Transcripts For CNN Fareed Zakaria GPS 20240930

Pete muntean at reagan israel airport. This is cnn gps, the global public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and Around The World. Im Fareed Zakaria coming to you live from new York Today on the program, i bring you interviews with irans new president , Masoud Pezeshkian, and with the former british Prime Minister Tony Blair well skip the take this week. Theres simply too much breaking news. Well get straight to it. The crisis in the middle east, it is in uncharted territory. On Friday Israel killed a long hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah in a massive strike in the southern suburbs of beirut the attack is part of a recent major escalation israeli airstrikes against the iranian Proxy Group in lebanon. More than 1,000 people have been killed since the uptick last week and hundreds of thousands of lebanese have been displaced the attack on nasrallah was a triumph for israeli intelligence but it also raises many questions. Joining me now from Tel Aviv as ronen bergman, Staff Writer for the New York times magazine ronen, welcome you are fantastic at reporting on these kinds of issues how did Israels Intelligence figure out where nasrallah was explained this operation because it seems like theyve been trying to do this for years how did them succeed were deterred from doing that . Because they were very much afraid of an allout war with hezbollah in where frayed of the gloomiest consequences as the war between the idf and his brother becky, 2006, but they were preparing for that moment. And this is a 50 years long operations to be deeply penetrating the Inner Circle of secrets, of hezbollah and just to give an example, on october 10, the idf brought a plan to kill nasrallah in a bunker in beiruts this was this was not executed because of american pressure and for Minister Netanyahu didnt want that but astronomer has been moved to a much secure bunker later that year and the israelis knew that he is there. That the whole ballroom was moved to that place. And knew when hes going to come when hes going to chair this meeting of the jihad council. Not just he was killed but many of his lieutenants and iranian generals were were killed as well. The israelis dropped 83 bonds some of them bunker busters in order to verify that everybody does feel to me like, you youre right that theyve had the capacity and capability. This is the Word Theyve been planning as opposed to the Gaza One that took them by surprise. And what the hezbollah seems to have miscalculated on. And i want to hear your thoughts on this is that israel was frustrated by this idea of having this low Grade War in the north, where it, where its people 60,000 israelis displaced, they couldnt get back they already have a low Grade War in gaza where they can you know, finding themselves mired. And so here what, what israel decided was, were going to do something very aggressive to break this dynamic and take advantage of all this intelligence we have does that is that a fundamental shift . Gifting is really thinking that they are willing now to take risks. They were knocked you still sometimes in history, things just happening by coincidence in that case the operation of Selling Hezbollah 45,000 Booby Trapped Pagers whos just about to be discovered exposed. Mic is better. Someone got suspicious and the chief of mossad came to prime Minister Netanyahu and said, if we do not pull the trigger and few days, this will be revealed. And probably because this is exposed they will look at anything they bought from our foreign companies, any communication, and they will expose the other operation the proceeded that one of the walkietalkie, and one thing led to another, but its also a Deep Miscalculation by secretary the late secretary general, Hassan Nasrallah, an amazingly, its the same miscalculation. He didnt 2006 in 2006 he continuously tried to kidnap israeli soldier. Soldiers to exchange them for hezbollah prisoners in israeli prisons and he didnt listen to any kind of warning that there will be Critical Mass after which israel will go to an allout war. This time for a year he launched an unprovoked war against israel on low intensity. He believed, and the radius believed that israel will be very hesitant and will never go to All Out War because the israelis are afraid of the toll. This will take or israeli cities and critical infrastructure. He was right for a year but at The End, he got it totally wrong. There was that Critical Mass after which israel just went into the offense and as you said for it the war that israel has been planning for 18 years, thats the word they wanted to find no hostages around and they were ready and the consequences that they were much more ready than hezbollah its fascinating what you say round about, about the happenstance of it because it does seem like the trigger was the fact that these these pages and Cell Phones were going to be discovered and then they decide whether were going to use these. It seems that they said we might as well go through with the plan we had, which was the, you know, because this was stage one and it kills all communications it allows for phase two, which is destroy the Weapons Caches and the minor commanders and then they went for phase three. But what is the next phase in your view . So israel has achieved this extraordinary success really decimated hezbollah now, what do they do to keep it decimate . You know, in other words, this has always been part of what deterred them. They dont want to go back into Southern Lebanon and occupied which they did for years and years and left after deep frustration. What is the thinking about what israels next step is . There is a debate one commander, the chief commander of the Northern Front of his lieutenants in favor of going only with ground maneuver, other officers are saying, look, we have been failing in doing that for twice in the past in at two and then in 2006, we should not go into this deathtrap we, israel they say, is able to take down his butler on its these just using Air Power and Special Operations the. Question, is, by the way, and i presented that question to many of the decision decisionmakers. Season make it. Leaders of the military, the intelligence, the political level the israel has promised just two weeks ago, just before all of this new wave of attacks, the changing of the focus to the Northern Front leaving behind the southern front. This, this ongoing gloomy, destructive war and the hostages that prime Minister Netanyahu has put on a very low priority, preferring the integrity of his, of his coalition now israel has put a very clear target on a new target on the goals of the war, which is to bring back the 100,000 refugees that left their homes in the villages and the cities and the kibbutzes in the north let them go back live there and live there safely and quietly for many, many years and im not sure that there is a clear line connecting these very successful Military Raids and sophisticated Special Operations. And the James Bond Fauda tehran Style Booby trapped pages, operation with how exactly israel is going to make sure that those 100,000, that suffered unbelievable misery during the last year will be able to continue the lives across the along the border between Israel And Lebanon and im not sure that israel has a strategy, has an exit strategy, how to translate those significant successes. As you said, theyve decimated hezbollah continue to do that in the next day, i assess an i think people all the time and they are trying to take down as much of the reserves of his boss started this war with 150,000 rockets and missiles. But between this and a political solution. There is still a very long road and israeli official saying, we need a mature, grownup basically, we need the u. S. Government, but the u. S. Government administration is now dealing mainly, they believe with the elections and so not necessarily an honest broker that would be investing all of its time and resources is to be found at least for now and very quickly. And finally, ronen, what, what is this mean for the next steps for Bibi Netanyahu . The feeling was that he was under pressure, he was under see, she had to try and there was concerns about him being held accountable for october 7, he has it his trials going on. Has hes as he once again found another life because his Approval Ratings are up. People support this mission, has bhbh out whether all his opponents, One More Time assessing the future but this week has been im sure that netanyahu concludes the last 11 days of attacking the north is good for his political career and its see any seems to be very much concerned with that future with this career, with the integrity of his coalition and im sure that the next polls of the israeli public will show a, an increase in the support of netanyahu and Likud Party that hes that hes leading, but at The End of the day there are serious challenges to israel to the israeli economy, to the israeli military that were not solved when they exploded those pages. There are 100 plus got to let you go youre on i got to let you go. We are going to come back to you for sure. In the coming weeks to help us understand all this. Thank you. Thank you. For what will iran do next . I asked the president of iran, coming up cnn special event, the Place President ial debate tuesday at nine more than theyre ingredients recipes written by hand be analyzed and restored using the power of Del Ai. Reserving memories and help me to write new thinking about her honeymoon about africa so far hot air balloon rise, when with elephants 24 to safari, great question, like everything takes a little planning for what the mind towards a Down Payment on a ranch in montana with horses. Lets take a look at those scenarios jpmorgan Wealth Management has advisors and chase branches and tools like Wealth Plan to help keep you on track when youre planning for at all, the answer is jpmorgan Wealth Management. Whether you moon moving across town or across the country . You can count on pods to deliver when we say we will, which is why we were voted Americas Number one container moving company. Book your Move Today at pods. 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Therell be gone in a Flash Designer sales at up to 70 or so of gilt. Com Today Iran do . Because iran is, of course the main backer of hezbollah in the wake of nasrallahs death, iran Supreme Leader warned israel that crushing blows would be coming it runs newly elected president Masoud Pezeshkian said that the militant had achieved his longstanding dream of martin pezeshkian, often regarded as a moderate save some of his harshest words for the u. S. Saying the order for this Terrorist Attack was issued from New York. And the e themselves of complicity with designers. Well, i sat down with him in New York this week before the killing of nasrallah. It was his first interview with western media. I want to show you the interview because it really offers important insights into the mind of the man who is a top irans government. I wanted to hear what he told me about hezbollahs military capabilities heres what lacava tonight, an amateur his bola alone Cannot Stand against the country that is armed to the teeth with all the capacities. It has at its disposal. Know i atana, you wish to kish now if there is a need islamic countries must convene a meeting in order to formulate a reaction to what is occurring in the dust has what lies, but what can hezbollah do alone . You know, why he islamic and regional countries must first sit together. Thats fabulous at the Faa Vb of the Bandeau Vote and Gnabry Yardage and we must not allow israel to create another gaza in lebanon this will not come from hezbollahs hands alone hezbollah Cannot Stand alone against a country that is being backed by the United States and the europeans the government of israel would of course say that the reason they are retaliating against hezbollah as hezbollah has been raining rockets in northern israel has driven 16, 70,000 people out of their homes. These are men, women, and children. These are civilians and that is rarely response is a response to that. Those Hezbollah Rocket attacks show how Beauvoir Mcconney do you believe that as hominins in gaza, this same israel. How many people have they murdered . Theyve killed more than 41,000 people. What have they done to the israelis for them to deserve, to have their hospitals, their schools, men, women, children, old and young, bombarded. You know, how many israelis have even died that they are massacring this many people there my yard, im cautiously did the children killed people . Did the women murder people was already telling Terrorists Emojis of the greatest existing terrorist in the world is the country of israel is on you look at the figures on how many People Israel is terrorizing every day with missiles, drones and there are people in tell me how they are whether youd on it in iran itself. When i was being inaugurated as President Jadi on Leave Chavez from mud, they came in, struck Ismail Haniyeh that night that were couldnt gone on a Ban On What International Law justifies this. But donie other in the world is seeing this in regretfully defending them. Have all the powers are defending them, all the powers that speak of human rights shadow mobara, it is shameful. You have said that iran reserves the right to respond and the time, manner, and place of its choosing to the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh are you saying that you will for sure respondents some way to that assassination are your thoughts on hybrid. And international organizations cannot make israel sit down with you, Jessica M cannot allow someone who has the means and power how hard about do whatever they want whenever they want. And No One stops them. The natural we will give the appropriate response mr. President, do you say that you wish to restart the nuclear talks with the United States in order to return, i presume to some version of the nuclear deal the United States has said that they do not see that as likely to happen soon strategy . If the, if The Americans are not willing . Hamas, omri, america since the beginning, tore up this a court. We wish to communicate to the world that we are not seeking nuclear weapons, whether even caught him on erica is lying that we are doing such a Thing America is pumping out incorrect information about us to the world. We accept the Jcpoa And Word hearing to it. If we were seeking the nuclear bombs that they tell the world we seek, we would not have accepted the jcpoa. I got him caught that if the United States of america is seeking peace in the region we seek peace because we have no eyes on any other Peoples Territory you ron, He Ran has never invaded any other country give me a solid with a look at the past two centuries in history. But the mullins simply because very humble cornea, we are not seeking to invade any other country. As he told if we produce weapons, if we produce missiles, but it is to defend ourselves when will wake up at all, when iraqs Saddam Hussein attacked us . Shahed was raining down missiles one Wish And Chemical bombs on our cities. How many call will The Americans in the European Countries were all defending them while we default, would we were defenseless, but we reached the conclusion that we must be able to defend ourselves that inquiry. Now, i understand that on this Planet Earth that in Cauchy Shot in this fast galaxy in which we exist, we are meaningless. Really is not worth it for humans in this very brief journey to tear each other apart. And some baller, man is above this, you got if we understood this, we wouldnt be tearing each other apart. That would help one another. So we can enjoy this brief time that God And Existence have permitted us to be on this Planet Earth coming up next on gps two years after the mass protests that was sparked by the death of the 22yearold Mahsa amini at the hands . Tens of the Countrys Morality Police. Ill ask iranian president pezeshkian about the state of womens rights in iran biggest companies deliver is exceptional customer experience. 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Com whether youre moving across town or across the country you can count on pods to deliver when we say we will which is why we were voted Americas Number one thats what we usually did for me you saturday at nine on cnn its been more than two years now since the death of Mahsa Amini in iran, i mean, he was a 22yearold woman who died after the Countrys Morality Police arrested her allegedly for not wearing her hijab correctly deaths sparked months of protests, which the government responded to with violence killing more than 500 people when my guests, Masoud Pezeshkian ran for president this year. And one of his Campaign Platforms was a pledge to stop the harassment of women by the Morality Police that put him at odds with the supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali khamenei well holds ultimate power in iran, who has said that removing the Head Covering is forbidden. More now, with president pezeshkian Want Iran to behave in a way that respects all the rights and behaves in a way that becomes a role model. Youve also said that youd want the, what we call the Morality Police to stop bothering people so i wonder, understand because a lot of what they would bother people about in iran is they would bother women who were not wearing a complete Avail Or Charter are you saying that women in iran are are permitted now to not cover their head completely occur without respecting are disrespecting this job. You do know that any change takes time but the lyric can you measure that in the same way, change would take a certain amount of time elsewhere Behavior Modification from both the side of the government or the ones operating outside of their norms. All of this naturally takes time malware raw here, very Him Kane the amount we must allow them the time to behave properly. Ive thought in an acceptable manner let me to that, those who are displaying inappropriate behavior and the government for those who are members of the society at large and are confronting a set of beliefs and culture for your five she would you rather both bombmaker the been ngamba, what is of utmost importance to us . Hes respect for peoples cultures, shock that is a sign of development to us. And its on Hold And Town Hall Meeting and how humans can do whatever they wish when theyre by themselves. But when theyre members of society, they must behave in such a way that their behaviors are accepted by the society at large. Otherwise, conflict will show in that society would you say that if there were another such set of protests you would make sure that the authorities would not brutally cracked down on an unarmed women protesting hottabich naturally, we have no right to confront the people with violence where she skinbaring, we have problems and challenges. But those are not justifiable excuses. In order for us to take out our frustrations on our citizens, on our people will know it is our Responsibility And Duty to serve them diligently and sincerely. And we will not fall short to this effort. So it doesnt matter. We must not even behave in such a way that would make people take to the streets. It is our actions in type of behavior that makes these events occurred so the more were able to better ourselves, the more we are going to positively impact the behavior of society at large thats what we seek mr. President people describe you as a moderate do you think you are a moderate or a reformer would you use those words . Man you sulli. I have a Principal A Principle that i firmly believe in bahrain have glad its justice and fairness. I am not a normal civilian. Youre donald aim and academic how. Girls so. I judge everything and accept everything based on scientific evidence, on social sciencebased evidence by reading again and have glad dollar that drama. If we are to realize this Fairness And Justice whether in our country, the region, or the world one of islams, we need reforms. Any Nima Meaning we cannot keep behaving and talking and being in the same way while expecting changes in the society. There are certain rights being trampled upon in the lands upon which we live. Justice is lacking in many places. So if we can ultimately create this world that we seek it will be a good world. Donyale hall has shown in War And Bloodshed will be ended abby. It is wanting too much and wanting everything that has unleashed humanity against itself. Mr. President, again thank you for bearing on our program. My pleasure next on gps, i talk to britains former Prime Minister Tony Blair about what sort of leadership is needed in these very troubled times scout is protected by cim Parakat Trio and hes in it to win it simply Erica Trio is the first its true with triple protection worms. Well these no problem with some parotid trio. This Drug Class has been associated with neurologic adverse reactions, including seizures, use with caution at odds with the history of these disorders for winning protection, go with Sympatric A Trio as a cardiologist, when i put my patients on a statin to reduce cholesterol, i also tell them it can deplete their coke. You ten levels. I recommend taking qn all co queue uten, Cute All has three times better absorption than regular putin kuno, the brand i trust Knockknock Number one broker here for the Number One hitmaker. Thanks for swinging by carl, no problems. So this is me, adjust the base, add more guitar, maybe some drums. So many choices. 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Com and find some wow, now for certain doctors recommend colaio Stool Softener for gentle dependable relief from constipation. Its so gentle. Doctors even recommended during pregnancy and after surgery, colleagues increases water in the stool making its softwares with easier to go, no harsh laxatives, cramping, restraining cold, and miserable resolve this and asheville, north carolina. And this is cnn the race between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump is exceptionally close and america could end up with a Populist Precedent for the second time in ten years in europe, populism continues to surge from the netherlands to germany, to italy it is a trend being watched very closely by Tony Blair, who govern the uk from 1997 to 2007 as the Labor Partys longest serving Prime Minister he has a Brand New book out called on leadership Tony Blair. Welcome. Thank you. Im so glad that im getting a chance to talk to you in this book is terrific. But it does pose this very interesting challenge. You came into power and clinton came into power when it felt like the winds of Global Change were moving in the direction of Democratization And Liberalization of markets and global even governance. I mean, the u. S. And the uk, were working together on so many issues where you could get the russians and the chinese Too Gray in the 90s it feels like all these trends are moving in a different direction mainly the opposite direction. This huge backlash, populism and so in that circumstance, isnt it much harder to be a leader i think it is harder, but i think the principles are still the same. And night the reason for writing the book was the odd thing about politics is that you can come to this position of extraordinary power where you, you take any decisions that intimately affect peoples lives and you got billions of billions of dollars that youre in Charge Opposite were and theres no guide to it in any other walk of life review, appoint a ceo of a company or a coach of a football team. You know, they got a long pedigree. A lot of experience its a lot of things to draw him, but not for leaders. This is the book is really an attempt to say, whatever the circumstances there were certain clear lessons of Leadership And Governance that you can learn from looking at whats happening Around The World. Now youre right today, its a much, much tougher environment. But i think the lessons are still the same about how you lead but having clarity of direction about being prepared to do the things that are difficult, not necessarily popular about assembling the right team around you but those things that we were thinking were part of the natural order of things back as we approached the millennium and the early part of this century. Now, theyre contested today but that makes it all the more important than my view that, you stand up for them. So you would you would stand up for them and push them because there are a lot of leaders, you know . Who are pandering to what appears to be rising public sentiment. Theyre tacking to the center or even to the right on some issues cultural issues, Immigration Protectionism in a sense that im sure that look at you and say yes, you dont have to win any elections anymore. Mr. Blair . True but i think the best way to win an election is to be absolutely clear where you stand and to set out a direction on a purpose and follow it. So i would distinguish also between an issue like immigration, which is a huge issue all over Western Politics where i dont think you can dismiss anxiety about immigration has just populism. And i will say about populace, they generally, in my experience, they exploit a grievance, but they dont create it. Right . The grievances theyre so it might view unless you control immigration today, you can have a big problem but when it comes to protectionism, for example, or anti globalization sentiment, fine, you can go down that path of you want, but youre going to find the cost of living goes up youll find its much harder, harder for businesses to operate. And one clear economic lesson of history is the more countries close in or themselves the less prosperous they become so some of, some of these things i think you have to say, okay, this is a new phenomenon. We have to deal with it. And thats different from the time that i was in office. But in other circumstances, you say weve got to stand up for things. So when it comes to Russias Invasion of ukraine, youve got to stand up and be clear about where you stand with the ukrainians. The left in europe in particular, is doing very badly right . If you look at the french left, the german social democrats, very bad shape. Even places like sweden where the left was dominant for decades and decades its doing badly. Why do you think in an age of rising cultural anxiety and why are, why is the left doing badly in parts of the right doing well . Yeah, because first of all, on some of these issues theyre, theyre, theyre not creating a policy that gives people confidence, for example, on immigration its not, its not wrong for people to worry about whether immigration under control or not, okay. Youre gonna get some people who are antiimmigrant. Youre never going to persuade those but others just worried theres no order in the system and one thing i think about today is that people want some order. They look at the world and find it disordered and they, they want therefore rules, controls around immigration. Now, if you have those controls, you can say no, its good for a country in britain has benefited hugely from immigration. Americans benefit hugely from immigration. But people want to know thats a decision, right . And its not simply an accident of someone wanting to come to a country. And if you dont get rules around immigration, you get prejudices. So thats one thing. But the second thing which i think is a big point of discussion now the progressive side of politics, it lacks an economic mission now, my view is that the single biggest thing thats going on in the World Today is the technology revolution. That you literally, if youre, if youre backend Government Today and Mind Steudtner works in over 40 different countries in the world for all of those governments, the question is, how do you understand this revolution . How do you master it and how do you harness it . And it could transform our Health Care systems there truly transform our Education Systems transform the Hallway Government operates, but theres huge challenges with that as well as cyber security disinformation. But how we deal with that should it is in my view, the if you like, the social democratic challenge for Todays World but a lot of politics on the Center Left today, either then ignores those Immigration Questions or doesnt have an answer to them or has an economic message thats kind of loosely around the state doing more. But without really getting to grips with this massive change thats happening in the in the realworld. When we come back, i asked Tony Blair for his take on the 2024 american president ial race. And the Leadership Qualities of Kamala Harris i got news for you saturday at nine on cnn this is pickleball is basically tennis for baby hes but for adults, it should be called wiffle tennis like we had nothing to worry about with etrade from morgan stanley. Were ready for whatever forget served up. You gotta working chest. Id rather work on saving for Retirement Or College since wed like to get schooled, has pretty good burns. God the game thanks for coming to our clinic. 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There is no Insurance Or Medicare required clear Caption Services provided at no cost to you through a federally funded program we deliver, install, and train you on how to use your phone all at no cost. See you give your Loved Ones the Independence And Connection they deserve coal now, to see if you qualify to get a Clear Captions phone at no cost to you, call 1809 9424 Get Cardia for to 79 at cardia. Com or amazon, the wait is over. Tim Walz And J. D. Vance in their first and only please to face debate. And cnn has covered with the best political team in the Business A Cnn special event, the Vice President ial debate tuesday at nine on cnn Closed Captioning brought to you by meso mesobook. Com if you or a Loved One have mesothelial not well send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and well come to you 808 to 14000 and we are back here on gps with the former Prime Minister of great britain, Tony Blair, talking about his new book on leadership, mr. Blair, youve written a fine book about leadership. So im going to ask you looking at Kamala Harris, right now, how do you think she rates as what are the early signs youre an Offer Leadership three, the one thing that you also learn as greece prime Minister And Id be listening to the politics here in america these last few days. This is your decision you, The Americans, you can decide that and the job of the british Prime Minister, even the job of former british Prime Ministers to work with whoever you elect the moment i start youre getting is not my itll be completely disrespectful and me to start evaluating either Kamala Harris are indeed donald Trump Or Anyone else in american politics. But let me ask you a more general question, which is trying to get to the same point in a different way. You no, no, no . You had you when you ran for office, you had a very specific set of political ideas. You set out very clearly, im moving the Labor Party its center. We are embracing aspects of the market. We are you know, you had all these Policy Proposals in a fair degree of detail. I think its fair to say both candidates now appeal are appealing more to the kind of, emotional sense of where the voter is. Do you think that there are a lot of people say, look, people make their decisions about, about voting from the god, not from the Head Et dont appeal to them with fancy policy ideas. I think people in the End Theyve Vote for a variety of reasons obviously. But at The End, i think whats in the interests of myself and my family and i think probably both candidates would say they havent policies by the way, i mean, would you agree with or disagree with them . But now, i think in The End one of things i say, the book is the toughest thing. You learning government is how hard policy is and this is why, whats fascinating about politics is at one level its a crude business, right . Youre shaking hands, kissing babies, youre making stump speeches watching their opinion polls, the focus groups. But when you got into Government Youve got to switch to a modus operandi, which is much more about how you run some and to reform a Healthcare System or youve tried to create a better Education System for your people. These are tough questions and i think you know, whoevers in Power Today its why its important to assemble a group of people in government who really understand the outside world. And one of the biggest risks that you have in Politics Today is where people because its a rough business and because i think a lot of good people get deterred from going into it by how rough it is. If youre not careful, youve got people whove spent the whole life and politics, and really you know, say this one young person wants to go into politics spend time outside of politics because i promise you the experience you get will make you a better politician when you finally enter when you look at putin, you look at she you know, those whole bunch of people who say, were in an age of autocracy. The democratic leadership that this is the great crisis and democratic leaders are not functioning well that the populations are dissatisfied what is the answer to that . The answer is for the democracy to be effective . But the challenge of democracy is efficacy. It is about actually things i talked about in the book there. Its how you move the country forward is how you get things done. And the reason why in a contrary to what i would have experienced 20 years ago, you go to countries now and who arent democratic, they say our democracy im not sure is because they think the politicians in the west are all about shortterm, not long term. Theyre all about easy answers, not dancers. And therefore, they think that weve created a political system that neither has in foreign policy staying power, or in domestic policy, real vision and understanding. But its up to us to prove them wrong because by the way, you say about the autocrats, yeah, sure. But as a result of being an autocracy, know one Challenge Putin he thought that he would literally go in and remove zelenskyy and take the country over. And as i said to people, you didnt need a great intelligence service. You just needed to go and talk to some young ukrainians. Realize i was never going to happen likewise with President Xi he was pursuing Zero Covid when the Omicron Variant comes along, its clear that policy is not going to work, but No Ones there to challenge him so china ends up tying itself to a policy that was clearly not going to work so if the problem of democracy is efficacy, the problem of autocracy is not open to challenge. And when people arent open to challenge, thats when bad things happen to, in a sensory of saying in a Democracies Problem now, its not, the problem is not legitimacy. Its efficacy, its showing that you can actually get stuff done. Yeah, exactly. You will youll deal with a lot of this populism if you show youve got answers because the populace in The End, right . The anger, they dont provide the Answer But Youve got to provide the answer. And what you cant do an i i always say this to the leaders i talked with in europe just railing against the populace its not going to work. Youve got to say, heres where we go. This is the answer. Heres how were going to control immigration, for example, heres how were going to deal with the new types of crime that are prevalent in our society. Heres how were going to make sure that people who come into our country integrate with the values of our country. If youre not having that conversation with people you then youll find that reasonable people get drawn to the populace Tony Blair, always a pleasure. Thank you thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week to 30 years. Ive been saying publicly what people say and turns out i have enough money i can just shut up, but you carve saturday, its seven on cnn every halloween, she copies me. But it michaels, sleep can be different no, youre tariff know exactly. You hear the most terrifying we look the same trains sense. 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