Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240703

And good evening, thanks for joining us. We were expecting fireworks in the first day of Cross Examination on Michael Cohen, the onetime fixture for the former starts now prompted a sidebar with the judge who asked blanche, blanche why are you making this about yourself the attorneys said he that he wasnt that he had a quote right to show the witnesses bias. The judge sustained the objection. The trial got back underway, but it was wasnt long before blanche returned to cohens Propensity Data Mouth off on social media, blanche asked cohen, quote, and on that same tiktok. So again, on april 23, you referred to President Trump when he left the courtroom, you said that he goes right into that little cage which is where he belongs in. Im going to clean up the language here effing caves like an animal. Do you recall saying that blanche asked in respond in quote, i recall saying that thats sort of set the tone for the rest of the hearing where the former president s attorney, a former federal prosecutor, tried to undermine cohens credibility, as well as his recall of conversations with the former president wasnt the only drama either its allies of the former president , including House Speaker mike johnson and several others who appeared to be in town for a vip p audition, showed their numbers. Then for the second day in a row, said what a former president under gag order cannot joining us tonight. Former us attorney michael moore, former federal prosecutors, jeffrey tube in and timme agangawilliams also seen an anchor, kaitlan collins, who was in the courtroom this morning. Former federal prosecutor elie honig and correspondent kara scannell, who he was also in the courtroom. Kara, what was your impression and the cross seem to be the last thing that we all heard. So it kinda six our memory, but this morning, what the prosecution also did was use cohen to wrap up their case going over month by month, all of the elements of the crime, the alleged crime, the invoice, is that coincide were falsified. The check stub that he said the descriptions were falsified, and then the check sign, but majority of them signed by donald trump, that he said was all false, all because the retainer then the prosecution tried to get ahead of all of cohens past legal runins and everything. But then the cross i mean, that was we were expecting some fireworks here for what so me was cohen remained compose the whole time, even as he was parsing words with todd blanche over whether he had lied to the Special Counsel during the investment of russia russia. Russia investigation, or whether he had given an inaccurate statement they were going back and forth cohen even killed the whole time and then relented and telling blanche, okay five but he didnt he didnt break us cool and he didnt he didnt give in on some of these other things. But the real theme of the day was blanche trying to establish by throwing cohens words back him from his podcasts, from his book, that he hates trump, and that hizon, a Revenge Shore and hes trying to make money doing it. Come and acknowledging made 4. 3 million on the sale of two of his books which is actually quite a lot for the sale, the twothirds vote to kill what was it court, not surprising though. He is, he was Donald Trumps former attorney who took guilty pleas and went to jail. I mean, i think there was a lot for him to write about that people were interested in a lot of time to write and a lot of time to write and reflect as he talked about and testified today. I do we think the prosecutions arguments this morning with Michael Cohen were really interesting for the reasons that kara just laid out, but also because there were a few moments where everyone realized it was a big moment from his testimony, were Michael Cohen said the reason he paid Stormy Daniels that money was to ensure that the story wouldnt come out to hurt Donald Trumps chances of winning the election. And if there had been now election, he said he never would have paid Stormy Daniels most likely, there were those few moments that as we were hearing about the documents and about comments he made about trump, it kinda crystallized. Why Michael Cohen was there. What really surprised me is when the cross started this afternoon, donald trump had this demeanor of where he was closing his eyes again for sustained periods of time. He wasnt always watching the Witness Stand, i believe only once or twice because hes seen kinda looking over because he has to lean over to actually see the witness and thats not the way anyone expected him to be engaged. I think, especially as it was his attorneys time to grill Michael Cohen when Stormy Daniels was getting crossed examined, he was paying quite close attention. It was not the same way today, which stood out to me given of course, his hatred for Michael Cohen is much higher even than Stormy Daniels, elie, how do you think todd blanche did . I mean, he is actually not an experienced Trial Attorney. Well, hes experienced Trial Attorney on the prosecution, sayyed, but defending is very different. And by the way, prosecutors are not very experienced at cross plus examination. Im just going to say candidly, i thought the crossexamination was unfocused and underwhelming. I followed minute by minute as we were doing our live coverage, i just reread the whole thing. There were moments i think where he breaks through and scores points, but by enlarge, he was jumping from topic to topic. He missed some obvious moments. Ill give you an example. The first question which you talked about in the warmup, their anderson was wildly inappropriate and i think ms casta stakes blanche, came right out and said, weve never met you and may Michael Cohen, right . Michael cohen said no and he said yeah, you called me a crying little on tiktok, immediate objection. Sustained. Its not relevant what Michael Cohen thinks of the lawyer. Its very relevant when Michael Cohen thanks. Of the defendant, which he got to later. But if youre talking lunch, you dont want to make it about Michael Cohen versus the defense, or you want it to be Michael Cohen versus the truth. So im not impressed by what ive seen from the cross so far. He has a date of figure here it out. He said hes going to take all day thursday, but i think he needs a change in course here what do you guys . Well, im glad to be with you. I do think some of what he did was pure tactics. I mean, i think this moving around and not having this timeline crossexamination is a good thing because you know, the code like any other prosecution witness who has been prepped at nauseum tell their story. So you want to get them if youre crossexamine and you want to make them tell the story on your terms and not to follow the script that theyve been in. So i can see that i really took away that the jurys probably see it and thinking right now that covid has gripped are in a wafa he clearly is making money off this. He clearly somebody whos got his hand in the till to try to sell his books. And as long as he we can keep hayden trump and things go south for trapped and he can he can make money. Question is, do they look at the president , former president that way . I mean, i dont know yet. I mean, honestly, because then cohen didnt help himself. Hes kinda critical here because hes the only thing the state has to make this connection. To make this case a felony, and that to move it from my misdemeanor Business Records case to say we were doing it because we were trying to basically break the federal law, the camp, the Campaign Finance law. And so hes got to do that and right now, hes been so hedging kg during his cross and not want to answer questions. Juries pick up on that. I mean, they they will pecker if he answers the questions completely and gives us very vivid memory let me to a prosecutor and then to the defense attorney, he suddenly that remember what he did yesterday. Are not sure about i pick up on that. I dont think that i dont think thats true at all about the felony issue. I think hope hicks, who is obviously favorably disposed towards trump, also talks about how they had to keep Stormy Daniels quiet because of the election i think it was as elie said, a kind of stumbling start in terms of the theatrical, but he certainly did establish that trump that can really cant stand trump and he hates 70s bidder and hes not hard to his have not not not not hard to establish what im waiting for. Is an explanation for the evidence other than the prosecutions evidence pro version. Look cohen paton, just daniels trump paid him 420,000. The prosecution has a clear explanation for why these transactions took place, and if they believe that hes going to be convicted the one thing we didnt get it all today and theres a long time to go is well okay. If thats not the explanation for why this money changed hands, what is it and blanche didnt do any of that today. And well see if you really do. They have to provide that or is just a reasonable doubt enough to poke holes in what the explanation theres by the prosecution. Well, you need i mean, yes, reasonable doubt is enough, but doubt as prosecutors like to say, doubts have to be based on reason. I mean, there has to be a reason that these transactions took place other than the prosecutions explanation, and i havent heard it i mean, i think of iowa, but prosecutors, im feeling pretty good right now. I think theyre on their way to conviction. I think the entire burden always always rest on the prosecution. But jurors are everyday rational people. And at some point they started need a Counter Narrative. You have to give them something to hold onto. You simply cant say that this guy lacks credibility. I think what was effective here is because throughout this trial, we poured so much, frankly about what a scummy guy, Michael Cohen is, multiple witnesses, including hope hicks. I said the problems about Michael Cohen. And by the time we get to Michael Cohen, theres a way in which i think he those a little bit of under promising and overperforming it gets up there and he comes off from from what ive read with a calm demeanor. Hes not fighting, hes not over the top. Hes really coming and hes honest. And whats effective i think is that on direct, a lot of the most damaging things that Michael Cohen come out through the prosecution and thats on purpose because by the time you get to the defense youre trying to go over some of these old threads, but its not for the first time youre hearing that he has issues with donald trump or that hes lied before, or that hes a criminal. He said all these things before and unknown to them. So i think it loses some of the oem for the Defense Lawyers come up, but let me the thing is you have to Michael Cohen needs to be flustered. That is what trumps team is trying to do. It didnt seem what they were very successful at that today. There were a few points where he said, well, thats not a lie. Its an inaccuracy and topline said, okay, whats the difference . And they said, okay, its a lie. He did was caught off guard a few moments on those parts. But when the prosecution was up and they were asking Michael Cohen about what it was like for the fbi to come and to rate his his hotel that he was staying in because his house was under renovation, his home, his office, and what that was like, he was describing that he was frightened, despondent angry, up his life had been turned upside down and he talked on this call that he got from trump a few days later and we had heard at the time, trump called and maybe four so days after after the raid called him back really. And he said trump told him, dont worry, im the president of the united states. Theres nothing here. Everythings going to be okay. Stay tough. Youre going to be okay. And then they went into this Pressure Campaign to keep an attorney who was aligned with donald trump to not flip and cooperate with prosecutors. My question was held. The jury takes Something Like that where they did this compelling link story of what Michael Cohen was facing. Let me just asieh, somebody who knows Michael Cohen from i dont know how much you actually know him, but from television and probably interviewing him. Was he likeable on the stand . I mean, was he Michael Cohen who is the guy in the tiktok videos, who seems to like your tear himself talk and he was not that person as you know, i spent five hours this weekend watching Michael Cohens testimony from capitol hill, and it actually is really informative for how he was on the stand. I thought i think if you want to get an idea of what Michael Cohen is like on the stand and kara was there for the cross so she can answer that better today. Then. Thats a really good way because and lanny davis, his attorney, says, we test if we tried the night before Michael Cohen blow a gasket when they were kind of impersonating what jim jordan and mark meadows would do, and lanny davis said, great if you do that, republicans will be highfiving you tomorrow. It was a similar method today where where he was really trying to be calm. He was saying yes, maam, no, maam. He was looking at the jury. I mean, he was really trying to not be the boisterous Michael Cohen that you see on tiktok or on television. I mean, extremely controlled, especially for anyone whos dealt with Michael Cohen or seen him in interviews, he can be so bombastic can begin so reactive to what someone says and almost always wants to have the last word. And in this he is just true tremendous control on his part of answering the questions even when todd blanche is going toetotoe with him parsing things, he is he is not raising his voice. He is answering the specific question and at times he tried to add a little bit more to it and some blanche would punch back and say thats not what i asked you, but he didnt take the bait. And he didnt react in the way that i think a lot of us have seen michael contract. Yeah. Not taking the bait is notable for Michael Cohen. To me, were you surprised that the prosecution is not calling somebody else at the resting on Michael Cohen because there was a lot of talk beforehand of is he really the best person to leave them with from the prosecution standpoint, it must be assigned that musketeers feel like you did a good job. Why . I think what it shows you is that the Michael Cohen we saw today was part of the plan and hes showing up the way the expected him to show up. When i was a prosecutor in handling trials. You want to put week witnesses kind of in the middle, right . Its not its you dont want to end on someone that you think is gonna get up there, get battered, and really n on a week . No, because thats not what you want either the defense to go into Closing Arguments with or you want the jury to be thinking that last bit of your case, the fact that theyre ending with him to me says one they feel confident theyve made their case, and i think too, that they have a belief that hes been a strong witness for them. I think they plan this. I mean, prosecutors are not going to start a lastminute decision that, you know what, well just stop with him at that point, theyve thought about the elements and thought about their case. And i think it bears out because by the time we get to Michael Cohen, a lot of the critical elements of this case, but david pecker and hope hicks, like jeffrey was saying, have already been and established. So Michael Cohen i think is really crossing the ts, but he was not a witness that you thought before he got on that this case was was barebones and he had to build the entire thing up answered it really close. I think karatay point about how they ended with the direct examination with putting in the checks and the documents. Its important britain to remember for all the drama. This is a case about false Business Records. They put the records in front of the jury at the end of their case, and i think that was very much intentional and if theres a conviction, they will have made the right decision. Kara scannell, thanks for being with us. Everyone else is going to stick around the full transcript of todays testimony just been released, including more for of cohens colorful descriptions of the foreign president. So for media and on his podcast and just why the defense, one of those words in the record, plus what the jury may make out of these attacks on lipophilic in his character, Jury Consultant make your dream car a reality mercedesbenz certified preowned vehicles are rigorously inspected to live up to the highest expectations you give and you give. Now you get with Straight Talk wireless, you get unlimited data and you get to choose who gets on your family plans starting at just 25 a line, doesnt have to be family. More leinz, more savings, switch to Straight Talk for plants starting as low as 25, align victims of mesothelioma and their families may be entitled to receive a cash awards word from the estimated 30 billion and Asbestos Trust Funds with over 50 awarded. 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I melies nonna in washington, and this is cnn so this in some nine, weve just gotten the full transcripts of the contentious testimony between Michael Cohen and the former president s defense attorneys. They have come out, we should point point out that opposing counsel in the Hush Money Trial got a preview of Michael Cohen as a witness back in october when he testified in the form of presence, civil fraud trial, including how he would handle the rickard, the credibility issue. This is what he said ahead of that Testimony Hi Credibility should not be in question. Yes, i like guilty to a 1001 violations with lying to congress, but also request lets do that. People continue the sentence and the sentences. I did it at the direction of in cancer with and for the benefit of donald j. Trump joining us. Now, those transcripts is our very own john berman. So they defense was painting. Michael cohen has man who hates trump had bent on revenge order some of the highlights or lowlights. Well, in this good, i suppose so there should be a warning here about language because it crosses over from p0 13 indurated are here. You spoke a little bit about how todd blanche right out of the gay, said crying little . Elie said the word here about about five minutes later, he dipped in even more to some Greatest Hits from Michael Cohen. Hes talking about cohens tiktok. You also talked on social media during this trial, but President Trump. Have you not . Michael cohen says, sounds correct yes. Blanche says so for example, on april 23rd, which is after the trial started, correct . Cohen says yes. You referred to President Trump as dictator dieback, didnt you . Cohen says, sounds like something i said, which by the way is one of the answers he gets very commonly or sounds like something i said, blanche says, and on that same tiktok. So again, on april 23rd, you refer to President Trump when he left the courtroom and you said he goes right into that little cage, which is worried belongs in an effing little cage like an animal. Do you recall saying that cohen says, i recall saying that and then a few minutes later in the trial, blanche starts talking about his podcast, cohens podcast. Blanche says, you recall the first one and 2020 as a cheetodusted cartoon villain, something he called trump. Cohen says that also sounds like something i said. Again, his common response now, blanche says, no. Do you recall around that same time, October Of 2020 years started talking about your hope that trump would be convicted of a crime, correct . Cohen says, i dont know if those are the exact words that i said, but the sentiment is correct. You think you might have said, i truly epic. Hope that this man ends up in prison. Is that exact . Cohen says, it sounds like my language on mea culpa the fact that Michael Cohens so obviously an overthetop is consumed by hatred for donald trump, wants him in prison, is celebrating and is selling tshirts is outrageous. We sort of take it for granted because this is ben Michael Cohens public persona for the last five, six years. But this should be a bonanza for crossexamination. Three federal former federal prosecutors here. What would you do if you found out the eve of a big trial that your star witness was selling tshirts showing the defendant imprisonment. Youd have to think hard about dismissing the case that is a major flaw in the defendant. Actually, if hes cheetodusted, yeah, that would be i mean, youre right Michael Cohen has sort of way with words because it can get funny. But laughing about defendant going to jail is i think its offensive to the jury. Thats not for Michael Cohen to say about. Thats the worst part of all the things that cohen has said. Its one thing to say. Hes terrible. I dont like him. Use all sorts of swear words. But if you were talking about the results of this case, i mean, thats what this case is about, whether donald trump is eligible to go to prison or not. And you have cohen campaigning for that. Thats a very negative, negative and blend and you should spend the first hour on that. Well, i mean, i dont think the jury is going to forget. He spent some time on it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i think we also have to remember these jurors are not like we are, right. I mean, they might not be watching everything prior testimony and stuff that go into said and so are expectations about how he would perform and what he would do, maybe a little different than what their expectations are. But hes he is the crucial witness i mean, i disagree with you about have they prove the case because when i went back to look at the Indictment Of De and basically theyve got to show that he intended to commit another crime. Not that he tried to help his campaign. Theyve got to show that he actually had the intent to commit another crime and i dont think theyve gotten there yet and thats what they hope theyve gotten their with colon but thats hes gotten to be the one. And so without that, thats where theyre trying to dang is credibility fl time after time and whether its through the comments that he makes on social media with how he acts on The Stand Their Wishy Washy Genus of his answers. I mean, thats what thereafter say, look, you cant believe him and dont forget, he ran a tape on his client, didnt tell me about every day you you believe that they have proof . Yeah. I think they have and i think when youre dealing with a cooperator, what you have to think about is corroboration federal prosecutors prosecutors, every day they put up murderers, for example, and theyre cooperators. They put up all kinds of people who do done awful, terrible things, much worse than selling tshirts and wishing that someone goes down, theyve tried to kill people. Theyve killed sometimes the victims nedd very case and juries believe them, because if youre going to challenge a credibility, you have to place it again to corroboration. I think thats where the Counter Narrative of explaining why is donald trump citing these 35,000 checks again and again and again, theyre obviously not for illegal fees or nothing gets a reasonable explanation. So i think the Cohen Question is going to come down to the corroboration when the jury goes back and think about all of these witnesses, they think about these documents. They think about what is a reasonable conclusion here, because its beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond all doubt. I think thats where the real challenge for the former president here. But she mentioned go ahead. You dont make an ax murderer. Youre cooperator to prove a jaywalking case. And thats sort of where were at i mean, theyve taken somebody and hes got all this baggage and all this stuff and he cant keep his mouth shut even during the trial. And they put him forward to prove basically a documents case. And i think that may hang with your angry with you you know, youve got somebody in your prosecuting, el chaco and you want for bring in the summer thats Cut Off Heads and sold drugs and carriers, guns and all that as your cooperating because thats the one closest to the organization you may have to do it remember the hells angels or whatever it is. But here, you know, youre using a guy that is so compromised. I thank and they had to spend their whole case trying to Pre Habilitation him to clean him up if i just guy who the foreign president chose to him by his side for 20th but thats, thats actually i mean, thats the point when it comes to the optics of how the jury sees this and how would they are taking in Michael Cohen, maybe they dont know everything, but i mean, for everything that Michael Cohen has said about donald trump, donald trump has said about Michael Cohen. Theyve shown those tweets to the jury as well. Well, were donald trump criticized Michael Cohen for doing what Paul Manafort did not. The fact that Paul Manafort went to jail and saying that he would not flip and talking on Michael Cohen did and saying no one should retain the Legal Services of Michael Cohen, will donald trump did retain the Legal Services of Michael Cohen for ten years and were talking about payments that he made to Michael Cohen at the heart of this. I also think the other thing that todd blanche got into and im sure well get more into it. Speaking of how much he made off of his books and after the postpresidency are not being in the white house, its not clear how the jury will take that. Its not like trump as a normal defendant while weve talked about trumps wealth and how its overstated. He is still a really wealthy person. And so its not clear that this jury of regular people is seeing Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels making money as this great sin against counting against them, given Donald Trumps wealth, john wooden more did cohen sandi about trumps involvement with the payments he said it was pretty direct and this was in the direct examination in the morning where Susan Hoffinger continue and youd watch he did yesterday. We have an exchange here about the payments to Stormy Daniels, which was ground they covered yesterday, hafez, your says why in fact, did you pay that money to Stormy Daniels cohen says to ensure that the story would not come out, would not affect mr. Trumps chances of becoming president united states, often, if not for the campaign, mr. Cohen, would you have paid that money to Stormy Daniels . Cohen says no maam. Todd blanche issues an objection. The judge overrules that says you can answer. Cohen says no, maam. Than hoffinger asked at whos direction and on whose behalf did you commit that crime . And then cohen says on behalf of mr. Trump, i do wonder if that gets to the point you bring up michael, youre talk about that in a second. I just want to very quickly say they also gotten the direct examination into the oval office visit, which is something caitlin been talking about for some time, or cohen says i was sitting with President Trump and he asked me if i was okay in the oval office. He asked me if i needed money. I said no. All good. He said because i can get a check and i said no. I said im okay. He said. All right, just make sure you deal with allen as an Allen Weisselberg and hoffinger asks, did he say anything about what would be forthcoming to you . Cohen says yes, it will be a check for january and february, and then at that point in time, you had not yet been reimbursed for the payments you had made history Daniels Cohen says, no, maam. This is a perfect example of What Temidayo and michael were just talking about that meeting. The fact that that meeting occurred is corroborated 5,000 different ways. Theres emails, theres texts, theres theres testimony from madeline who is the secretary outside the oval office . No question that meeting happened. No question when it happened, but as to what exactly was said, thats really just Michael Cohens word. And so he is corroborated, but hes not all the way corroborated. The jury, they cant get around the fact that the jury has to put some faith in Michael Cohens word a especially about the purpose of the payments. I mean, thats thats very important part of this case is that did this money was it a reimbursement . I think theres a lot of proof about that, but also the records, the Business Records that are allegedly false they have to trust colon that cohen that that trump knew the records were false. Thats really on colon and thats a big part of the confirm and thanks very much, katelyn. Ill just question how the jury will take all this coming up with Jury Consultant gives his take on Michael Cohens crosses oh, yeah meirs tickets from your inner child. What you really need life is some Freakin Torque was dodge corner our that totally torqued out crossover you give and you give me you get with Straight Talk wireless, you get unlimited data and you get to choose who gets on your family plans starting at just 25 a line, doesnt have to be family. More lines, more savings switch to Straight Talk for plants starting as low as 25 a line, you know, i spent a lot of time im thinking about der at three in the morning and he china what people dont know, is that not all dirt is the same. You need dirt with the right kind of nutrients look at this new organic soil from the miracle grow, everybody should have it, it worked great frehse. This is as good as gold in any garden. 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My next guest says cohen might have even come across as likeable and delivered one line, the jury will remember forever by saying, quote, i was kneedeep into the cult of donald trump join his now for nanos to biel, a jury and trial consultant and attorney as well. How do you think cohen did today . I give him an a as a witness, given the baggage that hes coming onto the witnessed in width if you just took that baggage and you gave it to any witnesses, an okay. Go testify. He did, as well as hes gonna do. I dont give him as a person. I mean, i dont think anybody wishes that he did all of those things are set, all those things. But having done that and now taking the witness, then he did great. He didnt fight. He took the punches he needed to punch and i think he came of credible. Do you think the defense in their crossexamination, i mean, the way todd blanche started it out, do you think it played well with a jury . I dont i dont know that i would have started making it about me and now we saw with judge said right at the sidebar, but its very hard to sit here and grade another lawyers paper when youre not in his position . I thought he did a reasonably good job. He made the points you need to make. But Michael Cohen was absolutely excellent. He was very well prepped. I loved the line that it sounds like something i would say because it really takes the wind out of the crossexaminati on. Hes not arguing with them. Hes not saying i dont remember. That makes the lawyer put it in front of him. Then he says its all i do remember. The jury gets annoyed with that. He handled that perfectly. That line for shore was scripted by his lawyer. He didnt come up with that, but it was the perfect line, but thats our density about that line is it sounds like something he might say, and it sounds like such a throwaway casual thing, but the idea that has been scripted out ahead of time you worked on that line. They worked on that because its like no responsibility, right . Yes. But its like, well, it sounds like something was the perfect yeah. And it also blends no matter how hard somebody comes at you with that its just absorbs it and blend. Thats why its perfect. But you know, at that moment at the beginning, when todd blanche did ask those questions, they were stricken from the record. The questions and the answers. But i mean, the jury is still hears that, like its still maybe its on the record, but its still in their mind that that happened of course, anything that gets said in court, even if it gets stricken, even if the judge instruct the jury disregard that. Of course, if i tell you not to think about pink elephants, thats the only thing that you can think about. So i got to the problem though, for blanches, the first two questions he asked were both objection sustained. It was the question about what did you say these main things about me and then he started asking Michael Cohen about comments. Michael cohen who made publicly about the jury objection. Sustained. Your credibility as a lawyer matters so much in front of the jury. And the first thing here, the sidebar . No, but they see the result they know the result is objection. Sustained. You dont want to go over two, right. Are not the point that that ellie and i were were were just discussing about its one thing to hate donald trump. Its another thing to be campaigning for a conviction and a Jail Sentence when you are testifying in the trial, that might lead to a conviction and Jail Sentence. I mean, isnt that a level of bias that is bigger . Then even worse, that then you can imagine, i mean, hundred percent terrible judgment, terribly out of control but given that you did those things, he handled it as well as he could have handled it. But youre absolutely right. I mean, what what a disaster to be doing, things like that and how out of control and see that is lawyers cant control on the prosecutor. Nobody can control this guy. But he did well, how does he get an a in that case . I mean, because doesnt that just call into Question Everything . To add a curve . It does, but the way he answered questions, the way he presented himself, the way he maintained his cool and his calm, the way he didnt fight, the way he didnt try and deflect. That was all absolutely spot on have you ever seen a witness with that much in that obvious a personal animus towards the defendant. I mean, look, the one thing you dont have in this case is that he doesnt have a cooperation agreement. Yeah. So as you know, somebody with a cooperation agreement, arguably has equal, if not more bias, if theyre trying to get out of jail, hes not playing any kind of get out of jail now, free card, which when youre crossing a cooperating, thats where you hammer them. You dont want to go to jail. Youre you will say anything to avoid jail time. They dont have that, but blanche did hit on that because he said the first time you approached the Manhattan De A your three months into your sentence. You had three years and so he did make the argument that you are trying to maybe work your way out a little bit early, but youre right. I mean, ordinarily you have someones looking at a monster sentence and the crossexamination is your only way out is through this Witness Stand is through pleasing these guys, the prosecutors, that dynamic is only very subtly present with michael collin, but on the flip side, you have a guy who i would argue has a greater incentive, which is entire identity. He is consumed by hatred for the defendant. Ive never seen that type of personal hatred and personal lusting for the person to go to jail. Like ive seen in this case. But the one thing i will say though comparing i think look at Michael Cohen as a person worth thinking about other cooperators and other witnesses to this jury, theyre thinking better human story, and i do wonder, is there a space here where theyre seeing the times where they have been loyalty so someone and theyve been back stabbed and seeing Michael Cohen as someone who perhaps he has his betrayal inside of him, but he has a reason for that. And i do wonder, is there a connection to be made there just because that did get drawn out he stood by the former president the former president , and hes now the one whos paid the consequences. So yes, its not good for our jury system. We started good for it system of justice, but it is a human story. I think some people will connect with i agree. He, he made himself very relatable in that way that he was so loyal to donald trump and he was so hurt. And hes now trying to right wrongs that he did. I thought the line cult of donald trump was tremendous. That line will be remembered forever. Its one of the greatest lines, but he did, he did really hurt the defense here in other ways. I mean, he said he did ten hours of work in 2017. Now remember the defense opened that these were legit legal fees. I think weve seen a mountain of evidence that they werent how are they getting out of that . You promise things to a jury. They promised it multiple times. Their opening, they are going to be eating that on summation unless they call some witness to try and justify these 35,000 a month paton. Were going to answer that though. He did say they did ganim say well, i get work for the family and they got i thought there was actually a decent bit of testimony that todd blanche elicited. He said Michael Cohen was paid 350,000 a year basically every year leading up to 2017, plus a bonus. So the argument is it wouldnt have been that outrageous or that notable to now suddenly be paying him 35,000 bucks a month, which comes out to four 20 per year. But the question is, if, what if thats what six in their mind that testimony that that blends elicited or where there was an hour this morning, were the prosecution walked Michael Cohen, we saw every single chip tech of the 11 checks that donald trump signed for him, Michael Cohen had to read the invoice that he sent to Allen Weisselberg. He showed the truck the check that donald trump sign donald trump jr. Eric trump as well. And every time Michael Cohen said that was a false envoys, it was for no legal and they have that document and weisselberg handwriting, which ics blaines how they came to the 35,000 a month, which again, the prosecutions evidence fits together. And what im waiting for in the defense is how theyre going to attack it. In a way other than Stormy Daniels is terrible. Michael cohen is terrible. Now what is what is the what is the alternative explanation for these facts other than what i mean put forward since these you have michael cote, you tomorrow, theres no court. So the jurors have Michael Cohen in their minds going into a de and they dont have testimony and then theres gonna be testimony on thursday. Michael cohen will be on the stand, and then friday, theres no courts Michael Cohen is going to be very present in this jurors mind tomorrow and all through the weekend . Yes. So strategically, what the defense wants to do is kinda run out the clock on thursday. They want to keep Michael Cohen on the Witness Stand. You might see todd blanche slow rolling it. Just to get there because before that reason because they want because then theres gonna be some distance and theres gonna be a threeday weekend because theres no court on friday. Michael cohen fades a little bit and then i dont know what the defense case is going to be. They say theyre going to put on an expert witness. I dont know expert as to what i mean. Theyve created a situation where theyre disputing that these were reimbursements, theyre saying they were legit legal fees. That is the factual battleground. That the defense has established. So i dont know what experts but they say they might or did they say that they definitely he says that he had dissipated tablet, said twice he and his weights going until the end of day on thursday, which means that our monday though, Michael Cohen would still technically be on the Witness Stand if the prosecution wants to do the redirect, the question is, is if they dont feel like todd blanche then all that effective. If the prosecution does that much redirect with Michael Cohen, they may or todd blanche might calculate let me stop it an hour before the end of the de, let them do you want are you going to try and end with Michael Cohen on thursday if you can, you dont want him back on monday. But i think thats how its going to be hand either a quick power move that prosecutors do once in a while with a cooperator after a long aggressive cross, if you feel good about it as a prosecutor, that you would have stood up when the judge goes. Okay. Mr. Thuban redirect, you just stand up and go . No redirect, your honor. Its like were good. I dont think theyre gonna do that here. Yeah. No, i dont think it signals to the jury he didnt he didnt hurt but a Short Redirect often accomplishes the same thing if you want to clean that up, but, but that is definitely a power move. And based on at least these first day, i can anticipate the prosecution doing just that ronaldo still fascinated. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it coming out. The former president had some political back backup today courthouse, so you can see all seem to share his sense. We come vice for anguish. 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Lets you choose from multiple agent proposals. Because when agents competing u win, dont all have to do that. Not really. Trust the number one app Real Estate Professionals trust, download the realtor. Com app today, im Katelyn Polantz at the federal court in washington. And this is cnn once again, the form president had a republican entourage with him in court today, including more Vice President ial hopefuls. And this time Speaker Of The House second in line to the presidency, Speaker Johnson use the opportunity to take shots into a star witness, something the former prisoners barred from. Actually, of course, doing this is a man who has clearly on a mission for personal revenge and who is widely known as a witness who has trouble with the truth. He is someone who has a history of perjury and his wellknown for it no one should believe a word he says today Speaker Johnson also professed the innocence of the foreign president , called The Trial A Sham is appearing slide former congresswoman january 6 Committee Vice chair at liz cheney to write this on x. Im surprised that Speaker Johnson wants to be in the i cheated on my wife with a porn star club. I guess hes not that concerned with Teaching Morality to our young people. Laughter all right, here in new york, a big fundraiser headlined by the former president cohosted by the parents of jared kushner. Attendees include more contenders for trumps vp pick including centers marco rubio, tim scott, and south dakota governor kristi noem, joining us. To discuss it. Cnn senior political commentator, David Axelrod she did not bring the dog yes. Lock up your dog. She says disorder with well what does r0 i mean, it used to be that Vice President ial candidates would go to party dinners and they do television in origin. So on to sort of audition for the vice presidency. Now they show up in court in support of their candidate, who is on trial for what is on trial for and theyre basically carrying his his his words out to the world. But im relieved that Speaker Johnson is offended by people who dont always tell the truth, the Trump Campaign released a Fundraising Video that according to them, were shot inside the courthouse today, larry trump, eric trump appearing it with Vivek Ramaswamy donald trump himself actually pops up to the end. I can give a thumbs up. Is that a first a Fundraising Appeal from a courthouse . I would think so, but yeah, i dont have anything to compare it to because weve never had a president who has been on trial in the middle of a campaign either, but listen, it does speak to the place that donald trump is in right now in terms of the republican party, he he is a force he, they think he is doing well in this campaign. These guys want to be Vice President. Thats why theyre turning up. Its a Command Performance in some ways. And for Speaker Johnson, look, donald trump basically allowed him to survive. It. He went down to maralago. He made his peace with trump and trump basically stood down if he had put his shoulder to the wheel, he could have deposed johnson when Marjorie Taylor greene did what Marjorie Taylor greene did or certainly made it harder for him. So he is paying back a dead end and buying an Insurance Policy on his Future Tenure as Speaker Of The House. Jeff, do you think people like jurors notice whos in the courtroom behind . Im going to speak as a manhattan residents. I dont think a lot of manhattan residents know who mike johnson is or what he looks like. So i dont think that wasnt actually the courthouse today. Ill he wasnt that he just made like it was going or dance or i to be honest, no. I dont think they notice now, this all made me think of the way the kardashian name became famous was because Robert Kardashian who was texting a lawyer, but not really a lawyer, was part of oj simpsons entourage during his trial. And thats how you know, that name became famous. But here i think this is much more of an insight political game to gain favor with donald trump than it is to affect either the jury or even and people in met so trump is doing what trump did before the 2020 election. He is pre spinning a result and they are a betting that effort in delivering a message that this is a political trial, that theres no foundation for it, that Michael Cohen is a lying Repro Beit H2s bent on revenge this is all part of what trump does so well, which is two kind of set the terms of the debate. So if things go badly he can say, well, we all know at this about it. Can there there are now a party to caitlin . You spoke to doug burgum about the trial . Because theyre lets just play that when youve got a a judge that donated to joe biden when youve got prosecutors that supported joe biden, when youve got the judges Family Members that are benefiting financially as democrat operatives. And then when youve got as you just said, on the lead in this whole trial, rests on the credibility of someone who spent three hours morning describing a great detail how we lied to a grand jury, how we lied to a congress, and how he lied in in court cases. And so so this is just a tough thing. I mean, i prosecutions got a tough job to try to build their case on someone whos a serial perjure the one thing that sitting there listening to Michael Cohen testify, which is of course a youre referring to. I mean, donald trump hired Michael Cohen so far everything that you just said, i mean, that is the person donald trump chose to be his his personal attorney well, i think yes, thats true. The he did hire them, but i think that youll win the crossexamination youre going to come out. You heard a glimpse of it this morning that Michael Cohen leveraged the title that he had. He wasnt even doing work for President Trump and he was signing up clients left and right at 4 in Revenue Leverage that its actually interesting saying he wasnt even working for donald trump. Thats part of the prosecutions evidence in the case. I dont think theyre going to be calling him doug burgum as a witness. But i mean, it just shows that if you dont know the facts of the case, maybe you shouldnt talk so much. You better be careful. Theyre going to take that red tie back whats so interesting about this . I mean, the, this is also clearly a tryout for people who either want to be Vice President , people like doug burgum, or want to be in the cabinet, or are hoping donald trump will help them with their political fortunes. It wasnt that long ago when doug burgum was challenging donald trump for the republican nomination, he was asked if hed ever do business with donald trump, but he said no and he said that the reason that was is because he just believes its important that youre judged by the company you keep. Now that he is seeking to be Donald Trumps Vice President , he is obviously out there arguing on his behalf. The other thing that ive also found interesting that weve heard from doug burgum and jd vance who seem to be out vpn each other here is they both criticized the judges daughter. That is exactly what donald trump is doing when they expanded the gag order to prevent him from doing it. I asked doug burgum if donald trump instructed him to do so, which would violate the gag order. He said no, that he was just here as a volunteer i started to keep harping on this, but we just showed another photo a little wider shot or the one we just showed before that popped up in a red dye. Thats cory mills of florida, byron donalds, a vigorous obviously its spreading there are notes written on the back of those yeah data quickly your youve obviously having a lot of experience advising Democratic Candidates for president. If you were advising the democratic nominee right now, would you tell them to go harder on Donald Trumps pending legal troubles . Put aside this hush money case. I know it has limited appeal, but how about the january 6 indictment . The classified documents, do you think joe biden should be doing more and more aggressively on that . Look i think that when you look at the people that he needs to get, i think the people who feel strongly about that issue, at least at this juncture, hes getting those people. He may be able to persuade some at the end on this. The people he really needs to get in, the people who are hanging back and arent as engaged, theyre very much motivated by things like economic issues. And i think he has drawing sharp contrasts some of those issues in some ways theres a lot of knowledge about this on that point. The other thing that doug burgum did say that i think does resonate with voters and look at the latest polls from the New York Times in sienna is, he said Americans Care more about their Grocery Bills and whats happening in that courtroom behind us. And that is a point that you dont hear from donald trump often when he comes in thanks to the cameras, but it is something that you have heard from a lot of this report. Yeah. Listen, ive said from the beginning, if youre sitting around the kitchen too, and i feel strongly about these democracy issues. I think theyre very, very important. But if youre sitting around the Kitchen Table talking about democracy in the future of practice. You dont have to worry about the cost of the food on your table if you have to worry about that, its more likely likely the thing on your mind and i think there ive been ive said before i think the president needs to lean into those issues a lot more. He seems more intent on defending his Economic Performance and getting credit for the good work that he has done in many ways. And not really advocating for people in a tough economy because of the inflation, it would extra and good heavy. Thank you. Next more on the crossexamination of Michael Cohen and trumps demeanor during it all joined to someone else who was inside the courtroom if you were stationed, working or living at camp zhun between 1953 and 1987 and you or a loved one have suffered from severe illness, you may be eligible for a Settlement Offer its a veteran, morgan and morgan really advocated for me. Number grave for the morgan and morgan would dare they helped me because these guy de what i couldnt do a mount, morgan and morgan has already helping over 50 been thousand veterans and their families and the fight towards justice. For more information, call the number on your screen or visit www. Dot campbell is yoon hi, its christina again. Im here to tell you about an all new special offer from my friends at jacuzzi Bathroom Model that you dont want to miss . You already know jacuzzi has been making waterfilled great for more than 65 years. And now theyre bringing you this special tv offer. 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