Transcripts For CSPAN Refugee Admissions Oversight 20171029

Me. s when it all turned on somebody full my hair, somebody by family from the other direction. Middlebury college for answer allison singer discussed a protest following the scheduled lecture by political scientist charles murray. Watcher tonight at eight eastern on cspan q a. Next, a look at the Refugee Admissions Program and concerns about fraud and abuse, vetting procedures, and naturals National Security. Members of the house judiciary subcommittee heard from representatives from several government agencies, including the acting assistant secretary for population, refugees, and migration, Simon Henshaw. The interview is about one hour and half. Mr. Labrador the subcommittee on immigration and Border Security will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recesses at any time. We welcome everyone to todays hearing on oversight of the United States refugee Admission Program, and now i recognize myself for an opening statement. I have long been a supporter of u. S. Refugee Admission Program and the important humanitarian mission that it serves. The United States and the peace and democracy under which we live should give hope to those around the world who face persecution by their government, that their home countries can at some point also be free of such tyranny. As a former immigration lawyer i have seen the u. S. I. R. P. At work firsthand. I have seen those who have been able to avail themselves of it, come to this country and thrive. But just like with many government programs, the start out with the best of intention and over the years prove to need updates, the time has come to reform of the program. A few problems ive come to light in recent years include fraud, unchecked executive authority and threats to our National Security. The House Judiciary Committee has highlighted some of these deficiencies over the last few years. For instance, we all know that during testimony in 2015, the former f. B. I. Director made troubling statements about the inability of Law Enforcement officials to properly vet applicants for refugee status. And former Administration Officials acknowledged in testimony to this committee that state and local consultation throughout the Refugee Resettlement process has not been as robust as needed in all cases. In fact, i have been approached by colleagues regarding this issue. Theyre concerned about the views of the state and localities they represent were ignored by an administration that simply wanted to resettle as many refugees as possible without regard to prudence. On the issue of fraud in the program, i am pleased that today we have the Government Accountability office here to discuss the report they issued this past spring one of which highlights potential fraud in the process. These issues i have mentioned as well as others leave led me to introduce h. R. 2826, the Refugee Program Integrity Restoration act of 2017. Among other things, the bill sets the annual refugee ceiling at 50,000, taking this responsibility from the president and placing it where it should be with us in congress. The bill also recognizes the states and localities should have a true say in whether or not their communities are able to resettle refugees. And h. R. 2826 contains provisions aimed at helping to detect fraud in the program and thus to reduce National Security concerns. In that vain, i know that this past tuesday marked the end of the 120day travel suspension for refugees pursuant to executive order 13780, and i know that the relevant departments have instituted enhanced screening and vetting procedures for refugee applicants with regard to one, the application process, two, the interview and adjudication process and, three, the system checks conducted on applicants. The Previous Administration always stated in response to any security related questions about the Refugee Program that certain refugees were the most vetted foreign nationals who enter the United States. But even if true, i never understood why the administration thought that simply because they were the most vetted that the vetting was sufficient. It seems that within months of taking over, the new administration has identified several areas in which vetting could be improved. I appreciate the attention to security concerns and the steps they have taken. I look forward to the testimony of the witnesses here today. And i yield back the balance of my time. I now recognize our Ranking Member, ms. Lofgren of california, for her opening statement. Ms. Lofgren like all members of congress, my highest priority is protecting our National Security. And todays hearing presents an opportunity to examine a threat to that security, President Trumps antirefugee agenda. Mr. Trump has characterized immigrants generally and refugees in particular as bad actors bent on harming americans. The conservative Cato Institute found that the odds of an american being killed in a terrorist attack by a refugee are one in 3. 64 billion. By comparison, odds of being struck by lightning are one in 700,000. The truth is refugees dont undermines our National Security, its President Trumps radical restrictions on their admission. Those include multiple refugee bans, a record low of refugee ceiling imposed at a time of record high global displacement. And a failure of American Leadership in the world. Let me identify two of the many ways in which these policies undermine our safety. First, by substantially lowering muslim refugee admissions, these measures project antimuslim sentiment that further fuels isis recruitment. Ryan crocker, a former ambassador to iraq and afghanistan, who served under republican and democratic administrations put it this way. Those who stand against Refugee Resettlement say theyre protecting the nation. Theyre not. Theyre putting the nation at greater risk by reinforcing the Islamic State narrative. In other words, Donald Trumps actions galvanize individuals bent on committing terrorist attacks against americans. Second, those policies damage partnerships with key allies in the fight against terrorism. Michael chertoff, d. H. S. Secretary under george w. Bush, specifically warned of the implications for our yirkey allies. Some iraqi allies. 60,000 of them await Refugee Resettlement in america. Many of their lives are at risk because of their assistance to the American Military and state department. The record low fiscal year 2018 refugee ceiling means that only a small portion of them will be resettle. By turning his back on these allies, President Trump discourages them, as well as other partners around the world, from helping the United States in future antiterror initiatives. It makes allamerican small amount more on the road to attack. Such consequences are so significant that white house aide Stephen Miller appears to have deliberately marginalized he u. S. Defense and National Security agencies in order to push through the record low refugee cap. Report, miller cut out the National Counterterrorism center, fbi, defense department, and joint stakeholdersff, from discussions about reducing Refugee Resettlement. It even quotes and state Department Official who cities that mr. Miller depressed evidence that was important to consider in determining a refugee number that would be beneficial to our National Security engines interests. The Trump Administration prioritizes antirefugee agenda over the safety of American People. With all of my democratic colleagues, i support rigorous refugee vetting measures. We have no higher duty than protecting the American People, this hope that the administration will not use claims of National Security, reviews of refugee vetting as cover to making a muslim band. It challenges the administrations claim that his previous ban advanced National Security objectives. Refugees to do more than just improve our National Security, their american identity and values. Thats why past president s of both parties embraced them. Contrary to this administrations suggestion, numerous studies prove they advance our economy. Healthy Human Services itself produce once of one of the studies. It showed that over a decade, refugees made a net positive Economic Contribution to the United States of some 63 billion. Another study found that refugees are significantly more likely than the navy board of americans to become entrepreneurs, and thereby create jobs for american workers. In my district, refugees have a measurable our community. Im troubled by the disconnect between the administrations reality rhetoric and reality. Im hoping today will show greater regard for the truth. Values, damage our economy, make all of us less safe. I would also like to add that when refugees and asylum these enter our country, and they have Constitutional Rights that must respected, im sure we will explore that further in the course of this hearing. I yield back the balance of my time. I would now like to recognize the full Committee Chairman for his opening statement. I very much appreciate you holding this hearing today on this important issue with this outstanding panel of witnesses. The United States has a generous Refugee Program, has provided millions of people fleeing persecution with safe haven, we refugees in the last fiscal year, we settled 50700 and 16 refugees. While we should continue that great tradition, it has become clear that our refugee laws and policies have been abused and that they need reform. Act of 1980 created our current Refugee Resettlement process, in which the president sets the annual limits to the number of refugees and resettled during the next fiscal year. Who could be considered admissible as a refugee and how and when those refugees could just to lawful permanent refugee status. In addition, the act put in place a process for the federal government to work through nongovernmental agencies to resettle refugees. Ofyears later, Members Congress and the American Public are voicing a growing number of concerns about how many and the process through which refugees are admitted to the United States, as well as what happens when they are admitted. The federal government has done little to respect those concerns. Under the Previous Administration, when a state or locality expressed immunity concerns about Refugee Resettlement, the ministration repeated the soundbites that refugees undergo the most rigorous background checks of any immigrants in the United States. That statement ignored the concerns of several security is noals, if there information regarding the potential refugee in the databases that are checked, and then no derogatory information will show up during the check. It ignored the fact that in many states from which refugees are admitted, failed states, there is no reliable information about refugees. 300now that over individuals being actively investigated for terrorist related activities by the fbi came to the United States as refugees. We know that at least two of the 10 successful terrorist attacks. 11 2001soil, september were perpetrated by individuals who enter the United States as refugees. In addition to security locality if a state or express concerns about the cost of Refugee Resettlement, or the lack of available employment opportunities, the Prior Administration and did little in response. It was simply their view that the federal government has a right to resettle refugees all across america. While there may be true, it is not necessarily the best practice. Many organizations do wonderful and necessary work, but it essentially ignoring the pleas of communities across the u. S. Resettlementefugee decisions to the Administration Simply feeds opposition to refugee admissions on the whole. That the Trump Administration has already addressed some of the concerns i have laid out today. For instance, i was happy to see that executive order 13 780, signed on march 6, 2017, recognized the problem with lack of state and local consultation prior to resettlement. It asked the fact secretary of state to promote state and local involvement in the resettlement decisions. Of course, the same executive order required a review of refugee processing to determine what improvements could be made in the process and then to implement those improvements. I look forward to hearing today how the department of homeland state, and health and Human Services are working together to improve the entire u. S. Refugee Admissions Program. Resettlement,t the program can remain a valuable and viable part of u. S. Immigration policy. Thank you mr. Chairman, i yield back. I would now like to recognize the full Committee Ranking member for his opening statement. Thank you mr. Chairman. Witnesses andning everyone else here. Over the course of todays hearing on the United States Refugee Admissions Program, there are several factors that i want our witnesses and members to consider. We begin with it is incontrovertible that the United States since its founding, has been a nation of immigrants. Fact, itition of that will be an undeniable value that immigrants contribute to our collective wellbeing, it has provided safe harbor for the persecuted. True to these values, as president s, republican and democratic alike, have championed robust Refugee Resettlement. For example, the annual refugee admissions ceiling has averaged 94,000 since the refugee act of worldsking america the resettlement leader. And just one year ago, the cap was increased to 110,000 in response to the global humanitarian crisis fueled by wars and unstable political environments. Unfortunately, the current fashion,ation in swift abandoned americas bipartisan leadership in this arena. Pursuant to executive orders, President Trump issued a series of refugee bans. Even set a fiscal year 2018 ceiling of 45,000, the lowest in modern history. In terms of per capita Refugee Resettlement, that ranks the United States behind eight other nations. Under any circumstances, these actions would fly in the face of our countrys values, but coming at a time when worldwide refugee levels have soared to the highest in history, this cap to me is unconscionable. And worst yet, the administrations purported justification shorts actions are basis. It argues that the Refugee Program poses a security threat. Democrats been, committed to rigorous refugee betting. National Security Experts from both parties agree that it is the absence of robust resettlement that truly undermines americas safety. Admissions refugee President Trump damages to me he alliances and the ongoing fight against terrorism and strengthens isis recruitment. The administration also claims that refugees fail to assimilate , and that they drain public resources. Again, however, the facts are. Therwise according to reports, an internal study by the department of health and Human Services suppressed by the administration shows that refugees contributed billion toive 63 the United States over a 10 year periods. In other words, it is not refugees, but the president s restrictions of their admission that the saps the nations coffers. In sum, trump doesnt leave lots of refugees in danger and just dont violate core American Values, they weaken our National Security, damage our economy, and undermine the nations core of core values. All of this begs the question of what really fuels such policies. Tragically, the answer to that question appears to be to me a combination of naivitism, fake facts and perhaps a little bigotry, drawing from arguments made by any immigrant organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups. Links to White Nationalists. The administration has even proposed a refugee assimilation such as xenanvokes phobic measures as the eugenics field 1924 immigration act, which restricted immigrations from Southern Europe and branded banded from asia. Like the 1924 act, the present the present administrations refugee policies are equally inexcusable. Witnesses, i urge our policiesexamine these unflinchingly and to assess how gravely they endanger our values, our economy, and even our National Security. I look forward to your testimony. And i think the chairman and yield back. Mr. Labrador without objection, other members Opening Statements will be made part of the record. Ms. Lofgren mr. Chairman, may i be granted to grant unanimous consent statements from the hebrew immigrant aid society, International Assistant project the u. S. Catholic conference of , bishops, truth world services, the Episcopal Church and letter to acting secretary and director eric cardin and director lloyd from over 100 organizations, including the california womens for choice,atholics the american rabbis, human rights campaign, and many others. Mr. Labrador without objection. Today we have a distinguished panel. The witnesses statements will be entered into the record. I ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes or less. To help you stay within that time, there is timing on your table, when it switches from green to yellow, you will have one minute to conclude your testimony. When it turns red, it signals that your five minutes have expired. Witnesses,oduce our i would like you to stand and be sworn again. [witnesses sworn in] let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative, thank you and please be seated. As Simon Henshaw has served the acting assistant secretary and the department of state since july 15, 2017. Mr. Henshaw previously serviced Indian Affairs in the state Departments Bureau of western Affairs Deputy chief admission in the University Embassy of hundreds and several other state departments. Mr. Henshaw attended the National War College where he earned a masters of science in National Security affairs and has a bachelor of arts in history from the university of massachusetts at a. M. At our first. Lee Francis Cissna is the director of u. S. Citizenship. Previously, he served as a rector for immigration policy. Ofacting director immigration and Border Security party in the dhs office of policy. Before serving at d. H. S. , he worked in the office of the chief counsel as an associate counsel in the adjudications law division. Mr. Cissna received his j. D. From georgetown university. He received a masters degree in International Affairs from columbia university, and bachelors degree in both physics and Political Science from the institute of technology. That is an interesting combination. Mr. Scott lloyd is the director of the office of Refugee Resettlement. He worked as an attorney at the knights of columbus. He worked in private practice at the department of Human Services and on capitol hill. Mr. Lloyd received his undergraduate education at James Madison university and earned at Catholic University school of law. Ms. Rebecca gambler is director of the u. S. Accountability Office Homeland Security and justice team where she leads work on Border Security and election issues. Ms. Gambler joined g. A. O. In 2002. Ms. Gambler at the National Endowment for democracy. She has an m. A. In National Security and strategic studies from the United States Naval War College and m. A. In International Relations from Syracuse University and m. A. In Political Science from the university of toronto. I now recognize mr. Henshaw for his statement. Mr. Henshaw thank you very much. Thank you for holding this hearing on the u. S. Refugee Admissions Program which i will refer to it as usrap. I appreciate to address you. I appreciate the opportunity to address my colleagues. Together the department of state, d. H. S. And h. H. S. Plan to bring up to 45,000 refugees to the United States through the usrap through fiscal year 2018. The security and welfare of the American People is this administrations top priority. We have instituted additional procedures in the usrap application interview and adjudication processes to strengthen our vetting system and we will find ways to make our screening procedures in more effective in order to protect the American People. For those eligible for protection as refugees, we are committed to detering and detecting fraud among those seeking to resettle in the United States. We will have measures to protect against threats against our National Security. In f. Y. 2018, the United States expects to permanently resettle more refugees than any other country and will continue to offer protection to the most vulnerable of those who have been persecuted because of race, religion, nationality, membership in a political social particular social group or a political opinion. Since 1975, the United States has welcomed 3. 4 million refugees and the United States operates the Largest Program in the world. Through our generous Assistance Program the United States demonstrates its commitment to protecting the most vulnerable of the worlds refugees while keeping america safe from harm. According to the United Nations High Commissioner for refugees there are 65. 6 million displaced , people in the world today, 22. 5 million of whom are refugees. The United States focuses on three solutions to address the World Refugee situation, local voluntary repatriation, local integration, and resettlement to a third world country. Unhcrited states recognized that most refugees with like to return to their homeland and we share the priority of helping facilitate the voluntary repatriation in safety and dignity. In 2016, 552,000 refugees were repatriated to their countries of origin. For those refugees who are unable to return safely, the United States supports efforts to help refugees to become selfsufficient and locally integrate into their countries first asylum. Toencourage host governments protect refugees and allow them to integrate into local communities. We brought local integration by funding programs to enhance selfreliance and support communitybased social services. Our support has enabled numerous to integrate even awaiting voluntary repatriation. From refugees who were unable to return safely or reintegrate locally resettlement in third , countries provides durable protection. The vetting process is managed by d. H. S. And departments of state and defense, the f. B. I. And Intelligence Community including the National Counterterrorism center. D. H. S. Retains the authority to refuse admission. In response to executive order 13780, protecting the United States, refugee admissions were suspended for 120day period with the exception of certain cases. During this period, the departments of state and Homeland Security and the office of director for National Intelligence and additional intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies reviewed the screening regime. The program is in the midst of an additional review of National Countries with the potential for higher risk. U. S. Rep is premised upon the idea that upon resettlement refugees should become economically self sufficient. The department of state works with agencies participating in the reception and Placement Program to ensure that refugees receive services during the first 90 days in accordance with established standards. During and after the resettlement. , the department of health and Human Services office of refugee settlement provides Technical Assistance and funding to the states and district of columbia to help refugees to become thank you very much. I look forward to responding to your questions. Mr. Labrador i now recognize mr. Cissna for five minutes. Since this is my first opportunity to address any part of congress in my new capacity as director, i wanted to take a moment to let you know some of my philosophy regarding the work we do. Upon my arrival, about two weeks ago, i made it clear that my vision of the agencys mission is one that focuses on three things, efficiency, fairness and lawfulness. Efficiency, the sheer volume of the work that we do makes it imperative that efficiency be one of the key goals. Movement from paperbased processes to one that leverages the latest technology will allow us to go through the applications. Fairness, transparency and our operations from inquiries is essential to the question of fairness. Under my leadership, we are committed to providing the accurate and complete information to the public whether they are applicants, petitioners or the general public. Doing so will demonstrate our promise to adjudicate petitions fairly. Finally, lawfulness. Everything we do must be done in accordance with the law. Nobel intentions have created policies that circumvent or contradict our nations immigration laws. I will ensure that everything we do policy and process is always in agreement with the law. You can be sure these principles will be applied to every operation including todays topic. We are prepared to work closely with the department of state and other interagency to support our Refugees Program up to 45,000 arrivals in f. Y. 2018 while at the same time maintaining and improving the integrity of our program and National Security. On march 6 of this year, President Trump issued an executive order called protecting the nation from Foreign Terrorists entry. The president stated this, it is the policy of the United States to protect its citizens from terrorist attacks including those committed by foreign nationals. While the executive order has been the subject of litigation and portions of it were enjoined for a time, we have worked to strengthen the integrity of the u. S. Receive few Admission Program consistent about its legal obligations. Pursuant to that executive order, we have engaged in 120day period that ended two days ago. I would like to share some of the results of that review. As a result of the review, the federal government is implementing that have raised the bar including enhancing the collection of biometric information, better information sharing between state and d. H. S. And new training procedures to strengthen screeners ability to detect fraud and deception. Recognizing that the suspension of the Refugee Program has served its purpose, the president issued a new executive order ending the suspension and directing us to resume processing consistent with the improved vetting measures. While d. H. S. , state and the direct ate of National Intelligence have deemed it adequate, they have also concluded that additional indepth review is needed from refugees from 11 countries. Consequently admissions from those highrisk countries will resume but on a case by case basis during a 90day period. As they complete country reviews, they may resume processes from those countries. These new measures are part of the administrations initiative to raise National Security standards across the board. These enhancements will continue to be evaluated to ensure National Security, the administration will continue to work closely with Law Enforcement and intelligence communities on these security enhancements and work with you that operational and legislative efforts are well coordinated. Finally, i wanted to touch one subject and that is the asylum backlog. We are looking at 300,000 cases. Mr. Labrador well let you touch on that in question and answer. I recognize mr. Lloyd for five minutes. Mr. Lloyd thank you everyone. Thank you for inviting me to discuss the department of health and Human Services responsibilities to help refugees resettle. Im scott lloyd and director of office of refugee settlement. I oversee programs that are victims of trafficking and other populations with support and services to assist them to become integrated members. In my testimony today, i will describe the role that h. H. S. Plays and upcoming initiatives that the office plans to pursue. In addition to refugees, special immigrant holders and victims are eligible for our services. The mission is to link these populations to resources to help them become assimilated members. In fiscal year 2016, the United States resettled refugees from 89 countries. 212,000 individuals were eligible for services through our programs. We carry out its mission through grants and related services administered by nonprofits including faithbased groups and Publicprivate Partnership network. These grants provide timely and cash assistance as well as Case Management services and english language classes all designed to facilitate their transition and assimilation into the United States. To ensure the Successful Transition for refugees, we fund cash and medical assistance for individuals who are determined not eligible for s. S. I. , tanf and medicaid. O. R. R. Provides assistance to eligible assistance up to eight months. A portion of new entrants participating in the matching Grant Program rather than the Assistance Program. In fiscal year 2302016, matching grant was 35,000 and special immigrant visa holders and reported selfsufficiency rates for refugees 180 days after arrival. We provide funds to state governments and private nonprofit agencies to support social Services Including english language services. We allocate the use of these funds based on a formula on the data that accounts for momplets to other states after their initial resettlement. We provide targeted assistance grants to states with qualifying counties that have high numbers of refugee arrivals. Services provided are generally designed to help refugees secure employment within one year. Programs support Economic Development activities. Services provided are generally these programs focus on legitimately and match savings in support of housing purchases, educational goals and hundreds of business startups. We are committed to achieving a culture of excellence. To do this, the program is redoubling its efforts to obtain dependable data and incorporate evidencebased decision making. We are improving data and research how refugees are integrating into the United States. We have awarded two research contracts. The first contract will look at the survey of refugees. We have worked to improve the design to ensure that we have nationally representative data on refugees first five years in the United States. The Second Research contract will assess ways to improve the survey. In addition, we are particularly interested in enhancing Data Collection from our local and state service providers. We are working on a number of related data and collection initiatives to strengthen program recordings. I welcome this committees interest. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the work we perform. And i will be happy to answer any questions. Mr. Labrador i recognize ms. Gambler for five minutes. Ms. Gambler i appreciate the opportunity to testify at todays hearing to discuss g. A. O. s work on the process which refugees seek to be resettled. The United States admitted 85,000 refugees in 2016 and 50,000 in 2017. Questions have been raised regarding the adequacy of the process for screening refugees seeking resettlement and the process vulnerable to fraud. Two reports issued earlier this year, we examined to oversee and implement the u. S. Refugee program and efforts to identify and address potential fraud in the program. My oral remarks summarize g. A. O. s key findings and recommendations in three areas. One, policies and procedures for case processing, two, policies and procedures for adjudicating refugee applications and efforts to assess and address fraud risks. First, state through its nine support centers oversees has policies and procedures for processing refugee referrals and applications to the United States. State procedures include requirements for these centers to conduct interviews and obtain information on their persecution story and they have various mechanisms to oversee the report centers. State does not have Performance Indicators to assess the centers performance. We recommended that state develop such indicators and state concurred. Second, with some of the department of Homeland Security, we have policies and procedures to adjudicate refugee applications. For those adjudications that we were able to observe, we found that the staff generally implemented these procedures. We found that they provided training to all officers to adjudicate applications abroad. Specifically, we found that officers who adjudicated applications on a temporary basis did not receive the same amount or type of training as fulltime officers. We recommended that they provide additional training for temporary officers and they have since done so. With regard to Quality Assurance, they have not regularly assessed the quality of refugee adjudication and temporary officers and they have applications are well documented and legally sufficient. Thus we recommended that they conduct regular Quality Assurance assessments of refugee adjudication. State has procedures to mitigate fraud risk. While in frequent, instances of staff fraud has occurred such as processing staff some listing pribes. They have design control activities. However state has not required that all centers conduct risk fraud assessments. Applicant fraud, in the past, the state has suspended resettlement programs because of fraud. They have implemented mechanisms to prevent it but they have not joinly risk programwide. State does not have comprehensive information on risks that may infect the integrity of the process. We recommend that they review and use them to examine the suit built of existing fraud controls. We recommended that state and they conduct joint fraud risk assessments. State concurred with these recommendations. In closing, given the potential consequences that the outcome of decisions on refugee applications have on the vulnerable populations and the United States, it is important the United States government has a process to allow resettlement while preventing those with malicious intent to gain entry. This completes my prepared statement. Mr. Labrador we will proceed on the fiveminute rule. I will recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Henshaw, as you know last year, the u. S. Entered into an agreement with australia to accept 1,000 refugees. Many of whom are from countries. When this committee inquired, we were told it was classified. Reports indicated that the deal was little more than australia geeg to settle. Dont you agree the American People to know the details of that agreement . Mr. Henshaw it is our intention to make public as much as the agreement as we can. The report that you initially referred to was classified and remains classified and unable to declassify it. But nevertheless mr. Labrador why is that . Mr. Henshaw sir, the original mr. Henshaw sir, the original report was classified by the australians and we have an agreement to classify it. Mr. Labrador will you commit to supporting the declassification of the agreement . We are talking about an agreement that affects the lives of American People, not the australian people. How do we let our people know what is in that agreement and what were doing . Mr. Henshaw i will work towards declassifying the report. Most of the information in the report is already in the public domain. Mr. Labrador we need to know from the government not what has been leaked to the press. I want testimony on what exactly we agreed to with the australians. Will you commit to do that . Mr. Henshaw i will work to continue to declass tie. Mr. Labrador can you explain the role of the Refugee Program. Mr. Henshaw we use r. F. C. s to enter the original data on refugees who are we are considering for resettlement into the United States. We do some early interviewing and to collect data and information from them so it can be later used by d. H. S. And enter that into our so that the security reviews can be carried out. Mr. Labrador what types of fraud has been carried out . Mr. Henshaw im not prepared to give full details. I just dont have it with me on fraud. Mr. Labrador didnt you know you were coming to testify about this program . So why are you not prepared . Mr. Henshaw i can give you some examples, if you would like. We have had a couple of cases where where people have we have had a couple of cases where people have have attempted to to betray their information. But in all cases that im aware of. Mr. Labrador i would like to see a report on what kinds of fraud. I thought that was the purpose of this hearing and im dumbfounded that we dont have that information. I would like to know and trying to figure out what is happening with this program. Mr. Cissna, can you explain why the decision was made to concentrate on asylum cases as opposed to refugee cases . Mr. Labrador Previous Administration told us that refugees underwent the most rigorous vetting. Several ways to enhance the process have now been identified. Thats news to the Previous Administration. Can you explain what some of those holes in the process were and what changes have been made . I wouldnt call them holes but the processes that we have had in place could have been improved and will be improved. We are improving our processes and the guidance to people in the field to root out fraud and determine correct. And the types of checks are being expanded and enhanced to make sure we get the most possible value. Mr. Labrador i recognize the gentlelady from california, the Ranking Member of this subcommittee. Ms. Lofgren thank you, mr. Chairman. I cant help but note that yesterday we marked up a bill that would allow hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of workers paid subminimum wage to come into the u. S. Without any vetting. If i was a potential terrorist, i would look at that root. Mr. Labrador they know how to do it. Ms. Lofgren moving right along, i would like to ask you, mr. Lloyd, about policies relative to the rights of and know that we are well aware a 17yearold immigrant woman in o. R. R. Custody was blocked from accessing an abortion and forced to continue a pregnancy against her will. She is a minor. But the court had decided that she had the maturity to make the decision on her own. And yet, she continued to be blocked from this constitutionally protected health care. She wasnt asking the government to pay for her care or transport to her doctor, but just to get out of the facility so she could access her constitutional right that she had to terminate her pregnancy, obviously as a 17yearold she could not legally consent to the i dont know whether she was violently raped or product of statutory rape. She was finally released because the court did intervene. I would like to ask you about your general belief about the rights of women and girls that are were in o. R. R. s custody. Do you believe that women and girls in your custody have Constitutional Rights like other people who are in america or do you think that Constitutional Rights, for example, to due process and privacy depend on immigration status . Mr. Cicilline i think anybody mr. Cissna we provide shelters, a number of locations throughout the country. Mr. Lloyd anybody who comes into the United States comes with potential to become a full u. S. Citizen with full rights to all the freedoms we enjoy, including the freedom to live freely and bear arms and to vote and others. But thats always subject to a process whether its if they come through u. A. C. Or some other means. Its a process whereas the person who moves through the process and they gain ms. Lofgren let me interrupt, the due process clause applies to everybody whos here, i believe. Thats what i learned in law school and the case law seems to say. Do you agree with that . Mr. Lloyd yes. Ms. Lofgren let me ask you in terms of moving forward prospectively, the Washington Post reports and we dont know if this is true or not, which is why im asking you, that suggested that you have personally intervened to try and persuade minors not to have abortions. I would like to know, did you have direct contact with the young woman in this case that was in the paper . Do you have direct contact with other pregnant girls in the care of o. R. R. . And do you have any medical training . Mr. Lloyd forgive me but some of the answers to the questions that youre asking are my ability to answer them fully are really limited by a number of factors including the court orders and also our duty to protect the individual ms. Lofgren im not asking for a name. Vufrl contacted any anonymous young girl in your care trying to talk her out of having an abortion . Mr. Lloyd as the director, i run the program, the Repatriation Program and receive few resettlement program. And i meet with dozens and even perhaps hundreds of people who we serve the populations we serve. Among them, im certain that some of them were pregnant at the time. Ms. Lofgren im disturbed that you wont answer the question. And my time has expired. Mr. Labrador i recognize the gentleman from iowa. Mr. King listening to the gentleladys dialogue, what has been created by an unelected judge, the minor who can sneak into the United States and still subject to deportation. She had the full ability to go back to her home country and back to her home country and subject huh herself to the laws of her own country and this is a terrible precedent set by this judge and i hope this full Judiciary Committee addresses the rogue judges we have and this includes judge watson out in hawaii and the judge in washington that seem to be venue shopping people that decide they are going to challenge the statutes of the United States, dualy passed by the United States congress and signed into law by the president of the United States and for them to turn that completely upside down. I would like to turn to mr. Cissna and there is questions about the executive orders and the challenges that have taken place. I read the statute. Its very clear. Congress has granted the president the authority who comes and goes with the security interests. And doesnt say that a judge can look over his shoulder and determine that his judgment is flawed and his judgment is superior. Do you have any opinions on that statute after i have expressed mine, mr. Cissna. Mr. Cissna with respect to the refugee statute, its pretty clear that the authority to let refugees in is totally discretionary. The authorities we are using to restart the program comply with that and the types of checks we are doing and all those things we have talked about earlier are in full compliance with that. Mr. King and you discussed enhanced biometric collection. Could you expand on that, please . Mr. Cissna in a i probably wouldnt be able to get into big detail because of Law Enforcement sensitivities. But i can say the types of the classes of people from whom biometrics will be taken will be expanded. So more people will get it. And the types of data bases against their checks will be expanded. Mr. King are we talking fingerprints . Mr. Cissna yes. Mr. King facial recognition . Mr. Cissna we have taken photographs. Mr. King and those are the biometrics we are discussing . Mr. Cissna yes. Mr. King d. N. A. , i hope one day, cheap to get and cheap to keep. I would like to turn to ms. Gambler, in your report, some questions came to mind to me and you are high commercial in refugees, can you tell me does the High Commission on refugees, do they do background checks on any of the lists they maintain and pass over to us for potential refugees . Ms. Gambler we can follow up and see what specific information we have on that, congressman king and get back to you. Under the framework of cooperation that exists between the department of state, there are kind of some feedback back and forth on that. We would be happy to follow up. Mr. King i would appreciate if you could do that. But it would be my understanding that at this point you are not aware what background checks might be done if any . Ms. Gambler well follow up with you on that. The u. S. Refugee Admissions Program is a Multi Lateral process. Once referrals are made, thats when the federal government adjudication and security mr. King as far as i know, the information thats referred to us from the agency, doesnt have a background check, but simply a file that gets passed on to us. So in the background checks that we do have that we are relying upon in this vetting process that the president has described, if theres no legal existence of that individual in their home country, if it comes up empty, we are stamping them u. S. Approved. Ms. Gambler as we noted, government officials have said that the security checks are reliant on the information. Mr. King if theres none available i ask unanimous consent for one more short question. Mr. Labrador without objection. Mr. King i think i have forgotten the question. But it was that with vetting process that we have and lack of biometrics that we have, im going to suspend that because i dont think its well enough thought out. And thank you for your attention. Mr. Labrador i yield to the Ranking Member of the full committee. Mr. Conyers i appreciate the discussion that has been generated. Let me start off by observing that since the Trump Administration has come into being, recent requests submitted by democratic members staff have been repeatedly ignored or delayed. Discussion that has been do each of you promise to respect and satisfy the briefing and other requests staffs make from both the republican and democratic members alike. Mr. Cissna . You ok with that mr. Cissna im ok with providing any Technical Assistance or briefings that you want from my agency. Mr. Conyers mr. Lloyd, you ok with that . Mr. Lloyd yes. He mr. Henshaw yes, sir. Mr. Conyers i wanted to observe is what my district has benefited greatly from the Economic Contributions of the refugee community. Rove few geese from around the world live and reside and own businesses in the detroit area that i represent. And i welcome these hardworking refugees and think that my opinion and think that my community is better as a result. And economists have also found that refugees have higher entrepreneurship, make significant contributions to the economy and on average, more than 21,000 in taxes than they receive in benefits. And i got a couple of studies that back it up. Id like consent to include them in the record, mr. Chairman. The new American Economy struggles to resilience as well as the economic and social outcome of refugees in the United States. And i ask unanimous consent to enter them into the record. Mr. Labrador without objection. They will be entered into the record. Mr. Conyers thank you very much. Is there general agreement among all of our witnesses that there have been a great benefit of these refugees that make communities like mine better as a result . Is there general agreement with that from all of you here this morning . I dont disagree that many refugees make enormous contributions to our country, yes. Yes, sir. Absolutely. I concur. Ms. Gambler yes. Mr. Conyers all right. Let me get to the question or observation raised by mr. Lloyd. How do you think refugees are doing on the question of assimilating . Do you believe refugees are currently assimilating or not assimilating . Mr. Lloyd in any question like that, its a casebycase basis but thats one of the goals in our program, saving lives in the u. S. , especially job placement and english language courses. Mr. Conyers i know its going to be on a casebycase basis. But i mean in general, do you think that currently assimilation is coming along ok or not . Mr. Lloyd generally from what i have been able to see, i think have been able to see, i think so, yes. Mr. Conyers any other views that anyone wants to recommend on this question that i have asked . Is assimilation a problem or is it working ok . Can i get the response . Mr. Labrador you can respond . Mr. Cissna we do look at assimilation and grants programs. Mr. Henshaw something we want to look at more carefully in this fiscal year and want to look at it as well. Mr. Conyers anyone else want to chime in on this. My time has expired, but you can answer the question. We concentrate on selfsufficiency and have good results and many refugees contributing to society in america. Mr. Labrador the gentlemans time has expired. Ms. Lofgren may i put in the record a letter from 24 national and religiousbased objecting to the abortion policy. Mr. Labrador i recognize the gentleman from louisiana for five minutes. Director cissna, prior to now, what information was not being shared between state and d. H. S. Thats now going to be shared to enhance the safety of the Refugee Program . Mr. Cissna that would fall in the Law Enforcement sensitivities that i dont feel comfortable discussing in open forum. Can you explain to the committee how the department of Homeland Security has modified its training of d. H. S. Refugee officers and bad actors who try to abuse the program . Mr. Cicilline the training has been very robust and had weeks and weeks of training and additional five and six weeks on top of that and countryspecific training that focuses on the type of fraud and other conditions. In the wake of the working group that implemented the executive order, we are going to further increase and improve training so that the officers are able to even better assess credibility, which is the key element in interviewing the people and determining whether the person is inadmissible under the law. Sometimes they vr criminal offenses and trying to train our adjudicateors. Speaking of the credibility determination, do you think it would be a good time to review our asylum standards . Would it be wise for congress to tighten the standards to ensure our system is not abused offenses and trying to train our especially in light of this backlog of 300,000 cases . Mr. Cissna i do. And this is one of the immigration priorities that the administration advanced a week or two or so ago. We asked that the Congress Examine that issue. I think that the question would be whether the credible fear standard is clear enough to be implemented properly. And i dont think it is. I think it should be clarified so the assessments are made better and the people who dont meet that standard are weeded out. We have been working on legislation to address that. Can you explain the fraud that has occurred at the resettlement center. Whats your thought on that . Ms. Gambler as part of our audit work, we did identify that although infrequent. There are cases of fraud that occurred so we give examples in our report. And in one case, our staff were sole ising bribes on the promise of being able to help expedite applications. Interpretors were seeking bribes. I think to States Credit in response to those instances of fraud, they did take action to respond and strengthen their processes going forward, but there have been some cases of fraud identified as it relates to r. S. C. s. The u. S. Consistently admits per year vastly more resettleled receive few geese. What diplomatic pressure or other measures are being used to push these countries to admit more of those refugees . We participate nrl worldwide meetings of resettlement countries and push other countries to take additional refugees. We use that in diplomatic meetings and humanitarian meetings and other meetings around the world to urge other countries and pushed countries that havent been in the resettlement business before to get in that business. Mr. Henshaw and one of the alternatives that we have pushed is to look for alternative methods for people to enter their countries on different kinds of working visas or such. Refugees are provided loans to cover costs to the u. S. And im curious to know about the loan repayment rate and steps to ensure prompt repayment of those rates. Mr. Henshaw it differs among populations but generally well over 75 and other populations significantly over that. And we look for ways to repayment of those loans. What are the repercussions to what are the repercussions to a refugee who doesnt pay back a loan . What about that 25 . Mr. Henshaw i believe it affects their credit rating, but i would have to get back to you on other details. Would you get that information . Mr. Henshaw i would do that. Mr. Labrador i yield to the gentlelady from washington. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and let me pick up on the questions of the Ranking Member of our subcommittee, mrs. Love green. Mr. Lloyd, do you believe that a womans constitutional right to an abortion depends on her immigration status . Mr. Lloyd any entry into the United States ms. Jayapal do you believe that a womans constitutional right depends on her immigration status, yes or no . Mr. Lloyd a number of rights. Ms. Jayapal that is not a yes or no. Mr. Lloyd any number of rights is where they stand in terms of our immigration system. Ms. Jayapal is that a yes or no . Ill take that as a no. So do you believe that immigrants have Constitutional Rights . Mr. Lloyd once again, if somebody wants to come into the United States ms. Jayapal ill take that as a no. Mr. Lloyd, do you have medical training of any kind . Mr. Lloyd if i need advice regarding any medical situation, regarding the population that i serve, i consult ms. Jayapal the answer is you dont have any medical training. Are you trained to provide Counseling Services to people, mr. Lloyd . Mr. Lloyd if Counseling Services are called tore, i rely on the team of counseling professionals to advise me in my role. Ms. Jayapal mr. Role, what expertise makes you qualified in this jane doe case to override the determination of a Texas State Court that jane doe is mature and competent to make her own decisions . Ms. Jayapal what expertise qualifies new this jane doe court, a Texas State Court that jane doe is mature and competent enough to make her decisions . Mr. Lloyd im not going to comment on any individual case. In any case that comes across my desk, were going to look at the totality of circumstances that may affect their case. That may include legal, it may include policy considerations, medical, social welfare considerations, and we have teams of experts and staff who are well equipped to advise me on any number of those things. In terms of how what outcomes were going to come to or what decisions were going to make, its going to come from the totality of that advice and the facts on the ground. Ms. Jayapal is anybody able to review or override your decision . Or are you the ultimate Decision Maker with regards to a womans ability to exercise her constitutional right to abortion . Mr. Lloyd the office of Refugee Resettlement is situated within the department of health and Human Services administration for children and families. So i answer to the assistant secretary for children and families and to the secretary of health and Human Services. Ms. Jayapal mr. Lloyd, is it your intent to block unaccompanied minors from accessing abortion care . Or will you instruct providers to deny minors other types of Reproductive Health care, like contraception or information on contraceptive methods . How far is your jurisdiction over this issue going to extend . Mr. Lloyd again, any time or any circumstances is going to depend on the totality of facts that any individual case brings before us. Its always going to be a case by case determination. Ms. Jayapal its extremely troubling to me whats happening. I think youre far overreaching over your expertise or your jurisdiction. Mr. Henshaw, from the beginning america has been a refuge for the prosecuted. Keeping with our values, weve championed refugees and regarded the Refugee Program as core to the nations identity. And in fact, 20 National Security leaders, including henry kissinger, michael chertoff, madeline albright, wrote in a 2015 letter, and im quoting, that resettlement initiatives help advance u. S. National security interests by supporting the stability of our allies and partners that are struggling to host large numbers of refugees. And yet this administration has repeatedly and contrary to evidence characterized refugees as frauds, security threats and resource strains. To what extent and why do you think this administrations view of refugees is so dramatically different from the long standing bipartisan tradition and fundamental American Values . Mr. Henshaw security is our utmost concern with any Refugee Program. We have over the years often reevaluated our program to make sure that the Security Standards are met and thats what were doing now. I believe that the current plan to bring in up to 45,000 refugees this year is well within our past history of refugee numbers. And signifies that we are still the leader in Refugee Resettlement in the United States. In the world, sorry. Ms. Jayapal mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent for one more short question. Thank you so much. Mr. Henshaw, the white house has recently released a statement of immigration principles, cited a misleading study claiming to show that the United States can resettle 12 refugees in safe zones near their home countries for the cost of resettling one refugee domestically. Are you aware who have performed that study . Mr. Henshaw no, im not. I would simply say it is always our number one option to resettle people back voluntarily back in the country from which they fled. Ms. Jayapal let me say and ill yield back time in, that the source was the center for immigration studies, an organization that the Southern Poverty Law Center has designated as a hate group and found that it disseminated White Nationalist content on over 2,000 occasions. Deeply disturbed that the administration would be using that as a source of anything in an official report. I yield back, mr. Chairman. I thank you for the additional time. Mr. Labrador the chair will yield time to the gentlelady from texas. Ms. Jackson lee i thank the gentleman. And i really do, as i look, these are Public Servants and i thank you for your service. I would argue that the service that each of your agencies are supposed to give really falls in the category of mercy and sympathy and empathy for conditions that refugees around the world are facing. Im not sure whether that is possible, having the kind of statements coming from the administration. And i frankly believe the American People should realize that when Public Servants appear before us, they are, unfortunately, the spokesperson of a cruel and ugly policy. As evidenced by the administration. So, having sat on the immigration subcommittee for many, many years, i can probably with great comfort say this is probably the worst time in American History as it relates to the rights of immigrants. With that said, id like to begin my line of questioning on a general statement, mr. Henshaw and mr. Lloyd. How do you treat muslim refugees . Mr. Henshaw we dont treat refugees any differently any way based on their religion. Ms. Jackson lee how is that possible when the administration has fought consistently for a muslim ban . Mr. Henshaw there is no muslim ban. We are simply reevaluating our Security System country by country. Ms. Jackson lee there is a muslim ban proposed by this administration, as evidenced by the stance that the attorney general has been taking in the courts, though theyve been defeated. So what youre saying to me is that you do not decipher and or reject a muslim refugee that may be in refugee camps in jordan and on the border of syria . Mr. Henshaw never, ever. Ms. Jackson lee mr. Lloyd . Mr. Lloyd once they enter into our care, all determinations about placement have already been made. This is the office of Refugee Resettlement where we administer benefits. We treat muslim refugees the same as we treat all other refugees. Ms. Jackson lee will you submit to this committee your statements in dealing with refugees who have come i know the process. The American People dont know the process. That is, of course, that refugees coming out of areas, are in a camp, i think you work with the United Nations, that is the process. Its a long period of vetting. And then these individuals come to the United States by way of your choice of them, out of those who are requiring or requesting the opportunity to come to the United States, is that not correct . Mr. Lloyd the initial determination and selection is made with p. R. M. In consultation with d. H. S. Ms. Jackson lee so provide me and this committee with that ms. Jackson lee so provide me and this committee with that whole process. That includes those individuals that may be coming from the areas of the muslim ban. Because they do exist. I would appreciate if you would do so. Otherwise the myth of taking in terrorists will continue to abound in this particular administration. I would like to pursue also the line of questioning dealing with your treatment of refugees, having just visited the border and seeing some of the detention centers. Although i appreciate the service again of the federal employees, it is not a pleasant sight. So in particular with mr. Lloyd, with ms. Jane doe again, did you have direct contact with jane doe or those advocating on her behalf . Mr. Lloyd i cannot comment on individual cases. Ms. Jackson lee would you im not sure why you would not indicate whether or not did you have contact with the lawyers . Did the agency have contact directly with the lawyers . Mr. Lloyd in any case where there are any lawyers involved, there are any lawyers involved, we would be in contact with the lawyers. So, yeah. Ms. Jackson lee do you have a set policy that you were pushing by way of the administration that opposes any young women who are falling under a particular statistic that says that 60 of those who are trying to flee oppression and persecution coming from the southern border are generally raped by those who are trafficking them or and therefore might be in need of medical help, are you familiar with that statistic . Mr. Lloyd im not familiar with that statistic. But ms. Jackson lee do you have any position on providing any sort of humane response to an individual that may have been raped and is pregnant and that falls upon the laws of the United States, which would allow an abortion . Mr. Lloyd we work in the best interests of all the u. A. C. s who come into our care and in the confines of the statutory requirements. Ms. Jackson lee so then they would be covered by the general laws about the ability to achieve an abortion based upon being raped . Mr. Lloyd that would fall under the tvpra which weve implemented with ms. Jackson lee is that a yes . They would have that right because of the laws that allow women to secure an abortion, because theyve been raped . Is that a yes . Mr. Lloyd with regard to the Sexual Assault ms. Jackson lee i would like an additional minute for him to answer the question. Mr. Labrador i would object. Youve gone over a minute already. Ms. Jackson lee would you finish the question, sir . Mr. Labrador you can answer the question. Mr. Lloyd ok. With regard to Sexual Assault, we follow the guidelines of the trafficking victims protection act, and have implemented that into our policy. Ms. Jackson lee in jane does case, you did not, however. Mr. Labrador the gentleladys time has expired. I gave you an additional minute. Ms. Jackson lee i appreciate it, mr. Chairman. But this is a serious issue. The treatment of refugees under this administration has diminished. It is frankly deteriorated. I want to apologize to those who are seeking refuge in this country under this administration. I yield back. Mr. Labrador thats why were trying to reduce the number of illegal people coming into the United States. Because many of them do get raped trying to cross the it is frankly deteriorated. Border. Thats what were trying to stop. Ms. Jackson lee i appreciate it, mr. Chairman. We should at least treat them with decency when they come. Mr. Labrador this concludes todays hearing. Thanks to all of our witnesses for attending. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. This hearing is adjourned. \[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] \[captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] shows,n the sunday talk we heard from lawmakers about the potential pathor