Transcripts For CNNW Trump 20240703

Central steam and special coverage of Donald Trumps Criminal Trial continues now and you are looking a lot pictures down inside 100 Centre Street behind me today, we expect to drama filled de, with important stakes for megarian, go a long way in determining of donald from gets convicted in ten days, 16 of trial right now, the former prisoners motorcade is on route to the courthouse. Once trump arrives in, court gets underway here, we expect the people to call the man whose evolve from protector to trump pariah, To Trump Prosecution witness Michael Cohen. Im interested. Cooper, new york. And then im jake tapper in y shoots and uci and you are wanting special cnn live coverage of Donald Trumps Hush Money Cover Up Trial Today the man who bent the truth and broke the law for his his former boss, the former president goes on the stand. Michael dean cohen the former trump fixer and lawyer whose imposed trumps will on whatever he could bullying dealing and lawyering his way into getting trump whatever trump wanted. That allegedly includes buying the silence of Stormy Daniels, the Adult Film Star and director, who claimed she had sexual encounter with trump in 2006, and then was paid to keep quiet about the tryst in 2016. Today, cohen tells his version of that story under oath. Process excuse me, say cohen is the link who can establish the panel and the water of the case that trump said he wanted to make Stormy Daniels go away, and that he wanted it done to save his chances to win the 2016 election. Trumps attorneys well of Course Cast Cohen in quite a different light. Its expected defense to accuse cohen of being a litany of things that a liar, a thief, and extortionists to devise and then freelance the Stormy Daniels scheme to line his own pockets. They will also portray him as a disgruntled former employee hellbent on bringing down donald trump. However, for he can cnns team of reporters and producers inside the courtroom, courthouse are going to bring you constant updates to capture all the drama from this de of testimony. But first, anderson back to you when new york jake, thanks your much. Im here with cnns paula reid. Paula, you have been covering all of these cases for longtime. What kind of a witness . I mean what do we know how Michael Cohen will do on the stand based on other trials hes been involved with no one knows. And ive talked to folks on the prosecution sayyed in cohens camp on the defense side. No one sure exactly how this is going to go, but everyone agrees that the case really rests on what happens while cohen is on the stand, its hard to overstate his significance in all of this exactly. And how complicated a character he is. Now hes really comes with the baggage of previous convictions. Not only election crimes related to this alleged Hush Money Payment, but also line to the irs lying to banks, Lying To Congress that doesnt disqualify you or make you an unhelpful witness is something you need to get around with a bigger challenge for prosecutors, is that Michael Cohen has made pretty much his whole identity over the past seven years attacking the defendant and speaking with sources close to the defense team they theyve been really focused on this, this crossexamination is their defense, but their biggest challenge is, how do you hold down what you put in front of the jury because theres so much material of cohen just attacking trump and their goal is to paint him as a liar who was out for revenge. Revenge is of course, the name of what it was. Books want to play something Michael Cohen told to to her colleague, erin burnett actually, but before we do that, lets go to outside the courthouse. Kristen holmes is standing by. Youve been talking to some of foreign President Trumps legal advisors. What did theyve been telling you . Yeah. I understand. I mean, its becoming increasingly clear to the defense that there is no real smoking gun in terms of evidence and that this case really hinges on Michael Cohen. Now these legal advisors are talking about donald trump. They talk to the lawyers within Donald Trumps a circle that will be in the court room with him. And they say, this is exactly where they want to be in terms of Michael Cohen because of the fact that they are going to try and paint him as a liar to try and say that he is not a credible witness. Now weve talked a lot about the fact that there is a social media post that we know that there is a book podcasts, all of the things that todd blanche, and the defense team had been going through meticulously looking for excerpts looking for examples to show during that crossexamination. But the other thing to keep in mind here is just how far back this relationship with donald trump and Michael Cohen goes. When you talk about what or who knows what Michael Cohen knows, probably everything there is to know about donald trump. Donald trump knows quite a bit about Michael Cohen as well. We talked what about what this testimony might look like. Are they concerned . They said no, they were much more concerned about the first day of Stormy Daniels testimony when they were unsure of how many details would be allowed in, would they be sorted details, obviously, as we saw, it was an or at least embarrassing testimony for donald trump. They feel like they know what Michael Cohen it is going to say here. So tire point of Michael Cohen for the prosecution is to link all of this together. The defense team is ready for that, and its policy. Theyve been preparing crossexamination how do you the prosecution paula is going to address the Credibility Problem here to get out in front of it and they started to do that actually during jury selection, a nod to Michael Cohen, they said, look, were going to put forward some witnesses who have some baggage. Clearly a reference to Michael Cohen. They have to have him walk through his so convictions and then its gonna be interesting to see to what extent they have him talk about the books, the podcast, the endless interviews attacking the defendant. Theres also another issue thats come up, which is the one thing prosecutors have proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and multiple witnesses is that nobody seems to like Michael Cohen. Itll be interesting to see if they have him address the comments that other people like david pecker or hope hicks have made about him, all of which have been critical christian. Do you have any insights about how trump is preparing for today . Whats theyve told him to remain calm, they do not well, the same thing that happened in the middle of what happened with Stormy Daniels where he was Audibly Cursing where the judge had to step in. They want Michael Cohen to be the person that reacts, as paula said, we cannot say exactly how hes going to react. All stand. We have seen different examples, some of them hidden, remaining calm, others than him flying off the handle i know hes a volatile witness with are trying to get from the Donald Trumps side of this is suing him not to react for him not to curse under his bread, to make audible noises or shake his head because i dont want it to show Michael Cohen that hes getting underneath prompt skin because thats what they believe that that Michael Cohen wants a lot once out of this is to get under trump skins where theyre trying to do with him, prepare him for what Michael Cohen might say, but also get him to not react i want to play something bad erin burnett talked about with Michael Cohen back in february about him testifying i had no problem the last time at the new York Attorney generals case of being in the same room as donald. Im not the only one who has said this i felt nothing. Theres no intimidation by him. Hes the one that sitting at the defendants desk not me again. Believe it or not, as everything take it with a grain of salt. Yeah, its strains credulity because clearly Michael Cohen has a lot of feelings. Hes been through a lot life has been based on trump. I mean, yeah, sure. Dr. Like donald trump. Theres a video we keep playing with him, walking through a Hallway Doctrine where hes moving a plant hes dressed identically to him who just the different, you know, i think he has a blue tied trump as a red tie or vice versa. I mean, now that hes turned against him, hes still being his life on him with podcasts, books, and all of that. Yeah. And a lot of emotion, a lot of feelings, a lot out of a tax, personal very personal attacks. And were talking across a multimedia, right, empire that is mostly built around his feelings, most negative about trump. And that is a challenge for prosecutors because all the Defense Attorneys need to do is so some doubt, right. They have to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt if you can. So just a little little bit of doubt about Michael Cohen since he is the only direct link between trump and this alleged conspiracy to falsify Business Records, you could potentially that is what is at the heart of it. Did donald trump know about the falsification of the Business Records . The only person it seems who may directly be able to say that on the sandi Michael Cohen, whether you believe or not . Yes. Allen weisselberg before cfo Trump Organization, could, but he is currently in rikers we learned theres no plan to call him and hes remaining loyal to donald trump. So theyre not calling him because they dont know what he would say exactly. They anticipate that he would plead the fifth wouldnt get them very far. A lot of disagreement among legal scholars about whether that was the right play, not to even try to get him on this sam get him under oath. But right now, this oh, rest of megacolon because no other witness has made a direct link between trump on these allegedly falsified documents. Just play that video. We have because again, its just so interesting to me that when he was working for trump, he pattern himself after not which i guess many people in trumps orbit did. But there is, theyre dressed identically. Its very strange well see what hes wearing today. Jay all right. Anderson, i appreciate it and jamie getting gail, im here with my panel. Jamie ginkgo, you have some new reporting on evidence that might be introduced today and also you have some insights into Michael Cohen State Of Mind as he prepares for what is arguably one of the biggest days of his life. So according to sources familiar in addition to Michael Cohens firsthand Testimony Today, prosecutors may introduce new Documentary Evidence that we have never seen before. We do not know what it is. We do not know if it is a game changer, but im told its an example of the paper trail that goes beyond Michael Cohens testimony. I did speak to Michael Cohen in the last couple of days. He told me that he wasnt nervous, but that he was anxious. He wants to get it over he said that his tone would be repentant, remorseful, that it would be similar to when he appeared before Elijah Cummings in the oversight hearing, he pointed out that when trump annelise jim jordan came after him, he handled it without losing his cool. Well see if he can handle today without losing his cool and john king, Michael Cohens about to take the stand and just under, but maybe about 20 minutes or so. And stakes are huge. This is a case full of unreliable narrators. There is it is difficult to find one person that the, that the common observer can say, oh, this person always tells the truth, but you have a admitted liar testifying about a chronic liar about conduct to deceive people to hide things to live, for people to hide something away, Stormy Daniels to not exactly right. And so did the prosecutors create enough of a predicate to convince the jury, when Michael Cohen did this, he was trusted by donald trump. He may have been doing deceptive things. He may have been doing shady things. But at that moment, he was trumps guy. He was velcroed to trump. Everything he did was for trump at trumps direction. Can Michael Cohen convinced the jury . Well see what whatever new Documentary Evidence. So what other paper trail they have into the prior witnesses, the accountants, the dry testimony, the people who have no grudge against donald trump. Thats the challenge for the prosecutors and the lawyers can help with how this plays out to a jury. And it Michael Cohen was once trust me, been on the Receiving End of Michael Cohen when he was a loyal trumps spokesman, he was belligerent. He was a bully, he was tough and you know what . I actually enjoyed it sometimes because he was so feisty in defending his client, right . Yeah. We do. That happens in campaigns. The question is, can the prosecutors convince the jury that yeah, he has lied a lot, but when he was doing this, he was for donald trump and he didnt do anything big like this without trump telling them to do so. It believe it or not, it has been almost no, its been more than five years since Michael Cohen testified before congress and suggested a publicly that he had flipped it was 2019. So unless my man math is wrong and my son not, im not strong so i just wanted for you, casey, i want to play a little bit about what Michael Cohen testified to before the American People in 2019 he asked me to pay off an Adult Film Star with whom he had an affair. And to lie about it to his wife. Which i did. Mr. Trump directed me to use my own personal funds from a Home Equity Line of credit to avoid any money being traced back to him that could negatively impact his campaign. And i did that too without bothering to consider whether that was improper. Much less whether it was the right thing to do or how would it impact me my family, while the public and i am going to jail in part because of my decision to help mr. Trump hide that payment from the American People before they voted a few days later as exhibit 582, my testimony shows i am providing a copy of a 35,000 check that President Trump personally signed from his personal bank account on August 1 Of 2017 . When he was president of the United States the president of the United States, thus wrote a personal check for the payment of hush money. As part of a criminal scheme to violate Campaign Finance laws so thats the basic charts and i suspect that Behind Closed Doors and courtroom 59, that is what they are going to hear. Right . Well and jamies point, if he says that this is the tone that hes going to take today that gives you a real sense and it is not the guy that was on the other end of the line. Ive been on the other line those conversations to write belligerent, its like a perfect word for what cohen would do in those kinds of situations. I think my big question here is, i feel like as a Campaign Reporter covering donald trump in the years leading up to 2015 and 16 when he ran, you develop hello to very good sense of the role that Michael Cohen played in his orbit, the phone calls you would get how close they were. The fact that he seemed to do everything on trumps behalf and with trump ordering him to do those things has the prosecution made that case and helps the jury understand that in a way that will allow them to believe what when is saying, even though he is an admitted liar lets talk about the dynamics between cohen and trump. Because now having been in that courtroom, i can say it is possible that Michael Cohen could come in and never actually make eye contact with donald trump. He walks in behind him, goes around. Its not the lawyer, whoevers doing the crossexamination or the direct is in front of the witness and trump is is all the way over here. It wont necessarily have any bearing on Michael Cohen, but its hard to imagine a wall. I think thats right. I think both sides are probably counseling their client slash witness, donald trump and Michael Cohen. Stay cool, please. Hes do not turn this into a personal grudge match. Either of you. And im really interested to see which Michael Cohen we, and more importantly, the jury sees today because Michael Cohen is capable, we saw it in that congressional testimony. Hes capable of being quite clear and compelling. He can be a persuasive witness and person, but weve also seen Michael Cohen in his Media Appearances in his tech talking and other, in his other sort of media out Media Appearances, he can be a mess. He could be angry, he can be vengeful, he can be selfcontradictory. I suspect, at least during direct exam, were going to see the former. Were going to see the better version of Michael Cohen. Its a controlled environment on direct examination he will only be questioned by the prosecution. He will know exactly whats coming to jamies new reporting everywhere possible. Theyre going to give him documents to back him up so that the jury has something to base a finding of credibility on. I think the big challenges that might be up to three days of testimony and yes, someone can behave themselves, can follow the directions they were when by their attorney. But once the urine that courtroom for very long time, it can get incredibly stressful. And i think he probably breaks down at some point. All right. Well, were eagerly awaiting this morning for five words. We expect to hear inside court any moment. The people call Michael Cohen, cnn special live coverage of Donald Trumps Hush Money Cover Up, trial continues. Were going to squeeze in this quick break russia were, trying to spy on us. We were spying on them im sorry, frank this is a war. But secret war, secrets and spies, a nuclear game premier sunday, june 2, that ten on c time depress rewind with neutrogena rapid regal repair. 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He is making statement just before going into quartiles im flanked by senator jd vance and Tommy Tebor Ville along with his son, eric trump from dead as he often does, a ran through. Im going to try stump speech, reading from the stack notes, quoting from fox news, defenders before making accusations about the trial unbound to reality. All together, you also quoted from friedrich korea any minute, Michael Cohen is expected to take the Witness Stand lets turn elie honig, whos standing by. What can we expect today from the testimony . Well, anderson, we have arrived at the Pivotal Moment of this trial. The testimony of Michael Cohen, who of course was Donald Trumps longtime attorney and fixer up until he turned against donald trump in 2018, but itll take us back and the jury back to the days before that. Most specifically to the dais in 2016 leading up to the election. Now, Michael Cohen, will detail for the jury how he worked with david pecker, who testified earlier in the trial, and people the National Enquirer, to catch and kill potentially damaging stories against donald trump, including most importantly, Karen Mcdougal and most relevant to the charges here, Stormy Daniels who of course we heard from last week. Now its really important to understand the way the financial transaction work with Stormy Daniels Michael Cohen was right in the middle of that. In fact, hes the only person really who can tell us about both ends of the transaction. Now, we know that Michael Cohen first paid Stormy Daniels 130,000 about a week peak before the 2016 election. Not that money. By drawing down on his own personal home mortgage, we actually heard testimony from a banker who told us about that transaction and then in the year or so that followed donald trump and his Business Entities reimbursed Michael Cohen a total of 420,000 through a series of checks. So michael when cohen is going to walk the jury through both sides of these transactions. Now, as we learned earlier, the prosecutors are going to use documents to backup Michael Cohen wherever they can, including cons of those Reimbursement Checks, some of which were signed by donald trump. We see his recognizable signature there. They will put these in front of Michael Cohen to help bolster his credibility. We also will see this page of handwritten notes which came into testimony two weeks ago, really important because it shows exactly how the internal accounting within the Trump Organization arrived at that 420,000 amount to reimburse Michael Cohen. Now, one really crucial meeting that will heal here, Michael Cohen when testify about during his testimony happened on february 5, 2017, a few weeks after donald trump became president , we heard some warmup for this last week. Michael cohen meets oneonone with donald trump at the white house. Now we do have a sense of what Michael Cohens going to testify about, what was discussed at that meeting because he already told congress about it back in 2019. Lets take a quick listen to that one month into his presidency im visiting President Trump in the oval office for the first time. And its truly awe, inspiring. Hes showing me all around and. Pointing to different paintings. And he says to me something to the effect of dont worry michael, youre january and february Reimbursement Checks are coming they were fedexed from new york and it takes a while for that to get through the white house system. As he promised i received the first check for the reimbursement of 70,000 not long thereafter. Now, when Michael Cohen is done, his direct examination probably after today, he will be crossexamined vigorously, aggressively. The Defense Lawyers for donald trump will point out that Michael Cohen has been convicted of various federal frauds, Campaign Finance violations false statements to congress relating to different testimony than what you just saw, tax fraud in his personal capacity, bank fraud. He has a long record of being convicted of fraud and perjury, also on crossexamination, when it happens, a couple of days, were now you can count on Donald Trumps Team Pointing out Michael Cohen has bias. He hits donald trump, he worked for this tshirt of donald trump in prison just the other day. He has financial motives. Hes profited off his books and other prosecution witnesses including Keith Davidson, have said, Michael Cohen was a liar. So look for that when we get to cross anderson, this will be the Pivotal Moment of this trial. Elie honig, thanks so much. District attorney alvin bragg is in the courtroom as well. Youre back in new york sayyed the courthouse with paula reid and cnns Kaitlan Collins. I was going to bring in former New York State Supreme Court justice Jill Kohn Visor and judge called visor. Youve been watching being judge merchan navigate this trial from, uh, judges respective. What are you going to be watching for today . Well, thats a good question. And from, uh, judges perspective there was a lot to watch first and foremost, will be that to make sure that the prosecutor asks very pointed questions so that Michael Cohen doesnt go off the rails if you would that could be a problem. Hello, im for the prosecution. We know that Michael Cohen has an ax to grind and we know that he doesnt always follow the rules. In fact, we heard last week, judge merchan say Michael Cohen, stand down, youre causing problems for this trial again, judge merchans goal is to make sure the defendant gets the fair trial. That he is entitled to get. So hes gonna be watching very carefully and hes going to be on top of the answers to make sure that Michael Cohen answers precisely the questions that are asked and nothing further. The second thing hes going to be looking for is that the defendant Donald Trumps reaction . Because as weve seen, donald trump in the courtroom before and heard that he has audibly responded. The judge is going to make sure thats kept to a minimum. Thats what hes going to be focusing on today. Have you i mean, youve had a long experience as a judge. I mean, have you seen a lot of defendants who come in with the kind of baggage that Michael Cohen does well yes and no. I know what you mean. Witnesses witnesses, the people of the state of new york when theyre prosecuting a crime, do not get to pick their witnesses wed all love to have rabbis or priests or e moms, but thats not how you end up with an often you end up with people, whether its a gang case or homicide case . People who are in that world who were witnesses to it. So you often have compromised witnesses, witnesses with long rap sheets. Think of the best example probably is sammy the bull, bravado. He admitted to myriad homicides and he was a star witness against john gady and john gadi was convicted. So you do see it its a slightly different baggage because of the hatred that seems palpable between the two men so the answer is yeah, sorry, yes and no kaitlan, it seems to because a lot of the laws that Michael Cohen has said he will say were in were in defense of donald trump. Yeah. What in trumps team will combat that and say, okay, so you committed tax evasion on behalf of donald trump . I dont think so. The thing is Michael Cohen and donald trump. Whats remarkable about this is they have not spoken since the summer of 2018 after Michael Cohens home and office were rated and that was really the last conversation. There was a brief chunk called him to check in after that happened. But really since then that is when the complete deterioration of this relationship began. But another interesting thing that Michael Cohen may testify about and that i imagine prosecutors will ask him about is something that he testified about that people seem to forget from that 2019 testimony on capitol hill, which is that denial that he put out in 2018 of trumps knowledge and reimbursement of the 130,000 dollar. Michael cohen testified that he coordinated that false statement with donald trump and with Allen Weisselberg. And a lot of members of congress didnt really delve into, well tell us about that conversation. What was said, who, whose idea was it . That is an area where Michael Cohen could speak to the knowledge of what happened here and why they were fashioning that false statement. I think as far as how trump handles this we saw how angry he was when Stormy Daniels was in the courtroom. I was in there and he just had this permanent scowl on his lets face the whole time in a way that we havent seen him with other situations. Donald trump is so much more sensitive. Michael cohen that i do think it will be remarkable to see how he handles just being in the same room as them being in his presence i was banned from a white house event when i was covering donald trump because i asked about Michael Cohen when in the oval office and it infuriated Donald Trumps so much that he instructed his aides to not allow me into another event that is the level of sensitivity he as about someone even bring up Michael Cohens name, much less being in the same room as him. The question paula, is, does Michael Cohen have any direct knowledge of what whether or not Donald Trump New again, this Business Record which was marked as a Legal Expense, was inappropriately mark we will testify that yes, they had conversations and they worked out this alleged conspiracy together and that trump was aware that his business was going to sort of whitewash exactly what this money it was four. Now, is that going to be enough of a direct link to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt that trump is guilty of falsifying 34 different Business Records. Thats really clear and thats why Michael Cohens credibility here is so important. Thats why also, judge called visor. Theres been so much detail from prosecutors about how involved donald trump is about his business down to micromanaging. We just heard that testimony from Michael Cohen in which he said that when he was visiting i think the oval office for their first time, trump said to him, you know, detailed how these checks were being brought down by fedex and he was explaining, you know, fedex takes a while to get through the white house. Again, i assume he was telling thats fine too, that not only to inform congress about that moment, but also to point out how detailed donald trump knew even sort of how this these checks from being sent down from new york thats right. The people have to prove the defendants intent, which betrays knowledge and Michael Cohen is the linchpin to explain to the jury precisely the level of knowledge and involvement donald trump had with these Hush Money Payments. The statute youll remember falsifying Business Records in the first degree, the class ii nonviolent Felony Offense requires that the defendant intended to defraud by making a false entry in a Business Record for the purpose of committing another crime, which of course that other crime doesnt need to be proved Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. But the first part does, and Michael Cohen is essentially the thread that puts together or shows and exposes at least allegedly the defendants knowledge and intense in terms of those 34 allegedly false entries judge scott, adviser, appreciate your time. Thank you so much thank you in terms of Testimony Today, i mean, its like it will just be proud execution, sam, this Prosecution Testimony will likely go on for several days. Yeah, i would expect it to go at least through today. Well, into tamara could take even two days. This is the most important part of the case. They were preparing with cohen for over a year and im told that the crossexamination will go about as long if not longer than the direct examination. So i expect this whole week will be the testimony and crossexamination of Michael Cohen, and it could even go into next week. This is only a threeday week, but really this is the defense ive reported how theyre only going to call a few a few witnesses when the defense has their chance. But this is their defense. The crossexamination of Michael Cohen. Well, and you just want to also note that trump has a lot of political allies in the room. Today. There have been days where hes only had one or two people there. Hes got several elected officials, senator jd vance, Tommy Tech Rule that we saw also, congresswoman nicole malia takas the Attorney General for iowa, is in the room. I mean, he has got a bevy of political allies who were in there, which speaks to how also those are the people that theyre often sending out on television to defend him and to talk talk about this. But as with a crossexamination, obviously, trumps team, what theyd been preparing for, they know what michael coe what is likely going to say. Theyre going to be watching very closely to see how he handles this but Michael Cohen is not untested on crossexamination. I mean, if you watch the testimony before the House Oversight committee, jim jordan was the Ranking Member on that mark meadows was the chair of the House Freedom caucus. These people i rewatched it this weekend. They grilled him at length and Michael Cohen, lady davis later said that when they did the first murder board, basically testing it out, Michael Cohen, blew a gasket and lost his mind is lindy davis was calling him a liar at the end of it, lady davis, it was his attorney and said congrats by republicans will be highfiving you if that how you act at that hearing tomorrow. And Michael Cohen understood the message. And so its not like theyre going to be surprised by the crossexamination. Hear the question is how Michael Cohen handles that . And how it appeals to the jury. There must be a fun weekend watching that. Yeah, i really want to hang out with you. Lets take a short break the Trump Hush Money Trial gavel to gavel coverage, the way only cnn can bring it to you, legal insight, expert analysis, and realtime updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows. 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He is a key prosecution witness obviously, having worked for donald trump for so long, and then obviously turned against him some time before his congressional testimony in 2019, Michael Cohen has been called to the stand and we will be bringing you all of that all the details as they come in Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger is going to conduct the direct examination of my for call and we also have some new photographs of donald trump from inside the courtroom. He is looks like hes in a mood so let me bring in lanny davis right now who used to represent Michael Cohen and atlanta. Thanks for being here. Michael cohens entered the courtroom you said can you spoke to him last night tell me about his mindset testifying. This is one of the most important days of his life. Well, much better than the night before he faced jim jordan and mark meadows and the republicans because he has a judge is presiding in that particular venue. There were no rules and it was all attack. You walked into a room and on the wall was behind jim jordan, liar. Liar, pants on fire. And the night before, we did try to provoke him over and over again to being called a liar. So hes going to do very well today, last night, he and i joked about whether this will be worse than what he faced with jim jordan and mark meadows. But i do think his mindset is tell the truth tell it calmly, and remember everything he says. He knows. I know because i was with Susan Hoffinger for almost a year. All right. Its fully corroborated everything. Although cohen is testifying pursuant to a subpoena, it says thats even if hes cooperative, hes testifying pursuant to a subpoena in the case of the congressional testimony, we decided until chairman cummings no subpoena. We under oath, but voluntarily trump looked up at cohen after he walked by the Defense Table. Were also told that when cohen. Walked in. He is wearing a dark suit, white shirt, light pink tie. His face was facing forward, his eyes are darting around the Gallery Cohen right now is giving his family background. Hes been married for going on 30 years. He says back in 2019 when Michael Cohen testified before congress he said that donald trump doesnt give firm Instructions Per say. He said mr. Trump did not direct directly, told me to lie to congress in 2017. Thats not how we operate. So he doesnt give you questions. He doesnt give you orders. He speaks in a code and i understand and the code because ive been around him for a decade, is that going to be his Testimony Today in terms of how this Hush Money Scheme was allegedly hatched. Well, in general, yes, that will be a testimony because that is always the testimony about sorry to interrupt. Michael cohen says, actually, i really didnt want to be a lawyer. My grandmother wanted let me to be a lawyer. My family is comprised of doctors and lawyers, cohen says landing, im sure you can relate it in any in any case just for the record, my father was a dentist. Okay no. The way that Organized Crime cases are tried is you never get the Godfather Ordering somebody to commit a crime. And one of the prosecutors, early on reminded me that this prosecutor had convictions have Organized Crime members and his chief witnesses. Those of you who are prosecutors, ive never been one always reminded me that the witnesses theyre using have checkered background. Some of them involving murder and worse. Yeah. I just said i wanted to go to wall street. My grandmothers like thats not going to happen, but i hear what youre saying in terms of like when you have when you have trials, often, if youre going after a criminal, youre also the witnesses or people who have been in the room where these activities were happening, elliott, youre nodding . No, i agree. And he very well may tell the truth throughout his testimony, and it very well may be will be supported by documents and other witnesses. The best thing, however defendant, a Defense Attorney, can say on crossexamination as when you pled guilty to perjury, where you lying that de or the day before, they believe you today or should we believe things he said in another landing, so i respect this man so much, but juries have common sense. Youve argued to jurors more than i have the common sense is is this witness credible . Are you lying then align now, is it trick . The question is, is testimony backed up by document and tricks work trips, work. If you if you assume jurors dont use their common sense and theres objective checks. My point. I think youll agree. So doctors can just for one second, cohen is testifying right now that he invested in taxi medallions. Thats the Licensing Process of for taxi cabs to new york when a client moved to israel and he gave me the opportunity to buy 50 interest in a company. And this elie honig has to do with a separate guilty plea that Michael Cohen made, having to do with alleged criminality or admitted criminality row, having nothing to do with donald trump exact. And this is i guess this is the prosecution trying to get this out there on their own terms . Yes. This is Michael Cohens preach trump or separate from trump legal existence. He was involved in the Taxicab Medallion Business in new york city, which used to be very lucrative now with cher programs, its not lucrative at all two of the things Michael Cohen pled Guilty Der Dramatic Moment and going on right now for the prosecution is asking cohen if he sees trump in the courtroom. Weve been told the donald trump, as is his want is looking straight ahead in his seat, not to the right where Michael Cohen were the witness. Thats cohen leans to his right than stands up and identifies trump in court. Thats him wearing a blue and white tie. So its a dramatic moment. Its a common moment and criminal cases, the reason Michael Cohen stands up there, by the way, is not to be the dramatic. Its because you have to stand up in that courtroom in order to see everything. You cant really see on over the judges immense, right . I mean, obviously, im not blaming judge merchan, but that is a wildly ego maniacal desk to have where you can witness, cant even see if trump eyes. Eyes appear closed. As cohen is identifying him. Obviously this does what his attorneys have told him to do be calm. Look ahead. Dont take the bait, dont let this get to you. Yes. So far, 14 minutes and theyre keeping calm, both of them, Michael Cohen pled guilty back in 2018 to federal charges, including Campaign Finance relating to Stormy Daniels pay off, including Lying To Congress and then separately having nothing and to do with donald trump, including bank fraud and tax fraud, both of which related to his Taxicab Medallion Business. And as personal finances. If i could pose a question to lanny davis because i think it goes to the heart of the matter here. Michael cohen is speaking very evenly with a calm, even tone, so that would be like what we heard in his congressional testimony when he it was so well prepared by lanny davis, please continue. When it comes to the key piece of testimony about what Michael Cohen and donald trump discussed at that white house meeting in february of 2017, is michael going to say there was explicit communication with donald trump . Were going to structure it this way. Were going to do it to make it look like legal fees. So it hides the Stormy Daniels payment or as michael going to go back to the mob boss testimony, which hes given before and said, well, it was more of a wink, wink, nod, nod. He told me do what you gotta do. So the one thing im not going to do is predict what will based on your conversations with them. And based on my conversations, i will say to you that Michael Cohen has already publicly testified that donald trump knew that what he was paying for was to be reimbursed for a crime that Michael Cohen went to prison for, that Rudy Giuliani, he said on television, whereas reimbursements, and theres never a dispute that they were for legal fees thats what hell testify. And to your point, ellie, when you have ambiguity placed in front of the jury, went well, it was theres an insinuation made by the defendant witness that has credibility issues is going to be tougher for the jury to believe. Now, i dont doubt that hes telling the truth and is supported by documents and might even be supported by the testimony of other witnesses. But you cant tell me that prior convictions, particularly for lying, dont play in front of you. Weve all lost for Michael Cohen is now describing how he began working for trump when he lived at Trump World Tower and jamie getting go obviously, the prosecution is trying to get out on their own terms. Some of the negative information about Michael Cohen that is going to come out from the Defense Attorneys, such as the other guilty pleas that had nothing to do with donald trump or his role with trump. Cohen is explaining how he helped orchestrate a coop board takeover at Trump World Tower to resolve an issue which he says was to mr. Trump satisfaction and i believe that is the moment that donald trump first saw this young man with a glint in his eye named Michael Dean Cohen this, this is, this is a gogetter there. This guy, this kid can do things. So a couple of things i loved the lead of r cnn. Com, peace that our team wrote nobody has anything nice to say about Michael Cohen. But the prosecutors have put that out there in order to inoculate him because they know thats whats coming. Im also not sure that people understand how long Michael Cohen worked for donald trump. This was not just some casual relationship. He worked for him. Yeah. Cohen says he helped trump with legal issues after that, when asked if he got paid for any of that work at the time he says, no man, thats Donald Trumps favorite fee. None. Right. Three. So he worked for him for ten years in his memoir, Michael Cohen says that he was quote, trumps designated veg. Think the two of you been on the Receiving End of a phone calls. Cohen says trump offered him a job when he met trump at the office to inquire about 100,000 bill for work. He did for trump entertainment resorts, probably seeking compensation. Theyre goes to trump and then trump offers him a job, maybe figured out it would be cheaper to hire him. Then to do these billable hours. He asked me whether or not i was happy. My sleepy old firm cohen says in a preview of an attack, donald trump would make on Somebody Else years later. So some things then asked whether to cohen wanted to work for him. And i was honored. I was taken by surprise. Cohen says, so i think you cannot underestimate how much Michael Cohen liked working for donald trump. This is the man who was said ill take a bullet for him. People who know both of them have told me that they thought Michael Cohen would be the last person to turn on trump. Were going to hear as The Other Side of his lying and what hes Michael Cohens testifying right now. He offered me the position of executive Vice President of Trump Organization, and Special Counsel to donald j. Trump, whereby would only answer to him and i would work on issues that were of concern to him, which is interesting because that suggests this guy is somebody who can help me. And i only want him reporting to me and hell be my guy. And thats donald trump is always as president expressed the desire to have a person like that as Attorney General he usually talks about roy cohn or air colder, but thats the kind of guy he wants a very loyal one. If he gets elected in november, no doubt he will have someone like that as Attorney General. Trump never paid him for the bill for trump entertainment resorts, by the way, that hundred thousand dollars bill was never was never paid. He asked me if i wanted to get fired in the first day. If i asked about the bill cohens as well, smiling at the memory goes straight to the question of why Michael Cohen did not go rogue and come up with this. He knew donald trump stiff people. So could Michael Cohen is looking right ahead of him at Susan Hoffinger, the prosecuting attorney attorney, while testifying, he has not looked over to his left to the jury just a couple of things were going to hear. He wants told the judge i felt it was my duty to cover up his meaning, Donald Trumps dirty deeds, and that hes going to say he lied in court, he did it in the service of donald trump one thing to remember, so go ahead. Well, just cohen is saying that he never went back to his old job after he accepted that position at trump, the Trump Organization, not even that day. He says, he goes in from his firm four with 100,000 bill for services rendered. Trump says, how do you like to work for me hes incredibly honore. He doesnt he never gets that bill paid and he never even goes back to his old job trump sent over some Trump Organization employees to pack up his stuff. Cohen says cohen says he never went back and hes lean back right now. Trump in his chair with his eyes eyes closed as cohen is testifying, who did you report to at the time, hoffinger asks mr. Trump, cohen says, who else . I mean, this is the beginning of amino, as jamie said, when you say he liked to work for donald trump, i mean, he he acted as though he was donald trump personified. Well, he also he did not work under there was a General Counsel at Trump Organization and colon just testified he did not work under the General Counsels office. He was his own free floating rogue attorney working for donald trump, his roy cohn, as you say, which i think sets the stage for what were going to hear. About how these payments were made, the way in which Michael Cohen was acting was treated as though he was acting. He really was and youve heard this from some of the other witnesses as well. They were trying to buttress this this argument that Michael Cohen was always speaking for donald trump and that he was not a freelancer. And it might support the notion that these were not actually Legal Expenses based on the fact that they probably were not run through the General Counsels office at the Trump Organization. Its just interesting how many times mr. Trump comes up, because if youve been on the Receiving End of coverage with Michael Cohen, mr. Trump comes up a lot. The f bomb comes up a lot. And then occasionally some other words its mostly mr. Thomas the out of trauma and car. Are you doing him wrong . Cohen just said he would he would renegotiate bills on behalf of mr. Trump but cohen recall calls an example in which he said they received an invoice from a law firm. Hes in the middle telling an anecdote right now, and hes basically describing how he is Donald Trumps right hand. So donald trump i dont know if he would go to the General Counsel and say this. Their billing me here, see if you can renegotiate it. But if he if he did do that, they werent doing it to his satisfaction and Michael Cohen what do it to a key point in the sense that trump wants then i ability if something illegal was done, i didnt have any direct role in it. And so as you mentioned before, there is a General Counsel, so perhaps its some enterprises, a Political Campaign of business. Theres a Protect The Boss group right . That protects the boss. Majdi colon is was donald velcro to donald trump . It was the boss protecting the boss is what hes trying to prove. So he didnt believe that the invoice in question was fair, reasonable, justified. So hed give me the task of renegotiating a specific bill cohen said, Trump University fell into trouble and approximately 50 vendors had not been paid cohen says here, we are going through the anecdotes showing basically, well explain what you think the prosecution is trying to establish. So weve already seen hope hicks testified to this. She dismissed that cohen paid hush money on his own. It would go against his character. And heres the context. Didnt like to pay. Trump didnt like to pay. So if he paid, it must be a big can i give you one quick . I asked michael early on whats the most disgusting thing that you did for donald trump . His wife and his children did not like his work for don job. I said whats the thing that offended your family the most . He said there was a small vendor in Atlantic City and a bill for under 100,000 hadnt been paid for over two or three years. He needed the money. He went to mr. Trump and said, using his expression, mr. Jump, mr. Trump, this is a small business. Its a plummer hundred thousand dollars. And trump said, pam, 0. 20 on the dollar. But mr. Trump, 0. 20 on the dollar. Thats what mr. Cohen and this is exactly the story hes telling right now because there were 50 vendors that had not been paid by Trump University cohen at presumably at trumps instructions, offered to pay them 20 of their invoices, 0. 20 on the dollar all but two of the vendors accepted the offer and he had them paid within 48 hours, accepting that renegotiated bill he asked about the other two that didnt accept. Michael cohen said they just went away meaning did you pay them the prosecuting attorney hopkins youre asks no, maam. Cohen says. So it was basically if you did business with donald trump, according to this telling and according to your story he would offer you ultimately 0. 20 on the dollar. And if you didnt take that, you would get nothing. Michael cohen says he would go into Trumps Office and tell him when he he accomplished a goal. I mean, this this this testimony rings true to what Michael Cohen has told you personally. And in fact, it was stronger than that. And i said to him, how could you possibly do something so evil, a small business. Why did you carry that evil water for donald trump for ten years, michael yeah. He just simply said i am ashamed of myself. Well, and cohen just talked about how he would go into Trumps Office, anderson cooper, to tell him after he had accomplished a goal and he said in his own testimony that he did this to quote, really to obtain credit so that he understood that again, i was accomplishing what he wanted and cohen says he felt like he was quote, On Top Of The World when trump said his work was fantastic, or great, anderson yeah. Jake, i mean here with Kaitlan Polar read, its fascinating. I mean, cohen clearly looks up to donald trump is honored to work there and is willing to be a terrible person with small businesses, with contractors essentially cheating them out of money that they are owed and he does it because it makes them he says he felt On Top Of The World when trump would praise him. Yeah, all that just for that little pat on the head, that little kudo. Its really speaks to their relationship, right . This is very asymmetrical power dynamic. I think other folks have testified that members of the trump family didnt think much of Michael Cohen. He did not enjoy broad respect within the Trump Organization. Now, interestingly, trumps attorney, todd blanche, hes sitting to trumps right and he is lean forward and he is watching cohen closely, blanches. Of course, expected to conduct a crossexamination. And one of the challenges for blanche is you want to go so i can to the satisfaction of the client to undercut his credibility. But you also dont want to go too hard and throw any sympathy. Cohens way. So he is likely studying him right now and preparing caring for his cross, going to testify now about the different problems hed solve for for donald trump again, essentially, working very closely oneonone with donald trump at the behest of trump and Michael Cohen knows the song and dance when he went before Congress Even testified about all the terrible things that trump did. I mean, he called him a racist. He said derogatory comments that he repeated derogatory Comment Trump and said to him, Michael Cohen would acknowledge and still i continued to work for him for essentially what hes saying there. This transactional relationship that he clearly benefited from but the jury is also going to hear from Michael Cohen about everything that he did for trump, not just on legal matters or invoices. He testified to congress that he made an estimated 500 threats ill Donald Trumps behalf when trump was running for reelection, Michael Cohen reached out to his high school, to the colleges that he went to and threaten them with legal work for donald trump. He was basically threatening and Michael Cohen is saying if reporting angered trump that youd either express their need to redact or take the article down, or we would fall an action again since then, he went after schools, media outlets, anyone who would say anything damaging about donald trump says, i would say so when he was asked if he was aggressive, not all the time period, often wow this was their relationship, but i think this could actually be powerful for the jury to hear from Michael Cohen. Everything that he did on Donald Trumps behalf. Are there. Hes aggrieved and you went to prison and he lied to congress, but he also did work for him for a decade. There is something about a witness who is willing to expose how awful they were in front of a jury. Juries i would assume would take that into account. The jurys watching intently, following between the processor and Michael Cohen as he testifies summer taking notes, phone says interacting with the press was a portion of his job. He has to acknowledge his past behavior because other witnesses have already talked about it to the jury. That was there reduction to Michael Cohen . Theyre are likely familiar with him right from press reports, but thats how hes been introduced in this case. Now, cohen said he pushed positive stories about trump within the media. He has to atone not only for his previous conduct, but also for his guilty pleas. His comments about trump. He has to be the one to introduce all of this to the jury. Now, he has no choice but to get out in front of this and a cop to this otherwise credibility is going to be shot. And Kristen Holmes if there was an article that caused him displeasure, i would speak to them. Cohens office was ultimately moved about 50 or 60 feet from Trumps Office in trump tower. Again this is all critical to try to establish what the nature of their release Patient Ship Christian was with each other anderson and one of the things i think is the most interesting of all of this is going back to that line where he said he would feel like it was On Top Of The World just for that small pat on the back and he was willing to do anything for the former president as youve noted that the idea that hes putting out there that you might have done all of these terrible things he has to do that remember what weve heard from some of these other witnesses, essentially 1. 1 witness saying that donald that Michael Cohen was sad, he might not get his christmas bonus at one point. Another witness saying they told mr. Trump michael code would do anything for you. He cares about you so much. Theyre going to have to paint out exactly who Michael Cohen is because of what we have heard over and over again from these various witnesses. But the other part of this that i want to point out, we talked a lot about Donald Trumps relationship with todd blanche with his legal team. Now, when you talk about what Michael Cohen was doing, thats the kind of stuff that donald trump believes that an attorney should be doing even though it wasnt legal action, even though wasnt in court necessarily, he believes that they should be out there aggressive strong, arming people that is not exactly the kind of attorneys he has now, we as a court attorneys, people who are going to follow the law go through these questions. Theyve had this practice before. Theyre not the Michael Cohens of the world, but that is donald trump wants, by I Hidden Side by his sayyed this kind of rabid bulldogs. What were seeing now is what exactly this relationship look like and just how close they really work cohen said hed speak to trump and person or on a cell phone is from never had an Email Address. Cohen says also one of our observers in the corridor saying that to Michael Cohen is more visibly relaxed. Now on the stand, occasionally chuckling at things. He says, this the cohen said hed get trump through others like rhona graff or Keith Schiller. We have not heard from Keith Schiller, the body guard, obviously in this Trial Run A Graph has testified. But to your point, caitlin me, he is experienced on the Witness Stand. He has gone through a lot of this before. Right. And it is completely fair to raise questions on his credibility, how hell do under cross examine hey, should we dont know Michael Cohen certainly has had no shortage of things to say about donald trump over the last several years. He just is experienced in this. I mean, he went up against trumps allies. You hardly any davis saying they were joking, which is going to be worse. The crossexamination by todd blanche or the crossexamination he got from House Republicans who were the fiercest advocates for donald trump at that time. For instance, of trump, he knows too many people who have gone down as a direct result of having emails that prosecutors can you use in the case, having clarifies with cohen going down, you mean getting in some sort of trouble . Yes, maam. This is the other thing that michael going to be able to testify to is weve talked about the documents and the direct links to donald trump is donald trump has a history of not using email for what . Just sided. They are. He can speak to that. He also just started texting maybe a yearandahalf ago. Donald trump never texted before that. And so that was kind of a famous thing. Hell also be able to testify about the way trump conducted himself, that he wouldnt directly give an order, but he would indirectly do it. And that is what Michael Cohen says was the issue with these Stormy Daniels payment i think another point is the way that Michael Cohen came into trumps orbit is he was willing to do whatever trump asked him to do. That is still the similar tactic that trump uses with hiring attorneys to this day. He basically has people who joined his legal team because theyre willing to do whatever he asked them to do. Thank coincide as you didnt need an appointment to see trump in his office . Again, the more jurors believed that cohen had this very intimate relationship with trump and they shared things that they didnt share with other people the more they may believe what cohen says about whatever trump told him about how this billing would be done, mr. Mr. Trump had an Open Door Policy remember, jurors have only heard horrible things about Michael Cohen leading up to this, they heard that he was the fixer because he broke things first, that he was prone to exaggeration, that he was a bully to Stormy Daniels is publicist that Keith Davidson thought he was a jerk. They have a picture in their mind of a not nice guy. So the idea that he isnt their visibly relax answering these questions laughing it himself as hes telling me stories, is clearly part of Michael Cohen strategist said on the stand that it was part of his job to keep trump in form. There are requirement when you were tasked you with something, he would then say keep me informed, let me know whats going on and come and says of trump again, implying that Michael Cohen would not be out freelancing stuff that he would be checking in with trump repeatedly yeah. And underscoring what several witnesses have said, which is that trump was involved in everything, right . He knew everything that was going on at the Trump Organization down to the paperclips on the files, but i also called the out the Geoff Mcconney testified that all of that changed in 2017. This is when these documents were allegedly falsified and Michael Cohen did visit the white house so he will testify to that meeting that he had with trump in february 2017. That is really going to be one of the most critical parts of his testimony. Now, he says, as soon as you had a result an answer you could go straight back to him and tell him, especially if it was a matter that was troubling to him. Of course, foreshadowing the Hush Money Payments that are going to be a great significance. To then candidate trump. So all of this setting up what will happen later on during the time of question in 2016, it is interesting to hear because again, this is unusual that somebody would be communicating so closely with an attorney on some of the monday and details of something. If the jury believes this, its really does go to this idea of Michael Cohen would know what was in trumps mind about certain things hoffinger asked Whether Trump was a micromanager by the work that the Trump Organization . Yes, maam. Cohen. And this is all backed up also by his testimony to congress. I mean, this is exactly what he testified to them that he was upended puncher and a micromanager and that donald trump wanted to be kept abreast of everything and its also something that people who worked for him white house and testified do hope and Madeleine Westerhout to the level of detail of things that he paid attention to it. So obviously theyll seek to do that to give this impression to the jurors that even if there isnt that trump was the one who selected the menu option, that this was Legal Expenses that hes still was connected to it because he was involved in every conversation especially about things that he cared about. It was fantastic working for him, especially genitive ten years and amazing experience and many, many ways, cohen says jake, whats interesting, of course this goes against so many accounts of people who worked with trump in the white house in terms of him not showing interest in intelligence briefing, but it clearly the testimony here is when it came to matters of the pocket book, when it came to matters that affected the Trump Organization, he was very involved. Cohen says are a great times, there were several less than grade times, but for most part, i enjoy the responsibilities that were given to me, jay. Yeah. And cohen says he would address trump as a boss and mr. Trump would to hear Michael Cohen tell It Working For Donald Trump was fun and one of the thrills of his life he got, he acknowledges that there were less than great times as well, but he also talks about the great times joining us now to new attorneys to add to our law firm George Conway and Tim Parlatore george, what concerns might you have as somebody who thinks that donald trump is guilty of crimes you im talking about what what concerns might you have about Michael Cohens credibility . And are they surmountable . Well, the concern i have is that he you know, hes got to keep his cool i dont think i mean, i think the thing about this is that the about whats happened in this case is the the, government has essentially pre corroborated Michael Cohen and a lot of ways. So the burden on cohen and the burden on the prosecution on how it elicits testimony from cohen is reduced at the same time because i dont really see what the alternative scenario that the process that the defense has to will be arguing is an alternative explanation of this series of facts i dont see what that is yet i think that theyre not i dont think theyre going to be able to do much damage showing that cohen is lying about the facts of this case that said theyre going to try to show that he has lied everywhere else. In fact, the prosecution getting that out right here Susan Hoffinger with the District Attorneys team saying asking cohen whether he would sometimes lie for his then boss, donald trump . Yes, maam cohen says parlatore, as somebody on The Other Side, perhaps of your view of this case what do you think of what jordan just said . The idea that so much of this has been pre corroborated, that that takes some of the pressure off the prosecution in terms of the credibility of Michael Cohen. Cohen says, by the way, its fair to describe him as having been trumps fixer. The only thing that was on my mind, cohens does was to accomplish the task, to make him happy. Well, heres the problem is what theyve done is theyve pre corroborated a lot of the surrounding facts and you got to remember this is a case where most of the facts are not in dispute. But the key disputed facts are the elements of the crime. And thats the part that they have no corroboration for as to what was trumps personal knowledge . Knowledge of those specific entries and what was his intent behind those specific entries as far as concealing something else. And so all of the kind of atmospherics, yeah, those are corroborated, but those are not really in dispute. Its the elements of the crime that theres really not any corroboration for other than Michael Cohens testimony right now, prosecutors are going going over cell phones and land lines that cohen used while at Trump Organization im im assuming that this is to show phone calls, although the content of the causes is not going to be introduced as evidenced at least in a factual way. Cohen says he consented to a request from the District Attorneys Office to turn over his cell phones obviously, we all remember when the raid on Michael Cohens office happened way back in what and what a shock that was anyway thats it was a shock at the time and it prestage so much to rate an Attorneys Offices wrong. Right. Strong move. Given the attorneyclient privilege. And that was the break right. Between donald trump and Michael Cohen, like theyre really heartbreak came around. That raid of his offices and it does also kind of give you some of the it seems like were going for some of the texture and the way that a cone interacted that havent focused in on the fact that donald trump didnt have, i guess anderson and kaitlan, were talking about it, didnt have an Email Address the piece of this that it seems like youre alluding to that they really need to prove is were probably going to hear Michael Cohen say, i told donald trump about these payments. And there doesnt seem to be anyone else in the system who can say that they were there. What we do have is this set of atmospherics that it seems to me la, that, thats what the prosecutors are going through, right . Thats exactly right. I see three themes emerging so far to bring everyone up to speed here we are 45 minutes or so into the direct examination. First of all, donald trump was deep we involve in the spending he would review these invoices. He would say no pain with 20 . We can see where thats going to come into play with Stormy Daniels later. Second of all, Michael Cohen exists outside the formal structures of trump world. When he started, he wasnt formally with the Trump Organization later with the campaign. You all know he wasnt technically with the campaign and in the white house she was never technically with the white house, yet there he is always sort of circulating around, doing Donald Trumps bidding. Third, the prosecutors have begun to, as we say, pull the sting to front the fact that yes, when youre with donald trump, you lied, you bullied that all has to come out on direct examination before the Defense Lawyers get to it on cross. And now theyre setting the baseline hi here for some of these phones, because obviously phone records, recordings and texts are going to become crucial lace. So weve been talking about the Body Language and the personal dynamics between Michael Cohen and dayana donald trump, which are of course significant and were told that Michael Cohen, his eyes are occasionally darting over in the direction of trump. Cohen is saying he was quote, spending a significant amount of time with mr. Trump and trump ultimately agreed to his Contact Numbers being sent to cohens cell phone. That way when he traveled, if he needed to get somebody on the phone, cohen had the number George Conway, the idea that Michael Cohens phones include all while Donald Trumps contacts. So that cohen can do whatever trump wants him to do when theyre on the road. Whats the significance of that going to be . Do you think it just shows that he was in fact the fixer . I mean, he was the guy he handed the dirty jobs do the jobs that he wasnt willing to give to other people more than 30,000 contacts in that Phone Account according to record. Can you imagine turning that kind of information over to someone else like i guess ive not done donald trump to do that, he trusts him, right . Its an incredible amount of privacy youre giving up to somebody. Heres attorney Susan Hoffinger saying, do you know someone named david pecker . And Michael Cohen says, i do. Thats a presumably one of the contacts in his phone, david pecker, the former Publishing Magnate of Tabloid Enterprises such as the National Enquirer, which is tangentially part of this case. John king, given the Karen Mcdougal payments and the other caching and kill episode with the doorman alleging falsely that donald trump had syrota child out of marriage. Cohen says he knew pecker before he knew trump, that Mutual Friends and met at a function on long island. So youre trying to prove that number one remember the david peckers testimony . I dont want anything to do with a payment to i think he said porn star, id say Adult Film Actress. You can choose your the term thats where we are. This case requires a lot of conversations taking you to places youd rather not go but youre trying to prove that this was not a oneoff. This happened many times that there were that there were a group of people who helped donald trump clean up messes and pecker still there trying to peckers testimony was that this happened in other cases. And so theyre trying to say so do not be surprised that donald theres a lot of bad actors around donald trump. People you might not think are great people, people you might have to babysit your children or sit in Church Or Temple with. But this is what happened. Theyre just trying to introduce all these characters and the connections between them. And so Michael Cohen just testified that sometimes he would communicate with david pecker using the signal encrypted app cohen, depending upon the matter, sometimes we thought that encryption and not having the event traceable would be beneficial. And just for folks out there who dont have signal, we should note alina habba, the other attorney for trump, is sitting in the front row, appears to be taking notes signal is basically a way so that you can either text or Phone Somebody and supposedly it cannot be penetrated. And if you set the thing to disappear, the record of it just vanishes forever. So you cannot, you will, there will not be a record of you having spoken to david becker, unlike all of the north, theres not an email just go back to something central in Donald Trumps life. And that is money. And that weve heard 0. 20 on the dollar. What happened here was the opposite of 0. 20 on the dollar weve already heard testimony that in fact in paying Michael Cohen he doubles it or gets it to where it would cover taxes which is against everything donald trump likes to do. But also evidence of covering it up, but its interesting, its 300 something cents on the dollar, right . Because Michael Cohen lays out 130,000 for Stormy Daniels, ultimately gets repaid 420,000. I think its exactly what the prosecution is going to argue. I think the Defense Sayyed argument is going to be Michael Cohen saw a chance to make some money. He had his hand in the cookie jar. He helped themselves to this structure where he made a lot more money and he did it without donald trump. Of course, being in on it with donald trump willingly overpay by that much given what we know about them. I can see that argument either way so just sign the checks mr. Parlatore, let me just ask you because one of the things you note is that the only person who is going to testify about the alleged crime, the falsification of the Hush Money Payments and hoffmans yours, right . Is saying right now to Michael Cohen prior to mr. Trump announcing his run for the presidency, are you aware of ami thats the tabloid . Kingdom ever paying to suppress Stories Cohen said that, no, maam, heres how often youre trying to establish that this was done for his president ial race, not for his personal life cohen says he also communicated with dylan howard, who was the editor in chief of the National Enquirer, who worked for pecker. But were talking about Allen Weisselberg, whos at rikers right now, the former cfo for trump he theoretically could testify. I assume that he is just indicated that he wont hes an interesting witness because if they bring him, i think everybody is wondering what hes going to say, which side hill take . Theres nothing preventing the prosecution from bringing him in except for fear of what hes going to say, he for fear he might contradict. Correct. Because he completed the fifth, but they could give him a grant of immunity. Theres nothing preventing them from bringing them in. And so if they dont bring him in i think that the defense has a very strong argument to get whats called a missing Witness Charge, where the jury, the judge will instruct the jury that the fact that he was not called is something that they can hold against the prosecutors and presume that his testimony would have been unfavorable to their case. George, what do you think that there was unfavorable . It would been unfavorable. Why why doesnt trump column and the reason for that is because the constitution says, you dont have to. The defense does not have to put on the case. They dont have an affirmative duty. The prosecution must prove the case Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. So no, theres no missing Witness Charged that the defense didnt call it missing Witness Charge only goes against the prosecutor, by the way. Theres a Debate Playing Out In Court very much like the one we just saw with kim and george prosecutors are worried rightly because i hate missing Witness Charges, right . You dont want the jury being instructed what i just said, right . Defense lawyers love and prosecutors hate them. Prosecutors wanted to put Allen Weisselbergs severance agreement with the trump org in evidence, so they could say, luck. He was paid. I think its 2 he had a nondispersive in agreement i dont think that can overcome a subpoena, but prosecutors want to be able to explain to the jury and the judge said, no, im not letting you put that agreement in. He also my understanding is has not been fully paid for that. Maybe hes gotten 1 million and lets remember, this is a man who went to ruckers not once, but twice for donald trump, but it does seem, look, weve heard in court there there seems to be some discussion underway about bringing him in in some way, even if he only takes the fifth. All right. Let me throw it back to anderson in new york. Anderson jake thanks want, to bring in criminal Defense Attorney arthur aidala. Arthur as a Defense Attorney, im sure youve had a lot of clients who have a checkered past or clients who have lied on the stand and other cases. How do you handle that as an attorney . Well anniston, you you admit what you cant deny what you deny when you can and make meaning. Yeah, i have to admit youve been convicted, you have to admit everything thats gone on. But you can admit so much so much so that you youre worthless so its a real balancing tests about credibility. I wont tell you being here and i was inside the courthouse, not the courtroom but the whole building. I know this sounds like a little bit of a exaggeration, but is really a buzz. Its really like you could feel it from the Court Officers for their clerks who i know because they know that today is the de what we discussed last week whats up until today if if the prosecutor should rested the case would have to be dismissed before it even went to the jury. Michael cohen is what ties trump to the bookkeeping and shoe that bookkeeping in light of a front of furtherance of a crime. I dont know what else is going around here except a block away is the menendez trial. So theres a lot of activity here in Lower Manhattan here so just in terms of cohens testimony how essential is it . I mean, obviously, prosecutors would like there to be sudden written documentation that would back up Michael Cohens claim that donald trump you know, what was in on it knew how this was being filed, but it is essential that cohen somehow convinced jurors that donald trump knew about how this payment was being filed in the system yeah. The word you use is the perfect word essential. Its, its necessary, its what satisfies the elements of intents. And they have to prove knowledge that donald trump knew about it. We heard about one of the other bookkeepers talking about a pulldown menu where different expenses would be listed in that pulldown menu. One of the words was legal cohen has got to be able to say that there were some conversation. There was some connection that trump knew about that and knew how it was going to be listed, and that they were doing it for the election. So they would doing it to violate state alleged laws. Federal alleged was or. Some sort of tax laws. So hes vital. I mean, im reading the testimony thats coming out so far i think as a prosecutor, i would let a little bit more about his criminal past. They did not do that, but they have to do that. They have to take as much air out of the balloon so when the when defense comes into in a examined him about his criminal history, about his time in prison, that its not as much of a big deal. I mean, im sure Susan Hoffinger will do that before she is seated either today or tomorrow having jurors asking about trumps consideration of a president ial line in 2011. I mean, as a Defense Attorney cohen appears to be choosing his words very carefully as he described a described the 2001 and moving to june 2015, cone recalls trumps the announcement at from tower as a Defense Attorney, you would if you were to crossexamine Michael Cohen, i would assume you would go back and look at all the plethora of things that Michael Cohen has said on his podcast. Tiktok. I think hes on in his weeds all of that. You would want to use against him. Is that right oh, absolutely. Right up until like, i guess it was wednesday or something. And just and i believe you showed me a picture of him wearing a tshirt with trump behind bars. So you could start you can you can make you can choose, but you could start from less than a week ago and go all the way back or you can start all the way back and then come forward. But you want to show all the motivation he has to lie in the fact that he hates trump and he wants something go to jail and you know, theyre going to try to catch him in as many lives as possible. And the judge at the end of the case, after the summation, but before the jury goes to deliberate, hes going to instruct the jury that if you find a witness is lying about something, a material fact you could discount all of their testimony. I mean, you can piece it apart as well, but you can say, you know what jurors are allowed to do this, the judge going to tell them theyre allowed to do this . Story daniels light about this. I think she lied about everything Michael Cohen light about this at this trial. I think he lied about everything. So its important for the defense to catch him in as many lies past, present, or or currents really as possible arthur aidala, good stockyards are thinking very much. Ill see you later tonight on three 60. Michael cohen is saying that he will frequently provide comment, depress a regarding different matters that kept popping up. This is in 2011 when donald trump was allegedly flirting with a run for the presidency and backward paula kaitlan, Michael Cohen had also said that trump had told them that in 2015 he would run. And this is setting the stage for the fact that this is charged as a felony because the argument is that this hush money was paid in order to help trump win the election so cohen says he would go on multiple tv news channels on behalf of trump and the prosecutor could firms with cohen that he leveraged his press contacts for trumps campaign. This is all going to speak to cohens role on official though it was in the campaign and helping trump get elected. And that is key because thats what elevates falsifying Business Records of paperwork, crime to a felony, cohen yeah. This is key cohen says trump told him, you know, that when this is announced, theres gonna be a lot of women coming forward. The prosecutor moves to the 2015 meeting with pecker. And from this is the meaning that has already heard. David pecker is already testified about this is this critical meeting david pecker, donald trump, talking about this schemes from this catchandkill schemes, he said peppers and they didnt use that term. Yes, maam. Going says when asked about whether the men in 2015, but that comment from Michael Cohen when he did decide to finally run for president and was making that 2015 and outside the he said to Michael Cohen to be prepared because there would be women coming forward. I mean, it speaks to trumps involvement in knowing what was going to be coming, what he anticipated, and what he wanted Michael Cohen to do about it. I think thats really important testimony for the jury to hear in the sense of whats coming and the fact that trump anticipated this what it looks like when it actually happened and what Michael Cohen carried out. And is the meeting obviously, just to remind everyone because it was 16 days ago in this trial that that david pecker testified about this where he essentially said that trump and Michael Cohen sought him out to ask him how he could help them with the campaign initially had been reported the other way around that pecker her was seeking to see how he could help cut pecker testified that they sought him out and asked what he could do with his platform of the National Enquirer and largely ami, in order to help their campaign. And thats what Michael Cohen is saying that they discussed the power of that in terms of where it was located, how many people saw the eyeballs that it got. Also, the National Enquirer with something that registered high and trumps mind, because of course, his brain is often kinda his mindset isnt stuck in the 1980s in the sense of of what he values covers headlines and what that looks like, and how important he believes that isnt said if we can place positive stories about mr. Trump, that would be beneficial wasnt just about sure keeping an eye and about any women coming forward. It was actually putting out positive stories and negative stories about ted cruz, about ben carson and others. Yeah. Anything that he could do to help him get elected and use the platform that he hadnt. This prosecutors will argue is the beginning of the conspiracy that resulted in the Stormy Daniels hush money the payment from colon, and then an effort to cover it up. So this now theyre really getting into the case right now and go and saying if we can place negative stories about some of the other candidates that would also be beneficial. Hoffinger also asked whether pecker offered anything else and Michael Cohen is now testifying is something thats already been corroborated by another witness, david pecker. Pecker had the exact same recollection of this meeting and testified to it initially so the jurors are hearing something that theyre already familiar with, that they know the margaret rubio, the ben carson, the negative stories that the National Enquirer put out on their behalf in an effort to benefit donald trump and Michael Cohen said that david pecker said he would keep an eye out for anything negative about him. We already know that. So it really also is speaking to Michael Cohen and the sense of what the jury is hearing. Theyre having him corroborate what theyve already heard and that he would be able to help us know in advance of anything was coming down the pike, essentially, hoffinger, i happened to her confirms with cohen that pecker via ami executed that plan katelyn makes an important point if prosecutors really have buttoned up already, most of what youre going to hear from cohen, you go through documents or other witnesses up until about 20 17, and thats when the direct examination is really going to be maker break for this case. Now, cohen confirmed he previewed some National Enquirer stories about trumps political opponents. So theyre david pecker but cohen trying to use this platform to damage his opponents. Among them, he says, were stories about Hillary Clinton wearing very thick glasses. Some allegations that she had some brain injuries. Now, david pecker also testified that they would have run negative stories about the clintons anyway, because they sold well. But cohen confirmed that ami would sometimes send over covers to him before they were published, but getting through all of this again, much of this has been supported, corroborated by other witnesses. What is not though, is that direct link between trump and falsifying Business Records . Cohen said he would immediately show it to mr. Trumps, so he knew that david was loyal, was on board. He was actually doing cohen says of pecker and from gym peckers testified before about the importance of the covers for him and jeffrey thuban had written an article about david pecker National Enquirer for the new yorker back then. And that was very much old pecker really cared about, didnt care what was inside the magazine. He was just about to cover the impact it had on right at the check you counter, cohen said that when he showed trump the coverage, trump was pleased and would call it fantastic. It also speaks to how Michael Cohen occupied a singular presence in trumps orbit in the sense of what trump would go to him for what he expected Michael Cohen to handle the top negative stories particularly about women as Michael Cohen just noted there. And i think that could essentially, you know, obviously we have no idea how the jury will interpret any of this. Maybe theyll believe nothing. Michael cohen says, maybe theyll believe everything he says, but it is important that they are establishing that this was Michael Cohens role, that this is what he did for donald trump his testimony can speak to this. This is interesting though, Michael Cohen has not yet looked at the jurys answering question, struggling to the prosecutor. Im not a prosecutor, but i think you would as a prosecutor, want Michael Cohen to look at the jury to kind of establish this relationship with them as Keith Davidson, when he Stormy Daniels is attorney who negotiated this deal with Michael Cohen when he was testifying, his entire body was turned towards the jury away from the prosecutors almost as he was looking at them in directly answering their questions. Its notable that Michael Cohen is not doing that because hes probably the most important witness who needs to develop that trust in that relationship with the jury. This is weird because the jury is also the closest really to him in that courtroom rate to his lap. Caitlin is to meet the fact that hes not looking at them. Its weird. It could be that hes uncomfortable. It could be that he wasnt coach or that he he he was concerns whos coached a look at a prosecutor now, prosecutors are showing an email from collins, amis very levine in a dylan howard from 2016 january 2016, with the fact that hes not looking at them at all. That is really unusual. The interesting to see after the break if that change is a prosecutors coach him to start looking at the jury because he has to earn their trust in order for prosecutors to succeed living and saying, as our readers cant get enough of mr. Mr. Trump, we are repackaging and repurposing past materials from our files. This isnt normal by the way. I mean, i know that weve talked about this and theyll checkbook journalism phenomenon is some of these witnesses have called it, but to have the National Enquirer or send over covers to the Trump Campaign to have to Donald Trumps personal attorney shouldnt say not someone to officially worked the campaign to have them review it and for trump himself to personally review it. Its remarkable. Doesnt happen every political candidate out there whos ever had a negative story written about them, is looking at this befuddled because this is not normal in any shape or measure the additional material course living says of a positive nature continuing into the email saying, even if they recycle old stories and add additional material, as long as it was a positive nature of the relationship clearly was mutually beneficial. It helped newsstand sales for a National Enquirer. And it certainly helped trump and the campaign. The question is, even if jurors believed dont like Michael Cohen and or think he is doing dirty work and ethically challenged the fact that he was so close to donald trump and trump embraced him for this very reason and used them for this very reason will that rub off on their perception of donald trump and he worked Michael Cohen worked for donald trump. It wasnt an accident yeah. Shes moving through cohens testimony slowly methodically. That might build some empathy for him perhaps. But remember eventually trumps earns him. And then cohen turns on him for six or seven years, makes his entire identity attacking the defendant. I think that is the thing that prosecutors need to get around. Why should we trust someone who again names their book revenge . How do we . We believe that theyre not a liar out for revenge against the defendant. The other interesting thing now theyre moving on to the trump tower doorman story, which was false. But amis paid . The glue is 30,000 to capture that story. So the dorman, who had enormous penalties if he did say it to someone else. I think millions of dollars. Theyre moving onto basically the pattern here. The other thing that as theyre slowly in the thoughtfully going through this, i mean, they want the jury to hear every detail from Michael Cohen himself that was corroborated by others when i was watching Michael Cohens testimony over the weekend. One thing that he testified to about the Home Equity Line of credit that he ultimately used and hid from his wife to pay Stormy Daniels the 130,000 as he talks about the conversations he had with Allen Weisselberg were weisselberg was suggesting and donald trump, could he get a free golf membership . Is there some way that he or use it well, club or a venue to rent it out to find any other way to basically were Michael Cohen could get paid 130,000 and use that it just speaks to the levels of hoops that they jumped through to try to pay her off, that theyre being without it being traceable. I think thatll be something key that Michael Cohen has testified is that they purposely were trying to avoid having a money trail. They could have been really useful in this testimony. Go kevin is saying that he went to trump immediately to advise trump that there was a story because it was negative story for him. This is the doorman stories. That picture of the door managers for those who are curious to put a face to who they are talking to, talking about. But again, this is a story that turned out to be false about a child born out of wedlock. Thats the door man there. He was paid off, but also thousand dollars. She told me to make sure that destroyed doesnt get out. You handle it going from says from told us the full story got 30,000. Look at what Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels god, they got much higher six figure amounts, which also speaks to what they were willing to pay and how they viewed these stories and whether or not they were truth again, Michael Cohen being the person who would handle all of this for trump, they were going to pay 30,000. They were executing an agreement with the doorman in order to retain the life rights to the story, the whole idea of obtaining the life rights thats part of the catch and kill. You obtain this something that the National Enquirer did you obtain the rights to it and then you dont publish the story. Cohen, since he was in contact with david pecker and dylan howard about this story. And this clearly speaks to intend to desire to suppress negative stories ahead of the election knowledge at anything like this could hurt him with voters he wants to win the white house. That is the intent behind this catch and kill deal along with the Karen Mcdougal, one thing has get a little more complicated though, was Stormy Daniels because of course, ami stops putting the bill and then its on Michael Cohen to facilitate this payment. And thats where of course we find ourselves today in court. So this is all pretty welltrodden ground in terms of this trial, what happened here when cohen got updates in the ami team, he said he would update chump immediately. Again, going back to the prosecutions point that trump was always in the loop. He always knew what was going on. A micromanager to the max, Michael Cohen is justified this about this for other situations. I mean, remember when you could call it lied to congress about was trump tower or the Trump Organization and their attempt to do business in russia. And michael go and testified that donald trump personally instructed him to lie about it because donald trump himself was lying about it publicly, because donald trump didnt think he would win the election and he wanted to still pursue those business steals. And Michael Cohen says that on the campaign trails they were walking to the motorcade, are leaving no rally stage that trump would ask him for updates on it. Its similar to this where Michael Cohen was the one expected to personally brief donald trump, not in writing necessarily, but often in person and certainly on the phone about these matters. And jake cohen is confirming that the idea was to take the story off the market. This is the story told by the door magic. Yeah, it turned out to be false, but something thats very fascinating about all of this. Let me bring in the political sayyed of my table here so barry levine, who is the executive editor of the National Enquirer, is being excited in this testimony levine says in the text or an email rather in january 2016, as readers cant get enough of mr. Trump, we are repackaging and repurposing past material from our files and adding additional material. Of course, also of a positive nature, cohen in court is right now saying i reviewed this is about the other story to ensure that mr. Trump was fully protected. I also ask them to send it to me so i could show mr. Trump it was being taken care of. Whats interesting to me about the very living thing is because for this United States of scandal series, i did for cnn, and its now on max im barry levine is in the john edwards episode because barry levine was a pitbull with john edwards story in september 2007, National Enquirer put out the note that they are going to theyre seeking information. Somebody calls in and says real hunter is hinting that shes having an affair with the senator whos running for president barry libin googles it sees that john and Elizabeth Edwards have one of the most admired marriages and politics. And from then on, he is a pit, pit bull to expose john edwards as the fraud that he was cohen is right now saying that he recommended removing an end date from the agreement and to make it in perpetuity, this is the doorman lie. Very loving. Cohen turns to the jury explaining that means its forever they own the story forever. It can never come out barry levine had the complete opposite reaction to jump to donald trump stories whatever you think of the National Enquirer paying for stories and the kind of journalism they do checkbook journalism, you digging through trash cans, whatever they were, right. And they were way ahead of everybody on the john edwards story. And john edwards was exposed for what . Us they were doing the exact opposite thing here for donald trump. They were hiding stories that they knew to be true. I you know, buying the story for the doorman thats fake. I mean, i dont that doesnt really boil my blood because it was allies. So who cares really, and its a shame that famous people have to pay off liars who have bogus stories, but the idea that the National Enquirer existed to protect donald trump is remarkable and not, i dont know how much people out there, understand what journalism is supposed to be and everything. But like its not supposed to be that youre not supposed to pick and choose. And youre not supposed to be like Donald Trumps good copy and barry pecker. I mean, david pecker and he are good friends. Therefore, were going to go after every other Single Person making up stories about Hillary Clintons glasses, et cetera, et cetera. There are making up stories about ted cruz, his dad, making up stories about marco rubio, et cetera and just and burying stories that are true about down throb, its really really unbelievable. And at the front end, if you will have a conversation that we have all the time now about american politics and the trump effect in that if you look at fox news, you look at newsmax. If you look at oan, there are these cases people are streaming services that are totally pro trump or donald trump could do no wrong. Here, very back right at the very beginning, you have sort of an old school publication. And to the point, i think it was kaitlan making the point that tom trump has an ace mindset. I think sometimes we should all have an open mindset and the idea that someone says, how does donald trump have this small town appeal . How does donald trump winning out in Rural America . Well, as you travel and you go into small stores in Rural America, its not just the boat deck is in new york city. If youre in a Small Grocery store out and small town america, the National Enquirer is right thing its in the grocery lot of people are not watching cable television, are going online every day or getting, now everyone gets the news on their phone, even back in 2015, 2016, less said it was barely the case. Michael cohen says that he went to prompt to tell him this agreement was completed. This is the one to pay off the guy who had the bogus story about the kids. The kid that donald trump fathered out of his merits, not a not a true story. He bought it for 30,000 or the National Enquirer did 30 grand in perpetuity. It disappeared. Cohen said trump responded at the time thats great. Right . Hey, well and i think theyre establishing here, obviously this story is different from the stories where there was more truth established. Lets terror mcdougal, which is the prosecution is moving to right now. But the point of it was to show how the interaction would work between Michael Cohen and donald trump. And one other thing that i think is interesting here as again, to look ahead what they have to do is tie these two crimes together, not just that the Business Records were falsified, but they were falsified in the service of under new york state. The way that they wrote that law, defrauding the voters of new york state. Im in an attempt to commit a second crime thats what would make this a felony, right . And theyre talking about this very much in the contexts of the campaign. So the testimony that cohen is offering is saying, well, National Enquirer was into this because they were covering the campaign that was kind of all everything that was related to it was about his his election campaign. And thats and thats what Michael Cohen is saying right now, right theyve moved on to Karen Mcdougal cohen is asked about when did he initially here about Karen Mcdougal . He he sits in his he shifts in his seat and he exhaled slightly. He said he got a call from somebody at American Media incorporated, whether it was david pecker, the ceo, or dylan howard, the editor and chief of the National Enquirer asks what impact the story would have on trumps president ial campaign . Opinion. This is 1998 playmate of the year, Karen Mcdougal, alleging a long term over many months relationship affair with donald trump. Donald what kind of impact would it have on the president ial campaign . And Michael Cohen says, quote significant cohen says he alerted trump, quote, immediately after i got off the phone with ami, he went to Trumps Office and said, hey, boss, i got to talk to you. So now were getting to the heart of the matter a couple of really interesting pieces of testimony that just recently happened. One, Michael Cohen testified that when trump decided he was going to run for office, trump said to Michael Cohen, theres going to be a lot of women coming forward and Michael Cohen testified, we never actually paid to catch and kill until after he announced his candidacy. And one thing that the prosecution is doing here is they are linking up not explicitly, but theyre hoping the jury can follow along. They are linking up when Michael Cohen saying about how this all work to prior testimony that the jurys heard primarily from david pecker, secondarily from Keith Davidson and who represented Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels . I think this part of the case, by the way, its coming quite cleanly and clearly the idea that they were paying to kill stories because of the campaign, the accounting part on the front end, i think is the trickier part, but this part to me is coming quite so cohen says he goes to Trumps Office. He says, do you know who Karen Mcdougal is . Trump says shes really beautiful. Thats cohen says. Cohen says that thats her response. Cohen testifies. I said, okay, but theres a story thats right now being shopped. Trump said, make sure it doesnt get released. So cohen takes that to mean they needed to acquire the story, which is the catch and kill aspect of this former trump attorney Tim Parlatore, and former Michael Cohen attorney lanny davis are back here with us. Trump still sitting back with his eyes closed in courtroom. Again, we should remind people to parlatore paying hush money is not illegal in any sense. But would they are establishing here . A pattern that they hope to establish with Stormy Daniels. Cohen says that he would communicate with pecker by phone, text, email, app. He confirms that when he said api means signal. So this this is relevant to the case of prosecutors are trying to make it is theyre trying to cut down the ability to bring into John Edwards Style defense of oh, this was to protect milan is opposed to help the campaign. And it it is effective for that particular defense, maybe not necessarily for his knowledge of what they did in the books. One thing that cohen said here that i found very interesting was he ran to tell him about the deal was done and also to get credit get forward. And thats something that id seen a lot is that people around donald trump, theyll do things that he didnt necessarily ask for to please him. And theyll bring it to them and want to be the first one to come in and tell us something so that they can get credit for it and i think that thats part of the issue here, is that were Michael Cohen made been doing a lot of things on his own. But now hes coming in saying, oh, yes, it was asked for. Yeah. Whereas maybe at the time he just assumed well, thats what would make him happy. Thats gonna be the crux of the prosecutions case. They have to prove it cohen says he updated trump frequently cohen says he used signal to communicate. Thats the encrypted app to communicate about Karen Mcdougal, quote, again, because of the nature of the issue to make sure that it remained private, the jury is now seeing Text Messages between Michael Cohen, trumps lawyer, and fixer, and dylan howard, the editor and chief former editor in chief of the National Enquirer, in june 2000 16 cohen is now reading through these texts and im going to be interrupting you when they come in atlanta, davis but tell me like is there proof that Michael Cohen did what he did when it came to Stormy Daniels at trumps behest and with trumps knowledge and not just on his own and then running back for approval on june 16, 2016, dylan howard, the editor in chief of the National Enquirer, texts cohen meeting will be on monday per their terms, dylan for their terms signed dylan colon responds. Understood. Thank you for everything. In any case, lanny well, im trying to remember how much he will testify about what he told mr. Trump about Stormy Daniels. But one thing that is coming through as a pattern in all the testimony, not just cohen today, but others, is that is the micromanager donald trump everyone, that ive spoken to since i started representing Michael Cohen, we marked about what a micromanager even signing every check in the oval office is assistant we marked. That there really very little that happened that didnt go through mr. Trump and that he didnt micromanage. So at some point in time, the jury is going to start to think everything that went on here, Michael Cohen checked with donald trump and donald trump did that with everyone else. So its not just Michael Cohens word, they have to believe its his pattern of conduct. Well, and speaking of which so on june 16, 2016, this is what the texts that are being in an email, messages that are being introduced in court right now. A dylan howard the editorinchief of the National Enquirer texts, Michael Cohen meeting will be on monday per their terms. And conan explains, this is about meeting with Karen Mcdougal and her people, dylan howard, who is the editorinchief of the National Enquirer, is going to meet with Karen Mcdougal and her people on their terms for whatever they want to do in terms of selling their story. Michael cohen response. Understood. Thank you for everything. Michael cohen, dan tests, a text. Keith schiller on that same day, june 16, 2016, Keith Schiller was trumps bodyguard, his security guy Michael Cohen when texts schiller, can we speak . I need you Tim Parlatore what about the case atlanta is making about the micromanaging donald trump, which has been a theme throughout a lot of this testimony. It is a famous, i think the leonie just actually highlighted the weakness in the governments case. There is no direct evidence other than Michael Cohens word the donald trump asked or knew about any of these things that we know of . Correct. And so what theyre going to have to rely upon is the general testimony that hes a micromanager and everything else. So therefore, they want the jury to assume that he was micromanaging this particular thing. And so i think that thats, thats gonna be a significant problem for them because if Michael Cohen doesnt have a single document or a secondary witness or anything to backup that this specific conversation happened. And if all theyre going to rely upon is now it convicted perjury, saying it happened, and other people saying is a micromanager thats a weakness. Well, its certainly, it seems to be what the prosecutions banking on. And jamie gan go. So the reason that Michael Cohen texted Keith Schiller, wright was not to check in to see how hes doing Keith Schiller is trumps bodyguard, his security 30 guy, and he wants to know where the bosses wheres the boss . Cohen says, which of course refer references mr. Trump and cohen as regarding the Karen Mcdougal matter. I thought it was important, so hopkins youre the prosecuting attorney is now showing call records indicating that trump and cohen spoke by phone for two minutes and 31 seconds. On june 16, 2016. So against trying to provide this evidence to back up Michael Cohens story. Okay to what tim said. Yes, the prosecutors have to connect the dots. They have to connect the dots Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. But it hasnt just been about micromanaging david pecker of the National Enquirer has already been on the stand frontloaded, said he wanted to help the campaign, that he would be the eyes and ears of the campaign. Hope hicks has testified that Michael Cohen would not do this on his own these are not hostile witnesses to donald trump. So the question is when all is said and done, have the prosecutors taken these witnesses who are not hostile . To donald trump along with the paperwork and threaded the needle. So just to just to catch you up on what else is going on. So dylan howard had told Michael Cohen the meeting is set up and hes talking about Karen Mcdougal. When are people thats on the 16th four days later, dylan howard texts cohen, im about to meter. Her name is Karen Mcdougal, former playboy playmate. Okay. Cohen response. We need to speak. Now first of all, not just to playboy playmate, 2019, 98 playmate of the year so just as we give Stormy Daniels or directing credits, but let let let us give Karen Mcdougal her do as well. But the point is that dylan howard, even though he is purportedly an independent journalist, the editor in chief of the National Enquirer is actually in many ways, at least according to this exchange, acting as an emissary of the almost the trump, not definitely not the Trump Campaign but trump inke the trump brand because pecker is on board with promoting the trump brand and im not saying that proves their case or it doesnt prove their case, but he certainly operating as an emissary of the Trump Organizations, writ large, completely outside of the lines under which we operate. If you were having a conversation with a Trump Campaign official, you wouldnt call the Biden Campaign and tell them that you might, after the fact, call them, get reaction to it, but you wouldnt coordinate with them. Your questions, or you wouldnt coordinate with them your activity, so you wouldnt give them a heads up. Hey, i just got some potentially damaging information chen about you was just relayed to me how can i help you kill it it just does not happen in traditional journalism. It just shows you this is an incredibly unusual with the National Enquirer. I dont think there are that many people out there watching who think of it as a traditional ear, think of as the New York Times, the wall street trade to break stories though, they do, they do or their local newspaper, but they absolutely they do. They tend to be of a personal nature or big for its current location. But i dont i dont think a lot of people out there in the world. I dont think a lot of people out there take amendments are traditional journals out, but just the idea that donald trump had a friend that was essentially a giant fishing net to go out and find things that could be bad to him is incredibly important, but to the attorneys point. Okay. Theres nothing illegal about it unless you get to the Campaign Finance piece of it. And thats harder to process. This is so fascinating. So dylan howard, the editor in chief of the National Enquirer, texts cohen after the meeting spoke to dp, meaning david pecker, who was the ceo of the entire tabloid empire. Im wrapping up with them, meaning Karen Mcdougal and her team, and then we will convene a threeway call between us all to sort this out understand. Ive got this locked down for you i wont let it out of my grasp, but that is the editor in chief of the National Enquirer telling Donald Trumps emissary Michael Cohen, ive got it wrapped up for you. I wont let it out of my grasp. Did you insist this time im having a call with dylan howard right after he met with Karen Mcdougal, the prosecutor asks Michael Cohen. Yes, maam. Cohen says because i need needed to get an update so i could provide it for mr. Trump. The judge, theres an objection right now from the defense to hoff question about whether howard express to cohen if he thought mr. If he thought Karen Mcdougal story was true, the judge sustained that objection. So theyre not going to explore that. Cohen says he was in Trumps Office when trump had a call with david pecker about the Karen Mcdougal matter. So i wanted to describe to you my reaction looking for trumps involvement because he systematically avoided emails. He would talk like the godfather in signals in code Michael Cohen testified to that and before congress, but there was one moment when i was going through this evidence where i was startled to see that trump violated his rule and met with david pecker. And Michael Cohen agreed on this cash and kill system. Trump for the first time, as i remember thinking, was there on record and theres a third Party Witness before i knew david pecker was going to be a witness. Its at the very least thats one time that trump makes the mistake of not speaking in code, not nodding his head. I dont like that guy. The way we see in godfather movies he is directly connected to the caching killed by meeting with david pecker and later on we have him on tape as you know, with Michael Cohen talking about that deal and its the second time that it didnt rely on codes. He was on tape talking about the one 50 in cash. And heres heres another another time where theres a third person involved. The third person being Michael Cohen. If you believe this testimony there is this meeting trump. So trump is is meeting with Michael Cohen trump is talking on the phone with david pecker about the Karen Mcdougal matter he puts the phone on speaker phone Michael Cohen says of trump during the call he asked him, meaning trump asked pecker how things were going with the matter, meaning the Karen Mcdougals story, david pecker said he had this under control, will take care of this. Cohen says of pecker during that phone conversation with trumps. So this is this is another its one of these situations. Remember, all of this is not illegal, right . None of its illegal. Every everything that theyre corroborate and everything that landed just talked about. Thats not illegal if the us Attorneys Office of gun after his Campaign Finance case, then yes. They did have corroboration, but they didnt this is all about what happened between Michael Cohen and weisselberg as to the booking of the payments thats it. But prosecution so if they dont have direct evidence of trumps involvement in that discussion. May i just feel badly . I constantly hear that its not illegal to pay hush money. Thats not what this case is about, right . David pecker said it was about the campaign. Hope hicks says that was about the campaign. There is no doubt that the money was being paid for political reasons, and its because of the political motivation that makes it a crime. Well, the question is you said, you say no, its the political motivation that makes it a crime. I agree with you. Hes not charged with that problem that the us attorney Attorneys Office rejected, that. He political motivation is the crime of Campaign Finance violation. I respectfully disagree with you and nobody seems to think that this was about melania, the payment of hush money testimony that thats what it was. So youre saying theres no doubt that this was politically motivated. Youre saying there is a depth well, everyone is testifying that it was obviously im not defending him in this case. Im not representing them but thats not the issue here. The issue here is whether he knew about how they were booking it. Thats the same. And if and if that booking was done for the purpose of concealing another crime. But the reality is even if hes right about this being some kind of Campaign Finance violation, even if thats true, accepting that the way that they put it into the books doesnt have any effect of of concealing that because those books arent public, right . So it doesnt have a connection to the legally, legally its no good to be continued just to bring people update on whats going on in court right now. So we have the speaker phone conversation going on between donald trump and david pecker, the head of the National Enquirer tabloid empire, and Michael Cohen is listening and because its on speaker david pecker says he added under control, this is buying the Karen Mcdougals story and killing it. Whats called catch and kill. David had stated its going to cost them 150,000 to control the story to which mr. Trump replied, no problem. Ill take care of it. Cohen says cohen said that meant he was going to pay him back. Trump is going to pay day david pecker back because david pecker in the National Enquirer are the ones negotiating this deal with Karen Mcdougal. According to this testimony, after the call with trump, cohen says he followed up with pecker in another call to confirm the details. Cohen has now reading more texts that he sent with dylan howard, who is the editor in chief of the National Enquirer. And also the National Enquirer slash ami slash Trump Organization, point man on squashing the Karen Mcdougal story. Anderson yeah, jake, i want to bring him soon as Christian Homes of has been monitoring this as well along with those person, how does it . It seemed to you donald trump is been reacting, are handling Michael Cohens testimony to this point we have two people here, Michael Cohen and donald trump were both very reactive people, to some extent, a loose cannon. And we know that Donald Trumps attorneys had really tried to brief him on not reacting to Michael Cohen, the way that we saw him react to Stormy Daniels. We saw him mutter under his breath. The judge had to pull him aside or pulls lawyer aside. He was cursing at certain points. They do not want him doing this with Michael Cohen. They believe that that will give Michael Cohen some kind of indication that hes gotten under trump from skin, which will urge him on. They have told donald trump to just remain focused, to not have any reaction. Now, of course, as i noted at the beginning of this, these are two people who are loose cannons. They often are very the reactive. So whether or not he can sit through hours of this kind of testimony without reacting remains to be seen, but right now it seems as though he is following some of his attorneys advice here to try and remain disconnected and not have any indication of how he is feeling in response to this testimony yeah chris, dylan, howard texted in 20 Michael Cohen, he agreed to do that they were worried that Karen Mcdougal was going to go on abc gma. Cohen says they have concerned that story was going to find its way to abc, meaning abc news, theyre saying that mcdougals Team Rejected the initial offer were. Told to get back to them by the eodie by the end of day with a reasonable offer, i want to bring in an atom coffman. He is a former executive assistant District Attorney for. The manhattan de das office. Im just wondering what you what you think prosecutors. So far are getting what they need thanks yeah anderson i think theyre certainly trying to get what they need i echo the points weve just heard about a lot of what were hearing right now about catch and kill, about Karen Mcdougal has nothing to do with the crime, which is the falsified occasion of Business Records. So again, what theyre doing is theyre taking cohen through points that are already corroborated by others. So that when it comes down to focus on the specific crime, which is the falsification of the record the testimony about the micromanaging about trumps involvement in everything will be largely corroborated and supported by all of that other testimony. There are also bringing this out to show that the intent the intent to defraud, which is part an element of the crime that that there was this intent to influence the campaign, which is both part of the intent to defraud, but also is necessary to show the campaign vite Campaign Finance violation, which would elevate this from a misdemeanor to a felony. I think theyre trying to build a lot of support around the center of the case, which theres some weakness there in that the falsification is something that trump didnt do himself it was done by others and not by him. So i think by trying to build everything around it, theyre sort of compensating for an essential weakness of the case, not that its not provable, its just weaker than other aspects of the case conors explaining that they got it and this is locked down. We prevent to this from being released on abc news and effectively the story has now been caught. He said, as he was told by dylan howard im wondering, what you make of of how Michael Cohen is its actually testifying were told that he has not been looking at the jury as he answers questions, and im wondering as a prosecutor, i mean, i talked to a jury consultant a couple of days ago regarding someone elses testimony jury consultant thought whatever seems more natural for somebody, maybe not to be staring at them all the time when theyre testifying and the jury all the time that might make some jurors uncomfortable and maybe kinda going back and forth between walking to prosecutors talking to the jury. Im wondering what you make. Does it make . I mean, isnt a problem you think that Michael Cohen is looking at the jury no, i dont i dont think its a problem. I do. I mean, i would agree with that. You want the witness to be as comfortable and relaxed as possible. You dont want them looking at trump. Thats for sure. You dont want there to be this sense of a challenge between them sort of two guys staring each other down on that makes it look like revenge ideally, the witness will focus on the person asking the questions. And then if its a short answer, probably maintain that eye contact if its a longer answer where theres sort of explanation maybe pivot and turn to the jury a bit and express it to the jury. But the natural thing for most witnesses when theyre being questioned is to focus on the person asking the questions. So i think that that makes sense to me that hes doing doing that Michael Cohen is saying he first worked with mcdougals lawyer, keith. They havent said and to get a 2011 blog posts about Stormy Daniels and trump taken down. What we learned last week, the prosecution had some phone calls witnesses the night before testimony, which is not uncommon in common. Do you think there were some phone calls to prepare Michael Cohen for today . How closely do you think that they had been working . I would think very closely. I would imagine that theres been people working with him up to the last minute he really is this case doesnt move forward without and i know some people have opined that the prosecution didnt really need and i really disagree with that. I think that they had to call him for this case. He is at the center of it. He is the one that created to the extent you want to talk about a false document the initial false document was Michael Cohens invoice. Thats whats received by the employees at the Trump Organization and theyre feeding off of that is theyre making their entries in the donald trump records. So the falsity of that document and why that document was made to be false to have that false recounting of the services provided. Thats crucial to the precise theory of criminal liability. And so really the prosecutors need cohen to express to the jury that what he was doing when he created these entries was covering up the fact that they had paid hush money for this story and then tie it into the campaign. The judge has sustained an objection to the prosecutors follow up. Which question would you have . What was your understanding of why Keith Davidson reached out to you after the sine deal . Hes talking about after the deal was signed with Karen Mcdougal Michael Cohen is testifying to Keith Davidson reached out to him. Merchan is objecting to why two operators follow up. What was your understanding of Keith Davidson why he reached out to you . Out of my assume that objection is because its Michael Cohens interpretation of what Keith Davidson was thinking yeah thats exactly right to understand. You might consider a Trial Attorney career after this your objection . To sustain the you know, a witness can testify to what was in someone elses mind theres usually ways to get around that with followup questions, but certainly cohen doesnt know what was in the mind of someone why that person called him adam kaufman appreciate your expertise again. Thank you so much. Michael cohen is saying he had also just laid out 30,000 previously. So hes putting pressure on me to speak to mr. Trump get the money back back with paula reid and Kaitlan Collins this is this is are they talking about pecker insisted that he get reimbursed when asked, pecker was upset, cohen testified very david pecker was worried he was not going to get reimbursed by donald trump. Yeah. And he didnt get reimbursed, which is part of why Michael Cohen ends up having to be the one to give Stormy Daniels her money. Now right now, im not saying that its easy what Michael Cohen is doing, but this is the easy part in terms of his assignment. Now they followed up at a lunch at peckers favorite italian restaurant. Again, he expressed anger. What Michael Cohen is going through at things that other witnesses have testified to. Michael cohen has spoken about publicly many times, things that are somewhat easily corroborated because theres so many other people well involved and theyre not central these when hes testifying to these lines are not central to the criminal charges. What its going to get more complicated is when we get into the Stormy Daniels Hush Money Payment and reimbursement, and its really just trump and cohen, who are the only two, maybe Allen Weisselberg, who have knowledge of that. So right now, our colleagues reporting and sayyed the he appears relaxed. Hes doing pretty well. Again, this is the easy part. Its going to get a little bumpy or from here, david pecker was upset. They went to lunch. Cohen says that when he relayed the message that trump trump said, dont worry, ill take care of it, which he ultimately never did, but it does speak to why Michael Cohen had to dip into his own money and draw that Home Equity Line of credit to pay Stormy Daniels because National Enquirer, an ami and david pecker had already paid the dormant 30,000. They paid Karen Mcdougal 150,000, which trump implied he would be get ready to reimburse. I should note trump is leaning back in his chair as is as chairs eyes close is cohen is testifying. That is its interesting because it and obviously how trump is responding to this has been a key point of interest when Stormy Daniels was testifying when she was being questioned by prosecutors, not even being crossexamined. Trump was paying close attention. He wasnt doing this thing for most of the time where he will close his eyes for sustained periods of time and it seems to be as if hes pretending like whats happening is not happening like hes not listening to the answers coming from the witnesses, and he is doing that again with Michael Cohen as cohen is describing what david pecker, how this is being carried out in the frustrations of the fact that they werent getting paid back from this old at the time by david pecker is being considered for become the ceo of time, inc. And cohen previously had said that he was he had concerns about the files, essentially that ami had on donald trump yeah. I think theres a sense here that there was a concern that if he goes onto another role, theres this file for potentially incriminating information. And in terms of using the encrypted apps, we know that for example, david pecker consulted with his lawyers about whether this was okay the federal election law. Im just possible one second. One of the concerns that i had expressed, mr. Trump was that if he goes theres a series of papers that can relate to you. You can tell that everybody involved in this knows that they have something to hide. The question is, are they hiding it from the public to help trump get elected . Part of it, hiding it to protect trumps family or trying to hide it from investigators. Harris cohen says, i didnt know what the stories were. Nobody was discussing that. Now cohen said he recalled recorded the september 6, 2016 college trump. The jury has already heard this, where they discuss the Karen Mcdougal payment in that phone call down from they intubate, you know, what happens to david pecker gets hit by a bus or she didnt, figured went to work for Somebody Else who would have access to these files. Cone says it was the only time you recorded a call and ten years of working for trump . Thats so interesting because i hope the next question is, why did you feel the need to record this call . Why was this the one that you record it . This also be an interesting moment because remember when they played this audio for the jury, it cuts off at a certain point and theres a period thats not there trumps team tried to imply to the data guy who was essentially just verifying that yes, this was a real recording that part of it was missing or edited and trump came out after and spoke to reporters in the hallway and he said, well, its cut off right at the part where i Say Something really positive. I mean, of course that is a defense from donald trump. Theres no way to prove that, but it will be interesting for Michael Cohen to be able to be asked and testify to what happened in the rest of that conversation. I was in court the de that expert was testifying and they were trying to get him. He said that another call was coming in, which is why then Michael Cohen says another call was coming in, which is why it was kinda cut off. Also wanted to him to remain loyal to mr. Trump. Cohen says but unclear exactly how his testimony played. It seems sort of a wash as to exactly why no one can say for sure exactly why it was cut off or obviously what we said, we actually have that pause. Lets lets play the audio of that call while while this testimony is going underway, cohen says he had his cell phone in his hand. He hit record while he had a conversation with trump, who was on the opposite side of trumps desk. Cohen says, play the sound correct so im im all over that. And i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be listening, wont have to so. Get no woman. I got trump was asking, or suggesting we have to payment cash. Michael cohen says no, no, no. To your knowledge, the Prosecutor Says was mr. Trump or where you were recording this conversation . Cohen says, no, maam so trying to get out ahead of the defense, thats going to try to suggest that cohen, who was wellknown to record many conversations with reporters and others, was recording his boss for some sort of diphtheria is purpose instead, theyre going to try to, hes going to try to frame it as he we wanted pecker to know that he had discussed this with them. Theyre trying to get an innocent small i explanation for why he was recording his boss about a sensitive matter without his knowledge. I mean, the question is how the jury reads that they can see that this is kind of the underbelly of politics and media and stories that donald trump and Michael Cohen were deeply intertwined with. Im not sure how theyll take, especially two of the jurors are lawyers. So it is interesting to see how theyre going to interpret both sides seem to believe will work in their favor. So i mean, obviously will know when the verdict comes down, but it is interesting how they view this jury and how theyre taking this information. But its almost guaranteed that when todd blanche, who is watching very closely as Michael Cohen is testifying, when he gets up there, hes going to try to use this moment that Michael Cohen decided to record donald trump to imply that he had malicious intent. And our reporters in the Court Reporting that the de manhattan da bragg is in court sitting two rows behind prosecutors appears to be listening, watching as the proceeding. This is really notable because the only other time weve seen alvin bragg is when two of his lowerlevel employees, paralegal and another employee have testified and i was told that he showed up for them to show support, that they were forced to testify in this very highprofile stressful situation because the trump team wouldnt stipulate or agree to allow that evidence in a different way. So the fact that hes here today appears to be a nod to the significance of this, but also to the task that Michael Cohen has ahead of him. Hes been preparing with prosecutors to do this for a year. So alvin bragg support in the courtroom. That is definitely notable. Of course, i would bragg has said nothing publicly about this case in the past year. Quite a contrast to prosecutors in georgia. And then new York Attorney general, who has spoken out during their cases for Michael Cohen. And alvin bragg to be the same room is donald trump to people that he despises . The most is also just remarkable in and of itself. I mean it, donald trump has railed against Michael Cohen and alvin bragg, probably more than almost anyone else besides President Biden in the last year. So obviously not Michael Cohen anymore because of the gag order thats in place that he also complaints about every single day. But the fact that theyre all in this small courtroom that is not that big, and theyre not that far apart. And trump does have a habit of looking back at the prosecutor whos asking the witness questions just is cohen is describing generalities, but its on tape. The audio is now being played for the jury. Thats the audio that you just heard. Us playing for you a copy of the transcript is also displayed on the monitors in front of the jury should say the transcript we had didnt have the full wording because you didnt hear you dont have in our transcript, we didnt have that donald trump saying about a cache which you clearly here in the audio cone is taking sip of water while the recorded call audio is being played for work, for the jury. Itll be itll be interesting once are reported are out of the courtroom to find out. Does cowen actually start to look at the jury . Has he started to worry if they take a break . Does he come back and then start doing it . Have prosecutors told him something they looked like at one point, they reported that he did actually finally break that third wall and look at the jury, which is good. It just perhaps hes becoming more comfortable, but im really curious to see after the break if they do talk to him about trying to turn right next to the jury as he testifies part of building that trust, the prosecutor is desperately need between and the jury and Michael Cohen because theyve already heard terrible things about at i mean, thats the other thing. This is the first time theyre hearing directly from Michael Cohen. Hes also rare witness who testifies directly to conversations he directly had with donald trump, Keith Davidson, as youll recall, when he was caused examined by trumps attorneys, one of the first points i made was this is the first time youve ever been in the same room . As donald trump, right . David pecker obviously was also able to shed light on that, but Michael Cohen is the key other voice who can talk about what trump said to him directly. Thats the effectiveness of history this is not the first time the jurors have heard this to what we were just talking about before that Forensic Experts doug dallas, a heat when he testified last week i guess it was jurors heard this recording earlier, jake, lets get back to you. All right. Anderson, thanks so much. So just catching up on what weve been listening to hear elie honig tell me what you think is significant. Well, this is a really important moment in the trial because the jury is now hearing a recording that Michael Cohen made of donald trump secretly in 2016 when theyre getting ready to pay storm excuse me. Karen mcdougal, importantly, not Stormy Daniels. And Karen Mcdougal. Its not a call, its an inperson meeting. Michael cohen records on his phone. And the reason it cuts off is because he gets an incoming phone call. That recording is the only time the jury will hear a recording of any conversation between donald trump and Michael Cohen and to me its a rorschach test when you look at the transcript of this tape, you can see it as donald trump knows whats going on. Michael cohen is telling him, were going to pay off Karen Mcdougal. Trump essentially says, yes, whats it going to cost . One 50 do it the other way of looking at it though, is that cohen essentially communicating to trump, dont you worry about the internal details of it. Leave that to me and Allen Weisselberg. You just know that were paying were going to hand at one point, Michael Cohen says, no, no, no, no. Alan and i will handle that. So both sides are going to be arguing this case, this tape intensely, because it goes right to that core issue of Donald Trumps knowledge and intent. So this is a september 6, 2016 phone call with donald trump, just to remind people inperson meeting. Yeah right. Inperson meeting. And just to remind people, the Michael Cohens offices rated in 2008 team, right . 2017. He lives before congress Behind Closed Doors, before the Senate Intelligence committee 2018. His office is rated 2019 is when he does his testimony before congress, cohen. So in any case, right now, one of the things going on as part of the audio apparently relates to the New York Times seeking divorce papers involving ivana trump, which is Donald Trumps first wife, his late wife. While this is being played, cohen is shaking his head side to side as if hes saying no. It appears he was disagreeing that the New York Times wanted trumps divorce records as if he was reliving the memory. Hoffinger, the prosecutor is now playing snippets of the call stopped being an cohen, what he was saying on the recording, george, the significance of this recording. Well, thats the emphasis is exactly what ellie said. I mean, its showing that for the prosecution its showing the pattern that existed from the 20th, 15 meeting with pecker that they were paying off the he that trump was neck deep in paying off people who had stories about him and that this was, you know, and that he knew the details of it because he knew even though he he delegated and some of it to weisselberg and to cohen. I mean, he caused the records to be false but in the end, because thats thats how the payments were paid. And then ultimately, trump wrote checks on that end. He saw the amounts that were on the checks and there was back up on the checks that he signed. And so the prosecution has to connect that tape up with all of the other evidence that its going to cite against trump so right now, cohen is explaining that they talked about opening a company. This is one of the Shell Corporations, one always goes to delaware to open quote in order to have separation, keeping it away from mr. Trump. In other words, he is claiming that the Shell Corporations were discussed with donald trump. Thats his testimony. Trump because leaning forward to read the transcript on the screen in front of him, cohen says he was going to open an llc that would be the owner of all the information that was contained in that drawer that david was referencing hoffinger asks why cohen referred to david and not david pecker lets lets bring in more of the audio from that phone call or for the problem that meeting rather i need to open up a company for the transfer of all the bad info regarding our friend day so im going to do that right away. Ive actually come up and ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with the funding that yes and its all the stuff all the stuff because you never know where that Company Never know what hes gonna be getting correct. So im im all over that. And i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be less than worthless well, i to pay yourself getting all i got no so this is evidence introduced in trial. Donald trump is reading the transcript as it appears before him on the computer screen. Theres two computer screens on the Defense Tables, desk, two on the prosecutions desk. And they are scattered battered throughout the room. Every juror has their own in which it is it seems as though elliot yeah. There is a discussion between donald trump and Michael Cohen about how to take care of this payment two and i guess in this case, its Karen Mcdougal now to pick up on ellies point earlier, used a great the term workshop test, that different people can interpret. Whats happening here very differently. There is not donald trump saying explicitly, heres what im asking you to do to break the law. What you do have though and Michael Cohen testifying as someone who was there, who can say, i believe this to mean unambiguously that he was asking me to engage in conduct to to hide or suppress information about this conduct more importantly, that the wonderful thing about audio recordings is that they bring people into the room in a way that transcripts or even eyewitness testimony cannot had Michael Cohens simply testified this is what i thought donald trump was saying mightve had some power in front of the jury, but theres just something about here in both peoples voices, but again, the interpretation can go both ways. Just to go over this. So heres the transcript is Michael Cohen told you about charleston and i need to open up a company for the transfer of all that info regarding our friend david, you know, david pecker. So that im going to do that right away. Ive actually come up and ive spoken. Trump says, give it to me and get me at Michael Cohen says, and ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg. Thats the cfo of the Trump Organization, whos doing time at rikers right now, i spoken Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole whole thing up with donald j. Trump. So what do we got to pay for this one 50, thats 150,000. This is for Karen Mcdougal. She does ultimately get that money. Michael cohen funding continued thought, how to set up the whole thing with funding . Yes. And its all this trump . Yes. I was thinking about that cohen all the stuff because here you never know where that company, you never know what hes donald trump maybe gets. He gets by hit by a truck talking about if anything bad happens to david pecker, how do we preserve this relationship and this information . Michael cohen . Correct. So im all over that and i spoke to Allen Weisselberg about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be donald trump. Listen, what financing . Michael cohen will have to pay him something. Donald trump pay with cash. Michael cohen . No, no, no, no, no. I got it. Donald trump. Check. So cohen is saying that the reason he mentioned weisselberg is because trump had previously directed him to speak with Allen Weisselberg, the cfo, about getting the matter handled hed already knew based on conversation with david pecker, which is why he mentioned the number 1501 more thing out. Wait, just wait for the defense to pants to pounce on. Im all over that. And i got that essential part of their of their case, whether we like it or not, is going to be the fact that that Michael Cohen was acting as an independent actor and going rogue and so on. Now, again, you hear Donald Trumps voice here that undermines that argument a little bit, but merely cohen saying again and again and again, ive got this, ive got this, ive got this fuels this argument that he was acting blame. And we said it says on the call, trump says pay with cash as i just read do you want over the transcript . Pay with cash, jamie . Yeah. There it is. Right there. Its the mob boss does not write down instructions to do things. And cohen explains that was one way to avoid any type of a paper transaction, but thats not what i thought was the best way to do it. 150,000 in cash, small bills. I made up the smallville spartan youre right its like a mob boss. Its like, okay, lets put the body over here. No, no, no, we have a better place. Does that mean that the mob boss isnt responsible for according were not the courts taking a brief morning break, judge. Machine is off the bench. Jake, quick. Go ahead. I just think there are two witnesses. We have to go back to here. David pecker, who said that donald trump was his mentor. He wanted to help him win the election. Hope hicks, who said that she spoke to him every day on the phone. We know she was the inner circle and had trust the jury has heard their testimony. So as an example, when hope hicks was asked whether Michael Cohen would do this out of the generosity of his heart, hope hicks testified, i didnt oh, michael, to be an especially charitable person or selfless person. This is the testimony that when we get to final arguments, im sure the prosecutors will just the very same calendar note, september 6, this thursday two days before the election, youve been watching cnn special live coverage after a quick break, anthony scare mode, she is going to join us to react to this busy morning of testimony from Michael Cohen. Stay right here adrenaline good shot of adrenaline, right to the heart thinking im thinking about her honeymoon about africa so far, Hot Air Balloon ride, swim with elephants, weight three, four to safari, great question. 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So it tells is a family of brands with a hotel for any traveler and you want to be like quality in for the dad that gets every dollar and minute out of this family road trip but de is upon us. Look at choice hotels. Com. Hello. How are we . Really happen with jesse you martin, sundays at nih on cnn welcome back to cnn special live coverage or dont from hush money, cover up. Trial court isnt a morning break. The jury just exited the courtroom without looking at trump. They were just listening to Michael Cohen testify. Michael cohen testify under penalty of perjury about that recorded phone call between the former trump fixture and is former boss, donald trump, cohen, explaining why he advised the former president against using cash to buy the silence. Women peddling stories about sexual encounters with trump. I want to bring an anthony scared muji briefly surface what else Communications Director in the trump administration. Anthony good to see you. So im cohen has long said that trump didnt direct people to do anything. Hes spoken code examples like handle it or make sure it doesnt get released. Is that when you experienced working for trump i wasnt i wasnt part of that. But what i did experience is that he was very keen not to use email or Text Messages. You know, he he felt a lot of the things that he was doing that were on the nefarious side anderson, he definitely didnt want data that could be retrieved and be potential form of evidence against him. At some point. So there was always that sense, but i didnt see that specifically. That was something that michael was handling directly given cohens history has credibility issues, im wondering how you think hes done so far with his testimony well, i mean, i think theres always going to be two schools of thought on this, but i see him as a form person. I see him that is already paid a price for lying and court. And i see it as a near possibility. They would be lying about this and i think he and the prosecutors build a Good Foundation of that today. Before the jury. And so i think the facts that michael are laying out are irrefutable and listen again, mr. Trump is entitled to innocence until that jury says hes guilty, but the facts are there, anderson, itll be i think very easy to conclude what happened and so i michael told a very good story today and i think michaels are compelling guy. And you and i both know people that have been caught in lies in the past that have reformed themselves and are speaking very directly and very factually. And i think he did that today. And listen, i think michael is one of the good guys and i think longterm history will reward him for the honesty that hes portraying today it is when you hear that just the testimony of hur to some power, what we know about the Trump Organization Michael Cohen, obviously was very close to donald trump and was in on all these things. Allen weisselberg is the other person who certainly was the closest to the fact that he is in jail right now. And not being called as a witness. I mean, thats a gift for donald trump. Well, okay. So there you go. Youve got two people that were involved with a high level of dishonesty and criminality and one is serving time and has made a decision to go in that direction. The other ones serve time already and is now being very open and very honest about about the case the defense will certainly point out that mr. Weisselberg is in there but i dont think its that consequential. I think the prosecution has done a very good job of laying out the facts of the case, and also a very good job of explaining where the trip wires are in terms of how you pass into criminality. So i dont think you necessarily need Allen Weisselberg to be there, but youre right. Hes decided to serve time in jail rather than give testimony, and hes entitled to do that. Do you does it make sense . You kinda the loyalty that Michael Cohen had to donald trump for so long. I mean, i mean, from his own testimony, he was bullying. He was you know, its growing over a lot of people on behalf. The direction of donald trump and when trump would all to kinda get the praise of donald trump, according to cohens testimony does that make sense to you . Thats kind of loyalty to a guy like down from who clearly doesnt show much loyalty to anybody else. Well, listen, it doesnt make sense to me and it wouldnt make sense to you, anderson, but i think theres a big underlying lesson in this. Dont be anybodys groupie. Whether its a rock and roller or reality star. And i think what michael did was he got on the volkswagen van with donald trump and he any hang out with the band and thought he was part of the band and he wasnt. And so when he got kicked the curb and thats exactly what donald trump does to everybody. Theres an asymmetric narcissistic nature to him but theres a big lesson there for viewers. Lets say at home and kids dont be anybodys groupie. And theres symmetrical nature to loyalty. Loyalty is a twoway street. When someones disavowing you lets face it, mr. Mr. Trumps only out for himself. Hes running for president for retribution and vengeance. Hes been very open about that. Hes not there to serve the American People. He, he hurts people and hes asymmetric and his nature its not just Michael Cohen. Theres a legion of people that hes done this too, but i think that thats the cautionary tale year. Dont jump on the volkswagen van with the long hair rockstar because its not going to serve your interests long term. The defenses argument is that trump didnt know the reimbursement check happen this way and was more it was marked as didnt know is marked as a Legal Expense and he didnt direct it being marked like that im wondering, do you think the prosecutor i mean, it Michael Cohen, it seems at this point is the only one who will testify for the prosecution that he didnt know. Do you think thats enough . Well, its also got them on tape. Anderson their on tape more or less verifying and confirming that the transaction is taking place. And the problem is going to go away. So i think that the combination of those two things the direct testimony, the evidence the tape i think its incontrovertible, frankly and this is karen much its good to talk to you. Thank you. Get a beer soon, court will resume. Michael cohen will retake the stand. The former trump fixture, spending roughly an hour and 45 minutes under oath already. 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Those who are still with us, yes. Grandpa whats this . Your wings. Light em up gentlemen, its a beautiful. Day to fly. 3636. Thats 180501, 3636 called now im more than liebermann at the pentagon. And this cnn hey quick moving morning at 100 centre. See courtroom 59, Michael Dean Cohen, just retake we took the Witness Stand, Donald Trumps lead attorney todd blanche, is whispering to his climate inside the room as the former trump fixer or settles in for more testimony the jury is returning to the courtroom. Right now. Former Trump Campaign adviser, david urban joins me now remotely. David, youve brought up a lot of concerns about cohens credibility. I dont know anyone who watches that. Michael cohens tiktoks more than you do is there anything you have heard so far today that has made cohen scene . Perhaps within the neighborhood of credible know look, jake our colleague, elie correctly pointed out this morning earlier that cohens lied to congress to the court, to the irs, the Southern District of new york, to his wife, to bankers he is the star witness. Hes the linchpin of convicted donald trump here and making the case that somehow that donald trump told him and hes telling the truth here now that he told them to write this down and log this incorrectly and, you know, its its jake, its not just me thats not convinced on this theres a New York Times sienna pull out this morning that has that has donald trump ahead in five of the six battleground states. So i dont know if the American People just arent tuning in or if they just dont care or i think this is not applicable, but apparently theyre not too concerned about this current ongoing case as well and our colleague freeds a car yeah. Wrote this past weekend, maybe i think it was on friday that even in his opinion, this case would have been brought unless the defendants name was donald j. Trump. So theres the court of legal opinion and then theres a court of Public Opinion. And i think the prosecutor, alvin bragg, is losing in both i think that mr. Trump earlier this today also quoted my colleague Fareed Zakaria there, the prosecution went to Great Lengths to establish that Michael Cohen loved working for trump and Michael Cohen said, the loved working for trump doesnt that help bolster his credibility as a onetime trump sick of fans who told lies eyes on trumps behalf. Now, coming forward and admitting that he loved working for trump, but hes not there anymore jake, thats thats the problem, right you know, it it looks well known and the media and the trump world that when, when Michael Cohen was passed over for a job in the white house its jake, you remember those early days that everybody and anybody whos getting the job in the white house, it was a lot a lot of criticism of who was getting those jobs. And Michael Cohen was left out. He did not he was not invited into the clubhouse and he was pretty, pretty upset about that. And look, i can make a case that he used he, was about it and hes out. Hes got an ax to grind. Now, this point, and i think thats the case the defense will make when theyre when theyre closing this case. So just back in the courtroom, the judge is instructed the jury that the evidence in the cases, the tape itself the transcript is an aid to that evidence, but its the tape itself that is the evidence. The prosecutor, hoffmans your back at the podium. Mr. Trump has his stack of papers in his handy. Was reading them as hoffmans your resumed questioning, trump looked over in cohens direction for a second and then turn to Say Something to emil bove oh, vein. And then todd blanche attorneys trump has been as these things go in court behaved, he is not cursing the way that the judge reprimanded his attorney for him doing last week he is apparently just sitting there keeping his eyes closed, not even looking at Michael Cohen for most of the time what do you make of it . Hes listening to his attorneys instructions yeah jake i think he really is. I think he recognizes is liberties at stake here. And that he needs to Pay Attention and listen. Im sure when he gets in that suburban after a long de a court, he is he is not remaining quiet. Im sure hes hes letting it out in the car. What hes done but i i applaud his restraint at this point hopefully it will remain itll remain now throughout the trial and well get back on the campaign trail here shortly and well pick up wisconsin here in the the next battleground poll comes out. Chubb will be up and six is six states david urban. Thank you so much. Good to see you. Some of the things going on in the courtroom right now. Thanks cohen says the recording was cut off. The according recording he was recording of using his phone to record this meeting with donald trump he said it was cut off because he received an incoming call circling back to the recording recorded conversation, cohen says he he didnt think cash was a good idea to repay the tabloid empire ami, for the mcdougal transactions. So he suggested by check to make it appear to be a proper transaction. I didnt want to record more cohen says cohen says i had already had enough that i would be able to show david pecker so as to convince him that he was going to receive the hundred and 50,000 back. So cohen, in this telling, raise recording, donald trump saying that hell suggesting that hell pay david pecker back the 150,000 that the tabloid enterprise pays Karen Mcdougal for her story so as to kill it, catch and kill he was trying to convince david pecker to do it. And by playing this recording of donald trump saying, yes, ill pay him back. Trump shakes his head. It cohens testimony while continuing to read the papers and his and im told we have some of the first courtroom sketches from inside the room again, if i had my druthers, we would be airing this entire thing for you live but were we do not have my druthers. So theyre heres a Jane Rosenburg special with attorney Susan Hoffinger standing at the little podium. They hair have a hound dog face to Michael Cohen testifying on the right judge. Merchan, listening intently theres there he is there versus bassett hound face Michael Cohen, and i want to bring something to your attention though. Jane rosenbergs art magisterial is it may be donald trump. We have been told has not looked in the direction he is depicted in this art. Looking he, he has generally been facing forward toward the the judge that is obviously a very recognizably donald trump though. So thats Jane Rosenburg. Im not sure if we have a Christine Cornell available. If we do, id love to see that. No cornell yet, but thats the art from inside the room. Cohen says, by the way, that the call that interrupted the recording came from a Bank Branch Manager at capital one. Bank, kasie hunt. So here we are, they are establishing the pattern, the prosecution of Michael Cohen taking care of ladies with stories about donald trump and anyway, hopkins, youre, did you ever alter that recording . Michael cohen says no. Right. But the recording, as weve heard, the judge say is evidenced. Right. And the context from our team in the room is just that what theyre doing here is trying to show oh, that this recording was not altered to try to push back against any suggestion that this is not the complete truth of what actually we hear that this is in fact what happened here, that this was recorded and its kind of interesting the reporting that we have coming in about trump as well and what hes been doing, he hasnt had too much reaction here. But we have seen him. Im trying to find exactly how they characterize what he was doing, but he was shaking his head at one point as he looked over papers here and it does seem to me in this sketch the point there is to show that his eyes were closed during much of this testimony. She seems to have his face turns so that we, as the viewers can see that his eyes up to be clear, not photographs. They are artistic interpreter to convey the most Important Information and Jane Rosenburg, who is heralded for her craft tends to portray donald trump looking in the direction of the testimony when in fact, that is not what he yeah. I mean, its portraying him as as as hes listening to this testimony, his eyes are closed right with him on with him on the stand, at least thats what i can tell from here. I mean, look, i think that this very clearly one of the interesting things here too. I mean, im interested to know how trump fields, but having been recorded by Michael Cohen, cohen is saying that trump was not aware that this recording was being made, but that the point of it was not to trap trump and something the point of it was to ensure that david pecker was going to be whats important about that . Jamie guy gallon, john king is not that Michael Cohen was trying to placate david pecker because he loved to david pecker and liked david pecker more than he liked donald trump no. It is. And this is analysis from abby phillip who is inside the prosecution is laying out evidence and speaks to why Michael Cohen was so concerned that david pecker was furious about not being repaid there was a lot of information that the tabloid had on trump in a secure drawer. Cohen didnt know what was in it, but he wanted to make sure pecker remained loyal to trump. So thats the significance. Of that. And then inside the courtroom after being asked if you ever altered the recording and Michael Cohen says no, was it typical for you to discuss financial matters with Allen Weisselberg . Prosecuting attorney Susan Hoffinger asks, it was typical for everyone to discuss financial matters with Allen Weisselberg, cohen says, cohen also notes at weisselberg was a longtime loyal employee to trump. So the word loyal, lets just talk about whats behind everything here, which is Michael Cohens credibility and i think its important to remind our audience. He is not getting anything for his testimony. Maybe revenge. Theres no plea deal. He already went to prison. Common sense. Why should you believe him now . He doesnt want to go back to prison if he gets caught lying thats perjury their point though, is to make that to a jury we understand the history of this case. Theyre trying to convince a juror or two. If this guy has an extra grind, whether its to David Irvines point, he wasnt invited into the white house or trump turned on him. Trump gave up on him. Trump was his source of money. There we go. But but. Again, in the idea that this urgency of keeping this these deals, not deal the Stormy Daniels deal and how they accounted for it is key to the criminal charges, but the idea of the presenting that this was a common occurrence September 6th is this recording which is labor day weekend, 60 days before an election. That part they havent proven it yet in this testimony, they have ive earlier theyve talked about the Campaign Part of it. Thats interesting to me if they get to the point to cohen about did the Campaign Come up weisselberg innovation for the Campaign Finance alleged Campaign Finance violations. Why weisselbergs name is coming up a lot, right now because hopkins youre saying was it typical for you to discuss financial matters with Allen Weisselberg . Cohen says its typical for everyone to discuss financial matters without Allen Weisselberg hoffinger asks whether a deal of this size. Now remember this is 150,000 that is going to be repaid to the tabloid empire, the National Enquirer, ami, which is hiring Karen Mcdougal and giving 150,000 in exchange for that, she gets a column that i dont think theres ever printed. Somebody else was going to write it for her, but again, it was never printed anyway. And she keeps quiet about her alleged longterm affair with donald trump happens. Youre saying 150,000 paid for donald trump to david pecker. Would that go through . Allen weisselberg and he says any deal goes through Allen Weisselberg, allen handled all the finances coming in and coming out. Whats the point of this . Lanny davis, if cohen says he has ten to 12 conversations with weisselberg about the mcdougal transaction. Weisselberg is not a witness in this case. Why hot document that was easy to dismiss the first time we saw, but its coming back. I warn you that in weisselbergs handwriting is the amount of money that Michael Cohen was paid and it was for the purpose of reimbursing the crime for which he went to prison and all the diminishment of this case should never have been brought. And all of the disparagement of the case forgets to things. Number one, Michael Cohen was prosecuted for that crime that people say, we shouldnt be worried about and went to prison for it for the hiding the hiding of the money money crime. Yeah. He wanted to Campaign Finance violation. The federal prosecutors prosecuted me, pled guilty and went to prison. And secondly, the federal prosecutors called the socalled political case that david mocks and Public Opinion polls that all, by the way, within the margin of error this is a case that federal prosecutors described on page 23 of their sentencing memo, asking for a longer sentence for Michael Cohen. They called it an impairment of our democracy my parents our democracy, yes. Thats federal prosecutors who worked for Donald Trumps justice department. So when i hear christian new york, i old rob because ami yeah. Berman. Yeah. So when i see even my old friend frehse, the for my alma mater saying this case should never been brought, excuse me. The case was brought against Michael Cohen by the federal government. They sent him to prison and they closed the importance of the case, not money for sex. They said, its about wealthy people buying silence, suppressing information right before an election. So i think we have that the memo that youre talking about, the handwritten document, and if we can bring that up here it is Michael Cohen. I cant really see it very well, 27 right . Anyway, thats weisselberg tan writing. Weisselbergs handwriting. And list all the money this is all the money that doing paid to michael Michael Cohen be reimbursed. Be reimbursed plus it was trued up by double the amount so that if hes paid double than the aftertax money is even. And the other money like a bonus admin paid, thats on the sheet. But when i first saw that in this room and i first realized that they had weisselbergs handwriting as evidenced. Thats why susan is asking so i because because there it is and Allen Weisselberg knows all about it. The day after cohen recorded that conversation with donald trump, hes testifying that he and another person at ami the tabloid kingdom texted and discussed possible names for the Shell Corporations that theyre setting up in delaware. And to eddys 0. 1 but prosecutors are trying to do here is corroborate Michael Cohen at every turn that page, a handwritten notes goes to the Stormy Daniels payments, which is coming up soon right now. Theyre talking about mcdougal, but that page of handwritten notes, prosecutors will argue this shows how they came up with the amount 420,000 to repay Michael Cohen for the one 30 that he paid to Stormy Daniels. Now have you notice throughout the morning, as often as possible, prosecutors are injecting texts, phone records, recordings to try to backup every piece of what Michael Cohen says because you want to be able as a prosecutor to present Michael Cohen to the jury is you dont need to take him in a vacuum at his word because what he says is backed up. I do want to make too horton points about land. Hes point about the Southern District of new york in the history of prosecuting Michael Cohen, what you said is correct. But number one, doj, the very same Southern District of new york, actually technically during the Biden Administration, the first couple of weeks of the Biden Administration had a series of internal meetings about do we now charge donald trump now that hes no longer the present . The individual one individual one. Do we turn individual one into federal defendant one . There was a series of internal deliberations, nonpolitical, and the decision was no. The other thing is its not quite correct. I know its become a little bit of a slogan. Its not quite correct to say Michael Cohen already went to prison for this. Its not quite for this michael coe, land and sea agrees. Michael cohen pled guilty to the federal Campaign Finance violation. Thats a part of the state crime charged here the prosecutors do have to show a Campaign Finance violation, but they also have to show falsification of Business Records that was actually not part of the charge against console. Its a distinction, but an important distinction so theyre, they used when cohen and Somebody Else at ami, the tabloid empire are texting and discussing possible names for trump for Michael Cohen, Shell Corporations and delaware. Theyre using the signal app to communicate. Cohen says prosecutors are showing a screenshot of possible names and calls made on signal. This is again, as weve been told by our attorneys, are panel here are our law firm to my left the idea that everything Michael Cohen says whenever and wherever possible prosecution attorneys are coming forward and saying, and here as evidenced of this that you just said, and here is evidence of that that you just said. Here is evidence of the phone call, even if they dont actually have the substance of the phone call, they are just trying to make it clear that hes not making the story up. Here is all the evidence behind it. A september 30, 2016 record shows an a me, employee messaged cohen. I will be at your office in a few minutes again, just trying to boost cohen story to say like everything hes saying has been adhered to the contours of the evidence and the facts in this case because they know kasie hunt and Daniel Rothstein and cohen signed the agreement to transfer the rights of the mcdougal story, but the agreement was ultimately never executed. We know that they know cohen formed the Company Resolution consultants, llc, you to handle the payment thats the Shell Corporation Resolution Consultants is one of the two he sets up. We know that they know that the defense is going to come at Michael Cohen like a hippo, like a rhino have you ever seen have you ever seen what they do its not a small thing your whole animals, they are theyre vicious. I dont even know this yes. Yes, i hippos are one of the nastiest creatures in the world anyway, they are going to come at him like a battering ram theyre going to go ahead on like a battering ram, that his credibility theyre about to introduce to that whenever they get their shot, theyre going to have like an hours worth of lies that Michael Cohen told the hippo is actually the unofficial mascot of myeloma mind i can pull you back, not yeah. I mean, look, this is what they were saying show followed up with documents at every turn with recordings with any sort of evidence that can show that well, in this case in this particular instance, Michael Cohen is telling the truth and this is the problem that we have gone back to this again and again and again about Michael Cohen being a flawed witness. I mean, one thing im curious im really watching four here too, is there are the technical issues of this, right . Did he actually lie . Is he telling the truth . Theres also this kind of broader picture about Michael Cohen as someone who has a vendetta against donald trump, and whether that undermines his credibility with the jury. And im not sure ive seen any here that thats going to be something that the defense is going to talk about. I have yet to see something where the prosecutors are addressing that really cool. Well do it at the end now for the end of the day, if not, the daytoday, the data tomorrow, they will bring up all of those things. Theres no question about that because they have to prepare the jury four, because this is a guy whos on tiktok like every night and he was wearing a tshirt that had what looked to be donald trump behind bars its not so Michael Cohen says the llc is purpose was quote, to use this entity for the assignment of the mcdougal matter as well as the other information that ami had about trump. Again Michael Cohen wanting to make sure david pecker is happy and is paid back by the spoiler alert. Hes never paid back because of all the other dirt david pecker had allegedly on Michael Donald trump, and so cohen in trying to make sure david pecker is happy is doing again the bidding of donald trump, whether donald trump knows it or not, two points, one, hippos kill 500 people a year. In africa. Leinz only kill 22 object will trampled to death. Anyone or anything that crosses. We have our own body of water. They dont sleep on it, but its actually very good. I dont sleep, dont sleep on hippos second of all, second of all, we have the we have the courtroom sketch of Christine Cornell. Then i want to show you. We brought your jane rosenbergs earlier and heres Christine Cornell. There we go. And so and then Michael Cohen in the jurors box there, and attorney Susan Hoffinger asking him questions. You see judge merchan, his hand in his face, in his hands as he often does. Donald trump looking down again there are a little Artistic License and thats alvin bragg. And in the foreground, a little Artistic License because Donald Trumps desk is actually not facing Michael Cohens. Its actually facing judge merchans. But again, these are artistic interpretations. We love the work of Christine Cornell. We love the work of Jane Rosenburg, but they artistic interpretations because new york apparently still thinks it is the year 18, 30, when it comes to broadcast capabilities and its courtrooms, anderson and jake, just to put the deadliness of hippos and perspective from memory, i remember that great whites only killed about six people every year. So hippos very very dangerous. Katelyn and paula are back with me. Asked me about im not going to ask you what synching Michael Cohen is now testifying has testified that he made that recording for david pecker. Does that make sense . The idea that Michael Cohen would record his employer and then play that recording to david pecker, a friend of his employer. Who would without now he didnt do this without Donald Trumps knowledge. And then david pecker would have david pecker said to donald trump, oh, you know, youre, youre i mean, if im a friend of Donald Trumps, i would say to him, your lawyer recorded you secretly. It strains credulity if it is true, it shows me be a lack of advanced planning or advanced thinking on Michael Cohens part, also not getting the provision from his boss. Its a moment that im sure jurors are going to pause and really contemplate what were during 25,000, not 150, because ami agreed the compensation to mcdougal for articles and covers was worth 25,000. So here theyre going through the details of the payment to Karen Mcdougal will actually received ultimately more than stormy Stormy Daniels. She he did not receive all of the hundred and 50,000. Her lawyer took a significant cut, nearly half. Now, the prosecutor asked cohen if he was planning to own the life rights to mcdougal story with the Michael Cohen recording, trump and saying that was the only time he ever recorded him. It is a question of how the jury looks on that. It also reminds me evan corcoran, trumps attorney, who was now departed his team because hes become a witness in the classified documents case. After meetings that he had with donald trump about the classified documents and the searches for them. He recorded his voice memos to himself, which a lot of attorneys have commented how rare that is, but it was it was it f since it its unclear what the intention was, but it protected him in a sense in this because he said that trump was the one instructing him to defy a subpoena. Right now, cohen is saying what he was doing, was it the direction for the benefit of mr. Trump . Obviously, Michael Cohen to a degree will benefit from the idea that he recorded donald trump in this conversation. Jury is now being shown the call logs showing trump and cohen spoke for seven minutes and 14 seconds on september 29, 2016. I mean, if Michael Cohen had said cohen said he led trump, know it was being taken care of and that the matter was being resolved. It might even go in and said, yeah, i was concerned. I knew this was important and i was i wanted to record this for my own protection. Just that would have been one thing this more credible, much more credible than this idea that he was going to show to david pecker that was usually if youre taking notes, a lot of folks thought that Michael Cohen go excuse me. Ive been corcoran was trying to protect himself, right. Cya, especially when you see what happens to so many of trumps lawyers. Its much more credible to say that you were trying to somehow protect your so then to protect someone else, particularly when you think of cohens loyalty to trump, how he viewed him. The fact that he would record trump without his knowledge to help or to appease david pecker. He doesnt quite make sense the other thing this goes back to though, is what they were arguing about before the jury was brought in the room this morning was the the prosecution wanted to be able to show the jury the severance agreement that Allen Weisselberg sayyed. Its basically an agreement where theres a list of conditions, but he would get 2 if he never spoke disparagingly about the Trump Organization. And that if he only complied with legal matters, if he was subpoenaed, that he never was compelled or volunteer to go and talk to investigators or prosecutors in any manner or shape or form obviously, they could have subpoenaed him here. The expectation you talk to people familiar with the prosecutors thinking here is that essentially he would have gotten on the stand and just pleaded the fit the whole time. But what Michael Cohen is testifying to is that Allen Weisselberg was deeply involved in every single deal, in every single agreement, the intimate details of this, i mean, he is the other missing in piece here that could really verify so much of what weve seen and what were hearing. Cohen is being shown the invoice from investor Advisory Services, amis, third entity used for the transaction. I mean, we were talking about this before the invoice describes a flat fee for Advisory Services having dress code, whether that was truthful, weve talked about it before, but again, Allen Weisselberg not testifying for the prosecution, not testifying at all is a huge gift for donald trump. It is a huge gift. And if youre a juror, youre asking why arent we hearing from Allen Weisselberg and thats why there was so much litigation at the end of the day friday, and the judge had to come in and weigh in on just how much the jury can hear about why hes not testifying. Now, this is significant because colin appear as much more relaxed on the stand. Hes looking at the jury while answering questions about the mcdougal deal. I think we said earlier, lets see how he does after the break because that was an opportunity for the prosecutors to really just pointed out to him that maybe hes not looking at the jury enough. And that is likely something he should start to do, is they try to build trust, particularly as we get to a part of the story that has not been corroborated by other witnesses and from Michael Cohen is really the only person who could speak to it. I want to turn to honor kaminsky issues. They address the criminal defense clinic at new York Law School and adam kaufman, his back, his former prosecutor in the manhattan District Attorneys Office and im wondering what you make of Michael Cohen claiming that this audio recording, he seemed really made of his client, donald trump, was was to be played ultimately or given to david pecker the show pecker that he was going to be repaid. Does that make sense to you well, anderson, theres a lot of things about this case that dont make sense and theres a lot of things about this that are quite unique. Typically, attorneys do not record their clients. And so that is not unique at all. Its also strange as ive listened to do you discuss this morning, it is strange to hear that he would be recording his client to play for someone else. But on the other hand, as weve seen with cohen, nothing that he does see seems to be within the normal bounds of how an attorney usually behaves isnt i mean, i dont want to harp on this but what does make sense is Michael Cohen recording heres this important conversation with donald trump to use its future leverage or as to protect himself down the road if this thing goes south as it did you know, whats interesting about this as sort of thinking as an attorney, right how do you deal with a client who perhaps you dont trust . Or you are worried that maybe doing something to break the law. And i think whats actually unique here is if i was in a situation where i was concerned about an interaction with a client, i would record that conversation. I would have there been another witness to that conversation, be that a paralegal or a secretary or another colleague of mine, but i certainly wouldnt record it. I might record it on a piece of paper. You know what the interaction was, but this i mean, this is really outside of the normal interaction that you see between a client and attorney. But as i just said, weve really seen all sorts of things with their relationship have you have there been any moments in particular so far that you think were especially damaging for the defense or for the prosecution . Well with respect to cohen, were just hes just sort of getting warmed up, so to speak, you know, the prosecutions just starting to dig in into this. And whats what struck me so far the in the sort of the positive column for the prosecutors is that from the reports that were getting based on how hes been behaving in court, how cohen has been behaving in court. He hasnt been the loose cannon would that we thought he would be and hes a very dangerous witness. For the prosecution because if he says something thats really outside the bounds of the trial, he could cause a mistrial. And so the prosecutors have to be very careful as they, navigate this with him. On the other hand, he is a great witness, so to speak, for the defense because theres just so much going against him and weve yet to see see that cross unfolds it. Michael kahn said he was a london for his daughters birthday, wedding anniversary when he became aware of the access Hollywood Tape is the first man mentioned. Weve heard of the access Hollywood Tape so far today with Michael Cohen, adam, im wondering what you make of how Michael Cohen has done so far well, i mean, so far its the easy part, right . So far so good. No crossexamination look, i shared the skepticism about the story of recording his client to share with pecker an attorney wouldnt do that, right . Youre waving privilege by sharing this conversation with a third party. And i agree with you, it would have made sense from to say i was protecting myself down the road taking, it a step further, if im the Defense Attorneys, im listening to that tape and im hearing im all over this. I got this and then couple that with his recording it for himself. And im building that to make the case that Michael Cohen just went off and did whatever Michael Cohen did donald trump. No evidence that donald trump knew about it. Then i would couple that with the fact theyre not calling weisselberg. And thats a big hole in the case. I wonder theres something in the law called an ad missing Witness Charge. And missing Witness Charge comes at the end of the case and its a chore charge and instruction from the judge to the jury that said the prosecution should have called this witness and they didnt. And you, members of the jury are allowed if you want to, you dont have to, but youre allowed to consider whether this witness would have testified in a manner adverse to what the prosecution is claiming coming and so now im wondering if were going to get into a missing Witness Charge because weisselberg is not there and how that plays out well talk about why you think that prosecution didnt call alla weisselberg. I asked this question of a number of people over the last and most of the answers i got were, well, they dont know what hes going to testify to that he hes gone to jail for donald trump. He could have given testimony against trump and probably avoided a jail sentence. Hes actually in jail right now. Yeah. Thats a huge i mean, it would be hugely risky. Its almost if you do and if you dont, for the prosecution, i mean, hes obviously a witness with knowledge at the center of the case he has remained steadfastly loyal to mr. Trump a lot of times with a witness like that, you can put them in the grand jury and freeze their testimony. In other words, you can get them under oath. You can question them up down and sideways but in the state of new york, if you do that, you give immunity to the witness complete immunity. They cant be prosecuted for whatever the conduct is. So its either very boxed in for the prosecution, and i think they had to just make a judgment call that putting him on the stand a witness who is sympathetic to donald trump and who they dont have the ability to control was to greater risk are they bringing in the access Hollywood Tape now, just bolster the prior testimony about the impact the access Hollywood Tape had on trump world prosecutors previously shared this email chain to jurors during hope hicks testimony adam, do you think thats why theyre showing the theyre having this testimony from Michael Cohen because they want him to testify to the bombshell that it was in trump world. Yeah, definitely. Again, its part of trying to lay the foundation to tie this into concerns about the election not that it was concerns about his family. And were going to see evidence from the defense that there was deep concern about the family. So the impact that access hollywood had on the outlook for the election becomes crucial in laying the groundwork for what was going on at the time the Stormy Daniels hush money came up Michael Cohen wrote to see bannon, who was a current into campaign on october 7, saying its all over the place, whos doing damage control here . Cohen says he wanted to ensure that things are being taken care of properly and that trump would the would be protected honore, what is to you the significance of cohen weighing in on access Hollywood Well you know i agree with whats already been said. I mean, what the prosecutors have to do is they have to prove up that underlying crime and i dont mean that they have to prove that a crime was committed, but they have to show some evidence. There has to be something to show that there was this conspiracy to corrupt the election. And so one of the ways that they he do that is by showing how damaging that tape was. And more importantly, how it affected the inner circle and how it affected trump and cohen obviously is someone whos going to speak thank directly to that cohen said that he was in london october 8 when he had several calls with hope hicks, including one call that trump actually joined anna and adam. Thank you so much. Appreciate your perspectives on this busy morning. Cohen also spoke separately to trump that day he said as back with paula reid here and Kaitlan Collins outside 100 Centre Street, the phone logs which were admitting to having his last week show two calls were made. One thing that was interesting that happened just before they got to the fallout of the access Hollywood Tape was Michael Cohen was explaining why he believed david pecker backed off of demanding repayment for Karen Mcdougal, why you wanted them to pay him back and Michael Cohen says that david pecker decided hed actually been a good deal for the company that it had helped them the jury already heard, though, from david pecker, who actually testified. He was worried he was committing a crime. Hed spoke to his attorneys, has General Counsel, he himself personally researched Campaign Finance its violations and he was so worried that that payment to Karen Mcdougal could have constituted it Campaign Finance violation that he backed off wanting repayment from to be reimbursed from trump world. And so thats fixed to just the environment that theyre operating in as the access Hollywood Tape is happening. And now its coming down to mike go cohen to be the one who is responsible for footing the bill for Stormy Daniels on on her behalf. And these are calls that are happening as trump and cohen were speaking because Michael Cohen was in london when the access Hollywood Tape came out and steve bannon, who was running the Trump Campaign at the hi was monitoring and managing the fallout. Cohen recall stepping out of genuine family and friends and lenten take the calls with trump and at the time a lot of people, even and some of his most loyal, loyal advisers thought the access Hollywood Tape met game over for trumps chances of getting the white house. So hearken back to Michael Cohens earlier testimony. Were trump said there will likely be a lot of women coming out if i run for office. Now cohen said of trump, he wanted me to reach out to all the contacts in the media. We need to put a spin on this. So here calling, helping him spin the story in the media, post access Hollywood Tape concerns about stories coming out, anything about illicit Sexual Activity with women outside of his marriage, suddenly become a huge priority to suppress in the days ahead of the election. And the idea that it had no impact on the campaign, as Madeleine Westerhout, who was a lower ranking official so at the rnc testified to last week is just beyond belief because really what was happening here is trope was sitting down on his advisers asking whether or not he was going to need to drop out or lose the election, Reince Priebus was one of the ones who told him that he was going to lose the election in a landslide at that time, steve bannon was one im encouraged him to stay on, but it was this moment where they when hes having people reach out to the media, they put out this rumor to reporters that they needed to really Pay Attention to what trump said before that debate on sunday that you moderated because he may drop out of the race and then that was when donald trump broth the bill Clinton Accusers in it speaks to just how they handle this media environment and how they didnt know how to handle this kind of something of this magnitude, but how they were spinning reporters and trying to get them to think it was going to be one thing. So they put attention on it and then it turned out to be something they believed would help them Michael Cohen saying something that meloni had had recommended or at least he told me thats what millennia had thought. It was. The jury is now being shown texts between cohen and chris cuomo, who at that point was at at at cnn so here cohen actively involved in spinning a very damaging stories soon to be involved in suppressing are with his own money and the credibly damages in the days ahead of the election, all of this speaks again to how this is upgraded as a felony, because while hes not charged with inferiorly the election, that is what prosecutors have alleged. Now, cohen said he received calls for many contacts and the press, of course, it was a huge story, but notable, its been unclear. Most people said no, cohen didnt have an official role in the campaign. But here hes acting as an official spin doctor during one of the biggest crisis they face. So this is so interesting. The moment we just missed the update about Melania Trump, Michael Cohen is saying it was Melania Trumps idea to say that the act it says Hollywood Tape the words that trump used on that tape, were were locker room talk. We dont know if thats true. This is Michael Cohens testimony of what he claims donald trump told him. But but it is notable that that moment when everyone is watching to see on meloni to trump would handle that, that it was actually her idea to say that that was just locker room talk and undercuts the defenses argument that all of this was to protect his family when his family here is well aware of is extra curricular activities and perhaps trying to help him tamp down the store to win the white house according is quite damaging. They wanted comment. I actually did the interview with Melania Trump when she spoke the first interview after that tape, and she reiterated those that phrase, i believe if memory serves me correct, locker room talk again we have had testimony before about the impact of this tape on the campaign. Hope hicks testified she was the one who first got the inquiry from fahrenthold, who at that point was that the Washington Post . Hes now your times asking for comment. She testified that she was concerned very concerned, i think was returned i mean, that seemed to be an understatement. Its certainly from hope hicks. It seemed like opex was being conservative and how she was describing it based on her actions it was a fivealarm fire. Absolutely. One of the biggest crises that any campaign has ever faced. And if you put yourself in the context of that time, again to get people like Kellyanne Conway and others, they believed that this was probably going to prevent him from entering the white house. And so the reason is significant in the context of this criminal case is the campaign at this moment is under such enormous pressure here. Michael cohen is trying to do anything within his power to help spin this story in a favorable way. And we know in a matter of days they are going to get now pressure from Stormy Daniels to pay her for his her story and what cohen has done very successfully so far for prosecutors is established just how aware trump us of all these damaging stories, how involved he was in these efforts to suppress them. Now can he do that . Once we get to the Stormy Daniels repayment, hes the leader of the free world is signing checks at his desk. Can they prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt he knew what was going on with the ledger. I dont know. Its not clear, but up until now through the other stories, Michael Cohen has been a his and witness for prosecutors, but we havent gotten to the tough part yet, and it does make you wonder if the access Hollywood Tape and never come out, if it never whoever leaked it to the Washington Post and provided it. And as Michael Cohen is saying, it was going to be significantly impactful especially with women voters whether the Stormy Daniels deal ever happened because it was the access Hollywood Tape and upward over that that is what fueled them ultimately to pay Stormy Daniels the money because before they had balked at the idea of giving a sixfigure deal. The access Hollywood Tape change that. Lets go back to jake. Can dc tj. All right. Anderson, thanks so much. I want to bring in will scharf right now. Hes an attorney for donald trump, not involved in the hush money case. Hes also a republican candidate in the Missouri Attorney Attorney Generals race. Good to see you. Well, so Michael Cohen testified that donald trump knew about the karen and reimbursement. Shes paton 150,000 by American Media incorporated. And then there was discussion of donald trump reimbursing them according to cohen trump said, dont worry, ill take care of it. Do you think thats damaging for mr. Trump . Ill say this. John henry wig more once said that crossexamination is the greatest legal engine ever invented for the discovery of the truth. I think its relatively easy for a witness to present a compelling case on direct after months and months and months of prep. The real test of all of this testimony will be under crossexamination. And what we have is weve said repeatedly in Court Pleadings is a witness here who has is a serial perjure who has been found liable for perjury on numerous previous occasions. Thats all going to come out. The solidity of this story will continue to weaken over time. And i think well see that play out in court in the coming days. Whenever they could. The prosecution has made sure to bring forth evidence beyond Michael Cohens word, to bolster the narrative that hes telling whether it is records of phone calls an audio recording of cohen speaking with mr. Trump document written by Allen Weisselberg. Cohen has reviewed it with just in court right now. Cohen is reviewing an email from dylan howard saying he deleted a 2008 story, donald trump playboy man, i guess that that had been up on the whatever National Enquirer website or whatever. But in any case, what about the fact that they are bolstering wherever they can . Cohens testimony with more concrete evidence over the question, jake is what theyre bolstering at the end of the day. This is not a hush money trial. This is not a tabloid trial. This is a Business Records fraud trial, and we barely have one iota of evidence introduced over the last two weeks, including today, that President Trump committed any Business Records for odd, much less proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt which is the evidentiary quantum that the prosecution is obviously required to meet here so to me, all of this smacks of the distraction, the smoke and mirrors campaign weve been seeing since the start of this trial. Were talking about a very simple alleged offense here at the heart of the matter, which is Business Records for odd and nobody seems to have any evidence whatsoever that President Trump committed Business Records fraud, i believe because he didnt that he actually did nothing wrong here so are you arguing that Michael Cohen didnt pay Stormy Daniels the 130,000 that he didnt set up the Shell Corporations to do so, the donald trump didnt reimburse him or that donald trump didnt know what he was reimbursing him for. What exactly are you suggesting . So what the prosecution has to prove here is that President Trump ordered entries in his personal ledger to be made, that those entries were not just inaccurate, but that were fraudulent, that were made with fraudulent intent. And they also have to prove that the reason for those fraudulent business entries was to cover up another felony the now, the Felony Offense that theyre alleging is this somewhat nebulous electionrelated conspiracy. But at heart of this case is still that Business Records fraud issue. Did President Trump order entries to be made in his personal ledger with fraudulent intent to cover up another crime. And i just dont think weve seen any evidence of that so far from cohen or any of the other witnesses. And unless the prosecution can prove that basic fact Beyond A Reasonable Doubt this case should be a directed acquittal. If it makes it to the jury, the jury should certainly acquit. Thats i think the situation that were dealing with here. We have this smoke and mirrors camera in pain by the prosecution to pollute the jury. The jurys understanding of this case with a lot of irrelevant, highly prejudicial material. But we havent really heard much about whats at the core of this case, which is Business Records, fraud all right. Well, scharf, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciated attorney George Conway is back here with us he is a donor to bidens reelection campaign, which should note george, your reaction to will scharf. I could sense that you didnt agree with him. Yeah. I mean, i think a lot of it is nonsense. I mean, i think if if he gets a hung jury here and i think hes not going to get an acquittal. I think its going to be because somebody does not make that connection between trump and these records. But the problem for the defense is he signed some of the checks he paid very close attention to things that were expenditures made on his behalf. We heard the testimony about about a madeleine alsahaba and then 600 dollars for whatever it was and we hear hes going to he he looked at these things in backup from the checks that he was signed in, they had backup honore, the fake invoice. What it was for and the point about it is its not about the trump talking points here. What your hear from a lot of the lawyers seems to invasive that unless he was there at the computer, any click that on the dropdown menu a false. He did it himself. Then. Beyond a reasonable doubt, acquittal. Thats just not the case that the statute says. Did he cause this to happen . And if you look at the entirety of the evidence not look at the way a Defense Lawyers and spin mice, theres look at it, which isnt take every little piece and not connect the dots its we cant figure out what the alternative theory is. The alternative theory that would allow a jury to say well, we have all these facts, theyre not really disputed. I think we heard one of the Trump Lawyers say its not the facts really honors whats theyre innocent explanation for this . There is none. So right now, whats going on in the courtroom . Cohens describing settling the Karen Mcdougal matter. And then he testifies that dylan howard, the editor in chief the National Enquirer tells him that Stormy Daniels, the Adult Film Actress and director, is out looking to sell her story about trump asked, what kind of impact Stormy Daniels story would have on the Campaign Cohen says catastrophic. This is horrible for the campaign joining us down to discuss republican congresswoman nicole maale, a takas of new york, who was inside the courtroom this morning. Congresswoman, thanks for joining us. What was it like inside the courtroom . How does the former president s seem and why are you there . Well. Im here today to support President Trump. I think that he is facing a sham situation you that is very politically motivated. You have a District Attorney who is going after him for political reasons. This is remember a matter that the fec federal Elections Commission said there was nothing real crime here. The doj, no crime. Sayyed vance, the former District Attorney, no crime yet alvin bragg, who by the way, in new york city, people are so concerned about crime, about illegal immigrant gang members, about a repeat offenders on our streets. He either reduces or drops charges on all these repeat offenders in new york were committing crimes and yet hes going after the former president of political opponent for a chromosome even within its jurisdiction or crime that even mattered. And so happens. So that is why im here to support the president didnt against what i think is a sham trial. In the mood, he look, hes in good spirits. I think hes obviously unhappy that he has to spend in his time in a dreary, cold courtroom us away from his supporters, away from the campaign trail. But thats what this is about. Its designed to keep him off the case campaign trail to keep them stuck in manhattan. Or the time when he could should be out campaigning around the country, talking about President Bidens failed agenda. The fact that we have an open border with millions of people coming in, including gang members and drug smugglers. The fact that we have high inflation thats continued high gas prices. But American Families are struggling to put food on the table. Thats what the president should be doing right now. But instead, because of a District Attorney who wants to politically persecute him, hes here and this courtroom so what exactly are you suggesting when you call this a sham trial . Are you saying that donald trump did not have this moment with Stormy Daniels that he did not pay her hush money or that he did not falsify records about it . So what exactly are you suggesting he is innocent of what im suggesting is that there was no crime committed here and so far, the prosecution has failed to make a connection. And remember today is the star witness. Michael cohen is testifying, and this is somebody who is a convicted disbarred perjury hes lived before congress. Hes can actually admitted to a lying. Hes putting pled guilty and been convicted of lying. And that is the star witness. And to being here today, i havent heard anything that makes any type of connection that some type of crime was committed by the former president all right. Congresswoman melia takas from new york. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it were back here and george, youre your response to the congresswoman who we should i seem to know by the way, voted to undermine the biden win and you can just see, i mean, theyre all working off the same talking port its i mean, theyre saying exactly the same thing. And the fact of the matter is i want to make a political point here. Ive already made the legal point a look whole point here is that oh, this is terrible says is designed to keep him off the campaign trail. Will actually, if you look at it politically in my judgment, this is helping him politically in the following sense. It is keeping him from being on television say all the crazy things that he was like in wild would the other day they show in wild would new jersey . I wish it had been broadcast on this network and all the other networks lives, so everybody could see how crazy he was hes, he, this is actually helping him politically by keeping the attention away from the nutty things he says and does. So. I mean, i think thatll change if theres a jury conviction here, but i think its not necessarily hurting him politically at this moment at this time. So in the courtroom right now, just to get you up to speed. This is what Michael Cohen is telling the story of dylan howard from the his yoder and chief National Enquirer in 2016. Contacts Michael Cohen, tells him Stormy Daniels, the Adult Film Actress and director is out there shopping her story and cohen, things that would be catastrophic in his words, horrible for the campaign. Thats important prosecution lies horrible for the campaign, not horrible for Donald Trumps marriage, but horrible for the campaign is his first reaction. Boss, ive got to speak to you. He told trump, according to cohen i told him that one of the things that we need to do is obviously take care care of trump said, oh, absolutely do it. Take care of it cohen said that trump told him about meeting with Stormy Daniels cohen says trump told him women prefer mr. Trump even over someone like big ben, thats a reference to Ben Roethlisberger from the pittsburgh steelers. Cohen says who was at the same Golf Tournament and like tahoe, sorry if youre not as up to speed, is people like me who have now been forced to know that story. Cohen says he heard nothing about the daniels matter between 2011 and learning from dylan howard that her story had resurfaced. Jeff zeleny is joining us and here is the crux of the matter. Cohen has been shown more Taxi Exchange with dylan howard from the National Enquirer. He puts his glasses on before he reads the text for the jury this is actually what the trial is about. Michael cohen covering up the Stormy Daniels matter and the falsification of Business Records. It is. I mean, its document case. Its not a sex case, per say, or anything else to georges point about the politics of this, there is some evidence of that and i was talking to a trump adviser this morning. The reason that the senators and the Iowa Attorney general and the congresswoman are in the courtroom there because the campaign put out an all call to anyone with any connection to new york or Law Enforcement or in an official light capacity to come and join him at the trial. We know hes been very upset that hes been alone on sundays. All that has changed now. So seeing the Iowa Attorney general, who endorsed him and is eager, obviously, for a potential appointments should he win . I thought that was very interesting. Today is different in that respect. He is surrounded by people who adore him. Yeah. And its not hard to see the math of a republican official, Attorney General, iowa, i want to run for senate or governor in two years, four years. Here is a chit im earning with donald trump that well come back for sure, loyal to him. Maybe hell help you out down the road good for sure. It has nothing to do with this case really, but as far as the jury is seeing other people around, it could have some effect, who knows. But the point here is, this is the crux of the case and were about to get two more of Michael Cohens involvement, his time at the white house that day in february, i remember well, him walking into the white house were like, what are you doing here . Its kind of odd because im he famously was not hired in the Trump White House even though he told many of us he might be what else council, of course, that also didnt have Michael Cohen right now is reading an october 10, 2016 text. Dylan howard, the editor in chief of the National Enquirer, sent to both cohen and also Keith Davidson, who was the attorney for both Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels. He had just also mentioned cohen says he told howard about the name of the Shell Corporation that he set up. So now youre inside one month to the election, right . October 10, 2016. Youre inside a month the election, the point you just made with jeff just tells you how many times have we had this conversation . Should you just said the math makes sense for an Iowa Attorney general republican to come to trial. You are absolutely correct but at times, remount how many times at that point october 10, 2016, most republicans that dont trump is going to lose the election. He won the election. Then after, after so many other things, including january 6 at the end of his term, republicans said, we are done with him were done with him, were washing our hands. If we wanted to go away, even when he started to run again this time, there were a lot of republicans who stayed back a bit saying maybe this isnt real. Do we have to do this . Now, you are absolutely correct because he is the presumptive nominee and the polling shows that as of this moment hes at an even odds, maybe even a little better than even odds. Canada chance to win back the white house as of today, six months to go. And republicans are running into embrace him again including many republicans to you could find on the record on television in statements to reporters, in newspapers saying, never again, im done with it. In fact, after the access its tape came out even people on his campaign wouldnt go out to defend him on the sunday shows. You, Rudy Giuliani, did Rudy Giuliani was the iron man of defending trump on sunday shows or any Cable Network really, or any network period. Cohen says the Business Opportunity referenced in the text was the acquisition of the life rights of Stormy Daniels. So again, jamie again, god they are talking very clearly, very directly. Cohen Michael Cohen as an emissary for donald trump, dylan howard with the National Enquirer, Keith Davidson and emissary for stewart Stormy Daniels, and previously Karen Mcdougal talking about, again, Hush Money Payments. Lets just say it again. And this is october late october, the timing is critical. Weve about two weeks to the election. I just i keep bringing up hope hicks because if you go back and look at her testimony, its theory so much there about the access Hollywood Tape and how damaging it was politically and the political fallout, by the way, that hes keeping trump informed of all of this as its going on, quote, that was what i always did, which was to keep them abreast of everything. Cohen says of trump. Cohen testifies that trump was mad at him during this period. What she went on to lie about later, he was asked about an air force one if he knew about this and he said he did not. Catherine lucy, then at the Associated Press now with the wall street journal, asked the president directly that on worst one and he did not not not like a few. Sure. Not at this moment, but this weeks lab, a couple of years later, he said he didnt know about it at this moment when the story breaks is story breaks into 2017 or 2000 know the Stormy Daniels story breaks. When the Karen Mcdougal is right before the election. For sure. But in 2017, he was asked about to knowing about the payment and he said he did know about it. Youll have to ask Michael Cohen it is what the present this is why donald trump was mad at them according to Michael Cohen, trumps says, i thought you had this under control. I thought you took care of this trump briefly looked up at cohen on the Witness Stand, so he is doing some brief looking up whats really interesting. The two guests that were on a moment ago, theres no evidence whatsoever in one as far as to say that there ought to be directed acquittal, which defense would move four if the prosecution had established no evidence whatsoever. This is all incredibly persuasive evidence. Now, does it rise of the reasonable doubt standard that will remain to be seen later on at trial. But you have Shell Companies reimbursements entries, and records, and corroboration in the form of documents all being presented in front of the jury now, again, how persuasive it is is an open question, but this notion thats beginning push that theres simply no evidence being submitted here and they ought to just pack up and walk home is just nonsense. So before i throw it to anderson, just a couple of notes of whats being said in court right now. So trump is mad at cohen when he tells him about the Stormy Daniels story. I thought you had this under control. I thought you took care of this. Trump says to him, trump says, just take care of it. Cohen says there was a lot going on at the campaign at the time. Just take care of it coincide when cohen says this trump, he looks at trump and the Defense Table. Cohen continues, were counting from trump, women are going to hate me guys may think its cool, but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign. Cohen said he told me to work with david. Thats david pecker who ran the ceo of American Media incorporated and get control over this anderson jake. Thanks very much and we are closing in on this morning session. Theyll take a break. I usually around 1 00 for lunch. Theyll be more obviously this testimony its afternoon here with paula reid and Kaitlan Collins. Michael cohen says he told me to work with david and get control over this. Were really just getting into the Stormy Daniels tail. Yeah were starting to get into the facts that are material to the criminal charges here. Its actually a pretty appropriate place for them to do their lunch, kind of an intermission. And we will come back then the testimony comes critical, talking about how exactly he facilitated this payment to Stormy Daniels and any involvement that trump had, any conversation he has with trump . Around setting up that llc giving a hush money to Stormy Daniels, and then even more importantly, for this case, what happens after that once trump is in the white house, this is going to be the critical time testimony. Most of what weve heard so far, weve heard before many times from Michael Cohen, from other witnesses, but we could start to get some new details, some new material when they come back from lunch and its unclear right now if this will be able to wrap up today, or prosecutors will have to go through tomorrow that comment about his concern with certain voters and certain demographics. And he said that men wont really care, but he said women will hate me for this. Thats important testimony because as the defense is going to argue thank you trump was just trying to protect his family and his relationship with the first lady upcoming for slighty at this point, she was just misses trump. And so essentially the argument that Michael Cohen is saying is that trump had voters in mind as he was concerned about the fallout from the Stormy Daniels is important. Cohen says that trump told him, i want you to just put push it out as long as you can just get past the election, which is exactly what Keith Davidson testified that they were worried about and it Stormy Daniels told them to nulla nulla via its at trump says, cohen is saying that trump told him because if i win, it will have no relevance because im president. And if i lose i dont really care. Cohen says he wasnt even thinking about melania. This was all about the campaign. Trump smirks and shakes his head. Trump is noticeably paying more attention as they are getting seeing into this backandforth. Hes looked up at the towards the Witness Stand, which shove already had not been doing. Ive been going through papers and looking at the screens and closing his eyes. Michael cohen has also looked in the direction of the Defense Table a few times, which as weve noted, the witness cant actually see trump unless they lean forward. Michael cohen said that, quote, donald trump was even thinking about melania. This was all well about his campaign that he raised millennia to donald trump. And trump said, dont worry, how long do you think ill be on the market for not long oh oh, thats basically Michael Cohen saying that troubles are essentially arguing that if Melania Trump was upset over this to leave him that it wouldnt be problem, for him he find a fourth wife or fourth girlfriend. Thats what it seems to be insinuating there. Thats how i read that. Yeah. I callas comments, if you interesting to see from our reporters inside how trump response to that. I mean, reminder Michael Cohen wouldnt have lunch with Melania Trump after he lied to her about the Stormy Daniels and karen google stuff to apologize to her when he testified to congress, he said one of his biggest regrets was lying to the first lady because he said that she was a good person and that she didnt deserve it. But he was saying as lying on on Donald Trumps behalf. I mean it is a question of how belonging to trump, who is been paying attention to this trial. Ive been told by sources, hello . Ill show react to a comment like that from Michael Cohen. Were donald trump is saying, not only am i not also worried about melania and the campaign, im not worried about melania. Trumps reaction to this at all. Im only worried about the campaign. That is what Michael Cohen is testifying in front of the jury right now. Im going to show me an email from davidson and the attorney for Stormy Daniels, which includes an attachment of the initial Settlement Agreement between daniels and trump from October 10 2016 thats one of the most remarkable moments that we have seen in this testimony so far. Yeah. Michael cohen thing that donald trump was saying, i can get another wife easily. Essentially, both of the really good new moments that weve gotten from Michael Cohen are his comment about melania being the genesis of the law welker room talk talking point. And then this comment about not being concerned if you get divorced, then you find another girlfriend or another wife. I mean, thats pretty quickly damaging for the defense when they are potentially, well see how to handle it, but for them to make their argument that he was just trying to protect his marriage by doing this . Yeah, absolutely. And again, its its also so another example of how his familys presence, if more of his children or melania, where to attend, that could help bolster his carrying about his family, his relationship with his family, but only son eric because shown up for a few days and thats something that the jury notices. So yeah, this is all really helpful for the prosecution. It is remarkable to me that his family i mean, i get Melania Trump not showing up but i mean donald trump jr. I dont know what he does all day, but i mean where is he in this trial or ivanka from . Michael cohen testifies that by october 11th, he and davids didnt headon already agreed on the terms of the agreement, eric trump has showed up several times. Yeah, he has five adult children. Barron is, of course, are finishing up high school. You may understand why he doesnt show up at eric trump to shut up about a few different days. We have not seen any of the other three adult children, one of them, donald trump jr. I think you said its not been there. Yeah. He has not been there. Its unclear if he could be called as a witness, but its a five to sixweek trial. They could show up once while they could have a rotation. The fact that they have not shown up, i mean, that doesnt help. So im gonna make or break the case, but it doesnt help that add one to say its not surprising that Melania Trump is not there. It is a given, i think weve all understood how she operates and how she handles this but it is not normal for you typically, when there is a politician involved in a scandal of a sexual nature like this, you always kinda see the doting wife by there, side supporting them but theyre press conferences that their statements, Melania Trump obviously has chosen a very different route. But the fact that shes not there, you to the jury doesnt know all of that. So for the jury to look out and to see this and to see that i want to jump if she was seated in that first row where she would be in direct, clear view of the jury it could have an impact on the jury. So it is noticeable that shes choosing not to do that, which get back to jake. Jake thanks so much and obviously, the introduction of this testimony by Michael Cohen, that donald trump had a rather glib response when asked about how Melania Trump might respond to Stormy Daniels allegation is elie honig, correct me if im wrong to underscore that this payment and the Hush Money Cover Up of the payment was about the campaign and not about the marriage. And just to remind people, cohen said that when he asked about how melania was going to respond, he said something along of like, how long do you think ill be on the market for not long. Cohen says, and this is cohens characterization. He wasnt thinking about melania. This was all about the campaign. And then were having introduction of emails from Keith Davidson, Stormy Daniels, attorney, which includes the attachment of the initial settlement between daniels and trump. This is october 10, 2016, literally, just a few weeks, three weeks maybe before the president ial election. By october 11th, ten davidson have already agreed to the terms, including 130,000 sum, the liquidated damages clause of 1 million per violation. The coen said thats his idea. Cohen says it was his idea to include predict punitive damages clause penalizing Stormy Daniels if she violated the agreement to ensure that she didnt speak. So this is all about this is just the campaign thats exactly the point that prosecutors are trying to make through Michael Collin here. Donald trump was worried about the campaign. He couldnt care less according to Michael Cohen, about what velocity would do. And even if she divorced him, he said, well, how long do you think before them . Napped up is . Im sort of eligible bachelor. Now, were on a really important moment right here because Michael Cohen is about to enter into the agreement with Stormy Daniels and her lawyers, the nondisclosure agreement, the hush money agreement, and one thing that im really looking for is why did they do it in the sort of unusual way they did it where Michael Cohen first pays 130 he thousand dollars of his own money that he draws out of his mortgage. And then later get reimbursed actually wondering landing before we get out, let me just say Michael Cohen is reiterating he was purposely delaying the funding to daniels hoping to push off this issue until after the election. Go ahead more along those lines that it was a kant says, i was following director sections, quote, i was following directions. The directions being, i guess the vague vague direction from donald trump take care of this now with the implication that the obviously cant the campaign was front and center. And thats the crucial part of Michael Cohens testimony because theres no question Michael Cohen was dealing with Stormy Daniels and her lawyer, Keith Davidson. Theres no question they had texts and signed the agreement the key part here is Michael Cohen tying it to donald trump. I do wonder if you know, maybe you can give us all the preview. What is michaels explanation going to be a why he first paid with his own personal money and then later was reimbursed. I can see that plane for or against either side here. Well, first of all, trump did not want to make the payment himself and michael good. What trump wanted him to do to protect trumps. So if he makes the payment, its not traceable. Trump thinks to himself, the other thing to remember the corroborating evidence is pecker and dylan howard. They have emails and Text Messages about Stormy Daniels when she resurfaces and she does call the National Enquirer. So theyre involved in pushing trump to pay and hes waiting and waiting and waiting until the last two weeks. And the timing also shows us political motivation lets be clear. The first crime has to show political motivation. Have we had any evidence that he was worried about melania a little bit . No good psalm, not none. I havent heard. Maybe i missed it at any testimony that he was worried he didnt want millennia to see the newspaper in the morning. He asked them not having the newest paper delivers. Im not saying it overwhelms the campaign evidence, but there is something we were talking about, john john edwards. I was talking about john edwards earlier because of the role of the National Enquirer, quite a different role of the National Enquirer, which uncovered that extra marital situation as suppose to the ones that theyre trying to cover up here. But how much does the prosecution has to prove . Because the issue of whether john edwards was doing that and all the Campaign Finance laws were allegedly being violated. Was john edwards lawyer argued he was just trying to hide this from his wife and his children. How much does the prosecution has to prove that this is like 51 campaign related, 49 . Another, nobody knows the answer to that because we have so little precedent. So a jury would have to regard it as a significant part of the motivation, whatever is significant means, just significant. Thats whatever it means. And in the john edwards case, because of the cancer and the absence of all of the corroborating testimony we have here about its about the campaigns that david pecker. Its about the campaigns at hope hicks we have almost everyone saying this is about the Campaign Paid the money. Its going to hurt you in that campaign if there was a reference to melania, i missed it, but it wasnt as serious a reference in the evidence that they were worried about the campaign and the timing is really telling you everything they heard from Stormy Daniels right after access hollywood when she knew that they were valuable. Thats when david pecker said weve heard from Stormy Daniels. Shes back and then they waited two weeks as michael testifies and theyve testified and trump wasnt ready. And finally, as the election is about, his michael up to protect himself to answer your question now, yeah. So expect the defense to hammer that one sentence there what am the one sentence . Because if i went it will have no relevance because im president because right there, that is the most compelling evidence thus far establishing the link that you all are talking about right here. This idea that the actions were taken to benefit the campaign. I would think the defense will really go afternoon about this is really right now what you have is one witnesss memory forget all of this about the prior convictions and so on. Its just him im trying to remember a conversation he would have had. What what is this back in 2016. And thats inherently subject to lapses in memory bias. And so on. And i think this will be a really important part of the crossexamination. What to what degree do you think lanny davis i mean, obviously, the defense is going to hammer home the idea. You cannot take this unprecedented step of finding a former president guilty of a crime based on the words of Michael Cohen. I mean you can almost write it for them to what extent do you think the jury is going to be susceptible to that message . I think the prosecution does, but i saw them do for months and months and months, which is concoct create all this evidence to backup Michael Cohen, there would be a problem in the prosecutions case. As i watched them construct their case, everything that mike the goal was saying, they found documents to support. So what i said from the very beginning is that the corroboration of everything that Michael Cohen has testified to is very strong and its more than just one sentence. There are witnesses, david pecker, hope hicks were the two i remember that say this was about the campaign im just saying when a witness comes in with a direct quote and an incredibly incriminating, its compared to the rest of their lives. I think we largely agree i actually think this case is over as to the motivation of the payment. It was about the campaign, the issue that the prosecution phases is trumps knowledge or he knew but was blind to the knowledge of the booking of the expense as falsely booked as a Legal Expense, did did the prosecution good . Michael cohen as far as you know, any indication how long . They think that their direct questioning of him will go before the fence gets their chance at the cross. So we guessed the answer. Jake is no, they didnt. But we guessed a couple of days. Im thinking thats about right. Is that this is moving quickly though hes arent worth three hours and hes already i think the key in part of this, it wouldnt surprise me if its less. Yeah, then theyre going to read the courts going to resume testimony is going to resume at 2 00 p. M. Gmt, going to get one of the things thats interesting is you have the Republican Party falling in line behind donald trump and saying, basically as laney said, or maybe it was george said its all you know, they have their talk getting points. Its a sham trial. You heard congresswoman mela take whatever its its the same script. So sham trial, alvin bragg is doing this for political reasons. He could be prosecuting criminals under that there isnt really, and maybe im wrong, and i certainly dont consume resistance media, but i have not seen any sort of line of democratic politicians out there arguing this case is about justice and making the argument that this is actually a very important case. I mean, maybe ive missed it. Have you seen democrats out there talking about how important this is . I havent i have not. So jeff zeleny would be the expert on this, but it seems to me that the Biden White House and campaign is concerned about getting too into this, right . Well, i get why theyre not, but where are the but maybe they have said to their surrogates this really isnt going to help us just stay away from it until we see what if the more partisan democrats out there then democratic senator, just a few blocks from there, whos also beginning of trial today. So i dont think they want to talk about the whole law and justice thats a key, thats a key point though you dont hear the republican saying senator menendez, are congressman cuellar are being politically prosecuted by the Biden Administration. Do you you dont hear that . I grew up in america. Thats long forgotten or at least for the last five years forgotten, where politicians didnt talk about trials when they were ongoing. Got your mouth and let the process play, gives me for reminding. Im reticent to onnc