Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240703

The end. You dont have to put a roof on it, you dont have to put signing on it. You can do whatever you want with it. But its just encouraging to see somebody take their anxiety and turned it into action . Yes. To make a site and actually all of us absolutely lee and 5 more. I mean, thats nothing when you think about it. All right. Thank you so much, bill. And dont miss the onehour champions for Change Special Saturday at nine ac30 60 starts now good evening and what a de and welcome to a week of testimony from perhaps the most consequential and controversial prosecutor and witnesses the former president s hush money trial. Michael cohen a onetime fixer attorney, and according to his memoir, Designated Thug for the former president. Hes now a convicted felon and self admitted per juror. But despite that resume, he took the stand today as the single individual who can show the jury believed him do what no other witnesses can testify to multiple directly conversations with the former president about then candidates not allege knowledge and even authorization of every critical step of the alleged hush money crime that forms the basis of 34 Felony Charges against him, plus, cohen can testify to the prosecutions allegation that the socalled catch and kill scheme was a political move designed to win an election cohen today quoted trump telling him he wanted Stormy Daniels allegation under wraps until after the election, quote if i win and has no relevance, i will be president if i lose, i dont even care. Prosecutor use tax call logs and emails wherever possible to document cohens testimony and tried to front end the credibility issues the defense will certainly use against cohen afterwards, the former president addressed the news media. He had harsh words for the trial itself and the judge, but no mention of the witness just in the gag order, may be having an effect joining me now, criminal Defense Attorney arthur aidala, former federal prosecutor, jeffrey thuban, and a slew of my colleagues who are in the courthouse on these huge day anchors, abby, phillip kaitlan, collins, laura coates, and also corresponds kara scannell, caroline start off with you as we often do, what was like i mean, i thought it was just so fascinating how Michael Cohen was so controlled today. His answers were very deliberate. He chose his words carefully. He was measured as he told this whole story from when he first started working for donald trump, where he was talking favorably about him, about the experience to ultimately where are we ended up at the end of the de, which is work he said donald trump approved this reimbursement to him. Another thing that really stood out to me was how prosecutors were weaving these call logs inbetween everything that michael Congress Testifying to really give the jury Something Else to look at it. Its not just Michael Cohens worry. Its not just Michael Cohens word because a lot of this is cohen remembering a conversation he had with trump, but theres no other evidence of what that conversation was, except these call log show that calls took place, one that stood out to me right before Michael Cohen went to the bank to create the bank account for essential consultants. And then why are the 130,000 payment to Keith Davidson, Stormy Daniels, attorney . He called on trump twice that morning at 8 30. We know he got to the bank at 10 00 a. M. And open the account and began this process. So we were seeing from the prosecutors getting to the credibility of cohen giving the jury Something Else to look at here, which were these call logs kaitlan, you were there in the afternoon. What was that . Yeah. And the afternoon is really when they got to the heart why were sitting inside that courtroom, which is the negotiation of this deal. That was interesting to me. I will go and say before that he spoke to donald trump before he took down that Home Equity Line Of Credit. But what was so notable about that moment is what we had heard from karen are other colleagues all morning. Was that trump wasnt or that Michael Cohen wasnt really looking at the jury, wasnt making eye contact when he was answered bring that question and explaining why he did it, which is because it was paperless, no documents would come in the male to his home saying that you took out 130,000 line of credit because his wife didnt know and he was explaining that he looked directly at the jury for sustained periods of time and it was kinda walking in through it. And then in another moment he was explaining when which the prosecution was trying to get up because they know the defense will bring this up on crossexamination. Is Michael Cohen wanted a job inside the Trump Administration and didnt get one. Michael cohen was saying today, he didnt actually think he was qualified to be Chief Of Staff and he wanted his name to be yeah, thats a great well, this is the for days, but he wanted his name to be included because it was essentially an ego boost. He was very upfront and blunt about that, but he was talking about Text Messages with his daughter and how good of a relationship that they have and where she was texting him. And they showed this on the screen that she was asking, you know, youre not going to get a job after everything youve done for donald trump. And that was his view . Billing as well. And he was explaining that to the jury and they were listening very closely. And it was kind of a humanizing moment for Michael Cohen, which he certainly is going to need when the defense tries to obviously eviscerate them as works. There were a lot of those. It was there in the morning for the the ramp up to all of this. And this is where you really saw Michael Cohen. I think exercising the control, the qarrah is talking about. Weve all at some point or another talk to Michael Cohen, the version of Michael Cohen that most people are used to. Hes pretty bombastic. He can be very loud. He was not that person on the Witness Stand when he first got there in the morning, he had his hands to his side most as if he was sitting on them. He had his Body Language was so close to the vest and he starts talking about this relationship with trump, trying to build up this credibility that he was not always this bitter person, even to the point of talking at not on numerous occasions about how many times he did things for donald trump, knowing that he would not get paid for it. He was not paid for a lot of work that he did before he came into the trump organization. There was 100,000 thousand dollars that that served in two key ways. And at this point perhaps speaks to how well well, he was prepared one, it showed that trump if he didnt want to pay a bill, he wouldnt pay it. But two, that Michael Cohen was willing to do whatever for the simple praise of being in trumps orbit. And then again, when after the election, trump doesnt give him the job of his dreams, but dont as make him a personal attorney. He says he knew he wasnt going to get paid for that job. He was going to have the title, but no compensation. The only money that he was going to get where those 35,000 checks that were actually more or less reimbursements for the Hush Money Scheme . I was really struck by just how puppy like he just he portrayed himself for donald trump. I mean, i was there in the morning. It was a bit surreal to see him describe himself and his voice would almost be wistful talking about. I was on Top Of The World when he would we need praise them, that he was seeking that praise that validation. And that was so important for the prosecution to get out because they want the jury to have a snapshot. They dont want the Michael Cohen up today. They want to have the person who at that time what were you willing to do . What did you do . But more importantly, at who is behest did you do so . We hadnt heard much testimony up until now. About the direction that were given by donald trump, who he was giving the attractions to. We heard today. I want you in the pecker to work together. You and Allen Weisselberg to figure this out. The instructions given in a way we had not seen before. And there was also a moment where they took the wind out of the sale of the Defense Argument suggests that look hes a liar and all capacities why believe and why he says one, i lied routinely for donald trump. That was part of my job. He knew that i did that and for the media, the other part was the big question everyone asks, why did he record that phone call or that that conversation between himself and donald trump . He says fronting the issue, i did it because i wanted david pecker to remain loyal to trump. I did because i wanted to show pecker that he didnt tend to pay the money. And i knew it was in a cut off the phone cloth yet or the courage in the end, but it didnt matter. I already have what i needed at that point. And so whether thats coming across as authentic, the jury or not, that seems like the biggest bunch of bowl i mean, thats what he is arguing. Is that he Donald Trumps personal attorney is secretly recording recording a phone call against covered, violating all sorts of ethical things of his own client that hes then going to play to david pecker, an alleged personal friend of donald trump yeah. To tell david pecker for how trump has his back. If im personal friend of donald trump, im david pecker. Why wouldnt david fair go to trumps theres 40, didnt say thats why at the beginning with so important, were you part of the legal team . No, i was not. Were you prior General Counsel . No, i was not. And we had heard the idea of him being called the attorney all this time. Its what he was to tell david pecker that hes seen quarterly recorded the other part about this is that yes. David pecker was a close friend, two degree of Donald Trumps. But according to Michael Cohen, this is his testimony. David pecker was furious and was antsy. He was nervous that he had put basically 130,000 on amis she wrapped bank bank account and he couldnt justify it and he wanted trump to repay that money back. And on top of that ami had that drawer of dirt alleged Dirt On Donald Trump and Michael Cohen was nervous about that. And so the money that was supposed to go to Karen Mcdougal was not just for Karen Mcdougal, but also but for the contents of that drawer, the part that i was the most skeptical of was why All Of A Sudden that went away when it went away pretty suddenly. All of a sudden, david pecker was like, oh, i made all this money. The more rational explanation mcdougal and knew that this was sketchy and he was recording for his own protection is that thats also not to the benefit of donald trump either. I dont think but the prosecution accomplish what they needed to well, the thing that struck me in reading, i was not in the courtroom, but in reading the testimony is the scaffolding that the prosecution is building around Michael Cohen. Karen mentioned the phone records, but its not just the phone records. Its how often the prosecution susan hoffinger, the lawyer, either explicitly or implicitly connected his testimony to other evidence in the case, whether its other testimony, other other documents just building this scaffolding so that if he gets attacked, its not just his word now, obviously his word counts for a lot, especially in the conversations with trump. But other than that, you know, what the question i have and i assume well get to this later is just how are they going to attend . Hi, kim, because they cant say he didnt know donald trump and the checks speak for themselves. He did pay Stormy Daniels. He did get checks from trump. What is theyre going to say hes liar, hes terrible. But what is it that he lied about . Why we had a Defense Attorney what, do, you attack him . Everyone saying, oh, you know, today was a great day for the prosecution. If today was not a great day for the prosecution, alvin bragg has to go in there tomorrow and like dismiss the charges. I mean, today had to be a great day. Oh, the first maybe maybe one of the theres so many ways to attack but i would say mr. Cohen, you testified direct examination that you didnt take 130,000 out of your bank account because to pay for this because i dont want your wife to know, correct. And would you determine to do the way to get around that wants to take out a Home Equity Line Of Credit . Correct. And that was a way for you to lie to your wife, correct . No. No, i was so in my life. Well, you didnt go home and say, honey, we have to make a decision here and our marriage to give 130,000 to pay this off. He didnt do that, correct. So you deceived your own wife regarding this particular matter . Correct. How does that make donald trump innocent . Its jeffrey, you know, this is why i have the charge will read or later on, i have the charge that the judge will read to the jury at the end of the case about credibility at basically anderson, what it says is you could accept in whole or in part its called falses uno so if you find that hes lying about one thing, just one thing. The judge is going to tell him. You can throw all of them the testimony when President Trump needs is one to two or maybe three of those people on the jury to be like, i cant live. Abby doesnt believe him about one thing seriously, then obviously one or two of those people who dont agree with her like this guys full of it. I do have one other thing that i found to just be lacking in Michael Cohen once testimony me, he testified to Allen Weisselberg talking him through how he would be compensated, and then he says, Allen Weisselberg went and brave basically briefed trump, but he wasnt in the room for that conversation. The strong implication is that trump was then told that he was going to be given Michael Cohen was going to be given this money on the cover of some kind of retainer, which is the falsification of business records. Part of it. But Michael Cohen doesnt actually know that and he testified that maybe that conversation happened, but he cant really prove it and you cant really put he was out allen, but he was asked at the end, which is probably one of those critical ones to come out of this is if Alan Isobaric showed that document, which is the key document, really the whole case to trump, where they talk about how theyll change it, and how always going to be compensated and then get the extra 50 grand for something that trump didnt pay him four. And he said he testified that yes. Allen weisselberg did show that document to trump and the trump did approve it. If youre the jury, arent you wondering where as weisselberg theyve called other people, talk about what hes, what hes done and how the accounting works. But thats the real missing elephant in the room. But one way to get a sense of how maybe the fact binders a jury of thinking about this is through the objections that were raised by the defense that were sustained today. When the judge is going along with what theyre arguing and part of that was every time the prosecution attempted to say and go one step further. If i go cohen and say and from what did you think that person meant when they said that to you or what do you think that person was feeling at the time it was sustained each time because youre needing Michael Cohen to go that extra step to suggest as it wasnt just intimation, it wasnt just my thought about how and why you were saying it. But could you actually give me the verbatim details of what they said as opposed to him just saying, well, what did he say once you told him things have been done . Fantastic gift. Thank he stayed fantastic, fantastic is not an instruction, but it could be for the Jury Allegation that he wanted it to happen kara scannell. Thank you. Were never more everyone else stay with us. We just got the full transcripts of todays testimony, including Michael Cohen admitting to pass lies. John berman is going to go through those forests plus the most fascinating if you pointing the entire courtroom Sketch Artist Christine Cornell joins, except for the people on the panel. Of course, Christine Cornell joins us again with her impressions the place where no cameras are sadly allowed. Look right back anderson cooper, three, 60. Hes brought to you by tebor visit sounds like td. Com jade made progress with your Mental Health, but her medication caused unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia or tdi. So her doctor prescribed us dead oh, xr a oncedaily td treatment for adults hasta to xr significantly reduced kates td movements some people saw response as early as two weeks with costello xr, kate can stay on her her Mental Health beds. 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Com slash trust i can get two months free weve just gotten the full transcript of the days proceedings and john berman is going through right now before we go through some of the key moments, its worth noting that it was just over six years ago after months of silence about the alleged payment to Stormy Daniels when then President Trump finally answer repeated questions by the media and said he knew nothing about the payment, but pointed to Michael Cohen 30,000 payment what am i we have to ask Michael Cohen, michaels my charney and youll have to ask michael kahn i dont know journeys now with transcripts from cohens Testimony Today seen as john berman. So we did just get the final installment of the transcript in it was at the very end of the day in this last section that perhaps the most important legal moment took place and it had to do when Michael Cohen testified about the payment plan and what trump knew, he described a meeting in trump tower in January Of 2017 when trump was president elect at that point with Allen Weisselberg, Michael Cohen, and donald trump. Michael cohen says, during the conversation, allen turned around and said to me, while were talking about this, it was and what were gonna do is were going to pay you over 12 months. It was probably better if i get it in one lump sum. No, no, no, no, no. Why dont you do it as over 12 months and it will be paid out to you monthly question from the prosecutor, susan hoffinger. And if he say anything about how it would be paid out as something cohen . Yeah. It was Like Legal Services rendered heard since i was then being given the title of personal attorney to the president , then a little bit later, hoffinger asks, did mr. Weisselbergs state in front of mr. Trump that you are going to receive 420,000 over the course of 12 months, cohen . Yes. Hoffinger. And what, if anything, did mr. Trumps say at the time . Cohen says he approved it and he also said this is going to be one heck of a Ride In Dc Question from hoffinger. And did Missile Weisselberg say in front of mr. Trump that those Monthly Payments would be, you know, like a retainer for Legal Services. Michael cohen says yes. So why laura coates is that the most critical testimony from the day . Well, because were talking about 34 counts of falsifying business records. The heart is not whether there was an affair or whether the allegations were true about either Karen Mcdougal are surely daniels is about whether or not they intentionally falsified records to suggest that this was more than what mcconney talked two batches, simple dropdown menu or options where this i had to put Legal Services down. It was an intentional act. He is alleging, of course, youre talking about always sober and cohen, this conversation. But the defendant is actually trump thats the issue. But have you looked at the words that burgess wrote read im calling you that because thats what he calls you. Im sorry. I answered a much worse. I dont mean to be the suspect. Four, i always call all right. Sorry he says he approved it, but it doesnt use the words that he approved it with. He quotes some saying this is gonna be a heck of a rotten dc, which has nothing to do with the approval so thats something that i would i would focus on as well. Well, you said he approved. Did he nod his head. Did he Say Something you want to direct . He approved it but didnt say how you prove said okay, thats great. That sounds good. Allen, get it done. You just said he approved it, but then you remember him saying its gonna be a heck of a rod in dc so why is your memory so clear about its a heck of a rotten dc and not how, how did he approve it . But isnt that isnt that statement that he remembers. If he were locked hi wouldnt he say oh, yes. Make it be sure to make it a look like a legal fee. In fact, it seems like trumps sort of changes the subject and talks about his experience in dc, isnt that doesnt want to see how he approves it. He just says he approved it. That was the other question. It also is Michael Cohen talked about how he basically never constructed a Retainer Agreement for trump because he never was getting paid for basically anything that he did for donald trump, including the 100,000 he was owed when he was first brought on a decade ago and including in this moment when he was changing jobs then. So i think the other question that i had and there was a couple yz now getting paid and how often is if you are getting a legal retainer, is it ever grossed up for taxes . No. No. No, no. Exactly. So thats the primary question so the critical thing about that meeting is if its to believe believe this is the moment when trump is informed that the building is going to be the same proper Legal Services essentially well yes. But but also trump writes the checks i mean, what is what possible explanation for their is there except that it is the deal that he worked out with weisselberg and kotb. The questions that i have, i mean, if i mean, maybe arthur, you can speak to this is there a defense and trump saying or trumps attorney saying, well, he was advised by Allen Weisselberg, this is the best way to do it, and he agreed but thats definitely a piece of it. And also, i mean its not that he its not that a veterinarian laid out the money and hes giving it to Michael Cohen and legal fee and then Michael Cohen is going to give him his lawyer did leave lay out the money, the money is going to Michael Cohen. Michael cohen is his lawyer. So writing a legal legal fee down there its not like so farfetched. If im if im doing the closing argument, i would say, ladies and gentlemen, the jury, do you think when donald trump had constructions done on one of his buildings and he wrote a check to the construction firm. Do you think he broke it down . Well, this much it was for concrete and this much was for rebar. And this is much worse for window or you say, here heres the big check you deal with vermin. Here, Michael Cohen, heres the big check. If some of it is money that you earn, its yours. If someones money who laid out, its yours. But in my mind, it all goes on to legal fees but has a different summation. Right. And thats why they have Book Excerpts to talk about how meticulously he managed his money, how he didnt how he would say i can even had my westerhouts saying, but he would look at the things he would void out other aspects of it he knew were his money was going. He was telling Michael Cohen to pay 0. 20 on the dollar exactly what to renegotiate part of the test mine say it was about Michael Cohens job being two renegotiate invoices that he didnt like. That was a big is it . The argument is hes not a paying Michael Cohen. The argument you make as defending donald trump is its money going to his lawyer its monday, whether im sorry. Again, not for Legal Services. Thats the point. Okay. But i think you could argue to a jury that this is my new xia and its a political it is a political hit job on this guy because that i sit in the front row, alvin bragg, who is not sitting in a murder trial right now, whos not sitting in a Robbery Trial right now . Hes sitting here because he doesnt want him to be president of the united states. Its called selective prosecutions. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, and your justice in this courtroom. And justice dictates that you walk them right out. Well, let me let me raise with my thoughts on how outraising with this not managing the free world. He wasnt talking about deplete till it with homeless. He wasnt talking about congressional action. He was thinking about Writing Checks and Michael Cohen because of Stormy Daniels. So you want to talk about the rooms that were in and why were there and how long we stay there . Do you are you telling me that the person who is now the president and i was doing this, he was also concerned about Karen Mcdougal. Youre right. Youre right before a woman. He said but isnt i mean two words, not mean anything. I mean, no, no. Have they werent Legal Services. Thats a fact. What is going to go look im going to make he watched every penny. I get that part. I think thats been proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. I dont think theyve proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt that he is involved with how it gets written down in ledger books or how it gets how it goes down to his account. Thats clearly why is that what level of detail matters what what what youre leaving out our arthur understandably because youre making the case for the defense, is this is not an ordinary legal fee because as donald trump knows, this lawyer laid out 130,000 of his own money from his wife by the Board Campaign right . Right hey, thats what he did well, today is i think he made it clear that this if you believe is thesauri that nothing to do with millennia, theres nothing to do with his family. This had everything to do with pain and thats an essential that was one of the most brutal moments of Michael Cohens testimony. It was incredible. I think berman has the transcript what do you the transcript of the Locker Room Talk why and the why of both. The other one where he that one. Let me just play this sound bite because this was the interview i did with Melania Trump in 2016 about the access Hollywood Tape. I think if memory serves me, it was her first interview after the access Hollywood Tape he described it as a Locker Room Talk to you. I mean, you just sort of alluded to that as well. Is that what it is two, you just Locker Room Talk yeah. I i its kind of two teenage boys actually, they should behave better, right it was a correct and sometimes i said i have two boys at home. I have my young son and i have my husband so but i know how some men talk and thats how i saw it, yes whats interesting and we learn today, according to Michael Cohen, Melania Trump had a role in shaping cohen says it was her idea, which we have never go walk as it was her idea, halfinch the prosecutor says, what, if any, discussion you remember with mr. Travel about the access Hollywood Tape, cohen says he wanted me to reach out to all of my contacts with the media. We needed to put a spin on it and the spin that he wanted to put on it was that this is Locker Room Talk something that melania had recommended or at least he told me thats what meloni have thought it was. Now, to your point, caitlin, about melania it in her point here, Michael Cohen goes on to say, donald trump really didnt care that much about what melania thought. This is a little bit of an excerpt that also has a zinger about the timing here cohen says, during the negotiation of purchase and acquire the life, right . What he had said to me is what i want you to do is just push it out. This is the Stormy Daniels payment as long as you can just get past the election. Because if i win it has no relevance. I will be president. If i lose, i dont even care, then the prosecutor says, good, you bring up at the time the topic of his wife melania, and one of those conference sessions, cohen says, i did hopkins your what did you say in substance to him . Cohen says i said to him. And hows things going to go with the upstairs halford your says were you concerned about that . Cohen says, i was hoffinger says and what, if anything, did he say to you about that other way the upstairs, meaning whats happening. We believes what whats happening putting with the family whats happening with the mrs. Upstairs in trump tower . Yes. So then cohen says dont worry, he goes he goes, how long do you think i will be on the market for . Not long hopkins your says, what did you understand that to mean . Cohen says he wasnt thinking about melania. This was all about the campaign. This was a remarkable well moment. Were getting these updates from reporters inside the room. And this is one that makes you pause for a moment because it was essentially Michael Cohen who is very enamored by the former first lady and went to apologize directly later on at the white house, they had a lunch after he lied to her about the Stormy Daniels affair and the allegation and the cover up of it. But this moment to hear i mean, its Michael Cohens word that were going off of. But to hear him say that donald trump was essentially saying he could get married again. So easily that it wasnt a problem if she was upset by this. I mean, that was remarkable because also we know this turned into donald trump did win the White House Bill on a trump renegotiated are prenup and refuse to move to washington until it was done. And he is if you talk to people, hes terrified of Melania Trumps, shes the one person whose opinion he actually holds in high regard. And when shes mad at him, it really bothers him. Its why this trial is so personal to him, because it gets him in trouble at home a lot so that was a remarkable moment to hear Michael Cohen shed that insight coming up. Stormy daniels and the payment to her obviously, Alsot The Center of this trial of next an exclusive inteterview with her attorney, clark brewster. Well be right back thinking im thinking about her honeymoon. About africa so far hot air balloon rides, swim with elephants, weight three, four to safari great question. Like everything takes a little planning for what the mind towards the down payment on a ranch in montana with horses. Lets take a look at those scenarios. 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A statement that was subsequently released to the public by Michael Cohen. I asked her about a during an interview i did with her for six years minutes so you signed and released a statement that said im not denying this a fair because i was paid in hush money. Im denying it because it never happened thats a lie. Yes if it was untruthful why did you sign it because they made it sound like i had no choice. You have enormous putting a gun to your head, not physical violence now you thought that there would be some sort of legal repercussions if you didnt sign back as a matter of fact, the exact sentence used was they can make your life hell in many different ways. They being im not exactly sure who they were. I believe it to be Michael Cohen join his now an exclusive interview, Stormy Daniels, attorney clark brewster. I want to get your impressions of Michael Cohens Testimony Today and specifically how It Statements track with things youre your client has said. Do you think that they have corroborated each other . Now its interesting. Ive been stormy, has never met michael. The first time they talked was in a podcast for cohen. But so obviously has facts that shes not privy to with regard to the negotiations behind the scenes, how the money was allocated and dealt with. But i dont think theres anything that Michael Cohen had knowledge of it involving stormy that was inconsistent with what she testified to, didnt start with daniels realize at the time how big a deal this was unfolding behind the scenes. I mean, did she know about Michael Cohen factor . I dont think she fully appreciate theres a Keith Davidson just handling stuff. Yeah. Keith davidson who was representing Karen Mcdougal well as well, and stormy was aware of that, i think at some point, but obviously the nuances of how this was going down. She knew was significant for the campaign and that was the Pressure Point basically. But i dont think she knew all of them the machinations behind the scenes how do you think she came out from her testimony i think crossexamination. Yeah. I think first of all, the Prosecution Team has outstanding. We spent a lot of time with them very careful dealing with the facts and circumstances and corroboration of her testimony the defense is dealing with a very, very hard working, smart careful Prosecution Team, but i think stormy did a great job. She hadnt come facetoface with trump since 2007. I believe until they were in that courtroom together when there were moments where trump weve found out later was actually is attorneys being scolded by the judge. He was cursing audibly. Could she hear any of that or did what did she say about what it was like to be in the room with she was pretty non plus by him. She really didnt pay much regard to him. She did hear them. The statement that he made a couple of times to some or testimony, but pretty much harder. Im cursing in the courtroom. She heard him cursing, which she heard him responding audibly, but i dont think she that impacted or at all really trying to make her feel shamed in some way by her profession, she seemed completely unphased by that entering the courtroom saying her name was to be addressed as Stormy Daniels were there moments that she had been prepared that they would attack her in that way and do you think that her response was in line with how she truly felt . I think stormy was stormy on the stand and shes genuine. Shes very bright. Shes quick witted and i think she came across is genuine and open and exposed as she intended to be. And i think the jury saw that clark there was a lot of talk in testimony about stormys finances. And one of the things in her finances is because Michael Avenatti filed this failed lawsuit against trump. The Drudge Assessed attorneys fees against her. She now owes Donald Trumps Something Like 670,000 whats going to happen is she going to pay that can she pay it . Is there any way to fight it . Whats going to happen in that . Well, i think its a nonissue for this trial. They try to impeach her with it, but keep in mind the story that she that she told in that courtroom at factually was before there was any judgment. The judgment was inconsequential with regard to try to impeach her testimony with regard to that judgment is patently unfair, but thats what happens in a Defamation Case when the slap statute is applied, the attorneys fees are almost automatic. They werent appealed timely before i got involved the main case was but not the attorneys fees. So we were hampered and trying to deal with that but in the nda case, which is really the subject of her testimony in the courtroom. She want across the board. We were awarded attorneys fees every step of the way. We didnt get Avenue Bodies billing because he wouldnt cooperate. So phi was less is about 100,000 that came off that but will fight in florida. And i think that well get some relief. There. Was she aware of that . That potential that if she didnt, that was not in never explained, but i dont think it out and tell her. I dont want to speak for Michael Avenatti, but he never appreciated the risk of a slap defense and never really informed her of it and really exposed her. Terrible if i im just curious and you feel comfortable telling us about how many times would you say stormy was prepared by the District Attorneys Office . I dont have to say about i can tell you exactly i will just tell you that they were very diligent, very careful in their examination. Wanted corroboration with everything. She told them found it. But there were a number of sessions that were lengthy and being a trial lawyer and doing a lot of criminal cases, i can tell you this Prosecution Team has firstrate a number is more or less than five, more or less . Deb between the direct and the cross stormys demeanor on the stand was different from an outsiders perspective how did she go from that first day of testimony, first day and a half, two when she knew she was going to get grilled by the defense. I mean, how did she how did she take that . What did you did you tell her anything to kinda get ready for that moment . Sure yeah. We spent as you remember, wed tuesday then there was a dark day, wednesday, we come back on thursday, but i knew her time to shine would be on cross because shes very, very quick thinker or shes very seizes in on facts of the question and was very responsive i think the director was careful and i think the cross was right up or ally and she dealt with it well, afraid now. Yeah. She has a lot of fear and she really does. I mean, she was concerned about the security coming into new york she wore a bulletproof vest every day close . Yes. Until until she got to the courthouse. I can tell you that before she came on sunday, i mean, she cried herself to sleep. Im she was very she was paralyzed with fear, not of taking the stand are telling her story, but what might some nut might do to her. And im genuinely concerned about it as well. She had her daughters necklace on in the courtroom. Was that some kind of a good luck charm for a mom . Yeah, it was it was a feeling that she had her daughter with her and it was really cute that she did that. The daughter made that next the defense mood for mr. Allen during your clients testimony arguing they they tried to do it twice. What did you think of their argument . Well it really came into play with regard to the detail, some of the detail and establishing her credibility and why she did certain things. And she said i was fearful and she was told by a lawyer, you need to hide in plain sight. The story has got to be memorialized one way or the other. If something happens, theyll know who is motivated to do it. So that was that was the motivation. And i think the defense didnt like that. But keep in mind in the court of public opinion, trump is constantly said, shes a sleazebags. Shes a liar. I only met her one time at a and so that that lay down those facts he thought were important enough for the court of public opinion. Why wouldnt they be important enough for a jury in this case when she was on the stand, she talked about feeling like she was going to black out and youre talking to the feeling in your hands. I think she talked about her head sort of swimming. That was sort of a level of detail. She hadnt dead before, to my knowledge the prosecutor in questioning her said, is that a recovered memory and i think she intimated that, yes, it was sort of a memory should that had come to her is that something was that something new . That you had heard before . No no. Youre talking about the time she came out of the bathroom and he was on the bad right yeah. Shes always said that the defense made a big deal about clearly it was upset by that and was accusing her of changing the story from the 2011 in Touch Article which stormy on the stand said that was look its in touch magazine. You dont go into a level of detail with them. Essentially thats right. And so the question is asked by the prosecution were very detailed and very delving into very specific issues and some of the Gossip Magazine interviews that had been done before were just pretty superficial. But shes always said that i heard it from the first occasion i spoke with her indepth on this matter does it matter to her if trump is convicted and if so, why shes privately to me, she feels bad for the guy because shes just empathetic, but probably i mean, shes been so damaged by him in the statements. Hes made about her that any person would feel some degree of revenge motive. So i think that should be declined the jury does the right thing and find some and conviction on the fear part. I mean, there was a moment where she turned to the judge because her address was on a piece of evidence that she was worried they were going to show to the courtroom and to have out there. I mean, did she concern that they do have her address . Well honestly shes very concerned about that. And because she she lives in an area that might not have the level of security that shed feel comfortable with. Clark brewster. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Return null pleasure. Yeah. We were turning with one of the Sketch Artist who was inside courts say capturing history, her perspective on cohens testimony in trumps demeanor. Next cnn, central tomorrow seven eastern ow, incredible, amazing. My goto is luma by eye drops. Luma phi dramatically reduces redness in one minute and look at the difference. 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Who knows what could happen tomorrow . Cohen apparently appeared relaxed on the stand or earlier it seemed like trump tried to zen out or zone out as best he could often closing his eyes again. One of many scenes my next guest captured for us while in court today, veteran courtroom Sketch Artist Christine Cornell is with us again, tonights so you spent the day looking at Michael Cohen. Was there a certain detail you notice most about him while he testified well, his face is really long and thin, kind of shockingly so yeah. I mean, i think hes hes gotten smaller. He said recently that hes been having trouble eating. So youve hit on some things there. They lost. But first, i think sketched him when he first pleaded guilty in 2018 to a variety of federal crime i when he first pleaded not guilty oh, really . Yeah. Yeah. So did you look back at those old sketches before to prepare for today are tiny. I go on my wall just Michael Cohen everywhere. Thats thats cohen in 2018. Yeah. Yeah. He looks he looks younger. Theyre obviously so last time we talked you talked about how the art of a Sketch Artist brings a lot of humanity to cases. Im wondering, when you heard cohen today, did you do the humanity of him come across . I started to think about that he was 57 years old the trump is 20 years his senior. That there must have been an incredible attraction to this mentor type, powerful guy, you know, kind of giving him, you know, the bolts of zeus. He could threaten to sue people and they knuckle real fast because of what was behind him. You know, i found it faster. That he used to dress like trump, that you would wear the same flat colored tie in a lot of the videos are where theyre basically wearing identical black over codes. I mean, there was clearly a lot of sort of hero worship there yeah. Yeah. And i think that this betrayal was very, very deep. I mean, there was a time when trump actually had all of his contacts in his phone shifted into michaels phone . I mean, Greater Trust is there then his trunk change over the course of this trial in terms of how you sketch him . Well, his hair isnt as golden it was very golden like two weeks ago and i was i was i was surprised. Its its right now, its down into the range of what happens. Peoples hair when they kind of fade a bit aside from the appearance of Michael Cohen becoming thinner, did you notice in terms of drawing him in 2018 till now, a change in his demeanor. I mean, you talked about zero versus now . Yeah. Golly, he was so much bravado in 2018. Yeah. Yeah. Way back when and but then i also had the honor of drawing him when he was weeping and feeling very, very terribly sorry for himself as he pled guilty and saying he made terrible mistakes you know, i was thinking today about the evolutionary thing on Michael Cohen. Hes not evolved yet because hes still blaming trump for everything that he did. You know so thats just sure you follow the Testimony Today. I mean, when we talked about this a little bit last time, but when you are in utero, youre doing the sketch, how much you actually listening to the content. Oh, im listening to everything. Yeah. And that informs how youre doing it because i like more it seems like you start a sketch and you can you can erase parts of it early on and how once you started or you set with what youre doing. Well, sometimes you might say to yourself, gee, you know hes a little more agitated than that and you want to get that across if you can. I mean, some crazy things happen with his eyebrows. One of them is just really up here and the other is really down here. And you cant exaggerate it, frankly, i mean, i get afraid of doing a caricature, but nope christine, you are not sketching the jury but youre in there with the jury and youve seen a lot of juries. Can you make any observations about this jury compared to others . Theyre very intent if theyre very serious they they dont look at him when they walked into the courtroom you mean a look at trump . They do not look at him and is that unusual in your experience . I think we only really think about that stuff when youre waiting for the verdict your heart isnt your throat, and im like, i just hope christina going to draw me a picture that i want to keep because its going to be a good memory, not a bad method. Well you know, they they wont look at at somebody theyve convicted. They will look at you if they if they still have a connection to you and like you so i just think this is you know, i know weve talked about how a win for trump would be a hung jury is there any he buddy on this jury . You know, whos not whos going to think for some reason or another that this isnt something they should convict on. Our cam convict on. I dont know. There were all these other characters also. The courthouse today. Alvin bragg showed up in some of the drawings, but there were the senators as well. I mean, how did that affect the vibe in the room for you . Well, itll we they come in like a little power team. Its really like a ballet i know it all by the clicks are their heels. Come in the characters that of the electronics and then here come with prosecutors and then, you know, i mean, then the front row in front of me fills up with avalon bragg and then the lawyers for whoever the witnesses day and then the Prima Ballerina here comes mr. Trump and his entourage. What does he sound like . A man hes pretty quiet himself, but the rest of them are very noise. I noticed he was quietly walked down the hall. Pass me. I didnt even know he was walking past. Yeah. Anderson was looking at this sketch. I was watching you. I was i honestly nobody told. I was like, should leave silent. Somebody there. He was Christine Cornell. It is great thank you. Im talking to you, laura coates. Will be back at 10 00 p. M. Eastern or special coverage continues with Michael Cohens former attorney, landing davis, whos now his legal advisor. What he has to say about todays testimony next here, you can expect to find Crystal Clear audio expansive space more comfort for everyone but we still left room for all the unexpected things. Youll find out. The new 2024 Grand Cherokee lineup g, theres only one its cheap, four by four season right now, get the 2024 the Grand Cherokee starting at 38,290 msrp visit cheap. Com for details hi, guys. Bill. You look great. Now that i have inspire, im free from struggling with the math ask in the Host Ions Buyers of sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with a click of this button where you go. Im going to get inspired. Maren morris view Important Safety Information. 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