231231 this is cnn. the world's news the next verdict will come on election day. i'm michael smerconish and philadelphia donald trump is the first former us president to be a convicted felon. but will the verdict help or hurt is 2024 campaign non-white voters may have the answer. here's a part of what some of the callers and the popular morning radio program, the breakfast club had to say after the verdict faster, like trump's 30 trust the system at all. i feel their railroad and body system and you see that when she walked in the courtroom to be guilty, you gonna be guilty? how can anybody blackboard provide it trump? were you i'd rather have president wright, who's going to be honest and show me a whole, then have a president who's going to allow me to try to get me up, to get my vote breakfast club, host charlemagne, the god is going to join me in just a moment in the most recent poll of battleground states, which included third-party candidates, biden had only 49% support of registered black voters. >> and in a two-way race, biden had 63% support with trump getting 23 if these numbers were to hold up by election day, trump would have the highest level of black support for any republican presidential candidate in the last 60 years from a national scale, a pew research poll finds trump pulling 18% of support from black voters, which is a dramatic shift from 2020 when trump received only 8% of the black vote against biden, that itself was a slight uptick from the 6% he received against hillary clinton in 2016 similarly, a washington post ipsos poll found a 12% drop in the number of black americans saying they are certain they will vote in this election cycle, the drop in voter turnout is even sharper among young black voters who mostly disapprove of biden's job performance to mobilize support among this critical voting block biden and vice president kamala harris held a rally in philadelphia this week where do would happen if black americans a storm the capitol i don't think he'd be talking about pardons and guy wanted to tear gas, you as you peacefully protest at george floyd's murder. >> the same guy who still cause the central park five guilty, even though they're exonerated he's that landlord or denies housing application because of the color your skin he's, that guy, won't say black lives matter and evokes nail nazi third reich terms my next guest has interviewed both vice president kamala harris and president joe biden. biden back in 2020 when he gave this controversial answer if you have a problem figuring out whether you're familiar trump and you a black, they don't have nothing to do with trump. it has to do with the fact i want something for my community joining me now is charlemagne the god the host of the popular iheart radio breakfast program called the breakfast club, which reaches nearly 6 million listeners a month. >> as you can see, he's also the author of a new book called get honest or die lying why small talk sucks charlemagne, i love the book we're going to talk about the book you write. small talk is killing us as a society. so there won't be small talk here when i recently wondered aloud if trump has the sympathy of some black men, because historically, many of them have had their own legal entanglements. somebody close to me said, you can't say that as a white guy, your stereotyping. maybe you'll be perceived as racist. but some of your callers are saying the same thing. do you agree that's what accounts for some of his black support? >> i don't agree you know, black people are not monolithic, so i can't speak for all black people were personally, i don't agree. donald trump is not a political prisoner. he's not someone who died unjustly at the hands of the police. he is a privilege former president who broke the law and he got held accountable for it. and that's the way it should be. shame. you can still run for president after being convicted on all those counts. but clearly america has zero protection for people like, like, like a donald trump okay, in the book, you say, if you're black, it's almost assured that you've suffered some sort of trauma in your life. the justice system is certainly the source of a lot of that trauma, but you're not seeing any parallel between the decline of support for biden among people of color the rise of support for trump and trump's legal issues no, not at all. >> i don't. >> what then what accounts for it i mean, i don't even know if there's really arrive. >> i think some of those poles might be a little bit overstated. i mean, we're going to have to see come november, but when i look at those numbers and i see people say 22% of all black people are going to vote for it for donald trump. i don't, i don't necessarily believe that. i don't know if i don't know if i don't know if i believe those those numbers to be true, i think there might be a slight uptake, but i can't see 22% of black people were going out to vote for donald trump come november. i could be wrong, but i don't personally see it in the book. >> you talk about your fondness. we have this in common. we both love the movie bull worth, warren beatty, full worth, and warren beatty doesn't feel obligated to do safe speak. i found interesting that you talk about private conversations with secretary clinton, private conversations with kamala harris, and then like when the mic gets hot, it's a different persona. they are not bull worth trump is bulwark. talk to me about that? >> yeah. i think that's one thing that donald trump de that i believe is a good thing is, you know, he, he killed the language of politics like the language of politics is dead. so you know, if you had these politicians who actually sat down with every day working class people and had conversations with everyday working class people. i mean, that's what i get to do every morning on the breakfast club. that's what i get to do when i'm out doing community work, whether it's in south carolina where this new journey, whether it's in new york, when you get to actually talk to people and see what's on people's minds. when you get in front of those microphones, you'll always have that in your head. you'll always have in your mind what you know people are actually saying when you're sitting around with your team and your team is coming into with all these notes you're like, well, i don't you can personally say, i don't know if that's how people fail because i saw a young woman and floyd and i'm speaking on experience, i just saw a young woman in florida. her name was kim when i was at coral gables for a book signing, she came up to me and she said to me that biden is going to have to earn our vote this year because she'd have said that biden didn't fight hard enough for voting rights. and that biden didn't fight hard enough to increase the federal minimum, minimum wage. these are words that are coming out of their mouth. when i when i was speaking back in january, somebody asked me at fox actually if the border was going to be an issue in november, the reason i said yes. but because of the conversations that i have been having with activists that chicago with people in neighborhoods in new york. so my rhetoric comes from the people, and that's what happened in the movie bulwark. his rhetoric was coming from the people these elected officials need to sit down and have more conversations with individuals. i said amino going around and they're having these rallies where they're talking to people. they should change those. the town hall, town halls and actually talk with people actually think they should listen more than that, more than they're talking right now charlemagne, one of the highest compliments paid to me was by bill maher when he said to me, you don't have a team and as i was reading your book, i was thinking, charlemagne, you don't have a team either. >> and it came to light in that view interview where it's like they were putting pressure on you. it was almost expected of you. hey, wait a minute, maybe because you're a person of color, maybe because of the interview that you had done previously with then vice president by the like, why aren't you on board? ford end endorsing him? address that issue yeah, because i'm all about my interests. >> you know, and i'm all about, you know, i'm all about voting my interests and i'm all about an issue i'm issues person. i'm not a individual person. i'm not a party person and i think that media we have to find a way to let folks know you know, what, what trump in his regime of planning, but also, thank you know, sitting on air all day and sitting on social media. are they talking about how bad trump is isn't effective, you know, because the people who are supporting trump don't care about any of that. they don't care that he was convicted. they don't care that, you know, he may have used the n-word. they don't care about any of his racism, sexism. they are all in on him and nothing is gonna change that. so the media, especially on the left, she talked more about the good things, the biden administration has done when people ask questions and you know, if they're being fair on the right, they should do that as well. they shouldn't sit around and talk about how, how bad of biden is she talking about? things that biden has done well? and as you talk about the things that trump isn't doing well that way, it would look like everybody is being fair and balanced. but right now, you could just turn on anyone network and know what, what, what team they going to be representing and that i don't that's good good for the american people. >> totally agree. my poll question today on my website at smerconish.com asks if this verdict is going to change the outcome of the election. what's your short answer to that? >> yeah, it definitely will have an impact because i believe 2024 and will come down to the battle of the basis. so those die-hard conservative and liberal voters who come out and vote no matter what. so it was really which candidate can energize. they're based in most and the situation like this, you know, it does trump's base you know, just yesterday in new york city. i'm going down fifth avenue. they were in the streets protesting, waving f. biden flags and stopping traffic. his base reacts to things. the way that the left left, the left should like, you know, when you see roe v. wade getting overturned or voting rights being gutted, were no civil liberties are being taken away. folks should be in the streets protests in like that. so i see trump's base more energized right now. and i do know biden's base. i see biden's base upset with him over a number of things and i think in november it's going to come down to a battle of those basis. so yes, i do take a situation like this gives them something something to fight for. >> charlemagne, my favorite paragraph from the book which i told you, i read and really enjoyed. i wouldn't say it if i didn't mean it. here it is. we'd meet at an appointed time and then just plot something to get into. let's ride our bikes to the bp gas station in conifer hall and get some honey buns. someone might say or may my daddy told me there are some old tombstones in the woods over by old whites veiled road. >> you want kids to get outside, speak to that in 30 seconds. yeah i'm talking to a time long, long, long ago before social media and before cell phones when you actually had to go outside, especially if you were in a rural area like i was in moscow and south carolina and you know, i believe we all have to get reconnected with nature if you a few or person like me who advocate a mental health and emotional well-being man go outside and breathe some fresh air. it take your shoes off, take your socks off, go do some grounding. you know, go go put your hands on a tree go hug a tree, which forehead against the tree, say a prayer to the sky. go, go in some water, look up to this time, pray to god. that's how you get reconnected and you stay grounded in this crazy as society and trust me we all needed i agree. >> thank you, charlemagne. appreciate it thank you, michael what to know what you're thinking? go to my website. it's were kaddish.com answer the poll question. will trump's conviction change the outcome of the election? what are your thoughts? hit me up on social media. i'll read some throughout the course of the program, catherine from the world of x, what do we have? because black americans are tired of being pander to for nothing, but their vote as biden brings in millions of illegals who are showered with food shelter, and place and take us butterscotch says, so, look, charles charlemagne disagreed. he was not accepting the thesis that i offered trump's numbers have benefited from the indictments, whether they benefit from the conviction remains to be seen, going to talk about that in just a moment. but at the same time, his numbers have benefited in particular, among voters of color, is it because of the legal entanglements it would seem to me that there is a connection between the two, but i'm a suburban white guy, so i'm surrendering the floor for to charlemagne still to come. why is elon musk? oh, this is amazing. why is elon musk tweeting out the latest opinion piece by our friend and my good guest elie honig. here's a hint. it's called prosecutors got trump but they can't they contorted the law and eleia's here to discuss also will the fact that donald trump is now a convicted felon be a game changer for the election. might it have no impact at all? who better to ask than these two y's political legends, james carville and david axelrod are next new cnn original series starts tomorrow, would nine on cnn at fisher investments, we may look like other money managers, but we're different. and how so? we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interests so we don't sell any commission-based products then how do you make money? we have a simple management fee structured, so we do better when our clients get better, your clients really come first, then. >> yes, we make them a top priority by getting know their finances, family, health, lifestyle, and more well, maybe we are different at fisher investments were clearly different let's say you want to help your small business thrive. constant contact has helped millions get the word out with marketing tools to help you create emails, social posts, and more grow your business with constant contact start today. >> the constant contact contact.com, new center minutes pause supplements help unpause life when symptoms posit with the multivitamin plus hot flash support daily z for quality sleep and an extra for focusing clarity, centrum powered by clinically studied ingredients. >> your utilize the hot pro massaging bone, easy to grip the massage and the power of two max strength pain relievers i just works fast he makes it less new. i see how pro massaging boehm if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease, put it in check with rent folk. >> a once-daily pill when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief and reduced fatigue with brin vote. >> when flares kept trying to slow me down, i got last thinks they're right three remission with red book. >> check when my doctor saw damage, brynn vote helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining, check for both uc and crohn's rapid symptom relief lasting steroid free remission, and visibly reduced damage check check and check. we're invoking lower your ability to fight infections including tb series factions and blood clots, some fatal cancers including lymphoma in skin, heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant what you uc and crohn's and check and keep them there with brynn asked her gastroenteritis? 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>> although the verdict brought joy to those who oppose him immediately energized is base in the first 24 hours his campaign says that they raised nearly $53 million a third of that from new donors owners on the other hand, we now have the first post verdict poll. it was conducted by reuters and the two days after trump's conviction, it says that 10% of republican registered voters say they are now less likely to vote for trump 35% said they were more likely to support trump 56% said it would have no impact. in erase that has long been within the margin of error, that 10% of doubt looms large, yet these poles of likely support actually don't show many trump voters switching their vote to biden as 538. nathaniel wreckage recently put it on average, trump loses six points of support after a conviction is taken into account, but biden gains only one point someone else or undecided gains five points joining me now, the rage and cage and james carville, the legendary democratic strategist, who ran bill clinton's night 18, 92 winning and pain. he's now the co-host of the podcast politics, war room. and cnn senior political commentator david axelrod, former senior adviser to president obama, host of cnn's x-files podcast. two of the smartest observers in the nation a comes before c, so acts. i asked you that yes, i don't think anybody can predict how it plays out, but when do you think we will know the impact? when does the dust settle so that we can make conclusions? >> i, don't i don't know if it ever completely settles michael and one thing was, as i was listening to you, one thing that struck me as we're sitting here in june there is an eternity between now and november and things are going to happen that will shape this race beyond this so i really don't know what material impact it's going to have i think one of the interesting questions is what impact does it have on trump? because if trump becomes more self obsessed more focused on his own grievances in troubles and less on addressing the problems of people. it's an opportunity for the president to do the opposite, to talk about the things that are actually concerning to people in their lives. what he's doing about what trump would do about it and create the kind of contrast on tangible real life issues that i think will make the difference for him james, to that point, i thought that trump was meandering an unfocused yesterday and had a golden opportunity in the aftermath of that verdict to deliver a message. >> what did you make of how he handled it? what do you think is going to be the impact? >> what i think is right after someone dies acts, everybody come joe void, brynn, cash, rows and shifts with urine some sits share. but they have weighed four or five days. everybody can suppress it in everybody goes home and your parent is still get all right. and i think truck right now is a lot of who hide and the basis route and him, right. he's he's disjointed he's all emotional camp. i don't think you guys slept 20 hours in the last 20 days. but i think affected it's dealt with at all will be felt later wrong because we've got all kinds of that's coming up. chanson report. the sentencing the appeal of all the things that happened just in a normal fall of a criminal case. >> i profoundly a agree with david that this is a real opportunity for president biden to start talking about some of the things that he wants to do in a second term and try to think, frame selection around the will take can do to help people, young people, other people, right? >> out of country he's got a golden opportunity here and he's going to have the whole terrain to himself or truck despite as needs really got to take advantage of it david axelrod, he's also going to be delivering president biden, whatever he has to say going forward in the context now of the hundred for biden trial, which is about to get underway what do you think president biden will do well, look you mean in terms of addressing the trump case or case, i don't think he'll do i think he was pretty muted in his response and i think that was appropriate. he addressed it more as president than candidate about what it meant for the country. and then he moved on as james and i are both saying, i hope what he says is the message should be i'm fighting for you and your future. and this is how, this is what he would do. i'm fighting for you. he's fighting for himself that's what how he should frame this up. i don't think he should dwell on this 11 point on sentencing michael sentencing is scheduled for july 11 one of the reasons that trump is raising all this money as he's raised the specter of being thrown in jail and being a political prisoner and so on my desk and i don't know, i'm not a lawyer. you are i think it's highly unlikely that he's going to get sentenced to prison in this conviction. and if the sentence is something less than that, if it's probation, for example i suspect that his argument we'll lose some of its efficacy even with the base kinda take some of the wind out of the thing. so as we both said i just don't know how this is all going to play out, but i do think the thing to watch his how the two candidates deal with it does trump continued a full minute in the kind of irrational way he did yesterday. he won't be a very good candidate if that's the case. and we'll president biden sees it as an opportunity to strike a contrast between a guy who's fighting for people and a guy who's fighting for himself james, on your watch in the 90s, i think one of the takeaways was americans are not gonna vote based on sex is the perception of this trump case that its business records or that it was sex. >> and does it matter well, i think it certainly legal. >> it was about the business records, trucks stupidly said it an opening arguments that he never had sector stormy daniels and some of the commentary on yes it's just downright off one person talked about the $35 donation that the judge made. the democrats without telling his readers that said, judge asked a supervisory court if he should proceed and they said, yes. so there's a lot of stuff to be flushed out. here. >> and i need a my cup a policy radio show fairly frequently and i believe i'm correct. >> your formal prosecutor and you know, probably know more by juries, than david not put together times a factor of ten. my experience has always been that actress juries, i think that diligence, i think there hey, attention enough, they can vast majority of the times they get it right and they smarter than these high-end legal commentators, deaf bone personal view you're good for my demographics. please keep listening. my work was on the civil side acts. let me ask you this. the other guy there famously said, it's the economy stupid. in the, is the economy going to trump? i'm going to ask you and then i'm going to ask carville in the end is all of this secondary to the price of eggs and milk i kinda think, yes, because i think the people who are hanging out there, we're going to decide this election are people who are concerned about their costs. >> i keep saying, you know, i feel deeply about these democracy issues in the rule of law. but if you're sitting around the kitchen table talking about democracy and the rule of law. chances are you're not worried about the cost of the food on your table. if you're worried about the cost of food on your table, or your rent or gas prices are the mortgage more likely you're fretting about that and i think the candidate who persuades people that they are working diligently on their behalf on those issues. and at that fight is ongoing. is the one who has the best chance to win over those voters who are hanging out james, what are you thinking well, i'm taking again for the president has a golden opportunity to almost got to hold plane think the can shelter, talk about what he wants to do and we're not doing very well with young voters because you told us are not particularly comfortable in this economy in nazi intelligence bit ever buy a house or or educate their children? i think the present should come out for $15 increase in minimum wage immediately i think he should say he's going to raise taxes on people making over foreign thousand dollars and start a first-time homebuyers relief fund. i think he's got to connect with people and understands that this communist working for some people, but not working very well for others. make the people i just working for pay a little bit more and try to help the people is not working for that. and i think as an opportunity to do all of this because trump is sad, we say, pin down the foreseeable future you can make it up, right gentlemen. i mean, none. >> if we if we wrote the screenplay hollywood would be laughing at us. >> i appreciate both of you. thank you so much for being here at james carville. david axelrod thanks. >> thank you, mom what are you saying via social media, catherine, from the world of x, who better to have than those two, by the way, right? >> who better to have them. the insight of those two, who have been there and done it. i think that's what i would most want today we're cash the conviction has strengthened the conviction of the base and independence seemed to be bothered as well. you're setting me up beautifully for the next conversation on this program because elie honig is about to join me and i just i have the utmost respect for elie. i've watched all of his commentary here on cnn, he's the breakout star of all of the coverage of this trial. why? because he calls balls and strikes and everybody likes to try and read into his motivation. i don't think he has any motivation other than to just tell it like it is. but to your point, i think that the anc st. over the outcome is shared by more than just the base. i feel some of it and i'll explain that when ellie is my guest, i want to remind you, go to my website. it's where kaddish.com, will trump's conviction change the outcome? of the election go vote, sign up for the free daily newsletter while you are there up ahead, judge juan merchan presided over the first ever criminal trial of a former us president. but now he faces what might be an even trickier task deciding what punishment to impose as i was just discussing with my guests four days before the gop can pension eleia's here. his latest piece is setting twitter on fire. prosecutors got trump, but they contorted the law. sign up for the freedom daily newsletter. you'll get great cartoons including scott status. yeah, he draws for the dallas morning news, the chicago tribune, and smerconish does that not sum up this week russia? 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does that 94% of smart sleepers report better sleep, sleep that he percent on the speak numbers conditions monday plus your $79 at cardia.com or amazon this before in the stanley cup. >> fairclough life is on the line right now to now to distractions goodness serious still feel sky high trump's guilty verdict in the hush money case may have answered one big question, but it raises new ones on sentencing day july 11, judge juan merchan sentence him daddy jail time. >> and does trump have a shot at an appeal? part of the latter question may rest on this document which we didn't get to see until after the case wrapped up. it's the verdict slip that which was filled out by the foreperson. this is the result of the trial here to discuss his cnn senior legal analyst and former federal property prosecutor, elie honig. he wrote this piece for new york magazine's intelligence are titled prosecutors got trump, but they contorted the law. it has now set the twitter verse on fire. elie. i want to go into the weeds here from the jury instructions. i'm gonna put this up on the screen. i'll read it aloud in determining whether the defendant and then conspired to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means, you may consider the following violations of the federal election campaign act, otherwise known as feca, the falsification of other business records or violation of tax laws. now, i'm putting on the screen one port portion of the verdict slips so that people can see it was a binary choice on each of the 34 counts. and here's my question based on the verdict slip, trump can truthfully say he doesn't know for what he was convicted. do you agree? >> i do agree. and i think we all have that issue now, that verdict slip that we just looked at is deceptively simple in its layout. it's a binary choice, guilty, not guilty. yes. no. >> but in fact, the charges here are much more complicated. so think of them like if it was a triple decker sandwich, there's three actual layers to each of the 34 four counts here. the first layer is a new york state violation of falsifying business records, which is a misdemeanor. the middle layer is while they falsified business records in order to violate new york election law, which says you can't try to influence an election by unlawful means. well, what are those unlawful means that brings us to the third layer, which is the sort of three-part menu that you just showed us. and the judge told the jury the prosecutor's argument was, well, it could be one, both or all three, or maybe some combination of federal campaign finance law, falsifying other business records, which doesn't really make much sense to me or some sort of tax violations so we don't know which of those three options the jury voted to convict on, and the judge said, you don't have to be unanimous as long as you agree it was one of those three, so there's a lot of uncertainty in what the jury actually decided okay. in the last couple of days privately by text, i was saying to you, hey, ellie, have you seen the verdict slip? can you flip it to me? because i wanted to see what level of detail they were going to have to provide. you're the expert when it comes to matters of prosecution. do you agree with me that this is a legitimate appellant issue for trump? he can put it in the way that i put it. i don't know for what i was convicted there are two appellate issues here. >> the first one is what you said look, a basic fundamental principle of our criminal law process, of our constitution is a defendant is entitled to notice in advance of trial with specificity what he's being charged as for what he's being tried for that's why we have indictments. now the indictment in this case does not specify what the underlying quote-unquote unlawful means are. and in fact, i found this to be shocking. frankly, the judge did not make the prosecutors commit to any of those unlawful means until we were just it's about into closing arguments. so that's gonna be appeal issue number one. i was never put on specific notice of what i was being tried for appeal argument number two is going to be this one of the bases for conviction here. one of the unlawful means is a violation of the federal election and campaign act do you know how many times michael we have ever had in the history of this country, a state or county level prosecutor charge either as a charge or a sub-component or an unlawful means or any part of a char a violation of federal campaign law. the answer was zero. probably never one. so this is the first, right, exactly. this is the first time in american history that's been done. and the appeals argument will be when you have a federal regulatory structure around elections, that's for the feds to violate. that's not first state or in this case, county. alvin bragg is a county level prosecutor sure. to enforce because that would lead to mayhem and that would create problems for federalism, for the notion that federal law has to no pun intended trump state and local law james carville, the region cage and was just here we were talking about the political aspects. >> david axelrod as well, but james made reference to judge merge, sean judge merchan has got a big decision coming, right? whether trump is going to go to jail, speak to that issue so number one, guarding mr. carlos comments, i respect mr. cavell enormously. >> he i think was referencing my piece where i've talked about the fact that judge merchan made a very small all $35 donation back in 2022, a organization that part of its goal he earmarked the funds were to resist donald trump in his radical right-wing legacy ics, that, that is a major problem. mr. carlos, right? there was an ethics committee that looked at this and said, you don't have to recuse now, but there's a difference between must and should. and i would pose this question to mr. carville or anyone along these lines, would you be okay if in another one of the trump cases, if the judge had donated a very small amount of money, $35 to maga 2020 trump forever resist joe biden. i don't think so. i don't think james carville would be okay with that. and i think that's the principle here now, as to your question, judge merchan is going to have a very difficult decision. the sentence is entirely up to him and michael. if we look at a universe of falsification cases in new york state roughly 70 to 90% of those cases result in non-prison sentences. so you've been talking about probation and restitution and finds and that kind of thing. but prosecutors may well make an argument and i see it that donald trump is not the classic falsification patient case, that there are aspects of this case that make it a much more serious case. the fact that he's violated the contempt order, the fact that his conduct, according to prosecutors and the jury impact in an election. so i think this is gonna be a razor's edge 50, 50 call about whether judge merchan sentences them to some prison time okay. >> i'm shocked to hear you say that i thought you were going to toe the line and say it's highly unlikely but again, you surprise and i appreciate that i loved the independent thinking. hey, put, put the social media up while ellie is still here, i may need to lean on him for the response. what do we have the form is just the jury vote. >> it does not have to have all the details and testimony. those are in the court records and transcript like it or not. that is the law mike, i totally disagree. it puts trump at a disadvantage. trump does not know what's at the federal election campaign act. was it additional manipulation of business records? was it some amorphous tax violation? elie, what's your thought? >> yeah, i agree with you, michael, i think the color here are the viewer makes a good point, which is the jury form e, the jury doesn't write an essay. here are the reasons for her verdict. you just check a box, but i've done cases like this where there they're subcomponents to the charge i used to do racketeering cases and you have to prove a certain number of racketeering act and we he would ask the jury in the forum which of these racketeering act do you find proven unanimously or not a so that the jury will be able to tell us specifically how they made their finding b. so the defendant has noticed and see silver covered on appeal. and now this is going to be an appeal issue that frankly, prosecutors but have avoided if they just said, hey, jury, tell us the specific one of those three menu options which you chose well said elie honig. >> thank you. appreciate you thanks, michael. >> all right. >> stone account more of your best and worst social media comments, don't forget vote. i can't wait to see the outcome. i have no idea what you're saying on this. will trump's conviction change the outcome of the election? 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nope cnn doesn't recognize that, but if i cite the pole, it means that it has passed an internal review here. >> and the polls are telling the same story. so they'd all have to be wrong. now, does that mean that's the way it's going to add? and no poles are a snapshot in time. and what do they tell us up until the verdict that trump was leading in the national surveys kind of meaningless but interesting. and most importantly, in the battleground states. and among those groups, integral to biden's past election we're voters of color. and his numbers are way the heck down with them. so that's what the numbers tell us follow the data. here's another one real quick. what do we got? >> you failed to mention that both the defense and prosecution agreed to the jury instructions. >> stop trying to defend trump also mentioned the judge's alleged bias. this is that did i mention the judge's alleged bias? you did not hear that come from me. instead, i'm investing the time to analyse allies, the verdict slip. and in looking at the verdict slip, i say to myself, okay. so in the end for what was he convicted, now, you can say, oh, for falsifying business records, except that is a misdemeanor for which the statute of limitations has run so it's gotta be something else. what's the something else? oh, it can be one of three different things. okay i'd like to know which of the three it was. it like take trump's name out of the equation and put in anybody else's name, how about a relative of yours? don't you think it individual who has been convicted and now faces jail time as a writer to know, well, what was the offense and this whole business of a lack of unanimity. what if they were 444 on the three different things that it could have been? no. doesn't doesn't sit well with me do i have time for one more? i think that i do. what do we got? >> no. but what will impact of the election is trump's vp choice never in modern history will a vp pick impact an election so troy is answering the poll question and saying what really matters now is who will be the vp for each of them every four years, we like hype the vp selection. i agree with you this year. i think it does matter still to come. the final results of today's poll question, it's where cottage.com will trump's conviction change the outcome either way for the election? 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can we design, go inside the store? >> the premier? >> of london earth with liev schreiber tomorrow would nine on cnn okay there's? the results so far, 32,495 will trump's conviction change the outcome of the election 56% say yes, i presume that the 56% are saying, yes, it's going to change the outcome of the election and it's going to cause trump to lose where perhaps otherwise trump could have one. >> i'm reading into it. i imagine that's what you think. and it occurred to me as i was speaking to david axelrod and james carville and elie honig on this issue, by the way, what a car pool charlemagne, the god acts, the region cajun and honig. it's like a buddy movie waiting to happen but i was thinking, what if the sentence is jail? four days before the republican national convention, then i'd be in the category of saying yes, it will change the outcome of the election. it cause donald trump to get elected. i don't think it's just the base that is fired up about this. i think there are a lot of people out there who don't like them and say, you know what? 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