I know a woman being accused and she said she is accused wrongly and her entire career is in jeopardy because of this and she feels as if she has not been given rights. Thats about how we address that issue. Ms. Napolitano we are actually looking into that right now. Had we make sure the system is fair to both sides. When i look at the litigation that has been filed against the university of california about half of the cases have been filed by survivors and half by respondents who say they were not treated fairly. There is a lot of controversy in this area. One of the issues we are looking at is do we provide or what kind of support do we provide to a respondent in addition to a complaint . Right now, we provide support to the complainttant. Sen. Cassidy it should leave the University System and go to a civil court because that is the only way you ensure you get fair treatment for both parties as i understand. I am looking at 41 if that is true, it tells me that for a sizable minority the universities, there is inadequacy of approach whether it is for either party. Any thoughts about that . Ms. Napolitano if you made it mandatory that these cases go into civil or criminal court that would be a deterrent to complaintants coming forward at also i would because shes about any sort of mandatory referral process. Sen. Cassidy we will resume shortly after votes have ended. Thank you for your testimony. I cannot thank you enough. Sen. Collins the committee will come back to order. Contrary to my expectations although the chairman has returned, he has very graciously agreed to allow me to continue wielding the gavel. I am feeling extremely powerful. Until such time as i have to leave and he will resume his rightful place. But i think senator alexander for his courtesy on an issue that matters a great deal to me. Senator bennett, we have left with your being next. Sen. Bennet thank you, madam chair. And thank you to the witnesses for being here. Ms. Bolger, thank you for your testimony. I wonder if you would touch on your mandatory referral laws and how we should think about that. Ms. Bolger thank you for the question. Are you speaking about mandatory referral laws to the police . Sen. Bennet yes. Ms. Bolger that is a wonderful question. I get asked all the time i campuses are dealing with this in the first place. I think that is an intuitive question but the reality on the ground is that survivors tell us again and again that were there reports forced to go to the police that they would report to no one at all. Nine and 10 survivors told us that if the reports were turned to the police without their consent, they expect fewer victims to report. If we are serious about reducing violence on our campuses perhaps counterintuitively, the best thing to do is empower survivors with the right to decide who receives their reports. Sen. Bennet you used such a great turn of phrase. Reality on the ground. Other other things we should be thinking about that might be counterintuitive or not but in terms of the reality on the ground as we act in a wellintentioned way but in a way that could be counterproductive . Ms. Bolger a wonderful question. The first thing that comes to mind as we are hearing a lot on College Campuses about Sexual Assault and how schools need to take it seriously and that is true and i think that is starting to happen. I think there is a real gap between responding to Sexual Assault and responding to other forms of genderbased violence. Im talking about dating violence intimate partner violence, stalking. The new component of the cleary act will allow schools to report incidents of Domestic Violence and stalking. It is quickly important that schools address his issues in their policies. Policies for dating violence survivors can look difference then Sexual Assault survivors. Not analyzing survivors from the same class in order to get a restraining order, things like that. Sen. Bennet are you or anybody else aware is very designation somewhere of universities that have set the Gold Standard for dealing with Sexual Assault and Sexual Violence on campus . Is there some standard that students have established or Community Groups im just want to think about where we would find the best practices if we were looking. Probably the university of california, i am sure but where else . Ms. Napolitano we aspire to be the Gold Standard but we know we have more work to do. Every campus in the u. S. Recognizes that. I think we certainly have taken this on as a major issue for our students and for our Campus Community. Ms. Flounlacker you raise a really important question and it speaks to the section of the cost of legislation for a Grant Program, which we think is really important particularly focused on more research on better awareness and prevention, which i think our schools are engaged in but we need more of it so we can identify better best practices. Everyone can agree with that point. In an ideal world with the Grant Program and the legislation, we would go on a dedicated funding stream for this kind of Research Rather than using funding from the fines to go into the Grant Program. We would prefer a dedicated funding stream for this kind of research. Ms. Bolger from where i sit as a survivor and an advocate, we dont know any school is getting it right perfectly. There are schools with strong policies but until we have more information and more data like what we could obtain from standardize Climate Service, i dont think we will have a good sense of what policies are necessarily working best until students tell us. Ms. Napolitano a goes to the point of flexibility and legislation because evidencebased best practices will change over time and i think what the law once is for us to use datadriven best practices and to be able to demonstrate that is what we are doing. Sen. Warren thank you for holding this hearing. It is very important and i appreciate you for doing this. We talk about the numbers according to the cdc. An estimated 19 of women will experience actual felt well in campus. One in five women means something is very wrong. All students should be safe on campus. Ms. Bolger highlights the importance of Climate Service and the importance of making the data that comes from them public. I strongly support this effort. Good data can be an Important Foundation for change and as you said, if no one knows what is going on, there will not be any change. We have also talked about how colleges respond to reported incidences of Sexual Assault and i think that is very important. A schools response should be timely, appropriate, respectful. I want to ask about work to prevent Sexual Assault in the first place and have the federal government can help. Chief stafford come in your 30 years serving , in your near 30 years of serving and Law Enforcement, what did the administration do that proved effective in preventing Sexual Assault on campus . Ms. Stafford we often focus the education efforts on women because we assume generally women are more frequently the victim of a Sexual Assault of them men but i think we have to focus our education efforts on men. We need to do that when they are in high school. We need we should be sending men to campuses who understand respecting a woman understanding what consent is. I have can you to concerns about the level of understanding and i have friends with teenage boys and i talked to them about their level of understanding on consent and they dont understand consent. I think the education efforts really need to be focus not only on women and not becoming the victim of a sexual offense but on men and not victimizing women. I think needs to go both ways. Sen. Warren ms. Bolger, would you like to weigh in . Ms bolger. the most important thing about consent education is that it starts early and keeps going. We need education in middle school, high school, college. It needs to start the week first years get to campus and it needs to continue. I have no recollection of any orientation or education programming i received around this because as a firstyear in your first week, you are bombarded with so many messages and information so it needs to be ongoing. I see a lot of schools trying to fly by by doing online prevention education. I went vegan education is not education. It needs to be in person and it needs to be Online Education is not education. It also needs to be looked at as a cultural norms and values base level, talking about sexism and violence more broadly. Sen. Warren can you tell us what you have found was effective or not in terms of prevention. Ms. Napolitano it is an evolving area. In person education, online supplements complements. Those things can happen together. Experimenting with peertopeer education programs. Bystander education so that the overall Campus Community is more aware of what it should do if they are a witness to one event. Those are the kinds of things i think improve the overall climate. Sen. Warren let me ask this question because of where we are today. Where is it the federal government can be hopeful in this part of the making campuses safer . What is it we should be talking about and thinking about at the federal level . I open this to anyone who would like to respond. Ms. Stafford the reason sexual results of drivers have been unwilling to report sex offense is because theyre uncertain of what they will face and what theyre going to deal with when they make the report. Will they be believed, challenged, made to feel a relevant . Having or not having an mou will change whether the survivor reports. But most safety leaders i know have requested mous of the local blues ended they have one, it is because the local police were ruling and if they dont, it is because the local police were not willing. There is no teeth behind it that forces them to engage in getting into an mou. I would like to see something that actually forces the hand of the local and state Police Agencies to actually engage with the campus Police Agencies. In d c, every time there was a new chief of police, i went and asked for an mou. Sen. Warren a very good point. Ms. Bolger the thing that is important to me is mandated transparency in schools and that students and families know what to expect and enforcement in the department of education. Students have really felt alone on their campuses and trying to deal with this end of the office for civil rights can continue to step up, im confident things will change. Sen. Warren thank you all very much. We have to do everything we can to keep everyone safe on campus and i appreciate you being here. It is our job to do what we can to help. Thank you. Sen. Baldwin thank you very much and i very much appreciate the scheduling of this hearing. I really want to thank our Witnesses Today both for your time and testimony but also for your lifes work and energy devoted to advocating for others and improving the climate on our campuses across the united states. I wanted to start with a question about the Climate Survey. We just had a question before our break about bolstering participation rates. And in addition to that, i wanted to recognize that the association of american universities has been active in developing and beginning to implement Sexual AssaultCampus Climate surveys. I am proud that one of the campuses in wisconsin is a part of this effort and as i understand it, the results of this survey are due in the fall but i would hope that you could perhaps share some of the lessons that aau has learned in its implementation and especially if we are to look at including a Climate Survey as we reauthorize the Higher Education act. We want to garner the best and latest information. And then i went to ask the president , i think the first point you made in her testimony was the flexibility recognizing differences in campuses and how that might inform the content of a Climate Survey and i wonder if you could be more specific about how you would alter the Climate Survey from campus to campus are what we should be thinking about. Let me start with you. Ms. Flounlacker thank you for a very important question. This is a top priority. Our president s and chancellors asked for better data and we are delivering through the surveys. We will produce the aggregate result in the fall. We encouraged all schools and im confident all will produce their own results as well. I will buy to offer some specific comments. The first has to would like to offer some specific comments. I think colleges with any survey what to ensure as high a Response Rate as possible, particularly with a survey of this nature. Schools have no Legal Authority to force to compel students to participate. Having said that there are a number of strategies that schools can employ if the survey is locally administered. If the school itself administers the survey versus the department of education administering the survey. That is one of our concerns. If the school administers it they have control over a host of issues. Who promotes it, how it is promoted when, how long, whether incentives are used or not. There is a solid researchbased group of evidence that talks about strategies that really can bolster Response Rates. That is an area that we know a lot more about now and a a you can be a great resource moving forward aau can be a great resource moving forward. Ms. Napolitano per answer illustrates the point i was making about flexibility. A survey administered from a federal department is different than when administered on your own campus. And how we campus administers it and the incentives it uses and what it does to increase the Response Rate can be very specific. I think the same thing can be said to content as well. As long as certain subject matter areas are covered. The third thing is that you can get Campus Climate through a variety of measurement mechanisms. We were talking during the break about focus groups to supplement surveys that giveve students a greater opportunity to discuss. We know this from politics were a poll just tells you x a focus group gives you the opportunity for a longer discussion. The result is for National Policy makers to know what is happening, parents to know what is happening, students. But also campus leadership to know what is happening on their campus so they can take immediate action. I would ask you to follow up to make your point and let me note that the other question i intended to ask but wont have time relates to the fact that we are looking at flat funding the office of civil rights in the department of education, which is tragic to me and terms of how important you have articulated in your testimony adequate resources are there and i would love to hear from all of you on what impact it will have on institutions as well as students. Sen. Collins senator casey. Sen. Casey thank you, senator collins. I appreciate what you have done on this issue. I appreciate all of our witnesses who have labored and been here a long time. This is an issue that i guess for far too long we have not been willing to confront as a country even though it is one of the most profound betrayals you can imagine. It is a betrayal when you sent a daughter to a college and i sent two and i have two more. When you send a daughter to a college and you tell them to study hard and they are going to have a wonderful experience, one of the best experiences of their life in most cases, and then the system betrays them. The schools them down, the government lets them down. When i say the trail, the trail betrayal, a lot of us share in that. I think we have to be very insistent on following rules and demanding a lot more of our schools then we have demanded until now. I think it is a manner of is it just is. And the bible, they talk about people hungering and thirsting for justice. In this case, they have not been satisfied. Victims have not been satisfied families and communities. We have a long, long way to go and i very proud of the work that i and others did to get the recent changes through the regulatory process and have them law that is being of limited by way of regulation. I know there is some discord about the result of that. We will get to that in a moment. The last thing i will say, this has to be a priority for men. Men have been on the sidelines too long. Too many Young College students standing at parties and knowing something will happen or having a sense that it might happen come a sense of what their friends could do and just walking away or not doing anything. In some ways, as much system has betrayed women on campuses, a lot of guys have not have betrayed them as well, sometimes their best friends. Ms. Bolger, when you testified we are grateful you did that. I cannot even begin to imagine how difficult it is to have lived through what you have lived through and come before a public audience like this and it may not be the first time but it is a great value and benefit. We to learn from you and be inspired and try to move forward. I want to ask you a question about your experience working with survivors. One of the challenges is reporting and if you could walk through in your experience why victims sometimes have a great difficulty of reporting. Ms. Bolger thank you for your question in all your work on this issue made so much to survivors and students. There are a host of reasons why it is challenging for survivors to report. The person who assaulted them is likely someone they know, a friend, a partner. It is incredibly difficult to take a person you love and trust have this happen to you and then report them. Many survivors are reporting to the police for any number of reasons. And the undocumented, they maybe undocumented, they may come from over criminalized communities. For some survivors, reporting will not do anything for them because their states dont even recognize what happened to them as violence. I think it is incredibly important at the campus level that schools are open and transparent about the kind of protections students can receive by reporting. It is hard to report if you dont know what could come of it. Sen. Casey we appreciate that. One of the things we try to do is take that into consideration and i appreciate the input. Secretary, we are grateful you are here today and grateful for your service in the field of education. In time to do with the problem and the complexity and trying to deal with the problem and the complexity p ms. Napolitano one lesson is how do you take a University System and a major issue is cultural, health criminal. And organize it in such a fashion that you can take implementable steps on each one and work your way through a program and evaluate it as you go along as to whether you are really doing what survivors need and what justice commands. At one point, i wanted to add that with respect to what students have told me on the reluctance to report, it is the issue of confidentiality. Is the confidential advocate truly confidential and having to be clear about when we have someone we brand as the confidential independent advocate does that person also have reporting responsibilities . If they do, that undercuts the nature of confidentiality. And i think there is a lot of confusion in the love right now. Sen. Casey thank you very much. Sen. Alexander i had expected to be in nashville today and was told the vote might be close on the highway bill so that is the way the senate works. I came back but i thinkthank senator collins were preparing herself and using her usual diligence. I. T. Was very much for taking time to i thank you very much for taking time to do this. We will wrap up the hearing now as you go and we look forward to your advice as we continue with this issue. As you can tell from the comments of the senators, there is a good deal of concern and a surprising amount of humility here in the sense that we are not sure we know what we can do to help you and we certainly dont want to interfere with your efforts. Senator warren asked what we can do to help and we will be working with our working groups on the reauthorization of the Higher Education act of this fall and we hope to complete that before thanksgiving and i have more to say about asking for your advice so thank you, senator collins. Sen. Collins thank you very much, mr. Chairman. It was an honor to substitute for you today. Senator mary, do you have additional questions . Sen. Murray i would like to asked to include a statement from the Education Fund and i will submit the questions i have but i want to thank all of our panelists for their expert testimony. This is an extremely important topic and i think every parent who is sending a daughter or son to college once to know that we are doing everything we can to make sure they are protected and you have given us great insight into how to do this correctly. I look forward to working with you on this. Sen. Alexander this has been a priority of senator murrays and she will continue to focus on campus safety. Were thinking about a hearing coming up soon on that. I have three questions i would like to ask the panel and the answers can come later. Question number one goes back to what i said earlier. The government has a way of expressing its concern in laws rules, and regulations that arent as efficient as the concern is real. We sometimes cause campuses to spend more time filling out forms and working with students to have a session of informing incoming freshmen about their responsibilities. Would each of you be willing to give a specific suggestion about how you see title ix and its rules and regulations, how they could be improved, where they conflict, how they could be made clearer so that campuses would have the flexibility that you talk about . President , would you be willing to do that and in a specific form . Do you have any comments you would like to make . Ms. Napolitano i welcome the opportunity to do that. Sen. Alexander it is such a good system you are bound to have plenty of people waiting through the federal rules and regulations and say we dont know what this means and this duplicates this and you have been in so many different positions that you know exactly what im talking about. Particularly on behalf of the colleges, we need that by around september in order to include it in the reauthorization act. Ms. Flounlacker chairman, we would welcome the opportunity and if i could go a step further, i think we should also pay close attention to the department of education and make sure as the reauthorization process goes forward, they not issue any Additional Guidance without the comment that is very standard rulemaking process to allow stakeholders the time to ask questions to clarify as well as provide important expertise to ultimately shape the outcome we all want. Sen. Alexander that is a reasonable request. Several of us asked distinguished groups to look at generally simplifying our education rules and regulations and making them more effective. One of their findings was that every one of our 6000 colleges and universities gets on average every workday one new guidance rule. I will ask the department not to do that, especially while we are in the midst of the reauthorization. The other observation to make is that only 15 of the colleges or private universities. We often think about those. There is a difference between nashville although diesel costs college and ucla. We need to keep the diversity in mind. Another question i would ask one College President said when i asked her what we should do about the issue said you should focus on helping campuses better coordinate with Law Enforcement agencies but do not turn colleges into Law Enforcement agencies. Do you have any comment on that . Ms. Stafford i absolutely agree. I think there is a reason for a campus process and i think campuses of certainly have a place in the process. I dont want to see them become Law Enforcement agencies. I think students have the right to choose whether or not they want to move forward with pressing charges and if they do, lawenforcement is there for that. The campuses provide an alternative for students as far as the disciplinary process and we have continued to strengthen that process. I fully support not making campuses try to take the place of Law Enforcement. Law enforcement has a specific place and they will do their job if called upon to do it. Ms. Napolitano i would concur and say the goal of the student disciplinary process is different than the criminal process. I think, however, there can be greater linkage between campuses and Law Enforcement in appropriate cases and there are ways to do that. Sen. Alexander the last question i have is this. What can we do or not do to make sure that colleges establish procedures dealing with Sexual Assault that are fair and protect the Due Process Rights of both the accused and the accuser . What should we keep in mind as we work on that issue . Ms. Napolitano that is something we are looking into right now, what should be the rights of the accused. I think they should be different. We are working our way through that right now. It is a difficult issue, as you might imagine. Ms. Bolger the only point i would add is that title ix already requires schools to be fair and equitable in their processes. We sent a letter to University President for fairness and that they follow the law. I do get is critically important that is the case and at the end of the day, we are all really on the same page here. There is a way in which we like to pick people who care about survivors against those to care about accused students but this is about access to education and title ix clearly demands that all parties be treated fairly. Was going to make the same point. We need to make sure that any new training requirements for the confidential advisor, for example, doesnt contradict what is currently in law with respect to fair and impartial process. Training requirements is an area we needed to pay particular attention to. Senator whitehouse has slipped in under the wire. [laughter] i will call on him and we will conclude at the hearing. Sen. Whitehouse thank you chairman. Thank you for this hearing and thank you very much to all of the witnesses who have been wonderful. I think given of the late stage in the hearing, what i might do is offer a few thoughts. I would ask each of you if you would respond to them for the record rather than extend this and run over my time. My first thought is that there is not good enough coordination between title 9 process and the ordinary and proper course of a Law Enforcement investigation. And that we needed to find a way to disintentangle those so that we are not working with cross purposes. Too many cases we work with evidence that is unnecessarily lost because Law Enforcement wasnt prodding at a suitable time. Wasnt brought in at a suitable time. We hear about instances in which the university process creates opportunity prejudicial to the victim in a later criminal justice process by opening avenues of crossexamination. I want your thoughts on how we can better accommodate, in Law Enforcement process, given that, to quote senator gillibrand give the violent felony that this actually is, i think we need to bring Law Enforcement into this. That brings me to my second point, which is that, in my view, the sooner we get Law Enforcement engaged, the better. , the counterargument is that in the past there have been times when a Law Enforcement has done a lousy job participating in these investigations. But i think the fact that Law Enforcement has done a lousy job on occasion is not a reason to keep Law Enforcement out. It is a reason to improve Law Enforcement in this area. I think we have a model with Domestic Violence. It was not too long ago when Law Enforcement was not helpful in a Domestic Violence cases. Drive the guy around, ask the woman what she did to provoke them. We have learned a lot. And the Domestic Violence community has a lot to teach us about victims, advisors, and Law Enforcement early in the process. The third point that i ask you to respond to is that the primary concern that i hear on behalf of victims is that if Law Enforcement gets involved right off the bat, there is risk that the victim will lose control over the proceedings. At a time when victims are already feeling that they lost a lot of control, feeling very vulnerable. That can be a very considerable threat. I believe that the victims are very awfully poorly informed about Law Enforcement intervention. Secretary napolitano and i were attorney generals together. You dont have much of a case if you dont have a cooperating victim. The likelihood of a criminal ca se being a vehicle for running away with an unwilling victim is very small. I think that should be addressed. The concept, and i will close with this the concept that i am mulling is that at a very early stage in the report of an alleged assault Law Enforcement would be involved. The Police Department would be involved. At a time before unless there was some kind of immediate Public Safety emergency there are times when you need to react, and obviously you should prevent that from happening but absent that, that there could be a conversation in a Law Enforcement vestibule of sorts. He comes out of his pure Law Enforcement role into the vestibule, sits with the victim, and together they can walk the victim through what his or her real prospects are and what the real likelihood is of being runaway with by a Law Enforcement investigation gone berserk. And what the real risks are not reporting to lawenforcement timely in terms of cross examination, losing electronic and biological evidence as time goes by. And figure out a way to make that happen. I worry that we will be in a situation in which the fears that have been justly provoked by clumsy, untrained unexperienced Law Enforcement interventions in these cases are becoming an obstacle for a process in which we could create experience trauma informed, sensitive, effective Law Enforcement intervention at a very early stage. I have run out of time, but i hope those are useful thoughts. I hope they are useful enough to provoke a response from you under our questions for the record. I would be delighted to receive a qr response from any system you delegate to handle this stuff. Senator, thank you very much. You know me too long to get away with that. [laughter] thank you senator whitehouse. I would like consented to insert statements into the record of organizations interested in you process rights. Weve received a number of comments on that from a nancy gardner, a Harvard Law School professor and others. The hearing record will remain open for 10 days. Members may submit additional record if they would like. The committee will hold another reauthorization on wednesday august 5, to discuss the status of Student Success at american colleges universities, and how to improve it. Thank you to the witnesses for coming. We appreciate it very much. Some of you have come a long way. We know that you have other things to do. This has been a big help to us. I thank my colleagues. The committee will stand adjourned. Chairman, may i make one final remark . My attorney at home has convened folks from a Domestic Violence victims organizations, and when i look at the Robust Community that is all participating in a good way i want to, on the record commend the Victims Community in rhode island for the terrific local work they are doing to inform what i am doing here. Think you for the courtesy. Thank you the committee is adjourned. Next week in congress, the house continues with its august district work period. Also pro forma sessions until the Senate Resumes september 8. Senators return monday at 2 00 p. M. Eastern, when we expect to see work on a bill to defund planned parenthood. As always, you can watch the house live on cspan. The senate live on cspan two. The republican president ial candidates are in manchester enhancer for the motor manchester, New Hampshire. Cspans road to the white house is providing live coverage of the twohour forum. The New Hampshire union leader along with media organizations from the caucus and primary states are sponsoring this forum. Following the live form, you can provide your input by adding your comments were calling in. Or calling in. Road to the white house 2016, on cspan, cspan radio, and cspan. Org. Next a house judiciary subcommittee on the internet and its future with interconnect