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A key hearing in trumps federal Election Subversion Case gets underway. Its the first since prosecutors revise their indictment last week following the supreme Courts Landmark ruling on president ial immunity. Earlier this year on the left side of your screen you will see whats happening in court coming from our reporters in the room. Lets get straight to cnn, chief legal Affairs Correspondent Paula reid shoe. Shes outside the courthouse for us. Paula, what are we expecting . Oh, good morning, jim. Today is all about how to move forward in this case after the Supreme Court issued an opinion that really limited what prosecutors can charge former President Trump with and which evidence they can introduce in this case. Now there are no cameras in federal courts, so we are relying on our team of reporters inside to provide us with updates. Also, the former president is not in attendance today. He that appearance has been waived. But what we expec is that Judge Tanya Chutkan, let me tell you, jim, she is all business. Shes going to come in with a plan. Shes going to have questions for him Defense Attorneys and for prosecutors all about scheduling and how to move forward. Now, a source familiar with the trump legal Team Strategy says they believe that a win here is really just delaying anything of substance until after the november election. Now, the Special Counsel, they havent put forth their own schedule, but they also havent agreed to that one. So were going to watch very closely to see how the judge is leaning in terms of how quickly she wants to proceed. The one Thing Everyone seems to agree on here, though jim, is that theres no way this case is going to trial anytime soon. All right. Paula stick with me. And lets bring in cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, cnn legal analyst and former you moments ago, is that its its obvious now at this point, were not going to get a trial before the november election, but there is the possibility that we could get some kind of evidentiary hearing which might add some details. So what we know about this case, so thats exactly what im watching for here. Judge chutkan welcome out and say, okay, parties, we have to go through this messy process now of figuring out what parts of the new revised indictment are still okay for trial which are not she could say were going to do that on paper. Youre going to write briefs. Im going to decide im going to issue a Written Ruling or the parties have not asked for this, but she would be within her rights to say were going to have a hearing and im going to need to hear from certain witnesses and that could happen, jim, really quickly, that could happen later in september in october. And so if the question is, how is this going to impact the election which im sure is on everyones mind. Thats the possibility that could have an impact on the election if we have a scenario where Mike Pence, for example, is getting on the stand in line say late septemberoctober, parties have not specifically asked for that, but its within Judge Chutkans purview. Okay. Gotcha. And we should note to our viewers, you can see in our Side Panel there a Judge Tanya Chutkan has taken the bench of the hearing is underway. Karen, let me go to you next. The Attorney General, Merrick Garland was asked yesterday about his confidence in the Special Counsel, Jack Smith. Ahead of this hearing. And heres what he had to say i stand by the actions of the Special Counsel the Superseding Indictment is an effort to respond to the direct instructions of the Supreme Court as to how to effectuate a new indictment in an ongoing case . The Special Counsel is required by the regulations to follow the policies of the Justice Department including the election sensitivities, policies. And im quite confident that he did so karen, what do you think about all that well, one of the things that trumps legal team is going to do is challenge the Appointment And Funding of a Special Counsel at all. Dont forget in the maralago documents case, a judge down there, judge. Aileen cannon found that it was inappropriate and invalid to be able to appoint a Special Counsel. So theyre going to be making that same argument here in front of Judge Tanya Chutkan. I dont think that that is going to have any merit, but its certainly adds to the Motion Practice and the delays that elie was talking about. And showing that this is not going to happen anytime soon yeah, im paula. I mean, you were saying a few moments ago were probably not going to see a trial before the november election, but do we have any kind of sense as to when one might happen . I mean, theres always the possibility that we could see something next year, i suppose. What do you think yeah, look, a trump is reelected. Former president is reelected. He will make this case. On the other federal case, go away. His Attorney General will dismiss them. But if hes not reelected according to the sources, ive spoken with, are familiar with both sides thinking is look there theres no way this is going to go to trial until next fall at the earliest because there are so many outstanding questions that still need to be resolved and litigated. I am told that a source familiar with the Trump Teams thinking is that theres no way this case goes to trial without at least one more trip back to the Supreme Court because there are a lot of questions about what evidence can be introduced in this case. While the Special Counsel did file a revised indictment last week, there are still pieces of evidence, including conversations that he had with his then Attorney General, Bill Barr, the Vice President Mike Pence. Does the defense will argue should be tossed out under the Supreme Courts opinion. So im told, look, this case is not going to trial anytime soon. Next fall the earliest, but there is likely at least one more trip back to the Supreme Court before this goes to trial. If it even survive Supreme Court review. But jim, some of the color were getting from inside the courtroom is actually pretty good. Our colleagues are reporting sort of on the rapport between the judge and the lawyers. Ive been in court in this case and i can tell you theyve been some pretty intense exchanges between Judge Tanya Chutkan and the Trump Defense attorneys but as she greeted the Trump Defense team, Judge Tanya Chutkin saying, quote, its been almost a year. You look rested to attorney John Lauro. He joked that quote, life was almost meaningless without but seeing you and she said, enjoy it while it lasts, perhaps signaling that this might not go the way the Trump Team hopes it will. But look, theres no love lost between the Trump Defense attorneys and the Special Counsel. But Judge Tanya Chutkin, she has a Firm Grip on her courtroom, but shes definitely has some spirited exchanges with both sides, and i think thats probably what were were going to see based on her mood this morning yeah. And the judge saying just a few moments ago, i dont intend to finalize his schedule at the hearing adding that she hopes to do so as soon as possible. And then now shes walking through each of the counts that trump has been charged with what are your thoughts so far . So whats happening here is called an arraignment. Now, people may remember theres so new indictment in this case, the original indictment dropped last summer and then last week, Jack Smith went and got what we call a Superseding Indictment, which essentially replaces the first indictment. So trump technically has to beat rearraigned on that advised of the charges enter his not guilty plea, ordinarily, a defendant needs to be physically present to do that. But because this is a superseding a second i can Indictment Trump was allowed to do that on paper, so a few days ago, he put in a piece of paper saying, ive seen the indictment. Ive authorized and instructed my attorneys to enter a not guilty plea, so theyre going through that formality now, trump is formally entering his not guilty plea as we see right there, i guess yeah. And the Defense Attorney has entered a not guilty plea on trumps behalf. To the Superseding Indictment of karen. Let me go back to you because elie was getting to a question that i have and that is to help our viewers out here a little bit. I mean, the charges in this case are so very serious. They have been slimmed down somewhat because of the ruling from the Supreme Court. But you know, there is trump is not Out Of The Woods legally lee by any stretch that is absolutely the case. Hes not Out Of The Woods. So the first indictment, the original indictment had four charges and the second indictment, the Superseding One that elies talking about that trump is being arraigned on right now as we speak, has those same exact charges yes the only thing that has been slimmed down is what is the evidence going to be to prove those charges. And so its all about the private conduct. Trump as a candidate, not as president. And that is what the indictment really focuses on and changes based on the supreme Court Ruling that said anything that because either Core President ial duties or official conduct is not appropriate as either charges or evidence in a case in a criminal prosecution of a former president so thats what Jack Smith did when he superseded this indictment. He took out any references to things where trump would have been immune now, of course, trump and his lawyers arent going to agree and theyre going to argue and thats what this is all about that exmouth still has inappropriate evidence and charges in there, so thats what Judge Chutkan has to sort through. Yeah. And elie, i mean, i guess we should note is says Trumps Attorney has confirmed that the former president has received a copy of the new indictment. But one of the things i think will be fascinating with this hearing, elie is whether we get any kind of indication from a Judge Checkin as to how shes going to proceed, whether she it feels as though things need to be slowed down because of what the Supreme Court did perhaps the case needs to be looked at differently because of the Supreme Court did what do you whats your sense of that . Im interested in her take on the new slimmeddown indictment. We saw the clip earlier where the Attorney General Merrick Garland said what Jack Smith has tried to do here is conform his indictment to meet the Supreme Courts the opinion. I think thats exactly right. I think thats what Jack Smith did. So i want to see is Judge Chutkan still skeptical of it or is her Point Of View more along the lines of well, now that we have this slimmeddown indictment, we should be in good shape or is she of the Point Of View of this indictment still needs to be trimmed down even further. Thats a key thing to watch for an interesting, all right, Everyone Stay with us. Justin well have more on this very key hearing in Donald Trumps federal Election Interference Case stay with us. Youre in the Cnn Newsroom Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, the debate. Everyones been waiting for follows cnn for complete coverage and exclusive pre and postdebate analysis. A cnn special event, the abc News President ial debate tuesday at nine eastern on Cnn And Streaming on max. I think really going to spend all Day Streaming College football on directv. Can you blame them . Theyve got the biggest rivalries and Bowl Games speaking up, frank, run a slant to the bolded chips. Bobby, one hook to the salsa what are you going to do . Coach prime, dont question you. Coach Matt Wealth changing question. Has your advisor create a portfolio based only on your Age And Risk tolerance . Thats simply not good enough. Your money deserves better and soda you. 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This is very interesting, Judge Chutkin saying, lets first talk about the Immunity Issue. The judge calling prosecutor Thomas Wyndham to the lectern to discuss the issue of president ial immunity. So theyre going to dive right into this led. This is very important, and im interested to see what the prosecutor says because Jack Smith took a slightly different tone in his recent filings from what he has he said previously, i mean, in the early stages of this case, Jack Smith was gungho. Lets go lets try this thing. No need for delay. He originally asked for a Trial Date for months after the indictment in his more recent filings, though hes sort of being a little more passive saying, well, its up to you corps, you, judge, you can set the dates and will comply. Were ready to go as necessary with our briefing, but Theyve Theyve taken the foot off the gas a little bit. So what he does here and karen, i mean, this is interesting, the prosecutor saying back to the judge, i dont think were going to typical situation here. That Panel Logistx Flash forward said, the Supreme Court has made new law and that is in reference to their decision about crimes committed allegedly committed by a president while in office, which the Supreme Court ruled on. Can you help us break that down . Yes. So never before had this supreme Court Or Anybody ruled on the question of whether or not a President Of The United States is immune from criminal prosecution. So it has been talked about and ruled in a civil context, but never before in a criminal context so thats what he hes referring to when he says that the July 1st decision on president ial immunity new law because it actually spelled out and for the first time ever in the history of this country said, a President Of The United States or a former president is absolutely immune from criminal prosecution for acts that are within their Core President ial duties and their presumptively immune for anything within the outer perimeter of his duties, which basically means when the president is doing his job and acting as president , he is immune from criminal prosecution. However, if he was acting as a candidate or a private citizen the acts were unofficial. Thats where you can be prosecuted criminally. Yanis, his prosecutors want a comprehensive discussion to both pled an unplugged acts in order for the judge to make holistic decisions on the issue of immunity. So obviously this Immunity Issue is playing out in paul, i want to go to you because the former president has been saying a lot of things out in public recently regarding the election just recently, he said something about how he lost the race by a whisker even though he keeps maintaining that there was fraud in the 2020 election. Of course, that is not true. That is bogus. And hes also said things so along the lines of that, he has every right to interfere in an election. I can think both of those things are going to be very interesting to Jack Smith. But lets play a little bit of trumps saying recently that he lost the election by a whisker talk. Lets talk about this i was told if i got 63 million, which is what i got the first time you would when you cant not win i got millions of more votes than that. And lost by a whisker yeah, paul, what can you tell us about that well, look clearly the former president , hes a challenging client. He says things that sometimes contradict previous statements so in anticipation of todays hearing, i asked sources close to his legal team whether this could impact this January 6 Election Subversion Case, and they dont believe that those comments the other day will really impact this case. They dont believe that they will come in and let me expand on that a little bit more because their argument is going to be that under the Supreme Courts recent decision, the only evidence about whether trump knew he won or lost the election that should come in is evidenced. That is not related to his official acts. They believe that his former Attorney General, Bill Barr or his former Vice President Mike Pence, those discussions under the supreme Court Decision should all be tossed and they argue that what will be left . Just lawyers telling him that he did in fact win the election and that these newer statements that these will not come in at trial looked Jack Smith may have different different opinions. There and it says on our Side Panel, there that the prosecutor wants to see the judge set forth for the court and for the participants involved in this case which is subject to president ial immunity and which is not, which is private actions and which is not what about that elie . So a couple of things theyre developing now in the courtroom. So first of all, the prosecution has said, we want there to be only one appeal. Theres clearly going to be an appeal before trial. What the prosecution wants to avoid is a situation where trump gets to appeal to three times. So the prosecutor saying, lets be efficient, lets deal with the Immunity Issue and any other issue, so we can only have to go through the appeal one more time. Another interesting thing that the prosecutor said, he said when we submit our briefs, judge were going to attach Grand Jury testimony, which means were going to get to see that for the first time. If thats the way it goes, because Grand Jury testimony is ordinarily secret. The only way we get to see it is a situation like this where a prosecutor attaches it to a brief. So if thats the way this goes, were going to get a peek inside the Grand Jury may be learned some new things about what key witnesses have testified, too. You, karen, because i mean one of the core arguments of all of this is that yes, Donald Trump was in office when these alleged activities were going on . But while he was in office, he was acting. The prosecution would say as a private citizens seeking Reelection Acting as a candidate. A lot of this has to get parsed out exactly. And thats exactly what Judge Chutkan has to figure out, is what are what is President Trump at the time acting as President Trump. And when was he acting as candidate for Office Slash private citizen trump. And shes going to determine whether that can be done just on the papers through briefing, or whether they have to have some sort of evidentiary hearing to develop this testimony. Now, the fact that Jack Smiths staff is saying that we want to attach Grand Jury testimony. I think that what theyre signaling is you dont need to have an evidentiary hearing. We can give you that evidence here on papers and attach it to our papers so there there might not be a need for a hearing to develop the facts and one of the federal prosecutors has just said that they hope to have some arguments submitted to the court within the next couple of weeks and the judge notes that that would put submission of the brief at The End of september. So it looks like we might see some further activity in this case around The End of september perhaps the first of the next month. But in the meantime, you have been watching our coverage of the Trump Election Interference hearing since the Immunity Ruling from the Supreme Court theres been a Lot To Unpack will continue to do that with other news as well as they will you right back up for Pecker Tv on the edge from here its sunday, september 22. Did nine on cnn. I got matched with these guides. I go measure with these Car Insurance companies experience shops, mike unfold over 40 top providers saving me over 800 Bucks a year. I want that kind of relationship start now, free at experian. Com slash car, growing your business is easing. Once you know the moves with Go Daddy Websites Plus marketing, you can quickly create a Website And A. I. Will customize it for you. Do your business out there, and get more customers in here. 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Did what . 699 foot long says right ear, 699 for any Fo200 Coventry direct redefining insurance this is cnn, the Worlds News Network all right. Welcome back. You are watching continuing coverage of the Trump Election Interference hearing since the Supreme Courts Immunity Ruling that is taking place here in washington right now, Judge Tanya Chutkan presiding over this going backandforth with Trumps Attorney in court right now. And i want to go out to Paula Reid very quickly because paula, i know you have been following these updates coming out of the courtroom from our reporters who are inside doing amazing work of feeding us exactly whats going on. Whats the crux of what weve been hearing . So far . It sounds like a pretty lively exchange between a Judge Checkin and Trumps Attorneys its getting a little spicy in there, jim, im reading these live updates from our colleagues here on my phone and the Trump Team got up its their turn and theyre being looked theyre being pretty dramatic and we know that sometimes the Defense Attorneys, they need to play to an audience of one and i say theyre dramatic because some of the things that theyre saying in court right now, just do not match what are in their filings. We know from the joint filing between them and prosecutors that look, they dont agree on everything when it comes to scheduling, but theyre also not that far apart, but here the defendant Thats Attorney got up and said he could not imagine a more unfair protocol. Than what the Special Counsel is suggesting going forward. Now, the judge clearly doesnt agree with that, but the Defense Attorneys also argue that the Supreme Court has already decided whether prosecutors can use evidence around Vice President Mike Pence, and the judge cut him off and said, i would disagree with that. And this is significant because this is really going to be the next area of dispute between prosecutors, Defense Attorneys, and clearly, the judge the judge here noting that it is up to her the Supreme Court has given her discretion on this issues, so its clear that this may not go exactly the way the Defense Attorneys hoped with our number one goal here today, jim, is to just delay anything of substance until after november yeah. I mean, paula, what were Trumps Attorneys expecting Judge Chutkan has just come in today and say case dismissed absolutely not. Look, they they do believe that she is fair, but this is someone who is tough. She has a command of her courtroom. She comes in prepared, and she does like to spar a little bit both with Prosecutors Petersburg probably more so with Defense Attorneys because again, sometimes they come in and this is interesting their client. Yeah. Yeah. And laura wants chutkan to decide whether this new indictment is legitimate. I mean, that is interesting so were certainly getting some details coming in in real time. We want to continue to go over those, paula, forgive me for interrupting. I want to go to former trump impeachment attorney Michael Van Der veen. He is with us as well. Michael, i dont know if youve been following along some of these updates coming out of the courthouse from our reporters who were inside Judge Chutkans courtroom. But it sounds as though theres a lot to untangle here. And but Judge Chutkan is pressing forward yeah you know, shes in an interesting position because this isnt the kind of case really judges how to handle before but shes going to really have to try to parse out on this new indictment what types of evidence can come in and what types of evidence can come out. And i think that maria, you get into the weeds. Im not i think youre going to see barring in the courtroom just a few moments ago, Judge Chutkan said she has to decide whether the conversations that were going on with former Vice President Mike Pence and so on. Were outside the bounds of official president ial conduct. Michael, it sounds as though the crux of this case is going to be and some of this is going to get sorted out. It sounds like from the judge before we even get to a trial which actions from the former president then President Trump were considered official acts of the office of president united states in which actions were those carried out by somebody who was trying to get reelected . Michael, you still there, you froze for a second yeah. No, thats absolutely right they have set up several different buckets of evidence. Were official acts. And what are private acts and official Acts Evidence will be admissible more on that private Ac Edence Wont know how you differentiate the two is going to have to do with the timing of evidence being created, that the conversations and what not and who else was involved . And elie, this is important right here. You were just saying that this argument that is going to be happening over filing briefings on immunity. And so on. This is this is key. Yeah. So trumps lawyers just said we need a full and robust record and trumps lawyers just said we need an evidentiary hearing, meaning we want live witnesses because i actually dont want the opposite. Right the complaint that they made earlier we talked earlier about Grand Jury transcripts. The prosecutors have said, well, we would like to submit Grand Jury transcripts and attach them to our briefs. Says lauro says they were not suggesting the case should go into the fall of next year, but that the issues at Hand Need to be dealt with careful. Right. So he wants to slow down here, wants a hearing, but certainly not before the election. But what trumps team is saying is were not satisfied with Grand Jury transcripts because theyre onesided. Its only the prosecutor asking questions of the witnesses. Theres no Defense Lawyer. Theres no crossexamination, and they feel Trump Team feels as though the judge is its going to dismiss this case once they see their filings. Judge says that immunity needs to be dealt with as early as possible. Yeah. So im skeptical. The first part of that, i dont think the judge is going to throw the indictment out. Yeah. But yeah. I mean, look, the judge clearly wants to wants to deal with this and they recognize they have a long road ahead. Trumps team is just trying to slow it down and the judge seems aligned with prosecutors here. Lets move as quickly as we can yeah michael, i mean, you would agree that the Supreme Court has given Judge Chutkan a Lot To Unpack, a lot to untangle this case becomes very complicated, does it not it certainly does. I mean procedurally, you know, you going to have motion thats under constitutional grounds. Now under this supreme Court Decision, youre going to have a lot of motions and lemony, im evidence there are is not going to be one evidentiary hearing. You know, its going to be days and days really to go through all of the evidence that they wanted to use. I know they got out a lot in the indictment. They also left a lot in it michaels lot a good is that a good idea for trumps Defense Team to want and evidentiary hearing particularly before the election. Well you know those are two different things. There are two different considerations there. You know, one is the legal System And Venus criminal Defense Lawyer and the other one is is using The End of a campaign. And thats the balance his lawyers pat how might all of the time, but they need to know what evidence they think the judges can all that end. Then craft other motion from there so they got to happen hearing and if they get to have it afterwards, of course, but they also need move with the pace that the court requires. Yeah and Trumps Attorney is saying it is inherently unfair, inequitable process for prosecutors to immediately file Immunity Arguments. Elie i mean trumps team and Donald Trump, Theyve Theyve been playing this Delay Playbook for months now. Years now. And they want to continue it. Well, theyve already largely succeeded by evidenced by the fact that were not going to have a trial between now and the election, but its important to understand whats happening here. Prosecutors are saying, lets get the Immunity Arguments started quickly. We want to submit the first brief within two or three weeks. Were going to attach Grand Jury transcripts. Just show oh, the world whats been said and testified to the Grand Jury and trumps team is saying, oh, no, no, we dont want that. Thats one sided and we want it to happen much more slowly and the judge is saying Theres Nothing inherently violative of Due Process to have the prosecutions timetable what John Lauro says, heres exactly what i just said. Hes going Back Lawyer incredibly unfair that they the prosecutors are able to put in the public Record Evidence against trump at this time, so they dont want the prosecution to put evidence into a filing right. At the court before the election. Thats apparently what trumps team is saying right now. Yeah. And in the papers leading up to this, trumps team said we shouldnt even dig into the Immunity Argument until december karen, whats why is that important . If i get a quick thought from you before going to break, yeah, its important because if you are immune from prosecution, thats a Threshold Question means you cannot be prosecuted. It means youre not guilty. And so what theyre saying is that would be prejudicial to put all this stuff out there if there and i dont im sorry to interrupt. Trumps attorney he just suggested its too close to the election, according to our reporters Side Panel. And Judge Chutkan says in response to that, maybe im maybe its a too long of an odd im reading it there, but she says in response to that, go ahead, karen and the judge says, i understand theres an election and pending. Go ahead. Sorry about that, karen, go ahead no. Really thats what shes trying to get them to say on the record that the whole reason theres no reason for example, in a criminal case to delay things as long as judge as long as lauro trumps lawyer wants to and delay them. And so thats why she keeps asking and pushing them. Why are you asking for this timetable . And they finally admitted its because of the election. She just wanted to put that on the record because she doesnt think these issues will take that long. Yeah. She says youve said before, i will say again that the electoral process of what needs to happen before the election does not matter here. So, Judge Chutkin, if folks thought she was going to cool her jets after the Supreme Court and what they decided not so much. Yes. Shes made clear that shes made clear from the start that she doesnt care about the election. We can argue whether thats a good thing or a bad thing. Right or wrong for a judge, but shes using trumps own position against him saying before you were sort of insistent that we shouldnt do this before youre still insistent, we shouldnt do says this court is not concerned with the electoral schedule. She has said that many times before this court right yeah. Sure. Interesting, very interesting choice of words there from Judge Chutkan. We an got to get to break it to some other news, but very interesting, the judge, in this case and Trumps Attorneys going back can forth about whether or not some of this evidence that the prosecution wants to put into court filings with the court whether or not thats going to be allowed to happen before the election. Very, very key argument thats right now in this Election Interference Case, hearing playing out right now here in washington, right back after a quick Break Cnn special event, the abc News President ial debate simulcast tuesday at Nine Jays really knows how to put the heart and your local community. See what i did there jackie evan, my guy. You have alone was davids right understanding that somebody like then when i started my just got there first Debit Card as crimo, you i got you we hold on, dont you owe me money youre money is a party of community, so your bank should be to light Chase Hers believes in a world where your Health Care Isnt determined by where you live, what you do, or whether you have insurance. Its personalized to your unique needs. Thats why we created Weight Loss by hurs 100 online access to glp1 ejections and as far as little as 199 per month, including options compounded in the usa and available. 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Com if you or a loved one have knees with helium up, well send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and well come to you 800 a31, 3,700 welcome back. Were continuing to follow this hearing that is taking place in Donald Trumps Election Interference Case since the Supreme Courts very important Landmark Ruling on immunity in all of this. And we can see the Judge Chutkin and Trumps Attorney going back and forth, laura arguing that Judge Chutkan may rule that the Pence Evidence is immune and as an initial matter, the court can dismiss this case right away. And so it sounds as chutkan says, the Supreme Court could have decided the entire indictment was flawed. So theyre going back and forth. Over trumps actions when he was president united states, which the Trump Team is saying, okay, that falls under actions of the president and Judge Chutkin saying, not so fast . Yes. So the key Battleground Right here is Mike Pence. Now in the Supreme Courts ruling, there was discussion about this earlier. The court said that evidence relating to trumps conversations with the Vice President is presumptively immune but not automatically immune. Now, the judge says, yes, she has she does not agree that she can dismiss the Superseding Indictment altogether. You want they want this right now. Trumps team is saying, if the conversations with Trump And Pence are immune, you need to throw this whole indictment out. But what Judge Chutkan is saying here is not necessarily what i need to do is parse this thing, maybe go paragraph by paragraph and decide some parts or in some Parser Up which the judge does seem to be indicating that shes leaning towards allowing the Mike Pence testimony indicates and helped me elie just for a second for our viewers, just so we dont overlook the importance of what were talking about here. When were talking about the pence conversation, were talking about Donald Trump attempting to twist Mike Pences arms into overturning the Election Results as part of his procedural duty presiding over the counting of electoral votes on January 6. Thats exactly the issue. Its interesting because laura, its kind of important. Kind of got to matter to the story as well. Yeah, lauro, whos trumps lawyer, keeps arguing. The Supreme Court already said pences testimony is out, and Judge Chutkan correctly says, no, thats not quite what they said. They said its presumptively out, but its still up to me. The district judge, to consider whether its interrupt. There are some categories that are automatically out. This is sort of that middle category of probably out but not necessarily. And so the judge is right in characterizing the Supreme Court opinion. Shes pushing back on the Trump Attorney says the indictment should be dismissed immediately over Grand Jury issues and that arguing over immunity would no longer be necessary. And so hes throwing the Kitchen Sink at this. Hes tried that five times already. I can keep saying no. Thats not going anyway. Alright, fascinating developments. Obviously, this case continues. Its going be pretty hard fought. There in court between the judge and Trumps Attorney. Were going to keep monitoring all of this. We have other news to get to after a quick break, well be right back. Thanks Chasing Life with dr. Sanjay gupta is brought to you by sleet number, sleep better together with aSleep Numbers, smart bad. Its the only bad that let you make each side firmer or softer whenever you like, youre aSleep Numbers setting only at asleep Number Store or aSleep Number. Com. Now go to cnn. 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And this is cnn all right we will get back to trumps Immunity Hearing in just a moment. But yet another american community is reeling this morning shattered by a Mass Shooting. Four people were killed at apalachee High School in winder georgia. The suspect, a 14yearold student, and while the investigation is just beginning i do want to take a moment to honor the victims, the two students and two teachers who went to School Yesterday and never came home. This is Mason Schumer Horn he was 14yearsold, New York Times reports that his friends and family described him as a lighthearted teenager who likes reading, playing Video Games and visiting Disneyworld Christian and guo was also 14yearsold. Look at this photo. Hes lighting the candles on a 40th birthday cake. His sister says, he was very sweet, so caring and so loved by many this is Richard Aspen wall, the 39yearold father, taught math at the High School and was an assistant Football Coach Christina Era me was also a math teacher. She was 53yearsold. And here is how one of her students described her to cbs there when i first came into class, miss she she me its a corny jokes at the time is just like we use during you just like what is he talking about, but now its just like Dang Right . You could get a Question Wrong going to board. And shes not going to make you feel dawn. She really make you, you know, shell make you feel welcome for those who survived the horror, panic, and trauma of yesterday will stay with them. These are the messages between a 17yearold Student and his mother as the shooting was happening, her son says School Shooting right now. Im scared. Please im not joking. His mother responds. Im leaving work. She started rushing toward the school and then he sends, i love you. Not knowing if that would be his last message. His mom texts, love you too, baby. She later described what was going through her mind at that moment i hope hes alive when i get there and this is really happening. And i just prayed as you would be okay when i got there when thankfully, he was and were learning more this hour about the red flags coming from the suspect and the georgia high School Shooting more than a year ago, Law Enforcement officials questioned him and connection with anonymous online threats about carrying out a Mass Shooting at his School Official it will say there was no probable cause to arrest him as he denied making the threats, the suspect is expected to make. His first court appearance tomorrow. Cnns Nick Valencia is outside apalachee High School. Nick, just an awful day for the community there. What more can you tell us . Well, jim, there are a lot of questions here. The principle one being, what more could have been done to stop this, especially when you consider what the fbi released in a statement Last Night along with local Law Enforcement saying that this individual last year when he was 13yearsold, was questioned by Law Enforcement officials because of a series of Anonymous Tips about postings made on Social Media threats made on solar for media. The than 13yearold denied making those threats. It was determined that the father had a hunting rifle, but then 13yearold did not have unsupervised access to it. More questions this morning though considering that interaction, if police could have taken that more seriously, your question, the parents more further. How was this weapon obtain . Thats another big question this morning. We learned overnight that this Style Caliber Weapon was an ar15 15 rifle that was used. The other big question is how it could have gotten into this school . And lastly, one of the major questions that is being underscored here by the community. There was a series of Phone Calls made yesterday, threats that were called into the school indicating that a shooting was its going to happen here and that it was going to begin here at apalachee. Were told from the timeline of events that the school did not go into lockdown right away after that threat and it wasnt until the shooting began that the lockdown and suit. So all of those questions really unanswered here so far, a day after the shooting, jim all right Nick Valencia. Thank you very much. And well have more from winder and the Trump Hearing at the top of our hour with Wolf Blitzer, i want to leave you with a moment from Last Nights vigil. As that community mourns for lives lost we know that we have confusion and anger. We have questions that we want to answer we want to see justice done. We want to see right. Be done. 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Tuesday at nine eastern on Cnn And Streaming on max youre in the Cnn Newsroom. Im Wolf Blitzer in washington, happening now the federal Special Counsel, Jack Smith and lawyers for Donald Trump, they are back in the Court Room a key hearing is underway in the former president s federal Election Interference Case. Its the first hearing since prosecutors revise their initial indictment after the us Supreme Courts controversial so decision on president ial immunity. There are no cameras allowed in the federal courtroom