could not have been more wrong on about the job of iceberg, which he described as quote, the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination can see. >> now, just expected john adams. it just never occurred to him that america would have a president like donald trump. trump, it can be argued, sees the job of vice president as very significant. >> good evening. i'm jim acosta and for laura on this friday night? the last time donald trump had a vice president, it ended like this with a mob of trump supporters storming the capitol, demanding day hang mike pence, punishment for not going along with trump's plans to subvert the 2020 election. as we all witnessed, trump saw the job of vice president as an aide he said the whole for maintaining the presidency, no matter what the voters decided. this time around, trump is likely applying a pence proved loyalty test before he picks a running mate, someone who won't let them down, no matter what. and it appears trump has maybe started to narrow down the shortlist cnn is reporting that senator marco rubio senator jd vance, and north dakota governor doug burgum are considered the top contenders, at least for now and behind the scenes, it turns out they each have a network of influential voice is bending trump's. you're trying to convince them to pick their guide for senator rubio. he has fox news host sean hannity and kellyanne conway it's corner not bad. they argued he'd helped trump with latino voters in key swing states. rubio, even recently won a straw poll at a high-dollar dinner last month at trump attended jd vance has some maga originals backing him. the president's son, don junior's, steve bannon and tucker carlson all pulling for the senator from ohio, seeing him as a fighter for the mega cause governor burgum. meanwhile, is getting backing from big business, the rupert murdoch news empire has been praising him with flattering editorials from the new york post and the wall street journal. not flashy, but mature they wrote a burgum. the governor has something else going for him. he appeals to trump's love of central casting, picking people who looked the part and according to fox business, burgum really looks the part katie pamphlets, you just matter. >> yes. yeah. this is bark. she says, you look like george washington. you look just like george washington focus in on him don't know if we have a handy picture of george washington. she claimed k is a very smart woman and my only question is how long have you looked like george washington barely about second use to be george washington john adams you have to wonder especially for rubio advance, if trump will be able to look past as he would put it, the nasty things they have said about it they can't stomach trump. >> i think that he's noxious and is leading the white working class to a very dark place. >> you know what they say about men with small hands you can't trust them. >> would you ever do business with donald trump i don't think so why i would i just think that it's important that you're judged by the company you keep are joining me now, former republican congressman joe walsh when we're obama campaign adviser or miescher cross. >> and washington post columnist philip bump you guys tried, didn't think we're going to do but john adams reference on a friday night. but here we are burgum rubio and vance are the top contenders. it seems right now, joe, a lot of people are in trump's here. >> i mean, what do you think? what's going to happen here? >> i actually think that unlike can 16, jim, i think trump thinks he's going to win. so i think he's kind of unchained. i think he's gonna do whatever he wants, not listened to who is advisers. what we know is this whoever he picks is going to have to say trump won in 2020 and is going to have to say the deep state is after him now outside of that, i don't think it matters. >> yeah. i mean, emission joe's got a good point. i mean, in 2016, it seemed donald trump needed mike pence to some extent and folks have been applying the mike pence model to doug burgum this time around and that he kinda fits the same old, but maybe if joe's right and down from thinks he's going to win, maybe he does go for our jd vance, somebody who appeals to the next generation of maga folks. >> i think that's right. the ground game has changed significantly since trump first ran at this point because he is the leader of the party that has been proven multiple times over. he also has such a strong hold on the base that he doesn't necessarily need someone to help him pull along some of these moves we're hard to reach things and i don't think he's worried about that. what he wants is someone who will be a strict loyalist. he wants someone who will not shake the apple cart too much because even wants to be the star of the show. he also wants someone and who will not run in 2028 because they think he's looking to have his son hoisted up, next election cycle. >> that's interesting and fill up i mean, you and i observed a lot of this a trump presidency. there is no other human being on the planet who could have been more loyal to donald trump than mike pence. i remember remember when they were going around the cabinet room table and they would all we would call it the dear leader treatment that they would give donald trump. they would praise him and no buddy prays donald trump like mike pence. it was, it was just something to behold and i have to think trump likes that and wants that this time around as well. i don't know what set me straight. what do you think? >> no. i mean, that's very true. i mean, i remember that it's time when done from moved his water off the table and mike pence moved his motorbike off the table. >> that synchronicity i think jewelries is an important point here, which is, this is donald trump. this is the guy who sees people on fox news and it's like, hey, this person should be in my administration are walking along with his valid plane and tap some first senior posts, like, who knows, right we go through the machinations of talking about who, who's on a shortlist. but he could throw someone on the shortlist 24 hours before he actually, now, it's just it's always up in the air with donald trump. i think that all the observations are correct, that he doesn't want some to overshadow him we want someone who's going to nod along with him wherever he goes. but there are lots of people who fall into that category. i think that until we actually hear a name, i would be pretty much just no one would sprite basically is anything short of hillary clinton would not, would not an opinion surprise that might be a little bit of a surprise i get your point. >> and joe, i mean the thing that i wonder about is that those clips we were playing earlier, they've all bashed trump in the past, especially rubio and vance. i mean vance has made hitler comparisons to donald trump with the best marco rubio is talked about donald trump saying those are things that he absolutely hates. dr. doug burgum maybe i wouldn't have done business with them. that doesn't i mean, that's, you know, not exactly on the same line. >> that's a great point. yeah those three went after him. and even when burgum says, i would never do business with them, that's a really big deal. but here's what else trump loves. trump loves when you that's something bad about them. and then you come to them and you're on your true and now you're the greatest thing in the lindsey graham example, these three are all that, that's me should, i mean, who? should the obama excuse me. >> freudian slip there. >> biden harris, a team worry about this time around. >> what do you think? >> i don't think they need to worry about any of the vp candidate. they think that they need to keep in donald j. trump because he is a wily fellow. he said someone who was completely unpredictable and looking at even with the felony convictions, it seemingly has only helped him in terms of fundraising capacity and it hasn't shrunk polls are to believe be believe it hasn't shrunk his capacity to maintain gains in the battleground states. yeah, the biden campaign has to be most worried about turning out younger voters black voters, ensuring that they show up in november yeah. >> what don't you make of this trump floating this idea of giving green cards to foreign students after they graduate. i mean, you here's what steve bannon assange about it. >> how about this is alternative we cut in half the number of foreign students we take in the country and allow american kids to get into those engineering school the exit visa should be clipped to the to the diploma. the exit visa now, i mean, apparently trump has walked back some of these comments saying there should be an aggressive vetting process, but i mean, it also really clashes i felt with what trump is set out on the campaign trail about migrants are poisoning the blood of the country and so on. >> what did you make of that hole 24 hours of news that that generate that comment? >> i mean, if it was really revealing, it was donald trump recognizing that people who immigrate to the united states have value, which is something you generally doesn't say, right? and i think the most telling example and i wrote about the state for the post was the fact that he has spent over the course of the past several months he keeps talking about military aged males, trying to imply that younger people were coming to the country or dangerous somehow, he literally said that china was sending people to the country to set up a secret army within the united states. but the people who we're talking about here are obviously military age because they're college-age students. >> the the one of the largest countries that is represented among the foreign student population. >> united states is chinese people it is the case that there are young chinese people who are attending universities who he understands have value and add value to the united states in the context of going to school. but he refuses to acknowledge that immigrants otherwise do. and so i thought it was really revealing because it showed the contradiction at the harb immigration policy yeah. >> joe, i don't know what you want to say in response to that, but there was a moment that flashing light hit that. maybe trump is thinking about marco rubio and putting it on the ticket because that idea from trump's sounded as though he's trying to moderate his tone on immigration just to touch. and it made me wonder if rubio maybe making some inroads here. i maybe i think you're giving trump too much credit, right? >> thinking this through, i think he look the base of the party is not there. the base of the party and look what trump did for four years when he was president, he limited as best as he could legal immigration. >> that's where the party is. unfortunate. >> family separation. that was among many policies, draconian policies that absolutely number that i would say republican lids and phobia and nash, white nationalism. this does not walk in locks, lockstep with donald trump when he was president or anywhere on the campaign trail up until this point. but i think he's being more responsive to the recent policies out of the biden administration moving towards creating pathways for for a daca recipients more so than anything else. i don't think that this has much to do with a potential vp pick as much as it is. hey, the president just released this a couple of days ago. let me jump into that new cycle on that front as well. it is receiving pushback from the base that he created that really doesn't want to to see any form of immigration reform. >> yeah, and fill it could be just as simple as something that flashed in his head one moment right before he said it publicly. i mean, this week phil i did want to ask you because i still have this on my mind for my show by 10:00 a.m. show yesterday, van joel segall, joe biden has a bad night during the debate. this could be it do you subscribe to that idea when you talk to folks, what are you hearing? and i did we have time quickly, just ask each of you that yeah. >> i don't think so. i mean, it is still early and obviously depends on what the bad thing is, but there's lots of time to recover i think a lot of the age stuff is frankly baked in jail. >> i agree it would have to be a horrible night. yeah. and you just don't see job? i don't see that. what do you think you can make sure? >> i don't see that happening either. the expectations are obviously higher for the sitting president than they are for donald trump going into this. but i do think categorically and historic we've seen sitting president in their first, their first debate, not necessarily knock it out of the park, but we know that joe biden is putting in so much effort here he is. he has some of the best the prize training him, walking him through this process. he knows what he's doing. he's not going to want this early, but he's got a lot of pros that that's true. the biden folks didn't want this early and you do you get the sense that the trump folks including donald trump, realized that they set the expectations too low for joe biden reason we've just everyday talking about his wandering mr. they turned him into mr. mo gu and if he doesn't perform like mr. mo gu, next thursday night, obviously he's gonna he's gonna have a good night and somebody whispered trump's here and said maybe we should knock this off all right, guys. thanks a lot. really appreciate it. just ahead religions entering the 2024 campaign with the new controversial endorsement from don trump will talk about this in just a few moments, less than a week away from the first presidential debate on cnn could change the minds of voters who are undecided at this point we're going to talk to two of them just a few moments. they were this for that thursday night live from atlanta the most anticipated moment this election biden renren read america isn't future because that's where we are a nation of possibility, trump. we had the best economy, we had the best border, we had the best of everything. and now we get to do it all hello, very good. we're gonna do it even better. two very different visions for america. >> one unprecedented night moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate crews the net it nine live on cnn and streaming on max this is the one, this is what we call a question. >> student body math proficiency. but he said good, fair, satisfactory, like a percentage if you had to guess understood great student-teacher ratio we, bring, you, the real in-depth school info. what were you thinking? >> i don't know don't know homes.com lumina whitening strips? no brock side, no pain. i can use them every day if i want. what i want, drink what i want, profit aluminium strip ben. hello my smile is back on point easy they say seeing 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president donald trump face off for the first time in four years, but with one similar goal in mind. >> adding to portray their arrival as unfit for office, but is that what voters are looking for come next thursday? i want to bring in two undecided and independent voters to weigh and caitlin wander of florida and brandon nelson of minnesota, guys, thanks to both of you for coming on tonight, staying up late on a friday night for us i appreciate it. brandon, let me let me just start with you first. you voted apparently you voted for president biden four years ago but you're undecided this time around. why? >> that is correct i voted for joe biden for president in 2020 with my hopes that we would chart a path of courageous moral leadership and the oval office and several issues since that time have led me to regret that vote at this point such as my principal issue right now is the ongoing conflict between israel and hamas i recently became the new fec no, keep going, please. >> sorry for the audio delayed that's okay. >> i recently became a new father and that's come with a whole wealth of new responsibilities. and one of the big ones i find myself thinking about is what kind of a world i want, world i want my daughter to grow up for my entire adult life and most of my childhood, america has always been at a war-footing. and i was hoping that we could perhaps shift more towards a time of peace that's the world i hope that she'll grow up in i don't see the current administration taking the steps necessary to make that happen. >> and kaitlan, let me what's holding you back now you know, to be honest, i try to keep an open mind. >> i think that there's a lot of expectations on how to vote just from i wanted to really understand what was happening and look at the issues side-by-side and not just be fueled by emotion before starting to draw my conclusions. >> and i really am looking forward to the debate next week as well. just to hear the candidates speak, i think there's so much misinformation available today and again, it is so emotionally charged that it makes it difficult for us to discern the facts from the feelings and kaitlan, what are you going to be looking for in the debate well, on a very superficial level, i think that there is a lot of misinformation about joe biden and calling him sleepy joe and saying that he is in capable of filling the role of the presidency, which is being supported by videos that don't really represent his capacity, right? or his ability to lead. and i think looking and hearing and seeing how he presents himself live on that stage next to trump is going to be really important. for a lot of viewers myself included just to really validate and reinforce if he still has the capacity and what his stance is, what is he going to be changing are doing differently? in the next eight years, four years yeah. and burn. and what are you looking for at the debate? what are you gonna be watching for i think debates in the past, but i've viewed often come down to moments of messaging, opportunities to get that sound bite in there. >> i would really like like to hear a sub substantive conversation about what are the concrete strep steps that the administration both current and potential administration plan on pursuing with their four years brandon i mean, minnesota has gone democrat over the years, but now it's a little bit more of a swing-state. do you know why can you put your finger on it well it's a little hard for me to speak to the whole time of graphic of the state. >> i can say what i hear. people close to me say, and that is that a lot of us have grown frustrated with feeling like are political leaders do not represent our values and what we wanted to see as a people i guess it would be easy to say that we've maybe become cynical are just going to connect it from the process. but i think i've maybe a little bit deeper than that. we want to feel like our leadership has our best interests in mind. and many of the people i talked to him, my daily life both work professionally and also in other avenues what i hear from them when the conversation of politics comes up, as they say, you know, i don't really know what's being done with my tax dollars are or i know what's being done with it. i strongly disagree with it. so we feel like there are a lot of very common sense issues that could happen locally and nationally. reforms that can be made to improve the everyday lives of of americans across the spectrum. and we feel like our government is pursuing other things. instead, oftentimes issues i just feel like they're there to divide us well said, i caitlin brennan, a great conversation. very thoughtful comments. >> and you're both going to vote though, right yes. >> are good. all right. that's our accounts. all right. caitlin and brandon, thanks very much. let's continue this conversation now with pollster to frank lance frank, you talked to undecided voters all the time. this is your bailiwick. what's your reaction of what we just heard from those two undecided voters in what are you hearing? just generally, when you talk to folks about what's going on right now with the election it's a tiny fraction of the american electorate that actually matters. >> i don't mean to dismiss from other states, but there really are only three states, right now that are truly in play. pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. and within those states, there's really only three or 4% who are actually undecided. there are a lot of people say, i don't know if i'm gonna vote for joe biden, but i'm definitely not going to vote for donald trump. or they'll say vice versa. and that's not really an undecided voter. they've simply haven't made that commitment yet but in the end affordability is the number one issue right now immigration is the number two issue for young women. it's abortion rights for older voters. it's health care. these issues are significant, but i need to correct one thing that was said the truth is voters aren't voting on those specific policies. they're not looking for 50 page fact-based reports some detailed plan of action. they're going to use based on the personality, based on whether they feel that person is decent, civil kind considerate, a leader, someone who can get results. we vote on attributes, not on issues. and that's what i'm going to be looking for. come next week. >> and do these debates have an impact? i mean, you know, i asked the panelists earlier on in the program, maybe you saw i talked to van jones about this the other day. he was like, if joe biden as a bad debate, that's game over and you talk to other folks and biden, well, there's that's way over the top, but there are some in the democratic party who are a concern that if the president does not have a good debate that could be a problem well mark my words if he doesn't have a good debate, if he has issues getting the words out, if he gets tongue tied, which people do but if it happens to him, the expectations are so are so divine, right now. >> and the fear among democrats is that donald trump wins the fear among republicans as joe biden wins it, this is not vote for someone. it's a vote against someone and if joe biden has a bad debate, if he asked trump would trump if he can handle him, mark my words within 24 hours. you're going to see all sorts of democrats saying, we need a different candidate and not predicting it joe biden has a way of rising to the occasion when he debated paul ryan he was the underdog. biden won that debate when he debated donald trump in 2020. lot of it was trump's over the top criticism of biden did well in those debates. >> so let's not lower expectations on him. >> yeah. but that's where the juror is not on donald trump, but on joe biden. and for trump, what is the biggest risk alienating women might he stepping it by, going after hunter biden, that there's a whole slew of voters out there who may not respond well well, two going after somebody who has been battling addiction and so on i'd say it's we saw this in sessions. >> we didn't 2020 in that first debate when tom with trump would not keep to time, kept going over his allotted limit, kept on attacking biden again and again, interrupting him, bullying him women respond to that undecided women, they hated it donald trump's slipped a few points and i think then add an impact on the final election. if trump goes too far, beats him up too much, women who are important in this election won't like it. and it'll take it out on him. so that's his greatest challenge. >> yeah and frank, the other thing that we're learning and this goes back to something you were saying earlier, is that trump's gonna be campaigning in virginia the day after the debate of this latest fox news poll, a virginia voters shows biden and trump in a dead heat i'm a virginia native. >> i just i'm sorry. i don't believe that poll i don't i do not think joe biden is neck and neck with donald trump in virginia do you see it that way? i i suspect what you said earlier is correct that really there are only three states and it's that old democrat blue wall that has to hold for joe biden and i still see it, but i do know the minnesota is now up for grabs. >> and that's stayed republicans have looked at, but they haven't wanted since 1972 say like iowa, that republicans are supposed to win by eight or ten points trump is up by 18. there are three critical groups here. >> young african american men that tend to vote democrat overwhelmingly, one-third of them are supporting donald trump. the latino vote the hispanic vote which tends to break for the democrats by 15 or 20 points, right? >> now, trump is almost even. and finally, union rank-and-file union members, government unions are pro biden. teachers unions or probate. and by among all the other unions, it's split 50, 50 so pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, have all large segments of those votes. and it's wide donald trump is dead even, or even appointed to ahead. and those three key states fascinating. >> all right, frank lance, we appreciate it as always, glad to see you're doing well, thanks a lot for your time. >> thank you all right. just to have manhattan prosecutors are pushing to keep a modified gag order on donald trump after a wave of threats against the district attorney other than bragg, including one that said, quote, your life is done. >> now, the judge could rule on this next they are unpredictable sleeping giants. every volcano has its own personality at def. we don't understand them. >> they are windows into the heart of our planet ives will be lost violent earth with liev schreiber sunday at nine on cnn from medium rare well done so many ways to save life, ready while it happy. that's 365 by whole foods market i managed care the last room for hundred and 90 bucks. i put the last room a week ago. i talked yesterday some sites panic q into booking their last room instead, trivago 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be heard, be hopeful, be you this is a futurama, go daddy arrow creates a logo website, even social posts in minutes ai, ai like it who wants to come see the get your business online in minutes with godaddy arrow. every day, moore people and more fats are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. >> they're quitting the kibble and kicking the camp and feeding their dogs, dog food. that's actually well food developed with that made from real meat and veggies portioned for your dog? >> and delivered right to your door. >> it's smarter healthier pet food, get 50% off your first box at the farmer's dot.com slash real food good start your day with nature absolutely free text, lob e to three-to-one, three-to-one. today. >> i'm ed lavender and ruidoso, new mexico. this is cnn tonight, manhattan da alvin bragg, laying bare how much of a threat he believes donald trump continues to pose. >> two people involved in the hush money trial. bragg, asking judge juan rishon to extend the gag order in that case because of constant threat saying, quote, the need to protect participants in this criminal proceeding and the integrity of the criminal justice let's just process from defendants attacks remains critically important. bragg isn't covered by the request, but he knows better than anyone about these threats. his office has received more than 500 threatening emails it's right. and phone calls, according to a new filing just today, 61 threats were against the da, his family and employees, the nypd says four had been referred for further investigation. that's how bad it is some of these ominous messages go like this. we will kill you all. you are dead. your life is done and rip but the da suggested that witnesses in the case no longer need to be covered by the gag order, meaning people like michael cohen and stormy daniel's could be potentially vulnerable joining me now is seen legal analyst elliot williams and tiffany right for a law clerk for justice, sonia sotomayor elleithee. this is just outrageous that this is still going on and it almost seems as though there's just nothing that can be done. >> probably you think perhaps not, but what's lost here is that this idea that because the trial is over in. >> some reason, we have to move on. and the judge maintains jurisdiction over the proceedings until the defendant is sentence, and that includes something like a gag order. if in fact the defendant or any party it's continuing to make statements about the judge, the prosecutors, their families, witnesses, whatever else the judge the prosecutors can still push back aguilar and the judge ought to enforce it for the integrity of the proceedings and sentencing being an important part of the process and needing to to play out in a reasonable way ought to be protected. >> typically, your thoughts? >> yeah. i think i agree with all of that. i would also say that there is room in the first amendment for the judge, i think to go a little bit further. i think even are the most stringent scrutiny you're not permitted to engage in speech that interferes with a legal proceeding. you're certainly not allowed to engage in speech that poses a threat to others. and we can see from these messages that has gotten really dangerous. and so i think there's room under the first amendment even go a little bit further while the court's jurisdiction continues. >> and why would the dac that witnesses like stormy daniels and michael cohen can be dropped in the gag order. i mean, one would have to think there's still getting threats and that's where they are. i mean, i think it did the specifics of what's going on here. none of them are going to testify before the court. again for the purposes of sentencing. so you could make an argument, detect them out. this is healy about the court the personnel, the prosecutors, and the people who will be weighing questions as to the defendant's sentencing, that makes i do want to turn to the classified documents case which it's just unbelievable, judge. aileen cannon held a hearing today in trump's classified documents case on the appointment of special counsel, jack smith, trump's attorneys saying he was illegally appointed and acting like a shadow government what do you make of all this? >> i think that legally there's no such thing as a shadow government here. it's just this bag as the deepstate and pizza gate and whatever of the other conspiracy theories and feet even dreams their posts come up with. i will say that with respect to judge cannon, i think part of what we're seeing is i think that being a district court judge is the hardest job in the federal judiciary by far. and so i think some of this is a little bit of inexperience, her trying to find our place, but some of it is a willingness to engage with these sort of ideologically questionable origins of these arguments that come from the us to hear anything out. and that's not, that's not what a judge does. no, no, no. i don't think most judges would have given this particular argument, the time that she gave it today yeah. >> i'm not in the business of pop psychology, which is what you save up for you pop psychology someone, but agreeing with everything about being a trial judge, be exceptionally hard let's add, one factor, and she has a background as an appellate lawyer where lawyers who work on appeals, you know this well, as well spend a lot of time on esoteric rabbit holes i'm trying to test the bounds of the law and so on. and there might be some of that here, but there's also, i think it's fair to say whether it's an ideological or philosophical difference that's guiding some of these decisions that might be some of it now, let's be clear. this judge is not being removed from this case. i think folks have in their heads that somehow jack smith can wave of one on and remove a judge just because she's issued some rulings that are clunkers. that's just simply not how it works. sometimes you get judges that are favorable, the prosecution, sometimes you get judges that are favorable the defendants and that's just the luck of the draw. and it's unfortunate for the prosecutors here, but they really don't have a lot of record yeah. and steve bannon, i mean, we should talk about steve bannon and he's making this last-ditch effort to stay out of jail, asking the supreme court deposits prison sentence while he makes this appeal for his conviction on contempt of congress. >> does he stand a chance here? >> no, absolutely not. i think he's going to jail. he's going to jail. he will meet the same fate that peter navarro met when he tried to say maneuver a while hello, go. >> yeah. what do you think without question, go into jail? it just there's no because and let's just talk about what the law says you can an individual who has been convicted while he is pending his appeal can be kept out if there's a substantial likelihood that he's going to win or is raising a novel legal issue or something like that. the court that has looked at this already said that's simply not the case. it's a straightforward matter. he just doesn't want to go to jail. yeah. that's not a basis for for being kept out, why he wants to go, nobody wants to go to jail. but something's trump. so when you're convinced doesn't want to go to jail, he doesn't do. >> and tiffany, you we mentioned earlier, you worked for justice sonia sotomayor do you have any thoughts on how long this is taking for the immunity case at the supreme court. >> are you what are those thoughts? >> it's a delay that's really, really prior to explain. i mean, we saw when it was the case on the other end of the colorado trump been on the ballot. they decided that hurt it really quickly. i think the delay here is really inexcusable, and i think last time i was here we were talking talking about ethics and, you know what happens when adjusted gets $4 over the course of his career. and these are the sorts of seemingly small decisions, right? the ability of adjustments to say, i am writing something separate and i'm going to delay the process of writing that. until it's advantageous for someone politically, right? these are the sorts of things we have to worry about when we have ethically compromised supreme court that really would be on your mind? yes if you were wearing one of those robes whether your colleague because of free stuff, he's been getting, might be pulling a fast absolutely. which is why ethics are important. we do not want even the appearance of that. and i would not want to have that person as a college yeah. >> and elliott, i mean, we remember a time when we just didn't even think about this stuff when it came to the supreme court i guess in a bygone era, i suppose there were questions and things that came up from time to time, but yes, that's true. i mean, i think the court what one of what this is all exposing. i think we're moving from talking about the timing of the case to the ethics questions around the supreme court. the court is left to police itself and they, their rules just sort of say, trust us in 2023, they put out ethical rules does that really don't have any teeth and so if in fact the justice is misbehaving, it's really up to the nine of them in this private room that nobody's ever gets to be in to decide who gets to sit off cases and so on. so stop us. yeah. is there a message that no one's going to yeah it's going to be such a big decision when this come down. maybe we've been making some predictions. maybe it'll be next thursday on the day of the debate, wouldn't that be a a curveball? tiffany elliot, thanks a lot. really appreciate it, guys. thanks so much donald trump and embracing the new louisiana law requiring the ten commandments. have you heard about this? that is i've been? said, we make it mandatory to post the ten commandments in public schools should it's super charged, the religious right? could it do that? someone who's been on the inside of the christian 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and headache, don't receive botox if there's a skin infection, tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these main please, the risk of serious side effects, chronic migraine, we still keep you from being there why wait. talk to your doctor about botox and get in the picture learn how ad they can help you save april 4 in america, thursday, july 4th, they 70s on cnn kill bow shall not commit adultery. >> thou shalt not steal. thou shall not bear false witness and vow shall not covet nine neighbor's house not bad jimmy kimmel poking a little fun, a donald trump for his support for a new law and louisiana that requires the ten commandments to be posted in every public classroom in the state. trump defending the law on truth, social posting, quote, this may be in fact the first major step in the revival of religion, he says, which is desperately needed in our country louisiana republican governor jeff landry agrees, pushing back on criticism of the law today i didn't know that it was still vile vile until obaida ten commandments, i think that that speaks volumes about how eroded this country has become. >> i mean, look, this country was was founded on judeo christian principles. and every time we steer away from that, we have problems in our nation the aclu was blocking are suing to block the law. >> the supreme court has stopped kentucky. we should know from implementing a similar law twice, but more states could follow in louisiana's footsteps tonight it second most powerful politician in texas is vowing to push for a bill requiring the ten commandments in schools there the issue has long been a rallying cry for people on the religious right? and my next guest should know bradley own nietzsche served as an evangelical minister for seven years and consider himself a christian nationalist before leaving the jurors to study religion and extremism, he's the author of preparing for war. the extremist history of white christian nationalism and what comes next bradley, an ominous title, but a very important subject. you've been inside the christian nationalist movement what do you make of this new ten commandments law? >> well, this is not something new and it's not happening by accident. a call to restore the country to its covenant with god has been a rallying cry among christian nationalists going back to the 1960s when they believed the country was stolen from them this is why so many christian nationalists have found a home in the maga movement because that a saltzer politics that play in donald trump's campaigns fits nicely into a vision of the country that says, we once were great, but we departed from god's vision and now we're lost and bradley, saying washington, missouri republican senator josh hawley spoke at the faith and freedom coalition conference and openly called for more religion and government and schools. >> let's listen we don't need less christian influence in our society. >> we don't need less christian witness in our society. we need more. and every part of government in every part of society. you don't have to do we ought to take the pride flag out of schools and put the bible back in is that just rhetoric? it's not just rhetoric. >> and we know that and i think the ten commandments bill is a really good example. this didn't happen by accident. this is a part of a coordinated effort by christian nationalists organizations that want to impose christianity on all of american society. the ten commandments vote came from a group called project blitz, which represents about 40 different christian nationalist organizations. and they work with state legislatures every year they pre-write bills in the hope that there'll be sponsored and passed in well, now, they only usually have a few victory is per year but when they have a signature, one like the ten commandments bill here and louisiana it's a it it makes them think all that hard work is worth it. it also signals something that i think we have to be aware of when it comes to senator hawley's comments and others who are talking about this across the country they're willing to play the longabaugh they're willing to keep putting forth bills having most of them not pass but warming up our society, continuing to warm the waters of american culture to the point that we will eventually get to a boiling and have a fully fledged christian national society where one view of faith is imposed on the rest of us well, this ten commandments leinz, we thinking, i isn't this kind of a slam dunk supreme court case? >> if and when it gets to the supreme court the establishment clause of the constitution says you cannot have you have to have a separation between church and state. i mean, that's just sort of like high school government 101 do you not see it that way? is it possible as the supreme court trends in a harder, more conservative, right-wing direction that perhaps that may be overlooked. i can't imagine that happening, but what do you think? >> a. law like this was struck down in 1980 81 would expect it to be this one to be struck down. now, i'll say two things here though. we have a court that is full of surprises over the last month. i think we've seen that every time we've heard something new about justice alito and the flags flying over his house not. to mention some of the rulings that have come down over the last couple of terms. so it's a gambit at the court right now, and i don't think anyone knows exactly what will happen but i think there's a larger lesson here too, which is to say if this is struck down, it just gives senator hawley and governor landry and others around the country more fuel to the fire to play the victim to say, well, look at this, look at those who would throw got out continually from our society. those are the ones who hate america. those are the ones who are against american flourishing. i can't believe that they would stand up here and say that gaza no longer allowed in the united states it's a way to play the victim to mobilize a base, and to divide the country in an us versus them kind of way all right, bradley, on ishi. >> thanks very much for your time a lot of great thoughts or love to have you come back and talk about this further, really important topic. appreciate the time tonight thanks jim, appreciate. >> in the meantime, new tonight, nasa announcing another delay for the return of two astronauts aboard the international space station. the crew reach the iss via a boeing starliner or earlier this month, but there were turned has been delayed due to issues with that spacecraft. nasa had originally said they'd returned no later than june 26 but now nasa is putting that off with oh, scheduled return date plan. here's cnn's gary tuchman the, launch from florida was picture perfect style the starliner spacecraft manufactured by boeing a test flight, on its way to the beginning international space station successfully docking with the iss just over two weeks ago. >> and the two astronauts on board the starliner, which wilmore and sunny williams. >> so here we are in the front of the international space station where our spacecraft docked but even before they dock with the space station, and as they gave this tour of the starliner, they knew the trip wasn't going to be exactly putin. >> let's go forward into starliner where there was a little bit of actually the other day, the action involved spacecraft issues specifically helium leaks and thruster problems you have to lay the two astronauts return to earth. >> bottom line is the helium leaks are about pretty small. nasa save as they can tolerate about 100 times. what's currently leaking had five thrusters fail on the way to the station four of them have been reactivated. one remains disabled shouldn't keep them from coming home safely. >> but it has kept them from returning as scheduled nasa declaring week. >> we're taking a little bit of extra time to work through what we've seen and make sure we have all the plans in place to bring the crew home in an a nominal situation for the admission. so we're just taking a little more extra time to review all the data. and also learn much as we can while we have the service module in orbit despite the problems, the atmosphere on board with all the space station astronauts has been nothing less than jovial congratulations to all the nasa and boeing teams on this incredible milestone, butch and sunny, the iss flight control team is thrilled to see you back on iss. this is boeing's first docking with the iss after numerous issues and cost overruns which have led to corporate embarrassment and uncertainty. and now there is more of that as engineers on the ground are working to learn more about these problems that have plagued the journey despite the issues that surround the starliner, the two astronauts appear to be taking it all in stride i'm not sure we could have gotten a better welcome we had music we had pojo. matt was dancing it was great. gary tuckman, cnn, new york thanks to gary and thanks for the team here for taking care of me all week. >> laura's back next week. thanks very much for watching ac30 60 is next the believes that is meant to unite the round you may be he's coming house of the dragon streaming exclusively on max what the biggest companies the liver is an exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible is unmatched connectivity and biji solutions from t-mobile for business, t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees powers tractor supplies, stores nationwide with reliable by chief is this your name and partners with pga of america on been changing in eviction this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business one second, you feel safe we saw on their way. >> well he's still, do from roger to we there yet so many ways to save life ready while it happy but 365 by whole foods market let the blocked the 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