2013 until december 10, 2014, you served as emergency manager of detroit. Kevyn yes. Brian why did you take the job . Kevyn i have been asked that a lot of times. I was a restructuring professional. Detroit is 82 africanamerican, a city that had gone through several decades of decline. It was a city that needed restructuring. I initially was a little reluctant to take the job. I thought it would be difficult and i was comfortable in my corporate attorney life, my family and i. My managing partner steve and my wife said, look, this could be a call to action. It is important. It is outside your comfort zone, but we have people making the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of their country. This is temporary. And you will still be in an Airconditioned Office in the summer and heated in the winter. Sometimes you have to give back. After some reflection, it seemed like the right thing to do. Brian you are based in washington and a graduate of michigan law school. Did that have anything to do with why they asked you . Kevyn i think it did. I was an undergraduate at the law school at university of michigan. From 1976 to 1983, i lived in michigan. The 1980s were pretty good years. The class of 1982 was rick snyder. 1983 was me. Mike duggan, we all came up in that era. Having a connection to the city and understanding what it was in its heyday, as well as having participated in other cases, the chrysler case, perhaps, made me seem like a more logical selection than someone else. Brian wxyz tv in detroit covered you a lot. We are going back to one of the first times in march of 2013, to get a sense of what they were saying before you took the job. [video clip] a historic day, but not the sort of history a city and its people want to make. Detroit has been declared in financial emergency. Cash deficit of 100 million coming up june 30. 15 billion in longterm debt. 1. 5 billion of that due in the next five years. The governor has taken the next step in getting the finances under control. Jim kurtzner was in the room when he made the announcement. He joins me now. Relating to kevyn orr, do we know when his first day will be . They have to do all the paperwork. His start date is march 25. Brian what did you feel like at that point . Kevyn it is interesting. At that point, i had underestimated the amount of attention the case would get. I had participated in other highprofile matters in federal government. I was responsible for supervising the whitewater investigation. Three years earlier, we completed the chrysler case. Another significant matter. I had been involved in significant things. I thought this is another job with a little bit of attention early on. I did not really appreciate the local scene. That report, mayor kilpatrick was sentenced to 28 years. The city had gone through a long period of trauma about the state of affairs. The city did not look like an American City should. There was a long history of reviews. Governor rick snyder spent two years reviewing the status of detroit and pushing out reports, including 22 pages of finding of facts on march 2013. That was when i began to get an inkling of how significant this might have been and how the Due Diligence and Academic Work had played into the body politic as expressed by the press corps. I began to realize it might be more significant than i thought it would be. Brian what was the first thing you noticed was really a mess when you got there . Kevyn the city was operating. Mayor bing had restored a sense of confidence and asked workers to give back 10 , particularly Public Safety workers. We had 9000 active city workers with 6000 on the civil side. 4000 in Public Safety. 2700 as police, 1100 as firemen. 400 as firefighters and emts. Two thirds of the budget is Public Safety. We met with the Public Safety unions for several reasons. Some of our initial metrics, 56 minutes response times for police, were down to 12. Are now down to 12. They were not good metrics for any city, let alone detroit. Our initial view was, we have to focus on the basics. Lets get government running as it should, deal with Public Safety. Focus on delivery to citizens. The other stuff that had happened in the past, we were not going to spend time looking at that. My term was 18 months. The clock started ticking from day one. My team and i had to get focused and move quickly. Brian you left Jones Day Law Firm to do this. Kevyn resigned from the firm, totally separated from the firm, and worked exclusively as emergency manager for detroit. Brian youre back to the firm now . Kevyn back to the firm now, yes. Brian here is a stumble august 2013. Back to wxyz. [video clip] these are comments the emergency manager made that he may be regretting for the next year and a half he will be the emergency manager in detroit. Look at what he says in the wall street journal published this weekend. Detroit was dumb, lazy, happy, and rich. He goes on to say that anyone with an eighth grade education can get 30 years of a good job and pension and healthcare, but you do not have to worry about what is going to come. That is a reference to detroit going through bankruptcy. Some 20,000 city workers facing cuts in their pension and health care. Brian why did you make those comments . Do you stand by them . Kevyn i do stand by them, but let me give you some context. We were having an interview with the wall street journal. We were talking about the city in the 1920s and 1930s. We said, the city was rich and buying art. The city was dumb, lazy, happy, and rich. Senator cory booker used those very phrases three times the week after that. Had no idea that anyone was ever going to make that connection to the contemporary city at that time. Dumb, lazy, rich. We were not rich. Clearly, i was not talking about the city. Eighth grade education, that was a reference to both my grandmothers having an eighthgrade education. It did not dawn on me that had any connection to what we were doing at that time. But let me tell you, the city exploded, commentators, that is, for about a week and a half. Finally, i went and said, look, you can scour my professional behavior and background for the next 30 years. Years. The past 30 even in the most heated time, you have never heard me use that kind of language about anyone, let alone a city i am obligated to represent and stand by. I appreciate people have taken umbrage with it because they thought i was referring to the city at that time. That was not my intent, but i will apologize for it. I do not insult people and have never done that. Even people i have been in heated events with would not say that is my character. But we need to work behind the offguard comments. There is a difference between the wall street journal and working city, that kind of stuff. We need to move behind that. I had a little over a year at that time to get done with all this. I am happy to say that when i did that, cool heads prevailed. A lot of commentators said, we understand what he meant. Brian Rachel Maddow talked about the difficulty that happened in the state at the time of getting an emergency manager. Lets watch what she said. [video clip] michiganders voted to repeal the Emergency Management law. But the republican still held majority in legislature and passed a replacement bill to the one that just got repealed, but only in a way that could not be repealed the way the old law was. 13 weeks after that, republicans in michigan are going for it, going for the big one. Rick snyder announced he would use the takeover law that got repealed and reinstated. Yeah, he would use the takeover law to overrule the Voting Rights of the population of the largest city in michigan. With the takeover, this will put roughly half the black population of michigan under direct control of governor rick snyder. If you are an africanamerican and live in michigan, the chances are one in two you will be allowed to vote for elected officials. Brian your reaction . Kevyn yes, the law was repealed. But it was public act 4. I came in under 72. Then 436 took effect. On the 28th, i think it was. That was a process under the michigan constitution entitled to be taken up. Elections have consequences. One of them is a joint legislature. House,cans in the in thes ins senate. They did what was constitutionally permissible. The second layer is there was a lot of chatter about Voting Rights, suspension of Voting Rights. It is not true. We had two elections, one for mike duggan, on a write in ballot, and Governor Snyder was reelected with more votes out of detroit in the first time around. Voting rights were preserved. Number three, if you had come to the city at that time and looked around, certainly, most reasonable people would have come away feeling a receivership, which is what i was, was an appropriate mechanism to address 60 years of neglect. There were homes with 20yearold trees growing through the roof. Some of the police cars did not have bumpers on them. Our ambulances i had a meeting with an emt Union President in the fall of 2013. In city hall that day, a woman had a seizure downstairs but there were no ambulances available. He had to stop and help with the seizure because they were being run into the ground. Any reasonable person would have said a receivership, which has been going on for a couple hundred years, this has been worthy. Brian i read that 600 municipalities in the country have gone through bankruptcy, but this is by far the largest ever bankruptcy . Kevyn a different order of magnitude. The start was 15 billion in debt. We discovered it was 18 billion in longterm debt. The ironic thing about this is, of the 10 billion secured, we agreed to pay the secured debt. But for the 8 billion that was unsecured, 5. 7 billion of that was Retiree Healthcare obligations, obligations to retirees where the city had not saved a dime coming out of the General Fund Budget year after year. 72 of the citys budget until 2023 would be dedicated to Legacy Service debt cost and health care. 720 out of a billion dollar General Fund Budget would be dealing with backwards facing opposition. The city would have to contract. 3. 5 billion was unfunded pension obligations. The certificates of participation, that was engineered in 2005, 2006, supposedly as a solution to underfunding. What it did was set the city back with almost 2 billion in debt. 5 billion was unsecured pension obligations. It was quite severe in terms of debt service. I remember doing the math. I came up with a figure. If you took all of the citys Discretionary Income for any fourth of july celebration, city parks, concerts, and dedicated it to pay off unsecured debt, it would be 60 years. You clearly could not do it. We recognized the sentiments expressed, that it was unfair. I received invective. One of the statements in court was that Governor Snyder was the plantation master and i was his uncle tom overseer. But we tried to work through it and focus on the problems at hand. Over time, people saw the effort as an honest broker. Some of the noise started dying down. Brian Coleman Young was the mayor of the city, first black mayor of detroit, for five terms. What impact did he have on the city . When he left office, what kind of shape was the city in . Kevyn there are studies. The free press did a study. Coleman young was a good mayor. He left the city in good financial condition. There was concern he had focused on building the city downtown, sometimes perceived at the expense of neighborhoods. But he came on board, took on Police Practices perceived to be oppressive. He took on a Fire Department which, for a long time, had a lack of diversity in hiring practices. Coleman young was a pretty good mayor. When you look back on it, these were some tumultuous times. Likewise, Dennis Archer was a good mayor. The irony is they left the city in fair condition. It is the years 2010 to 2010, particular 2006 to 2009, that the mischief started. That exacerbated the demographic trend lines of people leaving the city. 250,000 between 2000 and 2010. The city went from 1. 2 million to 800,000. Declinetinued to demographically. When you have the mischief and defalcation of mayor kilpatrick, that exacerbated it. As one city councilperson told me, the white middle class began leaving with the great busing crisis of the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s. The black middleclass left in the millennium. Brian is it true that 40 of the street lights did not work when you got there . Kevyn that is absolutely true. When we first came in in march, we recognized that much of the work going on with the city, the detroit review commissions, which were supervised by the Governors Office and had already developed a wealth of knowledge about the status of the city. We pulled that together in the june 14, 2013 proposal for creditors. 600 million in deferred pension payments at an 8 interest rate. 18 billion in debt. If you look at the document, it is a compendium of the ills affecting the city. We did that so people would get a true snapshot of what the city was like. No one has taken issue with what we said. Brian what is the difference between detroit being 18 billion in debt and the United States having a debt of 18 trillion . Kevyn you look at gdp over debt service. 16 trillion. 18 trillion. E and, that is not a bad thing. A lot of money, certainly, in our lifetime. The gdp used to be in the singledigits. But is it manageable . Yes. Think of it this way. If detroit had taken 1. 5 billion in 2005, 2006, when the stock market went down 6700, and just invested in a Dow Jones Industrial index, the stock market is now trading three times what it was. They would not only have tripled their money, they could have paid the pension in full. And gotten back to the practice of giving pensioners a 13th check at the end of the year. It could have fixed itself if there had been sober management going forward, just like any organization in the United States. If you have strong and focused leadership, you can resolve the problems. But it takes a lot of effort. Brian in september of 2013, we were talking about Coleman Young, here is Coleman Young ii talking about you. [video clip] the people in lansing think they got you beat. They are sitting there, licking their chops. They do not know who we are. They do not know what detroit is. They do not know that detroit is the home of rosa parks, the woman who sat down so a movement could stand up. Detroit is where Martin Luther king first gave his i have a dream speech. Right here in this city. Detroit is the place where the first radio broadcast, the first road was built. We put the world on wheels. We made a soundtrack for a generation with motown in the city. Right here in this city. This is the city of detroit. Where the battle of the overpass took place. Where the five dollar workday took place. Where we led slaves north to liberation. Right here in the city of detroit. After all that, you think we are going to be beat by some governor, by a man who thinks we have gotten lazy . No no no, mr. Kevynn orr, the people of detroit are not dumb and lazy they are overworked and underpaid. Brian do you remember that . Kevyn i do remember that. Quite voluble. Brian what was he doing there . What difference does it make that rosa parks was there, that Martin Luther king gave a speech there . Kevyn everything he said is true. Rosa parks moved to the city of detroit after receiving Death Threats in the south. She was chosen by the naacp over some other candidates because she was trained and had the right presentation. I honor and respect my forefathers, including my grandparents and my father, who struggled so i could be here today. So i just want to be sure everyone understands i am aware of the long trajectory of history. From 1640, when john bunche was an indentured servant that was sentenced for running away to a lifetime of servitude, while his two other runaways, two white men, one was a dutchman and one was scotchirish, got an additional four terms. All three of them got 30 lashes, but he was sentenced to life in virginia. They think he is related to ralph bunche, the first black winner of the nobel peace prize. Im aware of my history. I understand the volubility of congressman young. And some of the emotions that occurred, being afraid there would be a takeover. But i would like to think that after they have seen the result, they appear to be quite well. The city is above projections. We have pointed out that some of that anxiety that was expressed, the invective directed personally, perhaps in reflection, was not well taken. Brian how did a white man get elected mayor of detroit with an 82 black population . Kevyn people sat down. I know both mayor duggan and his opponent, and i think of them as friends. I went to law school with mayor duggan. Mayor duggan originally moved to city to run for mayor. He got his papers in a day late. His opponents moved to get him disqualified from the ballot, and he was. The thought at that point was that he was really not going to run. That would have meant, in a city that typically votes democratic, his opponent would win. Cooler heads prevailed, and they asked him to have a writein. But during the writein campaign, some say theres no proof, but some say some members of the opposition went out and got a gentleman by the name of mike dugeon. Dugeon. Mike was a young guy, in his 30s. Had not been involved in politics before, but the cynical expectation was that a majority of voters in detroit would not recognize the difference between mike duggan and mike dugeon. But they did. They wrote in mike duggan, the white guy. And his opponents decided they would try to get him disqualified on the ballot count because it was a writein ballot. They sent it to the state. State did a recount and found out mike duggan won more votes in the original count. Thats why i was saying there was democracy in the city and Voting Rights at a high level. A writein campaign for the first white mayor in 35 years. This is a testament to the people of detroit. They put aside race and thought, despite what some people thought, who is the best guy with the best track record . Mike was ceo of dmc, Detroit Medical Center and built up. Who has the best record and probability for running the city . We think it is that guy. That is who they voted for. Brian when was the election . Kevyn in the fall of 2014. Brian big event in detroit not sure how old you were at the time 1967 Clarence Lusane talked about his involvement in this. Lets watch this. Fill in the blanks. [video clip] i remember vividly the 1967 riot, in part, began a few blocks from my house. My mother, father, and my sisters and i had been in canada. It started on a saturday night. We had spent all day in canada. People cross the bridge and go fishing. When we got back, there was a fullblown riot going on. I was probably 12 or so. Nobody was inside. At one point, my mother and sister and i walked out to the main intersection. There were hundreds and hundreds of people. After being there for a while, a car drove up. Two white men got out and fired at the corner. Everyone on the corner was hit. Probably about 20 people. Everyone was hit except for me. My mother and sister were shot. Brian 43 people killed, over 400 injured. What impact did that have on the condition you found detroit in . Kevyn the issue of racial division, some would say, is pioneered in detroit. If you look at government policy. And the board of realtors, the concept of redlining, was pioneered in detroit. If a black person bought a house in a previously white neighborhood, there was a red line drawn around the neighborhood. The bank would no longer offer conforming loans for the community. There was a study that shows the greatest transfers of wealth from the federal government has been with home mortgages to disproportionately white homeowners. The american board of realtors, if you sold a home and represented a black buyer, this issue was chronicled in the origin of urban crisis, which goes into stark detail about how none of this is by happenstance. It was quite virulent. A pharmacist who bought a house had to defend his household at gunpoint from white neighbors. That has been going on for a long time in the community. I was well aware of the legacy, the neighborhoods. 8 mile, the dividing line, is a stark contrast. 30 feet of asphalt, same side, same area construction, totally different issues. A lot of that over time had been designed to be that way. A buffer. The way it expressed itself to me was, number one, having lived through the 1960s. Having lived through watergate, a very tumultuous era, i did not want that to be the face of the city of detroit. There were detractors in the city trying to drive that narrative, saying we need to burn it down, riot. The year after ferguson, there were people saying we are going to ferguson these mfs. I sat down with each of the city one of the said, first things i will do is delegate authority back to the city council, and delegate back salaries and benefits. I do not think we should be in a partnership. , i do not care what you say about me i have a tough skin. Lets not destroy the city we love. Let us conduct ourselves in a dignified and honorable way, even though we disagree so that at the end of the process, we can always look back and say with pride, we behaved in a way that was admirable, we did not devolve into the behavior we have seen in other communities. Proud of the officials and residents of the city of detroit, that we did not take bait. Date we did not set the city back. Ofcould not drive the kind positive attitude we are seeing in the city if that had been in the narrative. First, you went there how many empty dwellings were there . 72,000of 320 or so were vacant. The real problem was not just economicity looked, or , the real problem is that 60 of the calls for health and safety are related to abandoned other structures. We are running firemen to fires that are totally unnecessary. It is all three of those things, they are not on the tax roll, they are not providing value in value. F appreciation in operations are down by requiring a disproportionate level of emergency services. Media,talk about foreign , letsera at the time watch what they were showing their audience. The u. S. Recession has hit detroit so badly that thousands of houses are being left to rot as residents default on mortgages, there are forced from their homes and move away. Once the house was vacant, the aluminum disappeared, the copper disappeared, the siding is all gone, the gutters are gone. There are thousands of these. A local estate agent explains the banks shove the houses back into a dead market. On this particular block, over 5060 of the houses are already in foreclosure. We are starting to see houses fall below 1000. Who owns all of those houses, and are they empty . X we did several things, first of all we created the land bank authority. Houses taken back from tax cloak foreclosures were taken back. Leadership of detroit, headed by dan gilbert, we chronicle lies with technology, each house in the city, and graded it by its condition. All of the dwellings have been put into a catalog of Housing Status so that we can make determinations on which should be demolished and which can be rehabilitated. The mayors team came in and an incubator on the west side of a webinar going section by section any city in the city. It is a large piece of land, we are going by and rehabilitating those homes and areas to get buyers back in. There is the ability to website there is the ability on our website to bid on homes. Certainly in 2009, that was a ray representation, things have happened since, home sales are up by 3. 9 , home prices are up by 30 . We are getting our hands on remediating structures in the city. Those things are well on the way, i am happy to reprint report we are achieving beyond the goals that we originally set. Do you have any relationship to them now . Citizen, i amate registered to bid on houses on the west side. Why would you do that . It is a great opportunity. In my career, i have been fortunate to work in other cities, when i left michigan, there was michigan law school, you remember trouble in paradise riotsble between the race , it started with the killing of a black motorist motorcyclist beaten to death. Asking why iked am going to miami. Since that time, some of the beach wasouth Retirement Homes or be down. Down for the race riots. There is a stadium on florida avenue, it is growing off the charts. Detroit has the same sort of feel. The Value Proposition is high, the opportunity cost is low. The lines we were looking for, are betterthanexpected. I think it is a great opportunity. What i see. Host what was your life like in florida . Guest the irony of the discussion is my dad was in the army. They had my out older brother in germany, they came back to Fort Lauderdale and they were turned away because of a segregated. I was born into segregation in the United States. In anther was born integrated hospital in germany, i was born in a segregated. She became a school administrator. She was interim chief superintendent. My dad was a minister. Dad, my granddad, and my dad were all ministers. Host why did you not go that route . Started getting into some law, as they young black kid, the county was divided by race and class and two railroad tracks. The white folks who were rich lived on the beach. The working white folks lived by the railroad and then there was the section with a black folks lived. I would visit my friends on the beach. It got to the point when the cops would follow me. It was lowgrade hassling. Senior ine i was a high school, i said, i want to be in attorney an attorney. Would not go into the seminary, i wanted to practice law. History. Is host detail the jobs that you have had. Kevyn i started with the florida firm, went into the fdic, the savingsandloan crisis hit in 1991. I went to rtc. Brian what is that . Kevyn that was the rates and loans. I always wanted to serve my country. Aspirations. Al i decided to go for two years. I told my mentor i would go for two years. He told me if i want to washington, i would never go back. I came and got involved, one of the people i have worked with, a rtc, i joined a law firm later on. Doctor . Brains. He has the i met her through a mutual friend in washington dc. I married up. She seemed out of my league, but i kept trying. Brian children . Two. Seven and nine. Of 2014 ovember while they were arguing to cut health care and stiff creditors, they were giving themselves raises, costing taxpayers more. 10,000 pages of invoices, we could not help those hand filed by jones day. These attorneys and professionals are on their honor when they said that these . This partner and his hourly rate was 825 per hour. Partner, her rate hour to from 600 an 675. Did you get a pay raise . Project, the time, 60 years of neglect and to get decay i would say there is value given. Brian i stumble through this, you are doing pretty well. Have you noticed a change in the way people look at you, we hear all of the country and about race, as you have done better and better, do people look at you do they get past the race . No, it depends, if i am driving home dress like this i will get a different approach than the cops that approached me , i woulds a teenager get hassled on the railroad tracks. Now, my wife and i, moved into our home in chevy chase, maryland. We pulled out of their subdivision, that night when it over. , cops pulled us they said, do you know why we pulled you over . Bowled left rear brake out, i had the bulbs in the glove compartment and show them. My wife and i were dressed casually with our son. For the next 1. 5 hours they sat there with a spotlight shining in the back. Running tags,ht, i know a little bit about police procedure. They were trying to find something on what we were doing. After a while i told my wife i was going to talk to them. She told me dont go, they will kill you. We had to process that, in our environment, coming out of our with my son, for no reason. It is troubling, there is a disconnect between people. Some people say, it cannot possibly be that bad. You look at the interactions in ferguson for instance, it was an integrated economic model to drive tax saturation on the citizens so they could increase their budget to drive further tax saturation. When good cops said this was unfair, they were told to shut up and write more ticket. Tickets. Ucb disconnect between the people who pay your salary, and there is no belief in the legitimacy of the ss process. Compared to the folks in baltimore right now, freddie gray was killed, a month later, 31 people died, two months later, 45 young black men were killed. This is all very sensitive stuff that we need to spend some time siphoning through, it has a real impact, people die. No matter who you are, or where obamae, as president said, if he had a son, he would look like trayvon. I am concerned for my own son and his life. They will see him as a little black and kid. Tell yourt do you nine year old daughter, what have you told them about this . Kevin boy i am going to have to have a conversation with my son, i have to tell him three things, how to diction, that is to let them know if something happens to him, something happened to them. I am an attorney, i will come after them with everything i possibly can. I love my child, just as you love yours. I have to teach them not to give a precedent the minute you temperate,ng that is it is disorderly. As the poor woman in texas, she ended up dead. We are fortunate in washington dc, we are very diverse. We have people of all colors intermarried. We go to play dates, our kids swim on a swim teams. On the swim teams. 14, somewherend uncle bob call and say why was that little boy over here again . Maybe he does not take you to the junior prom. Messages start coming in. Is, the happened friends they have known all of their life, they start falling off. Man, a conversation with a his daughter married a diverse individual. He said, i want to make sure you understand what is and to happen is going to happen. Both of us have to cycle through this. There are going to be people unhappy to see you, you have to be prepared. I also have to teach them the n word. The in word t like the kid at yell yale i talked about this with the other africanamericans in our community. Are we protecting our children to much . Too much . We do not want to infect them with racism. Whites the challenge that collar africanamericans have. Brian go back to the detroit you got peoplend to forgive 7 million in debt . How . Leadership. Eed certainly Governor Snyder provided leadership. You need talent, transparency, and cooperation. We set down at the bargaining table and told people we cannot pay you. It is math. It will not change. Let us talk about what we can do. There was help from the foundation community. The mediators came up with the bargain with state aid. Provideslators voted to 820 million dedicated to help Pension Funding so we preserved the Detroit Institute of arts. That was a breakthrough. A lot of cooperation and negotiations. People had good faith and works together to get going worked together to get it going. Brian you also built the hockey rink . Kevyn the city had three bond issues. Had a private placement regarding the exit facility. The Capital Markets are remarkably, for the most part, logical. Enterprise can pay as you go. Have somele to success with our debt. We can pay as we go forward. It was not easy. It was a good outcome. Brian how much attention to president obama give you personally, and to the issue . Kevyn the president s office and cabinet were front and center. Government was we convened in the fall of 2013 and there were over 60 participants. They told us this is what we can do to assist you with grants. , and thatat we can do continues. The white house has the detroit tax the task force. 30 millionck with in commitment from a privatesector factory two rubles rebuild in the city. It was helpful to have the federal partners there. We knew straight on, at the end of the day we would have to fix it ourselves. Ryan in the middle brian the mayor goes to prison, he is in oklahoma, the same prison the president visited. He will be there for 28 years if he does not get a pardon. How much do you blame him . To stay away tried from blame. There is enough to go around. Level a hundred 19 count indictment, i think they were able to account for 75 million that was taken. Some of the estimates go up as high as 200 million. Sure, all be, i am number of stories and recollections about that era. What i have tried to say is that existed, it certainly was not helpful. It was the wrong time. I have to move on beyond it. That was my job, i am happy to say we were able to get that done successfully. Brian when did you decide to go back to the law firm . Kevyn i took six months away, i looked at other opportunities. I came close to a couple of others. There is never going to be another law firm, i love it. It has been embracing to me. To look at other areas in terms of consulting, banking, it seems like the right fit. An international institution. Brian the law firm is couple of blocks away. What kind of power center is that . Evyn i am careful to shy away from that. There are so many people in washington dc that have done something somewhere, we still have living next Supreme Court , minorityclerks leaders are still practicing, we would like to think of ourselves as a fullservice International Law firm that does well. We have had notable successes over the past couple years of which we are proud. That entitles us to keep running hard, and make sure we can keep producing of outcomes. We are pretty much a workingclass group of people. We are doing ok. Our guest has been the emergency manager of detroit d3 each right, michigan. Now the city is out of bankruptcy. Thank you very much. Freencer four transcripts, or give us your comments, visit us at q and a. Org. The are also available at podcast. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer former commissioner, anthony that talks about Committee Relations and the practices used by his department. The Washington Post columnist covering his politics in the district of columbia. Also discussion of the book, the unwinding of the history of america. You can find these online at the cspan. Org. At