Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

You to protest properly. [applause] max we are going to turn to the other folks here in a couple of minutes. Struck by, in the aftermath of the rights of the 1960s, you do get groups who try to take on the police more directly directly, like the panthers. In our day and age, we have black lives matter, which is a different kind of formation. Robin we have cop watch. We have Police Monitoring all the time. But they dont get attention. Harold there is physical documentation of police abuse. It happens again somewhere else and we see it again. It creates to make, without inflictedlly changing on innercity residents it changes the atmosphere somehow. Hawley there is a big blackence between the lives movement and the brothers and sisters and black berets and leather jackets. Our notion of the power dynamic is for me to get power i must take it from you. That evoke sphere in the masses. Max one issue we just test upon is economic power. We talk about the police. We talk about black lives matter, but we dont get down to the economics of it. Became ain luther king much more radical person when he know,d demanding, you making demands on the government to be more responsive and really talking about socialistic things, like income redistribution. That is when we hit the third rail. People can come on board with, well, police should do this and so on. But when it comes to really making the structural changes, those are far more different. Harold the economy has gotten so bad for so many people. Progress are saying through things like the five or 15, more than a lot of us would ed, more thant anyone would have predicted a couple of years ago. Have questions from all of you. Please say your first and last name before a question. This is being recorded both by alo. And this will be nationally rebroadcast. Cspan. Keep an i afford. Thank you for taking us through these thorny issue so well. About the mindset of the rioters versus the rebels. Kelly, and for professor have there been any studies done on the mindset of the rebels . Is there a difference between the expectation levels that one group has versus the other . Max there were studies done that wanted to show that there. S a typical rider but it was not who you would have expected. These are folks who are actually striving in and would seem upwardly mobile. Pasthere in the opportunity were blocked. That was part of the mindset. That is part of the anger, part of the frustration. Particularly in the 1960s. People were moving forward and yet the progress was interrupted. I dont see that sense of hope are now among young people in particular. I see fatalism. Robin there is a whole Cottage Industry that made money on surveying the writers the rioters. There is the question of who is being arrested. There are people who are arrested that end up being part of the survey data. But then, serious sociologists would say we cannot understand your surveys what people have experienced their whole life and what they experienced in the moment of the actions because it is transformative. What isto ask ourselves the mindset of those people who are committed to social movements and social are innovations who try to make these kinds of changes that is sort of critical. Many of the people who are involved in special movements are not the same people who are engaged in these kinds of actions. We have to be careful not to romanticize the actions and also not to make every person who makecipates a radical, nor every person a nihilist. Many tons, a whole range of circumstances produce those kinds of actions. Many times, a whole range of circumstances produce those kinds of actions. What path prepared the way for this to mulch was explosion. Not that something happens and people begin to organize. It is something happening before that. Holly i was in Northern California watching newscasters southcentral, la cienega as southcentral. The comment you made about me, which i am flattered by, we talk about some of the activities in riots and rebellions. The image that i will never taking caseseople of diapers and formula out of fed code out of fedco. There were people taking televisions. But the diapers and the formula spoke volumes to me about a community need. Next question on your left. Good evening. In guerrero, they have community policing. They have no cops. The way they punish people is by then doing labor. They have to help out the community. I believe in that. Policia talk about comunidad. My question is do riots create change i . Really believe so. But it we talk about the economic issue. Every time we talk about economics, the police come in and try to repress that. Slash theu try to economic formula to the social people onyou keep the the brakes of going up. We see the black panthers, we saw the f the i come in yo. Address the root cause of issues. I am a homeless activist. It is a shame that the city of l. A. Continues to ignore people on the streets. Years from now, all those glass houses will be abandoned buildings. Lets. About it. Harold any chance of getting serious Affordable Housing in los angeles where is that going to come from . Holly my utopia is to always view questions like that from the perspective of is it important enough to us, the collective, to make it happen. Is reactionary. I am a public servant. You elect me. When will it be important enough for the collective us to pay for it. Bond or and there is a a Ballot Initiative to increase taxes, we will individually and collectively make it happen for community. Officials respond to the pressures put on us by the public. You empower me with that. It is the collective us. I am you, we are one. Robin the public do not organize like workers. That is that is part of the problem. Holly and i just cant engage with you in the election cycle. We have to have an ongoing conversation. And we have to have a conversation with you that many in my position dont about how much this cost. Where should we take the money from . Here is the pie. Corrections. Many say take it from corrections. You made a decision that has created this series of unintended consequences. We have to have a collective conversation about what we are willing to pay for, what we are willing to include in the public discourse, and what you will demand of your governor. Next question on your right. Ofwe have seen a fair amount criminalization, Recording Police with your cell phone, and whistleblowing. What does it take in the chambers of power to take people outwant to get the truth from being arrested, thrown in jail, without due process, without violating their free rights of speech, the first amendment, freedom of the press . That is a great question. There is a package of legislation. I urge you to call your elected officials to find out what they are doing. I have a bill. Lynch and was on the books as a crime in the state of california the 1930s. Thate a particular view of word and an image of what a lynch mob looks like. Have taken that word out of the penal code in the state of california to but there california. But there is a package of bills that look at all of those aspects. We have a diverse legislature. The otherlleagues on set of the aisle who sometimes have a different view of the world than i do. So there is a package of legislation. This is probably one of the most popular is the wrong word but it is one of the areas of law that has been focused on the most in this legislative session. Some bills have got through and some have not heard i cannot begin to tell you the entire package, but there are quite a max surveillance, it is a doubleedged sword having everything recorded. Privacy issonal being intruded upon in pursuit of peoples allusion perhaps of safety. So that is another negative outcome of these events. There is new architecture developed with ideas of Public Safety in mind that began to look more like focus like , like the Renaissance Center in detroit and the gateway complex in newark. But there has been h amend this increase in surveillance by the state of citizens. In some ways have assented to that because they believe they are safer as a result. I think it is an illusion more than reality. To lose thent want main point, attacking whistleblowers, for basically trying to do the work of social justice. Is a federalit issue. We are dealing with a president , no matter how much you love president obama, but oversaw the rapid increase in the year arrest and prosecution of whistleblowers. Im from inglewood. I am a native. I grew up remembering the watts riots. I was small. I graduated from ucla in 1992. Going back to economics, the truly disadvantaged, i still live in inglewood and im hopeful, but i feel there is a long way to go. I see some things that have changed. Locke down as it was with the residential segregation. But that now is economically driven instead of being driven by code. As it was in the past. Can you speak to that . Holly i agree with that. I represent a piece of inglewood. The inglewood Public Schools are suffering deeply right now. They have been taken over by the state superintendent of public instruction. We have Leadership Transitions over and over. You have a mayor who is really committed to economic stability. So i agree with you. While we dont have the housing zoning codes that prohibit us living together, there are class issues. So figuring out how to increase and you know, if you are in a family, the first thing you look at are the schools in the district. Am i going to buy in this home and use my life earnings and what is the quality of education for my children . Inglewood struggled with that. Just a few miles down the road is culver city with a very Thriving School district with amazing Public Schools. Like mayor betz, like my colleague in the senate, i hope there will be significant progress, but it is incremental. He is looking to the state for additional support. And we are looking over our shoulders also. Herald it was believed that the decline of family life was lehman. Was the state of unemployment. The disintegration of the two parent family, etc. , has spread to the White Working Class and is person and is evasive now there as well. Announcer we are going to hear from epa administrator gina mccarthy. Theis going to telco about u. S. She is going to talk about the u. S. Standard of Carbon Pollution plants. A few quick words. Are an organization based on highquality research with the active of focusing that on energy and Natural Resources and environmental policy and as many of you know, we are not an efficacy organization. We are also not cheerleaders for any particular policy or point of view. Provide really is to the best Scholarly Research to the policy community so it can develop the most efficient, efficacious, affordable and best Public Policy as possible. We have been doing that for a little more than 60 years now. So we have a little history. With respect to Climate Change, we have quite a long history with Climate Change. For the last two decades or a little bit longer than that, at the federal level, we have investigated every possible for atory program Greenhouse Gas emissions. At the state level, where a lot of the book of our work has been undertaken, we have played major roles. We spent a lot of time with california. We work at the state levels are nationally, we have been heavily involved with the European Union as they develop their cap and trade program. Currently involved in china with the regional cap and trade programs. Mexicoare working with as they undertake their major energy reforms, putting in place substantial and innovative policies in mexico. Importantly, for the last four years, maybe longer than that, greenhousen studying gas regulation under the Clean Air Act. One of the things that at least i draw a conclusion from that and most of the staff that works on the Clean Air Act is that the Clean Power Plan in its current the mostikely Significant Development in u. S. History with respect to Climate Change. I dont think any of us believe otherwise. It is a tremendously substantial rule and one that will have significant impact. As an economist, as many of us are, we kind of take some pleasure in the fact that there is like stability built into the rule. As we reread the rule, we find it based on economic principles. We see those as beneficial aspects of the rule. But we are getting to the point it took a lot of hard work by many people inside and outside of government. And it took an awful lot of leadership. Gina mccarthy was ready and willing to take that leadership role. And for that, we are most thankful. Inclination toal reach out across party and ideological lines. That is not all that common today. The final process of rule, many of you participated in conversations with the administrator. You know she was try to get the most effective, efficient rule possible and a rule that would be longlasting. I introduce the administrator, lets talk about the flow of the event today. The administrator is going to take the podium and speak and then she and our lead expert on the Clean Air Act will take the stage and engage in a bit of q a. You have on your seats a card. If you would like to pose a question, please write it as clearly as you can and legibly so our folks can read that. Issoon as the administrator done speaking, we will collect the cards and they will be passed on to dallas. For those who are viewing this online or some other medium and have access to twitter, you can send a tweet to us in terms of a question. Askrff. Tois my great honor introduce the administrator of the Environmental Protection agency. The greatest trait of a true manager is simply getting the job done. I think i speak for all of us in this room and many of the folks outside who are watching, thank you for getting the job done, for doing it exceedingly well here it and shepherding the Clean Power Plan through all of these hurdles that were necessary to bring it to a final rule today. And i say thank you for doing it in an environment where the politics and the rhetoric really make this job as difficult as possible. Gentlemen, epa administrator party. [applause] admin. Mccarthy thank you. My dad used to say that half the battle is just showing up. Her workure that washington. But delivering is quite as important as well. About we begin talking the Clean Power Plan, i wanted to indulge you all a little bit and take a few minutes to talk about the mining waste in colorado, which is a important issue. The release of mining waste in colorado is impacting not just the state of colorado, but it mexico,pact new arizona, the Navajo Nation as well. It is a tragic and unfortunate incident. Epa is taking responsibility to ensure that spill is cleaned up. The most important effort is the health and safety of the residentsand the and the visitors in that area as well. We know how important it is to them. As you may know, there are thousands of abandoned mines throughout the west to epa routinely works with states to clean up these spills. The spill occurred when one of our contract teams was using equipmentn heavy to enter the mind just north of the city of durango. In the process of treating the water inside. In response to the unfortunate incident, we have used the full ref and depth of death full breadth and depth of the agency. It takes time to review and analyze data. I understand peoples frustration, but we have our researchers and our scientists working around the clock. Our commitment is to get this right and make sure we are protecting Public Health. Nonkfully, there have been reported cases of anyones health being compromised. Seeingnally, we are elevated levels. As it moves on, we are seeing a downward trajectory towards preevent conditions. Takea has taken states to control of discharge at the mine itself so we are addressing any downward impacts. And we are diverting water and treating it to lower the acidity level and to remove the dissolved metals. The commandd up control center. We are working with local officials. Epa is providing additional water supplies. We have been in touch with state leadership as well as congressional delegations and we have kept the white house fully informed. Epa is an agency whose core mission is to ensure a clean it environment and to protect Public Health. So it pains me to no end to see this is happening. But we are working tirelessly to respond and we are committed to full review of exactly what happened to ensure that it can never happen again. With that, i would like to move on to the Clean Power Plan. It has been an interesting summer, everyone, hasnt not . Did anyone experience summer . I missed it here[laughter] but it is seriously great to be here to talk to you. We have made some incredible progress together. Thank you for a technology that this is a big lift and i want to commend everybody at epa who fallinguntless hours over this power plan and the many comments we received that significantly influenced this outcome. Acknowledge, and i think we do here, that the effort was worth the left. Climate change is one offace. It is a global challenge. In many ways it is very personal to all of us because it affects everything and everyone we know and love. It affects our kids, our communities, even our ability to earn a decent living. By now we know that Climate Change is driven in large part by Carbon Pollution and it leads to more extreme heat, cold, storms, fires and floods. For farmers strained by the drought, for families with homes in the path of a wildfire, for Small Businesses along our coastlines, Climate Change is indeed very personal. We know Carbon Pollution comes packaged with smog forming pollutants that can lead to lung and heart disease, that threaten our kids health directly. For moms like me and parents everywhere, you know Climate Change is personal and you got involved and i thank you for it. No matter who you are, where you live or what you care about, Climate Change is affecting you and your family today. We are past any further discussion or debate. Scientists are as sure that humans are causing Climate Change as they are that cigarette smoke causes lung cancer. Unless you want to debate that point,we are dont debate climae change any longer because it is our moral responsibility to act. That responsibility right now is clear. That is why we have taken action. Last week, president obama announced epas Clean Power Plan which is the biggest step our country has ever taken to fight Climate Change and protect this planet. He reminded us that while we are the first generation to feel the impacts of Climate Change, we are the last that can effectively do something about it. He is right. I am so proud to be working for this president and so excited that our country has stepped up. I can stand here today and say we are doing something about it. For so long, many of us have worked toward this moment, not just in government but all across the state, communities, organizations and businesses across america. As smog toxics as well and soot forming pollutants but now we have standards for Carbon Pollution as well. For the first time in history, the Clean Power Plan sets those limits. They set it in common sense, achievable ways that will. Rotect our kids health a america posturing dish into a Clean Energy Future is already happening and it has been americas transition to a Clean Energy Future is already happening. With our plan, this nation is on pollutionet carbon by 2030. 2005 levels we will be keeping energy reliable and affordable. The cuts to smog and sought that come with these reductions will Bring Health Benefits for american families. In 2030, and of s 02 from power plants will drop 90 when compared to 2005 levels. Emissions from power plants will levels compared to 2005. Not just as a result of this plan but as a result of six years of concerted effort to do what the Clean Air Act says we must do and protect Public Health and the safety of our communities. As a result, in 2030, we will be avoiding thousands of premature deaths, tens of thousands of asthma attacks and hundreds of thousands of missed school and work days. The average American Family will start seeing real savings on their utility bills. Climate related benefits from the Clean Power Plan will save this country billions of dollars and far outweigh its cost. It is a win all around. Eres how it works the Clean Power Plan set uniform emission rates for power plants that are alike across the country. We use the same rate for every coalfired plant no matter what state you are in and we use the same rate for gasfired plants. This guarantees there is equity and fairness across the board. It is how we do our business. We know everyone in every state is not starting in the same place for some states generate more of their power from renewables, some from natural gas, nuclear him a cold and so on. Along with the unified rate, our plan sets produce should best ,roduction reduction goals giving states the flexibility they need to meet the requirements in what ever customized way those states want to do it. Whatever works best for them, works best for the country. They can run more efficient plants more often or trial electricity from cleaner fuels or take advantage of Energy Efficiency opportunities. No plant has to do this alone, no state must do this alone. They all have the resources of the grid at their disposal. ,t the request of many states we are providing a model rule that states can take and adopt right away if they want to do that. It is easy and can happen right away. It is focused on emission trading so that states can leverage the power of the market to multiply options and minimize cost. It is a readymade option, guaranteed to get states where they need to be. Thats why the economists like it. The point is, there is no one size fits all approach. Our plan puts utilities and states where they belong, in the driver seat. Start seeingll plants from the states in 2016 and they will start making mandatory Carbon Pollution cuts in 2022. The good news is, we wont need to wait until 2030 to start seeing the plans benefits. Many Power Companies are investing to modernize their plants and reduce admissions. More than 35 states have set Renewable Energy targets. Mayors in over 1000 cities have committed to cut Carbon Pollution. We want to encourage these early wins so we have created a Clean Energy Incentive program to help states get ahead of the curve and jumpstart their reductions as soon as 2020. This path forward is affordable, reasonable and we know it can be done. This is not the first time epa has been in this rodeo. Thats why we also know that like clockwork, there will be special interest critics that will be dusting off their same old playbooks. They will say we have to focus on the economy at the expense of the environment. They will claim our plan will shut the lights off or send utility bills through the roof. They are absolutely wrong. They were wrong in the 1990s when they said the same thing in order to oppose our limits on pollution that caused acid rain. Maybe some of you remember they predicted total doomsday. That did not happen. Rain whileid the lights stayed on. They will say our cleaner Energy System will kill jobs. Im not sure they have been following the economics as well as they should because the Solar Industry is creating jobs 10 times faster than the rest of the economy is creating jobs. This is creating jobs not killing the economy. By the way, over the last 40 years, we have cut air pollution by 70 while our economy as tripled. Weone should be saying that need to move the economy forward at the expense of the environment. It has been proven time and time again that we protect the environment and we grow the economy all at the same time. Otherwisee claims because bylen short now the American People have 40 years of history to rely on. At the American People will know better than to listen to these doomsday scenarios and look at history. They will know that action is what we must do and concerted, reasonable action, which is what this plan represents, is really what we are going to do. I want to make clear that epas avoid, not about what we although we know Climate Change is impacting us today and will continue to get worse if we dont take action. It is also about what we gain. Our plan is projected to lead up to 45 billion a year in net benefits in 2030. 45 billion in year in net benefits in 2030 alone. Those benefits will continue to accrue. Averageame year, the American Family will start seeing 85 in annual savings on their utility bills. Savings, 85 a year. That plan will protect Americans Health and their pocketbooks. We would not accept anything less. One of the main ways we have gotten here has been by listening. We received feedback from millions of people on our draft plan from state utilities communities and more. Comments andublic hundreds of meetings with stakeholders and those comments and meetings helped us get to a plan that we know works for everyone. It was feedback from the utilities that made sure our plans mirrored how the electricity moves around the grid so that we could open up opportunities. It was input from states that aire sure we set f standards across the country. It was comments from folks that told us we needed to extend the timeframe for mandatory cuts by two years until 2022 but we knew we did not have to wait until 2022 to entice the reductions using federal leverage. That is what we put together. States and utilities told us they needed more time so we listened. All thel plan reflects needs of our stakeholders and as a result it is stronger. It is Clean Air Act strong. Thats why im confident our work will not be undone with so many new voices at the table. We know that americans want solutions. We know they want this type of leadership and we know that they are ready for action. I want to finish up by reminding you what the Clean Power Plan means moving forward. It means 75 billion in net benefits for the United States in 2030. It means 85 a year in savings on our utility bills in 2030. It means driving innovation and creating new jobs. It means riding and accelerating our transition to a clean energy economy, even faster than it is already happening. It will mean less suffering. We will see thousands fewer premature deaths and missed school and work days. In short, it means a Brighter Future for our kids, in particular, the most vulnerable in our communities that are already susceptible to the challenge of Climate Change and need leadership to ensure that their Public Health and their livelihood and their children are protected. As we look ahead, it means showing the world just what is possible when you join the fight. Climate change is a challenge that we can and must conquer together. Now we move to the implantation. Implementation. We are here to support states every step of the way. Lets get to work. Thank you. [applause] thanks so much. Let me introduced a senior fellow at resources for the future. Probably the most knowledgeable person about the Clean Air Act. Dallas will help with the q and a. If you turn in questions right now, we will pass those over to the table on the left and dallas probably already has a question. Administrator, one of the things about the last couple of years has been the process of engagement. Is there a theory behind that . I think the theory is democracy. That is how it works. I think that is how it always worked. Understanding that we essentially work for the people and their engagement is important. I dont think there is any issue i have dealt with that is more complicated, that demanded a longer view, the Climate Change. The engagement with this role is unprecedented without question. I think people know epa has been doing a robust job reaching out to states and local communities. This administration has demanded it and done it in a coordinated way. The Clean Power Plan is the it pygmy of engagement the academy of engagement. We spent years working with folks and opening up doors to all kinds of ideas. I think one of the things we are most proud of is how much this rule changed because it listened to the comments that came in. We did our job and our response to comments will take you quite a while to get through. Seen aar we have not marshaling of bipartisan support for the rule. Are you optimistic that you can overcome that . The environment has never been a partisan issue. I think the more that people are feeling the constant impact of climate now and the concerns that it raises, the peoples voices will be heard. One of the value of this kind of engagement is you get people excited and interested and willing to speak up. I think you will see that while there is a lot of bipartisan discussion, there is a lot of partisan discussion now about it , you will see people doing what they always do. The state know the Clean Air Act , what their responsibility is now. You will see them submitting plans. We had no interest in going from something that was incredibly engaging to waiting for things to happen. We will be out in communities, working with states, working with utilities. I think the utilities and states know this is doable. Once we start going, people see that this is a challenge we can address. The Clean Power Plan comes forward at a time when there is dramatic technological change in the industry. It seems like the change happening in this decade is comparable to the change in cell phones in the last decade. What is the provision with respect to reconsideration . Goals locked in with the or is there a reopener clause . We wanted to make sure that when we were doing this plan we set a longterm market signal. We are not going against the grain of how the energy world is transitioning. The Technology Advances are coming at us. We wanted to recognize that in order to reduce Carbon Pollution , we did not want to establish energy policy, we wanted to look at where the world was headed and follow that. I dont expect the energy world will take a right turn. I figure will continue to head and perhaps more quickly than we might of anticipated. With these Technology Advances, the great thing is the United States can grab some leadership. We can provide the business and technologies other countries will have to rely on to move forward. That is what we think we are going to be doing with this plan, capturing that momentum, not shifting or changing it but looking at what the future has for carbon emission strategies and following where the Energy Transitions already heading. Around whatis built is technologically feasible at the state level. Now that the plan is in place and goals are established for states, is there still a role for state leadership . How is that going to manifest in the future . I think there will be. One of the things we have to get our arms around, there are states that have been doing this for a while. This rule is built on already known actions, entirely on things people have been doing that they found profitable to do. States would not have gone out front at detriment to themselves. We all like to think we would do that, but we dont. Thats the good news. It is profitable to do this. I have every expectation that we will go ahead of what this actually calls for in 2030. If we do this correctly and we set this up in an approach that allows states to enter into markets, to have utilities operate the same way they always have, regionally and nationally, i think you will see this happen seamlessly. I never regret a regulation i dont have to do. Why would i want to continue to rethink this when i have it on a trajectory . It is built into the market. It will get the reductions i want at the same time it will grow a market for itself in jobs. That is a total win and one i can allow to go running off password i want it to go. Logic you have described hinges on Cooperation Among the states to a degree. Ask,uestion one hates to what about the states that dont want to cooperate . What is envisioned for trying to achieve a costeffective outcome and trying to bring the whole nation along . One of the things we realized between proposal and final, we really needed to go to these uniform standards. It becomes a common currency. It allows the market and the grid to operate. , ive had at lot of conversations with states and there are states that dont want to link arms with other states. They want their own independence and we allow that to happen in a number of ways, not only by saying if you want to get the reductions within your own state you can, but you can still have linkages into markets without having formal mechanisms to do that because we now have a common currency. If you set up your plan as a mathbased approach, go do with anybody else doing mathbased. You can trade, do whatever you want, you dont need to enter into a formal agreement. The same with rate based. There is a little more rules of the road to make sure it is being done well but you can either use mathbased or rate based and make this happen. States can enter into markets epa will help manage and keep track of so we know that the state our meeting obligations but it does not require the same level of collaboration that anybody would have anticipated when we proposed to this. We think we have allowed states that want to be independent be as independent as they want but not to pass up opportunities that are less expensive for them to achieve these goals. We will collect questions from the audience and twitter. Audience, what would you say to coal miners about the rule . I would tell them, i realize there are communities that are suffering already that see this rule as bringing more challenges to the table for them. I feel like there is an obligation to address those issues as there is in any economic transition. We know that the coal industry has not been gathering steam for quite a few decades. I am excited that the president put together a Budget Proposal called the power plus plan which looks at focusing resources on those communities. They dont need them at 2030, they need them now. Im hoping that now that this rule is finalized there will be an opportunity to refocus attention on that plan which will substantially benefit those communities and allow appropriate transition and services as economies shift. A question from twitter, how easily might a future administration change or unwind the power plan . Does the Clean Power Plant have the rule of law . As people get their arms around the final rule they will see it is quite legally solid. People will debate that and do that endlessly but we feel pretty good about it. We feel it is very strong and will stand the test of time in courts. The question many ask after that, what about the next administration . I think you could probably answer that as well as i do. When you have a final Clean Air Act rule, it is a solid obligation and you need to have a substantial record indicating that things like the endangerment finding which the Supreme Court has spoken to a number of times, maybe we made a mistake. Litigatedse have been and are on solid ground and i think a new administration will hopefully want to continue to support this and i think they will see state plans in and moving forward insignificant number by the time of any transition. For those that dont want to, it is a significant hurdle for them to reverse this. You mentioned looking forward to paris. Regulationsother affecting other aspects of the trucks. Methane, heavy anticipate with respect to the ability to make these different regulations under regulatory approach costeffective . Know we are not playing paying twice as much for a loaf of bread over here as we are over there. How far can we go with the regulatory approach . Thing, in terms of the Clean Power Plant, the data that this issolid going to be cost beneficial. It is not marginal in any way. If you look at the heavyduty vehicle rule, the second one we following a trajectory of Technology Improvements that are going to be significant benefits to consumers everywhere. When you look at oil and gas, every time you leak methane, you are leaking product. That will be an impetus for people to grab that and for new technologies being developed to make that more easy to do. Successful has been in getting to the point where we recognize the limits of technology. We continue to push those limits as much as we can but not to the point where we are going to do that to the detriment of the economy. We have looked at this one million ways to sunday but at least under the Clean Air Act we have not seen a detriment to the economy. It has been worth trillions of dollars of benefit. You just need to look at history to know whether or not we have the wherewithal to move this forward. Said,paraphrase what you i think youre saying the regulator can see the low hanging fruit. What about the fruit higher up in the tree . How do we get at that . Incentives in place to get innovators to continue pushing. One of the reasons why we wanted to move this out to 2030 if you look at it come a we look at the economics all the way along. Is to send that longterm signal. Essentially, the Clean Air Act allows us, and what we have advantage of is to look at market forces. To say, where does this country need to be . Leasts point in time, at my reading of this, the science has spoken. A low carbon future is inevitable. The question is, do you do that kicking and screaming or do you markets as a way to generate and leverage that movement . Do you do it in a way that is consistent where energy is moving in the u. S. And to you grab that and send a longterm symbol . You are the innovator, you are selling the technologies, you are growing thedo you do it in s consistent where energy is moving in the jobs. One of the biggest criticisms of a lot of the movement in solar has been too much of the equipment manufactured in china. Do it here. I think we are sending the right signals on what epa believes to be a future of the lower pollution that is essential for Public Health and the environment. That epa is responsible to acknowledge and push toward it. Reduction credits for noninitiated one of the forms of credits created for compliance. Question asks, why are reduction credits focused on renewables and Energy Efficiency in low income communities . Can gas earned these credits . Touess this is with respect the early measures in 2021. I think that is been one of the confusions im hoping people will take a close look. The Emission Reduction credits can be earned, not just in so Emission Reduction credits earned in a rate based system. For doing thego trading mechanisms to account for reductions appropriately. What they are talking about is an early Reduction Program we initiated for two reasons. We were convinced it would be better to start 20, 20 2 reductions in 2020 two. That there was a lift that would have driven to higher cost options having to been invested in, as opposed to waiting longer so lowercost options would the available. With very, significant increase in Renewable Energy because of the growth we have seen and Renewable Energy. For the all all the right legal and policy decisions, it was better. We still wanted to make sure there was not a hey artist hiatus. We have a lot for Renewable Energy that people are sitting still waiting for the final rules to get done. They were worried and we were worried it would send the wrong signal to have the empty time. We wanted to continue with the movement we were protecting in renewables. That is why renewables were included. The second thing region were talking about early credit . That isrator mccarthy right. That is where i think the question is getting confused. The reason why we did low income Energy Efficiency is intensely of doing and doing Energy Efficiency programs at the epa and helping utilities and credits for a long time. Sure that wemake recognize it. For it to be implemented and effective to draw the same kind of reduction. One of the things we want to make sure if there is any increase and what were project think, is one gallon per month increase that tapers off to incredible savings by 2030, we low income minority communities would be hardest hit. We want to make sure efficiency programs equally benefit them as they would anywhere else where it may be easier. We do we did get a credit to folks willing to start up the programs early on. This is not only thing the states will be worried about over the years. Imitation of the mass rule, mystery substance rule, potentially new ozone standard. It will affect states and electric utility in particular. Get thought to how they interact with environmental told . Administrator mccarthy always. I think utilities are recognizing the fact that we are thoughtfully going through these things. We never have any discussion that does not consider what went before and new rules that may be coming up. When the toxic standard went out, they were worried about like thees in place coal ash rule and others. We keep working through these issues and will continue to do that going for works. Ward. Ing for i cant resist this question. Prefer . Carbon trade or carbon tax . Administrator mccarthy you say potato, i sits atop no. I will take anything that reduces carbon emission. How about that . [applause] thank you very much. We really appreciate you your time. Life is short. Think the administrator for joining us. Hank the administrator for joining us. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] a reminder, you can see this event any time online at www. Cspan. Org. Bennett andner, scott tipton today sent a letter to the epa administrator requesting she visit and wants in colorado to talk about the damage done by the epa accidental release of contaminated waste into the animus river. More coverage coming up this afternoon from capitol hill. A look back at a recent Senate Hearings looking at telephone scams aimed at seniors. A victim testifies along with the Technology Expert who says frequentlyre outsmarting antiskimming technology. We will open the phone lines to get your reaction. Is itspan city tour literary and historical sites across the nation to hear from local historians, authors, and civic leaders. On cspan. Nd this Month Congress on summer recess, we are showing the city at 6 00ry afternoon eastern. Today the literary life of lincoln, nebraska, the biography of chief standing there and the removal of native American Children from their homes. Tonight, discussions from the annual Aspen Security Forum, topics include isis, recruitment efforts and use of social media, plus panels on u. S. Vessel and threats toes europe. Assistant attorney general for National Security john carlin spoke at the gathering to talk about how isis uses the internet as a recruitment tool. Here is a look. Groups toe terrorists put the message off on platforms they know are accessed by the largest population possible. Hundreds of people are gathering this. We are all familiar with the shocking images and despicable what they will show of public executions. In another video they will show the armed soldier, armed terrorists with a gun in one hand and the other hand holding a kitten. Showing in thees candy of the children. What they will look to see whether or not they can with largescale environment with images. Bombardment with images and angle them on the hook. All of the coverage from the Aspen Security Forum coming up tonight here on seas and at a eastern. Night q a,day antiwar activist Phyllis Manis ,n u. S. Foreignpolicy on 9 11 recent negotiations with iran and the war on terrorism. Who are the origins . It is something we can do something about. What is the u. S. Policy regarding isis . Why isnt it working . Can we go to war against terrorism. Are we doing it wrong or is it wrong to say there should be a war against terrorism at all . Those are the questions that are the most important. Sunday night 8 00 eastern pacific on cspan q a. Look for to book tvs growth programs. Saturday, september 5 we are live from our Nations Capital for the 15th and mercy 15th annual National Book festival followed sunday with our live Index Program with former second lady and senior fellow at the American Enterprise institute, lynne cheney. Book tvs cspan2, television for serious readers. Now a discussion from the conference focusing on workplace raids and traffic stop order by joel at pyro. They discuss republican president ial candidate Donald Trumps comments about immigrants. This is about one hour 10 minutes. [laughter] we have an amazing panel today and the people fighting against us for a long time. We will start off today with a small video. I think it is important to show the video not only because it showcases one of our own panelists who is now 15 years old, nine at the time of the video but also showing a little bit into the private wealth and who this person is. You will be able to feel little bit. Pay attention. There is clips of chain gangs and jails and what he is then to the community. Also, the filmmaker. Selling will be showing tomorrow at 9 00 a. M. Catherine will be there as well. Want to invite everyone to see the full film to see them tomorrow. We will go ahead and get started in about a fiveminute clip. It is a trailer for the movie. Breaking news just coming into us right now. This operation is the seventh Business Inside city limits. I know how to solve the problem. We used to discipline our children. Why do i get all the heat because someone does something wrong and i use the word punishment, with no one else will use. Why should they not be punished . [inaudible] whose phoenix girl tearyeyed plea to president barack obama is seen around the world on you to. Youtube. I know why. They went on here. [speaking spanish] there is only one reason, its you. Like i am 90 years old. I am 90 years old. I will vote every time. Can i be a sheriff at 90 . Well, maybe. Most older people are afraid of children and afraid of people who dont obey the law, because those people are nasty. You have to be punished. Issue of immigration will become an issue of fresh contention in our country with the passage of a controversial law in arizona, and the reactions we have seen across america. Other states are considering immigration. These also add new problems. We are still going to do the crime suppression operation. About 35. Now they are going to go to jail. We are scared to go out. [inaudible] if they have to hide, i have to hide. Today you will hear testimony. It affects children, communities and families. Have a right to send a message to ohio. Am in washington for a reason i am taking a little heat. I crack down on him it gratian. The u. S. Justice department launched an investigation. Who do they think they are . This is my hate file. There is a pinata. See it . Cut that head off. Thisshows you how volatile whole situation is. Eric holder says there will be responsibility. I worked for my reputation echo no one will take that away. Disruption of evidence, financial fraud, abuse of power. This is the most out of control Law Enforcement in america. Mexican on them street to the presiding judge of the criminal court, no one is safe. I will see my parents. [speaking spanish] what do we want . Justice when to do we want it . Now no matter how it turns out, i want justice. Period. With our blood, sweat, tears. Get out of my country i dont want anything that happened to me to ever happen again. [applause] carlos welcome, everyone. My name is Carlos Garcia and im the director. What we are going to do today is have a conversation with the six people up here and we will do a series of questions and open it up for questions from people in the room. I also wanted to recognize the parents of catherine who are also in the room. They are here and you saw them in the video and for their fight and continuing to support their daughter. I wanted [applause] we can get start with catherine in asking the question of what it was like. What is it like looking at the video and seeing what happened and in that moment, what was a like to see your parents being arrested on tv . Catherine it was really hard. I felt alone like i was in a completely different world. I knew i had my family members with me but it was not the same. I knew that i had to fight for them to matter what [emotional] how they fought for me. They always wanted a good education for me. They are [emotional] they are everything to me so i knew i had to fight for them. It was really hard. I i was scared i would maybe never see them again. I was scared if the got deported, i would stay here alone and nobody would want me because i wouldnt have any parents. I felt like people werent going to like me. [crying] i was really scared but once i started hearing about things i could do to help my parents, i did them, i fought for them, and i did everything so i could be with them again. [applause] [applause] we are all very proud of you. Carlos thank you for sharing. One of my mentors has been fighting for a long time, fighting the whole time. I want to ask you, why did arpaio do this . Why did he start doing this to our people . Let me take a few seconds to tell you how inspirational for those of you who were not here as this unraveled, this was arpaios first televised worksite raid and what catherine had to go through is to see their own parents taken away. What inspired catherine, she then in turn inspired all of us in the community and i want to recognize her and her parents. She fought to get them out and once they were out, they continued the battle to make sure it doesnt happen ever again. [applause] what inspires arpaio . What makes him who he is . He is a racist pig, etc. , etc. I think there is a certain version, a certain pleasure in what he does. Let me remind you that his first major what he calls crime suppression raids. These are neighborhood raids where he would send hundreds of officers into them and build temporary jails in parking lots the first one was on good friday. It was on good friday and he was aimed precisely at the people who were going to mass and going to church. What we got to witness that day was people dressed well on their way to church or coming from church being walked through all of the media. Remember, this was the first one. All of the media was there local, national, international. They got to watch mexicans being carted. So, part of it is really, it is a personal hatred, a personal perversion, a personal sickness in him. The other part is pure politics. This is arizona, a very fine point of the arrow of hatred towards immigrants, towards mexicans, latinos. He has learned to exploit that. He is, we must concede, perhaps a sick man but a highly talented one at manipulating the media and in sharing his political longevity. Carlos next, victoria lopez formerly on the florence project. Victoria, who was arpaio before he decided to go after the community . Victoria interestingly, i had not caught that clip before. He says i work hard for my reputation. He has been working hard at it for a long time. Certainly, one of the areas he has been the notorious at is violating peoples rights is in the jails. All of you should participate in the action going on tomorrow afternoon in a campaign to try to shut down the city. Building tent city as part of his political strategy to show how he was so willing to go after people and punish people in a really degrading and dehumanizing way. We had been involved in litigation around the jail conditions for over 40 years now. That litigation has been going on longer than i have been alive, challenging the Inadequate Health care, the overall conditions in the jail, documenting people having to be in the tents in oppressive heat. There are people currently dealing with the oppressive conditions. This is something that he continues to use as part of his political platform to gain favor with those who support him, touting how terrible the conditions are, touting having people in the jails wear pink underwear that is an effort to dehumanize people in the community. Not just immigrants, but for people, people facing jail and the criminal justice system. That was clearly part of his political agenda and his political platform was around the conditions in the jails. We saw maybe we could market with the Sheriffs Office entering into an agreement with the federal government. Will it propelled the conversation about Immigration Enforcement and authorizing local agencies to engage in immigration activities. That was not that was through agreements all over the country. Through that agreement and through that process, i would say it emboldened the share of an agency to begin the dramatic increase in Immigration Enforcement activity in the county. There have been particular moments certainly through what he has done in the jails and the area of Immigration Enforcement that has served as a platform for him for many years. The this has been going on for decades. Thank you. Next, ms. Romero. She is working toward her deferred action. What was it like inside the jail . Please speak a little of what your experience was like. Natalie my experience was not the best. [laughter] natalie it was something i never thought i would be living but unfortunately, i had to be in that jail for three months. I remember the ugly striped uniform that smelled horrible. Another thing was i had to share a room with over 125 other girls. We had to share a shower. Natalie it was something i never thought i would be living but unfortunately, i had to be in that jail for three months. I remember the ugly striped uniform that smelled horrible. Another thing was i had to share a room with over 125 other girls. We had to share a shower. The food in there just the name sounds horrible. Slop. It is really smelly and it is food that i dont even think a dog would eat. There were times when the slop had worms and they said that was fine and it was just vitamins. There was a time i got my milk and it was rotten and they said i had to drink it that way. Another thing every time i would visit, they would handcuff me to a table. I was not allowed to have contact with my family members. [crying] im sorry. After those two months, i was transferred to the detention center. When i got there, they offered me an application to work. [emotional] i said i would not take it because the reason i was there was because i was working and i didnt think it was fair to go in there and work for them for one dollar a day. Carlos thank you. [applause] carlos next, jose. What was the raid like for you and what was your experience like and can you paint a picture of that experience . What were you thinking when that happened . Jose [speaking spanish] translator thank you for being here. Jose [speaking spanish] translator my name is jose and i was one of the many victims of arpaio. October 18, 2012 was a normal day like any other at my job. I left my home around 4 30 in the morning. I never expected that this would happen to me. I arrived at work and we had to load the trucks with material. All of the sudden, we heard people say the sherriffs arrived. We were completely surrounded. It was probably 6080. We were told to sit on the ground on the dirt, not to move or to try anything. They had us from 5 00 until 9 00 in the morning sitting on the ground. As soon as i saw it was the sheriff, i was scared for my family. I knew the sheriffs were deporting people. I thought i would be deported and never see my family. I didnt know if to call my wife or leave it. I finally called her while no one was looking. And the sheriff saw me and said he would break the phone. I told my wife that arpaio was there and he would take me. We were transferred to 4th avenue jail. They had us overnight and a little of the next day. They transferred me to the jail. I was there for 4. 5 months. It is a terrible, ugly place. I would never wish it on anyone. The food was terrible. There are many times i preferred not to eat at all. Most of the food is rotten. The clothes you had to wear whether they fit or not. The rooms were cold. I am sick. Him and i have a problem with my back. I could not do too much movement. When i got there, i had a top bunk. It was very difficult for me to climb every morning and come down. I asked if i could get the bottom bunk. They said no. I said i was sick and he said he didnt care. I had to sleep wherever he told me. I asked for an appointment with a doctor and it was not until they wanted me to see the doctor until i got it. When it came for the appointment, i told the doctor and he said i needed an actual official form from the officer so that he could give me the bottom bunk. I went with the officer and told him what i had been told and he said i needed a doctors note so he would give me the bottom bed. They were just playing around with me. They are really ugly experiences. [applause] carlos next, the organizing director at puente. Why are these people here . Why arent they deported or why arent they still imprisoned . I am the organizing director at puente. We have been around the past eight years and we came out of a direct response to the contract that sheriff arpaio signed and put into implementation. We were born out of the crisis and a few years back, a big piece of the needs of our Key Community beyond doing the protest and the legal stuff, it was essentially on a casebycase basis. Our people were saying they need support. My family, my husband, my daughter is in detention and we need you to help us get them out. Jose found out about our work inside the jail and called his wife and said to look for us. We have been becoming experts at understanding the legal system, helping families navigate it and fight to get their loved ones out and in the past two years, we have gotten over 150 people out of detention through this level of advocacy and political education and leadership building. [applause] carlos thank you. I want to come back to catherine. If you could expand a little more on the experience of fighting for your parents. We saw in the video you went to d. C. And kept fighting. How do you think this will shape your future, set the rest of your life . Catherine i went to washington, d. C. To talk to congress. After that, i started going to marches, protests, different events where i could speak to people to make them help me so they could help me get my parents out. I also got involved with puente. They were a big help. Him and they were always there him even after my parents were out, they were always supporting us. In the future, i think this will help me because i am going to be a stronger person. Whatever i become in the future, i am going to be strong and have more knowledge of what i am doing to help me and my community, my family. It is something that me and my parents are never going to forget, an experience that will scar us forever, but now i know that we can live in not total peace but 95 peace so we can stay here together and i think in the future, there will be a big difference for everyone. Not just my family, but for everyone in the community. [applause] carlos will you expand a little bit about what arpaio symbolizes and how he has impacted politics. The icon nationally for the antiimmigrant movement, donald trump. There is a legitimate discussion to be had about immigration in this country and about how to proceed forward. There is a legitimate discussion. You cannot have that discussion with people who believe that we are inferior, criminals, rapists, murderers, and believe we are raising our children that way with those values. What arpaio is, is a moral gathering point for the evil that exists in this country. This battle, this clear hate against us he became the beacon for it. As his popularity grew, he gave license to others to speak in that most vile way that he has described us, catherine, catherines family that most vile way. You think about arpaio and all of the institutional evil. He is a beacon of evil for racism. Donald trump is trying to take his place and he is welldressed with 1 billion but we will see whether he has his reserve of hate and people in his gut. It appears he does but that is what we face and that is who arpaio is in this state and country. Carlos victoria, what has the legal battle looked like with arpaio . We always hear he will always almost go down. Victoria i think the litigation has started with immunity in the county. We currently at the aclu have two major lawsuits challenging the activities we have heard about today, the worksite raids and the crime suppression sweeps we heard about. That litigation i think in part, we got to that point where we had to bring this to the court because politically, arpaio had free reign and i think through the court, we have had some major wins, frankly, in stopping worksite raids and ending the crime suppression sweeps and finding Court Findings that arpaio engaged in racial profiling, violated constitutional rights. These have been major victories that have been carried by the community through their experiences and having that affirmed by a court and also having a court order that there be major reforms taking place in the agency itself. I think one of the important things that has come to light out of the litigation is the disrepair the agency has been in as a policing agency in this country and as we look at how Police Conduct themselves across the country. Ncso is an important example of what reform looks like in a police department. Through the racial profiling case, we had an order from the judge ordering training, revision of policy, data collection, body cameras to monitor the activities of a sheriffs deputies, ordering the Sheriffs Office to stop enforcing immigration laws, stop Immigration Enforcement activities. Those have been major wins. They have, to cut there have been people in the Community Forward and testified in hearings, then plaintiffs in these cases and used the courts to be able to end those practices and frankly, it is the beginning of a conversation about what happens next. I can go through the history of the cases. Im sure many of you are following what is happening in the racial profiling case. There are currently content he contempt hearings going on against arpaio for violating court orders. And him and i am sure many of you have following what is laying on in the racial profiling case. There are currently contempt hearings going on against sheriff arpaio and leadership in variousfor violating court orders. We will be back in court on monday, despite sheriff arpaios to have the judge recused from the case. We will see on monday how we will proceed and hopefully will be back contract that hearings to address those violations of the court order and what the remedies will be for the community and the plaintiffs and work from there. That is not really an update on what the litigation look like but if anyone is interested in knowing more specifics about the cases, i am happy to answer those. We have had some major wins in defeating arpaio but the committee has really driven those cases successfully. I want to ask you you work to fight other peoples cases. If you could talk a bit about what you do and a similar question i had with catherine. How do you see your experience shaping your future . How do you think it will affect your future . I work with puente and im helping people detained like i was fighting their cases. We are not lawyers but we help them because i know there are lot of people that cannot afford to pay a lawyer. I do it because i dont believe in families being separated. I just do it because i dont want anybody suffering the way i suffered. I dont think there should be children without their parents. And that is really why i do it. The way i see this affecting my future in a way it has already affected me. Due to the criminal charge i was left with, im no longer eligible for daca, which was my only hope so i could go to college and get a better job and have a Better Future and help my family. But, for now, those dreams are kind of just going with the flow. But, i am not going to stop fighting for what i believe is right and that is why i joined this lawsuit. I have the faith we will win. [applause] carlos jose, how did you feel when you heard your family was outside fighting for you . It was an emotional video were your children are talking and pushing to get you out. How did you feel when your family was fighting for you . Jose [speaking spanish] translator there is a video made that was very moving to me. Jose [speaking spanish] translator they fought really hard for me and im really proud of my family. They gave me strength to really withstand the time i spent in jail. Very hard to be in jail and have your children outside. They call you and ask where you are. I had to lie to my children the first two months. Because i did not want them to know i was in jail. The first time i spoke to them inside the jail, i said i want to vegas to work. My youngest son was five years old. He kept asking me when i would be back. I would say i was not sure because i had a lot of work. They would ask me for pictures of where i was. How was i going to send pictures if arpaio took away my phone . I said i will send you a picture. One time, my eldest son asked me when i was returning home. I said i did not know. I said i did not know. He said he must have a lot of money because you have working a long time. I said yeah. He said when i came home he had a list of toys he wanted me to buy him. I said ok. I could not lie any longer. So i had to tell my wife to tell the truth. I did not have the courage to tell them. My wife thought for fought for me a lot. She never left me alone. She worked to sustain my children. She paid for the attorney. She paid all of the bills. I am very thankful for her. There was a moment when i told her i would not do anything and i would selfdeport. Because the attorney was taking money and not doing much. She said no. When i would speak to my daughter alejandra, she was a person that gave me a lot of strength. She would tell me that i was there because god believed i was strong. And to fight and not give up. She told me to keep fighting and fighting and not give up. They also told me while i was inside that my father was very sick. I cried because i could not speak with him. I just knew he was a sick and was going to die. Without being able to do much myself. Theyre moments that hurt and will hurt for the rest of my life. [applause] to close the panel, what is next . What did the demands look like . Why are we marching tomorrow . Has anybody here heard there is a big protest happening tomorrow outside the 4th avenue has anybody here heard there is a big protest happening tomorrow outside the 4th avenue jail . Great. That is good. So, as we have heard from different folks here, a lot of our people have gone through the 4th avenue jail, including myself. It is a terrible place. At this moment, it is a very volatile moment for arpaio. When you have some free time, you can read about why. He is in big trouble ie