Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

Join us this saturday for our live coverage of the harlem book fair, the nations literary event. On sunday, the author and code pink cofounder. Saturday we are live from the Nations Capital for the National Book festival, celebrating its 15th year followed by our live indepth program. That is a few of our upcoming, live programs. Vice President Biden spoke at the center for american progress. He focused his remarks on issues and people can get involved with to create progressive change including gun control, the environment, and Campaign Finance reform. This is 40 minutes. You are working on something that has been near to my heart before there was an issue and people are willing to face the reality that millions were being victimized by standards that needs to change. I want to thank her for her leadership. It is great to be back here. Wheeze to say in the senate, you take me back. You remind me why i got involved in the first place. I know you had a full day. You got a chance to speak during the breakout sessions. I basically came to say thank you. For me it started with the Civil Rights Movement, but it moved on from there. When i got to the senate i just turned 30. I remember when we talk about Student Loans we think about it in terms of qualified students who will be denied an opportunity, but i think of it in terms of the mother and father who dream of opportunities for their kid but feel inadequate because they cannot find the resources to get their child to school. I was a pretty good athlete but i still needed money. I asked the secretary where he was. He saw me and said, i am so sorry. I went to the bank to try to borrow money to put the kids in school. I am so sorry. When we dont give a child an opportunity, it deprives the parent of dignity, because there is nothing worse to parents and to look at a child and to know there is nothing they can do to help. That is the first bill i introduced when i wrote the violence against women act. [applause] im not saying that for credit but i want to remind you why what you are doing is so important. When i wrote that act no one was for it. They thought it would take the focus off other issues. I was told there was nothing we could do about it, but i didnt believe that. We persisted. For 17 years i was the Ranking Member of the judiciary committee. What you are focusing on is my passion all these years for reform in gun violence. Immigration reform was an issue in my first campaign. The way workers were treated was an abomination. Lgbt issues have been the civil rights of our generation. All of this is about making sure people have the dignity they deserve and the middle class has a level playing field. I know i am referred to as a joke in washington. I am middleclass joke. It means you are not sophisticated, but i am middleclass. The reason i talk about the middle class is simple. When the middle class do well the poor have a way up. There are all of these things that are animating your passions. It is a simple proposition. My person is entitled to dignity. The absence of economic opportunity, i applaud your passion. I really mean this, and i urge you to never apologize. Passion is what changes circumstances in this country. What i would like to talk about is how you transfer it to change in this country. It takes a lot of courage. It is about asking what you are willing to lose over as well is what you are willing to fight over. Because i got elected as a kid i wondered there had to be a secret i found out about. I urge you all to think about this. What are you willing to lose over . What is so important to you that you would rather lose then capitulate . If you cant answer that question, you are in the wrong endeavor. Here is the truth. No major issue to the American People disagree with what we are fighting for. Marriage equality, Immigration Reform Early Childhood education, gun violence prevention i could go on and on. Something like 70 to 90 of people agree on every one of those issues. It is not a question of convincing the American People that we are right on the issues that we are for, it is a question of demanding political courage of elected officials to meet the expectations of the American People. Courage they only find if the people manned them to demonstrate it demand them to demonstrate it. You should be proud how you have already moved this country. You in this room have moved your generation. We had a huge victory on Marriage Equality last month. It was a horrific battle waged by men and women in the lgbt community. Some of them risked their lives in the fight by coming out. But your generation you are the cultural tipping point. You changed the nature of the discussion in america. You altered it. Now there is a fullfledged acceptance. We still need you. Today, where there is the freedom to marry in 50 states, and more than half the states marriage can be recognized but that same day you can be fired from your job just because you are lgbt. Just because you are lesbian, gay or transgender. No explanation is required. In 32 states, you are fired. It is outrageous. The reason why it persists in my view is that the American People dont know what can be done, even in those states. That is where you guys come in. You have the passion and the energy to bring to the people of those states the knowledge that this can happen. I get roundly criticized for coming out when others anyway. [laughter] coming out on television for Marriage Equality. Here is the point i want to make. Thank you, i realize i am an unusual politician trying to dampen applause [laughter] all kidding aside, i was absolutely certain. I was taking no chance. I made a bet with some very common in people who you would know if i mentioned their names, that overwhelmingly the American People agreed with me, and they did because they are decent. One of the things you can do better than anyone else is give voice to what is happening. American people are basically he sent. Once decent. Once you give voice to it consistently enough, unrelentingly enough, the public will demand of their leaders that they respond. Fighting unemployment discrimination is a next big thing. Just as you made Marriage Equality the case of your generation, you can make gun violence prevention the case of your generation now. [cheers and applause] you can. There is this socalled white crime bill that passed in the early 1990s. We made great progress. We didnt have assault weapons and we had extensive background checks and so forth. Crime dramatically dropped during that period. What happened . In order for me to get it done i had to agree that it would be reauthorized in 10 years. 10 years to around on a republican watch. The tragedy of al gore having lost that election to the Supreme Court was tragic. It would have been very different the previous eight years. It all got wiped out. As the president said, in this great country of ours, why are we the only great civilized country where there is carnage after carnage. No response after 20 children and six of those massacred in newtown, the president asked me to put together the legislative agenda of sensible gun control we believe the American People accept. From banning military style assault weapons, to background checks, to making schools safer, Mental Health services and so one. With a lot of help and a brilliant staff, i put together a package. We announced to the American People and we went on the road to sell it. And we sold it. Overwhelmingly to the American People. But we called on congress to pass it, it didnt move at all. We waged an aggressive effort to make the case to the people, and collectively we succeeded. 90 of the American People, 85 of households with members of the nra supported it. 90 of people in red states. 85 of households with an nra member in it supported the rational proposal we put forward on background checks. Those Public Officials who were asked to step up they didnt have to worry about being outspent. Because of a guy i like a lot, michael bloomberg, and because of two really fine people, congresswoman Gabby Giffords and mark kelly [cheers and applause] but combined it was the first time in a legislative shoot out that the nra was outspent, and we still failed. Why . In my opinion, because of the political influence of extremely powerful groups, not just the nra, but the gun lobby and manufacturers, elected officials were unwilling to risk their seats based on past examples rather than do what they knew to be the right thing to do. I have observed that there is a consistent attribute of human nature that affects the decision not only of elected officials but all of us. Never underestimate the ability of the human mind to rationalize. I dont know how many members told me, i cannot take the risk, because if i lose you wont have me here to help on food stamps or the other good things. It is called rationalization. You are all susceptible to it. Everybody is. Something that i urge you to do is to first understand and expose those elected officials who were otherwise good people. They are, by the way. Who engage in this rationalization. They will do it with you. I cannot do it in my state because of when i introduced gun legislation, my state has the third highest percentage of gun ownership in any state in the nation. The nra went at me hammer and nail. Told all of the hunters that i would take away their shotguns. I am living proof to tell you there is nothing special about me. If you go out and make the case, it is common sense and you stand by your convictions, we can win. If you help us make the case on rational gun policy what it should be, it makes it so much more difficult for elected officials who dont have enough courage sometimes cannot rationalize. To not rationalize. Environmental awareness is what got my generation involved with the Civil Rights Movement in the 1970s. Those are one of the three things i ran on. Civil rights, the issues with iran as important as this was to my generation, it is so much more important now. For your children, your grandchildren and your greatgrandchildren. Climate change israel, azriel Climate Change is real, it is as real as gravity. Why do most republicans who know that and understand the danger why they continue to persist in this fiction . Since day one, at your insistence, the president has carried out the most consequential efforts to curb pollution, to develop Renewable Energy here at home, but again i think the coordinated city i city, state i state, national tax on common sense, provided by billionaires and multimillionaires and Interest Groups, has been extremely effective. What happens again . What is the rationale . A congressman who you know knows better, and they will say we cannot do that extreme climate legislation, because we will lose jobs at home. It will hurt the economy. It will cost ordinary people opportunity. Which you know, none of which is true. So you and i, we have to change the calculus. We have to make it impossible for an entire Political Party that i to deny Climate Change, we will witness fight that we need to win sooner than later. Every month, every year, that is why we need you so badly. To demand elected officials confront the truth. More jobs will be created that eliminating the damages of Climate Change and mitigating them. Then will be kept by not doing anything about it. Same with immigration. I recently had the opportunity to meet with lee kwan you before he died. He was the president of singapore, a brilliant guy who wrote extensively on the future of india, china, the United States and russia. He recently passed away. I was coming from mumbai, india to meet with ahbed, and i got a call from singapore, what i sit down and meet with lee kwan yu. We were talking about how rapidly she has consolidated power in china. We were talking about how quickly she consolidated power in a said about five minutes into it, i said mr. President , what are the chinese doing now . Meaning what are they contemplating next . And he said they are in the United States. They are looking for the buried black box. I looked at him like youre looking at me but i cant see because of the lights. [laughter] i smiled and i said this was when the aircraft went down in the ocean and they could not find the black box, i said, mr. President i am confused. He said they are looking for that box buried in the United States and contains the secret that allows america to be the only country in history to be able to constantly remake itself. And i said, well mr. President im old enough to presume to give you the answer. They will find two things in that black box. One is, stamped in the dna of every naturalized and nativeborn american is an absolute skepticism for orthodoxy. As bad as the Elementary School education is, there never criticized for traveling orthodoxy in america. Unlike every country in the world including britain, france or anywhere else. That is how we make new things. We challenge orthodoxy. The second thing they will find is before the declaration, and unrelenting stream of immigration. Not in trickles, but in great waves throughout the history of our country. And why that is important, mr. President , is we are able to cherry pick the best talent from every culture. I really mean this. A lot of people think hurt people sit around and a lot of poor folks in will of her on the table in their kitchen and say that sell everything we have, go to a country that doesnt want us and we dont speak the language wont that be fun . The people believed to come here are the people with the best imaginations and the greatest amount of courage and the best initiative. [cheers and applause] that is a fact. That is who we are. What we are doing is robbing ourselves of the lifeblood of ingenuity, progress, locking Immigration Reform ignores 70 of the people who already agree with us. So why isnt it being done . Here for the resistance there is more than one reason. It is not just Interest Groups. There is a deepseated antipathy, some bordering on hate and racism that creates stereotypes about immigrants. All you have to do is listen to the republicans right now. Think about it. At the end of the day, what is thwarting our ability to legislate, is the increased power and influence of special Interest Groups particularly focused on state legislative bodies. If we democrats have made any mistakes, we focus on only the makeup of the congress, the makeup of the senate. If the Koch Brothers can go into illinois and spent 250,000 per seat, which is more than anyone usually raises. And change the dynamic in the state. We have to get smarter. All of the action isnt only here in the congress. I could go on, but i wont. If you could do only one single thing, only one, to increase fairness, equity, opportunity and pass rational gun control, deal with immigration, what would it be . I can tell you what one thing i would do . It would be, get private money out of political process. [cheers and applause] the first bill ever introduced at the time was a bill i introduced in 1973, calling for a limitation on how much could be spent in a congressional election, and a senate election, guaranteeing challengers would have as much money as the incumbent and capping it. I ran in 1972 as a middleclass kid who just paid off his college and law school loans with a law firm just getting on to its feet. I was able to run a campaign because i could organize people. I won in the year when nixon was running, when my opponent was twice as wellfunded, and was a 40year incumbent with an 81 favor rating. Today i ask myself, if i were in the same exact position, 29 years old in the state of delaware, and i wanted to run with same ideas and ability to organize, could i possibly do it . I would have to raise multiples of 300,000. Per capita, delaware is one of the most expensive campaigns in the nation, because it is one of the only places with no television and you have to pay for 10 Million People, 9 million of whom if the voted for you would be indicted. What are we doing . Were cutting off access for so many of you, for so many bright young minds, the only way they can get engaged is they have to go where the money is. Where the money is there is almost always, implicitly some string attached. No one buys anyone directly. If that happens it is rare. It is also hard to take a lot of money from a group that you know has a particular position, and even if you think they are wrong, to vote no. Ladies and gentlemen, i predict that one day the American People will wake up, and they will demand change. Today it will require a constitutional amendment. I introduced the first constitutional amendment on this, limiting dollars. When i raise it these days they say, no we cannot do that. So what do we have to do . Whether running for Senate Congress or president i cannot disarm, i have to do the same thing. We can argue that our Interest Groups are better than theirs. We can argue that we are less selfserving. That may be true. But guys, why do you think the middle class thinks things are not on the level . What chance do you think we have to get the kind of income tax system i have been waiting for my whole life . What you think the chances of getting that are . People are not going to supply money against their own interests. We are not bad people. I have been pushing to change my entire career. It is outrageous. People with a whole lot of money are the ones on unearned income. Why are they going to give you the money . Folks, we have to start in our own party. Better be demanding of all of us. At least in our own party fights , that we adhere to a policy that doesnt rest on millionaires and billionaires. They are good people. It is a hell of a way to run a democracy. The first place you have to start is in the democratic party. No matter how much you love me or somebody else, you have to demand of us that we demonstrate that we understand. We can do something about the corrosive impact of massive amounts of money. We can demand that the people who we support dont yield to millionaires. Take their money in limited amounts. What are we doing . I know a lot of people will read into me saying something i am not intending. I am talking about any individual. But if we cant even start with our own party, to even say do not disarm in the general election and do it there. With our own party. We can get support. Even if we are outspent significantly. This is not hyperbole, if we have you. The young and passionate advocate. If i get a chance to go on television with millions of dollars or i am able to put 2000 volunteers on the street, i take 2000 volunteers for real. Dont underestimate your ability to influence all of us. Who are tempted to yield to the temptation. If i dont, all the good i can do will be gone. The way i have to do it, even if it doesnt compromise will convince average middleclass people that i dont care about them and they will not trust me. We have to speak up. I know that a lot of what i just said sounds polly annish to you, but i have been around longer than the other guys. Im telling you it can be done. It always is done with generations like yours. And in 1972, as a 29yearold kid, the war in vietnam was raging. With the Womens Movement you are criticized if you raised the issue. Politics was as dirty and corrupt and corrupting, so the temptation of that generation to drop out was no less than the temptation of your generation to say be damned with it, it is not worth it, it cannot happen. A whole bunch of us disagree. If we change things, we ended a war. We completed the Civil Rights Movement as it was pictured at the time. We generated a genuine begetting of the Womens Movement. Not me, my generation. If you look at what the odds were, they were slim to none. The only message i want to leave you with you have the talent, the intellect and the passion to the passion and commitment. I dont want you to get discouraged. I dont want you to get discouraged. I promise you. If you keep doing what youre doing, if you generate and increase your numbers, if you never apologize for your passion, if you always gird yourself against the temptation to rationalize, if you are willing to listen to the other side to generate consensus, this can all get done. That is the only way we can make progress in this country. In the history of the world. You have already made a great deal of difference in the lives of American People. People in this room already have. There is even more reason now to be idealistic and optimistic and tenacious than at any time. Think of it this way and then i will get out of your hair. If youre ever going to be involved in public affairs, in whatever forum, this is the time to do it. Things are changing. They are changing and they are going to change. No matter what you do. The question is how they change. There are few periods in American History we call them inflection points. I remember my civics professor defining what inflection points were. Driving 60 miles an hour down the road and you abruptly turn to the right are the left. You can never get back onto the path that you were on. That is what happened. Not because of barack obama and joe biden or anyone else but because these are moments of great change. William buckley wrote a poem called easter sunday. It talked about the first rising in ireland in the 20th century. He said all has changed, changed utterly, but terrible beauty has been born. That description is more apt to today than it was then. All has changed in the last 15 years. If we have our hands on the wheel, if we have unlikely periods of status quo, we have a chance to bend history just a little bit. It is only going to be done by you. I mean this sincerely. It is only going to be done by young, decent, passionate people of principle. That is how all change has taken place. Let me conclude by saying that i came to thank you and to tell you that we badly, badly, badly need you. Dont get despondent. Dont disengage. Disrupt the status quo. Make noise. [cheers and applause] take everybody on and dont ever settle for it cant be done. God bless you all. Thanks. [applause] coming up, the Senate Finance committee, holding a hearing on potential fraud on the healthcare. Org, the web site monetary policy. On the next washington journal, fawn johnson looks at the Highway Trust Fund which is set to expire. What they plan to do about it. Then the book lets get free. After that, Eu Ambassador to you the United States david osullivan, talks about the greek economic crisis and white lawmakers approved austerity measures and why lawmakers approved austerity measures. Washington journal, live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. Today, democrats on the house will host a forum on Climate Change in annapolis, maryland. We have headlines at 11 00 a. M. Eastern here on cspan. Cspan gives you the best access to congress. Live coverage. Congressional hearings and news competence. Ringing you events that shape public policy. Every morning, washington journal is live with elected officials, policymakers and journalists and your comments by phone, facebook and twitter. Cspan, created by americas Cable Company and brought to you as a Public Service by your local cable or satellite provider. On thursday, the Senate Finance Committee Held the hearing focused on gao report on fraud. The hearing is an hour. This meeting will come to order. Good morning everybody. In todays hearings we will address controls of the healthcare. Gov website. The committee will hear from the director of auto Audit Services from the accountability office. Santo am i getting that right . It is close. The Directors Team has led in undercover investigation to test internet controls of the healthcare. Gov and to review the center for medicare and Medicaid Services handling of this program. This investigation was designed to determine the degree to which the administrations federal help and Service Exchange can protect against fraudulent applications. What happens when they provide false information and toppled documentation and whether controls are successful in dealing with irregularities once they are found. Perhaps i should say a spoiler alert before this next part. Today the doctor will explain how the federal exchange failed spectacularly on virtually all relevant accounts tested. For this investigation gao created fictitious identities to apply for subsidies through the exchange. We learned last year that 11 out of 12 fake applications were approved, without attempting to verify authenticity and and rolled fake applicants while handing out thousands of dollars in premium tax subsidies. One year later gao has reported that nothing has changed and if anything, there are more problems. The administration has known about these problems for over a year and has apparently taken the necessary steps. While they say they are balancing consumer access to the system, it is clear what is going on here. Since the federal exchange was first implemented success hasnt measured by a number of applicants that signed up for insurance. Last year, when the administration reached its initial enrollment goal, critics were no longer told that we had been wrong all along and that the law was working just fine. With these findings it seems obvious, at least to me, that the administration has been preoccupied with signing up as many applicants as possible, ignoring attentional fraud and integrity issues along the way. Now supporters of obama care insist that it is the law of the land and congress should work to improve rather than repeal. On the first part they are unfortunately correct. For the foreseeable future the Affordable Care act is the law of the land. On the second part among Congress Continues to work toward the repeal of the misguided law and replace it with patientcentered reform. That puts patients and set up eurocrats in charge of their decisions. Needless to say that they will not common to other is a president who shares our goal. In the meantime theres an obligation to exercise rigorous oversight and to work to protect both beneficiaries and taxpayers from negative consequences. That is what todays hearing is about. We are here to get an account on how things are working on the federal exchange and what we have heard thus far is not reassuring. He does not speak well for their management of healthcare. Gov, the protection of taxpayer dollars, or the experience of an release. Of enrollees. It does not just expose gaps but also how these americans were trying to solve were correct applications. Time after time, the team set information for verification, only to have it ignored or have the exchange respond as if something entirely different had been sent in. The fact they encountered mindboggling efficiency at every turn, it does not bode well for the experience. I look forward to todays hearing and what i hope of be a good discussion. Before i conclude i want to note that even though this was requested by the committee cms was less than cooperative. Through the entire endeavor, they appeared to be dragging their feet and going past deadlines. When Congress Asked gia to conduct an inquiry no federal agency should stand in the way of that work. By delaying the gio cms has delayed his committees work and hurt our efforts. This is unacceptable. Despite promises of increased transparency and cooperation this type of stonewalling is far too common. Acting cms administrator was personally involved in this process. As the Committee Considers his nomination i look forward to asking him about this investigation and white cms has been and why cms has been interfering. Today, we have our hands full as we hear testimony about this important investigation. I will turn it over to senator wyden. Sen. Wyden on this side of the aisle we do not take a backseat to anybody in fighting fraud protecting taxpayer dollars. One dollar ripped off is one too many. Lets be very clear. The report up for discussion today is not about any realworld fraud. The study looks at one dozen fictitious cases and not one of them was a real person who filed taxes or got medical services. No fast buck fraudster got a government check sent their bank account. The government auditors acknowledged today, and i want to quote here, their work cannot be generalized to the full population of applicants or any enrollees. None of the fictitious characters stepped foot in a hospital or doctors office. When you actually show up for medical services, it is a lot harder to fake your way into receiving taxpayer subsidized care. Grexit if you have stolen and identity, there is probably a medical history belonging to someone else that ought to set off alarm bells. If you are a real person signing up in the marketplace, you have to attest under penalty of perjury that the information is correct. If you falsify the application you face the prospect of a fine of up to 250,000. Another major fraud check went unchecked in the study. That is squaring up tax returns and your insurance application. The General Accounting Office calls it a key element the back end control. If your tax return and personal information do not match it stops. The study ignores that antifraud as well. It only looks at a part of the picture when it comes to stopping fraud. There are already methods of strengthening programs and rooting out the fraudsters and ripoff artists. Part of any smart, ferocious strategy in fraud on one hand is drawing ss distinction between aggressively going after the ripoff artist, and the other, not harming a lawabiding american to have made an honest, and technical mistake. The retiree nearing medicare age should not get kicked to the curb because he or she accidentally submitted an incorrect document. A transgender american should not have forms not match and lose. This is a system that nixes the Health Insurance coverage for some americans because of those issues. A recent talent report stated gallup report states that Health Insurance by americans is the lowest they have measured. This is the first hearing since the Supreme Courts land left landmark decision to uphold the law to make that possible. The fact is of the Affordable Health care act has extended coverage to more real people who use their Insurance Coverage to see real doctors. At some point down the road, the gao is expected to complete the report, at that time, unless work on a bipartisan basis to drunken conclusions about how this committee can Work Together to improve American Health care. Thank you. The witness today is the director of Audit Services for the Investigative Service mission team. He has served in a variety of positions, including legislative advisor in the office of investigations. He has also served on the Senate Finance committee and the House Committee on homeland security. In his private sector career, he has held a number of senior positions in cold consultancies, most recently focusing on homeland security. He earned a degree in International Relations and an mba and strategy from pepperdine. We welcome you and are interested in your statement. Mr. Bagdoyan thank you. I am pleased to be here today to discuss the tests assessing the enrollment control of the marketplace set up after the Affordable Care act of 2010. As mentioned, we reported our preliminary results in july of 2014, we performed 18 undercover tests, 12 of which involve online applications. The tests were designed to identify indicators of potential control weaknesses in the marketplace enrollment process specifically for year 2014, and to inform the ongoing arithmetic a Forensic Audit of these controls. I would note that these tests cannot be generalized to the population of applicants or and reallys or enrollees further we shared the applications during the course of the test to seek responses. In this regard tms officials stated they have limited capacity to respond to attempts, and they must balance consumers ability for coverage with Program Integrity concerns. Without providing details on how and when, these officials stated they intend to assess the marketplace of eligibility determination process. In terms of context, Health Care Coverage offered through the marketplace is a significant expenditure in the government. Current levels of coverage include several million enrollees, about 85 of them are estimated to receive subsidies. They estimate subsidy cost at 28 million. Billion dollars. A program of this scope and scale is inherently at risk for errors, including improper payments and fraudulent activity. Accordingly it is essential that there are controls in place to help narrow the window of opportunity for such risk, hence the importance. With this backdrop, i will now discuss some of the results, the marketplace approves subsidized coverage for 11 of our 12 fictitious applicants. They obtained about 30,000 in tax reddit plus eligibility for lower cost at time of service. For seven of the 11 applicants we intentionally did not submit all required verification documentation to the marketplace, but it did not cancel coverage or reduce or eliminate subsidies. I would note that while subsidies, including those granted to the applicant are not granted directly to enrollees they never the less present a financial benefit to the consumers. As part of the verification process, the marketplace did not accurately record all inconsistencies which occur when Applicant Information does not match the Information Available for marketplace verification sources. Also the marketplace resolved inconsistencies based on fabricated documentation further the marketplace did not terminate any coverage for several types of inconsistencies, including Social Security data. We found errors in information recorded by the marketplace for tax filing purposes for three of our 11 enrollees, such as incorrect coverage. Or subsidy amounts. Under the aca, filing a federal income tax return is a key control element designed to ensure that premium subsidies granted at time of application are appropriate based on recorded reported earnings in the coverage year. The marketplace reenrolled coverage for all of 11 enrollments in plan year 2015 later based on what it said were new applications in real enrollees had filed, which we had not actually made, the market place terminated coverage for six of the 11 enrollees saying they had not provided necessary documentation, however for five of the six deterrent terminations we installed reinstatement, including increases in subsidies. In closing, our test results highlight the need for cms to have in place effective controls to help reduce the risk for improper payments and fraud. Otherwise there is potential for such risks to be embedded early in a major benefits program. We plan to include recommendations regarding controls and a forthcoming report. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement, i look forward to questions. Chairman it has come to my attention, they had difficulty obtaining 2015 enrollment data data that would allow g ao to conduct a full analysis of what really happened to enrollees of 2014. This would have been helpful to gao in providing things like those were whose of those who were supposed to get dropped among other things, can you provide us with more detail about the difficulties gao had in obtaining the information. I expect them to have the most enrollment most recent enrollment data. I expect that they would work with you to make that happen. Any information you can provide this helpful is helpful. Thank you. I will lay out our experience in obtaining data, in the event getting in the beginning i would establish a context, why we did undercover testing was to flag indicators of potential control weaknesses, and at the same time we had designed our Forensic Audit which would have relied on the enrollee database in order to map out what we were fighting in the controlled environment against the actual enrollees that i believe Ranking Member widen mentioned earlier. That said, we begin began our informal meetings with cms in april of 2014. We requested various information, we had some success. When we focused on the enrollee database we submitted a written letter requesting that database in august of 2014, and then we subsequently engaged an additional discussions with the officials as they expect concerns that what we were asking, what we plan to do with the data as well as how the data would be safeguarded. Upon the suck subsequent discussions through early part of 2015, we submitted another letter to the current acting administrator of april 2015. As of a couple of days ago, we have been in contact with cms who advise we should expect the data sometime next week which is good news. We look forward to obtaining the data and seeing whether it is actually what we asked for, and then conduct additional tests whether the data is useful. I apologize for the long story. Thats fine. I understand the marketplace in both this good faith in not pursuing applicants who did not submit all of the requested documentation to reconcile inconsistencies between information they provided and that available to the marketplace to government sources. Could you describe would be goodfaith exemption is all about, whether it has any basis in the of portal care act or its implement inc. Regulations. The goodfaith provision is basically an interpretation by cms of certain provisions. Any statute itself and incrementing regulations. Essentially under this implementation, cms deemed as long as an applicant submits at least one document to support their application that whatever that would have engaged in a good faith effort. Accordingly remain a participant in the coverage. In terms of whether this has an impact on the controls, it is essentially one of the back into controls, a document verification process depending on your point of view, whether that is adequate if someone is asked for seven documents and they submit one that can create a control gap and raise questions about their eligibility for participation. Thank you. My time is short, i would like you to give me yes or no answers. As of this morning, can you generalize from the 11 fictitious cases what the fraud rate would be for the more than 10 million real americans who actually receive Health Care Coverage under the law, yes or no . Not as of this morning. Senator wyden you said in your testimony that tax returns are i quote here, key elements of back into controls. It is a major check that would shut down fraudsters, as of this morning, did you file tax returns for these individuals yes or no . We did not. Senator wyden as of this morning, have you uncovered any real individuals who fraudulently obtained Health Coverage using gao techniques, yes or no . No. Senator as of this morning, have you provided hhs with fictitious identities so they can address the problems that you say exist, yes or no . We have not. Senator wyden i reviewed this very carefully and given the answers that we have just heard, it is clear to me that the auditors have much more work to do before the committee can try a useful on this matter. On this point with respect to the claims that the agency has not been responsive to the request for enrollment data, i very much respect. 10 million americans identifiable information is already becoming a nightmare for millions of americans. It is my understanding that the agency and the auditors worked out an agreement on how this information could be turned over to gao and protected, i think that is good. It is also my understanding the agency has turned over some 30,000 pages of documents to my colleague, senator portman for his committee. This notion that the government am the agency in particular, cms is spending its day morning noon, night trying to stonewall on releasing this information, i think it is not accurate given the facts cited. Chairman senator, youre next. A lot of us want to asked questions ask questions, i will at a few one of three. I will put the lead in to the record, you presented cms with potential flaws, the flaws as i understand did not get fixed. My question is simple, and your work with cms do you believe cmss attitude is and will people first and worry about eligibility later, if at all . From where we stand currently at the explanation has been that they have to balance the ease of access to coverage with Program Integrity controls based on our undercover work, i would say that there are gaps in these controls that have yet to be addressed. We continue to look at it through our forensic work, as of now i think the balance would favor access over integrity. As we stand today. Thank you mr. Chairman. I think it is important that you were talking about taxpayer dollars here that we make sure they are spent wisely. Marketplaces are required by law to verify application information, yet it appears from your investigation that subsequent interactions with cms that the buck stops with no one especially since the very contractors hired to verify the documents are not required to detect fraud. It begs to question of whether you are currently aware of any effective front or back and and Fraud Detection Program used by the administration . Mr. Bagdoyan should be only give us a good idea of what the controls are. We will take what we have learned from the undercover test and match those of the Forensic Audit, and then apply appropriate criteria as well as a forthcoming gao framework to manage fraud risk, then we will have a very comprehensive view of what the environment is like. But you cannot make the judgment like that. Senator based on our work today, i am not aware of that. Additionally, has the administration provided you with any rationale as why they would enter into contracts that do not require the contractors, they have fraud Detection Capabilities . Senator as well as i can tell, it is to go over contracts, not detect fraud. You said your work is ongoing, but does gao have any recommendations on how to improve the document verification process, to actually sort out fraud as opposed to just accepting documents . Senator we are working on a forthcoming report sometime in the fall where we hope to have some initial recommendations and those recommendations might indeed cover the matter that you mentioned. You do not have any hard facts right now . Senator not right now, but we did speak with officials about things that we encountered. We continue to have those can discussions and await explanations and that required regard. My understanding is several fictitious applications were approved and reapproved without submitting documentation to the work of place, how can this be . How can the marketplace continue dispersing taxpayer dollars without documentation . Senator bagdoyan we were automatically reenrolled without any action on her part for all 11 applicants. We found out six of the applicants had been dropped from coverage because they had not submitted documents. We had to. At one step further we did acting again as typical consumers to restore coverage and we were successful five and six times. I would say these are troubling results. 11 out of 12. I would say, senator for morgan, we need to drill down and get to the bottom. I dont think you can write this kind of report off. You couple that within june, the report revealed the administration could not verify whether 3 billion and subsidies was properly dispersed to Insurance Companies in the first four months of 2014. These are significant failures they need to be addressed, i appreciate hearing here, i hope we can continue this dialogue with you, mr. Going on mr. Bagdoyan. We will return to senator wyden. Senator wyden i want to respond, i am always willing to work with them. I asked him about whether he and proles uncovered any real individuals who fraudulently contained Health Coverage, he said no. During the two previous enrollment periods, the agency turned down coverage because they were not able to verify documentation. I am willing to look at all of the ramifications of these 11 applicants, but lets do it in a bipartisan way. Lets do it when we actually have recommendation, once again he does not have any recommendation. Chairman we are doing it in a bipartisan way, i do not think we can ignore some of the testimony. Clicks thank you thank you. My friend, the Ranking Member talked about how hhs has been responsive, you have indicated they have not been in providing information. Since you mentioned i have 30,000 pages of documents, only 20,000 have information were talking about. I we are asking for right now is a scheduled to submit documents. If we have time i would like to hear your response. With regard to the issue there is clearly a policy problem here, not just the fact that 11 of 12 fictitious people got through and were automatically reupped and when some were kicked out six, five were brought back in after a phone call, when they should not have been. Clearly we have a problem. The statistic example of 12 may not be significant when it comes to policy. Your statement mentions the gao failed an initial identity step and other words, people were fictitious of they cannot get through. But the gao was able to proceed past this step after calling hhs , can you describe what you did to verify the identity for these applications . Senator bagdoyan as mentioned earlier, we were able to obtain by following instructions. We contacted the contractor who did the proofing, they cannot clear it, they instructed us to call the marketplace, which we did, based on the information we obtained coverage. Mr. Portman it was a phone call. His is a policy issue this is a policy issue, this is not just a quirk, this is an hhs policy. Senator bagdoyan we would view that as a indicator of a control cap. Cap. Mr. Portman you can get in just by no proof. In another example, you noted in all 11 cases, they were supposed to submit all of the information for subsidies, in some cases they only submitted a few pages could you describe that rule and why it enables them to see coverage . Senator bagdoyan in terms of a legal basis, we are awaiting a response from cmf, our attorneys have been in touch with theres we are trying to get clarity. Under the goodfaith provision essentially the applicant is compliant with their obligation to submit documents as long as they submit one out of the hell ever many they have been asked to submit. Mr. Portman again, this is not a result of a statistical quirk it is one as planned. I think anyone who cares about the Affordable Care act should be concerned. It allows people to continue receiving subsidies without hhs and making a serious attempt to verify eligibility. These are policy issues being applied today as we talk. Finally, your statement notes of this investigation was given with limited backstopping. Can you describe that . Senator bagdoyan that essentially involves the extent to which we employ investigative techniques. I do not want to become my colleague speak for my colleague, but it was simple using commonly Available Software materials, and other approaches. Mr. Portman so you did not have inside information, you had you came at it as any consumer would. I think these are important aspects to your result report , i think from a legislative perspective it makes it more serious. The amount of confusion causing people who are legitimately trying to get a subsidy is unbelievable. H r block says two thirds of people are having problems getting refunds. This is not just about verification flaws s as you have said, this lack of controls , it is about confusion for consumers. Question quick question, did you attempt to find people . Is it your job to find the fraudulent people . Senator bagdoyan not at this stage. Of the 50,000 people who filed not enough data how many the defined . Senator bagdoyan none at this point. Healthcare. Gov became synonymous with failure. We had a constituent in South Carolina who is trying to figure out how to get his information off of the website that was used erroneously, we could not get a response from cms. Finally we had a committee hearing, we were able to get information and help solve the problem. One of the things that concerns me most about the challenges we face is that we can combine subsidies, including medicaid, we are talking about 1. 7 trillion in subsidies. In the year 2025, we will have about 31 million Americans Still without coverage. Perhaps, after billions and billions of dollars subsidies have been received by people who do not deserve them, it may indicate why we still have 31 Million People without insurance. Outside of your investigation, how easy is it for most consumers to falsify information in order to receive higher subsidies based on your fictitious individuals . Senator bagdoyan as i mentioned earlier, it was relatively straightforward for us. There is a lot of information out there available for people who are committed to performing fraudulent activities. It appears to me to be almost a reverse incentive to release controls, it seems to lead towards higher enrollments. Thoughts . Senator bagdoyan i would take you to my Opening Statement regarding the balance between access and control, it appears a stunner limited results, that the balance is more towards access and control. Our work continues, well have more definitive views on that in the future. If it is tilted towards access and controls, chances are high that someone will be able to get on as you did with 11 fictitious individuals and get coverage, even if they were doing at home on healthcare. Gov. Is there anything that would lead to a different conclusion from your experience . Senator bagdoyan i think the Forensic Audit conducted on the entire population will give us a better picture of what happened whether there were additional flags we need to follow up on. At this point i cannot project. I would appreciate if ill let appreciate a followup. The reality is it happens when you have individuals receiving subsidies that they have not earned, do not have a right to come a when it is 1. 7 trillion over the next eight or nine years, with the results in South Carolina in the past year is between 831 and as high as a 50 increase in premiums. That is astounding. It is ridiculous. It is unaffordable. As the premiums climb, we have also seen the deductibles go up. Your outofpocket are more expensive. The number of facilities hospitals or doctors available to you for that access card continues to dwindle. I am not sure what good access is because you have a card when there is not a provider. Thank you. Senator coates. Senator coates i am not surprised with anything i have heard this morning. I go to the senate floor once a week to identify, not identify but to share with my colleagues proven waste fraud and abuse in a number of ways and agencies. We have a bureaucratic, dysfunctional government that tries to do with real intent tries to do more than it can handle. Thank god for gao and for the nonpartisan work you do to help us point out ways in which we can help a struggling taxpayer not have to pay so much money into washington to function something that does not work. I appreciate you being here and your candidness. How we can take this for anything other than a canary in the mine, saying hey, there is a problem here, lets get after it. What really is discouraging and i need more details, you take these findings to cms and cms gives you a stall. We are waiting for attorneys to respond. Cms should say thank you. You have pointed out weaknesses that we were not aware of. We want to be efficient. We want to implement the president costs Program President s program. They are following that mandate. This will help us because if this becomes public, public will say, one more example of the government bloated bureaucratic, inefficiency ineffectiveness, preventing people who need the insurance from getting the insurance giving insurance to people who do not qualify, it is fraudulent , i hear, well we have to go through all of this process before we implement, they should not have to wait for you for recommendation. You have told them, here is the problem. I would think they would say thank you. We will go after this and fix these things. You have pointed out things come obviously, sure, it is fictitious. If this is not an alarm bell in terms of dysfunction, i do not know what is. Can you describe more your efforts with cms to get them to say, thank you, yes, this helps us we see weaknesses here and we will take steps to go forward , instead of some process that will take you to the legal system and bureaucratic system that will take months, if not years of more, and more waste and fraud continuing. Senator bagdoyan our exchanges with cms have been fruitful at times, we have gotten their attention on some key issues for it issues. Senator coates what about these issues. You said you went to cms and you are awaiting a response. Senator bagdoyan that refers to the goodfaith exemption, we are waiting for their legal analysis. Senator coates we hear this all the time. Senator bagdoyan we are waiting for the verification process. Senator coates did anyone say, thank you for getting this to us. Senator bagdoyan i dont know if they said thank you, but they are aware. Senator coates is what you are presenting worthless . Senator bagdoyan no, they didnt say that. Senator coates thanks to gao and other investigative agencies they have pointed out we have a dysfunctional government, and we are wasting taxpayer dollars faster than we can send them to washington, mr. Chairman, thank you. Chairman senator burr. Senator burr thank you. Let me say thank you. Thank you to you, and all of the folks at gao. According to your testimony, people applying for coverage are required to attest the documents are not false. Cms says contractors are not required to verify documents. The contractors are not equipped to identify fraud. Cms has also stated there is no indication of meaningful levels of fraud. Do you think cms made the statement because no one is monitoring the enrollment process in a meaningful way . Senator bagdoyan i think the statement from cms is based on the fact that the contractor itself has not reported any fraud. As you pointed out, they are not tasked with looking for fraud. Senator you had not been asked to go look, therefore you do not find any. Senator bagdoyan at that stage the stage yes. But it might yield different results. Senator burr who is ultimately in charge of an sharing ensuring enrollment integrity . Who is the one on the hook . Senator bagdoyan as a general proposition, i would say that the tone of the top is important, whether it is the administrator responsible for cms, it is leadership that sets the controls in place, ensures they are working as intended, monitors their effectiveness and then response to any changes in the environment that may necessitate adjustments. Senator burr senator wyden came to an interesting solution conclusion, what you have testified on is not valid because none of the individual enrollees filed an income tax therefore you did not allow the system as designed to catch that they should not be there. Your own testimony says that in correspondence between the applicant and the marketplace on four of the individuals, the marketplaces correspondence to the applicant referred to their about tax returns vowed tax returns. In other words, the marketplace said four of your applicants filed returns and that is what we make the judgment on, when in fact, none of them did. He stated that in your testimony. What is my take away . Not only do we have policy deficiencies, but we certainly have indications of incompetence , or intent to ignore the law. That should be concern of the committee and the American People. I hope the gao will continue with instructions from the chair to look deeply into this. Thank you. Chairman senator casey. Senator casey i want to say first, in my experience as an elected official in pennsylvania , one of the most sickening in parts of that time as a public official significant parts of the time as a public official, i have some sense, even though i was overseeing a group of auditors, i have some sense of the difficulty of your work, and a good sense of the reaction you get when your work is completed. I respect and appreciate what you do. I want to asking question to make sure the record is clear and then i will get into specific health care issues. I want to make sure this is right, based upon your testimony, is it possible to make generalizations about the full population of applicants in the market place . Senator bagdoyan no it isnt, that was not the intent. Senator senator casey those of us who voted for the Affordable Care act we know that there are issues to correct. A number of us have voted already for improvements to the law. What is indisputable, in addition to it not being perfect , is there has been a substantial benefit conferred on a lot of americans that would not have it otherwise. Im not saying it for your benefit, just for the record. 16. 4 Million People gained Health Insurance coverage in the time since 2010. In pennsylvania, over 400,000 selected plans or were automatically reenrolled through the marketplace. About 81 of pennsylvanians who selected Health Insurance plans were determined eligible for financial assistance. A lot of examples of individuals two individuals from southeastern pennsylvania are selfemployed, have two sons in college, she is worried about Health Coverage because she has breast cancer. They were spending over 10,000 a year on Health Insurance. Thanks to their aca plans, they are now spending 3000 per year. The savings helps them on college costs. I wanted to asked ask, do you think there are additional checks that can be imposed upon the system . Checks that could help identify fraud which the gao did not test . Senator bagdoyan sure. That would be a major part of our focus for the ongoing work. As i mentioned, earlier in response to another senators question, we will be applying to the current process, we obtained information from our undercover forensic work, that will inform and go in tandem, and once we apply the criteria, that will be able to identify how to best on best respond. I cannot say one way or the other. Senator casey i know it is difficult, when you have a mandate, but also limited resources, you cannot audit or review every transaction, every part of the system. You do have to make a determination based upon risk. Which is higher. Senator bagdoyan prioritize where you attack first. Senator casey i want to asked to what extent you believe the irs has a capacity to identify fraudulent socalled a ptc claims. Senator bagdoyan i do not. That is not part of our scope. I believe there are other Mission Teams within gao that are taking a look at that. I do not know the specific aspects. Senator casey we are grateful for your work, it is difficult but it is essential. We want to make sure we get this right overtime. One of the ways to inform how we do our work in terms of legislative change or corrections is to have information from gao and other sources. Chairman senator wyman. Senator wyman is it correct that cms asked for these 11 specific cases, in gao did not give them to the agency . Senator bagdoyan that is correct. Senator wyman whiten certainly you cannot fix something you do not know. Senator burrs question, you could have an answer if you are able to get information about basic dishes cases fictitious cases. To maybe message here, and chairman hatch knows i am interested in working with him on a bipartisan level i think without these recommendations which we have been told they are not ready to go, it is premature , at some point i believe gao, i work with them often i believe it will give us recommendations. I hope that people following this will recognize, as of this morning, General Accounting Office not covering any instances of real people committing fraud is part of the inquiry. Chairman it is true that your job is to look for fraud. Your job is to look for misconceptions. Your job is to look for things that are wrong or out of wack. That is what you are doing right . Senator bagdoyan that is correct. Chairman you have done it honestly. You are disturbed by the fact that these discrepancies exist right . Senator bagdoyan we do have concerns about the flags we have detected in terms of a controlled environment. Chairman you are expressing concerns today. I have concerns as well. A lot on our side do not believe that obamacare will ever work. That it will continue to take a step hill with more and more costs, expenses, and fraud. This is not the only instance of fraud, is it . Senator bagdoyan i cannot comment on that. If i may try to explain our decision. Chairman i do not want people just schlepping this off like it is not important. It is important. Tell us why. Senator bagdoyan it is important in terms of getting responses we need as our work is ongoing. I would respectively asked that ask that i explain why. It is fully consistent with gao policy protocols and practice that we do not die voltage divulge any information regarding our investigative techniques to any entity so that we protect those for future use. That is our perspective. Chairman why is that . Why cant you divulge . Senator bagdoyan we have sources that need to stay confidential. They are in general use by gao and certain circumstances revealing those would basically give up the ghost. Chairman my understanding through my service in the senate, the gao does a good job of trying to get to the bottom of problems in our society. I think you are a good illustration of that effort. This does not mean you will seize trying to find fraud and mismanagement in the future, does it . Senator bagdoyan this work is ongoing. Chairman we will probably have you back again so we can figure out what our job is. We cannot just dismiss these types of things. We have to do something about them and hopefully we can do that with your help. We will the house will be in order. This is 20 minutes. Donent consent to speak out of order for the purpose of inquiring of the majority leader the schedule for the week to come and thereafter. The speaker pro tempore without objection. Mr. Hoyer i now yield to my friend. Mr. Mccarthy i thank the gentleman for yielding and i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. Mr. Speaker, on monday, no votes are expected in the house. On tuesday the house will meet at noon for morning hour and 2 00 p. M. For legislative business. Votes will be postponed until 6 30. On wednesday and thursday the house will meet at 10 00 a. M. For morning hour and noon for legislative business. On friday the house will meet at 9 00 a. M. For legislative business, last votes of the week are expected to no expected no later than 3 00 p. M. Mr. Speaker, the house will consider a number of suspensions next week, a complete list of which will be announced by close of business tomorrow. In addition the house will consider h. R. 1734, the improving coal combustion residual regulation act, sponsored by representative david mckinley. This bill is essential to protect and create jobs. If we do not act, the e. P. A. Will replace the existing successful statebased Regulatory Program with harmful new regulations that will cost hundreds of thousands of jobs and result in billions of dollars in burdensome costs for job creators. The house will also consider h. R. 1599, the safe and accurate Food Labeling act sponsored by representative mike pompeo. This bipartisan bill will ensure Uniformed National labeling of foods from genetically engineered plants, by addressing the patchwork of conflicting labeling laws, we will fix the growing problem of inconsistent and confusing information for consumers. Finally, the house is expected to consider the conference report for the fiscal year 2016 National Defense authorization act, and i thank the gentleman and yield back. Mr. Hoyer i thank the gentleman for his information with respect to the legislation for next week. As the gentleman knows we have now passed six appropriation bills. Last week consider of the interior bill was postponed. It the gentleman and mr. Rogers have both made representations that they hope to do all 12 appropriation bills. Can the gentleman tell me whether or not you did not announce any appropriation bills on the schedule for next week, can the gentleman tell me whether or not he expects to bring additional appropriation bills to the floor prior to the august break . I yield to my friend. Mr. Mccarthy i thank the gentleman for yielding. Yes, it is our intention to get back to the appropriations process as soon as possible. As the gentleman does know there are some very serious and sensitive issues involved. We are in the midst of a constructive and bipartisan conversation on how we can resolve these issues. Ill be sure to keep the members updated as the appropriation bills are scheduled for continued consideration. I yield back. Mr. Hoyer i thank the gentleman for his comment. Particularly in terms of the willingness to work in a bipartisan fashion. As the gentleman as majority leader knows, there is on his side of the aisle and on our side of the aisle a great concern that the pre02 allocations to the Appropriations Committee are insufficient to meet their responsibilities. Mr. Rogers, as you know, chairman of the Appropriations Committee, member of your side of the aisle, from kentucky, has characterized the sequestration numbers as unrealistic and illadvised. The senate has not passed any appropriation bills, as the gentleman knows. It is my hope and i would like to ask the majority leader whether he contemplates any bipartisan discussions with reference to how we might come to an agreement so that appropriation bills could, in fact, be enacted, sent to the president , and signed by the president. The president , as you know, sent down a budget which was paid for but which had defense numbers at the numbers that your side of the aisle used by utilizing overseas Contingency Operation funds to bridge the gap between the sequester number and the president s number. My question to you is that is there any contemplation either before we break or shortly after we come back, because october 1 will be on us very very quickly, to have bipartisan discussions Ala Ryan Murray to get to a number we can agree on and pass appropriation bills and have conversations and send them to the president and be signed hopefully before october 1, but if not before october 1, certainly before december 18. I yield to my friend. Mr. Mccarthy i thank the gentleman for yielding and his continuing question throughout the months on this. It is still our intention on this side of the aisle to get our business done, uphold the current law which is in place. I know you and i have had many debates back and forth we know the sequestration started in the white house and we continue to play by what the law states today and move our bills in a bipartisan manner with a very open process on the floor where any member can bring an amendment up and well continue to use that process as we move forward. I yield back. Mr. Hoyer i thank the gentleman. The majority leader, mr. Speaker regularly brings up that sequester started in the white house. He knows i very severely disagree with that. And he voted for a cut, cap, and balance act which had in its in that bill, which no democrat i think, voted for it sequester. And it was passed five days before our republican friends, mr. Speaker alleged that mr. Lieu segged suggested that to mr. Reed as a suggested that to mr. Reid as a way we could get by the houses refuse you will refusal up to that point in time extended which meant we couldnt pay our bills. I dont think thats very useful in discussing how we get by this loggerhead that we have met on the appropriations process. I served on the Appropriations Committee for 23 years. Before i became a leader. We did pass bills. Not always on time, but we had an ability, republicans and democrats working on the Appropriations Committee, working in the congress, to get our bills done. Mr. Speaker i dont know whether you recall i presume you will recall, that when we got to a similar impasse mr. Ryan the then chairman of the Budget Committee, miss murray then chairwoman of the Budget Committee in the senate, got together and came up with a some figures that we could agree on in a bipartisan basis. Until that time, we had the same kind of scenario that we are now confronted with. Mr. Speaker it is my view that unless we have such a meeting of the minds we are going to put this country in another crisis of our own making. We democrats are prepared to enter into some sort of an agreement consistent with hal rogers believes we can get to a realistic and advised compromise not this unrealistic and illadvised, mr. Rogers words, republican chairman of the Appropriations Committee, not mine and if we dont do so, when we get to september 30 or we get to december 18 lets not wring our hands and say how did this happen . Well know exactly how it happened. It will have happened because we refused to sit down as the majority leader said a few minutes ago in a bipartisan way to do the peoples business in a responsible collegial way which we can get to an agreement so the bills can be passed. I would hope and i think this argument about whos responsible for sequestration clearly we have a different point of view. A bill that passed before the suggestion was made by jack lew so we could get by the impasse and america has to pay its bills is not very useful. Mr. Leader, let me go to another subject. You moved on two occasions to refer to the House Administration Committee Legislation which related to the use of the confederate battle flag. That both of those issues are now pending in the House Administration committee. One has been there for some three weeks now. Can the gentleman tell me whether there is any suggested action by the committee whether there had been any hearings scheduled, and whether or not we may see that legislation brought to the floor at any time in the foreseeable future . I yield to my friend. Mr. Mccarthy i thank the gentleman for yielding. Just to clarify before i answer your other questions. I am concerned about what the rest of the summer looks like. A lot of my concern stems from what i hear on the other side of the aisle, especially in the senate side. As the gentleman knows for his years of working for more than two decades on appropriations, the appropriation process we have today is the most open this house has ever seen. Never in the history while you were in the Appropriation Committee was it as open in the process that any member from any side of the aisle could just offer an amendment. Not even prewritten not even a closed amendment. But your comments about sequester, what aim im really concerned about is the comments of senator schumer, senator reid he was going to have the summer of the shut down, the destruction, he was going to shut everything down, im concerned on some of your comments that leading in that direction i dont want to go there. I want to finish our work as we have been doing here. And history cant rewrite it. Bob woodward respected journalist as we all know from his days back to watergate today his price of politics, he wrote of the time and history. Sequester was not debated here on this floor created on this floor. Not even on the senate as well. You can read it in his book. It was created in the white house of this administration. It is the law of the land. We will uphold the law of the land and do our work based upon those numbers. Now, the question you had before me was dealing with what we referred to, House Administration. I have met with the chair and i have met with members on your side of the aisle. We have nothing scheduled for next week, but we are currently working towards solving this, to me a very serious and sensitive issue and i look forward to getting it done and working with you to make it happen. Mr. Hoyer i appreciate the fact that we might be bringing something to the floor that we can express the opinion of this house. As the house and senate in South Carolina expressed its opinion, it surely is appropriate for this house of representatives representing the values of our country, sworn to uphold our constitution, that stands for equality of all that we can express ourselves and take appropriate action. I appreciate the gentlemans view. I have Great Respect for mr. Woodward. Mr. Woodward shortly after that book came out i called him he came into my office, we had a discussion about that representation. I will tell the gentleman that i believe mr. Woodward was incorrect. He did not have information i gave him. I dont mean that he necessarily says hes incorrect, but there is no doubt when you want to talk about history, you passed a bill five days before the suggestion was made by jack lew, which presumably coming out of the white house, to mr. Reid, the majority leader, five days before that, you passed on this floor a bill which was called cut cap and balance which had sequester as your fallback policy. So youre right, you cant change history. That is history. The gentleman, i said that a number of times, the gentleman has not corrected me. I presume therefore he believes that im accurate in that representation of th