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Afternoon, managing and points to raise questions about her credibility, which in the end it will be up to the jury to decide theres going to be more Cross Examination On Thursday at one point, judge, merchan also ordered Defense Attorney todd blanche to speak to his client, donald trump, who he said was Audibly Cursing at points during Stormy Daniels testimony behavior, the judge called contemptuous as for daniel, shell be back on the stand when the trial resumes thursday back with the panel right now, jonny, seen in legal Alice Elie Honig Normalising who served as special counsel, the House Democrats der, the first trump impeachment and is the author of trying trump, a guide to his first election interference criminal trial. So youve been writing courtroom diaries. Norm, what stood out to you . Today . Were the biggest takeaways from her testimony Stormy Daniels is not a critical witness to the prosecution unlike Michael Cohen, whos coming up, shes principally a corroboration witness to provide additional evidence because all of the witnesses weve seen have credibility issues i thought she was actually more effective on crossexamination just watching the jury under the pressure of questioning from Defense Counsel, her toughness and still came out. She pushed back on some of the aspersions that were cast upon her and she did provide corroboration about the 2000s, six sexual encounter they kicked off this whole case then the critical 2016 a legend campaign, Finance Conspiracy and then its cover up. And you need that conspiracy and the cover up she centered on the conspiracy she brought us back after a very dry documents de so youre saying she was better on crops . Lets examination because she was more natural and authentic as opposed to her initial testimony, which was i mean, it was certainly rushed from what we heard from outside the court i felt that she was not as effective. Its unusual, but sometimes witnesses do perform better on cross it was a challenge to her and her genuine persona came out if shes a writer, she writes scripts, shes a performer. And i felt that the direct was a little bit too performative. She was more genuine on the cross. What do you make the Defense Calling for mr. Oil . Well, ellie and i were chatting about this. There was no chance that they were going to get a miss trial. They wanted to make a point the judge did agree with them that the testimony went too far, but i dont trump cannot have been too happy about this the judge pointed out that the defense had failed to object at certain points that he had to suh of spontaneous on his own object at one point, it did go too far. Anderson, there were too many extraneous issues a reporter asked me, did she talk too much . I said the problem wasnt talking. It was a failure to listen. She was not hearing the questions and responding to the questions she was going over that script, but i do think in the end of the day, just watching the jury in the afternoon the prosecution continued to advance its case. This today was more of three yards in a Cloud Of Dust and both both sides got things that they wanted from todays examination. So its interesting because i was doing are live coverage following along with our minutebyminute updates from inside the courtroom. And i had the exact opposite impression. Now, you had the benefit of being in the courtroom i will defer to that, but we do also have to be careful when we play sort of amature psychologists to the jurors movements, though they were leaning forward, they were taking taking notes. Okay. They could be taking notes because they think this is a great point, or they could be taking notes because they think this makes no sense. And i dont believe it so lets just all be cautious in reading into the jurors physicality my impression was she was plausible on her explanation of what happened in that hotel room. Its hard for me to believe that a juror, heard that and thought this is entirely made up. There may well be some embellishments with arthur arthur, i think pointed out effectively in the last hour, but i think its quite clear they had sex in 2006 in that hotel room. But the cross the exam boy, her responses were disastrous. Do you hate donald trump . Yes. Of course, she does. Thats a big deal. When the witness hates the person whos liberty is at stake. Thats a big dam feel and shes putting out tweets, fantasizing about him being in jail. That really undermines the credibility. The fact that she owes him 500,000. She by order of a court, owes donald trump a half Million Dollars and said, i will never pay him. I will defy a court order. The defense is going to say shes willing to defy a court order. Why shes not willing to respect an order of a judge, why she going to respect this oath. She took. So i thought it went quite poorly on cross exam at the end of direct, i thought. Okay they got what they needed, but but i think the cross is make them real in right. Can i ask you both about part of the cross that that has been a theme of the defense, which was this whole thing is just extortion. These are people who had a way of extracting money from donald trump. And thats what they did with the threat of disclosing stuff. He didnt want disclosed. How do you think that plays into this case . You go first, there. Look, i thought that the importance of starting with pecker, who makes clear that there is an agreement and he was very persuaded he said and the rest of the case, including put the documents half of the case two, the sayyed the cover up to the side. Stormy didnt have anything to say about that. The rest of the case is all a followon to pecker, establishing the contours of this Campaign Finance election. Urines conspiracy. So jeff, if donald trump himself set up the arrangement that was later executed, that rabbits the extortion point. Let your point its not the notetaking that i found so telling on cross. It was that they didnt take notes. They paid attention, they listened and shes showed her still. What are you supposed to do . She did do that tweet. She does hate donald trump. I think juries, if youre honest with them, that is the one thing they want. You can. Arthur has made a very okay. Good living off of this principle. If you are honest with them, they will trust you. They will leave and not lose credibility on that point. There was one confusing line of questioning where she didnt seem to have a solid timeline on why she signed the agreement where she shifted from saying that it was not out of a desire for money, it was out of fear that she signed this agreement. She said that she didnt want the story to get out, but then she said that she she just wanted the story to get out. And then she said she assigned it because she figured it was just easier to do this, to stay quiet, to let them by her silence. I thought that was a little bit confusing given that is actually what gets to the heart of this, which is the catch and kill aspect of this the fact that she couldnt get out there with her story, what theyd been leading up to the david pecker, karen mcdougal, now to Stormy Daniels, that was something that didnt get a lot of clarity in the courtroom today i mean, the more i marinate on this test maybe the strategy is in part to show frankly with all due respect how messy of a person Stormy Daniels is. And from Donald Trumps perspective, even his demeanor in the courtroom today, the way that she really gets a rise out of him it makes it very easy to explain why he would think it is extremely important to keep this womans story from coming out at the exact moment that she was threatening to tell the world. She would have been a character that would have absorbed all of the energy in the campaign had she been outfront in that particular moment for whatever its worth the juries saw that today in for all its good parts and its bad part. Stormy daniels is who she is. And shes not a clean witness in the sense that shes not always telling a straight story. Shes not always coming across as credible. Maybe shes acting sometimes, maybe shes not. There was definitely something that happened, but the degree to the nittygritty details youre not really sure how much of it its true. And all of that as part of the package and you can see why donald trump didnt want that to come out youve talked to form. President has denied any kind of sexual liaison with Stormy Daniels. Do most republicans, supporters and others believe him i its hard after today, i think especially i think a lot of people said, well, shes coming forward because hes running for president and look at this, but theres all these instances of donald trump denying this. I mean, there are countless ways and he was in the white house and briefing rooms and theres one where even after he was confronted by border, he denied it major story on were not changing any stories. All im telling you is that this country is right now running so smoke had to be bringing up that kind of crap to be bring it up, which ons all the time thats all you want to talk about. Youre going to see excuse me. Excuse me. Did not know, but you have to excuse me. You take a look at what i said. You go back and take a look. Youll see what i said to catherine. Lucys credit. She was the one who asked him the question on Air Force One where hes in the hallway and he denies know youve to ask Michael Cohen about that. I dont know anything about that. Obviously we later learned that was a lie. He did know about it. I think the one thing that we havent talked about enough today is his level of anger inside that courtroom. I mean, i have been watching trump as he was in there with keith davidson, the moments where he was closing his eyes and not really paying attention or trying to pretend like the testimony wasnt happening. He made no illusions of not listening today. He was glued to that screen. He had a scowl on his face the whole time when you walked in and out of the room, he was downright angry. The only time he didnt seem really furious was as he was exiting the courtroom at the end of the day after susan niclas had delivered a pretty brutal beginning of that crossexamination, but trumps anger and watching Stormy Daniels and the two of them being in the room for the first time and 17 years, they have not seen each other since 2007. It was palpable even from where i was in the very, very back corner of the room. You could see how angry he was. The longer or testimony went on and you can see how happy he was as you just said a lot left the courtroom because when he came outside his Statement Today was you could see this case is falling apart because i forget. I think that every day no, no, he doesnt know. He says every day that i cant get a fair trial. The judges, its not fair. The jurys not fair. But today, because i think when caitlin just said Susan Nechele came right out and since this wasnt about me, funny, you said that this wasnt about money. And of course its about money. I think i think abby said, were going to focus push it away from the sachin, go about money, money, money. This was all about money for you before Stormy Daniels testified, own a suck all the air out of the room, but before she testified, the jury heard from this publishing executive, and it was actually really interesting. The prosecutor had her read a number of passages from two different books. One was how to be a billionaire. One of the quotes was this is donald trump in this book, which was goes written says, as i said before, i always signed my check, so i know where my money is going in the same spirit. I also always try to read my bills to make sure im not being overcharged another time and how to be a bill nayar. He wrote, as i said before, oh, well it same thing as i said, i always have my tax. This is what the case is about. This since the charge in the case, which is that he made false business records. So i thought that was extremely incriminating. Now, what i what i thought was sort of hilarious and fascinating was his Charles Barkley defense. Now, you may not understand that reference is the Charles Barkley the basketball player and brown all right. Caster rhoad, an autobiography, even i know who charles i know anderson, i always want to be careful issues. And he claimed he wrote an autobiography and he claimed he was misquoted and his own autobiography, the crossexamination, was effectively that is that will trump doesnt really write his own books. I think thats going to be a toughs so for the jury and that i mean, thats not going to seal the case, but that meticulous attention to his own bookkeeping is something that is very important in this case goes right to the issues and i think is going to be a big problem. A master that yesterday i thought Sally Franklin, thats her name. Lets remember his salary franklin to me, the legal nerd in me. She was the star of the day. I mean, that testimony about what donald trump himself wrote in his book is devastating. Remember, last night we were talking about what does he know . Does he know about the accounting . Is he familiar with the invoices . She quoted him saying, you have to check out every invoice you have to know every paper clip to me that was a much certainly better Witness For The Prosecution ultimately less dynamic, but more important. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it doubles down on what their jury heard yesterday from another person who knows trumps practices very well, who said the same thing. Trump would get invoices and be like, dont pay this and go back but not one juror is going home today thinking about what Sally Franklin test by going closer closing. Thats gonna be up on the baby, but i just say right now, im like what the mistake on the prosecutors take it for the reality is all bad i mean, if i thought about it, youre thinking about it somebodys salary franklin, remember her name, right . But the fact delhi that just its trump like the quote from the book, right . Make sure youre not getting overcharged. Look at the bill and make sure you sign and youre paying the right amount of money. As you know, mr. Prosecutor, thats not enough to prove any element of this crime, correct . Oh, it goes to a very important aspect. Whats the asset is he was aware of the whole check scheme, the Reimbursement Scheme im pointing, but its not its not recorded anyway, its got afforded in his book no, hes not signing the book. He doesnt have the book. This is just him signing a check. Its gotta go. Wheres this book that is being recorded . And hes Donald Trumps signatures in the check. On the check, he does not know. Okay. I will why isobar i heard it down as a Campaign Expense or some other, you know, expense. We dont know the book, but sally up is donald trump saying this is my practice. This is how i run my business. I check every invoice. Its not him saying i checked them. Michael cohen invoices that would be there was also a quote in one of the books about alan weisberg. Now hes been there by aside for 30 years president , how close they are and the book another page of the book corroborated the story that we heard from geoff mcconney. Youre fired because he did not feel he was monitoring trumps cash positions closely enough for me the most this is real legal nursery, but the most fascinating part of the examination of the publisher was the redirect because the prosecutors laid a trap on cross blanch said, well, wait a minute, there was a ghostwriter, there was a coauthor, and then the prosecutors came back with all of the personal details of the acknowledged the cowriter was a young mother who was quoted in there and it just hammered, but also the cowriter wasnt like an established writer who would have just invented all this stuff. It was somebody who was like pardon the system, works at trust, organization and sits outside his desk. So the idea that she is making up all these quotes seems highly unlikely. However, kaitlan is totally right, not a single jaroun remember, is what woman she works for the trump organization. Shes a staff. Are there i think shes in her 70s now shes the one who helped melania trump, right . Her rnc speech in 2016, that plagiarized parts of Michelle Obamas speech. And she had to apologize and she took the blame for that just to bring this all Full Circle Living in 2016 at this moment, but on thursday, Stormy Daniels is back how long i mean, if you are the Defense Attorney, where do you go . Oh, wow what theyve done before. Okay. So this is how it works. Months ago, they take everything Stormy Daniels, he said everywhere and you put it im old school, so i just do it on paper, but they put it on an spreadsheets and its by topic. What does she . You say about how she met from what does she say the book. What did she say . And as a group of what did you say here is what did she see there. So you have all those checklists and all these different topics. And then on this side its like all these different interviews. And then look, you have to have it so memorized. So in your soul, when youre the lawyer standing up there, that you are reactant, you dont have time times they hold onto them and madame witness, let me look at this. You have to be like, oh, really, thats what youre saying today. Well, do you remember give an interview to Anderson Cooper in 2018 when you said this . So which time youre lying, do you like to these 12 jurors of july to Anderson Cooper, would you not to know that . But what is the core lie . You want to establish . I mean, do you really want to establish that they didnt have sex . I mean, what what is what see this is why i find her just wondering entertaining witness, but i dont think he saw that important. I agree with you. When you know who youre attacking without attacking the prosecutor by the way, you cant trust them. This is the witness. This whole case is about Stormy Daniels is stormy day. It was never met. Donald trump, none of us would be here and theyre the ones who put this whole case. Were only here because at this woman and you kept believe it because she told this slide that line, this line, this line that and if you cant believe any of those lines that youre going to walk him brian, out of this courtroom. Elie i mean, theres no question after thermo daniels testimony today, theres no way down. Trump has testified oh, my gosh. I mean, there wasnt before they went from 0. 020, 0. 0. Yeah. I mean theres just no reason for him to testify strategically. I dont think you will find a rational Defense Lawyer or prosecutor on the planet who wed say he should testify. He doesnt need to. This is a reasonable doubt defense. Arthur just articulated it quite well and quite passionately, i cant wait by the way to see what you want. Michael cohen night. But i mean basically the pitches, they havent proven their case and theyre basing this on the word of two people, michael covenant, Stormy Daniels, who you cannot believe beyond a reasonable doubt. To take the stand would just be absolutely selfdestructive. We got to take a quick break next. Now, weve gotten the full Trial Transcript. John bermans back with more of the standout moments from today and later, Clarissa Ward from jerusalem on israels, moved to take over the profit Border Crossing into gaza and where theres leaves Ceasefire Negotiations for both imagine a future where plastic is not wasted but instead remade over and over into the things that keep our food fresher our families safer. We can and our planet cleaner to help us get there americas plastic makers are invested in billions of dollars to create Innovative Products and new Recycling Technologies for sustainable change. Because when you push for smarter solutions, week things monets allergies dont have to be scary. 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Its ultimate speed for ultimate business. Dont miss out on our fastest speed plans yet switch to Comcast Business and get started for 49. 99 a month. Plus, ask how to get up to an 800 prepaid card. Call today skin. Its the product ive been dreaming about my whole life. Im Caitlin Paul Ants at the federal court in washington and this is cnn before the break, arthur mentioned the degree to which the defense is focusing on the consistency of Stormy Daniels statements over time today, at least her accounts of her conversations with the former president about his daughter ivanka impossible opportunities to be on the apprentice do square substantially with the one she gave me in 2018 . Hes like, wow you are special. You remind me of my daughter you know, hes like youre smart beautiful, and a woman to be reckoned with. I like you, i like you. At this point, was he doing the apprentice . Yes. And he goes got an idea, honey bunch. Would you ever consider going on and being a contestant . And i laughed and said, nbcs never going to let you know an adult film star, beyond its, he goes, no, no, he goes thats why i want you youre going to shock a lot of people. Youre smart and they wont know what to expect did you think he was serious or did you think he was kind of dangling that to get you to want to be involved with them both. Back for the panel and john berman has got more from the Trial Transcript what stands out. So weve had a chance now that we have the full transcript to go over the cross and put a little meat on the bones of what youve all been talking about here on how the defense really when after Stormy Daniels, right out of the gate on page three of the crossexamination. This is when Susan Necklace Defense Attorney, says the Stormy Daniels. Am i correct that you hate President Trump daniels . Yes. Niclas, you want him to go to jail, right . Daniels. I want him to be held accountable. Necklace. You want him to go . Go to jail, am i correct daniels if hes found guilty absolutely. Niclas, you tweeted in the past that quote, i wont walk all dance down the street when he selected to go to jail, correct. Daniels can you show me thats exactly what i said. Thats not necklace then says, can we please pull up j to exhibit j2 only for the witness and the parties, please . Exhibit shown. She looks at it. She goes aha and daniels laughs. Susan niclas did you just laugh . Daniel says select it is in quotes because im quoting something that someone else said because i knew, you dont get selected to go to jail. Niclas says you just laughed about that, right . Objection. From the prosecution. Daniel says its a typo. The judge says overruled. Stormy daniels says thats why its funny. You dont get selected to go to jail. Daniel says its not because you think this is a typo. Its not because you think its funny at all. Susan necklace asks and then Stormy Daniels says, no. Absolutely not. So that you get a sense of how tense it was. Obviously, you get the part about Stormy Daniels hating are, but you also get the defense leaning in to the idea of the Stormy Daniels was laughing, understand, you know, rare it is to ask a witness on crossexamination. You hate the defendant and the witnesses . Uh, yes, i do. I mean, its better that she is honest about her bias, but this is overwhelming. What lawyers called bias. She hates him. Again, if im the prosecutor, id rather have her just come out and admit whats obvious. But thats a big deal. The jurys allowed to take that into account. And that is very stark testimony. I think well stick with differentiable as Michael Cohen do hate to whole my goodness, hates not the right word. I mean, its as entire livelihood, its entire entire person makes a linear Summer Intern on embrace yet, right . Hes going to embrace this i mean, some poor intern on the defense team is probably listening to every podcast this guys ever done, every tiktok hes ever done. It is over the top. Ive never seen anything like the level of personal hatred and bias and Michael Cohen will have michael cone, rhoad it in time hi or book called ravana so you dont really have to look that hard to find him. If he would cop to it so freely or well see. But i have no choice. I dont forget hes getting prepped and prep them, prepping anderson can we just touch about how sick it is . That Stormy Daniels said that heres donald trump hitting on her wants to have sex with her and hes like you remind me, my daughter thats weird stuff that saying it was because shes smart, that pretty when she said girl you dont say you remind me my daughter, thats nuts to that 0. 1 thing that i dont to me as someone whos covered trumps since even before it was in the white house, watching him sitting there and having to listen to the way she talked about him. It wasnt just what she said the salacious points. She was so derisive, she was mocking him basically at several points, she was saying he was old enough to be my dad. He was older than my father. She was 27. He was 60. She was saying she didnt enjoy it she didnt want to be there. You know, shes had all these points where then in the crossexamination, she was like, yeah, i do hate him and i do want to see im held accountable and she was not shying away from her past statements about him. Trump never has to sit there and listen to someone talk about him like that or talked to him like that and describe him as arrogant and pompous. And today he knew a choice. He was just sitting there speaking of what this trial has done to him, regardless of the outcome seeing him sit there at that table and just have to kinda take it is remark that this is one of the things that he has always been the most sensitive about this Stormy Daniels allegation. In particular, kaitlan knows this actually really well because asking him about this at the white house would be like world war ii, for the white house staff, they absolutely hated this line of questioning. And it really gets to, it reminds me of how he responded to the Access Hollywood tape. Thats definitely him right on the audio tape, but hes still likes to deny it. So when hes confronted with the worst parts of himself, he really reacts very strongly and very negatively. And thats what this whole case is about however, i do think Stormy Daniels the way that she conveyed that trump is going to make the argument and i dont know what his lawyers are going to do, but hes already been making the case. This is a concocted case, too dirty him up before the election to make him seem bad in front of the american public, even though theres no legal illegal thing that happened here, thats his argument. I dont know that Stormy Daniels helped the prosecutors in batting that down because she seemed to have a personal vendetta against him. It may be justified, but thats what it seemed like bases will the defense when they crossexamined her, i mean, they attacked her motivations about talking about they tried it many ways. One, there was the hate issue also the financial motivation and they lean into that. And the one hand, you all mentioned before, Stormy Daniels had said that she refused to pay trump the money that she owes him and the lawsuits. This is where Susan Necklace the di veterinary picks up. Now, while youve been refusing to pay President Trump the money oh him, youve also been making money by claiming you had sex with President Trump, right daniel says, are you talking about the book yes. Niclas, youve been making money by claiming you had sex with donald trump for more than a decade, right . Daniels . I have not been paid for interviews in the United States if thats what you mean, niclas well, that was not my question. My question was, youve been making money by claiming to have had sex with President Trump for more than a decade, right . Daniels, ive been making money by telling my story about what happened to the niclas. And that story in essence is that you say you had sex with President Trump, right . Daniels . Yes. That story has made you a lot of money, right . Then daniel says, it has also cost me a lot of money. And thats that point about costing her a lot of money. And this is the thing i spent a lot of time talking to stormy about, which is because Michael Avenatti filed this Libel Lawsuit against trump, that the judge in california said was frivolous he awarded attorneys fees to trump, which is assessed against the client, not the lawyer the amount he now she now owes him with interest and penalties is 670,000. She owes Donald Trumps 670,000 you can see why that makes someone really angry. And there does seem to be a measure of injustice because her lawyer, who is now in prison for other reasons, is responsible for her being in this gigantic debt, which is much more than the money she made out of this hole there are other reasons that hes in jail. Avenatti. Theyre very similar that right . Thats excuse in jail for extortion. That offense is theory here somehow is going to be have to do with extortion. But getting hes also entail for stealing from stormy. Yeah, thats true. Im in the kaylas point about trump having to sit there he did. I didnt explode, but he reacted in a way today that caused the judge to tell his lawyers youve been arraigned this guy in because the judge does have the power. I mean, theres a Confrontation Clause which is ten amount in a trial. So the way the judge can put them in jail, the jeh johnson cant throw them out of the courtroom. Its very hard if a witness is testifying unless he just acts so disruptively then they could put them in another room with a video tape because hes forfeited his right to be you think . I did. The defense mentioned the amount of money that she owes him to already. Yeah. They asked her that was actually right when it began that she was going john has a transcript, but susan niclas going live in byline of what she owes donald trump and what she says that shes not she all violating the nondisclosure agreement for this. Its for for filing the moment theres no usually a nondisclosure agreement chunks it even know remember, there was a lawsuit, but also oh, argument with void because he never even signed talks at length about what why she wont pay it back. And there was an implication that she could but she wont because she thinks its unfair. So they talked at length about this, it isnt it true that you were hoping that if donald trump is convicted, youll never have to pay him the more than half 1 million you owe him. Its out there was in this trial. And even beyond that, both Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen put even putting aside this judgment against Stormy Daniels. They do have direct financial interest here. If donald trump is convicted, theyre going to vote sell more books, get more views, get more downloads, be on tv, more if hes not convicted, what is this, jerry . I dont think its at all likely they come back not guilty. It might paying. But if they come back not guilty, the bond item falls out on the Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels market. So in addition to over admitted personal hatred, they have a financial motive as well, and that will be drilled drilled drilled about to harb. And to him enter the jury at the end, they have millions of reasons to lie to you, Ladies And Gentlemen of the jury, number many. Thanks. Very much. Appreciated it. Obviously, the jury heard a lot from Stormy Daniels day, as well as anger from the judge about some of that testimony coming up, but talk to injury consulted about it. All how would really happen with jesse l. Martin . Sundays at nine on cnn, we could brand every one of our wonderfully delicious pistachios with the word wonderful on them. Or we could just write it once on the bag wonderful pistachios are the pistachios are wonderful, but the word wonderful on them. 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Her early testimony included details about sexual positions, whether the former president you heres the condom and he didnt this judge later said there were some things are better left unsaid. However, those details and other denials are things that daniel is talked about in a boost of of her claim of having sex with the former president its a claim he has consistently denied in lies at the heart of the charges against him joining us is Jury Consultant Alan Turkheimer how do you think the jury responded to Stormy Daniels testimony jurors sacrifice a lot. They give up their time, their families, their jobs, and its difficult. They have to hear the information in a case they dont get to sit around and talk to people about it. Its stressful when i talked to them after verdicts. The number one thing they usually tell me that earths them about the process is that time was wasted or when something was inefficient, that really bothers them. And i think that looking at the testimony today, i think there was some extraneous testimony that she went into some of the details that you just highlighted, maybe a few jokes which i dont think should ever be made in court i think that that bothered the jurors now, they would tend to give her a free pass on like somebody like michael cohn who would do the same. But i do think it bothered them. And if you think about it, the prosecution and its Opening Statement had some pretty stark language. Theyve talked about a conspiracy cover up scheming, that kind of thing. And so they really want to elevate and have jurors think that this is serious stuff. So anytime theres a moment of frivolity in the courtroom or if that goes on for awhile, i think that hurts the prosecution helps a defense. There was reporting that certain daniels was addressing the jury and made jokes and they didnt seem to respond and people well in the courtroom said didnt kaitlan, you can talk about this, that it didnt seem to land well with the jurors because it was such a tenth environment in such a serious subject that she was talking about yeah. I just i dont think theres really any circumstance. Something you mentioned earlier, if something isnt planned and theres a little humor, yes, its a good time to release jurors can laugh at that, but any kind of planned humor is just a courtroom is not the place for that. And i think they probably picked up on that. And if they maybe smiled or looked at each other, whatever happened, i dont think that they appreciated that went on Cross Examination when she was asked so if she hated donald trump, does she said yes di jurors appreciate that honesty. You think more or do they suddenly now question her motives . I think some of them i think a little bit of both. I think they probably appreciate it, but also thought, well, what is her reason for testifying . What does she here for . And i know there was the discussion earlier about cross and dirac. Maybe she was more credible. I think norman, you were talking about this. I think to me, the big thing is that if your demeanor changes from direct across the jurys not going to think that youre that credible. Theyre going to question how truthful you are, how believable you are, and how likable you are. So whether or not whatever she said during during the cross that maybe she didnt touch on during the direct if the demeanor changes and its a different person thats going to hurt her credibility currently. She was a times talking directly to the jury. Do you have a view some witnesses, and answering questions . Answer to the jury and others answered to the lawyer do you think one of those is the correct approach . I think being natural is the best. So i like it when a client if somebody says, could you explain to the jury then you look at the jury. I think its unnatural and jurors get a little weirded out by it. If the lawyer witness are talking and then every time theres an answer, they pivot and look at the jerry. I dont think thats natural. I think its good to try to at least elicit and prompt them to look at the jury so that the jury feels like were having a conversation. I ask you your opinion about having to lawyers on the jury. Yes. So it was not inadvertent. Certainly. And its very interesting. This is a whitecollar type of logical, accomplished jury. Their Sales Salespeople grand jury that i can tell you . Yes. Maybe not that a typical for new york county, but the other lawyers are going to have probably undue influence. Its interesting that there are two. Now, i dont know. They didnt run out a strikes because they were chosen in the first seven. So maybe one side thought the other would burn a strike on a leuser and or the other . Either way though, i think maybe the thinking as these lawyers are going to strictly adhere to the law council, the trump attorneys will regarding the lawyers, would you have told them to strike them . What would you say . I think in this case its okay to keep them on think its i think its okay. I think that a lot of times lawyers theyve been theyve seen situations where ethics maybe were questioned and maybe some shady things going on and they can distinguish that between illegality and maybe thats the whole, theyre not going to get bamboozled by some of the salacious details of whats going on in this case. So its always risky and its interesting that theres not only one, but two lawyers on this jury for sure. Nicholas, the trump attorney at one point during her Cross Examination set to Stormy Daniels, you aggressively rehearsed for this or the prosecution didnt you . And Stormy Daniels push back on the characterization. She said she did go over her testimony with them. I wonder though how the jury hears that people who may not know what, how prosecutors do work with the witnesses that they call of what theyre going to say. I think most jurors know that witness does do prepare and in a way it shows that theyre taking it seriously. And i know they didnt get into that. So i dont think that was too much of a surprise, but most jurors do make that inference that if youre going to get up and testify case like this, youre certainly going to prepare for it and rehearses wanted to use that wouldnt be the word that Stormy Daniels, niclas tax. Yeah. Ive heard judges say when that line of crossexamination comes up, judges just interject. There is nothing improper objection. Objection i didnt ask it. Nobody asked you to say that, judge. Whats known as no theres no question. Again, object to the judge really doing i dont want to answer judges i think if no idea what hes talking, you answer my question. Im not sure why the one thing. This was your question, but the one thing i think in terms of that, thats related to that i think when hol picks said that she was nervous, thats something that i think is in your pr that im sure where thats some of the jury can relate to. So when thats elicited, jurors can appreciate that, that brings them down to earth a little bit and its true that someone like her, shes not used to testifying, but theres a fine line between that and saying are you rehearse with this and youre basically the implication is your attorneys either told you what you know what to say and they told you how to say it. But often the first thing i say, if its not my gross examination. I will say miss daniels. This is the first time you want. Ive ever spoken correct . Correct. Thats not true with the prosecutor, correct . Correct. Could you tell me approximately how many times have you met with them . On what dates and what was the first time you met with and what was the second . The best part is if theyre like, well, i dont know. So you met with them so many times that you dont even remember how do you as defense have a right to meet with them and to talk to them about their testimony which the trump team hasnt done with all the witnesses there, but they usually they usually say no. They usually say why would it defend, why would the Defense Counsel not want to meet with other witnesses were definitely wants you why they say no, but you say no, im not going to meet with you. Im not going to talk to you. You the lawyer doesnt reach out themselves. What if theres a breach . The lawyers, if that theres no way for that to really get ive never i dont recall a prosecutor saying, well, did mr. Idler ever tried to talk to you . Im asking if todd blanche and trumps other attorneys have the right to reach out to some of these these witnesses that weve seen to talk to them about what theyre going to say on the stand and they didnt do that. Why would they not have done that . Well i dont i dont cant answer that question, but usually i would ask my investigator, hey, pick up the phone and so youve Stormy Daniels will talk to us one out of 100 times a witness they think its a good idea, is well. Absolutely. If you can if theyre willing to talk to you, but they usually dont. But about the nervous thing when i put a witness on then i would say, are you nervous right now . Theyll see i see, you know what . So my a little bit, but well get through this together. Its palette. I keep coming back to what you were saying about the jury and all the nx that went into constituting this jury in the first place, they understand the stakes at this case. And i think a lot of them probably understand how their lives are probably going to change after all of this. When when Stormy Daniels inserts this implication that there is there are vendettas at play here. Hers maybe Michael Cohens later how does the jury react to that when they know that there is maybe theyre not following the news, but the president of the United States, the guy who used to be president is sitting right there. They know that theres a political implication, right . I think because of who these jurors are, and theyve lived here for theyve known trump for 40 years. And so i think that there are shocked by that the conscience of the jury is not shocked when they hear that information. Its something that if they here once or twice they might, its and they want to know how it relates to the case. But two that i just dont think its that big of a powerful point that theyre trying to make. I do think the jurors are wondering how everythings going to connect to the Verdict Questions that theyre supposed to answer. And thatll be really interesting. I havent seen that those actual questions i want to know what they are because you might have a jury that is prone to convector. They think they will the side with prosecution, they rhie the law and they dont want or the other way around, they sayyed with defense and they read the questions and maybe this means that we should convex. So thatll be really interesting for gunner. Thank you so much. Are we good to have you and everybody in the panel . Thank you. Appreciate it. Ahead. How prison biden today condemned to surge of antisemitism in the, since the october 7 of muscle its attack that and report from israel and the state of the war and inspire toxics so great how could anyone possibly know that every single one of these pistachios is guaranteed to be wonderful by reading right here. 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And its Course Awards and jerusalem, the latest course or what gaps remain between what hamas agreed to yesterday or say they agree to yesterday and what israels willing to accept so anderson, there seemed to be two key areas of disagreement here. The primary one relates to the 33 hostages who would be released as a part of this deal that was supposed to include women, females the elderly, and the sick. But hamas are saying that in the agreement that they signed onto, essentially that some of those 33 could be dead bodies if theyre not able to locate those hostages alive. And the israelis have said that that is completely impossible for them. So thats the key area. Then another issue is this issue of whether Israeli Forces would pull out of the gaza strip entirely. Hamas has said again, in the proposed agreement that they signed onto that, it would entail israel completely pulling out his forces. Israel has said, there is no possibility of that happening now, while it sounds like theres a lot of daylight between the two sides, us officials have said, and we heard from Whitehouse Spokesperson john kirby today that he believes the gaps can be closed. We know there has been a flurry of diplomatic activity, talks ongoing in cairo today cia bill burns, who was in cairo, will be flying to israel tomorrow to meet with his counterpart, david barney at masada, also to meet with the israeli Prime Minister benjamin netanyahu. So even though there is still some real distance on these core issues, there is a huge amount of diplomatic pressure and efforts going on to try to get the two sides to come together in a lasting deal. Andrew serwer, what is the latest about whats happening, raffa well, there have been airstrikes. Today. We know according to Health Officials on the ground that at least 27 people were killed, including six women and nine children. The idf also reporting nearly 20 rockets were fired from that rough the area. The israelis are now full control of that rough. Are raffa Border Crossing area, which means that that Border Crossing is closed. Kerem shalom is also closed. And so youre hearing a lot of concern from Aid Organizations who say that in less that aid is able to get in unless those trucks with fuel with food, with medicine are able to get in that youre going to be looking at dramatically worse humanitarian situation. There has been a huge flight of people. Some 100,000 who are already on the move according to the head of unrwa, some 200 people moving every single our hospitals in the eastern part of gaza. Some of them been forced to close among them. Abeer use of alnajjar hospitals. That is a hospital that treats people with dialysis who have kidney hey, issues. So again, very real fears that what israel is describing as a surgical precision anti terror, offensive could turn into something broader. 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