New york are continuing to monitor gentlemans out of The Middle East where were learning more about the Ceasefire Proposal that hamas, except in israel, rejected today and is really strikes on Southern Gaza. There are raising new questions about whether these limited operations will grow into a full fledged invasion of raffa, which Binding Ministration has been warning against for weeks. We begin the hour right now today, 12 and the Trump Hush Money Trial And Judges Second Contempt Finding against the former president today in his warning that a third could mean jail time that im is calling two longtime trump employees as they try to show exactly how Michael Cohen was repaid by trumps trust and personal accounts in 2017 after he paid hush money to Stormy Daniels back with the panel joining us as well as harry lipman, who was in court todays and la times Legal Affairs columnist, host of the talking feds podcast, and former Deputy Assistant attorney general. Im wondering what you observed as judge Merchan Warren Trump about potential jail time. It was really sort of jaw dropping. Weve been having different judges in different courts kind of wag their fingers, but he looked directly at trump softspoken, but very firm. Mr. Trump . You are out of rope and it was really the sort of statement weve been waiting for, for a year next time, youre done and its sensible in a way because with only 1,000 to work with for other violations, why why should he did all around . But he said next time thats it. And he really means that it has credibility would be on the line as well as the integrity of the judicial system. It was a dramatic moment for geoff made the point in the last hour, which i think is very correct that trump actually has been abiding by the gag order since the violations, which has now been punished for i think thats right. He seemed sort of solid at it, angry and he has been at least trying to skate around it. And now were talking about jayyab. Theres a lot of discussion. Would he like it quixotic lee for political reasons . But jail, not fun for, you know, just, just imagine sort of know, hairdressers the whole did he say did he say next time is it or did he imply that somewhere in between . So what he said is necessary and appropriate, which of course you say, but what was really striking about it was the direct address to trump. I havent heard that before and weve been waiting. He really said, next time its like a border leyen of a directive and begging him, like hes the joint because as i said earlier, i think you did a great job. The judge is like, dont do this. Like i dont want to do this like dont make me do this, dont put me in this position. To Trial Transcripts. I have it right here, actually, because he he said this is a last resort measure for him that he doesnt not want to have to do this, which i think is important to emphasize because im sure trumps allies have been taking the judge and saying hes being treated unfairly. He said, yeah, youre the former president of the united states, possibly the next is well, he said there are many reasons why incarceration is truly a last resort for me. And he said to take that step would one disrupt these proceedings, which i imagine, you want to end as quickly as possible, speaking directly to trump, he said, i also worry about the people who would have to execute that sanction. The court officers, the correction officers, the Secret Service detail, right. Among others, he basically is talking about how involved it would be to actually take this action. But i think the other thing to remember when it comes to last resort, trump is violated. This ten times. I mean, would any other defendant be able to violate a gag order ten times and only really not were not going doesnt go to 11. Yeah. But on an e felony, which is the lowest felon for a man whos 77 years old, whos never been in trouble in his life, take out the whole prejudice an average 77 year old. He has a huge platform though, to go after these witnesses and to talk about these jurors. Thats exactly why he he was being found. Caitlin, you brought up a point though and i think a lot of even the future, the present and the future, it depends on the degree of violation. So if tomorrow he comes out there and says someone should take out Michael Cohen. I think donald trump will be put in jail immediately if he says, i still dont feel like im getting a fair trial from these jurors. I dont know if the judge would say yes, its a violation, but im not putting you in jail for that so i might have to graduate. I disagree about i think theres no more room to say violation, but youre okay. He might he might really try to keep from finding a violation, but if he does, i think no more room, but i do think that what he did today in addition to the comments there were four things on his desk that could potentially be violations. He didnt say that all of them were and some of them involve comments about witnesses like Michael Cohen and others. And so i think the judge actually by doing both things at the same time, was basically saying, look there are lines here. I think the jury is aligned for him and rightfully so the jury is their regular people. Trump aligning them to kaitlan point on his massive platform is a huge problem. We know that there are consequences of that, but the judge seem to at least in this latest tranche say okay, well, him calling a witness. Nice. That doesnt quite count. Hes drawing some lines there and saying that there are degrees to this and hes not willing to just say everything in this category is a violation when it may not be there are other costs to donald trump here. Real costs to irritating the dej to pushing the judges patients. Number one, if donald trump gets convicted this is the guy whos sentencing him. Lets keep that in mind. The sentence here will be, of course, up to the judge, and this will be a close call. I mean, if you look at class ii felonies, the lowest level of felony, most of them result in probation and finds not prison time, but some do. And the judge would be well within his rights to say, im going to take into account the fact that you violated my order ten times the second cost is team has his lawyers are flying blind here. They dont know whos coming tomorrow because they asked for that. They judge, wed like to know at one point, todd bland said, i promise you, i will prevent him from tweeting and the judge says, i dont think you can make that promise. And so normally a defense would certainly know the night before whos coming tomorrow instead, they dont know if theyre gonna be crossexamined. Reading is actually hurt his case. Yes intangible ways. So maybe hes taking that and look if hes selfinterested, which is dont know if hes rational, but hes selfinterested. You should be taking that. Theyre finding out the de, but theyre finding out very close they were complaining that they found out very very late yesterday, who the first witness would be today. They said the same thing about david pecker when he first testified that they are getting a pretty they say its too short of a notice well, just so were clear, they know the universe of potential witnesses. The government is required by law to produce the universe. So theyre not picking names out of hats, but the order in in which theyre called is as a courtesy, is different thats the pair for any lins. The evidence de because you were you were very struck. I heard you say by the alawites tilburg nodes. On a document, lets put the documented. We showed this in the last hour. Why why was this such an important piece of evidence . Two reasons i think the first is it corroborates what cohen has been saying for years, including in front of congress all the way down to the actual kind of calculation. How do you get from one 30 to the other thing is the idea that this was a scam. Michael cohen was, was executing on on donald trump, jacking up this price and trump was ignorant of it. This shows at least an hour and Yslow Bernick was working out exactly what the figure would, but thats the second point. It obliterates any argument which you could have had after say hope hicks, that this was somehow cohen acting on his own. This is why so berg, above him and they are doing it together. All you can now say hey its i always useful to think about what therell be able to i mean, if anybody knows who otherwise, ill burger is if yslow berg is doing it, it means its being done with trumps approval. The only sliver is somehow hes the jury doesnt necessarily get well, the jury believed that without always were testifying, who who convinces the droughts have a really important point. I think its the one thing, the one hole in whats otherwise 360 Degree Coverage and what cohen has to say is this conversation, but you need a reason theres no count. How could why berg and cohen somehow be freelancing in this sense when everything weve heard about trump is what a micromanager terry is on the lights, but at least it it says no no more argument that is cohen on his own as hope hicks sort of suggested on a simple question i have today, explain what that 50,000 services i mean, its a big number. It is. And well, what what conus said is its a separate payment for some kind of technology kind of service chris, that he had done before. Some people are whispering, maybe its another kind of campaign thing, but i think its just another payment he made a few months previous slide. Theres also a 60,000 quoteunquote bonus. So thats what its a bonus. Thats what they call. Im just curious what that 50 grand is because thats a big number for this analogy, services is when the pay off the Hush Money Pay off is 130,000 and then you have this other 50 on top of enabled. You guys might get all confusing for those jurors. But remember you also had a witness today who said that donald trump is perfectly capable and sometimes did not signed checks. So he obviously could have said to all the it wasnt just one check. It was it was i think 11 different checks reimbursing khan, he could have said, what is this . Why am i paying this right . That document answers the question of why he was paying it is although remember also earlier on poland complaints to pecker. Hes not paying me something kind of happen that made trumps so complying here and they version will come with colin and also the question, why was it not a one for one payoff . Why was it not just the entire amount that they just paid all of that . Why did they instead do it . And those monthly installments, i havent seen any explanation of that from the trump team. Just to look look Like Legal Services hes saying are we give you 35,000 to do Legal Services that youre not providing. One thing i was really struck by last week in the courtroom was just watching the jury was how closely they are following everything. I mean, pretty much everybody in that jury box when i was there was watching and listening very intently. So when were taking notes, but everybody was that the way it was really agree in today was kind of, you could say a slog of de you could say nuts and bolts stay, but it wouldve been a day that a lot of jurors would have phased out. They were they were attentive. They werent like wrapped and taking up, but they were attentive even through the afternoon i think the idea that as the controller said, donald trump basically almost fired him for paying what i mean the implication is that donald trump actually owed this money, but he was like, i need you to make it a smaller number all right. That is in your photo what does that mean is not paying and people dipping them and being like, oh yeah, what are you going to do . His attorneys now demand Retainer Fees is largest part because there werent chris kaiser works from are now got 5 million upfront before he did any legal one hour away and its amazing in a way that Michael Cohen actually was paid because donald trump, just typically, whether it is legitimately owed are not typically does not want to pay what is owed, let alone three times, right . Remember that he wanted to go into past the election is then he wouldnt have to pair. But somehow 12 checks, nine and then signed by him. Theres a little more to this story. He didnt pay Rudy Giuliani. Rudy giuliani went to him to seek help for his own legal expenses. He would not pay him because he claimed that he said that lawsuits in his efforts to try to help trump overturned the election results, didnt work. And so when Rudy Giuliani went to him and said, well, i did all this on your behalf, trump would not pay him and now were to giuliani is voting his own legal. Becker said here when cohen went to them, that trump said, hes got plenty of money. We dont need to pay him. And then he did something. I mean, this is why so much every de is riding even more on Michael Cohen because im brought back to the fact that Michael Cohen decided to tape trump in that i critical moment to say im about to make this payment for you, Michael Cohen knew that he needed the proof. He created the the evidence of it and was ultimately paid back. This is incredibly incriminating and Sensitive Information for donald trump. He did not want it out there and Michael Cohen was the one person who knew all about every element of this. So when he gets on the Witness Stand, theres quite a lot there. Its always been inevitable that they were going to need Michael Cohen to draw that link. And lets remember if we say, well, why should donald trump have to know about the small bore nuances of accounting . Because the Prosecutor Charging with a small bore nuance accounting crime, they chose to charge that they have after lincoln to it, what the prosecutors have been doing. And i think quite successfully thus far is reducing the amount of gap that Michael Cohen needs to bridge all these documents, all this testimony from david packer and others makes what Michael Collins about to say and we all know about what is going to be saying in a couple of days or whenever he takes us, then makes it easier to swallow, easier to believe more plausible. So theyre, theyre trying to, they know the jury has to take a Leap Of Faith with Michael Cuellar and they want to minimize that. Well, you always talk about that tape where he says to Michael Cohen, like you just take care of it, right . Refresh my record. So this is a tape relating to Karen Mcdougal, a couple of months before the Stormy Daniels pay off, but this got introduced to the jury on friday and essentially, Michael Cohen says were going to be paying Karen Mcdougal and trumps fine. Sure. One 50. How are we going to do it . And Michael Cohen nundy. I got it. I got it. Dont worry me and me and alawda are going to work actually. Shrimp suggests trends, someone who says right, 50, right trump says one 50 and trump says cash. I dont see that necessarily is damning for him. He saying were just gonna were gonna pay it in one shot that does, by the way, cash doesnt necessarily mean an envelope filled with hundred dollar bills when someone buys a house with cash, it means a onetime project. And Michael Cohen understands him to mean that because michael says no, no, no financing, meaning were going to do this more complex than just a onetime transaction. So i dont, if im a prosecutor, i wish Michael Cohen never hit secretly hit record on his own client. I dont like that tape. It goes both ways. It gives some points to the prosecution, some points that offense. But man, if youre the prosecution, you have that burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You dont want an a piece of evidence that has useful stuff both ways. One thing that we always talk about Michael Cohens credibility understandably i remember, i mean, everyone versus congressional testimony. Trump is also on tape lying about what he knew about this. I mean, that iconic moment on Air Force One when catherine lucy, who i believe was with the Associated Press at the time, asked him what he knew. He straightup lies and says he didnt know about it, even though by that time youve already paid Michael Cohen backboard. So donald trump also has credibility issues here. Any lied to hope picks . Its clear that she if painter to say it, but she was saying no, cohen, this is not what cohen would do when trump told me that he did it of his own accord. I dont believe it. Oh, and told hope hicks he did it on his own she testified to that thats not good for colon. Thats not good for the different hicks testified that trump told her that cohen did it on his own, and then she followed up by saying but that but she doesnt believe thats not what coincide with her as well that several aspects of this er libman. Thank you so much. Thanks. Say where theres next. More details from the full Trial Transcripts . Dust out tonight, including a portion of the prosecution stepbystep attempt to do what weve just been talking about, namely established that length at eleia just mentioned connecting the defendant to the alleged crime im sue the testimony of one of his former top money man. 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Better, changed my life. Check your eligibility in minutes at get life. Indeed. Com, how wed really having with jesse you, martin sundays at nih cnn we talked before the break about how prosecutors might tie the former president directly into the alleged scheme and the heart of this case, because earlier times you have to and said it was clear to him that the prosecution has already made its case and the checks dont trump rhoad to Michael Cohen or not for legal fees and the Business Records of them were falsified at again, though prosecutors have not yet made clear what was the defendants role in it . All that said prosecutors, todays certainly seem to be trying to make that connection indirectly through testimony from two longtime employees about how the Trump Organization was run, the full trial transcript released tonights speaks to that. John berman is back with more so what stands out . Well, sorry from the very beginning for the very beginning that mcal angela, who was the prosecutor from the very beginning when he had geoff mcconney h2 is the controller of the Trump Organization on the stand. He wanted to establish this was Donald Trumps organization that donald trump was the man in charge of everything. There so this was right at the beginning question during the time you worked for the Trump Organization who ran the company . Connie answered President Trump, colangelo. Before 2017, what was mr. Trumps role in the Trump Organization with god, he says, well, im not sure he was he ran the organization. He was the brains behind it. He i dont know how to answer that question. Chin glandular. When you worked there, did you consider mr. Trump your boss or mcconney says yes, its almost like he couldnt even conceive of anything other than donald trump being paramount in this organization. And this is someone who i should know. Hes been on the Witness Stand before he testified in the trump civil fraud trial. He actually got emotional broke down on the stand during that because he was talking about why he left the Trump Organization, why he chose to retire, and he was basically saying it was because there were so many subpoenas and investigations and how overwhelming this whole process was. So this is someone who got on the Witness Stand who doesnt have an ill view of donald trump and was really able to speak to trumps level of involvement here. The defense in the crossexaminatio n today was trying to paint a picture of just this sort of Chaotic Operation that nobody quite understood and outdated too, right . Theres a little bit of testimony think was interesting where it was mcconney, or actually it was the woman who testified the afternoon who was in the Accounting Department under my connie, she said all we had was pulldown menus so when were classifying expenses, basically, we just had our choice of however many and i just you know, i was the one who put it in as legal fees. So theyre trying to paint a picture of just sort of things happening at a lower level in a disorganized way that you cant tie back up to the top. Now, i dont know if thats going to fly with the jury. Thats clearly the defense strategy. How did you hear based on the transcript. So but thats a good argument for the defense that this woman who is no not a peer of donald trump in any way and not in all that much daytoday communication with him. If she is the one who characterizes the expense that is the crime here at the crime here is the expense. Its not the check, its not the trump had to in order to be convicted from head to know that it was being characterized as a legal absolute orchestrate. I think that the term that the prosecution has used, he orchestrated it and well see if that well see if they can prove it. I mean, the cases and over theyve proven a lot. They havent so far. Heres my summation to the jury, and youre you have a lot of latitude in summation. Ladies and gentlemen, well know about the Trump Presidency and we know what his reputation was. He was a macro guy. He was not a micro guy. He wasnt jimmy carter who wanted to know who was using the Tennis Courts in the white house . He didnt even want to read a memo. He didnt want hear anything from anybody. But now these prosecutors, after theyve trained their witnesses day in and day out, preparing the pur cross examination. Now, all of a sudden, hes mr. Detailoriented. What hes running the country, he cant be bothered with the details. But here for this one check for a billionaire now hes all conservative, detailed prosecution is going to say is hes detailoriented about his medea thats what the evidence has also this menu idea first mean it doesnt, could also be argued the other way, which is that if theres a limited options on the pull down menu, trump would probably know what all the pulldown options are in the menu and be like, oh yeah, dude is hush money was not one i will say i will say jeff mcconney, controller was asked if trump knew about the pulldown menu. I have a whole exchange here. Let me read this to you because he gets into this a meal, but this isnt the defense is the cross bove asked you just tell lets fight about a series of payments that were made to Michael Cohen and 2017, right . Mcconney says, yes, sir. In that timeframe, 2017, Michael Cohen was a lawyer, right . Mcconney says, okay, meal bove says, right. And then mccartneys assure. Yes. And then bobi says, and payments to lawyers by the Trump Organization or legal expenses, right . Mcconney yes, sir. Bove and you book those payments on the general ledger as legal expenses, correct but connie says, yes. Now heres the part that gets into the nittygritty of the mds system during your 30 something plus years of the Trump Organization, you rarely had conversations with President Trump, right . Mcconney says very few. And during the instances when you did speak to him you didnt talk about accounting software, did you . Mccartney says no you never gave him a tour of the mds system, Right Mcconney says, know bove you didnt have any reason to believe that President Trump understood the details of mds mcconney says correct. Mds is the pulldown menu system. All right. I believe but let me make one point though. The prosecution it doesnt necessarily have to show donald trump opened up that pulldown menu and clicked on legal expenses. Its enough if donald trump knew and i think michael cole will say this. But the plan was, we put this whole elaborate reimbursement play together because he knew and we knew it was stormy. Daniels payment and we were trying to hide it so it wouldnt come out for the election. Thats enough that they dont have to show that he was clicking brown the mds system. I thought i was just going or youre not to me the idea that Michael Cohen is being reimbursed in the form of a bonus, which is some form of Salary Payment plus money that is not paid for Actual Services that he provided shouldnt that structure in and of itself show the jury that trump knew that there was a scheme to pay Michael Cohen for things that he had not actually done. Hes allowed to pay him for things that are not actually done. Hes not allowed to put in the books that he did something that was not actually done. It is a confidentiality green. We call a hush money. Its a Confidentiality Agreement. You dont put in your books 130,000 payment for confidentiality between donald trump and Stormy Daniels. If he put it down as reimbursement reimbursement to Michael Cohen in the book thats all its not a crime because thats what he did he told yeah. Right he did which one is it . Its not for rent, its not for a new roof. Its for legal expenses. Click and go to something else, someone else who has tremendous credibility, Rudy Giuliani said back in may of 2018, this about the payment to Stormy Daniels having something to do with paying some Stormy Daniels woman 130,000. I mean, which is going to turn out to be perfectly legal that money was not Campaign Money sorry, im giving you a fact now that you dont know, its not Campaign Money . No Campaign Finance violations. So they funneled the true Law Firm Funnels row of the president repaid it oh, i didnt know. He did. Yeah. Theres no Campaign Finance law. Zero. So the like every sean so what does the show was made by everybody. Everybody was nervous about this from the very beginning. I wasnt i knew how much money donald trump put it into that campaign. I said 130,000 akin to do a couple of checks for 130,000. When i heard cohens retainer of 35,000 when he was doing no work for the president. I said, but thats how hes repaying thats how we house how hes repaying it with a little profit and a little margin foot paying taxes from michael. What about you. Do you know the president didnt know about this . I believe thats reading i know about the specifics of it. As far as i know. But he didnt know about the general arranger that michael would take care of things like this sweetie remember that its been awhile since i saw him really great ill never forget when that interview happened and how caught off guard shawn hit and he was by Rudy Giuliani just admitting it, saying that no, Michael Cohen wasnt doing any legal work and he was just reimbursing them for paying off the porn star. I mean, when we talk about everything we know, now, that was a pivotal moment. No one knew that until Rudy Giuliani the one went on tv and set it and so even now, trumps attorneys who are born part of his team, then when you ask about that moment theres not really a defense because it doesnt use what Rudy Giuliani said. I dont want to be offensive to anyone. Rudy giuliani said is thats how it works. The individual who is trying to did you a Confidentiality Agreement doesnt write the check to the other person. They write it to the law firm. So the right way to be done here if there was ever to giuliani said he just said the point that he was making there and the takeaway that is that he said Michael Cohen did not do legal work yet. Michael cohen was paid in the led der for legal work. Thats whats at the heart of this okay . But and thats the bookkeeping that is the bookkeeping issue. But having having done these Confidentiality Agreements, the client writes the check to me, i put into my Escrow Account, i write it to the other attorney and the other attorney gives it to their client. Would documentation thats a waves. Arthur but he just used the word book heck, bookkeeping issue. Another word for that is crime. Its not it is a crime if you lie in the bookkeeping what is the crime . If the client says three, arthur, i want to enter into a Confidentiality Agreement with this person for cordova million dollars. Heres a check made out to authorize Dollar Attorney at law Escrow Account i put it in my my Escrow Account. There its their money. Its in my Escrow Account now from there, i write it to them let me ask you this had a crime. If you have had a client pay you back over 12 months with one large retainer check each month for a total of triple the amount you laid out no, because i know the short answer is no, but i dont have the Type Relation with any client the way Michael Cohen has with donald trump. Hes an inhouse counsel. He would rudy said is they had a general arrangement that Michael Cohen would fix things, would take care of these things for him. He said a general arrangement that is not as devastating as it may seem when you look look at it from a Leuser Law Professors point of view. All right. Next crime rods on berman. Thank you. You can try are more on the whole notion of a President Writing Checks to his fixer in the oval office when he was one of his former top advisor for white house Communication Director less so far, griffin on what she makes it at all and what voters might as well beyond saves new album is breaking Records Gaetz to what country . 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So at trumps behest, joining the panel, former Trump White House insider, his former communications director, Alyssa Far Griffin so i mean, do you buy elicit the idea that then President Trump was signing checks in the white house to Michael Cohen without knowing exactly where they were, what they were four. Well, so ive got kind of a mixed perspective. I want to respond something arthur said because i think largely made a good point that donald trump doesnt get into the minutiae of things. But if there are two things he gets into the minutiae of its anything public facing, how hes gonna be perceived in the press and money in my experience, press, if there was gonna be something that went out under his name or that became a story that he did. He was incredibly handson, incredibly engaged, wanted to direct narratives. I did not deal with him as much on the money sayyed, but we would hear it from dealing with the campaign on the outside that hes notoriously a tight wad. Hes not somebody who he does Pay Attention to, how hes spending his money. So i think thats where that kind of an argument falls a little little bit. Its two areas thats just welldocumented that he pays attention to, but its certainly what his side is going to argue and its not about argument. Be careful, you might get called to just your witness. I mean, those are exactly the elements of the case, and i think that they would want to hone in on wine. The idea that he cared about how he was see if he cared about whether or not people knew about the Stormy Daniels thing at that particular moment, and that he cared about his money. He didnt want to pay it. He didnt part with it lightly. To me. I cant think of two more important parts of Donald Trumps personality that are at issue in this case, minus the whether or not he knew whether its just what they were four, this is what makes it hard for the prosecution that you cant really make an argument beyond a reasonable doubt, which is well, of course, he knew of course this is how we behave lets assume, i mean, maybe youre right and that you just cant i mean, if you are having a conversation here about someone in the news, you can make that conclusion, but to the jury, you really need to say witness xx said x, that shows donald trump knew what was in these papers. And i have to say, im no fan of donald trump. I would not vote to convict at this if i were on the jury. I dont think that the case has been made there. I think the intent on the campaign sayyed. Yes. But on the money sayyed, its very complicated. Today was not a sexy de and i do think that document was powerful. The weisberg yes, the notes. But even so, it does not necessarily make that direct link to him knowing it. And do you believe knowing what you know, and the importance of alan why sold bergen their relationship weisberg new were all the bodies were buried essentially, hes gone to prison in order and is not speaking, you can make an educated assumption, but thats the hard part, but the prosecution potentially are the defense wanting to call Stormy Daniels i dont think thats particularly relevant to the case. Its not illegal to have an affair with an Adult Film Star its salacious, at sexy, itll get people to tune in, but they have this one link they need to make without a shadow of a doubt. And it may be that Michael Cohen is the only person who can make that link and hes so flawed in this moment or yeah, i do wonder though if Stormy Daniels would be able to offer for insight into Michael Cohen not being able to operate without Donald Trumps authorization. And the fact that he was stringing her and keep davidson along. They felt like until after the election and saying, well, i cant get in touch with them. Hizon, on the campaign trail, are i cant go to the bank. I cant do this. She could potentially shed light on theyre receiving end of those conversations and what they heard so for the detail oriented stuff, i mean, the idea that trump is not do, dont oriented it. He is what its something he cares about when its something he doesnt care about. Sure. Has intelligence prefers will tell you he stopped paying attention five minutes into their briefing. But remember when donald trump was leaving office, they stopped putting out the daily schedule, which every president has always done their daily schedule, what theyre doing, it would just say that President Trump was very busy making many phone calls and having many meetings because he was upset about about instructed the lower press office. Did you write those it was somewhat beneath lets say i was in a much higher ranking position than the person who actually put this schedule out, Something Like a fourth grader would write like the president was very busy making important phone and they put it out every single day for the last three weeks of his white house because thats what he wanted it to say. He didnt want it to say that he had nothing on his public schedule. He pays very close. But the fact that the fact that donald trump made both most of these reimbursements in 2017 when he was in the white house is interesting cuts both ways. On the one hand, it suggests, well, he was so interested in this, he was so invested in this that he was taking time out from what he was doing as the president to make sure that these checkout signed and got to Michael Collins. The counterpoint is well, he was barely paying attention on crossexamination they emo above. I ask the witness, well, in 2017, he was focused on being president , not these payments. So im sorry to say that. Like each side of every fact, but this is how trials go. The defense is going to have a spin on it. The prosecution is going to have spent i wonder, i know alyssa, you didnt know trump really until the later parts of his time in office. But was he at all focused on his personal affairs is Business Pump Org when you knew him or was it all sort of you was if it was something that again was going to spill over into The Public Eye like he had largely kinda hit handed that off to the sons, were dealing with it. But if there was a bad story, if there was something, wed always get these about his taxes are about his business dealings. He would care about how hes going to play in the preska youre getting a subpoena. I mean, sorry maybe shes already been met thanks to our panel, more breaking news, israel says it is conducting targeted strikes in raffa and urging civilians to evacuated the eastern part of the city of los earlier said they accepted a Ceasefire Proposal. But israel says its not the one that theyd crafted with egypt. The very latest next ill scoop of stories was at the absolute peak of his celebrity in Olympic Heroes Shovan murdered dr. We learned a much darker individual power would really happen with jesse l. Martin sunday at nine on cnn if youre living with hiv imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills good to go off the grid good to go nonstop with kevin uva. Theres no pausing for daily hiv pills for adults were undetectable. Kaba nuba is the only complete longacting Hiv Treatment you can get every other month its two injections from a Health Care Provider just six times a year. 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Gets you going what happened to my inner child, gravy, love and acceptance, how much you love it. He said dr. Coordinate, r2 but totally torqued out crossover the assignment with potty cornish, listen wherever you get your podcasts seven months into the Israel Hamas War In Gaza and other csp. Our proposal is on shaky ground. Israel now it says its military will move forward with its operation in raffa where its ordered evacuations immediately. The sound of gunfire could be heard a short time ago from the Egyptian Sayyed of the raffa border our next Guest Reports that is really forces are moving to take over the palestinian side of the rough er, border crossing. In the next few hours in political and Foreign Policy analysts, barack ravi joins us now. So what are you hearing about . Whats happening on the ground right now . Good evening, anderson. So as far as i know, the Israeli Forces are in the surroundings of the rough crossing. This was the aim of the operation that we saw tonight to take over the palestinian side of the raffa crossing which is a Strategic Site that is, really important for hamas, not only because its the border between egypt and gaza, but also because this thing is cymbol for the fact that hamas is still the ruling power in gaza and without the raffa crossing, a lot of this image for the palestinian population as a whole is being tarnished and thats one of the goals of this operation including also to put more pressure on hamas leader. It has seen war to maybe move and be more flexible in the hostage talks. Tom freeman in the last hour suggested that one motivation of going into this area and holding this area was smuggling in by hamas from egypt, that this is a smuggling route yeah, thats part of it, although the the raffa crossing itself is not where the most of the weapons were smuggled into gaza. There was smuggled mostly through tunnels, but the fact that israelis now at the crossing well give it another opportunity to do something. It hasnt it hasnt done since the beginning of the war. And this is from what i hear from sources where we have direct knowledge of this is that these rallies plan in a few days or a few weeks . To bring palestinians were not connected to hamas, to take part in the operation of the crossing and in the distribution of the a that is coming from egypt. And this will be the first instance where there might be some sort of a governmental alternative and initial governmental tentative to the hamas rule in gaza. Who would they be . Thats a good question. If you ask benjamin netanyahu, he will tell you palestinians were not part of hamas. If you ask minister of defense, you have gallant. He will tell you well, in hamas there are two kinds of people, either hamas or fatah, which are the political rivals. Hamas, theyre affiliated with the Palestinian Authority. So most jenzenjones are that those are exactly are going to be the people even if Prime Minister netanyahu is still saying that he will not accept any presence of the Palestinian Authority in gaza. I think this, is where this thing is going in terms of the hamas said that they had accepted a Ceasefire Proposal. Zero says its not the one that they had been agreed to with Egypt Urban Working On with egypt. What do you know about that . What i think the israelis were pretty surprised hearing commands today, announcing that it accepts a Ceasefire Proposal when especially because they did not know that theres any new proposal that were not aware of. And when they saw the text, they saw this is not we were discussing. This is a whole new thing. And one of the things i hear that israeli officials are also pretty frustrated with the Biden Administration that even though cia bill burns was not talking to hamas, he was there in cairo over the weekend when this new proposed puzzle was being drafted. And the israelis telling me that they did not know that burns or any or other people from the Biden Administration were not transparent enough with about the fact that theres a new proposal that is being formed. So whats the reason that hamas would make that announcement . Is it i mean to sort of get on the side of looking like theyre theyre being rational, they were willing to have this ceasefire and then israel says no and especially, to do it when they know that israel is making steps, initial steps to go into raffa the hamas wants to stop this operation or wanted to stop the separation did not succeed and they tried to push the ball to the Israeli Sayyed of the court its now the israelis are saying, okay, we will go to cairo maybe tomorrow, maybe they later to discuss this new proposal, but they also say this is not what we put on the table ten days ago. This is something completely different and therefore, it is almost as if we will have to start the negotiations from scratch . Rock reviewed its great to talk to you. Thank you were now with cnn, Chief National Curating correspondent alex mark coordinate seen the Military Analyst and retired henry Lieutenant General mark hurdling, alex, i know youve been tracking us involvement and ceasefire talks or negotiations is brar just mentioned bill burns, cia director, was in egypt. What do you know about the directors role in all this . He was in egypt and then he went to doha where we believe hes still is. Hes had a very central role in all this and Anderson Barack is absolutely right. Theres been a real evolution in the past week, egypt was working on something that israel had some input in. And then we understand that the talks between egypt and hamas were progressing thank but in a way that the us and qatar, both of those are two other mediators felt that israel would not actually end up agreeing to those terms. So they kind of took hold of that framework. Im told and when burns went to doha, he worked with the qatari Prime Minister to rework the language that was then handover, hand it over to hamas and thats what hamas eventually responded to. Now anderson is youve noted hamas is saying that they agreed to the framework. What were told by us officials, its more that they responded and they had a take of their own and weve seen a document from hamas that is still good to have, still has significant gaps with israel the good news is that the talks are progressing is brar mentioned there . Theyre going to be going on in cairo. Israel is expected to send a team. Qatar is expected to send a team. The less good news is that is not happening at a senior level. Its happening below that bill burns level at what we call the working level or that experts who go over the finer points. So these talks are inching along but significant gaps still remain. Anderson, im in general hurtling in any negotiations. Its odd one, sayyed said theyve publicly make a statement saying theyve accepted a ceasefire deal. What do you make of hamas saying that . Well it was fascinating today. I that hamas announced or someone announced that they had accepted the deal that hadnt been coordinated on both sides is alex just said, but heres the important part. I think one of the things that were overlooking as the element that affects combat and warfare that both tactical and the strategic level is time. Since the start of this war, time has been on the side of hamas. Its a critical part of their strategy along with their tunnels and theyve wrap themselves around the palestines so that anything that can help create more of a humanitarian crisis our gives israel a bad image is something that they want to do. It isnt just their approach. Its their strategic objective. And were seeing that today is as soon as first of all, when they talks were going on over the weekend, as you know, hamas launched 15 missiles at one of the crossing sites and killed several israeli soldiers. Israel walked away at that point and said, we cant cant continue to do this, then today they announce it all the palestinians are shown dancing in the streets of gaza and israel now is the bad person because theyre conducting a rough operation. We say said they were going to do if they hadnt heard from hamas about release of hostages. So its continuing the work against israel anytime theres a delay when time is on hamas aside, it is not on israel side from a Strategic Perspective because were seeing the world increasingly turn against anything that israel, alex, what are some of the details of the proposal that hamas allegedly accepted . Well interested in from, from the way its laid out, it looks like the first phase is expected to be the easiest probably. And weve been talking for weeks, if not months about a multiphase deal, three phases each expected to last around six weeks. The first one the hamas is expected to release around 33 israeli hostages but anderson, were also learning they may not all be alive. These would be women, men who are elderly men who are sick and wounded. But if hamas doesnt hit that 33 number they would be expected to compensate with bodies and theyre around 30 plus israelis who are believed to no longer be alive hundreds of palestinians, but also get released from israeli prisons goblins and the southern part of the strip would be expected to go back up back up to the northern part of strip, but anderson, those sticking points that i was talking about hamas wants to see israel pull its military back. If not entirely out of the gaza strip, but away from central gaza, thats something that israel hasnt shown any inclination to wanting to do the others. The question about a permanent cease fire. Hamas is made clear they want a permanent cease fire. But again israel, i said that they still have lot of work to do to eradicate hamas. And thats why were seeing the beginning of this operation. And raffa, alex marc origin no more cartilage. Thank you. The news continues, including shanon special primetime coverage. The foreign presence, hush money, trial, more after a short break were here to get your side of the story. This guy who was a crusader against Human Sex Trafficking is actually a customer. Its someone at the white house blow the cover the cia operative, this is hard to find. Shes still endangered the staff said he was hiking the Appalachian Trail when did you realize you might actually be going to prison . Yes you cant write this stuff. United states of scan with jake tapper now streaming on macs three Sandals Jamaica sales. Now odd with race from 1909 per person per night, these its sandals. 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