Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

Other biographical sketches, and that the Historical Context is not lost on us. Is a system of this amendment has not been advertised. Ive not had a piece about how to direct my energy. For those who have not had a chance yet, the Southern Cross what was defined as the Southern Confederate flag as known as the army of virginia, the current flag that is flying right now, im asking that it he raised be raised at signup and lowered at sundown on state holiday that memorializes the confederate soldier. In its observation, we have confederate Soldiers Memorial day. It is intrinsic in the definition, confederate memorial day. The tradition of more realization as memorialization that i in many others wish to observe is of longstanding, 148 years. Sometimes with great hardship. The first soldiers that were buried in that million back buried in magnolia the banks of the cooper or by force denied flowers. Those that gathered to memorialize were denied even the ability to display a confederate button on their uniform. For those of you that have frequented magnolia cemetery, it is a beautiful and pastoral setting at this one with live oaks and centipede. At that time, there were no markers, no grand memorials. There was bare dirt. The attendees were gone gaunt. They were orphans and widows. We are only talking a few generations removed from us in the past. Does it not strike you, those of you that our fathers and grandfathers grandmothers, that it sounds strange to our ears when our children or grandchildren speak of the vietnam war era, anything subsequent to that area to that area as if it were ancient history . Our confederate forbearers were more closely related to their colonial patriot forbearers than we are to our confederate forbearers by at least a generation or two. It was more poignant for them. Think about how the reference for the Founding Fathers might have been demonstrated mid19th century relative to how we observe the colonial patriots today. I didnt inquire of how carolina day was observed on june 28. I feel certain it was not it was observed in memorial fashion for the nine slaying slain. Nonetheless, 220 something years past we still have an historical observance of the defense of sullivans fort by kernel mode tree. It is not emotional. But it is celebratory. Truly, to observe confederate memorial day, or a confederate soldier to me may be emotional more than anyone else here experiences. But we are so far removed generationally that the experience truly now is it probably should transcend emotion. We should be able to observe their actions, their deeds. As the senator from lancaster has so often reminded the, we should be able to do it without revisionism. He and i remind each other about how we suffer revisionist history, and i gently try to remind him of the fact that im fond of remit of revisiting history, not revising it. So i have enjoyed the life of an historian, of the genealogist. Certainly not professional. But more than hobby. I have been asked, senator, do you like to play soldier and go to reenactments . I dont have a uniform, but i dont begrudge those that do to keep history fresh for us. Because there is coming a day when we are for generations removed from the people. More generations removed from the people. It comes down to the deeds, the words. An original historical account is very important to me in this study and in this contemplation. When i tell you of a young 21yearold soldier, who came down from the foot along those mountains on april 14, 1861 on a sunday morning, the senator from oconee, as he assembled for worship with his best girl, as he recounted in his memoirs there at choke a church cha uga church, he was already a militiaman. That carla came after the Morning Service to assemble that call that came after the Morning Service to resemble todays later at the courthouse for hearth and home was eagerly and obediently obeyed. Catch the train, the blue ridge train from pendleton down to belton. Two days in belton waiting for other companies to come in from pickens and greenville, two days later, the camaraderie of soldiers. 800 of this unit at the battle of first manassas, joined by 400 of louisiana tigers. The first 1200 to see the advance over bull run. The very troops that gave Stonewall Jackson his moniker. Called for furlough there in 1861, reorganized in 1862. As a company of my coaching can, palmetto sharpshooters micah jenkins, palmetto sharpshooters. Thoughts of war became more ominous. But with the campaign war israel at this point. The battle of 7 the war is real at this point. The battle of seven pints in july. William Davis Jackson William Davis dixon was one of 12 from the palmetto sharpshooters, what was known as the crack regiment in Robert E Lees now famous army of northern virginia. He had just taken the command a few days prior. A good and open field, as William Bayless describes it, and reluctant to give up the colors because of the portentous that they all knew the portent they all knew was a waiting them. In the lead, oneshot staggered , holding the colors aloft. Second shot, to the ground. Staggering again to his feet. Third round. On the ground. Pass the colors. Near mortally wounded. Six months in recovery. Returned to his comrades, return to his arms, finished out the war. He was at appomattox in person, not on paper. The 400 mile trudge back home. One of his Commanding Officers as he lay dying there at seven pints let me back up to 1862. He had noted William Bayless dixon for his man your, his manhood, his honor, his integrity. For everything he is bothered as a 19th century carolinian, as an american. He penned a letter to his sister and he asked William Bayless dixon, captain harris the captain said to the private please see this returns to my little sister there in pendleton with all of her possessions with all of my possessions. He came on that furlough, as i said in 1862, and he made that visit. He made that acquaintance. And after the war, he married that girl. Because in that letter from captain harris to young ms. Harris was, this war will be cruel and awful. There will be much flour of youth lost in the struggle. Flower of youth lost in the struggle. The bearer of my commands i the bear of my letter i commend to you. I trust that you will be wanted in marriage. He was commending a stranger to his history. William bayless dixon and ms. Handy harris saw there many children and their many children and grandchildren. And the only common denominator that i can judge them by is that they love god more than themselves. On both lines always back into the colonial 18thcentury, mid1700s. Both elders both families were populated by elders and ministers right through to the 20 three. The 21st century. I have known them and i observe. I have no their love for fellow man, regardless of race or religion or creed. I have known their love for fellow man regardless of race or religion or creed. I also know that as their direct descendent they are my greatgreatgrandparents, i come nowhere close to living up to their standards in service for fellow man or to their god. In his late years William B Dixon was recounting gods goodness. And in his final memoir he was relating that mr. Steele reed of walhalla was still in possession of the regimental colors, which have subsequently come into the possession of the state of South Carolina. And on a rotational basis have been displayed at the confederate relic room. My granddaddy migrate granddaddy to generations removed gripped those my great granddaddy two generations removed gripped those colors. He gripped hearth and home. He maintained a homestead with his family. He sustained himself by gods favor. Let me just say that i know that i speak for many of you here that can relate such story. I know i cannot speak for many of you here to look through a totally different prism. I hope that i have had listening ears. I surely have tried. Im going to ask for a vote. Ive told my republican colleagues that i have a full heart. And it some point before this day is concluded i do want to address not only who they were with a few other biographical sketches, but in my estimation what they were attempting, the very essence of the cloth, the when and where that i believe we need to go forward as a people. And i think i have interwoven the why, even with the presentation of this amendment. I know there have been discussions of other flags. I will catch you in just a second, senator. I have war abhor the misappropriation of my great great granddaddys flag. Sometimes the charges the charge is levels, why, but you have done more. Well, i have done a lot, and it brings me to this point to where i have to ask us to do something corporately. When it is suggested to us by our leaders that it is more appropriate for us to do things in private rather than publicly, i wince. Because i will confess that i or my constituents, are not necessarily capable or able always to revere something publicly excuse me, privately, as opposed to corporately or publicly. Let me further explain. I dont like to see the Southern Cross, the cross of saint andrew , whether rectangular in naval jack form, or whether it be the envy soldiers flag anv soldiers flag, i dont like to see it as a bandanna. I have been on a world rural stretch of South Carolina in the last 72 hours where i saw it as a garment on a mannequin as a scarecrow in the garden. And i couldnt help but think that is a level of misappropriation, maybe not done import spirit, but certainly done in bad form, and in no way helps me honor that revered cloth of my greatgreatgrandfather. I know the debate between centennial observance and civil rights resist has been thoroughly discussed. Resistance has been thoroughly discussed. Misappropriation can take place by every generation. But what has brought us here the misappropriation of the darkest forces known to man i cannot put at the feet of my greatgreatgrandfather. Unless someone jump up and say that he was the confederate soldier of the Confederate States of america, and therefore he shoulders a portion of that responsibility, i wont argue that with you at this point. Except to say, secession, an independent country an ageold debate and argument from the colonial time through nullification, through secession, so multifaceted. We heil phds pile pacs upon phds upon College Professors about this era of American History and there is still no agreement. So multifaceted it may have been. In 2000, this discussion was brought to the confederate Soldiers Memorial. It was removed from atop the dome where we had this multifaceted discussion. The discussion of the soldier is single, defense of hearth and home. William bayless dixon, he defended his immediate family. Others defended extended family. Some just defended property. And yes, some defended their slave property. If that is as far as this debate goes, to the tune of 20 three grace, 21st century grace, we will get to the point where there is no discussion, no reverence, no observation of the high and noble lineage that a lot of us have enjoyed and been the beneficiary of. Going back to dr. Girardeau, he built the Largest Church in the state of South Carolina. When he was called in from colton county in the 1850s, the anson Street Mission had 36 members. Dr. Smite at second pres was looking for someone who would have the respect of free men and slave. At the commencement of the war there were 600 communicants in the church that had been relocated further down calhoun or boundary street. 1500 in sunny School Sunday school. At the time of reconstruction, his parishioners, which were about 25 white, 75 black, he interviewed it he attributed the maintenance of his church and with it at his church was not destroyed or pillaged ormerod it or desecrated or my rotte marauded or desecrated, he interviewed that to his congregation. I know we have seen this demonstrated on the streets of charleston, in our hearts. And again, i confess to you i know we look at it through different lenses, but im asking if you can acquaint it he equated to what we do in trying to observe the 6000 plus casualties of our mideast conflicts, it grieves me to see the body that count body bag count of what has transpired in iraq and afghanistan. I know we come at different angles as to what is the best for our country. But one thing we do regardless of our political position on American Intervention overseas to a man and woman we stand and we recognize the valor, the spirit that has been demonstrated in the last decade by our sons and daughters. It is our sons and daughters and their sons and daughters that i speak for. You might say again, back to the point of public versus private memorialization, i say sometimes private memorialization loses the impact of our corporate experience. I say it is subject to interpretation, misuse, and misappropriation. I say public or corporate honor speaks of a unified message. In my feeble way, ive been trying to bring us to a poignant, close examination of the confederate soldier. And i havent dwelt on the warts. As i said earlier i believe i was there and guilty and stood there in the garden with adam. My theology teaches me i was there. So in speaking for my greatgreatgrandfather and the multiplied hundreds of thousands that i could have been speaking for, and i was and am, but speaking to my children and grandchildren i feel the same compelling drive that i read of Martin Luther five centuries ago. In a great time of social and religious turmoil and controversy he was heavily induced in the arts of persuasion, they were mightily brought to bear in his life. For him to turn his hand at the time in his ministry from his message. And his response was before the gathered world, i cannot go against my conscience, for it is neither right nor safe. Mr. President , im sure there are others that would like to address my amendment. I appreciate the time and attention. Chair the senator yields for question. I know how you feel about memorial day. I think i first met you at a Memorial Service of 20 years ago. It not only relocate the battle flag to the dwelling room, but also flagpole and the fence. Am i correct . My amendment would leave a bear poll bare pole 364 days a year. In early may, sunrise to sunset, it may encompass 12 hours. The current flag, the flying that flies there today. Im asking to fly for 12 hours on confederate memorial day in may. Chair the senator from greenville, for what purpose do you rise question mark rise . That these remarks be recorded. Chair so ordered. Was all do respect, i moved to table the amendment. Rollcall is requested. The clerk will please ring the bell. And call the roll. Clerk open bracket clerk [clerk calls role] roll] [rollcall vote to table the amendment] chair mr. Davis votes no. Have all the senators voted . All senators voted . The poll is closed. The clerk will please tabulate. By vote of 2217, the amendment is tabled. The amendment on the desk, the clerk will pretty will please read. Oh, sorry, the senator from greenville is recognized for introduction. Mr. Allen. Senator allen thank you. Im joined by senator jackson. Members of the senate, it is my pleasure today, yesterday senator orangeburg and i were in church. We learned as kids about do justly, love mercy, and while calmly walk humbly. That is what god requires of us. Senator answer senator anderson sort of curious to school sort of carried us to school on that. But im joined today by what could be some of greenvilles finest native sons. And we are joined in the senate today by the one who when we were little, boys, and they would collect nobody call us nobody, they would teach us to stand up and say that i am somebody. When we wanted to know if we could run for president of these United States there would be somebody who ran for president ended it by setting an example for us. When we wanted a trailblazer type of roadmap he was somebody that laid the foundation to tell us that when the doors of opportunity were open, to keep your back straight and go through the doors. It is my pleasure to have with us today what i call the mr. Down with dope, up with hope, the country preacher, the one that when Martin Luther king was saying, i have a dream he penned the term i am somebody. The one that taught us that greater is he that is in us than the one that is in the world. The one that was saying that just because you live in the ghetto doesnt mean you have to have the ghetto in you. Our native son great south caroline i am south carolinians, reverend Jesse Jackson would be welcome to the senate. [applause] chair welcome you to the senate. Welcome back. Senator thank you, mr. President. I want to say briefly that reverend jackson is a great friend and father. He was responsible for me as a student at Benedict College becoming the Student Government president. He came to Benedict College and he said to my dad and others that this young man ought to be more involved, and because of him i got more involved in and one of the highlights of my life was in 1984. I went to San Francisco when he was a candidate for president of the United States. I, too, want to welcome one of my family fee family heroes and personal heroes. Dr. Reverend jackson, thank you. Chair thank you. Senator clarence. Senator while we are introducing friends, i looked up in the balcony and saw two friends that this is probably their first time here since i was here. I want to introduce mr. Calvin bates and will leonard to the South Carolina present South Carolina senate. Please welcome then today. [applause] senator also seated in the balcony, mr. Nelson rivers. When i started some 27, 28 years ago in politics, nelson was the man who would carry a lot around. Chair what purpose do you rise . Senator how many amendments on the desk . Chair one at this time. Senator lexington. Senator we have former senator mckinley washington. Please stand up. You talk about an outstanding member of the senate and my right hand man when i was chairman of the education committee. He carried more waddy for education legislation more water for education legislation that anybody. Welcome back and lets give him a round of applause. [applause] chair we stand at ease for a moment. Chair the senate will please come to order. The clerk will post the next amendment. Come to order, please. Clerk amendment number three by senator bright. It amends the bill inserting section 110 subsection a of the code, amended to read only three flags fly atop the dome of the state. Chair explain the amendment. Senator sometimes we sponsor amendments we are not fond of just to get a vote on exactly where people stand and where they are. I am not [gavel] i am not supportive of burning down the confederate battle flag, so dont misconstrue the reason for this amendment. But there has been so much made of that flag all ive heard from folks who wanted down is that weve got to get rid of that flag. So this is not an amendment im happy with my but i want to give an opportunity to vote on it. This is the book of the dead. This is a list of confederate soldiers that fought for your state. Everyone of them listed in this book, over 20,000 names many of whom youre related to, both black and white. I also want to bring to your attention that we have a statue of Abraham Lincoln in washington. My pastor who i love cannot go through july 4 without mentioning Abraham Lincoln. Abraham lincoln in his own words spoke that blacks should be not allowed to vote, to serve on juries. As a matter of fact, many northerners who did not want slavery brought into the new state, its because they didnt want lacks brought into blacks brought into the new states. This nation is the greatest nation in the history of the world. We have brought up the standard of living for the entire world. A declaration of independence was written that would eventually not allow slavery but we have to remember that slavery was under the american flag. We cannot condemn the south without condemning the nation. Lincoln was not about ending slavery. He was about ending slavery when in 1863 he was losing. He wanted to win a political argument. This nation is intertwined in slavery. It is intertwined in sin, but it has been blessed by god in spite of it. A number of people in this world that have been saved through grace in christ is a result of the blessing on this land that has been the greatest in history. That is a commonality we can share. But you read what these men said , i mean, by the by todays standards they were white supremacy. And they were. They believed in the supremacy of the white race. Do you know why . They did not have the examples we have today. Im not a great bigger. Let me tell you, the reverend Jesse Jackson is a great a great im not a great speaker. Let me tell you, the reverend Jesse Jackson is a great speaker. I thought he was looking at me when he said you are somebody. I member that. I was in high school. Clarence thomas to me is the greatest judge of our time. There are black people that have been extremely successful. It is skin pigmentation, people. It is the color of our skin that is the difference. We all bleed. We all love. These men love, but they were fighting for their state. They were fighting against an oppressive federal government. That oppresses us today. And ive got a feeling that some of you are not fans of Clarence Thomas from what ive heard. But what ive got to say is that our what our founders intended was controlled by the states. We get emails all the time. This issue, let me tell you something. I thought people cared about raising taxes. Ive never gotten so many emails in all my life. Ive gotten emails from people calling me a hater and it is the most hate filled email of my life, talking about me being hateful. Im not for love hate. I believe in what these men fought for, the rights of states. I believe it is so true today. I have read the articles of secession. Ive also read the core lynn amendment. The corn amendment basically was an amendment that was passed by the senate and house, and supported by lincoln, that was going to give slavery to the states if they would reenter the union. It was not about slavery for those four years. It was about the union. They wanted to save the union. I wish we didnt have that war. I believe slavery would have been outlawed. True christians, sin is a burden on your heart. Treating a human being as cattle is evil and it is wrong. But it is still going on in africa. Isis is right now the focus of the media, the National Media. Im not upset with local media, because this is South Carolina and is a big debate. At the National Media is obsessed with this. People are getting their hands chopped off in amphitheaters right now in the middle east. Their hands chopped off. Where is the outrage . And let me tell you, we are next if they have their way. Your head is next on the block. But what happens at walmart, we cant have a Confederate Flag but we will bake the isis cake for you. Weve got problems. I was on the way down to georgia. And of course, these fm stations dont go a long way. But i was listening to a preacher and he was preaching the sermon that something is wrong. Ive never heard this pastor before. I actually served with him in the senate, but i had never heard him give a sermon. It was so good, that i look i stopped at a rest area because i was losing the signal. But there is something wrong in our culture, and it is sin. And really been that can help us is god. And we pray and we pray together and his grace has been shown in charleston. We pray for god to help us, but we ignore his commandments. Let me tell you, these abortion clinics, where are they put . They are put in mostly black communities. Think about the disproportionate amount. You can shake your head, but look at the numbers. There is a disproportionate amount of blacks that are killed by abortion. It is disproportionate and it is wrong. Can we ask for god to help us . We can get the numbers and we dont know that the numbers are accurate, because obviously we have an audit that says they are not doing their job. We passed laws. But there is a choice on enforcement. We ask god, and yet we have this genocide. We ask god to help us, but we allow a Supreme Court to tell us that it is ok for two men to commit unnatural acts. And not only is it ok, which i really dont care what two men do when they are alone. It is their business. I dont come to the state of South Carolina and demand a marriage license. And next it is putting people out of business. And it goes to the church losing it exemption. Where does this all go back to . It goes back to the federal overreach. They dont want the flag of because it is a racial issue. They see it as what the klan did. I was raised in the south and ive never met a klansman. My understanding is they are going to come here to protest but they are coming from north carolina. If you want any credibility at all and that is why you dont see the flag, the worst thing you can be called in South Carolina if you have any moral compass is a racist. If somebody calls you a racist you are dead and done. There is a difference between being born with a different pigmentation versus choosing a lifestyle that god says is wrong will stop is wrong. And by the way, we all sin. I am a wretch. That song applies to me. I am a wretch and a sinner. Im saved by grace, but you wont see me ask for special recognition for this the sins that i did. God is not going to heal this racism and heal this evil until we all submit to him. And corporately as a nation we are not submitting. And moving this flag from outfront is not going to do anything to change this nation. All we are going to do is disrespect these 20,000 men black and white, that fought to defend your state. Ive got a wikipedia because you know, people seem to listen to the wikipedia articles. One of the largest slave owners in the south was black. There were black slave owners. Who sold the people into bondage . It is still going on in africa. Sin is wrong. Sin is evil. But for people to have a guilt feeling i can promise you this, if i was alive at that time, they would probably be after me. Because i would want people to be free. And if i believed that was what these people fought for, people that didnt even own slaves i mean, 97 of them. If that is what they thought and i4, i would be with you climbing up to take that flag down. That they fought and died for, i would be with you climbing up to do that flag down. But that is not what they fought for. They fought for their homes. Chair senator from florence. Senator a question. Im reluctant to break in on you. Im reading your amendment and im truly it is saying the only flag that should be flown above the dome or in the chambers should be the lets see, the United States flag, the South Carolina state flag, and it goes on further to say the First National flag of Confederate States of america, commonly known as the stars and bars, etc. The set fly all day every year . Senator yes, this will be similar to the flag we have out there now. Senator so we are allowing the state flag on the chambers. Senator that is right. We just had the amendment drafted, so if you see technical errors, tell us. But the intent is to replace the confederate battle flag. Senator your intended to take down the existing flag and replace it with this one. Senator right which i said before im not a fan of, but i want to see where the body is. I will say it again because it has been proven so many times. I believe it is a stylistic purge of our cultural identity. There is a move now in memphis to move Nathan Bedford forrests body. That is going on as we speak. I dont believe it is just this. I dont see how we can lincoln how you can have George Washington out there he was a slave owner. Jefferson. I mean, our entire history. The senator from charleston spoke about his father. I believe his father encompasses america. I really do. I mean, he wasnt perfect, but the good he did for the people of South Carolina was incredible. Another senator was telling me about a current u. S. Senator that got a letter and asked him to help with a constituent issue. And the reply was, this is not a federal issue. Contact your state senator. And he said, Strom Thurmond would have never up done that. Would never have done that. Instead of calling 911, people would call Strom Thurmonds house if someone was breaking into their house. I mean, that was a great man. Anytime the federal Government Forces people to do things anytime your outside with the constitution allows that is debatable. 50 years ago, could senator molloy or myself have the relationship we have today . No. Have we come a long way . Absolutely. Is taking down the flag going to make people stop hating . That is insane. Is taking the general lee off the Television Going to get rid of hate . The man who died on the cross he died on the cross for our souls and showed us peace and love and that is as close as we are going to get hate in this getting rid of hate in this world. I dont think getting that of the general lee, getting that of the battle flag, getting rid of the flags at nascar, one of them are presented as, representative rutherford is talking about what the Confederate Flag made him feel. Senator i was outside when you started your presentation. The flag that you are talking about is the First National flag that was the National Flag from 186163. Senator yes. It is the First National flag of the confederacy. Senator called the stars and bars. And you are advocating replacing the battle flag. Senator it is not what i want. I would like to have the battle flag remain. But as ive heard in the media and ive heard in emails, that flag is what it is all about. Senator that is the flag in 2000 that we advocated we put out at the time because it was also used as the flatter the battle flag between the states. Are you aware of that . Senator i am aware and i know folks are upset about that. General lee gave his sort of. His but his sword up. But that lunatic that was waving a flag, since it is supposedly about that flag budweiser is safe and golds gym is safe. I dont know what goes through a mans mind that can pray for an hour and then kill i cannot comprehend what his thought process was. I think it was just evil incarnate. What happening colorado, there wasnt a Confederate Flag. What happened in new jersey wasnt a Confederate Flag. This is the first time im aware of a Confederate Flag being the culprit. There was a move that moment that morning where people were talking heard them talk about gun control. We got a lot of gun control in chicago. We got a lot of gun violence in chicago. I do not think that is the answer. I think the answer is what the people of charleston did when they came together and prayed. We have to be honest with ourselves. We ask god to bless us. Who do we ask him to bless . We ask him to bless this nation and turn our back on him. We see where israel went into bondage. I am sure we will talk more about this. Senator from charleston, for what purpose do you rise . Is the senator would yield, i moved to table at this time. A sufficient number have doubts have asked for a wilco vote. A rollcall vote. The clerk will please ring the bell. Ring the bell and call the roll. Clerk [roll call vote] have all the senators voted . Have all these senators voted . Then the poll is closed. The clerk will please tabulate. A vote of 346, the amendment is tabled. There are no further amendments. The senator from richland. To be heard on the bill. Mr. Lourie. Senator lourie i will be very quick because i know that we are anxious to get to a vote. I believe this will be one of the most historical and memorable boats of our careers. We know what we need to do and i believe from the bottom of my heart we will act in a way that makes the people of our country and our state very proud. First of all, i, too, want to offer my thoughts, prayers, and condolences to the families of the nine people whose lives were taken in a way that makes it very hard for us to even understand and discuss. The families who have shown us and taught us what true grace is really all about. Nine innocent people, including our dear friend Clementa Pinckney, who were in a house of worship. What holier, safer, better place to be than to be in a house of worship . I want to thank the people from around the state and around the country. The president , the Vice President their wives, members of congress. It made my heart feel very good that sitting behind me at the funeral two weeks ago were 50 to 60 members of congress from all states, from both parties, and i think it speaks to the magnitude and shock we have dealt with the tragedy in charleston and what we have brought here today. We have lived through firsthand an incredible period of love, comfort, and change that only god himself could create, and it is that change that we are here to vote on today. The world changed on wednesday night, june 17. The world changed. Not only for the victims and the families and for all of us who knew and loved the victims, but the entire world took notice of what happened here in South Carolina. We all have somewhere between slightly different and very different perspectives on the Confederate Flag. This fact is undeniable. The alleged killer of the charleston nine used that flag as a symbol of hatred and racism and bigotry. He was not the first. He will not be the last. I am very respectful to those who would argue that this flag is part of our States History, and that, too, is undeniable. But it is also a flag that brings back horrible memories of slavery and again is now used frequently as a symbol of hatred and bigotry and racism. And for that reason it is my position, as it was in 2000, when i was in the house, that that flag should not be flown on the grounds of the peoples house, the statehouse. I want to thank you for your consideration and for your time today. I want to thank the senator from kershaw, senator shaheen for leading the matter a year ago in bringing this to fruition. I would like to thank my friend senator patterson who let this fight in the 1980s and whose voice echoes through both chambers of the legislature on this important issue. And finally, i want to thank governor nikki haley. Governor, you and i have disagreed probably more than we have agreed, but i for one of been very moved and hold you in great respect, not only the way you have showed compassion for the victims, but for your leadership on this issue. Friends, we have a chance to write history today. Let today be the beginning of a story about a new South Carolina, a story that starts after a very bitter and somewhat toxic legislative session, a story about how this General Assembly came together in the wake of unspeakable horrors to work to unite the people of South Carolina. A story of how we removed the simple that helped heal, that helped heal a nation and a state in their mourning. Let today be the day that this story is written. Thank you. Mr. Peeler. As he is coming forward as he is coming forward, i would like to ask unanimous objection that the senator from richmond without objection, so ordered. Mr. Peeler. Senator peeler it has been suggested that the flag be removed from the statehouse grounds and placed in a museum to give it proper honor. Members of the senate, the greatest museum in the state of South Carolina is right here. The statehouse capitol complex is the greatest museum in the entire state. This is a museum. We are standing on historys acreage. The very walls of this building show the results of shermans canonnon. This is a museum. This is why i am standing here to tell you i will not vote for senator kershaws bill. To remove the statehouse the flag from the statehouse grounds in thing it would change history would be like moving a tattoo from the corpse of a loved one and thinking that would change the loved ones obituary. That wont change history. Moving the flag will not change history. I hope this debate will shift some of the thinking, but we wont change history by removing the flag. Youve heard the debate all day long. Members of the senate, my ancestors owned no slaves. They barely owned the shirts on their back. But they fought. John rufus peeler fought, my great great grandfather. Members of the senate, do what you think you feel we must for the healing of the state. Do what you think we must do but you will not accomplish it with an affirmative vote by me. Least we forget our ancestors. I thank you. Thank you. The senator from richmond, proceed. Mr. Courson. Senator courso courson in my senate office, i have a monument to general robert e lee, and i think he is one of the greatest americans who ever lived, one of the few pupils who ever did this in the history of the institution, and he took command of the federal forces in the knights face, he took command of the virginia forces and the rest is history. What he did after the war he was born in 1807, virginia. Died in virginia in 1870. The way he did it, the way he surrendered, the way the surrender was accepted, when he surrendered a permanent 1865 in virginia, 1865, i think the way he conducted himself led to this country coming together as one nation. I enjoy [indiscernible] i went by the Quebec Assembly 10, 15 years ago now. They have all of these huge french imperial flag flying in quebec. It is a frenchbased party. They have not forgotten the fact that they became part of british canada. They said, you all talk about secession . As a, nobody is talking about secession. They had just had a referendum ankle back, and they came within one percentage point of seceding from canada. They wanted to form a french independent country and they were part of the continuous of this and they were puzzled. They were puzzled. If you all want to discuss anything about the civil war i said, yeah, occasionally we get in a flag a fight over the flag. I am sitting in with all of these french imperial flags. And they are giving me a look and they are saying, you are not talking about secession . I said not at all. I think those of us who have the honor to serve in the armed forces of the United States have tremendous respect for the military service. The greatest thing that ever happened to me outside of my family was serving in the United States marine corps. [indiscernible] he said, they identified eight people in the United States, who served in the United States senate or the state legislators or marines, and if they could use those to promote the marine corps, they would ever krugman in i agreed to that and that is one reason i have that flag and im very proud of that. Military history is a part of my life. I have been to military museums in ottawa, canada, australia, france, london, the united kingdom. In 1987 they also went to normandy which was a very emotional experience. The president came out. And he hugged Strom Thurmond and they thanked the senator from florida. It was very, very emotional. 10,000 crosses and stars of david at normandy. Its a very emotional thing to witness. My point being, i have been to battlefields throughout the world. And war between the states, i have been to sites from vermont to new mexico and every place in between. My wifes family fought for South Carolina and north carolina. There is a bible chock full of her ancestors. It was the government of the state they were fighting for. That flag to me is a military flag, always has been, always will be. I have never perceived it as a racial symbol. I regret, will deeply deeply regret that rightwing extremist groups have hijacked that flag and turned it into a political symbol for hate and it really bugs me this is occurring because that flag to me is not that. People look at it in different lights. I want to read, if i may, before i sit down, general order number nine. This is from april 9 april 11, 1865 2 days after lee surrendered. It goes, after four years of service thank you. The senator from charleston. As he comes forward chef by ems by unanimous consent, to have those remarks rented in the journal. Without objection. Thank you mr. President. Mr. President , you refer to me as the senator from charleston and i want to say to this chamber and any who are watching that i have never been more proud to be referred to as the senator from charleston then i have since this great tragedy occurred. I believe charleston and our state has demonstrated to a watching world how to respond to a tragedy, and unspeakable tragedy like occurred at mother emanuel church, and to our friend and colleague clem pinckney. Our community and our state have responded in that way, frankly, because i believe we followed the lead of that congregation. And of the Family Members of the victims of that shooting. They set the tone for the response, that the world really is amazed at. And their response and you also look at the walter scott family, and you look at their responses well. Their response as well. Its utterly amazing. It is inspiring. I can tell you, it has inspired me. I wrote an oped about this issue and why we should remove the flag from the statehouse grounds, and basically when i began writing that oped, i did not know if that was a position i was going to hold, but i wanted to present the best argument in light of what the responses been from the but thems and the family the victims and the family and the congregation in charleston and just sit back and say if i could live with it. I will tell you, i probably broke down crying four times. At the tragedy yes, but also at the incredible response and the manifestation of sincere christian forgiveness and charity that those who have been left here on this earth to deal with the tragedy have demonstrated. And as the senator from charleston where this occurred, as a fellow believer, i was utterly in awe of the faith of these people. And i tell you, i regret that clam is not here that clem is not here, and that i did not express gratitude to him while he was still on this earth because the reaction that those members of that church had is a reflection of him. It is a reflection of him as their pastor, as their shepherd. It is a reflection of him, his heart, his intellect, his theological insight, his Pastoral Care and leadership. What they did is a reflection of them. I regret, i regret i do not have an opportunity to thank him for that. Its really one of the most amazing reactions i have ever experienced in my lifetime, and last week, i quoted from a speech one of my favorite christian philosophers, theologians former atheists by the way. I want the world to know that cs lewis was an atheist. He wrote a book called the pilgrims regress, a pun on pilgrims progress. The problem is john bunyan does not have a blog. We do not read them anymore. The world would be a better place if they did. Ds lewis said that he was kicking and scratching into the cs lewis said he was brought kicking and scratching into the kingdom of god, a brilliant mind that argued against his existence, but he was pulled kicking and scratching into the kingdom. And the quote that i used that touched me, that i think is relevant, i will say it again cs lewis said, to be a christian means to forgive the inexcusable because god has forgiven the inexcusable in you. To be a christian means to forgive the inexcusable because god has forgiven the excusable in you. And the world looks at what happened in this state and in charleston and there is no human explanation for it. The only possible explanation that makes any sense at all was captured in that quote from cs lewis. Clem himself the members of his congregation, the Family Members of the victim hymns, they understood because of his teaching and his shepherding and his theological acumen, they understood god has forgiven them much and they are capable of forgiveness. When i sat down to write my op ed to help me discern what position i was going to take on this, as i reflected upon the charity and the grace, the forgiveness, the peacemaking they sat, they stood against outside agitators that would come in and try to create violent reaction to this. They expressed charity to the murderer of their Family Member during a bond meeting. Amazing people. Utterly amazing. As a member of the senate, i could not let that go without a response. If they can be peace makers and those dire circumstances, the circumstances of the worst possible circumstances that any human being can encounter, if they can be peace makers in the midst of that, i determined i can be a peacemaker when it comes to a flag flying on the statehouse grounds. And i decided that even though i do not concede most of the probably all but certainly most of the arguments, most of the aspersions cast against that flag i do not accept them, but i do it knowledge this. The at times, as the senator from richland indicated, it has been expert in it by those who would seek to politically define us and those who would seek to physically harm us. At times, it has been expropriated. That is an illegitimate use of the flag, but because of that illegitimate use, there are some in our state, are citizens of South Carolina who are disconcerted by it, in fact even find it offensive. I do not find it offensive. But i know that some do. There are many who cast disp ersions at it that are not valid, but i know that they are sincerely held by those people. In the name of peace and unity and last week i quoted romans i will quoted again in that spirit as paul encouraged us to do, and being inspired by the fruit of clems ministry that we are seeing at work and play out on the world stage, as a witness to the veracity of their faith im willing to accommodate and acknowledge that it is disconcerting, offensive to some citizens, and therefore, i am willing to relocate it to pursue peace, like paul encourages us to do. I think that is an appropriate thing for us to do. This is about South Carolina. This is not about outsiders, who would come in and seek political advantage or Racial Division and try to foster even violence from this. My focus is what should we as south carolinians do, people in our own communities our fellow brothers in christ, who have left a great legacy. I wish i had known how great that legacy was when he was here for me to thank him for it. You want to know the mark of a man . You look at the legacy he leaves behind, that he left behind. I hate that it took a tragedy like this for me to really fully understand that, but i do fully understand it, and it is utterly amazing. It is one of the greatest testimonies to the Christian Faith i have experienced in my life. I love theology. I love reading cs lewis. I love theology as much as i love reading the Founding Fathers. You might be shocked at that. But i do. I have never seen such deep theology implanted in peoples lives and manifesting itself before a watching world in such a powerful way and that commands a response from us in this is the least i can do. This is the least that i think the state should do. This is not about me. Its about the people i represent. Sunday after the murders, sunday night, my sister and my wife went on the bridge to peace event sunday night on the bridge. Three and a half mile long bridge, at least 15,000 showed up on the bridge, Holding Hands crossing the entire span of the bridge the towers reach 1600 feet into the sky, and i will never forget my sister, she was on the top of the bridge, and a man who she did not know, i do not know, he just spontaneously, as everyone was Holding Hands screened at the top of his lungs, raising his hands toward heaven, spontaneously said, this is how we write it in charleston. You see, charleston could have been another ferguson. It could have been a baltimore. Do you know why it wasnt . The christian people who had a deeply held commitment to their faith, who acted consistent with that faith. That is why. If it wasnt for the example they set right off the bat, if they had a chance to address their loved ones murderer if they had not set that pays at that moment in time, who knows what could have happened. I cannot let that go without an appropriate response. They have inspired me. And i also want to say this. I think it is very important that we that we relish this moment that we do not a rubbed into additional debate about other matters. You wrapped into additional debate about other matters. You mentioned the president of the college of charleston senator mcconnell who came out with a very eloquent use in support and he is a big Southern Heritage guy, as we all know and we all know he is very gracious. Not a racist bone or sell in his body. All of you who served with him know that. But he did Say Something in that piece that i think is important to contemplate. And that is, i think it is important that we not in the future engage in campaigns to eradicate monuments and other things around this state because you know like mcconnell said, there is no end to that. There are thousands upon thousands of battles that could be fought. The monument at white point gardens, the confederate Soldiers Monument itself. It is important for us, all of us to acknowledge that this symbol has been expropriated the battle flag, it has been expropriated illegitimately, and this is a response to that expropriation and in light of the inspiring behavior of clems congregation and the victims but i pray that we dont in the future default into the type of monument by monument, symbol by symbol battle that senator mcconnell encouraged us to avoid, because there would be no into that and i think that would be very divisive. We have a rich history and South Carolina. Not just a rich civil war victory. We have the first victory of naval forces, the battle of Sullivans Islands. We had the palmetto logs on our flag. Six days before the signing of the declaration of independence. William thompsons sharpshooters from Calhoun County defending the north end of Sullivans Island against over 2000 british marines, the first decisive victory in the revolution, really before the revolutionary war. We have a rich history. It is important for us to commemorate and memorialize that history, not to try to sanitize it, not to try to make it something its not, but to try to interpret it, remember it, memorialize it, and i would encourage us to fall paul follow pauls exhortation pursue peace and mutual love building. I would encourage us in the future as we would next session, with the potential of waging against other flags another monuments and other symbols, that we reflect back to pauls exultation at that point, too. Lets let South Carolinas history be South Carolinas history. Lets let the memorials in the monuments we have erected and adopted, embraced to interpret it and understand it remain. Sometimes an understanding even some of the most egregious acts that is where you get the most insight in where you have been why you are where you are right now and where you should head in the future. That is the reality. I would implore us to pass this bill today in the pursuit of peace and mutual love building and in the future pursue that same piece and not engage in the battles we see raging over the country right now. Thank you. Thank you. The senator from greenville. Ask unanimous consent that the senator from remarks be printed in the journal. Yes, sir. The senator from beaufort . Senator from beaufort is recognized. Mr. Davis. Senator davis thank you, mr. President. I have an obligation today to listen and to learn. Like most of you in this chamber, i was not born or raised in South Carolina. I came to this beautiful state in 1978 and since that time it has been my home. It is not where i was born and raised. I have no obligation to listen and learn because unlike many in this chamber, none of my ancestors fought in the american civil war. My ancestors came to the northeastern part of the United States in the late 1800s, a couple decades after the civil war ended. So i have listened intently, trying to understand the views of those who, quite frankly have more of a flesh and blood stake in our States History than i do. Up until a little while ago i was not going to take this well and share my thoughts on the confederate battle flag. But this is not about me. It is about speaking for the 100,000 people i have the privilege to represent, so here are my brief thoughts on their behalf. Like you, i spent the last couple of weeks answering phone calls and emails from constituents, listening to those who see the flag as a symbol of South Carolinas heritage and to those also who see the flag as a symbol of hatred and resistance to the exemption extension of civil rights. I have listen carefully to the historical arguments made today in this well. Some have explained why so many south carolinians are aggrieved by the confederate battle flag. At my colleague explained how the flag was raised in the 1960s, at least in part, is as a statement of defiance of civil rights judicial decisions. Others say that it is a symbol of a proud heritage. My friend, the senator from lawrence, who sees it as a symbol of there is no one who speaks more from the heart and senator verdin. But it is not about deciding whos take on the confederate battle flag is right and wrong. It is not our duty to enforce some past compromise however honorable it may or may not be. I think our task is much greater and more significant. It is no exaggeration to say the nation has now, and the world is now and has been watching South Carolina and taking our measure, forming opinions about our state and our constituents that will last for generations to come. We now have the opportunity, we now have the obligation to put in at nation point on a narrative of good and evil, love and mercy, which will take its place in the history books next to other great in transcendent moments in our nations history. We have a opportunity, we have the obligation to provide an exclamation point to what the people of South Carolina have already shown. We are awed by the forgiveness shown by the families of the victims. We heard what nadine said to the man who murdered her mother. I forgive you. You took something very precious away from me. You hurt me. But if god forgives you, i forgive you. We heard what ms. Middletonbrown said at that hearing. She said, we have no room for hating, so we have to forgive. What we, along with the watching nation witnessed were fewer expressions of mercy and love and forgiveness and as my friend just noted they showed us what cs lewis called the essence of being a christian. To forgive the inexcusable because god has forgiven the inexcusable in you. The cynical National Media, doubtless expecting riots, were stunned. In the days immediately following we saw something equally astonishing. In hindsight, perhaps it should not have been. The grace shown by the families of the victims to that killer at the bail hearing. I believe as a result of that incredible grace and spirit of forgiveness, that in the hearts of thousands south carolinians a moral imperative to reciprocate in kind, to somehow respond to grace freely given with grace freely given in return and i believe seemingly of its own accord in a statewide groundswell of love and goodwill, the idea of removing the confederate battle flag from our statehouse grounds somehow became widely seen as a fitting way to give grace freely in return, to match grace with grace even with South Carolina hand to devoutly revere the flag joining in the call for its removal, not because they have for sake and it or concede a historical argument about its to, but they understand how hurt and humiliated it has made others who call South Carolina home and they felt the obligation to reciprocate grace. So, i am embarrassed to say i never fully realized just how offensive the confederate battle flag was to you and other African Americans in our state until a few weeks ago youd took to the you took to the well and talked about how you felt in 1994 when your first elected to the senate and you walked into this chamber and you saw that flag. Until this very moment when i heard you take this well and share those words, i dont think i fully appreciated just how that flag made so many south carolinians feel. Again, i think the nation, the National Media, they fully expected South Carolina to match hate for eight. Hate for hate. They expected what we saw in ferguson. They expected what we saw in baltimore. The very last thing they expected to see were amazing acts of reciprocal grace. What a wonderful way for the people of the United States of america to see South Carolina. It is our job to put a legal sanction to what those fellow citizens have so beautifully shown to a watching world, that south carolinians are a deeply religious people who come back evil with good and counter violence with grace and the senator from kershaw, senator shaheen said this morning, we are a people who respect our states past, but we live in the present and look to the future. Let us now with this bill, not be grudging or conditional in reciprocating grace that the families showed to their families killer. Lets do it because it is the right thing to do. Thank you. Thank you. The sinister from charleston. For what purpose do you rise . I would like to be heard. The senator from charleston. Senator from charleston mr. Kimpson. Senator kimpson ladies and gentlemen, there is a poem by langston hughes. I learned it when i was a student at morehouse got. I will not read all of it to you because i understand the gravity of this moment in the fact that we need to bring this to a vote. The words are, i would rather see a sermon than to hear one any day. I would rather one to walk with me and show me the way. The i is a better pupil and more willing than the here. Advice may be misleading, but examples are always clear. And the best, the very best teachers are the ones who live their creed. Ladies and gentlemen, we have an opportunity today to live our creed. There is been a lot of talk about the soldiers. Soldiers of the confederacy. I just want to take us to the words of the soldiers. There was an agreement that was entered into indeed general wade hampton spoke at the gathering of the confederate legion here in columbia, 1875 in a tribute, a tribute to the flag of his legion. And he gave a speech entitled the duty of the present. These are his words. Though it will never again braved the battle and the breeze, yet as long as one shred of the battle scorn folds clings to the other, it will tell you and language more eloquent than words of the imperishable renown you one for it and yourselves. It will speak constantly to your hearts of our dead comrades, and it will serve you to remind you always that when you furled it forever, when you furled it forever, you alleged your soldierly honor to observe the terms on which you surrendered. General wade hampton. General robert e. Lee stated this when he urged after the civil war that all should unite in an honest effort to obliterate the effects of war and restore the blessings of peace. Lees orders and the terms of surrender were to furled the flag forever. He urged his fellow southerners in 1969 not to keep the sores of war, but to follow the example of those nations that endeavor to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feeling it endangered. So, my colleagues, i asked for that as we discuss the remarks of the people who actually fought. That you and we honor their words. Furled the flag. That does not mean you do not have a ceremony and ritual and i am not appear to lecture. But those are not the words of the people on the battlefield. I was born and raised in columbia. That i have the privilege of representing Senate District 42. And i would like to thank my colleagues in the charleston delegation senator kimpson senator thururmond speaking on these issues before it became popular to do so. In closing, i want to take you to and i want you to understand about what my colleague calls this frost and strong charleston strong united movement. A charleston Strong Movement that grew by the thousands senator bennett, who assembled on that bridge in unity, all rallying for the state to come together. Pictures were flashed across the screens all across america, and from charleston strong, we have grown to South Carolina strong and we have grown to the United States of america strong. This is our moment. The gravity of the nation and the world are watching us. This is our moment to live our creed. Mother emanuel is our sanctuary. It is a sanctuary for the devout who threw fire, vandalism, earthquake, hurricane, and depression and war sacrificed to erect and maintain a beautiful tabernacle for the glory of god and a sanctuary where the pulpit called for justice and humanity for all. Not exclusive. For all. And some might ask the question so, when evil walks inside this sanctuary, this place of peace and refuge, takes a seat and listens to the word of god and then proceeds to violate that refuge, one might ask the question, where is god . Well, mother emanuel is the answer to that question, for the word emanuel is hebrew for god is with us. So where is god . God is emanuel, and god is with the senate today as we prepare to vote on this very important piece of legislation. God was with those who were killed, holding their hands and whispering into their years at their last transition from gods earthly sanctuary to the great sanctuary above and god will be with us and god will be with reverend senator Clementa Pinckney, cynthia hurd, sure Rhonda Coleman singleton, ethel lance, susie jackson, rev. Daniel simmons and myra thompson. God is with them, and they are watching us and encouraging us to live our creed. Thank you, mr. President. Thank you. Senator scott. Mr. Jackson. Senator jackson thank you. Unanimous consent, the senator from charlestons remarks the recorded without objection. Actually, what i need to do is do something i forgot to do earlier, and that is we commended and recognize the senators who have come back, senator washington, my friend senator patterson and i want to recognize my colleague who is not here, senator robert ford. The first bill he ever introduced was a bill to remove the Confederate Flag, and i intended to do it earlier, but i just thought it would be robbery if this day concluded without a saying something about the former senator from charleston, senator robert ford, who quite honestly was perhaps one of the first of us on this side of the aisle to reach out on this side of the aisle and form and lasting bond and a friendship. I wanted to do that before the day was over. Thank you. Unanimous consent, it is ordered. The senator from darlington. Mr. Lloyd mr. Lourie. Senator lourie thank you. I want to thank all of the members of the Senate Senator malloy thank you. I want to thank all of the members of the senate for trying to come together for good. I would have to single out a lot of them, i would say senator thurmond, senator verdin. We have all had discussions. I know this is a difficult time because i know what is in your heart. I, too am and very much still mourning. This is a time we had this body come together my name is malloy. There are several confederate soldiers with the last name malloy, and they are buried their side by side. They were privates and corporals. I do not know the history. I do know they were there is a lot of rich history in the confederacy, but we do not know the history. I would make the argument it touches every one of us. I want to say to the senator from richland, senator jackson i had a conversation with senator ford last night. I sent letters out to senator patterson to honor his past work senator charles and jesper and others and we spoke to others. Senator ford reminded me of senate bill 1266, that the flag was removed from the chambers and in the hallways. He goes on to say, what are we doing, why are we here . The senator from charleston, senator kimpson i very much appreciated your marks. I, like you, served in the chamber for a while before i got to know clem. As you know, i was his lawyer and i represent his wife and his family and i felt it was fitting to come up because of the comments that have been made, she has asked me to speak on behalf of of their family and she has been engaged in this discussion. We have a lot of work to do. So, with a heavy heart, we know what has happened. I learned to Clementa Pinckney was not in the Senate Chamber but in our suites where we lived together and where anything i would want done with the secretary took priority to what he wanted done because that was the kind of guy he was. I did not know his history and that his pastor ship, until i became his lawyer and was able to take depositions and be able to handle the cases and to let him tell the story with his own lips from the time that he became a preacher at age 13 and when he first started preaching when he was 11. Everything you have said about him is true, true as to who you was. And i tell you, god knew what he was doing when he reached down and got the best of us as a relates to the christian experience. It is hard to gauge, but i would tell you that you have his creed. As the family looks on, i would end up saying to us, look, the debate has been difficult and tough. And there are some questions that will still come about, but i will end up saving as i said in my earlier remarks to my lets resolve to remember