Change thee to treaty which germans viewed is unfair. They did not see themselves as solely responsible for the outbreak of the war. We look at protests in Madison Wisconsin against the vietnam war. We will hear from author David Maraniss as well as an antiwar activist from madison and the mayor of the states capital. Can you tell us what you are working on. David i just finished writing the last lines on a book on detroit. The name is going to be the communicators. Once in a great city why detroit mattered. Can you give us a background as to what the book is about . David first, i tell you a story about how the idea came to me. It was little unusual. It was in february of 2011. I was watching the super bowl. I was watching a commercial. I was not paying attention. Then i saw a sign that said detroit on a commercial. Fist. Saw the joe louis detroit. Ese icons of abandoned warehouses. Then a houses detroiter driving to the city and the voice talking about how this is not new york city or the windy city. Car andomes out of his there is a gospel choir rising in song. City. S is the motory this is what we do. David something about it made me choke up. My wife said, they are just selling cars and this is a commercial. I was born in detroit. I lived there until i was six. Im identified with washington and madison, wisconsin, but my place. S mike p 00 the collapse of detroit is very important. There are a lot of Economics Writers that can write that much better. What can i contribute . I want to do a book that captures detroit when it was and show america what detroit gave it. We think about what detroit committed contributed to america. It gives a deeper appreciation of what it has gone through. The shadows of collapse are through this book, even though it takes place 50 years ago. Can you talk a little bit about the collapse of detroit and how you chose those topics and take us through that a little bit . Was reporting this book, detroit was in the news almost every day. The bankers he was filed. And it has been struggling for many years the bankruptcy was filed. So that was the backdrop to my book, but it was not the book. But you could see 50 years ago a lot of the elements of what of the troubles that were to come. Alwaysnomy is then and too based on cars. The political leaders in 1963, the heart of the book, understood that they had to change that. They are trying to get defense technologies and adjusted not happen. The Auto Industry was leaving detroit. Which was a long, slow process. The detroit suffered from its its own success. It is this huge geographical. Ity, 25 miles across it was built on a prosperous whenmiddle class that industry left, you and the jobs were gone. I would drive through the area as a little boy. And three out of every eight houses leveled or burned or abandoned. So it has the difficulty of all of this lost land and property. How did it change . When did it start changing . David it changed over a very long period of time. I found a very interesting document as i was researching the book. The tendency is to say that detroit collapse is caused by a series of events, including the riots of 1967 and the flight that resulted from that. The rust belt infirmities that cities had like detroit. Its dependence entirely on automobiles. Civic corruption, which became and more factor reported on in the last 15 years. And hard labor contracts that burden the city. To some degree, those are true and false. Detroit was dying before that. This study in 1950 showed that 600,000had already lost thelation by 1963 from 1950s. And the trend was continuing. By the end of the 1960s, it was another 500,000 people. The predicted it all the way to where it is today. It was because of the larger forces. Civic corruption of the labor unions or any of that. Theas the disintegration of institutional model of detroit of these huge industries right, the factors being there. It was the trend away from cities in general torts suburbs. Saido these sociologists that detroit was going to be left they were not trying to say that in a pejorative way, but a sickly productive people were leaving nonproductive andle and staying nonproductive people had stay. All of those other things i mentioned did not help turn it around. How did you do the research for the book . David my first model is always go there. I did not move to detroit but i spent a lot of time there. Nine visits over the course of the period i was working on the book. Wonderful little bed and breakfast near the Detroit Institute of arts, two blocks from the library of labor and urban affairs, which had great archival material for me of w ther ruther, the head of united auto workers, and five miles away with dearborn with henry ford, and the grandson of the original founder is also a major character in the book. The mayor of cavanaugh a Young Kennedy acolyte right as kennedy was rising. His papers or at the library. The detroit public library, this grand old edifice is also a bloc k away. Not always open because of the financial struggles of detroit. And the institute of arts. So i can stay at the bedandbreakfast and walk everyplace i had to do my research unless i was driving for an interview. Motown itself was this bedandbreakfast was right off woodward avenue, the main quarter of detroit which separates east detroit from west detroit. Anybody i everybody identifies themselves as east detroit or west detroit. Go down a mile and there is motown. This row, series of houses that is now a museum. I did most of the research. Going there, interview, doing a lot of archival research. All my books i say they have four legs to a table. One leg is the observation of being there, understanding the cultural geography of a place. Archivald leg is the research, find a contemporaneous documents. The third leg is the interviews. And i found as many of the people that i could from that era. I had to travel other places as well. Barry gordy is in a mansion in bel air in los angeles. I went to see him and a lot of other people around the country. The fourth leg is looking for what is not there. There is always a conventional wisdom about something, trying to find other ways to explore the reality. Interesting interview that you had to you mentioned very gor barry gordy. What did you learn . Probably 80 83, four by now. He was 33 when the book is at its heart. In 1963. What i learned he is sort of essentially synonymous with motown. And he, it was his idea. The brought the artists in. I learned two important things about motown that gordy helped me shape but go beyond him. One is that he came from this incredible family with four older sisters who really do not get as much credit as they really deserve. Part of motown, and really were much more organized than barry was. He was the creative force. Givee book, i try to credit to his older sisters. And to his parents. Manys a family, like so africanamerican families, came up from the south to detroit. And they were part of sort of the booker t. Washington sensibility of selfhelp, formed a Grocery Store and all these other little enterprises. He came out of sort of that small entrepreneur ship concept. He started motown with 800 that came from the bear bear corporation. Berthaeniors part, and is his mother. The family had its own little farm. The whole family would gather around and vote on whether their siblings would get financial help. Barry got his first loan from his own family to start motown. The more important aspect of motown was why. Why did it happen in detroit . In ahe book explores that lot of detail, which i will not get into now, but the essences the geography made it possible, because there were singlefamily homes. Homes allthose throughout workingclass detroit. Great Public School teachers. In that era. Music teachers and in all schools. Almost every musician i interviewed talked about remembering their music teachers from elementary school, junior high and high school. Which i do not think you can find today, sadly. And then the migration from the south, bringing the oral tradition of singing to detroit. Great jazz that was sort of the root of what turned into motown. Most of the student musicians came out of that jazz movement. All of that combined in a sense of freedom, which happens in certain cities in certain times. It happened to detroit. Did you find a connection between motown and the Political Leadership of detroit . David i found motown connects everything. Motown, one of the criticisms wasotown and barry gordy that it was in the summer. He would take an unfinished product diane ro ss. Not diana ross, when she came to motown. And turn her into this incredible world known diva. Singer. She starts at age 17. Then Everybody Knows her. Then there is a certain style of music through motown. That come from . Because barryame gordy worked on an assembly line. Gave the speech, again, in washington. He recorded the second one and he recorded many other African American figures, so he had that sort of connection to trying to popularize in a way, the politics at the time. You mentioned some of the characters. Can you tell us a little bit about why you chose them and what you found . They emerged from my reporting. I didnt start by saying im going to write there are many, many characters in my book. I didnt start by saying these are the key people. These are the key ideas and how do i enrich those. And so, coming for the second, i chose, you know, you can write about it. Ford is always much more interesting. From the start of the original henry ford and his motions of the assembly line. He was a brilliant, hideous man. He had also contradicted. He also brought African Americans to detroit and he had shadows and light in his life and his grandson was sort of a larger than life figure. Very call very colorful. In my book, youll see at the end, theres a climax. The deuce was his nickname. He and he he was dealing with everything that was going on, at that time, political, economic, his relationship with walter was fascinating because his grandfather had tried to beat all of the unions and henry ford the second had to deal with the accommodations of that. He was one of the great under appreciated figures. A terrific mind, labor leader who, during this particular era, the uaw really helped had a key role in the whole civil rights movement. The summer of 63 was the summer when birmingham happened and Martin Luther king wrote his letter from jail. Many people supporting him were bailed out by the money. They came down there with all the money to get everybody out of jail. They were sponsors of the civil rights movement. Ahead of lbj and kennedy, pushing them harder. Not as hard as king. For a white labor leader, he was essentially, yet, think about what happened in michigan and detroit and all of the auto workers moving out of detroit and into the suburbs. So, it is so much to walter. Cavanaugh and the police chief were progressive liberals, trying to change it in detroit. They made a lot of dramatic changes. They were succeeded in some ways, against all the odds, but that success lead to four years later, a riot. And everything was up in smoke. All of the efforts were sort of decimated by that. Hes a tragic character. Another figure is Aretha Franklins father. He was an incredible speaker, preacher in detroit and he actually organized the rallies to detroit. Hes another one of the figures in the book. They all emerge from what i was the story i was trying to tell. If you could summarize the story you were trying to tell, what did you learn throughout . I learned how central detroit was to america in so many ways, helping create the middle class, helping bring this wonderful music, mustang is another part of the book. The mustang was being developed, which became the symbol of freedom and sexual freedom. It was all contrived, in a sense, to sell a car that way. But the mustang represented a lot of that. Detroit was at the center of things. Even though its in the midwest and its not new york or l. A. And it has so many flaws, it was really a very important part of all of, at least, several generations of how we come to think of ourselves in america. But, detroit, because has great promise. You go to detroit, today, if you were 25 years old and wanted to have freedom and do some thing, you can go to detroit, the propertys cheap. Theres more kids coming there. Theres a boom of artists and tech people and activists and its got, to some degree, that same sensibility of anything can happen that motown had. Parts of it might never come back because of the geography of it and the loss of the jobs. When it will be published . It will be published next september, 2015. And, simon has been the publisher has been the same ive had the same editor for all of my books and ive worked at the Washington Post for 38 years so im kind of loyal