Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240703

Felt as though it was an embarrassment wow, thats Pretty Amazing to think about that. All right, jason, thank you very much. Thanks to all of you, anderson starts now good evening welcome to our continuing special coverage. The trumps new york Hush Money Trial how they ten saw prosecutors, but for more alleged gag order violations before the judge and the Defense Paint paint expected witnesses, Michael Cohen and current witness, Keith Davidson is the true culprits in this case, not trump. Davidson, as you know, represented Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal and secure deals for their silence about alleged affairs with trump in the crucial months before the 2016 election. But any effort to make them the villains and donald trump, the victims countered by prosecutors who played the Phone Conversation, Michael Cohen secretly recorded and seen in next lucidly obtained, featuring donald trump taking an active role in the Karen Mcdougal deal need to open up a company for the transfer of water that info regarding our friend david so im going to do that right away. Id actually come up. I stopped spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding yes and its all the stuff all the stuff because here is you never know where that Company Never know what hes good at gets it. Correct. So im all. Over that. And i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be what have to pay yourself getting old i got no, chance forensic analysts from the das office also took the stand today, testifying to the chain of custody of that recording that you just heard. Now, this was necessary because unlike in most trials, the defense is refusing to stipulate that certain evidence entered into the record is true. As to this mornings contempt hearing, prosecutor chris asked judge juan merchan to sanction the former president for a second time this week, for an additional four violations they say of his gag order after court today, he mentioned those restrictions and cited them inaccurately to make this false claim. Well, im not allowed to test if i am under again i can testify now were going to be appealing the games but im not allowed to testify because this judge who was totally inflicted as me under an unconstitutional gag order, nobodys ever had that before. Theres never been any abuse like this before. This conflicted, judge, you to get added this case, you shouldnt be he should not be having this case. He gives us nothing. Its such a rigged court so im not allowed to testify because of it unconstitutional gag order were appealing the gag order and lets see what happens that plain and simple in legal terms is nonsense. He has every right to testify in his defense. He has said that he would then last week he waffled saying he would testify, quote, if its necessary now, it seems to be laying the groundwork for backing out entirely. As always, plenty to talk about back with us as new york Defense Attorney arthur for 1, a former federal prosecutor bestselling author Geoffrey Tube and cnn news nine Anchor Abby Phillip sources, kaitlan collins, cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and the new york times, maggie haberman, who was in court today, maggie. What was in court today . Its surreal every day, but i would say that the strangest moment came toward the end of the day and it was a rough day of testimony. Keith davidson, the former lawyer for Stormy Daniels, testified for a long time and trumps lawyers actually did get some dings into him on crossexamination. It got very tense. He got very flustered. He ended up sounding pretty weaselly as he was giving answers. But prosecutors played these exchanges between the cohen secretly taped. One was with Keith Davidson and then the other was Michael Cohen and trump but youre just played. And that takes, is basically what jurors were left with as the most dramatic testimony for the day. There was some other not particularly interesting testimony at the very end, as you say, from a custodian of records basically saying that he had checked out cohens phone and it was all forensically true that this material came from it. But we still dont really know what the jury thinks. And i think thats really important to bear in mind. Can you describe the Cohen Trump Recording is a doozy. Well, i mean, look, weve heard this tape for which again is a legal term, so right. Thank you for clarifying for me. Its been six years, almost to the day that we know about this tape. And so its obviously not new to us, but i think when you are hearing it a as a juror and be in the context of that courtroom. It just sounded very different, particularly at a time when trumps lawyers were arguing that this was essentially old, just Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen. They didnt make this argument explicitly, but they were leaning into the idea that these two were just freelancing and the davidson was essentially extorted trump. And so that that didnt get dispelled from that tape. But the idea that trump didnt know what have its also the first time that the jury has heard from trucks thats because i mean, we see him talk going into the court coming out of the court saying things that are true is you just show there, even though todd blanche his attorneys shook his head. Yes. When the idea that hes not allowed to testify just is not true it and trump looked him for affirmation and he shook his head. Yes. But in the courtroom, trump is very quiet. He mullis first, his attorney, something that they were kind of annoyed about. It sounded like today when its reported how often theyre speaking. But you cant hear what hes saying. And for the most part, he has his eyes closed a lot during the prosecution asking questions the witnesses he was watching as Keith Davidson was being crossexamined today. But this is really the first time the jury has actually heard trumps voice, which i think is what makes that tape. So remarkable. So many elements of that tape. To analyze. And if youre the juror and youre going home for the night and youre replaying it in your mind, maybe some of them have heard it before maggies point. Its been out there for a while. But for just the fact that it exists, i think is incredibly notable. Michael cohens tone in the call is also incredibly notable. Trump then kind of correcting him about the means of funding this thing that strikes out to you immediately that he wants it to be in cash not not finance, quote, unquote. Theres so many elements of it that if just from a human perspective, not a legal perspective that replays in my mind and i imagine the jurors would be thinking about all of those aspects of it as theyre trying to analyze that takes you from a lawyer. But what i think today, we saw almost for the first time is there is a coherent theory of the defense in this case, you may not buy it and the jury may not buy it, but the theory here is that Michael Cohen and keith david sen. Cooked up a profitmaking scheme to get money out of donald trump on the eve of the election. And by the way, Michael Cohen made over 400,000 out of this scheme which you got later in 2017. And you know, thats the defense here. Its not crazy and it may yet be refuted by the prosecution, but at least it is a theory of why donald trump is my job. What im just trying to be here, im trying to be fair. So since you did my job for me ends in the part that im still struggling with is that individual who was the president of the united states, who wants to be the president of the united states, said something as really so foolish that i can testify because of this gag order as a citizen, ill take my hat off as the Defense Attorney as a citizen, that thats scary actually, i mean, you learn that its like sixth or seventh grade, right . You have a constitutional right to defend yourself. You learned about miranda rights, anything you say can be held against you. And look, i feel my heart goes out to todd blanche. I dont know. You do, but you know, youre in that position and trump is such an overpowering presence and he says something ridiculous like that. And your instinct is to protect him. But you want to correct them and thats a disaster i mean, he nicholas statement, but it doesnt impact. Does it in practice what about this . Tape for a minute . Because that to me is maybe the single most important piece of evidence in this case. This is the tape Michael Cohen made secretly of donald trump when Michael Cohen was the lawyer and donald trump was the client in 2016, i promise you a lot about Michael Cohens confidence in his client inherited his voice. So thats the first place i was going to start and i have scrutinized this tape. I have listened to. I have a piece coming out on it tomorrow. Ive listened to every word of it. I hate this tape from a prosecutors point of view. First of all, the circumstances, how shady is that from Michael Cohen to secretly arthur aidala, you ever secretly recorded one of your clients or even think about it exact point the universe, but its on my legal color, right . And it shows how should, so thats point number one. Point number two, the tape itself, its good for prosecutors in that it shows for sure donald trump knew about the payments to Karen Mcdougal, knew it was 150,000 and was okay with it. But thats not the crime. I keep saying it. The crime is in the accounting of it, the structuring of it. And when it gets to that trump is fairly ignorant of that and cohen says to him, and i quote, no, no, no, no, no, i got it. And later he says, leave the stuff, lead the nuances, the details to Allen Weisselberg and me, and thats the defense right there down. Trump knew theyre paying hush money. Hush money is not a crime. The structuring of it that was Michael Cohen and always berg, they kept trump out so we know from the tape, i would make the argument that we dont know what cohen is going to testify to. We do know that cohen versus trump would be or cohen versus the defense will be a he said he said and then the jury is going to have to decide which one then they believed we have seen the prosecutors already extracting testimony from various witnesses that is not favorable to Michael Cohen because what theyre clearly trying to do is take the air out of a bag reveal when the defense cross examines cohen, but i dont know that all we know is on this tape there. All we can definitively definitively know is on that tape, but i dont know what else is going to be said. And i do think that the documentation in this case look, i think we have not heard a whole lot about with the actual crime is we have heard a lot about a conspiracy. We have not heard a whole lot about what the actual crime that they have charged him with. And i think that you will hear the defense talk about that, but i do think that the documentation in the case and that evidence is pretty significant. Its not just relying on testimony. Yeah. I will set the trump team feels really good about how the crossexamination of Keith Davidson went today, especially where he was talking about Michael Cohen and how Michael Cohen calls Keith Davidson kind of using him as a therapist to lament the fact that trump was not going to bring him into the administration. And Keith Davidson testified that cohen seemed suicidal and that point because of everything that was happening. But where they felt that it was really the most effective was going after davidson were got incredibly contentious for the first time that weve really seen it be that high of a temper, i think inside the courtroom as they were drilling down on him, questioning him about whether or not he was extorting trump, likening the other people that he has worked with when it comes to whole cogen, lindsay lohan, charlie sheen, and kinda trying to flustered Keith Davidson, which it seemed to be somewhat successful. I dont know what how it read in the courtroom right in the core. It was it was it was tough sledding. I mean, it was really hard watching it just in just two days ago, two days ago, he was polished and he got almost timid. One thing that was very striking to me and my colleagues watching this is that when david pecker was walking, who is the former am i had was walking through his details of his engagement with Michael Cohen and really this business of sleaze that he was in charge of he didnt seem ashamed at all. He was almost carefree about the whole thing. Keith davidson seemed really embarrassed as he was getting pushed on the kinds of deals that he was seeking over and over and over again in terms of pushing celebrity he is i have this client who claims they had an affair with you or this that and the other and in that way, pecker is actually much more like trump, where there is just this sort of, im not going to be shamed out of The Ring Davidson came off angry, sheepish on certain hostile at certain points, and he got his backup a few times and seem to find its footing, but it wasnt it was not a great doubting for him. Theres a reason and emil bove eight has been very strong in these crossexaminations. So he, and hes one of the defenses maybe one of the reasons and the lawyers who you can talk to it that the difference between pecker, who is businessman, hes in this just to make money he doesnt care as lawyers, we have these ethical obligation its worth old ways they supposed to be a moral high ground. Youre not supposed to be extorting people. Youre not supposed to be accused of extorting people. As a lawyer, youre not supposed to be investigated for extorting people as a lawyer and all of those things happened to him. So i can see it being much more defensive, been pecker saying yeah, did this and i made the Company Millions though. One thing i think we youve learned today was why david pecker was put first by the prosecution because the argument in the prosecution is look, pecker and trump inperson, not some deputy, but checker and trump made this agreement to protect him before the election all the rest of this is the execution of that. And sure, these people are the defenses. Keith davidson is terrible Michael Cohen is terrible, but the preska and the prosecution is going to ask at the end of the case, is who benefited from all this . Who is who is the person who is above it all of the fine details, but who to set this process in motion. The argument that prosecution is going to make is that it was donald trump and he was he said it in motion and he was the beneficiary and all these sleeves fact, all these sleazy people were just doing what trump will also is the argument that all these sleazy people are living in the petri dish that donald trump has built. Well, thats i think the real risk and im curious what the lawyers on this panel thing, but i think that is the real risk for the defense with what the jury here is. The jury here, that theres gradations of this or theres the jury hold donald trump accountable for everything theyre going to hear about Michael Cohen, about david pecker, about Keith Davidson, that this was what was taking place. Michael cohen worked for donald trump for a really long time. And its probably going to be a big stretch for the defense to ask the jury to believe that Michael Cohen was off doing his own thing all the time especially given that relationship, i hundred percent agree. I mean the question comes up, how do you substantiate whether donald trump was fully aware of all the contours of it, not just that the payment was being made, but that it was being made for the purposes of the election, et cetera, et cetera. But one of the things that i think some of these witnesses have a stat has established is that trump uses emissaries intermediaries to execute the things that he does. And from a common sense perspective, if youre on the jury, i dont think thats hard to understand. That a person like donald trump would use a Michael Cohen to do as dirty work. I mean, its just its just not that hard to bridge that gap from just the common sense perspective. Weve got to take a quick break next. John berman, whos been going through todays Trial Transcript with the closer look at the picture of the jurors are getting of Michael Cohen. Also the very latest from University Campuses around the country, including ucla. Were police moved in overnight water would help us. 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Break about how the defense soon crossexamining former Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal, attorney Keith Davidson tried to leave jurors with the impression that he was in effect on a shake down their client, also, to cast doubt on the credibility of expected upcoming witness, Michael Cohen, six years ago, scene and serviceside in your talk to davidson about his dealings with cohen, he had this to say, but the financial range at the heart of this trial did Michael Cohen ever indicate to you that he was paying this 130,000 for Stormy Daniels out of his own personal finances . Yes. And back then, did he say to you, look, im having to take a loan out of my house to get this done is that a yes . No now theres never any conversation about them joining us now with more of Keith Davidson, final hours on the stand, john berman. So the prosecution Asked Davidson about that exchange in that interview. Yeah. Very specifically. And once again, told the jury the same thing. Basically, he told sarah signer steinglass, the prosecutor asked my next question is, do you directing your tension, i guess too early april of 2018, did you go on cnn and say that Michael Cohen used his own funds to pay Stormy Daniels. Davidson says, i believe so. The prosecutor s and why did you say that . Davidson says . Because i understood that he did prosecutor based on the same statement that he made at the time of the transaction question, Mark Davidson said does an even later on that at december 9th conversation that i had with him, a Department Store where he said he had not been reimbursed just so you know, in that Conversation Davidson said, quote, that fin guy is not even paying be the 130,000 back. So you can see here, he wants again is saying it was specifically from cohen in one other bit, i want to review that just came out now, they just released the second part of the transcript from the de in this gets to what you were both saying, jeffrey, especially about the theory of the offense that in a way trump was being extorted to pay this money. This is an exchange about leverage. Emil bove, the Defense Attorney in this case, Asked Davidson that was ms daniels goal, was it not to create leverage over President Trump . Now, Keith Davidson initially says no. Then later, a Meal Beauvais says, do you recall saying that mr. Cohen i wont be the lisbeth least bit surprised if he comes out and says, as you know what Stormy Daniels she wanted this money more than you could ever imagine . I remember hearing her on the phone saying, you, ethene Keith Davidson, you better settle this god story because if he loses this election and he is going to lose, if he loses this election, we lose all fing leverage. This case is worth zero. Do you recall saying that to mr. Cohen this time davidson says, i okay. So this is the sleeves factor and it is through the roof. In this case. And part of it is atmospheric. They want to just turn off the jury. The defense wants the jury to just think who knows, this is a bunch of people who lie and threaten each other and paige other off. But it also goes to an important prong of the defense if the defense believes this is a shakedown, and im not talking about the legal elements of extortion just in the normal use of that phrase, a shakedown. Its over. There is no crying here. The alleged crime is theyre trying to do something to get a benefit in that campaign. And theyre intentionally trying to get around Campaign Finance laws that none of that works. If this is a shakedown, and i was surprised today hey by the extent to which a prosecution allowed and the judge allowed this specter of extortion to be injected into the case where investigated. Mr. Davidson for extortion . Yes, i was not charged, but investigated at boy every time the defense just says that word extortion over and over, its ringing a bell. I believe youve with the jury, and i think its gonna be a problem if you remember us to your point, do you remember todd blanche opened on it and is opening statement, any called i believe either called storming and are referred to extortion objection. Sustained. Strike that. From the record. So in his opening, when todd blanche said the evidence is going to show Stormy Daniels was extorting you. The judge wouldnt let him use that word, but it turns out thats the direction theyre and let me ask you, but i can just read one little bit of that in this case, the Defense Attorney says, in 2016, you were pretty wellversed in getting right up to the line without committing extortion, right. And then davidson says, i dont understand your question. Getting the word in say yeah. But i mean, jeff if even if it is extortion or was an attempted extortion if why would that nullify it as . I mean, if trump decides to pay it off to avoid that to meet their demands, couldnt that still be about the election . Well, i think if he is the victim of a crime, you would not. Yeah. I dont think the jury would find what is the difference between torsion and with that, i think is the key the issue here is that anytime you pay someone not to say x, which is not illegal, i mean, you pay someone or you have a noncompete agreement. You are paying someone so they will not do something and you can argue that that was extortion, but this i mean, i can see whether government would respond and say, look, this isnt extortion, this is donald trump paying to make sure a bad story doesnt come out, period. Thats davidson was so parsing his words today with the prosecution when they were wrapping up with him before the crossexamination, he wouldnt even call it hush money. He he he wouldnt even go that far. The way he was describing this agreement with Stormy Daniels, what i was going to struck by was how also they got into just how far this stretched stretched. When donald trump was in the white house. I mean, it was january 2018. Donald trump was delivering the State Of The Union all of this stuff was percolating out there. The Wall Street Journal was reporting and following up on it and other outlets. And i remembered that was the state of utah where it belongs. Trump drove separately from donald trump because she was irritated by what was becoming public while we were learning about meanwhile, they were furiously racing around Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen to stop her from speaking either that excerpt from the testimony that berman just read Stormy Daniels knows this is all about the election. She says, when this election is over, i dont have any leverage anymore that that suggests to me everybody involved in this transaction knows that the money is being paid to keep this information away from the voters are going to be been talking about how its not about whether the money was paid or not it was about how it was done and the way it was it was kept from the public. So i guess im wondering. I if donald trump was the victim of extortion. Maybe, but either way, he still concocted a scheme to pay the money in a way that was allegedly illegal think thats a helpful reminder just again, because people sometimes may lose track of what exactly the crime is. The payoff to Stormy Daniels is a twopart transaction. First Michael Cohen took this hundred 30,000 down off his mortgage, paid himself over to Stormy Daniels through Keith Davidson. Then in the weeks and months after that, he was reimbursed for multiples of that force 400 something thousand dollars through donald trump and the Trump Organization through a series of checks and the allegation here is that reimbursement using this series of checks was a fraud. They tried to make it look like donald trump is paying legal fees retainers to Michael Cohen to cover up the fact that what was really happening is they were reimbursing them for the one 30 paid to Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet in connection with the campaign. And i agree, by the way the evidence that this is related to the campaign is overwhelming. I dont see how any realistic jareh or could think there was not some substantial campaign relationship, but its really quickly just he didnt make money off of this. The reason it was higher than what he paid is because of the taxa that he was going to take it you got 60 get a 16th, but 60,000 was for actually doing this. So thats what he says. He was paid for. It was a leak yeah. Shes saying that was part of his legal fees. But to your point i think if the fence and Jeffries Point if the defense is successful with that line like it, were going to lose all leverage, leverage of what, leverage of what leverage to extort him leveraged to get the money from them. Were going to lose all leverage. In other words, why if hes not running for president in the united states, then hes got no reason to buy this im sorry. Maybe were about to make this point you can say its leveraged for extortion, but it can also be leveraged because she wants to be paid for her store. I mean, that doesnt, have if you dont hold is not running for president of the united states. If you dont give me money, im going to tell the world that youre sleazebags. Who sleeps heres one, heres another scenario thats if you are, if youre, if youre a victim of a if youre a victim of Sexual Harassment and youve sued someone and theres a limit to the amount of time that you have to do that, right . Thats a lawsuit. Okay. Sure. But but isnt the idea that this came up recently, you come up to the edge of that, of that cry, of that statute of limitations. Lets call it. And then you say you want to get some civil your final lushan. Not if not if theres a lawsuit, but ali can tell you if theres not a lawsuit Michael Avenatti is doing jail time for something very similar because there was no loss and he went in and said, if you dont give me ill defer let me speak about extortion for a second. I charged a watch extortion cases. I get the easy kind, the outbreak your knees kind. Juries understand that just to be clear. Yes. Yes right. Then theres this gray area and arthur is right where what if someone saying im going to come out with information thats damaging to you. Sometimes it gets prosecuted. Michael avenatti is in jail because extorted nike. He said, i have this information thats going to be damaging to your company. Hence, you have to pay me bill cosby before he got in trouble before that all came out, there was a prosecution of a woman who extorted bill cobie where that line is, ill tell you the legal answer. Wrongful. What wrongful means is in the eye of the beholder, its in the eye of the prosecutor. Its in the eye of the jury. Its a gray area. It as a nonlawyer, i can say one of the reasons perhaps that theyve had david pecker in everyone explaining the whole catching kill scheme one mans catch and kill is another mans extortion. You have meetings that donald trump was part of where theyre discussing how to buy these stories are how to keep them from being published. That indicates a certain intentionality that may not a matter. Elie, do you think if Stormy Daniels was telling the truth, but does it goes to the wrongfulness because it is different in the laws eyes and the jurys eyes imagined she fabricated this and i said wrongful is the key question here. Its way more wrongful than if it actually happened. Thats also why the prosecution made the point with keith Keith Davidson, donald trump does not part with his money easily and Anyone Around donald trump knows that hes not just paying someone six figures to keep them quiet. Remember they did quiet one guy who had false allegations, the doorman 30,000 trump that was de am i right . Ami you write coming up, were going to have more new transcripts this time from the Gag Order Hearing and why the defense argued as the former president was not attacking the jury when he said the jury was quote, 95 present democrats challenger is the number one movie in america. Youre saying i should be bladder compete 60 relay, and hilarious why my in your car because youre stupid or stupid. I know. Im just not as disturbed by it as you are. Do not miss this movie. Ill make them suck you in challengers lets get started. No. Wheres your mask . I really tried sleeping with it, everybody, but im done struggling. 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United states of scandal with jake tapper. Now streaming on max more new transcripts this time deal detailing an important moment in the Gag Order Hearing about one of the four more recent alleged violations. This was an interview of the former president gave monday last week when he said that the jury was quote, 95 democrats, judge merchan said he spoke about the jury, right . Hi, then the Defense Attorney, todd blanche response. Pardon me. And judge merchan says, and he said that the jury was 95 democrats and that the jury had been rushed through and the implication being that this is not a fair jury. Thats the implication that was given to anybody that heard that comment. This is not a fair jury moments later, blanche responded. Again. Hes talking about again in a passing phrase about the overall proceedings being unfair and political. The jury joining our panel. Now, former federal judge, Nancy Gertner what do you make, judge gertner, just in general, how much on his handling the gag order drama, so forth. I think hes doing a great job. I mean, he is not being baited hes sort of hewing to the language of his order which has been affirmed. Measuring what trump did by that and really resisting being baited. The gag order during the course of a trial in one sense, is even more important than a gag order before because you have a juror juror sitting there knowing that they are the decisionmakers so the kinds of threats about witnesses and about the jurors themselves matter more than if its just diffusely going out into the public. So i think i think hes doing a great job regarding Michael Cohen. I mean, is it legally relevant that Michael Cohen had been at least until recently going after trump online. I mean, should the judge a man, the gag order should trump can hit back at Michael Cohen. Michael cohen is sort of a public figure as a podcast or i think, i the judge is not supposed to be concerned about the given take in the public arena hes trying to sort of Hermetically Seal his courtroom and michael, theres no sort of invited response michael kahn can say whatever he wants, although i suspect the prosecutors are probably calling up his lawyer now and saying, would you please shut up like now but that shouldnt matter. The judges only concerned about the people in front of him over whom he has authority and to make sure that theyre not responding. Trump will have an opportunity to trash everyone as you surely will, when this trial is over. So i wouldnt worry about his First Amendment rights. I think marchand was somewhat sympathetic to the Michael Cohen issue because Michael Cohen has been beating the hell out of trump and there is a sense of fairness about the response, but that line about the jury, thats the thing thats worse than anything else trump has said, because that means he he has been looking into the jurors backgrounds. That means he has reached conclusions about them and hur honore. Your honor, can correct me, but i think judges are especially concerned about jurors much more even than witnesses, especially public figures like already seen. A juror who was in the jury pool say, you know, i dont wanna i dont want to deal with this anymore, so i mean, he could be concerned about that this is not a jury that has been sequestered, right . We dont really do that anymore. And so these are threats that could affect the very decisionmakers in this case, as opposed to the public in general, which are more concerned about in gag order just before the trial. Threats, theres a big difference between a threat and saying and jeffrey, i dont think youve got to do a lot of research to know that theyre Majority Democrats would he got me 30 of the vote democratic had 87 of the vote. I mean, my 17yearold could kind of figure out whos going to majority of democrats and police said what it was rushed through, which maybe was a little bit. He said, i cant get a fair trial with this jury thats not a threat. He will. Thats an opportunity to say it wasnt a fair trial. He doesnt do it during the course im getting im becoming a judge in a minute during the course of my hearing. Just saying this is my cottage the jurys that third row. You cant talk about the jury at all. I would if i could ask the judge what we while we have you would there come a point . Could there come a point where if you were reassigned to handle the rest of this case and donald trump kept doing this. Would you actually lock him up under contempt thats hard i mean, i think you may reach a point where youd have to do that just to be able to preserve the legitimacy of the proceedings. But men that would be right down the line. I think that merchan did the right thing by threatening it. Heres where were going to start. Were going to start with money and every time youre going to be have to pay money. And im going to consider and detaining you in the in the bowels of this courthouse, which cant be very nice. And then after that, well go somewhere else. But i think any judge would hesitate. Why would it be hesitant though . Because you dont want to . Well, one is a disruption that it will cause. Theres no question about it, and the government didnt even seek his detention today. And i think its one disruption to theyll be appeals its up and down the line, judge. And two renal martyr him. Can i ask you about something that one of trumps attorneys, Susan Nicholas, who certainly knows the new York Court System very well did today. She had this issue, the stack of articles, a lot of comments from legal commentators who are on fox news. And she basically wanted the judge, she said to look through them and make sure that trump could post the without violating the gag order. And the judge said im not going to be in the position of looking at posts in advance. And determining that one. How unusual is that, too . I mean, are they do you think that was effort and good faith or that whether the lawyers effort was in good faith . No. Did you actually want the judge to look through i can imagine that she wouldnt i cant imagine he would indulge that. I mean, i think that that was the right thats sort of a classic prior restraint. Here are the things that you are, the articles you may not post. Now, the other gag order is already a prior restraint. Here are the areas you cant cover, but he doesnt want to get into the nuances of whos saying what he doesnt want to give trump script. He can say, dont do x, y, and z and what trump is doing is not even remotely subtle, right hes attacking witnesses and jurors. Its not even subtle did that a good faith . I know Susan Nicholas for a long time. Shes a task pick lawyer. I am positive. She did that a good faith and she probably said, judge, he wants to retweet this particular article. He doesnt want to violated. Its written by ali, who is on his side and he wants to retweet it. Can he do that . But thats not a judges job to review things in his order. Of course, its his job. Its like what am i going to Twilight Zone . His order. He could change and evaluate if someone violates it, but hes not like theyre to beautiful lawyer totally do i have done it . I did it yesterday. Just yesterday, judge. When my in federal court that youre not allowed to speak to any of your codefendants or any of the employees who worked for the corporation . Well, now hes pled guilty and for his sentencing memo, he wants letters from his former employees saying what a great guy he was. My judge, do it violate your order . Thats what you said. He cant talk to the employees have had can we speak to them . Thats how you adjust your order. If trump had said, can i talk about x and the judge could say yes, that fits within that my order or doesnt it can i talk about why that would be different, but to look at an article and say, well, i think that it would violate the order. Not that doesnt thats way out of line thats not his role. He can say permission here are the lines that im going to draw and any rational human being would know whether or not they have violated. Let me ask you about the pace of the trial so far, judge. The judge merchan said earlier, theyre seeing that appears to be running ahead of schedule do you concur with that . Is that well, you said six to eight weeks the Jury Selection did take was was quicker than anyone anticipated, which has actually made ultimately be an issue in the case. But it sounds like from his own model of when how long this was going to be and it is moving more, it is moving more quickly, which goes back to the question about trumps Speech His De will come. Its not that he will be forever barred from talking about this case. Hes only going to be barred while jurors are sitting there. But if i can just add one point about the gag order for all of trumps complaints. Hes been abiding by it. He gets up and he says this gag order is outrageous. The judges so all of which hes permitted to say. But ever since the Contempt Finding he has not talked about jurors, he has not talked about witnesses. So i think actually in the system is working is not and trump is not prohibited from talking about this trial. He is prohibited about certain from certain categories and hes hes actually following those rules i can do Concern Stuff that predated the gag order. Well, that predated the finding of the violation. Right. To tell the judges point. In this case. Theres been sorted elements of this case. Trumps conduct outside the courtroom, i think has been a boring, but the trial itself is running smoothly. An efficient i mean, everyones behaving themselves. The lawyers generally are doing a good job. Judge merchan, i think is doing a nice job of keeping this thing on track. And i think thats important because everyones watching this trial and it really needs to be fair and efficient and not a circus. And i think to all the parties credits, thats where were at so far, not making any promises, but as of today that thats my raises a different question, which is, boy, do i wish they were cameras in this courtroom . I was a federal judge and we did not have cameras. I think that was so totally wrong. It would be wonderful to be able to see a dignified proceeding in the midst of immediate circuits that thank you, everyone. More on the trial coming up, but coming up next for this break, the latest on the protests on some college campuses, the scenes from Ucla Last Night and this morning, smoke bombs and flashbangs used to break up the encampment, their love a live report from campus. And were pros and biden said today about the demonstrations across the country welcome to the roots of our legacy were excellence comfort and electricity are forever in blue welcome to beyond. The mercedes, my buck. 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Well, please, were getting Fire Extinguishers and other projectiles hurled at them police have now arrested more than 2000 protesters over recent weeks, more now from cnns Stephanie Elon uncertainty at ucla, after police cleared a propalestinian encampment in the wake of a standoff with hundreds of demonstrators wednesday night police breaking down barricades shooting Rubber Bullets launching smoke bombs and flashbangs, and arresting more than 200 protesters the protest site dismantled after a clash erupted tuesday night, when counter protesters, some of whom were proisrael, threw objects at tents hurled fireworks, and pull down barriers set up by the propalestinian encampment. Uclas chancellor calling the attack, ill quote, dark chapter in the universitys history in the morning light, only trash, graffiti, and discarded tents remained of the encampment they campus now swiftly been cleaned up nationwide more than 2000 people have been arrested on college and University Campuses in the last two weeks including at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire and portland State University oregon. Police officers in riot gear cleared barricades pushing out more than two dozen protestors, holed up in the College Library but many of the protests in recent weeks have been peaceful. Including this one at George Washington university, with dueling demonstrators some universities like columbia initially sought to negotiate with protesters while others called in Law Enforcement from the start to manage emotional protests focused on a highly charged International Crisis but i know objects were being thrown in officers during the night, the unrest closing campuses, and even canceling some graduation ceremonies. Ucla students forced into remote classes for the remainder of this week. Rutgers university postponing or relocating some final exams the challenge. Now, for College Administrators where protests were held and were arrests were made at more than 40 campuses nationwide to move away from confrontation. And focus back again on free speech, safety, and education its definitely. 11 joins us now from a ucla. So youre learning some new information about what happened leading up to the Police Taking action last night. I understood thats right. Anderson weve heard through the chancellor of ucla put out a statement saying that it was just becoming too much of a focal point of violence, having this encampment on campus. And that is why they decided to dismantle let even though the vast majority of the people were peacefully protesting. And he also noted that there for about 300 protesters that on their own volition decided to go ahead and leave the encampment before the arrest began. You have to keep in mind, they were making many loudspeaker. Notice is telling people to leave before they started those arrest. Anderson 70 you and thanks so much. Prison biden to address the unrest on campuses seeking to strike a balance between the right to play oh, Testing America and the rule of law vandalism, trespass, breaking windows, shutting down campus is forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations. None of this is a peaceful protests threatening people intimidating people. Instilling fear in people is not peaceful protests. Its against the law. Which one is now senior White House Correspondent kayla tausche, ward moore did the president say, well, i understand the president was trying to outline very clear differences between what he sees as the right to peaceably assemble and issuing a forceful condemnation shin of anything like antisemitism or violence. Heres more of what the president said we are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent but neither are we allow us country where are Civil Society an order must prevail. Theres the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos as officials tell me that biden was motivated in no small part by the imagery that we just saw from ucla overnight, the repeated involvement of Law Enforcement on campuses nationwide. And what he since was mounting pressure in recent weeks to step up and deliver some of these more forceful remarks. Im told that senior aides were monitoring more official channels of local governments and Law Enforcement, but younger staffers here at the white house, were also adding some of their firsthand accounts from peers that they know who were on campus and sending some of these social media images and videos to inform the way that the white house was thinking about this. Remember anderson, President Biden himself is going to deliver to commencement addresses in just a few weeks time at both morehouse and westpoint and when i asked the white house what sort of ten are they expected to encounter when he did that . They said they couldnt possibly predict that. Do ever since from white house officials, what their strategy is Going Forward with these protests . Well the president said today that he does not plan to call up the National Guard is some republicans have called for. He also said that hes not going to change tack with this strategy in the region. Of course, the white house has been pinning all of its hopes on this deal. Thats currently being brokered by Secretary Of State Antony Blinken in the region this week to usher in a ceasefire to free dozens of hostages. And White House Press secretary karine jeanpierre, when i asked her earlier this week about how close that is and whether that would end the protests. She said, we want the same thing as the protesters. We all want to end the war. Anderson, google sheet. Thanks so much, much more to come on. They ten of Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial where talks about tomorrow when the judge might rule on what prosecutors say are new violation the gag order smart lander offer the ultimate smart protection easy removal, cleaning, and install. It smart its smart luck when anyone in this housewares white, it doesnt stay white for law white to our class. Thats risky or it has no rules, mom white with coffee, a dangerous endeavor, light to soccer. Im not going to slide tackle. 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Thanks to Governor Newsom and leaders in sacramento, we can lift workers out of poverty. Stop the race to the bottom in the fastfood industry. And build a california for all of us. Thank you governor and our california lawmakers for fighting for what matters. And theyre all coming . And our california lawmakers those who are still with us, yes. Grandpa whats this . Your wings. Light em up gentlemen, its a beautiful. Day to fly. As easy as 123 im Caitlin Polantz at the federal court in washington. And this is cnn trump Hush Money Trial gavel to gavel coverage this is unprecedented to have a candidate for the whites it house as a criminal defendant. Weve never been here. The weight only cnn can bring it to you seeing that reporters are covering every angle of this trial, legal insight, Expert Analysis lets go through some Key Takeaways and realtime updates line from the courtroom. This is riveting testimony that we are getting. Follow the facts, follow the testimony, followed oh, cnn 9 00 p. M. Here in new york de ten, the trump Hush Money Trial ending with a false claim from the defendant that hes not being allowed to testify. The day began with prosecutors seeking additional Contempt Judgment against him. But things really heated up during the testimony. Stormy daniels and Karen Mcdougals former attorney, Keith Davidson the prosecution played the Phone Conversation that Michael Cohen secretly recorded and cnn exclusively obtained featuring donald trump taking an active role in the Karen Mcdougal deal. Were going to be talking about that and the impression that it may have had on the jury throughout the program. If youre just joining us heres that clip i need to open up a company for the transfer of all the bat info