Though the statute clearly said here is the deadline. There was this backdrop of not trusting the president and immigration was part of it. Part of the aca was part of that whole debate. Going into next year, look, we will not have a big bill. We will not have the senate will again. I look at it as a combination of an everify, Border Security and an ag fix it will be some mix like that. Youve got a train with little caboose on it. The train is moving along but it is split up into different parts. What will go on that versus one big bill like the senate bill was. Maybe its high scale Border Security and everify and some other mix of that. I dont think Border Security first will fly in the senate because the democrats will want more out of of order security there is the fear that once congress does Border Security its another 10 years before they will come back to revisit it. It is substance and policy but also politics. Is ted cruz going to be the next president or will hillary . Or is it rubio . George bush was unable to get a bill through, though we worked hard on it. It depends not just on the presidency. Mark we are not going to see anything until after the president ial election. I dont think there is any way around that. What should congress be doing . How should be approaching this issue . The 115th congress. I think thats right. It seems that the idea of a 2000 page monstrosity bill that gives every Interest Group something to be happy about doesnt work. It had failed in 2005 and 2006 and 2013 and its just bad lawmaking. Whatever you think about how health care should be done, a gigantic aca is not the way to have done it and likewise with immigration. It seems to me, people on all sides of the debate need to lower their gazes and look at more smaller digestible things to do. Something i have suggested that would give everybody something would be, for instance, mandatory everify but package it into a small package with, say, giving green cards to the beneficiaries. Upgrade their amnesty to a green card premium from the green card light they have now. That way both sides would get something and maybe there has been versions of this maybe throw in some tech stuff where foreign students who get phds in stem fields would get green cards if they wanted them. Something like that. That is a smaller, digestible package and various constituency groups would get something out of it and i think it would move the issue forward rather than the idea of always trying to hit home runs. I dont mean to give advice to the other panelists but youre not always going to get home runs. Try for singles. It seems that both sides can get something out of an attempt at hitting singles instead of trying to get everything you want all at once and rolling over the opposition. They failed over and over again. Ms. Kiefer i had a conversation with congressman gutierrez as things look bad for the democrats last year on Immigration Reform. He seemed pretty open and pretty flexible to the separate pieces he seemed pretty flexible and pretty open to the separate pieces idea depending on what the pieces were. He expressed a degree of flexibility and pointed to the vision within republicans as a problem. Maybe you would like to address that. Maria elena whether it is a comprehensive bill or a separate bill that amounts to a comprehensive solution, i think that is a tactical question. Thats probably what he was referring to. I want to go back to Something Else, francine. One of the things that amazes me about washington dc is facts dont matter. What the president has announced whether it was 2012 or the recent executive action are not amnesty. All they are is a deferral of deportation. Its a temporary reprieve from deportation and if they voluntarily come forward and go through a National Security background check and they pay 465, after an individual determination, if they are awarded deferred action, they are eligible for Work Authorization. That is based on the regulations from the 1980s. Thats not anything the president did new and that can be revoked at any moment. We have seen individual daca folks get that revoked and it does not give them additional amnesty benefits. There is no path to citizenship or permanent say. As a lawyer, i think facts matter a lot. They make a huge difference. As far as the way forward, one of the big challenges we have now is that a lot of the president ial candidates are talking about Border Security first. For the last couple of decades in the United States, we have had enforcement first as the only approach but we have not had legalization or the 11 million considered. Until the candidates address the issue about what will happen with the 11 million, will they try to deport all of them . Mitt romney said self deportation and that did not get him far. Any candidate who wants to fund their path to the white house has to address the issue of the 11 million. It will not happen. They will not get the lation vote or the api vote. Ms. Kiefer let me give laura a chance to jump in here. Laura i would echo some of that what maria elena said. The idea that enforcement only has benefits to the status quo and asked and thats not the solution american support. One of the reasons why people talk about these things having to be either sequenced or together is because the parts are interlocking. People want to know what would a future president do with the 11 Million People that are here. They also want to know how would people coming to the country prospectively and how we address this so we are not in the future looking at another Large Population of people without avisa and how do we fix that in the future . They want to know that the borders are being and forced but that is something we have been seeing for the last 20 years. Border enforcement and enforcement only policies are the status quote from they are they are not the solution that americans support. I would say that one of the things i think we need to ask is why deny the benefits we would have if we would get all of these pieces fixed . The moral imperative is clear but there is real economic benefits that would be spread throughout the economy if we were able to get these pieces addressed. Enforcement is going to be what continues. We are denying the country significant economic benefits. Mark i dont like to play word games about amnesty but i will say my piece the fact is, giving legal status of any kind to an illegal immigrant is what we call amnesty. La raza did focus groups for bush which was torpedoed by 9 11 and what they found was that people hated the word amnesty. Their memo was not to use the word. Come up with euphemisms. Path to legalization, normalization every week there was a new euphemism. I lost track of them, but the fact is, the 600,000 people that obama has given amnesty has work permits have work permits, Social Security numbers, drivers licenses, eligible for the earnings tax credit which is welfare through the irs that is amnesty and they will not have it taken away. The only people who have lost their amnesty are the ones who mistakenly got the threeyear renewal instead of the twoyear renewal. Those people are permanently amnestied in the real world. Even though, technically, its temporary. The idea that we have had enforcement first is not true. We have had some enforcement but mostly at the border. The elements that are essential and that broken control people have been advocating for decades are not in place. Mandatory everify these are control congress eight times in the past 20 years is mandated the development of an exit tracking to check out systems for foreign visitors per it eight times of has been mandated and it still does not exist. Amnesty people who are here or amnesty people who are here undertake programs without having a system in place already to make sure we dont have more illegal aliens in the future is surreal. This contention that we have done everything that can reasonably be expected with regard to enforcement and that anything else is special pleading or rationalization president obama made that point that his speech in el paso a few years ago. He was saying we built a wall, do they want moats . Do they want alligators in the moats . It was his jokey way of saying that continuing to insist on enforcement is an excuse for postponing amnesty. We do not have the elements in place that we have been demanding for decades. Until those things are in place and fully operational and proven and overcome the legal challenges, we should not even be talking about what to do about the Illegal Immigrants who are here. That is not even a legitimate topic for discussion until we fix the problem. Its like bailing out the boat before you fill the hole. First, you plug the hole and then you talk about bailing out the boat. Ms. Kiefer randy, yes . Randy the chamber has been accused of supporting the hated Senate Amnesty bill which it wasnt. We dont have to belabor it but amnesty in our view is forgiveness. If you look it up in a law dictionary. Its forgiveness of a wrong and no one is offered forgiveness. There is a stiff fine for that wrong of coming in. Its not for giving the wrong. Its what is the appropriate. Penalty . Many think people think deportation is appropriate. I would argue thats a penalty i would argue that the. Penalty does not fit the crime. Its not realistic because we will not deport them so lets come up with a fix instead of doing nothing. It seems a substantial civil fine and going through other steps before you get a series of probationary steps before you get a status to work and then a green card is appropriate. People will disagree with that. But i dont think most people call that amnesty. At least from the chamber positive point, its not amnesty. With regard to Border Security, it is more complicated than assets of the border and many maybe we do need those and more of them. The senate bill had lots of money in there. There is disagreement on how that money would be spent. It was a lot of money. All past Homeland Security secretaries have said physical Border Security is not enough. It should be combined for National Security purposes. Forget the humanistic argument here such as a controlled temporary worker programs, eliminate the job magnet which draws the Illegal Immigrants here and control temporary worker programs and health National Security and it helps Border Security. Everyone from napolitano to tom ridge to chertoff has said the same thing. You cannot ignore the economic realities. Not to help employ earners, but to would help the nations Border Security. On legalization, it is more difficult area. I dont talk about this at the thanksgiving table anymore. Everyone has strong views, depending where they live. That is the part of shrinking the haystack. There is some logic to providing the legalization process to those people who are here and finding out who they are and those we find out our criminals deport them. Its unfortunate but coming back to aca with the website, it fed into the argument that the administration cannot create a process to check on 11 Million People. They cant even put up a website on health care. That was another perfect storm hurt us last year. Among cantors defeat and the kids at the border issue, among several others. Part of the argument about why we need other parts of Immigration Reform other than more stuff of the border is not to help employers but it really helps National Security and helps Border Security. People who are not big defenders of the employers can say that. Ms. Kiefer not being a big word person, myself, i have appreciated the unpacking of the amnesty word in this discussion. I learned a few things. I want to come back to the way forward again. When you bring Immigration Reform and all its complexities and boil it down, it strikes me that there are two pieces the enforcement aspect and what to do about the undocumented aspect. There has been agreement in the Senate Bipartisan bill that did not go anywhere in the house. There has been agreement on how to handle this so congress is capable of doing this. Then it sort of broke down. One question i would like to ask each one of you is what needs to change in the dynamic in order for this to come back again and be dealt with in a bipartisan way . If you were to identify one thing you feel needs to change to get back on this road that we seemed to be on in 2013 when the Senate Passed this bill, what would that be . Maria elena one way to think about the path forward is to look at california as a blueprint. In 1994, governor wilson at the time had strong antiimmigrant rhetoric, just like we see today at the federal level, and was a supporter of prop 187, and antiimmigrant bill that became law and was struck down for being unconstitutional. Today, california is passing some of the most progressive and inclusive state policies because it understands the demographics require us to really take an approach to not try to exclude people who are part of the community but how do we improve conditions for everyone . In california, the Republican Party has not been able to gain back any positions of power because of that antiimmigrant rhetoric. We are seeing the exact same thing at the federal level. When, lets say if donald trump were to become president or if he were the nominee he would lose so badly. If the Republican Party continues to have an agenda that is antiimmigrant and antiblack and antiwomen and antiworker, they have no path to the white house. A major loss in 2016 which given the rate they are going now, they are picking every community to fight against and to offend. They will lose and they will lose so badly that i think the extreme right wing of the Republican Party will finally be silent and the establishment of the Republican Party will say we need to come up with solutions and Immigration Reform will be one of those. Ms. Kiefer what is the one thing that needs to change . Mark if there is a big loss in the part of the democrats, i will come back in 1. 5 years and we will see what that needs means. The one thing i think that needs to change is the sense that having a republican and democrat supporter of amnesty together make something bipartisan. The problem you see across the board in the politics in this issue is that this is not really a right left issue entirely. It is also an up down issue, an elite versus the public. That the dynamic here. You see it in congress where youve got guys who are almost like fish that dont understand they are wet. They dont they think that john mccain and ted kennedy got together on something so that must cover all the ideological basis. The fact is, they are the same guys. There is a very broad diversity of opinion among the public very different from the elite consensus. A key part of that consensus, that isnt shared by the public, is the third element. You are talking about enforcement and amnesty basically. There is a third part of the senate bill on a third part of the issue which is the level of Legal Immigration. The senate bill would have doubled Legal Immigration from the one million per year to 2 million per year. It would have almost doubled socalled temporary worker admissions which ends up being longterm anyway. If i pick one thing, its the issue of the legal numbers being sort of taken for granted as a kind of gimme to various constituent groups. We will get rid of this category but we will give you extra here. The way they deal with the issue with competing intrests in Legal Immigration is everybody gets more. Rethinking that and thinking about it in a different way Charles Kamasaki is with larasa and he talked about the issue and said maybe his side of the issue needs to rethink this and consider trading legal status for illegals in exchange for cutting future Legal Immigration. That is the kind of thing back that can completely reshuffle the deck on this and maybe yield political results. Ms. Kiefer laura, whats your thought about what could break this logjam in a new presidency and congress . Laura we will continue to see latino voters are paying attention to this issue and are hearing about it in the mainstream news as the debate is being covered. They hear about it on spanishlanguage news every night. Its such a personal issue for latino voters. They know someone who has gone through the immigrant experience and i know someone who was on documented. Who is undocumented. Thats what they want to see addressed. As the number of voters increase in the trap of latino voters continues to grow, i think thats what will make the difference. Ms. Kiefer you and maria elena say the election outcome will be a game changer. Maria elena they will determine the changes. Elected officials will have to realize that the country has changed and is changing. Ms. Kiefer randy, any thoughts about one thing that might need to change in your view to bring this issue home . Randy i have a little different perspective. I have seen enough internal republican and analysis on the latino vote, republicans could whether a storm and take the white house this time around even if their message was perceived as antilatino. Maybe the next election, not likely. There is the argument. The house still has to pass a bill and the senate has to pass a bill. You still have to deal with the house. As long as the speaker sticks h to the hastert rule, its a majority of the republicans. Given my visits on the hill, what i get back my staff, its not the amnesty issue compelling opposition to doing things so much as this pervasive view that immigrants are taking jobs away from americans that they here in town halls. We can give these guys economic studies that say the opposite and arguments but economists are like lawyers, no one believes them its hard to explain. I think weve got to do a better job of getting data out there and doing a better job of spreading the word that immigration is good for america and that is the message. There is a lot of data behind that that state and local cities acknowledge. They are reaching out to immigrants to come to cities tocause they see them as keys urban revitalization. That goes against people who say immigrants are on welfare rolls. We have to do a better message of getting the word out. I told the staff that we are going on the right wing talk radio shows to get the message out. When you talk about half the republican caucus, thats what i hear. I dont care whos in the white house, you still have to get the speaker behind it. You got to overcome that and i think thats what got to change. I think we have room for one more question among ourselves before we go to the q a and i ant to ask you about legal visas and r7b1 b hightech workers in the kind of thing you said the price is not being talked about very much. Can you elaborate on that . Im talking about overall numbers. The visas are a part of it and they are a temporary visas for technical workers. There almost all from industry and almost all work in the computer industry and are almost all white color. Its a contract worker program. They are indentured servants but there are all kinds of other things like Legal Immigration which is permanent which is running at one million per year. There seems to be an increasing consensus that our Legal Immigration flow is skewed toward relatives and needs to be skewed more to the individual skills of the immigrants. Marco rubio talks about that and bush talks about that but they are talking about it in the context of increasing immigration as opposed to what i think is clearly decreased immigration. The public approval for increases in immigration is mutual. The practices of planned parenthood are as popular as increasing immigration but every bill that comes forward that the establishment on both parties pushes, calls for increased immigration. That seems to be one of the key questions, not just enforcement, not just legalization for the Illegal Immigrants but what about tomorrow possibly legals. We need to be clear and you were reflecting this view is that the way you deal with ilLegal Immigration and pressures in the future is by letting in everybody wants to come here legally and that way there is no ilLegal Immigration. If everybody wants to come you let in, then who is going to sneak in . Maybe just a handful of bad guys. Thats an approach you can take which is plausible. Is that good for American Workers . S it good for American Workers and american taxpayers . Randy said cities are trying to entice more immigrants. It debunks the idea that theyre ll on welfare. Welfare and work go together. Almost everybody whether they are immigrant or whoever is on welfare has a job. What drives welfare rates is the level of education of the people who are coming in and therefore their incomes. We have an immigration system that lets them the low skilled workers and cannot earn a lot of money. If youre a high school dropout, you can work three jobs and still cannot support your family without the taxpayers giving you stuff. That is the question. Its not how do we keep foreigners off of welfare. Why are we importing more people . Inevitably, they will end up using taxpayerfunded government services. Thats something nobody wants to engage. I disagree with the characterization of the h1b program but with regard to low skilled workers, very few green cards go to workers at all, its only 6 . Its based on employment. Ut they all have jobs. We need to move into the audience participation part. I will call on you and if you can state your name and organization and wait for someone to bring you a microphone we will begin ight here with the laptop. Thanks very much, last summer, Congress Overwhelmingly reauthorized the workforce innovation and opportunity act. One in six workers in the u. S. Is an immigrant and most of them are not undocumented. How do we bring immigration into the conversation about what the skills of the American Workforce needs to look like and what mployers need . My question is first to randy and others on the panel. We have a whole center at the chamber for workforce preparation. Its trying to improve the influence on the local School System. Thats driven by states. There are department of labor and education programs. We support core standards. Weve got to do more to improve the job training and skills of American Workers. Anytime i have testified, we have always had that slice of the pie. We view immigration as filling some of the gaps in which American Workers are not feeling hose gaps. Are not filling those gaps in those areas. It depends geographically where the American Workers are meme not line up all the time with that particular job. Anytime you talk about immigration, youve got to talk about the other slice of the pie. Some people argue that immigration can lead to those American Workers who are at the bottom being ignored because immigrants have told the gap. That does not mean there could be a complementary activity of both angles. Politically speaking, they dont have to be ignored. We have workforce Human Capital problems in many of our society. There is no question about that. What high levels of immigration does is eliminate the incentive for american business, the most important and powerful lobbying element in our society, to exert the pressure on our institutions whether its schools are others to do something about these single capital deficits. Ts a sort of a shortcut to put it crudely lets take these American Kids are dont know how to work and dont drop on time and are chewing gum while they try to check out people of the store lets push them aside. They can get welfare and we can import better people from outside. Morally, its an abomination. Secondly, it it does not work in the long run. The children of immigrants are americans and theyve got all the same social problems that the rest of us do. And shove them asize import another group . Its not sustainable. Only by creating the conditions where we fix our own problems are we ever going to overcome some of these hurdles that really exists that employers have. Immigration is a kind of crutch that enables us to avoid grappling with these larger social problems. Thank you for the question. Frankly, we have major problems in the United States with unemployment and underemployment. There has been a disinvestment in poor communities especially ones of color. There is a need for investment in the School System and our Public Schools and make sure todays children are in stem classes. What are we doing to make sure we have a next generation that is prepared to take those classes . They are being fulfilled primarily with temper guest workers. The incentive that employers have now to recruit and hire undocumented workers often this is a small set of them especially in the low Wage Industries is to exploit a lot workers because they can get of those away with that because there are not strong labor Law Enforcement policies. If youre looking at enforcement as a solution, theres a way to get at that would labor Law Enforcement but not necessarily more border or interior enforcement. You were next. Then well come to you. On the aisle. You have mentioned the ethical concerns of family eparation. I am wondering if you are aware of what percentage of people who are in this country legally with an american citizen and child have legal barriers from their home country, bringing their children back with them rather than separating . If they should be deported and do you think its appropriate for a person who has been imported maybe because they have been they have finished a just sentence and have been deported and wouldnt be eligible for an amnesty because they usually are not saying that amnesty people with felony convictions would you say its upon them to bring back the child with them . Should they be leaving them . I dont know a percentage. 85 of immigrant families today re what we call mixed out of status families which means there is a u. S. Citizen and one on documented immigrant in the family unit. We are talking about large percentages of people. Many people who are deported take their children back to their home country. I dont know of their other legal barriers and other countries to do that for the mpact is that we have u. S. Citizen children who sometimes the father or mother might say they will stay of the United States with me because i want them to have a quality education. Or i want them to remain united with the rest of the family members and then it is the father or mother gets deported. Often an entire family gets uprooted and leaves. That is not the solution either. There seems to be a static number of 11 million undocumented immigrants. When you look at the statistics and bringing it back to Border Security, according to customs nd border protection, fiscal june 2015 from october 1 to 30, more than 99,000 other than mexicans, many of them from central america, have been apprehended in that time. That is a huge number and i wonder if you would comment on how that reflects on the Border Security issue. We have done some research on this. Many people on the skeptical side dont believe the 11 million to 12 million number. It is not really 11 million. Its between 11 million and 12 million. Its almost certainly 13 but its not 20 or 30. If it is, you would see it in the birth and death records. There is no question that it is Something Like 11 or 12, maybe even 13 million. There has been ongoing ilLegal Immigration to the United States. One estimate is since the obama inauguration, 2. 5 million of todays illegal aliens arrived since obama took office. What has happened is there has been outflow from the illegal population. Some people go home because of the bad economy. Some people have gotten amnesty basically so they are out of the of the illegal population. The illegal population is always churning. If obama is not enforcing the law, there would be 2000 less than there were. We are releasing a report tomorrow that looks at the recent numbers literally from this year and last year and it ooks like the trend is reversing in the number of Illegal Immigrants which is going back up. I dont really care what the numbers are because of 11 million is a big in a population of illegal aliens. Its a plausible number and not something people pulled out of the air. Its an educated guess but its a well educated guess. Playing around with 20 is missing the point. What do we do to make sure we dont have another 11 million illegal aliens . Hats the key issue. Until we address that, it doesnt matter whether its 11 or 12 or 13 million. What matters is how we stop the next 11 or 12 or 13 million . The flow has shifted so that mexicans are a smaller share of the overall of the new Illegal Immigrants and Central Americans and asians are a larger share. That is sort of the shift in dynamics. That happens all the time. Most of todays Illegal Immigrants, each year new ones settle in the United States, the ajority of them now are visa overstayers. Even among them, is the largest single country. But there is also much more diverse. What youre talking about is there is a different spread of ilLegal Immigration. If you go back to the debate again. Marco rubio brought up this point. I was wondering what difference that makes to the immigration debate overall. Talking about people from mexico or people from central america. I think it matters particularly from the per spebt objective evenive of what is a olution . People are not coming over as they have in the past. It is a consequence of our 1996 immigration laws. We have deported a larger number of individuals convicted of Gang Activity in the u. S. Were sent back to central america. The violence there has skyrocketed. Were now seeing people fleing that violence. We have people talk about comprehensive Immigration Reform. Frankly there is nothing comprehensive unless youre looking at farm policy and economic investments. Want to address future flows, we have to look at what is the kind of aid being invested in sending countries to try to diminish that. People dont want to migrate. People in other parts of the country, latin america, are on the movement there is a right to remain in your home country but people are being pushed out because of economic reasons. It would be 4,000 pages long instead of 2,000 pages long. Way in the back was a gentle man. I represented immigrant per ers who earn 1 to 5 hour and they are afraid to speak at for their rights because of the fear that that will lead to incarceration and deportation. It sounds from the panel that there is a consensus were not going to legalize or double migration or anything like that and we are not going to take a big, bold federal action through an act of congress in the next 12 months. If the question is, what can be done now . Its clear that what can be done now is protecting the civil and labor rights of legal and undocumented immigrants so that their standards of the workplace o up and so that the standards of American Workers who work alongside them. I would like to hear from the representative of the chamber and the intermittent time while you have a respite and not running up to congress to pass Immigration Reform or be against it. Whatever could we see some action from you to get your high road employers to come out in favor of basic Worker Protections for immigrant workers . That helps them and gets rid of the problem that it creates for them. I would love to hear specific policy initiatives now that can raise immigrant worker standards ike the power act. Mark, we talked during the hershey strikes in pennsylvania. And i am clear for what you are against. It is harder to tell what you are for. The one million guestworkers in the country, about one million work alongside 24 million u. S. Workers. The 11 million work along side 150 million u. S. Workers. What could you do to help immigrant worker standards rise so we are released from the race to the bottom . Love to hear thoughts from the panel. Lets start with randy. A longterm solution to i want to make sure there is the n late ining of conflating of the undocumented workers and it sounds to me that part of your work is representing people who are legally here in guestworker programs. The legal guestworkers on visas very often are told by their employers or just assume that upon termination, they will be deported. We have rescued workers from bus stops for they are being put forcibly on buses back to mexico. With regard to legalization, thats the issue because of if they are undocumented, they are going to be in the position to be deported. Employment laws apply to all these workers whether they are undocumented or not. I have had many arguments over his. Here was a case that came down that said you had the protections but you could not get your back pay. We supported reversing hoffman plastics as part of senate negotiations. We have always put into negotiations making a crystalclear what is already in existence that these people have these rights get private counsel, the same rights as American Workers. If they are not being paid the minimum wage, go to the department of labor. Tom perez who are going after my mine employers for more frivolous things where we have examples of independent contractors not paying the minimum wage. Go file a complaint. There are times when thats not easy to do. Thats true about our american jurisprudence generally. How hard is it to exercise your rights . One of the risks, anybody who goes through discrimination has to deal with that. If the laws apply, we have robust enforcement agencies. If you want to google Certain Companies under the jvisa program, they have had to pay huge fines because certain employees employers have had to pay. You can google this. The Washington Post runs these articles all the time. Also, if youre found to be in violation of the rules of these guestworker programs, you can be disbarred. There are examples if you look on the department of labor website, there have companies that have been debarred. There are bad actors in any kind of program and we are a big country, 185 million workers. People have to exercise their rights. As you know, there are mechanic niches to do that. As far as the undocumented, there is certain protections when you file a complaint from deportation while that is being processed. That was part of the senate egotiations as well. In this area, there is a lot that can be done administratively. It is fortunate that the administration is putting together a task force that includes a lot of parts of the administration that normally talk to each other. The department of labor folks and eeoc folks are talking in and there are things a they could be doing that dont require legislation. Having to go through. One of those things would be for workers to be able to come forward and apply for deferred action when they are in terrible cases like the ones you see. There are ways we hope recommendations will help them make their way to the administration can be enacted before the end of this administration. This is probably something that would be good to work on together. I think that high road employers are supportive of these things. Those employers that are violating the law are undermining employers that are playing by the rules. Along those lines, one of the parts of the executive action of the president included this interagency working group. While the daca is blocked in the courts, we would urge the administration that they do everything they can to use existing regulations for individuals for workers in a labor dispute or are being exploited to come forward and get deferred action and get Work Authorization and be able to pursue their legal claims. Legislatively, thats not an option now. You referred to the power act which is part of the senate bill would give people a uvisa. If they are a victim of labor violations on a civil rather than just crimes. I think we are out of time. I would suggest that maybe you and the questioner chat afterwards. Let me say one thing guestworker programs are inherently exploited. They cannot be fixed and should be abolished altogether. You can do all the enforcement you want but it doesnt matter. Some guest workers, from a study a few years ago, looked forward to becoming illegal aliens because they would be able to earn more and have more rights basically in the workforce. Than they did as guest workers. The solution is get rid of guestworker programs. They have the same rights as American Workers do under labor laws. We will wrap it up now. Thanks to the Bipartisan Policy Center for hosting this. Thanks everyone for coming. The live stream will be archived on the website if you want to revisit. Check out the website bipartisan policy. Org for all of the information and contacts. Thank you all for coming. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer cspan is in des moines for the iowa state fair, and road to the white house coverage. Is on cspan,age cspan radio, and cspan. Org is the candidates walk the fairgrounds and speak. Here is the schedule. This morning at 11 30, mike huckabee. Followed by jim webb at 2 00 and Martin Omalley at 5 00. And friday morning, jeb bush. At noon, rick santorum, a load 12 30 and chafee at senator Bernie Sanders at 3 00. On sunday, ben carson at 5 00 and george the at 5 30. Cspans 2016, taking you on the road to the white house. Announcer the reverend John Richard Bryant says the u. S. Has a love affair with guns and the issue of gun violence needs to be addressed immediately. Israel came as he spoke about race in america at the National Press club. At gunman killed nine people an ame church in charleston, s. C. In june. This is about one hour. It has been almost two months since the mass shooting in charleston, s. C. Nine worshipers including the pastor were killed during a weekly bible study inside the fiscalchurch a church. Shortly after the tragedy, the ship bryant combination to pray called the nation to pray. There was a vigil blocks away. Bryant and end invokes the africanamerican legacy of resilience. He said that the shooting suspect dylann roof had quote picked the wrong place and the wrong crowd. Bishop bryant then discussed the problem of gun violence. Saw ays that followed massive outpouring of sympathy and a Global Dialogue on forgiveness, faith, race, and guns. Since those early days after charleston, much has happened. The Confederate Flag was removed from the ground of the South Carolina state capital, and other bullet places. Public places. The nations continuing struggle with racial trouble has continued to play out in the streets of ferguson, missouri. There have been new instances in lafayette, louisiana and chattanooga, tennessee. Reports of gun violence continue daily in washington dc, chicago, and in other cities and towns across america. The reverend dr. Martin luther in this same spoke room, right about where i am , in the 1967said essay, he asked the question, where do we go from here chaos or community . Perhaps our guest today can try to answer. Please give a National Press club welcome to the senior bishop of the african methodist episcopal church, reverend John Richard Bryant. [applause] John Richard Bryant let me recognize my wife, my partner in marriage and ministry for 46 years. [applause] have the patriarch of our family here. Robinson who will turn 90 later this month. [applause] happy to have my sister here, cynthia bryant, god bless you. [applause] my son jamaal. [applause] michael. [applause] have a host of sons and daughters in the ministry here. They may have felt i would not get an amen, in this crowd, they came to give me back so they came to give me some backup. [laughter] let me share in the next 20 minutes or so what all of us experienced june 17, wednesday night in the ground floor of mother emmanuel african methodist episcopal church. The young stranger comes in that he is treated like a fellow pilgrim. He sits amongst the people who are studying the word of god and praying. A half hour later, gets up and with a loaded gun, he begins empty that gun to human flesh. Floors, walls, ceilings. Then reloads, empties it, then reloads, and empties it. Until nine people, none of whom whose name he probably knows, dead in a pool of their own blood. What a horrible night, what a horrible experience, but after it, believe it or not, some good stuff happened. It is almost like easter that comes after good friday. Some good stuff. A mayor of the Southern City comes and spends the night amongst the people. When i arrived the next day, this is how he was described to me by a layperson, he loves us. That is the mayor, he loves us. While reporters, tv anchors were searching for motives, he said clearly, this is a hate crime. Some good stuff happened. The governor showed up and both the governor and the mayor participated in what we as a church call the ministry of presence. When it is not so much what you say, it is what your presence communicates. So the governor of this Southern State comes and she stays and says, we will bring the perpetrators to justice. Some good stuff. The nation was able to get a closer view of a real church and a description of a real pastor. They were murdered while studying the word of god. Pastored by a man who loved jesus, loved his family, loved his flock, loved his community. He was on the floor because he was a state representative and an important vote was coming up. His seatmate said, you are going to stay with this boat this vote . He said, no, im going to a prayer meeting. I have been elected here but i have been selected there and i have made it there that my First Priority is the church, so he rushed to death. Mother emmanuel demonstrated the christian gospel better then any diligent in any seminary. Than any the knowledge and in any seminary. Love those who despite fully despitefully use you, and in the face of what real christianity looks like, it got the attention of the nation and so much of the world. Some good stuff happened. Mother emmanuel had security cameras, and on the security camera, a captured the image of this young man. Law enforcement was there and they announced they would use everything at their disposal to bring the perpetrator to justice and in quick order, he was arrested. Some good stuff happened. I have received communication from around the world and from around the country. A mosque in oakland sent 10,000. Our lifelong soulmates, the quaker church, who first befriended us when we started over 200 years ago sent word to me that we want to do something. We have a Retreat Center if there are those in the community who just need to get away or need to have someone to help them process, please, contact us. We would like to welcome those persons to the Retreat Center for your charge. Free of charge. The letters, the calls, and the various nominations denominations from other nations all wishing to share our grief. Some good things happened. In the city of charleston, s. C. , Services Held in the heart of the black community. White folks showed up and acted as if they were not afraid. Went to a restaurant and while eating, the patrons kept coming to the table to share the condolences. The owner said dont try to pay for this meal. We just feel so bad as the city that this has happened. They acted as if, to them, black lives matter. The governor of the Southern State said it is time for the flag to come down. When pastor pinckney was elected, such a young man elected, friends said to him, you will finally be able to bring that flag off of that tax paid land. And he said it will not happen in my lifetime. And he was right, but it happened. That is some good stuff, isnt it . But what is the bad stuff . The bad stuff, for me, is the guns. The love affair this nation has with the guns. It is like owning a pitbull that keeps biting people and to keep defending it because you love it. That gun, the violence in their homes, when homicide takes place in the home, present is the gun. Increasing suicide, the instrument of choice is the gun. Since 2010, over 8000 people have been shot mistakenly in our National Parks by the gun. Each time we make emotional adjustment to hold on to the gun, and of late, it seems as if we have fallen madly in love with the gun. Legislative houses all across the country are making new arrangements that the gun will be present in new places. The president of nra said that pinckneys death was his fault. That if he had had a gun, he nor his members would have died. The facts do not bear that out. We keep saying the gun will protect us and yet it seems to make us more violent. We sell more and we own more guns than any nation in the world and we are the most violent nation in the world. It seems to increase it. I said in South Carolina that in my city that look like we were going to win the stanley cup. We had to get the people together because if they win, they did not want them to tear the city up. When you win, emotions run high. So you put out of control emotions and liquor together, now add the guns is that insanity . Put it on your hip, you know . That is what we are returning to. Take it to school. Take it in a restaurant. Wear it on your hip. What is the fascination with this instrument that can do so much damage, so much harm . That is a bad thing. The gun hasnt moved an inch in the aftermath. It is free. In the aftermath, we are still stuck with racism. Racism in this country has been plaguing us from the beginning. I was telling some people, i have churches in india, and i was reading an article about india and in the next decade, they are supposed to surpass china in population but the scholars say they will not pass china because india has the cast e system which takes a large group of people out of the mix and china does a better job of integrating everybody. Racism, where large proportion of the population is sinking, and it is a challenge. It is a challenge to our political system. The 2012 election, the republicans said repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly that they were standing on the side of the 1 . The democrats said repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly we are for the middle class. Nobody spoke for the poor. [applause] and africanamericans had made progress in that more of us have risen to the middle class but the shame is that those at the bottom are increasing in great numbers and nothing is being done about it. I have watched the republican debates. Would you believe that they could spend that many hours and nobody deal with racism . That is eating away at the fiber of this country. Racism, the need to look down on something, to not see somebody, to not see, to not see. To become invisible in the culture, to not see. To not see that over half of africanamericans are not graduating from high school. To not see it. To not see that there is a different set of laws for blacks than there are for whites, to not see it. To not see it. An article written in the new York Magazine about one week ago, they were reporting on Research Just done that found that in the schools, white children who offended the rules were either given medication or sent to therapy, counseling. Blacks who offended the rules were expelled or to prison for the same infections for the same infractions. A psychologist reported in the same article that a study down that by study done by researchers that in the eyes of whites, black children look older and larger than their white counterparts. So that when i see listen the way a black as described who breaks the law. Never is the term used, child. It is delinquent or thug because in their eyes, he looks so menacing, he looks larger, he looks older than his white counterpart. The men who killed Michael Brown said he lived like a monster. And the grand jury agreed. Racism, it is a challenge to the church, it is a challenge to the black church because in the name of jesus of nazareth, our liberator and emancipated or, we cannot be silenced more otherworldly. [applause] and watch our people or fail to see our people are suffering. Part of my district is detroit with there is still amongst the black community 40 unemployment. And these unemployment rates so high. They act as if black lights dont matter. I resent it when i say black lives matter and people respond all lives matter. I aint talking about all lives. [laughter] [applause] it is clear in america that some lives do not matter. I am talking about bringing attention to the poor, the marginalized, the oppressed, who are still human beings, who still need to be rescued. Who still need the ministry of presence. It is a challenge to the white church. How are you able to sing hymns and not mention what is going on right around us week after week after week after week after week . It is a challenge to Law Enforcement. It is a problem when the majority of good police do not put the bad police in check. It is a challenge to Law Enforcement, prosecutors, when they see our black differently than they see a white. It is a challenge to the prison industry which has been called the new jim crow. I think my 20 minutes are about up. [laughter] i am not finished but i will stop. [laughter] and receive what questions you might have. [applause] lets start with a question about the gun, which you talked about. Gun control, gun legislation. It seems like in the aftermath of the shooting, there was no budging. How optimistic are you of any kind of regulation forthcoming, and will it happen at the state level or the federal level . Will Congress Take any action . What is your outlook of the gun policy front . Mr. Bryant not in my lifetime. Thank god for gods time. Amen. Mr. Bryant my prayer is the people will get enough. I do not see the change coming from a legislators. But when we get enough of the violence, it is so alarming to look at statistics and homicide rates globally in the developed world as compared to the u. S. 10, 20 times greater here. I read an article not long ago about the murders and the shootings by police of citizens. They were like in a certain country, that year, 3, 4, in our country, 370 something. When we get enough, and when good people stop remaining silent all right. Mr. Bryant i am hopeful that then the change will calm. Come. Mr. Hughes in the last two months, the ame church has experienced two strategies that directly reflect the state of Race Relations in of after americans in the United States. In the short time, the ame church found itself in the religious spotlight usually consumed by black megachurches or what is the church doing with this opportunity to help civil rights movements like black lives matter and what are the local church is doing . Mr. Bryant glad you asked. [laughter] a lot of our churches are megachurches. A lot of our churches have been on the firing line continuously. Without publication. I am now a bona fide senior citizen. [laughter] back in the 1970s, you would call the News Conference and news would show up. Today, you can call the News Conference and nobody comes. So what happenned in charleston, emanuel has been that doing ministry for 200 years. Talked to a brother here who said he was at bible study in emmanuel last wednesday. It was packed. Most of the people were white. They did not know it was there. I responded to a letter that said all of this marching and protesting does not mean anything, you all have not done anything. Ive wrote them back. Some, i write back. I said, never confuse the presence of the camera as the presence of our activity. The cameras left charleston and are now following trump. [laughter] [applause] but last week, i had a tour. My son has opened up a center, a school, feeding 500 young people. They are in baltimore. [applause] i was able to walk around and see young people in large numbers, so quiet and orderly, behind new computers. With satellites hanging from the ceiling, learning about saving and investing from those who were experts. Being exposed to the arts. I wrote back to the person, just because you have not seen it on tv, doesnt mean it is a nonreality. It is real. I walked through it. Just the cameras have gone. And other things have taken place in baltimore but we do not have a mechanism to share it. So we are the church. It means we can never do enough. Whatever we do, its not nearly enough. But so much is going on to continue to make a difference. Then we have to learn to share through this medium, twitter, facebook, those are our new reporters. When the reporters going to come, we can reported ourselves. A lot is going on and a lot more needs to go home. Mr. Hughes are the destructive disruptive tactics of the black lives Matter Movement that we have seen lately at campaign events, does that just is that justified or distracting . Is it as disorganized as the occupy movement . Do we need a clear goal like what we saw 50 years ago in alabama . Mr. Bryant i once pastored in new england and it was a firstgeneration who basically came from the Anglican Church and now they were in the ame church, trying to get used to our noise. [laughter] they brought it up in a board meeting, they do not know how to have church. You are preaching and their whistling. They shouting right on. That is not church talk. They should say amen, hallelujah, thank you, jesus. [laughter] i said to the brother, i said, now, suppose i got up from my seat and came where you are and hit you in the head with a hammer. Would it be proper for me to tell you how to say ouch . [laughter] [applause] what ought to be scary to us that is what i tried to say this morning. There is a large group of people who are suffering. One in four in the criminal justice system. Unemployed,umbers cannot find a job here to add insult to injury, those who had jobs and are still poor, because the jobs pace a little, this is the crowd that has erected. Erupted. Sanitize them. Really we need to try to run in front of it and gives it shape, that we think we could take that movement further down the road. Right now, we are playing catch up. What they have said to us is we have heard what you have said and we have tried it. When we can see people going down and catch it on film, in living color you see it. And then to have that dismissed. We are still angry. The way we responded years ago when we were taken through workshops, we have got to catch up to that. Right now across the country, there is a deep feeling of frustration for people who feel that in this culture and in the society, there lives do not matter. They are saying, hey look at me. Im a man, im a woman. I have needs like you do. And we have got to run behind them, cleaned it up, calm them down. But it is the response of the human soul that has been ignored. Pent up and ignored. Mr. Hughes mentioned racism and i got questions about racism. While the Confederate Flag in the rebel flag no longer flies in capitol grounds, what needs to be done to change the racist conditions that created an unapologetic killer like mr. Roof . Another questioner along similar lines says it is very good to take down a symbol of racism such as the Confederate Flag at the statehouse. How do you take down the racism in peoples hearts and minds . Mr. Bryant brothers and sisters of goodwill. Whites where we need our brothers and sisters of goodwill. A lot of a lot has been said. In our absence that can be corrected. I live in chicago when i was at a demonstration, and it was about 5050 black and white. The white kids starting shouting at the police. Telling the police what they will do and telling the police where they can go. I never turned around. I kept [laughter] i kept my face front because they will not get killed. Another brave young man i saw on the news who saw the police with his foot on the neck and brutalizing an individual, he could not take it and he tackled the police are the miracle, he did not die. The miracle was that he did not die. He tackled the police and he did not die. So i am praying that as brothers and sisters of goodwill, see what is going on and speak out. And vote out. And stand up. It will help us. The kind of racism im talking about cannot be legislated. It is a matter of the heart. The kind of deposits made in that young manlife, that birth that level of hatred. That is deep. We have our work to do. Im talking about the africanamerican community. If you are treated like you are nothing long enough, you act like nothing. In like manner, we have got to take care of that. We have got to do that job into the hearts and spirits of our people. Selfworth. Even when everything around you tells you you are no good and you have no destiny. It is up to us to give them another message. On september 2, back to your situation, we will be back in this facility. News conference, ame church, the cme church, and ame zion church. On that date, we are going to roll out an agenda of what we need to do to make these United States more humane and more united. And so, youre all invited back at 10 00 in the morning on september 2 for the National Press club. Mr. Hughes this questioner asks, on the scale of one to 10, how much progress have we made to realize dr. Martin luther kings dream . Mr. Bryant if you had asked me that six or seven years ago, i would have had a different answer. Our greatest blessing has turned out to be at the same time our greatest pain. The election of Barack Hussein obama has unearthed a fear hey mr. Bryant and that is what has triumphed so much right now. They fear in this country. Do not take it lightly when there are those who cry. We want our country back. Initially, i said, who has your country . [laughter] until we understood this is no longer a country of white, male privilege. This is a stew. Nothing has melting in this melting pot. It is a stew. We are allle sayihnng the same. No, i am different. Love me anyway. Know where the carrots are. When you eat it all, it is good. Blend. Nt have to [laughter] mr. Hughes this year, gay marriage has become legal across the United States. Two were married in United Methodist church. Where does ame church stand on gay marriage . Can gay people get married in the ame church . If it does not accept it now, do you see that changing . Mr. Bryant the american atmosphere has been filled with gay rights. All the programming. All the tv shows. All the movies. School curriculums. Legislation on gay. But nothing on race. [applause] you have given us this small window to talk about race and guns. I think i want to keep my hour to talk about what america refuses to talk about. [applause] mr. Hughes some of our nations Public Places such as government and schools have found the need to secure this place with armed security. How can black churches better protect their congregations from hate crimes in a hostile south . Mr. Bryant north, east, south, and west. [laughter] [applause] that is a serious question. I do not want to see churches armed. Amen. Dont want to play into that. And so there is no move afoot to arm the church. We have to trust god. It is a violent culture. What happened in South Carolina can happen to anyone in our churches, mosques, or synagogues. I would hate the church would follow suit on culture. And everyone armed to the teeth. What it has demonstrated is that it really does not work. We are armed to the teeth. And we are killing each other. Left and right. I would hope the church would be a Violence Free zone. If others come in with Something Else on their mind, we will not take their approach or their response. We will continue to trust god. Mr. Hughes before i ask the last question, i have some housekeeping. The National Press club is the worlds leading professional organization for journalists and we fight for a free press worldwide. For more information on the club, visit our website and to donate to our nonprofit journalism institute, visit press. Org institute. Next tuesday, the new orleans mayor will address the club head of the 10th of the anniversary of hurricance katrina. On september 2, South Carolina governor nikki haley will speak at a National Press cup press club luncheon. And the press club will host its annual 5k for scholarships, journalism training, and press freedom. I would now like to present our guest with a National Press club mug. [laughter] [applause] i would now like to ask the last question and, believe it or not, somebody managed to get us a donald trump question. [laughter] if donald trump comes to you seeking pastoral guidance [laughter] what would you tell him . [laughter] mr. Bryant you must be born again. [laughter] [applause] mr. Hughes a followup question. What would dr. Martin luther king advise trump to do . Mr. Bryant i have absolutely no idea. [laughter] i have heard people ask king questions. What would be in his heart and his mind, very seriously, and i know we left we laughed. But when you listen to the candidate, and you listen to what he is running on, it is money. And i really do believe that what we need in leadership are those who think deeper than the material. And that is why when i talk about the people in South Carolina saying this mayor loves us, and we need in this country leadership that sees us, that our burden is their burden, that there are no easy fixes, but counsel, prayer, collaboration, needs to take place. Anybody who says, i am worth so much, so i can be your leader, no. You must be born again. Of the spirit and of the soul, to be the father of the nation or a mother of a nation. [applause] mr. Hughes how about a round of applause for our speaker . [applause] [applause] i would also like to thank National Press club staff organizing todays event. If you would like to wear more about the club, go to our website. Thank you for we are adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] on the next washington erman discusses his new book on Voting Rights in america. Powershat, kierstin talks about her new book, the the left, about how is killing free speech on a variety of issues. Plus, your phone calls, comments, and tweets. Live at 7 00 a. M. On cspan. Cspans congressional freshmen profile series continues with republican congressman ralph abraham. He is a practicing physician, has a veterinarian degree, is an id pilot. T av we spoke with him in his Congressional Office for almost 20 minutes. Bill congressman ralph abraham, you are batting 1000 when it comes to elections. This is your first look office, correct . Rep. Abraham its my first one and i run it and i won it. Bill what you run . Rep. Abraham i am a grandfather. I was looking at the country and the direction it was going in. I want a different country and that is why ran. We need to leave a better came up with. E that is why we ran. Bill was it hard to get the family on board . Rep. Abraham i have a very supportive family. Diane is my wife and she supported me and what i do in life. She has been the wind beneath my wings. My three older children when i told them i was considering running, their first words were do it. Bill how old are you kids . Rep. Abraham 32, 33, 34. In that area. We had them stretched out and it was a wonderful period growing up with them. Bill you represent the fifth district, the largest district in louisiana . Rep. Abraham the largest landmass. 24 parishes. It goes from the top of the state to baton rouge all the way over to appaloosa. Bill is a parish a township like a county . Rep. Abraham it is a county. It is the same. Because of our french heritage, we spent the we stick with the name of a parish. Bill what is it in terms of businesses and terms of occupations . Rep. Abraham we are one of the biggest crop locations met anywhere else in the nation. We grow more coin, soybeans corn, soybeans than anywhere else in the nation. Good country people, conservative, down to earth, godfearing, so to speak. The biggest town is monro, louisiana. The secondbiggest is alexandria. Compared to other large towns across the country, comparatively speaking, it would be a very small town. We are rural. We are good hardworking people. Bill you said you were running because youre concerned about what the country was headed. What are some the top concerns of your district . Rep. Abraham principles. Getting away from our constitution principles. Our Founding Fathers were men of genius. If you look at our constitution, and i try to read it once every quarter, every six months, look at the declaration of independence. One, it is based on christian values, it is based on very conservative values. The most important thing is based on his small government and we have gotten away from that. And this goes back decades. It starts back in the 1920s and 1930s in the 19th century or the 20th century. The government has outgrown the people. It is no longer a country by and for the people, now we are country for a lot of people. If you get a bureaucracy as big as we have now, it has to feed itself. When it does that, it stops feeding the people. Thats what concerns me. We are now a bureaucracy or a government that is no longer looking out for its people. If looking out for itself. Bill you bring a background, by most peoples measure, it would be considerable over the course of a lifetime. You have been a veterinarian. You are practicing physician. You have been in the Army Reserves and the Mississippi National guard. You are a pilot. When you came to congress, you mustve had a fairly wide selection of committees to serve on with that sort of expertise. Rep. Abraham the thing that we asked for one we got elected was veterans because they are near and dear to our hearts. Our heroes need to be protected and taken care of. They have taken care of us. The least we can do is repay them. Agriculture for the aformentioned reason, we are in agricultural district and i needed to represent my farmers , ranchers, forresters very well. I was fortunate enough to be asked to be on the technology committee. That is a fun committee. We discussed things that are new, innovational, on the horizon so to speak and we discussed important roles like epa, things like climate change. It is a mixed bag of things in the Science Committee whereas the v. A. And agriculture are more specific. I enjoy them all and they are all good committees. Bill three committee assignments, floor work, constituent work. How do you keep it all organized . Rep. Abraham luckily, we have a very young and aggressive staff that keeps me in line. When i come to work every morning, we generally have a quick meeting of what todays activities are going to be and what the weeks activities are going to be. They get me lined up so to speak. Im very fortunate to have good people surrounding me. Bill we are having our conversation as Congress Gets ready heading into the august recess. What have you learned about washington as a governing area and congress that is different than what you expected when you got elected . Rep. Abraham as a physician and as a businessman, im used to things happening a little bit more quickly, a little bit more efficiently, so it is a process that you have to adapt to. Im used to giving orders as a physician and they carry it out that day or certainly maybe that minute or hour. It is certainly not like that up here. We have to be part of a system that is a little slow moving and work within the system to get things done. You have to learn the ropes so to speak, but ive learned quickly i hope and ive gotten some good things done. Bill in terms of taking those orders, how is your relationship with gop leaders in the house . Rep. Abraham i think we have good leadership from boehner all the way down to scalise. In louisiana, we are lucky to have Steve Scalise as majority whip. He brings not only character and clarity to the situation and brings power. In our louisiana delegation, if we have an issue that we want pushed to the front burner, where do we go . We go to scalise. Bill you talked about your background, but what in your background best qualified you for being a member of congress . Rep. Abraham probably the veterinary and the physician role. It does take some study to get to those particular places in life. Being up here and show up. And i go home and tonight, im usually reading material from the Previous Committee hearings for the rest of the week. My staff has given me tasks to do that also bolster my hopefully Knowledge Base for whatever comes down the pipe. It takes a lot of afterhours work to stay ahead of the game and you have got to stay ahead of the game here. Bill some of the numbers ive talked to speaking about the figures of afterhours work, and they number of them are staying in her office. Theyre living accommodations are in their office. Are you a member of the club . Rep. Abraham i was. I refuse to pay exorbitant rent fees. Im pretty t w