people that totally disappeared and we dont know where they are. The state department has not been helpful to the department of Homeland Security in tracking them down. Mr. Hice why have they not been responsive to help track these individuals down . Mr. Sopko you have to ask the state department there. Mr. Hice are there specific individuals we need to ask . Have you seen obstruction . Have there been individuals standing in the way of getting answers . Mr. Sopko no. I cant say that. Mean, its the bureaucracy. Mr. Hice someone is running the bureaucracy. I think the potential as you mentioned, we dont know who these people are, dont know where they are. There are a certain people gone. We need to get a handle on this. Mr. Sopko we would be happy to brief you and give you information where the bottle neck is, sir. Mr. Hice id like that. How much money is being spent, do you know, training these afghans here in the u. S. . Mr. Sopko i dont know offhand. Let me ask my staff. We dont have that number, sir. Wed be happy to give it to you. Mr. Hice we appreciate that all right. You eluded to a few moments ago its just kind of the way it is but is there a better way to train these individuals than to bring them back here to the United States . Wouldnt it be potentially save a lot of taxpayer money if we were able to train them there in their homeland . Mr. Sopko congressman, it probably would save money but sometimes they have to do it here. I would actually cite one of the places where they do the training and had few people skip town or go awol is right in your hometown. Its at in the air force best place here the to train those pilots is in moody and this is one of the Success Stories we highlight. And its interesting in that area and i think it would be worthwhile to talk to the air force and moody why they are so successful in training those pilots and mechanics and they go back. So thats one of the Success Stories. And i think there they have to do the training there. Mr. Hice right. And i agree. Ive been there and i have seen what you are talking about and its a success story. I guess my thoughts are going beyond moody in some specialized places where its succeeding and overall potential of National Security threat where we are bringing individuals here that we dont know anything about, they get military training, they go awol. It sounds there is a significant portion of this program that could wisely be done in someplace other than the United States. Would you agree with that . Mr. Sopko i think its worth looking into it. We do discuss that but i think the first spot is just requiring inperson interviews for these military trainees by the state department. Mr. Hice and youre saying thats not happening . Mr. Sopko thats not happening and thats what the state department refused to acknowledge as being helpful. Mr. Hice all right. Did i hear you correctly moments ago, too, that this does happen with others but not happening with afghans, is that correct . Mr. Sopko yes. Thats whats so perplexing. For every type of visa they do do inperson interviews but dont do it for these people. Mr. Hice is there a specific policy where these people are waived from that particular part of vetting . Mr. Sopko its a policy of the state department. Mr. Hice just for this just for afghans . Mr. Sopko i cant speak beyond that, sir. Mr. Hice who can give me an answer . Mr. Sopko ill have the staff that worked on it get back to you. Mr. Hice please do so. I want to thank you for the great work that you do, for your forth right answers here in this hearing and with that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you. Mr. Desantis the gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes mr. Massie from kentucky for five minutes. Mr. Massie thank you, mr. Sopko, for your work in this capacity and i appreciate your matter of fact answers. Can you give us the total tab so far for afghan reconstruction since we started in roughly 2012 . Sopko mr. Massie if you want to round it off to the nearest billion . Mr. Sopko its 120. 7 billion for reconstruction and thats through september 30, 2017. But that doesnt include the 7. 42 billion thats in the pipeline. That means its been authorized, appropriated but not yet spent. Mr. Massie so the last time you were here 18 months ago it was 113 billion roughly and now were up to 120 billion and you say theres 7. 4 billion in the pipeline. The reason i ask that question is, it stands in contrast to something we heard our president say that we were fighting terrorism, were not nation building in afghanistan. Sounds like another 7. 4 billion in the pipeline might go to nation building. I noticed in our own budget were not cutting the money for, quote, nation building. Something else thats a little incongruous i want to get out on the table here. I used to see pictures on the internet of our soldiers standing in poppy fields and i never reposted those because i thought they would be photoshopped because i knew we had a war on drugs going on in afghanistan that on citizensably we were eradicating poppy fields over there. How much have we spent to date eradicating poppy and counternarcotics effort total in afghanistan . Mr. Sopko we cant break it down to eradication but altogether in fighting narcotics its 8. 6 billion with a b. Mr. Massie 8. 6 billion. I know i asked this question 18 months ago but ill ask it again. Has production of narcotics in afghanistan gone up or down since 2002, when we started spending that money . Mr. Sopko i dont know have the exact going back to 2002. I know since 2015 its gone up 43 . Mr. Massie 43 and we are still spending billions of dollars to eradicate poppy. I was at a town halltype meeting this weekend at a factory in my district and one f the attendees was a gulf veteran and he told me hes been standing in poppy fields and marijuana fields in afghanistan. So now i know the pictures are real that i see. Hose crops are there, and he struggled and i struggled to try to explain to the rest of the constituents in the room how that could be possible. How is that possible that were spending billions of dollars and we can see it everywhere, yet its not being destroyed . Mr. Sopko its possible for a couple reasons. First of all, its a very difficult because of the security situation. But the second reason is we have no strategy. I have complained for last three or four years, where is the counternarcotics strategy . Just like we have no strategy for fighting corruption. You need strategy. The good congressman, then you look at inputs, outcomes. You have metrics. We have no metrics. We have no strategy. What concerns me is that when general nicholson or general dunford testified that 60 of the funding going to the taliban terrorists comes from narcotics trafficking, and we have no strategy, now i think we all read in the press how we focused on isis and their relationship to Oil Production and we bombed the heck out of that Oil Production to cut off that funding source. Poor general nicholson is trying to fight the taliban and no ones focusing on 60 of the funding going to the taliban. Now, thats a serious problem. That is the per verbial elephant in the perverbial elephant in the room. We will never win in afghanistan if we dont focus on the whole narcotics problem. Mr. Massie in my brief time left, i want to talk about what winning looks like because i think theres also this Public Perception that stands in stark contrast what i heard from you and also from our secretary of state recently who i think is more of a realist here. Theres this public notion we routed the taliban and if we leave theyll come back to power. Yet, secretary tillerson says basically we are fighting to have a better negotiating position with the taliban. Have we routed the taliban and when we leave will they be gone . Mr. Sopko i am under oath. We havent routed the taliban. But i am not the best person to answer the questions on how well weve done on the war fighting. I do reconstruction. But you know, i just have to be honest with you, we have not routed the taliban. Mr. Massie when its mr. Desantis the gentlemans time has expired. The chair now recognizes ms. Foxx for five minutes. Ms. Foxx thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks to the witnesses who are here today. Mr. Sopko, are you optimistic that the security situation will improve enough to allow your team out to survey and oversee the reconstruction efforts . Mr. Sopko i believe the security situation will improve , and i believe if the m. O. U. With the department of defense and the state department on security is written and is carried out, we will be able to get out. Not as much as wed like but we would be at least be able to get out. Ms. Foxx and what is your view on the president s proposed troop increase impacting your ability to conduct oversight . Mr. Sopko i think it can only help, maam. Although most of the advisors and the troop increase will be on advising and training, we hope there will be an increase of Guardian Angels not only for them but also for others who need their protection. So we think its a positive step. Ms. Foxx and you may have said this before i came in but how is the d. O. D. Performed in the last year in getting facilities built quickly and at a much fairer price to taxpayers . Mr. Sopko i cannot give an assessment on that yet. Were actually looking at that right now and i cant really tell you what the conclusions are. Theyre trying, lets just say that. I think this military team here under general nicholson have done more than anyone on trying to hold the afghans accountable on corruption and other things. But i cant just give you an estimate on oversaw success. Ms. Foxx well, let me ask you a couple specific areas. Whats the status of the ministry of defense building . St year experienced some significant, lengthy construction delays. Could you give us an update on the status of that building . Mr. Sopko well, we made six inspection visits to that building, identified a number of deficiencies. Nd they accepted our recommendations, d. O. D. Did, and i think they have implemented, in that case, all of our recommendations. Ms. Foxx thank you very much. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Mr. Desantis the gentlewoman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina, mr. Jones, for five minutes. Mr. Jones mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I appreciate you holding this hearing. I wrote to President Trump on july 18 of this year asking him if he was going to increase the number of troops to please come to congress, first, and let us have a debate on the future of afghanistan. Since we all know weve been there 16 years. In that letter i wrote to the president , i note he had made 30 comments before he became a candidate and while he was a candidate about the waste in afghanistan. Im just going to use one of four that i put in the letter. In 2013 you tweeted, lets get out of afghanistan. Our troops are being killed by the afghanis we train and we waste billions there. Nonsense. Rebuild the United States of america. Thats just one of 30 comments he made about the waste, fraud and abuse in afghanistan. The next sentence, i said, mr. President , i agree with those remarks and so does the 31st commandant of the marine corps, my friend and unofficial advisor, general chuck krulack. As he said in a recent email to me, no one has ever conquered afghanistan and many have tried. We will join the list of nations that have tried and failed. Mr. Sopko, i met with you many times officially and unofficial with other members of congress. When i listen to what you have shared today and what you shared many times before and the waste, fraud and abuse continues to go on, it is a tribal nation. Everyone thats ever been to afghanistan, from the russians to alexander the great and the british, have never changed one thing in the world. I know people who dont appreciate you and your staff and what you do because many of them are in congress, not here in this committee today, that would like to cut your funding. That was a story in the newspaper a year ago. This m. O. U. Issue probably because theyre dragging their feet. Its neither here nor there. I dont know thats a fact because when the American People see the stories that come out from your report that every member of Congress Gets that same report, these stories i know there have been i got a handout front and back that i have a list of 50 stories about waste, fraud and abuse that i give to my constituents back in the district. And i guess what i want to try to get to is that at some point , time someone like yourself general nicholson if hes overseeing afghanistan, has got to say to the American People, we have spent billions and trillions of dollars to rebuild afghanistan and we cant build your bridges and roads right here in america. At some point in time this Congress Needs to have a debate after 16 years and let us have a new debate on the future of afghanistan because i will tell you truthfully, there are at least 90 members of the house, both parties, that were not here in 2001. I was here in 2001. And when i hear this waste, fraud and abuse consistently for 16 years, im on the Armed Services committee, it distresses me as a taxpayer. I have the Marine Base Camp Lejeune in my district. I talked to marines active duty and retirees who have been to afghanistan five, six and seven times and they say nothing will ever change. That has nothing to do with the work that you and your staff do. Yall are the truth tellers. The problem is that Congress Continues to pass bills to waste money over there and we cant even get a debate. So my last point very quickly. If you are here 10 years from now and i wont be here 10 years from now would you be willing to tell the american members of congress, the American People who are now financially broke as a nation have done about all they can do in afghanistan . I yield back. Mr. Sopko congressman, as you well know, and we had this discussion, i dont do policy. I do process. But i do promise you, the first day im out of this job because its not my job to talk policy i am happy to publicly tell you what i really think about our mission in afghanistan. But until then, its not my job to do that and i support this committee, the chairman, the Ranking Member for holding the hearings. Im a history buff and theres a famous quote by president lincoln, give the people the facts and the country will be free. And that is what our job is. We give you the facts and you as the policymakers decide whatever you do. I think congressman welch was very accurate on that. Whatever side you are on this issue, i just state the facts. You know, im like the umpire. We have a ballgame that was last night. Im calling strikes and outs and whatever. Some people may not like me but im still supporting the game. And thats what my job and your job is to take those facts and handle them appropriately. Mr. Jones thank you. Mr. Desantis thank you for the gentleman from north carolina. I want to thank the witnesses. I want to thank mr. Sopko for your service and i know youve taken trips over there. Its not an easy place to get to or get around. I think youve given us a lot of really good information and we thank you for that and obviously theres some lowhanging fruit we want to get to on both the congressional side but also hopefully with the Trump Administration. So the hearing record will be open for two weeks for any member to submit an Opening Statement or questions for the record. If theres no further business, without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] thank you, mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing. Thank you. Thank you. [inaudible] the hearing wraps up. Youll notice a couple of the pink protesters who often appeared in a number of hearings about afghanistan. If you go to the cspan Video Library and search code pink youll find a number of results there, including our q a with the code founder, the cofounder of code pink, media benjamin. On capitol hill, the release of the tax plan by republicans was et for today but c. Q. Writes House Committee chair kevin brady is trying to Reach Agreement on state and local tax deductions. The release pushed back tomorrow. President trump tweeting about tax reform saying, wouldnt it be great to repeal the very unfair and unpopular individual mandate in obamacare . Use those savings for further tax cuts. President also saying for the middle class, the house and senate should consider asap as the process of final approval moves along. Push biggest tax cuts ever. Well, the house is coming in just a bit. Theyll take up some nine bills today, including the fema disaster funds to fight wildfires. Also allowing more logging on federal land as a way to reduce wildfires. Later on today, several bills dealing with the state department. From the Foreign Affairs committee, including a measure that would allow the state department to deny or revoke u. S. Passports to people connected to foreign terrorist groups. Votes later on today. As we mentioned, tomorrow, the release of the republican tax plan. Now live to the house floor for todays session. The speaker the house will be in order. The prayer will be offered by the guest chaplain, the reverend dr. Michael w. Waters, Joy Tabernacle a. M. E. Church,