Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

What is not helpful is rhetoric the president has been using comparing republicans in congress over the iran nuclear agreement, to those in tehran dealing death to america. My view of this issue is, rather than this kind of christ political rhetoric, we should treat this with the dignity it deserves. What i have sent in the senate is it we are going to handle this debate in the following way. We will try to reach an agreement to have a specified amount of time to talk about it. Im going to ask every senator to be at their desk actually listening to what others are saying. Each senator will get an opportunity to speak and actually be listened to by other senators. This is an extraordinarily important issue for our country not only now, but in the future. Remember, the president will be gone in a year and a half, and the rest of us will be living with the consequences of this extraordinary agreement, which certainly has transformed the middle east. It certainly has. We are now entering into an agreement in which we are basically being asked to trust the biggest funder of terrorism in the world today, so it is appropriate to have some skepticism about the debate of this magnitude. Regardless of how the president talks about it, regardless of what his incendiary rhetoric is, we are going to deal with this in a respectful way, dealing with the facts surrounding the issue, and treat it with the dignity and respect that it deserves here in the senate. That was just some of what Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell had to a in the News Conference at the capitol. You can watch his entire remarks tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan two. On the next washington journal your phone calls and reactions to the foxnews news republican president ial candidates debate. After that, the u. S. Census bureau discusses of voter turnout and demographics. Plus, your Facebook Comments and tweets, all on washington journal, life at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. This weekend, on the cspan networks, politics, both in American History. Saturday night at 8 00 eastern on cspan, congressional profiles with four freshmen members. Sunday night at 9 00, when elections coming in october, we will show you a debate among the Fourth National id Leaders National Party Leaders in canada. Afterwards, Charles Murray argues through the use of technology, we can rein in the power of the federal government. On sunday, susan talks about the city and people of not snp japan from the moment it was bombed on august 9 two today. This weekend on American History tv on cspan three, we commemorate the 70th anniversary of the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki. We had a conversation with Harry Trumans grandson, and later we visit the American University atomic bomb exhibit with the universitys director of nuclear studies. Sunday morning at 10 00, our coverage continues with the 2000 documentary on the making of the atomic on bong, and leader interviews with atomic bomb survivors. Get details at cspan. Org. Next, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee holding a hearing on a read the report on Human Trafficking. This years report highlighted the hidden risk that workers could encounter when seeking a job. This is an hour and a half. Senate Foreign Relations committee will come to order. Before i move into the business at hand, i know the senate floor is closed today. I just want to say how disappointed i was in the president s comments yesterday relative to iran. I know that we have questions about the tip report and trafficking, and i wonder if because we have questions and concerns about trafficking, it throws us into a category of being bad people. I thought the president s comments yesterday relative to iran i just want to put things in perspective. Before we had a 190 Committee Vote here, the white house had a veto threat against us weighing in on the iran deal. A threat of until an hour and a half before the vote took place. Because they did not want a public debate on iran. Obviously the committee chose otherwise. We passed it out on a 190 vote, everyone here voted for it. But they did not want the issue debated. What the president did yesterday, by saying that senator cardin, a Ranking Member who has questions about the iran deal, senator menendez who has questions about the iran deal by the way, both of which voted against the iraq war environment if i remember correctly. Senator johnson u. S. Concerns about the ran deal. We are being compared to the hardliners in iran because we have concerns. Concerns that we are trying to have answered. Just a few months ago, the president publicly was talking about what a thoughtful, principled person i was. I have to get the quote someplace. [laughter] but now because i have concerns and i think everyone has concerns, people are going to have to make a decision. This is going to be one of the toughest decisions. But he is trying to shut down debate by saying those who have questions, legitimate questions, legitimate questions, are somehow unpatriotic. Are somehow compared to hardliners. And again, its to shut down debate. Its to make this about something other than arguing on the merits of the deal. Im very disappointed. I know senator cardin was meeting with the president last night. I do want to say, senator, i wish you had been here last night to hear the discussion. Wendy sherman said yesterday in banking she would come and share with us how that arrangement was working. I called her early this morning to ask her if she would at least, at a minimum, let us have her notes from when she was briefed by the iaea. And i am beginning to believe that one of the reasons they do not want people to know its not about irans confidentiality. I dont think it would stand the test of latenight comedy if people understood how things were being done. I just hope that today we thank sarah sewall for being here. The fact that we have concerns about trafficking, again, on a unanimous vote we voted to end modern slavery in this world. That somehow we will not be viewed as people who are unpatriotic. Be viewed as people that somehow are not serious about this issue. Today we are going to examine, recently released 2015 state Department Trafficking in persons report. This years report has attracted Significant Interest of the controversy over how tier rankings were made regarding certain countries including india, china, malaysia, cuba saudi arabia and mexico. We thank under secretary of state sarah sewall for testifying today so she can explain these rankings. If it is true that the administration politicized this report, there are questions about why they chose to significantly diminished a tool that has manifested in fighting slavery around the world. Were actually going to end modern slavery if were we need to take on the hard questions and work harder. How we make the tough calls matters. The integrity of the tip report matters for our countrys credibility when we speak up for the powerless and oppressed. The state department and our nation will be judged by how state Department Leaders make tough calls on the tip report s tier rankings. The behind doors ranking process only muddies the waters. Each year the tip report makes recommendations for progress and turns in a tailored action plan for our embassy. Rigorously applied tip action plans should inform the tough calls on tier rankings. In releasing the tip report 2015 secretary kerry said that bottom line, this is no time for complacency. I am not convinced. I hope i wont be criticized for this, or i will be ridiculed for this. Im not convinced that this report lives up to that statement. As many as 27 million human beings live in conditions of modern slavery. We need to be serious about this for their sake. With that i agreed to recognize our distinguished Ranking Member, senator carter, who i respect greatly. And the really appreciate his commitment, his longterm commitment to ensuring that , human rights are honored and that we deal with issues like this in a way that is full of integrity. Thank you. Senator cardin thank you for convening this hearing. In regards to your opening comments i want you to know, i think you have always been a thoughtful, principled person. I want you to know that, and i respect greatly your leadership on this committee and the matters of that we have been able to Work Together on. Senator corker hopefully if i disagree with you once you wont compare me to the hardliners in iran. Senator cardin im still going through the review process. I have not reached a decision on the vote that will take place when we return in september. I want to underscore a point that senator corker and i, working with our leadership, encouraged our leadership to provide for the debate on the floor of the United States senate that we think is befitting this critical issue. Yesterday, without any objection, we moved onto the bill. When we come back on tuesday we are not going to have to go through on september, we are not going to have to go through a cloture vote. We are not going to have to go through procedure hurdles. We just go to the bill. At that point i suspect the majority leader will put forward the bill that we will be voting on and we will be right on that debate when we return. And use that week, i hope, to debate this issue. And each member of the United States senate make up their own mind as to what he or she thinks is in the best interest of this country. I did not interpret from the president s remarks that he is challenging any of our independent judgments on this. You are correct, i voted against the iraq war. I do not see a comparison between this vote. The interesting thing just to make a sidebar on this i voted against the authorization for use of military force in iraq, and in my district my Congressional District it was overwhelmingly unpopular. Overwhelmingly. It was not a close call. It was one of the most consequential votes that i cast in my tenure in the house. And it was interpreted to have an impact on my reelection. This is not the case when it comes to this bill. There are divided views in this country on this issue. This is not a clearcut situation where the popular view is to support the president or to oppose the president. There are very strong views on both sides. Dont get me wrong. But that was a clear use that we are going to go to perforce, we are not authorizing the use of military force. I disagree with the president s interpretation on that issue. Having said that, i dont disagree with the president s strong statement. He clearly doing what we would expect the president of the United States to do. Show strength in his position and make a case to the American People. I dont join my good friend and principled leader in his interpretation of the president s remarks. One of the most important responsibilities of this committee is oversight. Weve passed a lot of laws, but are those laws being carried out in the way that it should . Todays hearing is an oversight hearing on an extremely important subject. We have a very distinguished witness today, our administrative spokesperson on this. She has a long, distinguished career in promoting human rights, and dealing with trafficking. I just want you to know that you have come to this committee was great credibility and we thank you for your public service. Trafficking is modernday slavery. We have a moral imperative to speak out against trafficking. It involves labor servitude, it involves sex trafficking, it involves financing criminal activities. The ilo estimates that it brings in about 50 billion a year for illegal activity. It affects children who are victims of trafficking. The number of victims are robbed of their future. The chairman mentioned in the high 20 millions. We have had estimates anywhere from 20 million victims to 36 million victims of trafficking. And they are victims. We of owe an obligation to deal with this. I am proud of the leadership in our country. Or a long time working with the u. S. Helsinki commission we took the leadership to develop not only loss in america, but to laws in america but to show , International Leadership in countries we now have special representatives. We have reports every year on trafficking. We share best practices. Why . Because of u. S. Leadership. Because of what we have done in this country. Quite frankl,y we celebrated this year the 15th anniversary of the Trafficking Victims protection act. It was an incredible accomplishment by this congress, and the United States, and leadership globally on the issue. As a result we have the trafficking in persons report, which is the Gold Standard. It is on my desk. I look at it before i meet with any representative from any country so i can go over there trafficking issue. And can make it clear, that if they want to have the type of relationship with our country they have to make fighting trafficking a high priority in their country. We take great pride in the leadership of our country. The 2015 report causes me concern. It causes me concern. I want to get answers today about the 2015 report. There are upgrades in this report that are hard to understand. I put malaysia number one on the list. Malaysia has a very serious problem of trafficking and labor. We know about it. We documented it. In this report, malaysia has been upgraded from tier 2 to tier 3 watch list. I tier three country eight tier three country is a country that does not fully comply with the Trafficking Victims persons act. And are not making significant efforts to do so. So what has changed between the 2015 report and the 2014 in malaysia . Well a couple things have changed. They have enacted amendments through their law but they have not carried them out. The number of prosecutions are ridiculously low on convictions. They have not implemented the new law. Just recently, beyond the window for reviewing this report, and mass graves were discovered. Theres another thing that is new this year. That is Congress Passed trade promotion authority. There is a concern whether that have an impact on malaysias upgrade. I hope it didnt. But i tell you, we talked about it before the report came out. I just hope that we are using objective standards. There have been reports that have been made that there were highlevel discussions that disagreed with the staff level representations. I understand the decision is made at a high level. But how much politics went into this . I hope zero. Because the tip report is the Gold Standard. I could talk about concerns in cuba, uzbekistan, and other countries as well. So mr. Chairman, this is a very important hearing. This committees make sure that the work we have done in this country, setting the global example in our commitment against trafficking, remains credible and always improving. Mr. Chairman, i have been working with my staff. Listen to todays hearings. Do we need to strengthen the Trafficking Victims persons act . Do we need to do things to have congressional direct oversight before you take a Country Office off of tier three . Cap we reached that point where we have to have a stronger law in this country . That is one of the questions that i hope will be addressed today so that this country can continue to lead in fighting discord of modernday slavery. The scourge of modernday slavery. Senator cardin, that is somewhat unusual. I think most people have gone home. We probably are not going to have a very full process here at the committee. I dont know if any other Committee Members want to make some opening comments. We dont typically do that but i appreciate the opportunity. I appreciate the opportunity because of the nature of the issue and interest i have had. I want to start off by thanking you and the Ranking Member for supporting my call for hearings. All the concerns and reservations that senator cardin has expressed are mine and beyond. Mr. Chairman, i would like to consent to enter some background documents on malaysian trafficking into the record. One from the malaysian bar association, one from the international ngo, and one is from the united nations. Without objection. Without objection. The trafficking information report is the u. S. Governments principal tool to engage Foreign Governments on principle cap on trafficking. We are here today because the integrity of this years report has been caused into question, and that means our nations commitment to our most fundamental principles has been called into question. Secretary kerry himself in an introduction tells us that justice is not just a matter of having the right laws on the book. We have to back those words with resources, strategies that produce the right result. That is true here. That should be our aspiration for the countries in the report. Sadly, i am convinced that this year we have not met that standard. Under your leadership mr. , chairman, Human Trafficking was one of the very first issues at one of our first hearings. The First Comprehensive piece of legislation reported from this committee. It demonstrated that it would be a priority for us. I salute you for that. Subsequent hearings in the house kept the issue at the top of our concerns. On the same day, that legislation passed the senate 990, the finance committee added my an amendment to prohibit fasttrack treatment for the worst human traffickers. The countries ranked tier three. That provision is now law signed , by president obamas part of the trade promotion authority. There could be no doubt that our fight against modernday slavery is a bipartisan, bicameral commitment. But several months ago, we began to hear reports both in the press and from sources close to this process, that this years tip report was under exceptional pressure to shape the rankings to meet with political demands not the facts on the ground. Im sorry to say that the rankings in this years report held up against the hard facts about Human Trafficking, and compared to the conclusions from the most respected and authoritative sources appears in many cases to be the result of external pressure. Not be independence and integrity we expected when we created this process. I look forward to the opportunity to ask questions. Senator johnson, are you good . Im fine. Senator corker our witness is sarah sewall, the undersecretary of state for security, democracy, and human rights, who was sworn in on their very 20th, february 20, 2014. She served concurrently as the special coordinator for tibetan issues. Over the previous decade, she taught at Harvards Kennedy school of government during the Clinton Administration she served as deputy minister of defense for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance. I want to thank you for responding to the invitation today. I think Everybody Knows we tried to get the regional and, because we felt like much of the pressure came from regionals to carry out a different agenda. We were unable to do that. But we thank you very much for coming in today, and representing the administrations view on this. We thank you for your service to our country, and obviously there is a lot of passion around this issue. We have seen firsthand the effects of trafficking slavery. We have seen young coeds or not coeds, young women who could be coeds here and our university system, we have seen them being sold into slavery and trafficked for sex. We have seen that. We have seen the effects on their families. We know what happens. We know what happens in brick kilns. We know what happens in rug manufacturing. These are human beings just like us. They are being deprived of freedoms. Every sensibility that any human being can care about is threatened by this. The fact that this possibly, for other agenda items our concern has been cast aside, obviously concerns us. Thank you for being here. You know you are representing the administration and none of this should be something that is directed at you personally, and as you can tell there is a significant concerns. Thank you. We look forward to your testimony. Undersecretary sewall thank you. Thank you for having me here today, and thank you for your leadership on this issue. I know that trafficking in persons, modernday slavery, is a significant concern for this committee, and i look forward to working with you closely to tackle this insidious crime in human rights abuse. The release of this years trafficking in persons report underscores the importance that the administration and secretary kerry placed on combating modern slavery. As noted by senator cardin, this year marks the 15th installment of the report, as the 15th anniversary of the Trafficking Victims protection act. The tvpa. The report itself reflects a year of dedicated effort to monitor persons, as well as other bureaus and offices, and our missions around the world. Working your route across yearround across offices incontinence the department , engages government and civil society. It collects data. It navigates local laws. Develops best practices and objectively assesses each governments efforts, including our own, to comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking in persons as established by the tvpa. In this process we assess the adequacy of local laws and we evaluate Government Actions to prosecute suspects, protect victims, and prevent further trafficking. Based on the country assessments, the tip report ranks countries and territories on different tiers in accordance to their adherents with the minimal standards outlined in the tvpa. These are complex criteria that require complex factual analysis. The tvpa delineates additional criteria for assessing governments. Let me walk through the four key elements of the minimum standards. The first three revolve around the adoption of adequate antitrafficking laws. This is seen as a critical hurdle for states because it establishes a comprehensive Legal Standard to effectively prosecute and penalize perpetrators. The fourth element of the tvpa minimum standards is whether a government has undertaken serious and sustained efforts to eliminate trafficking over the current reporting period. The tvpa provides 12 edition to build on the nonstandards. The writing process builds on ranking process builds on the minimum standards but also entails additional criteria pursuant to the tvpa. One fully complies. A tier two ranking indicates that a countrys government does not yet fully comply with minimum standards, but is making significant efforts to bring itself into compliance. By contrast, a tier two watch list country indicates that a country is also making significant efforts to comply with the minimal standards, but in addition it meets one of the tvpas following conditions. One, the number of victims is very significant. Two, the government fails to build on efforts from the previous year. Or three, the government failed to commit to making significant antitrafficking efforts over the next year. A tier three ranking applies to a government that does not fully comply and is not making significant efforts to bring itself into compliance. The tier ranking process live on further details cut such as the severity of the problem and resources and capacity. In most cases this clearly places Government Action into one of the tiers. In other cases, further discussion among Senior Department official is required to clarify information and assess the totality of government efforts pursuant to the tvpas criteria. This ultimately leads to the secretary of states designation of tier rankings to each country. It is important to underscore that the rankings do not affect assess the severity of the Human Trafficking problem in a given country. The rankings assess the governments efforts in addressing Human Trafficking problems over the current reporting. Compared to that governments own efforts in the prior year. And determination about the direction and quality of progress are guided by the complex criteria outlined in the tvpa and described on pages 4550 of the tip report. The rigorous and comprehensive annual assessment process is what makes the tip report the Gold Standard in antitrafficking assessment. It is one of the most effective diplomatic tools our government has for encouraging a Foreign Government to improve its antitrafficking efforts. The 2015 tip report, 18 countries are upgraded in 18 were downgraded. In the past, 15 were upgraded and 19 were downgraded in the 2014 report. There were encouraging trends this year. Portugal and the bahamas were boosted to tier one well others moved from the tier two watch list to tier two. There have been considerable focus on countries that moved to tier three. The democratic republic of condit condo, cuba uzbekistan. They moved to the tier two watch list. The department closely evaluated the efforts the government had made during the reporting. As well as the commitments they made for next year. We are already working with host governments to encourage them, four months into this next years reporting cycle, to implement the recommendations outlined in this your support. The tip office is finalizing Assistance Program ecstatic strategies to help make those of reality. Personnel are having dialogue with government officials about how to better prevent crime and protect citizens. Just yesterday the secretary discussed the importance of trafficking with the government of malaysia. The challenges are great, even for tier one countries like the United States. When i meet with trafficking survivors whether in uganda, albania, or india, i am reminded how crucial and how effective our work is. By prioritizing this issue the u. S. Government has already changed the lives of millions across the globe. Congress has played a leading role in this effort. From passing the tvpa to providing yearly resources to support the front lines of this global struggle. Though we can be very proud of the u. S. Effort and encouraged by the progress to date, we cannot rest until discord of the scourge of modern slavery is ended and all of its victims are free to choose their own destiny. Thank you very much. I think it would be helpful for all of us for you to explain your role, and explain how that differs from the undersecretary of Political Affairs. I think it would be good to set that context. If you want, maybe elaborate a little bit on the friction that naturally occurs between Political Affairs component and your role in ensuring the integrity of a program like this. Undersecretary sewall thank you for the question senator. The process that we undergo within the department engages many voices throughout the department. As i noted we work year round to gather and evaluate information that comes in and is processed through the tip office, as well as a variety of other departments through the bureau. The involvement of other officials would to the extent that there are different perspectives that are presented to the secretary for his consideration and final Decision Making on tier rankings and as with any reporting process and any state department the liberation there are a duplicity of views and the secretary take those into account when making his decision. Beyond that the department does not talk about internal deliberation. I guess by virtue of what you are saying there are sort of different equities at stake. Would that be true . Undersecretary sewall i think i have outlined a very complex process. There are often gray areas and a need for further analysis. As with any human right process, any state department process there are a multiplicity of perspectives. But at the end of the day i guess, further up the food chain, that decision is going to be made. In other words someone above is going to decide which equities to stress more, and ultimately someone at a much higher level will decide whether they believe someone should be ranked upwardly or downwardly. Is that correct . Undersecretary sewall the secretary of state is responsible for the tnt report. I think there is no one who would question the secretarys commitment to the antitrafficking cause. It is something that he avenged as a prosecutor. It is something that he carried with him as a senator and chairman of this committee, and it is certainly a strong and passionate commitment as secretary of state. I think probably in his view, he probably cares about that. I think the concern that we have here is that there are other interests that trumped this. Let me move into that. I am a strong supporter of tpp. I want to see the final elements. I am a little concerned about this last meeting and some of the things that are happening with intellectual property. But i think that certainly establishing a good agreement, a good tpp agreement, is worthwhile. I think it would go without saying that most of us are concerned that the upper ranking of malaysia had more to do with trying to make sure that tpp was entered into successfully than a care for people being trafficked. I think that is sort of the central reason we are having this meeting right now, along with cuba and a few other places. The administrations policies towards those countries tromp trump any real regard for humans being trafficked. We understand that obviously malaysia is passed along. What about the actual effect on people. I see very minimal its like eyewash affect on human beings and malaysia. Lets face it. But the outward about this. Many of us believe to use a rhetorical phrase you sort of through the trafficking piece under the bus to ensure that you are successful with tpp. I would like you to do everything you can at this moment. You have an audience. To allay the concern, and to talk to us about the number of people that were actually positively affected by this new criteria in malaysia. Undersecretary sewall thank you for sharing your views. I think it is important to note that the secretary himself spoke to the concern that you raised yesterday in malaysia. He conveyed that he had zero conversation about tpp relative to his decision about the tier ranking process. I hope that that can satisfy your concerns. Ill tell you what about my concerns. If you could just lay out undersecretary sewall yeah. That comments does nothing to allay my concerns. If you would tangibly explained to us how young women, 16 years old, trafficked for sex, are positively affected by the government of malaysias policies this year that cause them to go from tier three to tier two. Explain that to me. Undersecretary sewall im happy to talk about the process by which we apply the laws i dont want the process. I want you to explain to me how people, real life people, with parents, and brothers, and sisters, are affected by the governments actual implementation, and therefore cause them to move from tier three to tier two, which conveniently by the way causes the tpp process to work and away that works very well. Undersecretary sewall the tier two watch list criteria, pursuant to the tvpa law, means that a government does not fully comply within the minimum standards for elimination of trafficking. But that that government is making significant efforts to do so. And while malaysias tier two watch list ranking reflects the government commitments to amend its antitrafficking laws, the fact remains that the government has major work to do on its antitrafficking efforts. We will continue to work with the malaysian government, as the secretary began yesterday in malaysia doing, to urge the government to make continued progress. In terms of the application of the tvpa law itself, a key factor to highlight in malaysias upgrade, is the malaysian government efforts during the reporting. , as well as its commitment to amend its antitrafficking law in the year ahead. Which was of course the number one recommendation from the 2014 tipp report. During the reporting period the government addressed malaysias flawed trafficking regime. The government committed itself to passage of the law. We are encouraged by more recent progress on the amendment that occurred outside of the 2014 reporting period. But that were consistent with the commitments of the government made during the reporting period that have been made in moving the law forward. The parliament have made to the amendments and they will enter into force in the near future. In addition to this progress the malaysia government has increased antitrafficking effort in each of its key three areas. They increased the number of trafficking investigations by more than 100 , and they increase prosecutions by more than 67 . On protection they experimented with a modest Pilot Program, but nonetheless a Pilot Program, addressing one of our core concerns. Which was the ability of Trafficking Victims to leave government facilities in order to work well prosecuting pending cases. In the area of prevention, malaysian authorities undertook campaigns to raise awareness continued their efforts to publish informational brochures, and trained nearly 700 officials. Having said this, these are the reasons that factored into the tvpa criteria pursuant to the secretarys tier ranking. Those concerns are detailed in the report itself. We pulled no punches in terms of clarifying the extent and nature of the problem. We see this as the important work ahead for us, to work with the malaysian government over the course of the next year. I can detail more concerned, but they are fully documented in the report so i know that you have to be here today representing the department, and i know that you have to read the things that you just read. I would just say i dont think that any person in malaysia that has loved ones who have been sold into sex slavery would be very comforted by what you just said. But i realize you have to do what you have to do. I dont want to make any personal attacks. But if i could, i know you talk about percentages. The government convicted three traffickers of forced labor. 3. And one for passport retention. A decrease from nine traffickers they convicted in 2013. And you raised them from tier three to tier two based on those outcomes. This is a country that has massive trafficking. Massive. I have met young ladies in the philippines that were trafficked to malaysia, sold into sex slavery. I hope they are not watching this. The government convicted three traffickers for forced labor. And one for passport retention. And our state department, for that record, less than what they did the year before, a country that is one of the worst in the world. And we raised them. I dont see any tangible outcome. I listened to all your criteria, but im sorry. It just doesnt hit me in a place that causes me to believe that there was integrity in this upgrade. I would like you to respond and then i will move to the next person. Undersecretary sewall i think whether it is nine convictions or whether it is three convictions, in the case of malaysia, given the scale of the problem it is inadequate. The report makes that very plain. That is the basis on which the secretary would make a sole decision regarding the tier ranking. I have explained to you many of the elements that fit the criteria that are required for us to consider, under the law, pursuant to both the narrative the factual narrative in the book itself and pursuant to presenting any information for the secretarys decision. As you well know, the legislation is very complex. It asks us to weigh and balance a huge variety of factors. Not all indicators go in the same direction. The comprehensiveness of this report, and the fact that are contained in the narrative, i think are something that we should be very proud of, and something that we can continually use to try to achieve the very kinds of impacts on the grounds that you are talking about. Secretary kerry yesterday in malaysia raised this issue of prosecution. Offered to have the fbi help malaysia improve its investigatory capacity, because it is our understanding that that is a significant factor in limiting effective prosecutions. That is an example in the ways in which we use the report. We use the factual analysis to try to make real outcomes for people on the ground. I will reserve my questions my additional questions, for later. I would just say that i would think you would raise them up after they took him up on the offer of the fbi helping. And actually began to be serious. I know they began your task with a tough job today, and my heart goes out today. Senator cardin . The Trafficking Victims protection act is meant for the ratings to be based solely on the circumstances on the ground. As you pointed out, we evaluate all countries including the United States. It is not meant to have any considerations of political factors and other bilateral issues between countries. That was the clear intent of congress. I know that secretary kerry has reported that that was true in this case. And the perception here is to the contrary. It may require us to look at changes in the statute, to preserve the integrity of this report. Im going to ask you to provide to this senator ways that we can strengthen the law to make sure that those who are closest to the ground and understand what is going on, using international standards, have the most to say about how the rankings are done. Let me get to malaysia. I could go to other countries. What concerns me about malaysia and maybe you can give me other examples of where this has happened in 2014 we downgraded malaysias standing from tier two to tier three. We were pretty specific what we wanted them to do. You pointed out that the number one recommendation was to amend the antitrafficking law. That is what it is. That is the statement in the report. Have we ever taken a country off of tier three watchlist because they had pending, but not enacted, the changes we asked for in their law . Are there other examples where you can show us that after one year of being on tier three we said that they have made serious and sustained efforts significant efforts by proposing a law, not enacting it, and not having any experience as to how well that law in fact has been implemented. This was our number one recommendation. It seems to me taking them off of the tier three takes the pressure off and therefore, what guarantees that they in fact will follow up the law that we intended . Let me also mention a couple other factors that were in the 2014 report. We had prosecute trafficking offenses and convict and track punish traffickers. That was inadequate. They went from tier two watch to tier three, because they did not convict. Its called impunity. You may have laws, you may have prosecution, but if you cant convict people they walk and they know they can commit the crime. That is an example. In our 2014 report unacceptable. 2015, they go from nine to three. Where is that serious and sustained, and significant progress . You then list in your report to justify this, that they set up the government adopted a policy to allow unlimited number of victims to work with outside government facilities. My understand is that the program had four people participating in it. I dont even know why you listed it. It seems like you are trying to justify a result that is not there. Where am i wrong . What am i not seeing here . Undersecretary sewall let me answer a couple of responses to that. First of all, as you well know the report itself judges not the situation of trafficking or the severity of a problem per se. The report itself judges the governments efforts. It judges the efforts in a dynamic context. It judges the governments effort this year against the government efforts during the last reporting period. Part of the strength of the tvpa, in my opinion, is that it is an annual process. Therefore there is a constant reevaluation of all the elements that come into play. Evaluating the countrys efforts with regards to the minimum standards and the placement of a country on a watchlist. Now in the case of malaysia, as i said, i the report itself makes the very point that you made. It talks about the limited number of prosecutions and how that is a weakness. So they were on tier three because of that . Thats one of the reasons . They then get rewarded from tier three to tier two watch . Undersecretary sewall one of the things that i have learned from working with the trafficking in Persons Office is how the tvpa specifically requires the administration to look at a huge number of factors. You can always justify a decision undersecretary sewall we specifically look at all of these different pieces of information. They are in turn all specifically reflected in the report. I think youll see virtually in any country that we evaluate, to include our own country, criticism. Shortfalls. The ranking process needs to be understood as one that evaluates the governments actions compared to its actions before and it will be reevaluated in a years time. There are so many different elements that come into play that we include in the report both the criticism of prosecutions. We also include in the report, pursuant to the 3p requirement of the tvpa, where the government has made progress in other aspects. All of those go into the narrative process. It is that factbased, narrative process that informs the secretarys decision. I just call your attention to your own report, 2014. The recommendation section is not very long. It contains maybe 10 recommendations for change. I dont see progress in any one of the 10 in the 2015 report other than the recommended changes to the law that has not been passed yet. I look at your narrative here, trying to compare where progress has been made. I dont see if the reports mean anything, if the recommendations mean anything, but it seems to me they have to upgrade their tier status has to be based on concrete progress made on recommendations of the previous report. Undersecretary sewall let me explain recommendations. The recommendations for a given country do not reflect the steps that need to be taken in order to jump to the next tier. That is not the purpose of the recommendations. Our report aims higher. Our recommendations for each country ask them to stretch toward the minimum standard, and asked them to stretch in ways that would take them far beyond the next tier ranking. We ask for more. The recommendations are not linked to the next tier ranking, the recommendations are all of the different changes that we would like to see to be selling fulfilling the minimum standards related to the palermo protocol. That is what i would expect. But to upgrade a ranking, a tier, you would expect going from three to two, you would have significant efforts. You have to have that. Your recommendations for them to meet the minimum standards are spelled out in the 2014 report where they are rated tier three. I am going through those recommendations for action, then looking at your justifications in the 2015 report, and dont see a linkage between serious and sustained significant progress to reaching the recommendations that we put out here to justify an upgrade. Undersecretary sewall there are very few, relative to the number of countries in the world, that meet the minimum standards. I think that is perhaps part of the confusion. The minimum standards are something that we aspire to see all 188 countries move towards even those countries that meet the minimum standards, the report still requires that we ask countries to do better and that we measure them by their own progress. In the case that you are raising, specifically, of malaysia, i have articulated several of the different elements of change that the government made over the course of the last year, pursuant to the tvpa criteria that have a bearing on tier ranking placement. Those include both actions and commitments to address what was a key concern of ours over recent years pursuant to both of the law and treatment of victims. It also included concrete actions in some areas such as prosecution. There were positive steps in that regard. It is a complex equation with many factors. But i think what is really important is that in all cases we are asking countries to do more. Even in cases where countries meet minimum standards. As i have said, those countries currently meeting minimum standards are unfortunately still a minority of the 188 countries and territories we examined. I would ask that you give me an example of a country that was rated as a tier two to country going down to a tier three country in the following year. And then in the following year going from tier three back up to tier two, based on promises, not action. I think that is what you are saying. Youre promises, not action. I will just make this last point. And i would appreciate that information. Where you have seen that quick turnaround from tier three back to tier two, and i can tell you this. Once the spotlight goes down and it does once this report is issued they know they have another year. The chances of getting the type of action is just not there anymore. Based upon the tip ranking. That is a lot of pressure. Believe me. I cant tell you how many representatives of countries come in and complain about the tip report ranking. I say look, its a report. Heres what you can do. These are the minimum standards. We all can do better. The United States can do better. We know that. The purpose is for all of us to do better because we all agree trafficking is horrendous. In this situation when you can get an upgrade on the cheap and thats what it looks like by making a promise without action, it diminishes the strength we have of this report. If there are other examples please show me. Show me where you have gone through such a quick turnaround based upon promises, not action. That appears to be what you have in malaysia today in the way you did this report. Madam secretary, you were here in february before the committee. At the time, i said to you the trafficking and persons report we all recognize it is a significant tool in our efforts here. The chairman referred to the fact we have no ambassador at large in that role. I assume your answer to him is that you are personally going to protect the integrity overall. Especially in regard to intense political pressure in the building. Your answer to me was yes. Now, before you answer my questions, i want you to think about the following. Before you answer my questions think, if there was an inspector generals investigation or some other investigation, would your answers hold up in emails memos, letters, and any and all communications . With that in mind, i would urge the committee to seek all of the documentation created in the context of revising this years report. I am certainly not satisfied. I think based on this presentation, if that is not forthcoming immediately, my sense is the committee would take the unusual step of subpoena that information. This possibly is the most heartless, lacking of substance presentation ive ever seen about a serious topic. I do not see how anyone could believe there was integrity in the process. I feel for our witness and i know she has to come up. And do what she does. It may be the worst day she has ever had in her service to have to say the things she is reading to us now, but i would join in with others if that information is not coming, to subpoena that information. Because i think it should be done. Whatever you guys wish to do, i would join you. At least send a letter immediately, so if they are forthcoming, that is great. If they can be analyzed, this is the latest this had been issued, is it not . Sarah sewall there are a number of reasons but they include his travel schedule difficulties to make the time for that to happen. Let me ask you, what is the start and end dates . I know you have talked about the complexity of the calibration. Let me deal with things that are not so complex. What are the start and end dates of the reporting time covered by the tip report . Sarah sewall it runs through march 31 and it typically covers data from prior years. Where we have data. Sen. Menendez ok. So, the reality is one of the main justifications for the upgrade of malaysia you have testified to is the governments effort to introduce amendments to strengthen antitrafficking laws and provide Additional Support for victims. It is my understanding these amendments were not introduced april 3 and these were not approved by the Malaysia Parliament until june. Is that correct . Sarah sewall that is correct. I would refer you to the center determining tier three companies. One of the factors includes the determination the country is making significant efforts. Sen. Menendez offering amendment before they ever are introduced and before they become part of the law, even before implementation to suggest that commitment . Sarah sewall they made progress over the last calendar year. Sen. Menendez ive heard that answer before. Ann richard reaffirmed the 2015 tip report covers until march 2015, which means malaysias handling of the refugee crisis will only be reflected in the 2016 report. How is it you reflect things that happened after the report that are positive, but you will not reflect those things that are negative after the reporting time . It seems to me, you cannot have it both ways. Sarah sewall i would be happy to explain it. The law i was referring to specifically states countries making significant efforts to bring themselves in compliance based on commitments over the next year, if in the tier two watch list criteria pursuant to the law. It has us looking at commitment. Those are not necessarily the sole reason for a decision related to tier ranking. As i stated in the case of malaysia appeared a number of different elements are in progress to me made. Those preparing also in other areas factored into whatever decision the secretary makes. Sen. Menendez the upgrade was partially based on actions not even passed that were outside of the reporting period but you did not take into account the reporting in may, clearly those grades reflected many months of trafficking activity before their discovery. Let me ask you this sarah sewall we are very concerned about trafficking. Sen. Menendez it is not your concern i more it about. It is your actions are not your concern. When i presided over the hearing as chairman of the committee, i believed you were concerned. Now i am concerned about your actions. Not yours so much, but since you said to us in february you would be responsible, you know, i have to. It has been answered here that there were nine convictions for trafficking in 2014. There were three in 2015. That is a two thirds decrease in convictions that malaysia had over the reporting time. The tip report mentions a Pilot Program that allows victims to work outside of Government Holding the syllabus. Facilities. The answer to that is there were four. Four people totally who participated. You are telling us the upgrade was based on preliminary action on legal reform that took place after the reporting time on increased investigations that resulted in fewer convictions in a Pilot Program that granted a total of four. Sarah sewall the secretary signed off on the tier ranking relative to malaysia, because of his belief malaysia has taken the rights that to change. Those include a variety of factors, many of which i have enumerated. Other elements are deeply concerning. Which i have enumerated. The secretary says the rankings indicate there is still enormous improvement. It is not a golden seal of approval. Sen. Menendez i appreciate all of that but malaysia got what they wanted, to tier two, which happens to allow them to continue negotiations and have preferential access into the United States market, assuming they actually conclude successfully being a part of the tpp, which, under my amendment they would not have qualified, they could have been negotiated with. Here is what the groups on the ground tell us is actually happening in malaysia. In a press release, any upgrade of this juncture would be a hollow victory. The lives of untold individuals bear testimony that malaysia has yet to earn any upgrade. The uns special repertoire in trafficking in june of this year in referring to the same time covered by the 2015 tip report said the rate of prosecution of trafficking cases also remains very low, which perpetuates the impunity of traffickers and obstructs access to justice. David abramowitz of the alliance against slavery and trafficking said recent press reports recommend kerry take a principled stand by concluding the government of malaysia is making significant efforts, it is simply not sustainable. I could go on of the universe that has a different view. I have questions about cuba and i hope there will be a second round. Sen. Corker i have no objection to you continuing. I want to move to india. Think everyone in the audience pretty well understands why malaysia was upgraded. I am not sure i understand what competing equities were on india. I think we have established what happened with malaysia. I think there will be further investigations that will occur but i do hope we get to india. It is hard to understand how india could possibly be a tier two entity, i hope the secretary will explain to us what competing equities were there. If you want to go on with cuba for a moment. Secretary kerry announced you have a primary supervisor responsibility for it. According to an article published monday, the tip office disagreed with the Diplomatic Bureau on 17 rankings. Representing the worst ratio in the tipping report. Is that accurate . Sarah sewall we do not comment on internal regulations. Deliberations. The reporting done the state department was thorough and factbased. Sen. Menendez it seems to me that it at least confidentially should be transmitted so that if in fact the article is true, that out of 17 disputes that the tip office supposedly said his these countries should not be elevated, that they lost 14 times, the worst ratio if it is true, that is Something Congress should know. Sarah sewall the department does not comment on internal deliberations. Sen. Menendez when did you begin to engage with cuba since we did not formally establish relationships until after march 31, 2015, the end of the reporting period . Sarah sewall let me get that information. Cuba sent two to participate in a Leadership Program in june of 2015. This is the first time any government of cuban officials participated in the program and participants learned about the u. S. Perspectives on the problem and observed how we site trafficking in person. Sen. Menendez so that was an informative process. Sarah sewall over the course of the last two years, the department has begun sharing information with cuba, asking cuba for information regarding its antitip measures. The significance of the engagement cannot be overstated, which is to say we previously had no information from cuba at all on the trafficking situation in cuba and now we receive information from the government. That has enabled us to provide more concrete sen. Menendez the providing of information is sufficient sarah sewall no. Sen. Menendez let me ask you this, did the ustr of the white house communicate to urge a specific outcome in any of these rankings . Sarah sewall not to my knowledge. Sen. Menendez let me ask you this. Serious concerns about politics having influenced the decision to upgrade cuba. There has been no progress on issues of force labor. We all know the castro regime is complicit in nearly all cases. The cuban government prescription thousands of doctors, including combating ebola in africa. In addition to the fact the regime grabs 70 of the wages paid by the World Health Organization to ebola medical mission participants, there are more troubling considerations that did not make the tip report. For example, the madridbased News Platform reported cuban doctors were forced to list the cuban government and not their families on provided Life Insurance policies. The two of the 2015 tip report states that cuba is a sourced country for adults and children. Many children in cuba are second or Third Generation and in some cases as young as four years old. In a country with virtually no reporting data on Human Trafficking, the willingness to allow International Human rights organizations or ngos to conduct investigations, how does the state department measure progress . How can you help us understand how the administration quantifies any advantages, given the restrictions provided by cuba today . Sarah sewall you are right. We remain concerned about labor trafficking in cuba. Where we have seen change in cuba is on the question of sex trafficking. The condition of sex traffickers the conviction sex traffickers have been significant in the context of cubas history and the region. The provision of services to sex Trafficking Victims is something positive that we have seen on behalf of the cuban government. They have provided training to recognize it. Sen. Menendez given the fact the castro regime takes 70 of wages to doctors, Life Insurance policies over to the government and in many cases, passports are taken away so they cannot flee did the state department consult with the World Health Organization about those incidents . Would you get that back formally for the committee . Mr. Chairman, i will not go on. I will close by saying, i took to heart what secretary kerry said when he released the report. He said, we have to be true to the principle that although money may be used for many things, we must never ever allow a price tag to be attached to the heart and soul and freedom of a fellow human being. I do not know if we did not pervert the lofty goal by a report that clearly seems to me has been politicized in a way that is not justifiable and cannot be justified. I look forward to continuing to be engaged with the chairman in this matter. Thank you. I deeply appreciate your sincerity on the issue here as a champion for human rights. I just want to say to the secretary, im putting you on notice. Any destruction of emails or letters from 11 19 a. M. On could have significant consequences. I know we will discuss how we go forward and trying to understand what has really occurred here i think it is an understatement to say the testimony does not cause us to have a lot of faith in what is occurring. I would say again, the administration is not serious about carrying out issues of this type. I think certainly with other issues before us, certainly, it creates concerns. Think we understand what happened with malaysia. Talk to me a little bit, if you can, in india, it is an amazing thing. As i understand it, the government of india seized passports of Trafficking Victims and families who were issued t visas, reserved for Trafficking Victims by the u. S. In other words, were trying to get Trafficking Victims here to safety. We understand the government of india seized their passports. Tonight International Travel to others. Can you tell me what the internal rubs would have been in the department . In other words, i think if we fully understand with all asia that would have caused the department to not need any death be anymore pursuant on india . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Indias tier two ranking indicates it does not fully comply with minimum standards but is making efforts to do so. The significance of those efforts, relative to training of prosecutors and judges, and launching upon the order of the supreme court, to trace the whereabouts of lost and abandoned children, including potential Trafficking Victims, we remain concerned about the t visa issue. It was in february, july of 2014 the government of india began confiscating the passports of nationals that had received, as you noted rightly, these were provided by the u. S. Government to Trafficking Victim family members. These were the key derivative visas. I court has ruled in favor of petitioners that had had passports confiscated. They cited a violation of the rights guaranteed under the constitution. The government has not appealed the case. The actual disposition of the case is affected by the policy and remains pending at the close of the reporting time. This is a concern and one we repeatedly raised with the indian government. I will not ask any more questions. It is clear that until we get into internal documents, we will never know what truly is at hand here. I gave a speech on the floor which i rarely do. Nothing happens on the floor that matters most of the time. Speechwise. I went down, i know there is a lot of discussion right now about the president ial races and anger the American People have at the u. S. Government. Some of the anomalies taking place, people were making comments about certain candidates and why theyre getting traction on both sides of the aisle. It was a time when we passed the highway bill, when, in essence we engaged in generational theft, where we basically took 10 years of spending and three years of payout and created all of these gimmicks because lets face it, congress does not have the courage to deal with the issue headon, i said, this was exhibit a as to why americans are so upset with the government. To anyone watching this, they would have to say this is like exhibit a plus. That is why americans should be upset with government. It is a reflection on us. What were hearing today is a reflection on us. I am very disappointed in the testimony. I do not want to take it out on the person who has been thrust in to having to read these comments. I hope we will take action here. This is obviously not something that reflects the great nation that we are. I do not think anyone listening to this could think america is really serious, at least at the state Department Level regarding trafficking and persons. I know we have a new person that has been nominated that i do think cares deeply about the issue and potentially could bring about some balance here, i think we could see that the political side, and otherwise, the expedient things for our country, especially involving money, money, those things sort of won out in this process over the human side. But i am disappointed and i do hope, i will not say anymore for regretting going over the top. I will not do that. But i do think we could all see we have created something here that is not working properly. This process to me has been extremely inappropriate, especially this year. I look forward to working with you and others on this committee to try to figure out a way to rectify something that has gone amok. And pulling back some balance here, so we ensure human beings lives at least come into some kind of balance relative to other equities, if you will, that our government has. I want to thank the witness for the willingness to come here. I will not ask any more questions. I realize i will get bureaucratic answers that do not really get to the essence of what the problem is. If i might, the tip report is a valuable report. The rankings have incredible significance, not just in the spotlights of shaming nations to do better, and that is an important factor, because it is not what you want to be on a watchlist or tier three. It also has financial implications, implications on our federal partnerships. And it has ramifications on private companies and their participation economically. It is a very important tool. Countries hire lobbyists to try to influence this country. And things such as tip reports. It is one of the reasons why i am particularly concerned about the 2015 report. Let me sort of underscore the point. Whether politics played a role or not in the determinations the perception is that it did. It will be a much more open season to try to influence tier rankings through the political process. That is not good. If the report is accurate, and i do not know if it is not and i will not inquire further of our witness on this, but if the objective keepers were overruled a Record Number of times by those more politically engaged in other issues with countries that also undermines the confidence this report will be done in the future based upon the objective standards in the statute, which has been why the which has been why this report has been so valuable. I come back to the point that i believe we need to revisit the statute. Im afraid to take away some of the discretion at the higher levels of the state department. Looking at making sure there is a more objective analysis on how the reports are done. Putting more transparency on the interaction so we have a more accountable system for how those decisions are made. I regret that. I am not repaired to reach a conclusion other than to say there is a perception out there that the standards and statute played a role. That is not healthy for the future of the report. My interest is to protect the integrity of the report. It is one of the great horrors of current times. Anything we can do to combat trafficking, we need to be aggressive in that area. Senator menendez, you want to say anything in closing . Senator menendez i want to thank you for letting us have this venue. The emails and phone conversations, we may reach a conclusion that the process was full of integrity. That is not my thinking today but i will await all that information coming to us. I want to agree with the Ranking Member. I dont know exactly what actions we need to take a read i know what ever we take, we will do so in a way that is bipartisan and seeks to have integrity in this program. Certainly this meeting raises Major Concerns about whether this is something that has run amok. Sometimes around here, lets face it. One companies and countries realize they can affect the process to benefit them financially, lets face it. Loving occurs. Not just in congress but departments. We need to make sure we understand this fully. I hope voluntarily all the information relative to this will be forthcoming. I look forward to following up with the secretary in one form or another. The record will remain open until monday afternoon for people to ask questions. With that, would you like to say anything else in closing . I think americans can be proud of the report. It has made a difference for millions of people around the world and will continue to. I is an american and pleased to be part of it. Im glad we have made a difference in so many lives. Senator corker the meeting is adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] on the next washington journal, your phone calls and reactions to the fox news republican debate. After that, the u. S. Census bureau and footer turnout from Congressional Elections since the 1970s. Plus your Facebook Comments. All on washington journal, live at 7 00 a. M. On cspan. Tomorrow, a briefing on medicaid and housing policy. The first in a threepart series. Following the law zeal bill deblasios initiative on health and homelessness. It starts at noon eastern on cspan. Sunday night on qa and day the former emergency manager of detroit talks about detroits Financial Issues and his job overseeing the largest bankruptcy in municipal history. If detroit had taken that, when the stock market had gone down, and it had invested in an index fund, it is trading almost three times what it was. Not only would they have tripled their money, they could have pd pensions in full and gotten back into the business of giving pensioners a 13th check every it could have fixed itself with a sober management, just like any organization. If you have strong leadership and focused leadership, you can resolve these problems. It takes a lot of effort. Sunday night on q a. Next, politicos playbook breakfast. Current policy, politics, and news. This is 45 minutes. [applause] thank you very much for coming in. Secretary mcdonald it is a pleasure to be here. Mike we have va employees across country. Maybe you should say hi. Secretary mcdonald they do a great job taking care of our veterans and there is no higher calling. A number of them are veterans caring for veterans, or as i like to say, heroes caring for heroes. Mike you were at the top of the corporate world and people at the v. A. Hq knew things would be different from the first day. A little disruptive. Talk about the conversation in the elevator. Right when you got the job. Secretary mcdonald at the time i was nominated, i was going back and forth to capitol hill with senators, making sure they knew what i wanted to accomplish. I was in the elevator on the which my opposite. I saw a gentleman there and i said, hows it going . I like to talk to people in the elevator. He said, im breathing. I said, well, i am kicking ass and you better be, too. I just felt that we were not providing good service to veterans and all of us need to be kicking ass to provide better service. Mike you were in the job for a year and we appreciate you marking it with us. One of your innovations has been my va, bringing the Customer Experience mindset to serving veterans. How is it going . Secretary mcdonald we are in the beginning. As we speak, our Leadership Team is offsite working with noel. He is a dear friend at the university of michigan. He was jack welchs mentor. We are working with him. It is the longterm transformation we need at the a. Strategies. Number one, put the veterans first. We are learning about Customer Service, the very best Customer Service organizations in the country. People like disney, starbucks, others. Number two, we have to do a better job taking care of the employee. There is not a good Customer Service organization in the world that does not care for its employees. You have no hope of caring for the veteran if you do not care for the employee. We have not done a good job at that. Number three, our internal support services. Our language is in cobol, a language that i wrote back in 1973. It looks like green screen ms dos. We need a culture of continuous improvement. We are training so they can lead the change in the systems that they work on and last but not least, number five, we are creating strategic partnerships. There is tremendous goodwill out there to care for veterans and were trying to embrace that. We are in the midst of our summer of service. We started with 75,000 volunteers. We want to get up to 100,000 volunteers. Theres another ethical reason for this as law, we are not allowed to care for 15 of veterans who got less than honorable discharges. Chuck hagel, ash carter are looking at all of those discharges to see if they should be reevaluated. In the meantime, we need those external partners because we want those veterans cared for. Mike if you are watching us and live stream land, tweet us your questions. We will ask your questions. What was the very best tip that starbucks gave you about Customer Experience . Secretary Mcdonald Howard schultz is a dear friend. Mike is he going to run for president . Secretary mcdonald i dont know. Im not a political person. My Political Party is veterans. All i do is think about caring for veterans. Howard, in his book onward, he writes about his experience of when he came back to be ceo any when he walked into one of his stores and the smell of the place was burned cheese rather than coffee. Appetite has a lot to do with scent. They introduced a breakfast sandwich. The cheese would melt in the oven and the smell would pervade the store. Rather than try to convince him to buy febreeze, i think what that instance demonstrates is the importance of the ubiquity of experience. What we have got to do is make sure every veteran we touch feels the warm embrace and the ubiquity of it. Whether it is the music we play, the way we meet, greet them at the door, whether it is the starbucks we have in our facilities where they like to meet with their buddies, men or women. Its that 360 degree ubiquity. Mike what did you learn from disney . Secretary mcdonald i think with disney, the importance of the cast member. They do a great job taking care of their employees. They call them cast members. And the importance of the knowledge as you leave the disney area, you are on stage. This is actually replicated in our new orlando medical center. We have all of our exam rooms on the periphery and our patient care teams meet in the middle. We have a unique system we used to care for veterans, patient care teams, so its not just the primary care doctor, but the other people who work with the primary care doctor and they are all inside this area, meeting before they go out on stage to be with the patient. Mike the v. A. Leader reembracing the customer. You have met internal resistance. Secretary mcdonald it is natural, mike, when an organization is in crisis, the natural response is to turn inward. You stop caring for your employees. You forget about the customer. The leaders job is to go into a situation like that and be disruptive, but be disruptive by going external. I have been to 190 v. A. Sites. I meet with the leadership, the union leadership, the stakeholders. Because im going to know what is going on and use that input in the transformation plans. Mike you have a problem. In the best case scenario, obama will be gone in a year and a half. How that affect this organization . Secretary mcdonald people say that. I do not know i will be gone. I not acting like i am going to be gone. When i came in and we put together strategies. One was rebuild trust, improved metrics, but the third one was to do the right thing for the longterm. My v. A. Is all about that. I bring private sector expertise in. I always marry them with someone in the v. A. , so if we go, there will be someone who understood understands. Mike i asked one of my colleagues who is a veteran what should i ask the secretary secretary mcdonald any name . [laughter] i like names. Thats why i give out my cell phone number. I like to talk to veterans. Mike he pulled a reverse Lindsey Graham and gives his real cell phone number on cspan. Secretary mcdonald yeah, sure. 5138098454. Mike innovative young reporters are dialing that secretary mcdonald i look forward to talking to them. I did that for a couple reasons. I did that deliberately say to the organization to let them know that i was available. Originally they were about i need help. Now they are you changed my life. We were led by a very capable lady named debbie. This is not the Sustainable Way we want to care for people. We have hired an officer, tom allen, who has over two decades of experience at mcdonalds. And he is helping us. We have set up an external advisory board. One of them is fred wayne who wrote a book called if disney ran your hospital. He is helping us as well. Mike going back to your days at west point, always let your soldiers eat before you do. What is the government analog to that . Secretary mcdonald i think the government analog is to put the needs of your organization above yourself. I will not ask anyone in v. A. To do anything i would not do myself and i will work as hard as they do, if not harder, to demonstrate to them they are more important than me. Similarly, i am going to fight for them. If someone does something wrong, we will take disciplinary action. On the other hand, were not going to get involved in the politics of the situation. We will keep focused on veterans and we will fight for our employees. Mike what about congress . Secretary mcdonald what about congress . [laughter] congress has a role to play as well. We Work Together to identify what the needs of the veterans are. I do not have much tolerance for using veterans as political pawns. Mike do some members of congress do that . Secretary mcdonald that is for you to judge. Im about caring for veterans. Mike my colleague said to ask you about the immensity of it all. The v. A. Is the Biggest Health care system that cannot get its head around obamacare insurance. Secretary mcdonald the v. A. Would be a fortune 10 company. The Procter Gamble company when i was the ceo had 120,000 employees and sales of about 85 billion dollars. It is a large organization. As i studied it, this Country First of all, veterans cannot do without the v. A. American medicine cannot do without the v. A. And i would argue the American Public cannot do without the v. A. Members of congress have said to me, why dont you blow up the v. A. And give out vouchers . It is a strong three legged stool. Leg one is research. Three nobel prizes. Who did the first liver transplant . The v. A. Who invented the first implantable pacemaker . The v. A. Who invented the nicotine patch . V. A. Who knows about posttraumatic stress . I could go on. I wont. We train 70 of the doctors in this country. Who will train them . We provide the internships. We are the largest employer of nurses in the country. This work and training is very important to the american medical system. The third leg is, of course, the clinical work we do for our veterans and omar bradley set this system up in 1946, 1947 and aligned the v. A. With the best medical schools in the country. Our veterans love the care that they get at the v. A. We are making it more accessible. Mike lets talk about the patients. What is the average age and income . Secretary mcdonald you raise an excellent point. In 2014, if i asked you, what do you think caused the crisis at v. A. In 2014, most americans would say was probably the fact we have been fighting wars in afghanistan and iraq from within for more than a decade. My Business Analysis says that is not the case, but its instructive. The year i graduated from west point in 1975, we had 2 million veterans over the age of 65. 2017, we will have 10 million veterans over the age of 65. Thats a five times increase from 1975. So, what actually occurred is the aging of the veteran population, which put tremendous stress on the system. This is happening in u. S. Medicine. But its happening slowly and is less visible. My point excuse me lets meet finish with this thought. We have to build the capability today we will need 20, 30 years from now with the afghanistan and iraq veterans who age. If we do not build that capability today, we will not have it. Mike what is one stat about your current demographics . Secretary mcdonald believe it or not, we are still serving about 100 descendants of the spanishamerican war. My point is, it does not go away. The war does not end. V. A. Does not become inessential. The way you look at v. A. , you have got to think about 20 or 30 years hence. We have a sacred obligation to be veterans who fought the wars in this country. That sacred obligation is for their life. The army likes to say, a soldier for life. That is the way we think about it. Mike your staff gave me some stats and facts about how the v. A. Has improved in the last year. And everyone in this room knows this is one of the most troubled departments in government. There were a lot of problems. Which peaked before your time secretary mcdonald march 2013. Mike the day that you walk in there was 269,000. Have you get to zero . Secretary mcdonald we continue to follow the same strategies. We need to build on top. Digitize the process. We got rid of five tons of paper. Everything is digitized. We are doing great work with our veteran service organizations. When we get the claim, it is ready to be processed. The other things we have done in terms of digitizing the process is creating the Computer System that allows us to do it in an automated way. That allows us to move those claims around the country depending on which of our centers have capability. The other thing we have done, we have asked our people to work mandatory overtime and this is the part i dont like. We have had employees working mandatory overtime to process these claims. The average time weight now is less than the 125 day standard. We are trying to get out of that. The problem is, we have more people in the budget. Most recently in the choice act, we had more people in the budget for accelerating these claims and when congressman to pass the choice act, they stripped these people out. Were back with the 2016 budget asking or more people for the claim portion. They are having people work from so the two hours they used to commute, they can do claims instead. Mike questions from twitter. Playbookbreakfast. Is the secretary aware that 35,000 combat veterans are incorrectly listed because of a means test . Secretary mcdonald if the individual would give me their name, i would be happy to figure it out. Usually you get those claims and accusations when someone has an issue. Customer service is about oneonone care. Mike so, email or tweet secretary mcdonald or you have my phone number. [laughter] mike what role does telehealth play in increasing access for vets. Secretary mcdonald yeah telehealth is huge. We are the leader in telehealth in the country, perhaps in the world. Telehealth is basically using broadband and Digital Technology to deliver health care as much as possible. For example, i was in one of our facilities and the nurse i was with, nurse practitioner, had a stethoscope that was connected with the wifi and the internet. She was taking my pulse, listening to my heart, and that was being read across the country. That kind of thing is possible. It is something we are doing already. Another aspect of that is Mental Health, doing Mental Health appointments in telehealth providing the confidentiality and security a lot of veterans like. So, we like to use it for Mental Health as well. Mike just a minute, we will bring you into the conversation if you have questions. This is a question from my colleague. Secretary mcdonald, you expressed confusion about the blue button initiative. Do think the v. A. Needs to change the name or get other steps to get Patient Engagement and improve their care . Secretary mcdonald i was not confused. I was talking to a group of people working on her electronic vehicle records, opensource and open system. We want crowd sourced innovation. The blue button is a device on our website where you can click there and get your entire medical record. My only point was, sometimes we pick names that are confusing to consumers. If i went to a veteran and said, what is blue button, they would have no idea. I websites have unusual names. Even if it ebenifits. Lets look at everything from the lens of the customer. Lets make our decisions that way. Make things easier. Heather has a question for you. Lets try to get a microphone. While we are doing that, you went on 60 minutes and they asked you, is the worst behind you . I will ask you, what is the worst problem that remains at the v. A. . Secretary mcdonald as you approach these targets we set and homelessness, the claims backlog, gain access to care it is such a large system, you always have one left. How do you get every single person. It is the starfish story. The old man throwing the starfish into the sea. He may not be able to clean up the whole beach, but it matters to each throw fish he throws in the water. I need to clean up the beach. If there is one homeless veteran, that is one too many. That will be on your watch . Yes. Mike hello, heather. Thank you for your extraordinary leadership. [indiscernible] scheduling was a pillar we talked about. Im curious as to secretary mcdonald scheduling is a really big issue