Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

You plan to get us off the bottom . Mr. Hefenger i start with the fact that everyone rose raise their hand and took an oath of office. How many people in this country do that . Im sure their eyes were open. They knew it was not the most popular job in the country. But they said i want to be the face of security for the traveling public. That is where morale starts. What is where does morale fail after that . I go right back to the mission and my dedication to the coast guard told me it starts with the mission. And then you have to talk about that mission. And you have to train to that mission. And you have to measure that mission area. When i come to work, i know i want to know that i am being given the tools and the training to do it and they are backing me up when i have to make decisions. I think there is a lot of training to that and there is a Workforce Engagement needs. Representative thompson people who apply do not have to go back. Now we are hearing, when they tried to get recertified, there is a tremendous backlog so that members card expires before the new card comes. We would like for you to look at that. I dont want us to create a bigger problem by alleviating the second trip and we didnt fix getting the card that to the person. Those workers who work on military installations, on selected instances, are being required to get an additional card. It costs about 200. It has the same information that the twixk card has. Can we see some reciprocity so that those workers dont have to pay for a second card . Mr. Heffenger i am not familiar with the concern your raising. But if i can get with your staff, i can look into that. If we are collecting the same information, we can verify the same things. I think we can work on reciprocity. Representatives thompson and the issue of getting the cards back before they expire . Mr. Heffenger yes, sir. I know it has been a challenge. It is a focus area for me. I would like to know what the backlog is and are there things that can dramatically speed up that process . Representative thompson thank you very much. Representative rogers you have some in her should to deal with. You have some employees that you would like to put the fear of god into their heart or nothing is going to change. I have seen some good administrators precede you. But i want you to understand that youve got some folks that really believe they dont have to change. You will be gone before they are. You need to make them understand that is not the case. It cannot be slight changes. It has to be dramatic changes. Or it will be the same results we have had for the past seven years. The latest ig report that has upset some many people is identical to the last three edge reports. That is unacceptable. That is people who are unwilling to do anything different and dont believe there is any consequences for not doing anything different. So i hope you and still and understanding in them, if they are gone. And if you cannot do that, then you ought to be gone. I think you agree with that. One concern, i heard the chairman make reference to the project program. A vary good program as far as its goals. The problem we are running into is that frequent travelers, the people who want into this program have gotten into it. The fsds at the airport have not adjusted the lane activity to accommodate that traffic. So now you spend more time in the precheck line than if you go into the priority lane. Whatever they call it. And just go through the typical take your shoes off type. That is silly. People are going to stop going into the project program. They dont find it enhances their ability to get through faster. I hope you will address that with air force airport folks. The method of getting safe people that we know through through an efficient manner, it is the more infrequent travelers that might have a problem. You understand that explosive detection canines are a valuable asset. They are the best asset you have. I am not going to talk in an open setting about the efficacy of the equipment or the personnel, but as soon as we are back from our august district work period, meet with you and go over in detail what shortcomings have been. I am vary very familiar with this subject matter. Something needs to be done to remedy that. I hope you will need your commitment to meet with me in september. That is all ive got. Think you, mr. Chairman. Representative jackson lee thank you for your presence here today, vice admiral. Let me thank you for your service. It is interesting that i followed my good friend mr. Rogers. I had the privilege of sharing the Transportation Committee and served as his ranking when he was chair and we are, if you will young but we have been here for a little bit. So we are really grateful for your service. As i thank you for your service let me take a different twist and say to you that i am vary proud of the men and women who serve every day on the front lines in many ways, but in particular today of transportation Security Officers. Over the years, i have argued for increased professional Development Training, to recognize that morale and commitment have a lot to do with pay, respect, and professional developer and training. I will be posing questions within the short amount of time that i have. Again, my sympathy to the Hernandez Family for mr. Geraldo hernandez killed in of duty as a transportation killed in the line of duty as a transportation security officer. We should never dismiss the fact, in all of the issues that you have to deal with, since 9 11, there are probably millions of tsa screenings, tso screenings. And any number of stops that the tso officers make a and i hope you acknowledge that. Beginning to correct starts with acknowledging service. I think it is vary important to do so. Let me also say, however, in addition to that, we have allegations of mismanagement wasteful procedures, retaliation against whistleblowers, low morale, security gaps. But i never want to leave this table without saying thank you to the tso officers. I make it my business as i travel through airports across america, to say hello, to ask a question, or to watch their procedures. Again, if i might, professional Development Training is crucial. So let me just ask you a series of questions. I think you can do better if we get rid of sequestration. You need the money placed in the right places. I agree with the use of privatization on the basis let me correct that. I believe there is a place for the private sector, in particular dealing with technology. I might have misheard you when you said a third tsa, that it was a private sector. I am against privatizing airports and tso officers. I think we need a professional, trained group. I want your comments as it relates to a professional, trained group. I would be interested in you being able to craft an effective utilization of these individuals with a more effective use of the resources you are given on that. I want to take note of the fact that a young man in dallas was so in love with his girlfriend and he recently ran past security. I would like your comment on that. We shut down the Newark Airport a couple of years ago with another enamored young man who ran to security. And i want your comments on tsos being the most is a buffets and america. How do the most visible faces in america. I hope i can join mr. Rogers and others for that gift briefing. If you could that scif briefing. If you could comment on those. Mr. Heffenger thank you first and foremost for acknowledging the workforce. I couldnt agree with you more. The mission of tsa is delivered by the frontline transportation Security Officers in this country. I cannot say how important they are to the success of this program but i cannot thank them enough for the work that they do. I do that myself whenever i travel and certainly now. With respect to budget, i think you are right. Sequestration will be a challenge for every Government Agency that will be subjected to it. I hope that congress is able to pass a budget resolution that will eliminate sequestration and allow us to have some certainty Going Forward. To make sure it was clear what i was saying with respect to third party what i was really speaking about was incentivizing have a sector entities, private sector businesses to help develop the technology that we needed to the future. I think we can do that in a competitive way to provide incentives that dont have government taking on all the risks of development, dont have government buying huge Capital Outlays that outlays for equipment that later becomes obsolete. The bdo program as you know there has been some controversy about that program. There have been a number of gao audits. One has looked at the efficacy of the program and the work that is done. I know the tsa contracted out a thirdparty overview of that program. That thirdparty spent two years collecting data on that program and running tests. That was submitted as a report. There is a question about the underlying concerns. I know we are in the process of completing a report that shows what we believe to be the scientific underpinnings of that. That said, i understand the concern with the use of that. From my perspective and im not clear on how i feel about the bdo program yet, being relatively new but from my perspective, a link to validated underpinnings, if i can so effectiveness with behavioral viewing, then i think it is an effective tool in the security toolkit. I know Law Enforcement agencies around the world use behavioral indications and determining whether they have problems, whether you are a beat cop or you are looking at another situation. Im looking forward to reading that report that was done. It looks at the scientific underpinnings. And i look forward to discussing the further with the committee. The Security Breach at dallas airport, that you mentioned, that is of great concern to me. For a couple of reasons. One, i am vary concerned about our i am very concern about the safety of our frontline workforce. The attack in new orleans earlier this spring, those are vary real threats. You have to be careful of that. So any potential for somebody to breach a barrier runs the potential for not just a safety issue, but also a security issue. So i ordered an immediate review of that incident. More importantly, this goes back to the systemic issue. I dont want to go around and whacking off everyone a problem there is. I want to look at the system and understand if we have an issue with security at our check. Once that is the barrier once again, that is the barrier between a sterile and the nonsterile areas. I will share that with you when i have it. Most importantly im going to look across the system and see how they are doing this. Representative jackson lee thank you. I would like to put this in the record so we can discuss it with her and discuss it further. Representative cap go representative katko i want to thank you for the job that your employees are doing every day and day out. One of the areas i want to focus on a little bit today is the issue of access control. We kind of touched on it but it is a gaping hole in security at the airports nationwide. Within the last year or two, you have had a major Drug Trafficking ring operating out of the oakland airport. You had another one operating out of the dallasfort Worth Airport that had implications in a briefing that is not necessarily probably. And an individual who smuggled as much as 160 guns, loaded including assault rifles on airlines. And brought them up to new york city. I think these incidences point out a major problem with Access Controls at airports. I recently had to had a bill passed in our subcommittee. I would like to hear your thoughts on the axis control issue. Should there be minimum standards at all access point that these airports . I would preface the question further by saying, it is clear from the dallas case that the viper teams that are used to do the random screening at various points would be monitored by the bad guys at dallasfort worth and they were simply avoiding them. That is not going to work Going Forward. With that overview, i would like to hear your thought on Access Controls. Mr. Heffenger thank you. I agree with your concern. As you know, those incidences let me back up a little bit and talk in general terms. This should be a known interested population. Everyone of these workers gets vetted for background. There is a question about how far back we need to go in the future. They are continuously vetted. Any credential holders are continuously vetted in the terrorist screening database. And currently, there is a periodic revetting against criminal databases. That doesnt guarantee that you dont have a criminal population. So what do you do about the potential for criminal activity or worse in a known interested population . You introduce uncertainty to that population and you try to grow a culture of belonging to that organization. I absolutely agree that access should be reduced to the minimum necessary to ensure operations of the facility. My experience in the poor environment, when we looked at the maritime sector right after 9 11, a wideopen environment for obvious reasons. You want stuff to freely move in and out. The first answers we got back from the maritime cemetery was that it is impossible to close this down. But over time, the maritime secretary was that it is impossible to close this down. But over time, we did it. Periodic, random, and other types of inspections that you are subject to come a growing sense of culture that we are all in this together. As i look at the aviation environment, i look at the hundreds of different employers of people who hold. Badges and you think, how do i get that group of people to think as one . To recognize, hey, this is their airport . So there is a campaign out there that a combination of reducing Access Points increasing setting specific standards for those Access Points, how you inspect those standards, keeping that randomized expectation of inspection. I think that helps. You need a number of these things. And then growing a sense amongst the workforce the large percentage of which are good, solid, hardworking people that, look, it is their response ability to help release this as well. There are some airports who have done this and have done it a very effectively. And i would like to look at their best practices and extend those across. I am meeting with the airport executives, the airport council. This is a top issue of concern for me as well. Representative there are a couple of representative kat ko there are a couple of airports doing this. Those three airports are all going towards 100 screening of employees. We hear from airports across the country that is something i doable. I would like to hear your thoughts on that aired on that. Mr. Heffenger i want to see what 100 secured it looks like. I want to hear from them how they achieved it. What are the challenges . And what are the ongoing applications . I need to be able to address that when i meet with the airport to claim they cannot do that. So i am on a Factfinding Mission over the next month or two to educate myself as to what the various arguments are. What i would like to do is to continue have continue to have this conversation Going Forward. Representative rice mr. Secretary, i would like to talk first about diversity. I think gender diversity is a goal for most public and private sectors. But i think for tsa, it is an absolute necessity given the traveling public that they are interacting with on a daily basis. What percentage of tsa employees are women . Mr. Heffenger i dont have that number off the top of my head. Although i have asked for that. It is one of the things i and talking about this week. Diversity is critically important. Anecdotally speaking, i am pleased to see what looks to be a vary diverse frontline workforce as i travel around. I will get you the percentage of women and break it up into categories. I think that diversity is the key to success in an organization. Always has been. It is one of the Biggest Challenges we face in the coast guard and the military not just recruiting, but retaining a diverselooking workforce. We found out early on that recruiting wasnt enough to call yourself diverse if there was no pathway of the organization. What i commit to you is that it is of critical importance to me across the organization. Not just in the entrylevel, but throughout the organization to look for opportunities throughout. Representative rice i am glad to hear you say that. I believe there are limitations for female employees that male employees do not have. If they were to have a female employee and baggage needing to be moved to the passenger pat down area because of the need to have more women women only being able to pat down women and that leads to some level of frustration that women have because they are facing those kinds of limitations and room for upward mobility that men dont have. I am happy to be sitting here with you. I think you are a great choice. I think your focus on trying to improve the morale for your employees is a good goal. And i want to offer that we are here to improve your morale, such as it is. You are in a truly thankless job. I look forward to seeing you out in l. A. I am going to look at lax airport on the 18th of this month. We stand ready to help you in any way that we can. Mr. Carter admiral welcome. I can in no way speak from members of this committee, but for myself and i suspect the Committee Members agree with this, we wish you success. We want to see you succeed and we want to do everything to help you. I want to touch quickly on two things. First of all, understand that i represent the entire coast of georgia. On the coast, we have two major ports. We have the savannah court, the number two container port on the eastern seaboard. And we have the number two rolloff for in the nation. Both of those ports are vitally important. In both of those ports, we use the turks cards the the twic cards. The transportation workforce identification card. I am vary concerned. First of all, an individual used a card to gain access in a Norfolk Naval station and killed in able officer. Twics holders have committed crimes in port areas. They can be used to commit crimes on ports. The proposed rulemaking for twics discusses multiple possible scenarios where the cards will not be effective. Dhs has failed twice to complete a Successful Pilot program with the cards. Dhs has not concluded a reliable analysis of the internal control effectiveness. And a weakness in my question is what about the twics cards . Can they be fixed . If they can, how are you going to fix them . Mr. Heffenger you raised a lot of the same questions i have coming into this job. As a former member of the coast guard, we worked with tsa throughout the coast guard it lamented the twic card Reader Program based on the rules of issuance. First of all, i want the mission to a known population. I want some biometrics on that person. I want to be able to run those against databases and tell me if i have a criminal act or. And i want to terminal actor. And i want to know if the disqualifying factors are the right to disqualifying factors for holding the card. A lot of groups, longshoremen and others, had some concerns about that list. That took a lot of work to get that was negotiated. I think you need to continually look at that to make sure you have the right features or the right disqualifying factors and that you are consistent in the application. The second piece is to have it used properly when you are attempting to enter a facility. Buy used properly, i mean what aspects of the facility does it give you access to . Why does it give you access . And how known are you to the population . That is part of the reader issue and part of the procedure and rules issue. As you know, the card can be coded to give you access to different parts of the facility some more secure than others. All of that is my ongoing review right now the program. While i cannot specifically answer your questions today, what i will promise you is, over the next the coming weeks and months, i will answer them. The current state of play in your particular instances, i would like more detail because i can look at the specifically for you. Representative carter i want to follow up on vetting some of the Airline Workers specifically. In june, we had a hearing and i was appalled to find out that some of the applicants were only required to have their last name and first initial and no Social Security number. I hope that has been taking care of already since that hearing. And if it hasnt, i hope the first a you do when you get back is to take care of that. Mr. Heffenger for the specific ones, it has been taken care of. And we are moving to, as i said, a full name, Social Security number and clear connection to identity. Representative carter good. Let me finish by repeating what i said before. We wish you success and thank you. Thank you for what youre doing. Representative torres thank you again, admiral, for being here with us today. I have no doubt it sounds like you have had a great support from this committee and we are sure youll be successful addressing Major Concerns that we have seen with the tsa. And their responsibility of securing our nation and our ports. Today i want to focus on my home airport, Ontario International airport. As you may know, the airport is controlled by the los angeles airport. They have oversight and management control of this airport. Through my experience not only as a passenger but going on a security visit tour of the airport, i want to highlight for you today the concerns that i have. Under the agreement, the arrangement it has with ontario lax is 56 miles away, and they are the ones controlling our airport. Ontario airports manager is only at the airport on a parttime basis. It is a shared position with another airport. We used to have a fulltime assistant manager, but that position was deleted a year ago. The authority, the Management Authority could be very well undermined when that manager is not at ontario airport. It is unclear who was in charge of the airport when that person is physically not present. When it comes to technology, the Ontario International airport seems to be lacking. The Card Reader Technology that regulates access to the secure areas is inaccurate, meeting that employees have no limited access as to where they can enter secure areas. Additionally, many dispatch centers security monitors at ontario airport are nonfunctioning. Ontario airport gets Old Fire Department equipment from lax. So whatever is deemed inoperable or unwanted at lax is shipped to ontario airport, and that is the equipment that our folks have to work with. When it comes to security, the airport perimeter appears to be lacking in needs to be reviewed. For example, as a result of a grade separation on the north side of the airport, we have had residents that were able to walk into drive all the way through to the runway without being stopped. I also have concerns about the training of ontario airport employees. It appears that the lax employees do some training at the ontario facility, but its not clear if our employees are participating in that training. As you can see, i have many concerns about the concert security this is a major problem because the airport serves millions of residents in california. It is a hub, an engine for our community in the inland empire. My here, as i explained to you earlier, is not to get into the politics of who owns the airport. My goal here today is to ensure that you fully understand the issues and concerns that our community has as it relates to security, and he was managing it. Who was responsible for the ontario airport . At this time i want to invite you to participate in a meeting with me to discuss these concerns to come up with solutions to these problems. Would you be willing to discuss these issues and visit with me the airport and also would you be willing to work with me and other relevant federal officials to begin to address the tremendous problems that i have seen, personally witnessed at this airport . Mr. Neffenger yes, i would be, and i look forward to the opportunity to understand better what the issues are and more importantly to visit the airport and see for myself what these issues are. Rep. Thompson torres thank you, and it want to reiterate that i do get the ontario airport experience once a week. Rep. Ratcliffe thank you, mr. Chairman. Admiral, first of all, i like to thank you for your 34 years of dedicated service in the coast guard. I certainly wish you the best of luck in your new role as the tsa administrator. You have a very difficult job ahead of you. As a number of our recent hearings in this committee have highlighted, there are some immediate and frankly glaring problems that you will need to address in this new role. We need to only rewind the clock a few days to underscore some of the troubling gaps that exist right now at the tsa. Im sure that youre aware that three days ago on sunday at the dallasfort Worth Airport, a 26yearold man was able to bypass tsa a security without a boarding pass or any identification at all and get on a plane to guatemala. According to the police report, it was only after the police were called and the individual left the plane that tsas security became aware of the incident. I want to give you an opportunity to respond to what happened at dfw and give us any information that you can about your investigation into how a breach of that magnitude was possible. Mr. Neffenger i share your great outrage over that. As i said before, the checkpoint is a critically important element of the security system, and it forms a barrier between. With that specific case, its under investigation. Im happy to share the results with the committee once we see what the specifics where that caused that. The bottom line is that you should not have it should not be easy, it should be impossible for somebody to make their way past the checkpoint without being observed. It certainly should not be possible to get past the checkpoint to the point of getting on an aircraft without having known about it. We will find out what happened there, but it speaks as i said earlier to the more systemic question about how we are managing our checkpoints. I think it ties right into some of the concerns with respect to how we are supporting our frontline workforce what the training is, what the standards are. As i said, i think we will find out what happened there and i will make sure that we put into place the procedures to keep it from happening again. It may be a question of changing the way those barriers are constructed when theres nobody manning the station. Is quite often the case that you have lines that arent open, unsecured during that time. Rep. Ratcliffe dfw is an airport that i use frequently, and obviously, many of the constituents that i represent makes it one of the busiest airports in the country. Can you at least tell us at this point do you know is this an issue that was specific to dfw or are some of the concerns heres something that could happen at other airports around the country . In other words, do you know if this is a configuration issue or is it a breach of protocol and procedure . You can share any information. Mr. Neffenger as i said, i have seen the report, the offices of investigation is working with that right now. I let you know what specifically were the issues here. My suspicion is that right now it is confined to that specific location, dallasfort worth. I will have a full review. I talked to the operations and said i want you to look across the whole system and tell me whether we have got issues like this elsewhere. And if we do, i want to plan for how we are going to address those. Rep. Ratcliffe obviously that unfortunate event at dfw highlights the challenges that you face and i do wish you luck. I look forward to having you work with this committee to improve airport safety. Thanks for being with us. I yield back. Mr. Neffenger i thank the gentleman for raising this issue. I would like a report from the tsa. It is very disturbing i dont know how he got past security, completely and touched. We dont know anything about this individual, either, i assume at this point in time . Mr. Neffenger what i can tell you is that he was distraught over his girlfriend heading out of town if you wanted to stop her. Thats what i know. It looked like a love gone wrong. [laughter] rep. Mccaul we will see. Mr. Neffenger i will share with this committee our findings. Rep. Mccaul mr. Keating is recognized. Rep. Keating thank you. Thank you for your service in the coast guard and for your comments here today. You are certainly stressing accountability, and doing the kind of work you did it is a difficult assignment but i think you are on target. I just want to concentrate on one area, which has been something ive brought up the last several years. It represents, i think, a tremendous security issue with our airports. It dates back from the time i was a District Attorney in massachusetts with the case of a 15yearold boy stowing away on a commercial airline from Charlotte Douglas tragically losing his life over milton, massachusetts when the landing gear went down. The fact that he penetrated that security aroused concern, but what followed that issue just to put it in perspective, from 20012011, there were 1388 Security Breaches andin 450 domestic airports. Whats troubling is that the vulnerability assessment, as the risk seems to be getting greater, are going down. Just to give you an idea from 20042008, there were 60 of those assessments from 450 airports. From 201120 13, that was reduced to 30 assessments annually. In 2014, only 12 of those assessments were covered. That means 97 of our nations airports were reviewed for security risk, despite the fact that we have had time and time again, whether it is in chicago or philadelphia or los angeles or in charlotte we have had these kinds of breaches that occurred. Scores of them has been people that have reached access to the runway at the airports, the refueling areas. Of 15yearold, a 16yearold can penetrate our security. In one instance, not even going to tech to after being revered. Than we are vulnerable. If they can do that and still away themself, someone with a different motivation could weigh in explosive on those airlines and not risk their lives. I hesitate to say these things publicly, but nothing has been done in terms of progress. Thats why when i wrote you congratulating you, i was very pleased to get a timely response and i appreciate that where you identify as a priority. I want to ask you where you are going with that, because it is important. And the chairman and i, when we were working on the subcommittee we had a field hearing one thing that was so obvious to us was the fact that this is a huge jurisdictional issue at these airports, and if things go wrong, they end up pointing fingers at each other. They are run by the Municipal Airport organizations, run by authorities, and this jurisdiction is unresolved. Even when the federal government comes in and says what you have to clean up, they dont do it. No one seems to make them do it. When you are doing that review the other thing you have to clear up is this jurisdictional issue, and if people are going from one airport to another, they are in the network. You are only as good as your weakest link and we are not even assessing more than 3 of those airports for safety. I want to just give you a minute to try and expand upon what you want to do Going Forward in dealing with this issue. And also with this jurisdictional problem. Mr. Neffenger congressman, you raise a number of important issues let me start by saying that i agree that Perimeter Security is a concern. I use my experience in the port environment to know this was one of the Biggest Challenges we had, trying to understand what is the perimeter and what to secure mean. The joint assessment that you mentioned, those are additional, multi Agency Assessments that are done in addition to the annual inspections done. There is a tsa regulatory requirement that we for phil i inspecting that we for still by inspecting the man that we fulfill by inspecting the perimeter. Then we go beyond the perimeter. Those are very important in concert. I want to make sure that the ratio of those is correct and i will look at that. I also need to attend one of these inspections to find out what they consist of. Anyone on this committee is welcome to join me, and i make the offer to the Committee Members, because i am very interested in how we are doing that. It goes back to my days trying to figure out how to secure port environments. I said, walking around, show me where the perimeter is, how do you secure that space, that space . Jurisdiction is key because you are right, you can do the wizard of oz thing, just point out everybody by yourself when it comes, but i need to know what are the extensive my authorities to direct action, and to compel action. Ideally, you do that in a partnership, because it is in everyones best interest. From my perspective, i think the airports, the airlines, and others would find a great benefit to ensure that nobody gets on that field who should be on the field. Rep. Katko thank you. I am rep. Keating thank you. I am optimistic that this will be a success. I look forward to working with you. If you could report to me with your progress it would be deeply appreciated. I yield back. Rep. Mccaul mrs. Watson coleman. Rep. Coleman thank you very much. Congratulations, admiral. You are very encouraging and you seem to have taken this excitement all with all high expectation, and with respect to those who get the job done on behalf of all of us, thank you. I have a couple questions. Number one has to do with the federal air marshal service. My understanding is that there hasnt been a class recruitment for nearly four years. Im wondering do you have any plan to address what this might represent . Are they still as necessary or is there something that is replacing the need for them . Mr. Neffenger thank you for that question. As you know, we have a new director of the federal air marshal service. I am really encouraged and enthusiastic about his approach, because he is coming with a very innovative set of eyes to look across the range of missions of the federal air marshals. I believe there is still value. I believe that they perform valuable missions. But i believe those missions have changed over time. The director is addressing some of those changes. They work a wide friday of missions, not just the aviation missions most people are familiar with. They also work on microteens and serve in joint Terrorism Task forces. May have been a unique, credentialed Law Enforcement perspective to thinking about the transportation world. That said, we have not hired for a long time in the federal air marshals. We have requested in our fy16 budget to begin the hiring process. That is an aging workforce 57 is mandatory r retirement. We will see some 30 of that workforce begin to age out. When you have a Law Enforcement agency, a federal agency, you need to refresh it. You need to grow new people and do it. I am hoping that our fy16 budget request will be met favorably and i hope we can begin to hire into what we are seeing and grow a new workforce as the mission changes over time. Rep. Coleman thank you. Another area that struck me as i was preparing for it today so do with the secure identification display area card. I understand that on occasion individuals who have had access to those cards have done things which were illegal, and which were not acceptable. I was wondering what are your plans with regard to greater accountability of those cards . Mr. Neffenger i think accountability is the key. As we were discussing earlier you have what should be a known and trusted population that you give those cards to. They get vetted for criminal background, and they get looked at continuously for potential nexus to terrorism. That said, we also know that you can still have criminal activity that occurs, and we have seen enough evidence of that over the past year. One of the things that came out of the incidents in atlanta last year the drug smuggling ring that was discovered, was the request by the secretary of the homeland the Aviation Security advisory committee, to take a hard look at the Insider Threat problem in the use of badges. They came out with 28 recommendations as a result of that. We accepted all 28, and we are working very closely to implement those overtime. A number were done immediately. Accountability was one of the ones. Im very concerned about accountability it has been surprising that people periodically lose or misplaced their badge. There needs to be a process for immediate notification, shutting down the badge and take whatever action is necessary in the event it was done deliberately or intentionally. Rep. Coleman thank you admiral. You have a big task ahead of you and i wish you the best of luck. I hope we can be of help. Thank you. Rep. Mccaul thank you. Let me close by saying that i think the secretary chose the right man for the job. We have enjoyed our conversations for the past several days and look over to working with you to improve both the safety of our airports and also making it more passenger friendly. The Committee Members may have additional questions in writing. Pursuant to the committee rules, the record will be held open for 10 days, and the committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] coming up on cspan, choco fatah chaka fattah response to federal indictments. Ashton carter and three other cabinet secretaries testify about the Iran Nuclear Agreement at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services committee. And tsa administrators are questioned about the Aviation Security. On the next washington journal, tom udall on toxic chemical regulations. Then john hoeven on energy and Climate Change and reports that the administration will reject the proposed keystone xl pipeline. Washington journal is life each morning on cspan. Phone in or connect with us on twitter or facebook. No pirate in history has ever fought the british navy and one. This is unheard of. Those pirates see the british navy and they run. He started to fight back. Is sunday night on q a, robert curse them on the search for the pirate ship and its wealthy captain, joseph banister. He started off not as a pirate but as a noble english sea captain, a gentleman, trusted by the area will be shipowners, to sail the Golden Fleece between london and port royal, jamaica. To carry valuable cargo like sugars indigo between london and port royal. For years he was responsible and noble, but one day in 1684, for reasons no one can quite determine, he stole the Golden Fleece recruited a pirate crew and went pirate. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern and pacific on q a. Today, the Justice Department announced indictments against chaka fattah on 29 counts, including bribery, money laundering, and Bank Fraud Charges related to his failed campaign for mayor of philadelphia. He faces a sentence of up to 100 years if convicted on all charges. He responded to the indictments. Rep. Fattah all right. What are your plans sir . Rep. Fattah well, im going to have lunch. This has been in a year process and i think we will have arrived at a moment where we will have actual allegations of wrongdoing. We have not received the indictment. I just spoke to my attorney in philadelphia. We have not had a chance to pursue it, but i did hear a little bit about it, and all i want to say is that i spent my time helping people, 25 million that we can count and i want to spend my time helping millions more. I will let my attorney handle this matter. It is obviously important to my constituents and i hope it will not be a distraction in terms of my work. Do you plan on staying on rep. Fattah how are you . This is not deflategate. This is the normal issue in which there are allegations after a very long run. I did note that when it started in 2013 the records are th ere. We now have actual allegations we have a chance to respond, but i stand by my previous statement that i have never intentionally dont wrongdoing. Any misappropriation of funds i think there is a lot for us to digest once we see the indictment. I understand its a federal charge not the people involved in it has never been involved in wrongdoing before, so the one thing i can agree with the u. S. Attorney on he said it was an allegation and that the people involved are innocent until proven otherwise. I have not spoken to speaker boehner, but im going to recuse myself from a leadership position until this matter is cleared up. Thank you so much. Im not the one making an allegation. Im confident in my statement and we will see how it goes. I have not been distracted yet. I will keep doing my work. Thank you. The cspan cities tour, working with our cable affiliates, that cities across the country. This weekend we are joined by comcast to learn more about the literary life and history of augustine, georgia. An award for the carnegie he was awarded the medal of honor posthumously for his actions in world war ii. While we have seen here in the Augustine Museum of history about 10 years ago a decision was made to do a military display, a Permanent Military display, to honor jimmy dyess. When i did my research on the book, i went through over 9000 recipients in the last 100 years, and the 3500 or so medal of honor recipient since the civil war. Turns out he is the only person ever to have earned both. I would almost he would almost for sure say that he did not deserve it. He would probably point to someone else who was more heroic. He was very humble. He never talked about the Carnegie Medal. When i interviewed people who knew him people who knew him well i said, what about the Carnegie Medal . They didnt know anything about it. I have known a lot of medal of honor recipients. Most of them will tell you, i didnt deserve this metal. It should have been given to someone else. Its that humility. We also visit the boyhood home of our 28th president woodrow wilson. President wilson moved to augusta when he was justyearold. He lived in another house then moved to this house when he was three. President wilsons very first memory was in november 1860 before he was four years old. He was standing on the front gate out of the front of the house, in two men came by in a hurry, very excited tones. They said Abraham Lincoln has just been elected president and theres going to be a war. Young tommy ran inside to ask his father what was war what did that mean, why were they so excited . We think its remarkable that his very first memory was about another president , Abraham Lincoln, and about another war the civil war. Wilson would have to leave the country through world war i. See all of our programs from augustine saturday at noon eastern on cspan twos book tv cspan2s book tv. For white house cabinet members and the chairs of the joint chiefs of staff testified about the Iran Nuclear Agreement at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services committee. This hearing focused on the military perspective of the deal with much of the testimony coming from defense secretary Ashton Carter and general martin dempsey. Senator john mccain shares this threehour hearing. Sen. Mccain good morning. The Committee Meets today on the joint country has a plan of action which the u. S. And other major powers have signed with iran. We welcome our distinguished witnesses and thank them for joining us today. We appreciate the senators and secretary moniz and lew being here. For the record, i did not request the presence of it secretary kerry or moniz or secretary lew. Im glad they are here, as their desire to do so. Since this focus is todays hearing its on a strategic and military implications of the iran agreement. What we want to know, among other things, is how this agreement will affect Regional Security proliferation, and the balance of power in the middle east, and what impact it may have on irans maligned activities and hegemonic ambitions in the region. What it means for perceptions of american credit ability and resolve among our allies and partners, and what the consequences are for u. S. Defense public hearing defense, policy. We concerted these broader strategic consequences of the agreement. What is already a bad deal only looks that much worse. To this committee perhaps the most concern about the agreement itself pertains to the verification and monitoring mechanisms, as has been verbally recorded, there will be no americans allowed on the ground. The details of how these monitoring activities will occur in certain important instances are contained in a separate agreement between the ieaa and iran which the u. S. And congress have not seen. Furthermore, the mechanism to resolve these longstanding concerns about the possible military dimensions of Irans Nuclear program is contained in another Side Agreement between iran. Which the u. S. Government and the congress have also not seen. To be sure, much is known about irans past weaponization activities but we can never know what we do not know, which is why the director of the ieaaea depends on resolution of the pod issue. How that will occur we do not know. This presents a major problem. All of us will soon vote on the iran agreement and the merits of this agreement hinges on its verifiability. And yet we cannot even read key documents pertaining to these verification others, and our government is not even a party to those agreements. I find it deeply troubling. What is more troubling are the broader military implications to this agreement. Iran is not just an arms control challenge, it is a geopolitical challenge. For years many of us have urged the administration to adopt a broader strategy to counter irans maligned activities in the middle east. Unfortunately, that is not happened. Instead, we have watched with alarm as irans military and intelligence operatives have stepped up their destabilizing activities and increased their influence and control in places like syria iraq, lebanon yemen, bahrain, and gaza. Iran has done all of this under the full pressure of sanctions. Now iran will soon receive a windfall of sanctions relief estimated at roughly 60 billion or possibly as much as twice that. Yes, a good amount of that money will surely go to irans domestic priorities. But its only fair to assume that billions of dollars will flow to irans revolutionary guards. Money that will likely be used to boost arms supplies to irans terrorist proxies to sew chaos and instability across the region and to double down on a bashar assad right when he needs it most. This posts a series of new challenges for our defense. Totally could this strengthen irans maligned activities in the region, but it will also enhance their acquisition of military capabilities. An International Arms embargo has significantly hurt irans ability to moderate sign to modernize its aging military. Throughout the nuclear negotiations, the administration insisted that its the policy was that its diplomacy was limited to the nuclear file. General dempsey told the committee that under no circumstances should we relieve pressure on iran relative to Ballistic Missile capabilities and arms trafficking. And yet thanks to less misconceptions thanks to lastminute concessions that is exactly what this agreement would do. The International Arms embargo would disappear, and iran would be able to acquire advanced military keep abilities like attack helicopters warships, and antiaccess weapons. Restrictions on Ballistic Missile programs will disappear and iran will be able to acquire through entirely illicit means the necessary material forevermore sophisticated Ballistic Missiles, including icmbs. And throughout this, iran will not only have billions of dollars to go on a shopping spree in the International Arms market but it is also sure to find plenty of states eager to sell those weapons especially russia and china. In this way the iran agreement not only paves irans path to a nuclear capability, it will further irans emergence as a dominant military power in the middle east. This has i direct and dangerous implications for u. S. Armed forces. The ultimate guarantee that iran will not give a Nuclear Weapon is not a 109 page document, it is the capability of the u. S. Military to do what is necessary if all else fails. And yet, this agreement would enable iran to construct a kind of advanced military arsenal that could make our military option. Instead of enhancing our deterrence is this agreement fails, the u. S. Service members called upon to take direction against the rim, their lives could be at greater risk because of this agreement. That is perhaps the most troubling aspect of all of this agreement. What is means for americas credibility in the middle east. Since 1979, republican and democratic administrations thought to contain the Islamic Republic of iran and prevent it from acquiring Nuclear Weapons capabilities. Our allies and partners have entrusted much of their own security to the u. S. Because they believed that our commitment. I fear this agreement will undermine our willingness to play that vital stabilizing role. Our allies and partners in the middle east have increasingly come to believe that america is withdrawing from the region and doing so at a time when i ran is aggressively seeking really seeking to advance its hegemonic indigents. Now we reached an agreement that will not only legitimized the Islamic Republic with a new Nuclear Enrichment capability, but will also unshackle this regime in its pursuit of conventional military power and may actually consolidate the Islamic Republic control in iran for years to come. After turning three decades of u. S. Foreign policy on its head, is it any wonder that this agreement may lead our allies and partners to question americas commitment to their security . If that happens, these states are increasingly likely to take matters into their own hands and indeed, we already see evidence of that. These fatal decisions may well manifest themselves in Regional Security competition in arms races, Nuclear Proliferation and possibly conflict. All of which would demand more, not less, u. S. Leadership and presence in the region. It would be ironic, but not historically unprecedented, that a diplomatic agreement intended to decrease risk of conflict actually increased those risks instead. All of us hope that will not be the case now. But it is the job of the Defense Department to be ready if our highest hopes fail us. And i fear there is much work to do. I welcome the witnesses, senator reed. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. Your appearance before the Committee Comes 2 weeks after the news that after 20 months of negotiations with p5 1 that iran agreed on the company has a plan of action. The agreement and your position on it is historic and is lamented scrupulously in the world relations with iran for International Nonproliferation efforts and for the political dynamics in the middle east. I commend the president and his Negotiation Team for their persistence and hard work. In the weeks ahead congress has a solemn obligation to carefully review the details of this historic agreement and independently validate that the agreement will meet our common goal of stopping iran from acquiring Nuclear Weapons. Todays hearing is part of that obligation, and i look forward to your testimony. Secretary kerry you were the key architect of this agreement. Your witness to take this thankless endeavor is commended. We would like to hear white you believe this is a good deal and how you intend to direct our did lets and partners in the region to address irans destabilizing activities in the region. Secretary moniz you played an aborted role in the negotiations, and you too have been a strong advocate for a company has of plan of action. Comprehensive plan of action. Is your cutting off irans pathways to Nuclear Weapons. Access and affordability of the supply chain. Three, the dedicated procurement channel and dualuse items. And four, the iaea particles articles to secretary carter, you are a unique secretary of defense with a phd in physics. I look forward to your expertise on these elements as well. Both secretary carter and general density, while neither of you will part of the negotiations, you both traveled to the middle east to speak with her counterparts about the potential locations for Regional Security. During your meetings, you spoke with our allies and partners on a range of issues. These are serious concerns and ones which i share. Our partners in israel see iran as an ongoing threat to their National Security interest. While Prime Minister and yahoo is ever likely to endorse this historic deal, Prime Minister netanyahu is never likely to endorse this historic deal. It is better or us to understand the concerns of the israelis. We will continue to stand alongside them as we confront common state and nonstate threats. In may 2015, the joint statement involving the Corporation Counsel meetings at camp david provided a roadmap for house in ministration. It also makes clear that they will be at the forefront of these efforts. The camp david statement outlines our commitment to enhancing the Ballistic Missile defense keep abilities and improving our operability to increase collective defense in order to counter irans terrorist proxies. The joint statement indicates that we will increase our training and exercises with gcc special operations elements to better enable our partners to confront irans asymmetric capabilities. I look forward to hearing about these elements today. I want to make one final point. These negotiations focused on denying iran a pathway to Nuclear Weapons. A nuclear iran would be a more Formidable Force in the region, and as it has repeatedly demonstrated, not a force for peace and stability, but one that supports terror and seeks to impose its will across the middle east. Moreover a nuclear iran would prompt in arms race in the region that could lead to catastrophe. None of us would condone or ignore irans support of terror or other destabilizing activities in the region. But the focus of these negotiations will focus on Nuclear Weapons. As fred kaplan, an expert, pointed out, science throughout the cold war didnt require the soviet union to disavow communism. But the deals were still very useful. They reversed the Nuclear Arms Race and provided a form or diplomacy a forum for diplomacy. I look forward to your responses as we continue to understand this agreement and evaluate pathways to Nuclear Devices and appropriate responses. Sen. Mccain secretary carter, can we begin with you . Secretary carter in your lead, if only i and general density may make opening statements. And a general dempsey. Thank you all the members of the committee for giving me the opportunity to testify this morning on our Defense Strategy towards this critical region. In the wake of my travels to the region last week, 2 weeks after the conclusion of the joint apprehensive plan of action. I am pleased to be joined mby my fellow cabinet members who can talk in detail about the agreement reached. That deal is an important step. One brought about by the leadership of president obama the persistent diplomacy of secretary kerry moniz, and that Congress Helped put in place. It is a good deal because it prevents iran from getting the Nuclear Weapon in a confidence of and verifiable way. In a company has a in a comprehensive and verifiable way. It will remove the one element of risk and uncertainty, but a critical element in the region. For those reasons, and those my colleagues have provided in testimony before other congressional committees, i urge you to support it. I also urge you to support the broader elements of the Defense Strategy in the middle east i will describe, including, and especially, by supporting a stable and reformed defense budget. The successful negotiation of this deal is one part of our broader foreign defense policy. As the most influential power in the world, we have responsibilities all over the world. The middle east remains important to Americas National interests. As a result, the permit of defense is committed to confronting the regions two principal security challenges. Iran and isil. The departments strategic approach to protecting our interests and confronting those challenges will remain unchanged. We will continue to maintain a Strong Military posture and deter aggression to bolster the security of our friends and allies in the region, especially israel. To ensure freedom of navigation in the gulf. To check irans maligned influence into the great and ultimately defeat isil. And to degrade and to ultimately defeat isil. We are also upgrading our military could abilities, should iran walk away from its commitment during this deal. Last week, i was in the middle east and had the opportunity to visit with some of our men and women in uniform who were carrying out this strategy. I know how much all of you care for them. And like me, you are proud of their impressive work. I will tell you this morning what i told them we are continuing for speed ahead. Standing with our friends standing up to isil, and standing against irans maligned activity. On isil, as i testified earlier this month, we have the right strategy in placem built on nine think revised lines of effort to achieve isils lasting defeat. But we continue to strengthen execution. Today in iraq and other places we are working with partners on the ground in Global Coalition to enable capable and motivated Ground Forces to win back iraqs sovereignty and peace on its own territory. I saw several parts of that effort last week and spoke with our partners on the ground. We are headed in the right effort. We have made some progress, but we need to make more. Anna ran on iran, this new deal when implemented, will place significant limitations on iran that will significantly cut off its pathways to material for a nuclear bomb. But it is also important to note that it places no limitations let me repeat that no limitations on what the department of defense can and will do to pursue our Defense Strategy in the region. It places no limits on our forces our partnerships and alliances, or our development and fielding of new military capabilities capabilities we will continue to advance. If iran were to commit a, our robust force posture ensures we can to commit aggression, our robust force posture in sewers ensures we can respond. Iran and its proxies will still pose security challenges. Iran backs hezbollah and lebanon , whos fighting positions i observed firsthand with the defense minister, and is contributing to disorder in yemen. Iran continues to be hostile toward israel. We will continue to build on and enhance our cooperation in meaningful ways. Ive made that clear last week in israel, saudi arabia, iraq, jordan and i made clear that we will keep our robust posture afloat, which includes tens of thousands of american personnel and our most sophisticated ground, maritime, air and Ballistic Missile assets. Our friends understand the merits despite our disagreements about the merits of this deal, that we have an enduring commitment to security. Our partnerships in the region have never been stronger. As i made clear in israel and as we agreed at camp david we are committed to making them Even Stronger and more capable against a range of threats. The United States will remain committed to israel. We will keep providing israel with advanced capabilities. Israel will be our first and only friend in the region flying the f 35 joint strike fighter. We continue to work with israel on Ballistic Missile defense systems, missiles of progressively increasing range. We are working to improve the capability and capacity of our golf partners, as the gulf partners. I stressed a number of areas that will be critical, including maritime forces, Ground Forces, including especially special operations and counterterrorism forces, and Ballistic Missile defense forces, and cyber protection. We also conduct di over 50 military exercises a year with our military partners, and we have offered sophisticated military equipment including longrange strike capabilities to some of our partners. In conclusion, this is a good deal because it removes the continued source of threat and uncertainty in a comprehensive and verifiable way. It is a deal that takes no option away from a future president. This is an important achievement and a deal that deserves your support. Meanwhile, the United States, the department of defense, and the men and women of the finest fighting force the world has ever known will continue, with your support to work in americans interests defend allies, and upholds the president s commitment that iran will not gain a Nuclear Weapon should it walk away from this deal. Mr. Mccain thank you. Mr. Dempsey. Mr. Dempsey i will keep my comments brief. As i have stated previously i was consulted during the course of the negotiations and provided my best military advice. It addresses a critical and the most dangerous point of friction with the iranian regime, but as i have stated repeatedly, there are at least five other areas of concern from weapons trafficking to the use of surrogates and proxies in naval minds and undersea activity, and last but not least, to malicious activity in cyberspace. The negotiated deal does not change the options at our disposal. We will continue to engage our partners in the region to address these areas. Ultimately time and iranian behavior will determine if the Nuclear Agreement is effective and stable. In the interim, i will provide my best military advice and options. With that, i look forward to your questions. Mr. Mccain we have a vote right now, and usually we vote we bounce back and forth, but i think this is important enough for us to recess. I would ask the indulgence of our witnesses. I apologize. If we could recess for 10 minutes while we are able to complete these two votes. I think this hearing is important enough not to have us bounce back and forth because i think all members would like to hear the complete testi. So again, my apologies. We will stand down for 10 minutes. Congress has not been made privy to. Could i ask that there are Side Agreements that congress has not been made privy to. Can i ask that that the Side Agreements have do with the weapons programs with the iranians. The inspection and verification of those programs, will we, in congress, receive the information concerning those Side Agreements in order to make a just meant as to the degree of verification . I think it is important that the content of those agreements and the manner in which they provide for verification of the nuclear undertakings that iran is making and the procedures of the iaea be known to the congress. I cannot to the actual documents themselves. It is an important part of the verification and agreement. Verification is an important part of any agreement. Let me ask the secretary if he wants to add anything this effect. Secretary i could certainly add to that. The agreement is that iran must cooperate for the iaea to complete its progress. To find the protocols. The protocols are very important, mr. Secretary. Will we be aware of those protocols. We know, with any agreement, the devil is in the details. Secretary all i can say is that i have not seen those documents. That is absolutely astounding that you have not seen the documents. They are required for verification. Secretary the agreement requires their cooperation with the iaea, whose independence is critical to all of us. It is critical to all of us that we have verification of the inspections of iranian committees because they have a clear record of cheating. We agree, all of us that we should see those instruments of verification, otherwise, how can we make a judgment as to whether this agreement can be enforced and verified with a country that has a long record of cheating . The iaea will take the information that iran must provide and complete the report. At that time, you will understand the iaeas confidence. We are depending on the confidence of the iaea . I dont think many of us would agree on that process. You told the committee a few weeks ago that under no circumstances should we really rusher on iran should we relieve pressure on iran. Now we see after five years, a relief of sanctions on conventional form conventional arms. How does that comport with the terms of this agreement with the statement you made the for the committee . It will not surprise you that my recommendation was to keep pressure on iran for as long as possible and that recommendation was made and entered into the negotiating us. I will say that time works for us, as well as iran, in this regard. With the agreement made and having the opportunity to give my advice, i support it. It. Mr. Mccain do you believe iran will change its behavior if this agreement is finalized and have you seen any indication of that . I have not, and speaking from my own judgment, i have no reason to foresee that. Thats why its important the agreement be verifiable. Thats why its important iran not have a Nuclear Weapon. Thats also why it is important that we do everything we need to do to defend our friends and allies, remain strong in the gulf, freedom of navigation, ballistic whistle defense, all of the things were doing. Ballistic Missile Defense all of the things were doing. The agreement does not limit us in anyway. If iran changes its behavior, that would be welcome, but i see no reason to foresee that. Mr. Mccain i see no reason to foresee it, and i see them now with about 50 billion to 60 billion with which to pursue those activities. I hear secretary lew and others say dont worry, they will use it for domestic purposes. They are doing it now with the assets they have. One can only imagine what they would do with 60 billion additional dollars. I know the witnesses have very busy schedules. I am grateful you sought to testify before the committee today in order to help us understand this issue, and i thank you. Senator reid. Mr. Reid thank you very much. You indicated in your statement that the United States has not given up military options with respect to the iranians. It has also not given up any military intelligence or National Intelligence with respect to iran. Those intelligence operations, i would presume, would be focused in great detail on potential violations of this treaty. Is that your sense . Yes, without going into detail here, it certainly is that we have intelligence activity focused on the uranium Nuclear Program. But on Everything Else they are doing. Malign activity, cuts force Ballistic Missiles, arms transfers, the whole thing. Its a very important intelligence effort. Mr. Reid i understand that general coffee indicated that he is confident, i think is a reasonable explanation, of the intelligence communitys ability to detect any significant violation of the treaties with or without direct contact with iaea. Is that a fair judgment in your mind . Yes cia director the the cia director and others all made statements that we would have far greater insight into the Running Program with the agreement. I would add that far greater insight will persist essentially forever. Mr. Reid general dempsey, in your military assessment, what is more effective in delaying or stopping the iranian Nuclear Program at this time or in the new year or in the near future . A military strike or this agreement . General dempsey i would like to point out that military options remain. I believe a negotiated settlement provides a more durable and reduces nearterm risk, which buys time to work with regional partners to address the other malign activities. But there are about five military implications. You have invited me here today to talk about the military applications. The first is it does reduce the risk of a nearterm conflict with iran over their Nuclear Program. Another military implication is we have to sustain those options. They have to be preserved into the future. Third, there is clearly opportunity for a ran to use some of the revenue they gain for malign purposes, and that bears watching in collaboration with our regional partners including israel. Fourth, this will require us to strengthen collaboration in that part of the world. Fifth, we should and will maintain our foreign presence. Those are the military implications. Mr. Reid in terms of the military expenditures, roughly double what the rainy and spend . What the iranians spend and has the capacity of going much higher, is that a Fair Assessment . Generall dempsey double is fair. Mr. Reid we have to make sure those resources are focused and can determine or defeat any aggression by there rainy ends or proxy aggression by the iranians or proxy aggression. We have a series of initiatives with the israelis to better position ourselves to address those other malign activities. Mr. Reid we have a situation developing rather resources are available. We are trying to reorganize in collaboration with the regional partners so they are much more effective to respond. So essentially, we are not ignoring these constant threats by iranians on the ground. Indeed, we are in a sense camping up our activities. Is that fair . Dash cam thing amping up our activities. Is that fair . This does cause us to increase our military we have to increase our attention to malign activities. Mr. Reid thank you. I am right now in the middle of one of the largest bills of the year. I am the sponsor. Therefore, i have not been in on all of this fun. I read this morning in the washington post, that president obama promised that the nuclear deal with iran would be based not on trust but unprecedented verification. It turns out it is based on trust after all, trust in two secret Side Agreements negotiated separately that apparently no one, including the Obama Administration has seen. Only the iaea and iran have yet to actually see it. The u. S. News world report says by law the administration is required to provide congress all contents of the deal. Secretary kerry do you agree with that an analysis of the law and what your requirement is . Mr. Kerry senator, let me just say to clarify the earlier part of the question, congress will be fully briefed on this agreement in a classified session, and indeed, one of our key negotiators, the day to day lead negotiator, wendy truman, was briefed on it, and ernie moneys was likewise briefed on it, so we are aware of what the basics are. It is standard procedure in the countries that have an agreement with the iaea, that are signed up with the mpt. Senator my question is, are we entitled mr. Kerry correct. Those that are part of the agreement, per se. This is by reference, and no country has access to the confidential agreements directly of the iaea. Senator i dont mean to interrupt you, but my time is limited. I cannot imagine that this would not be part of what we all were briefed on. Yesterday when congressman poe last the question, secretary rice said she asked the question, secretary rice said she had seen the deal and was going to share it with congress. At the same time or prior to the time that secretary rice saw it, did you see it . Mr. Kerry secretary rice has not seen it. She has been briefed on it. I gave her the exact quote. She has been briefed on it, she hasnt actually seen it. Senator i will give you her quote and make sure it is in the record. She said she did see it and did evaluate it. She said six days ago she had seen it and reviewed it, and that congress will get to see it in a classified session. Mr. Kerry senator you are quoting congressman poe. I corrected him with the direct quotes that we took from public record. Her quote is that she has been briefed, not that she has seen it. Senator i dont think that is correct. Mr. Kerry the White House Press briefing senator the hill magazine had something about that, and it was prior to the time it was six or seven days ago that we had a confidential briefing. I was there. You were there. Most of the people at this table were there. In a classified session you cannot say what was said, but was that addressed at all . Mr. Kerry it was. A question came up about it and the answer was given that of Course Congress will be briefed with respect to the contents, and of course you need to be briefed. Everybody needs to be briefed. Senator my point is that was a classified session where we were to be briefed at that time and we werent. Mr. Kerry i dont think we had the full material too brief. I didnt have it come anyway. But we are prepared, and i think Wendy Sherman is going to be briefing shortly on that. What we did providing can provide is the actual roadmap that the iaea put out and the iaea has issued a full roadmap of their expectation senator i understand that. But i am talking about the secret document. Mr. Kerry its a confidential agreement. Its being postured as this its a confidential agreement which is the standard of the iaea. We have lived with the iaea for years. Historically, they always create what is called a comprehensive safeguard agreement, a csa which they negotiate with the country, and we dont get that its not shared with the world. The reason it is confidential has to do with what you can get out of that country, but we do get briefed on it. We are aware of it. Secretary moneyonize may have tightened it up a bit. You have confidence in it. Senator i would say as chairman it is incomprehensible that we did not have full access to that and i think most people agree with that. But my time is expired. Thank you. Mr. Mccain senator nelson. Senator nelson thank you gentlemen all. Thank you for your public service. Secretary loew, i want to go down a different road. We have heard so many commentaries about how much of a windfall the sanctions relief would be for iran. We have heard over 150 billion dollars. The chairman is speaking of 50 billion. Tell me if this is correct. Sanctions relief of what has been withheld is about 100 billion. But within that 100 billion there are contractual obligations of iran to pay some 50 billion, and therefore, the net that would approximately come to iran would be about 50 billion. Is that somewhere in the ballpark . Jack lew that is correct. The one thing i would add is there is between 50 billion dollars and 60 billion that is accessible, but that money is not sitting senator but thats where i wanted to go. That money is sitting in foreign banks, is it not . Jack lew it is sitting around the world in china, india and many other countries. Senator china india japan taiwan uae, those banks . Check loop correct. Jack lew correct. Senator therefore, even if we deny the lifting of economic sanctions, that money is in the hands of foreign banks. What, in your professional opinion, is the likelihood that money would the released . Jack lew to be clear, that money belongs to iran. It has gone in foreign accounts and it is sitting there. If the deal were to be rejected, the question is what do the other banks do. I dont think they will feel bound to hold the money the way they have held it in escrow away from iran. I think with out without a Nuclear Agreement, some of that money will start going back to iran, if this agreement is rejected. Senator so, to recapitulate, if we were to reject it, the money is likely to flow because it is in the hands of foreign banks who would not be compelled to it here to the United States wishes at that point, is that correct . Jack lew we do have sanctions we could impose in other ways, but this money in banks, we could not lock it up directly. We need the cooperation of other governments and Central Banks to keep this money from iran. Just to add one more detail, i think the notion that somehow a 60 billion check gets written is wrong. This is the reserve they need to settle foreign transactions. They are already doing transactions in some countries using foreign reserves and exchange. They still need to buy things overseas. They cannot just spend all this money or their ability to conduct International Commerce goes away. They have hundreds of billion dollars billions of dollars of competing domestic needs. While i cannot say they will not use it for malign purposes, i have never said that, i do think their ability to use this has been exaggerated. Senator can you explain to the committee the ability the United States government will have on the uranium and plutonium programs as a result of the agreements stating there have to be modifications and or dismantlement of the plutonium reactor . Price yes, senator. On the uranium centrifuges, we will have yes, senator. On the Uranium Center fuses centrifuges, we will have technology to make sure the idle ones are locked up and used only as replacements for broken ones. For 20 years we will have containment and surveillance of all manufacturing of the centrifuge parts. As general clapper said, we have tremendously enhanced insight into their program. On the plutonium they will be required to take out the core part of the reactor, fill it with concrete, and then with international collaboration, and we will be part of that, we will make sure that the replacement reactor is the one that produces reduces plutonium production by a factor of about 10, way below the amount needed for a weapon. Secondly, they have also agreed that the spent fuel for life will be sent out of the country. We have very good containment there. Senator thank you mr. Chairman, and thanked all of you. I have been a member of an chair of the strategic Sub Committee over the years. It has been a unified view of the worlds developed nations that iran not have a Nuclear Weapon. It is a grave threat to peace in the world. Henry kissinger sitting where you are said a few months ago that if iran gets a Nuclear Weapon, proliferation dangers are very real, and that is why the whole world is very worried about where we are. I believe the initial era of negotiations commenced in 2000 nine after president bush had pulled back because of the behavior of iran. We have been exceedingly warned that talking can be a trap, and the deeper we get into this talk, the less able we are to take corrective action and alter the situation as we see it. Now i am afraid we have in the goal that we had pretty well unanimous with the world behind. Secretary carter, do you believe iran represents the worlds foremost sponsor of terrorism . Mr. Carter state sponsor, probably so. Unfortunately, it is such a kaleidoscope these days that there are lots of sources of terror, but i think for state sponsorship. Senator i think that is a consensus. Secretary kerry testified yesterday that yesterday in the house. I wish it were not so. There is a dream that somehow iran can be brought in from the cold and we can work with them but i believe it was the former advisor to president reagan, but mcfarland, who said revolutionaries dont go back on the revolution. Do you believe that Supreme Leader khamenei remains committed to the revolutionary goals of the iranian revolution . Mr. Carter i read what he says which suggests that he does. Senator i dont believe he has any intention to abandon that. He was recently at an event and led a rally. Chance punctuated the rally death to america, death to israel. Do you believe those reflect his views . Mr. Carter again, i am not an expert. But it certainly seems so, and that is a reason to be concerned about irans support for terrorism and especially to make sure they dont get a Nuclear Weapon, which is key. Senator i think that is the only conclusion we can reach that he means what he says. We can think it strange but it is serious. It represents a radical ideological agenda of this regime, which makes it a pariah regime, a danger to the entire world. Negotiating an agreement that allows them to obtain missiles is also dangerous, even if it is five years or eight years out. Iranians are very patient. You asked earlier about this and said the reason we want to stop iran from having an icbm program is because the eyes stands for intercontinental, which means having the capability i stands for intercontinental, which means having the capability to fly to the United States. After eight years, they have been able to cheat and purchase on the open market items that could help them build an icbm system capable of reaching the United States. Mr. Carter i am and i think we all need to be concerned about their missile at todays missile activities with or without this agreement. I spoke earlier about Missile Defense of israel. Senator you say they should not have this capability and we should stop it, and this agreement, does it not allow them to purchase anything they need on the world market . Mr. Kerry no, senator. Let me answer that. Eight years represents the best we were able to negotiate with three countries of the seven who said there should be nothing. But we were comfortable accepting the idea of the eight. We were comfortable because we have a number of other tools already available to us which we could apply to be able to prosecute their efforts with respect to myself two missiles specifically. We have the executive order of the president of the United States which allows him to sanction anybody who is providing any materials for missile construction. We have the Proliferation Security Initiative with 100 countries which allows us to block the transfer of materials for weapons construction. We have the irannorth korea syria nonproliferation act. We have huge tools available to us way into the future. Senator it seems like the last agreement would trump that. Mr. Kerry there is no trumpeting of anything. Senator i dont know what the language is in their is in there if it has no meaning. Mr. Kerry this protects us with respect to missile development. We also have u. N. Sanctions that prohibit the flow of weapons to has below, to iraqi shia, too senator they are flowing now are they not . Mr. Kerry indeed, because they have not been enforced. Which is why the administration has decided we need to do this more effectively and i am meeting to layout the specifics of the proposal of how were going to push back against iran. You have adequately and appropriately pointed to the rhetoric of the leader and to the things they are doing. Simple question. If that is what they want to do are we better off preventing them from getting a Nuclear Weapon, or do we want to go right back to where they were where they had 19,000 centrifuges, enough for 10 to 12 bombs . Dont be looking 10 to 15 years down the road