Transcripts For CNNW Erin 20240703

Here. We also know that there are other officers standing by at the rest to move in much for watching, Erin Burnett Outfront starts right in front. Next Breaking News, the deal to silence Stormy Daniels perform our attorney explaining in vivid detail how he believed trump was behind the payment to keep daniels quiet. I was in the courtroom and ill tell you what i saw today, sitting about 25 feet away from trump, plus Breaking News, New York Citys mayor just announcing the chaos on columbias campus needs to end. Now, there is a heavy Police Presence lining up outside the campus. Were going to take you there ive are reporters there on the scene and trump telling a reporter theres a quote, enemy from within, more threatening than china or russia. And says people like a dictator reporter who spoke to trump is my guess. Lets go out front and good evening. Im erin burnett and we want to begin with some Breaking News on the campus. Columbia university right here in new york, there is a heavy nypd presence right Outside Columbia. Where propalestinian protesters have taken over the campus, occupied buildings, Broken Windows, york city mayor eric adams is just announced. This must end now, telling the parents of students at columbia to call their kids right now and tell them to leave the area . Ria before the situation quoteunquote escalates. Me. Go marquez is on the Scene Out Front at Columbia University. So miguel, you are amidst these crowds. Can you tell us exactly what youre seeing is a little confusing, but im going to walk you through at these protests is that were now following his front of columbia for the day, many, many hours tehran, the amsterdam, sayyed and they keep around to the broadway sayyed the base case, the columbia. Thats what police moved in. They shut down broadway completely both directions. What other University Debris can get tons of Barricade Loss of tow trucks, and police buses are scholars her to take physician and a much much increased police well, it is very clear, but somethings going down at columbia today grastys protesters were protesting the gate. They then started marching. We are now just near 134 streets and broadway bar to get the harlem at the moment is not there where theyre going but it does seem clear that something that the police will likely move in to remove protesters in that building. Andy and cabinet on the campus of Columbia University, erin. You a quick question to you. I know there have been students occupying buildings today. Wed seen pictures of Broken Windows. Do you have any sense of how many students are still there or how many are leaving in advance of what seems to be a pretty clear soon move from the nypd it is not clear. The Police Believe theres a university, believes theres two to 300 students totally total taking part in this i keep in mind there are about 36, 37,000 students at columbia diversity. So these are universities, sort of big disrupted by these 200 sounds like a small percentage of that of those two or 300 have moved into Hamilton Hall, which is its a place that students have taken over many times over the years. To voice their displeasure with certain policies, whether separate school or otherwise what it sounds like 300 its not how many of them take it up. Two universities offer to sign a form and not be not or suspended. But right now, all those students faced Expulsion Suspension hello erin. All right. Miguel, thank you. Wael miguel live amidst that crowd of protesters at right outside of Columbia University. And as we miguel saying, its very clear, the nypd seems poised to go in. We are following that, so we can show you exactly what happens here. The moment that it does as we wait for that the other breaking story tonight downtown in manhattan. The quote, trump is eft, and that was the quote that came from a text message that Stormy Daniels former attorney sent to the National Enquirer, right after the infamous access Hollywood Tape was released. That was part of key testimony in trumps new york criminal trial. I was in the courtroom today. Its a small room. Its quite intimate space. Were doing. Daniels, former attorney Keith Davidson sat 15 feet or so away from trump and spoke directly to the jury, laying out to them the sleazy backandforth negotiations over Hush Money Payments that are at the heart of this case. Now, davidson was very clear that the payments to the playboy the model Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels were made to influence the election the prosecutor asking davidson, at one point, and this is the quote i wrote down, is it safe to assume from your job that you had an understanding that if you were to close your deal, this would somehow benefit the candidate donald trump davidsons oneword reply . Yes. And he laid it out again and again making it clear that he knew that this would influence the election and telling the jury that he believes trump was behind it. Now i was watching trump and the jury today in the courtroom. As i said, a small space, everybody is very close to each other. Its very personal four witnesses and nearly four hours of testimony, and the jury paid attention the whole time, some taking notes, most though, from what i could see, just turning their heads to listen to the questions and then turning their head to listen to the answers backandforth and fully engage sometimes looking at the screens in front of them to actually pier at very specific documents. One thing that stood out to me was actually that they never noticeably ever looked at trump, even when they walked in and out of the courtroom and i saw that about four times in total. I did not see any of them turned to look at him even though they walk right in front of him as hes standing there, as for trump, he also paid attention, sometimes listening with his arms folded, held head tilted back because youve heard sometimes he fully leaned back in his seat with his legs stretched out. He often spoke to his attorneys, but the time that he was most engaged, that i witnessed was when a witness from cspan was testifying. The witness confirming that trump had spoken at various rallies, and then the prosecution played tapes from those rallies, including this one every woman lied. When they came forward to hurt my campaign total fabrication now at that point when that started playing its short and i played a few trump leans forward, he puts his face right close to the Television Monitor on the desk in front of him. He was riveted trump watching. Trump was his most engaged and intense moment of the trial today that i saw. Meantime, when the story shifts to torrance, Stormy Daniels by name, trumps lists were lips were per his disdain for daniels, of course, coming as he has repeatedly attacked her despite a gag order, his supporters have threatened her and her family. Some of the attacks so vial, i will not repeat them on air, but in a moment i will speak exclusively to daniels bodyguard. And tonight, the judge in the case putting trump on notice because of some of those attacks, one and trump to stop violating the gag order or facetime behind bars that warning came after trump was fined 9,000 in the courtroom this morning for making Public Comments about jurors and witnesses was interesting in this is watching trump is the judge find him for every violation it didnt bat an eye. The former president was completely stoic from my Vantage Point, paula reid is out front live outside the courthouse to begin our coverage tonight. And polo, what stood out to you most today well, theyre in the day began with reports of tension between trump and his legal team. Im told everything is fine between him and his attorney, todd lantern as you saw in court today, the two men appear to be completely aligned as they heard from several witnesses, including one that could really matter for this case, the man who represented two women who say they had affairs with trump today. Jurors in the Hush Money Case against former President Trump heard from a lawyer who represented two women who allegedly had a with him while he was married. Keith davidson represented both Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels. He explained to the jury how he sought deals with the National Enquirer for both both of his clients. He told the jury how the release of the trump access Hollywood Tape suddenly drove up interest in daniel story. I just guessing them, its like a magnet. The jury was shown texts that davidson sent to former National Enquirer editor, dylan howard about both daniels and mcdougal of mcdougal gold davidson texted, i have a blockbuster trump story. Howard responded, talk first thing i will get you more than anyone for it. You know why davidson and were in conversation with abc news about sharing her story. He testified put mcdougal did not want to tell her story and prefer the deal with the national shall enquirer, which would have kept her story from the public at one point, while davidson and howard were negotiating, davidson wrote throwing an ambassadorship for me. Im thinking isle of man. He said that text was a joke about trumps president ial run. That somehow, if karen did this deal for ami, the publisher of the National Enquirer, that it would help Donald Trumps candidacy. Davidson said he received a hefty 45 of mcdougals 150,000 deal earlier in the day, prosecutors questioned other witnesses like Michael Cohens former banker, gary farro, who provided details about a different Hush Money Payment that was made to Stormy Daniels by Michael Cohen. Trump was seen leaning back in his chair with his eyes closed several times during farros testimony, prosecutors also briefly called the Executive Director of c spans archives to the stand. His testimony was used to enter videos of trump into evidence. As you have seen right now, i am being viciously attacked with lies and smears its a phony deal i have no idea who these women are. And for all the days testimony began, judge juan merchan ruled trump must pay 9,000 for violating the Gag Order Put in place at the start of the trial, the judge ruled trump violated the Gag Order Nine Times and charged him 1,000 per violation in an ordered him to take down the Offending Posts by the afternoon, which trump did. The judge raised the possibility of jail time. If trump continues to violate the gag orders, stating therefore, defendant is hereby warrant that the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders, and that is if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarcerated punishment after a court trump made additional comments that all appear to be within the bounds of his gag order. But one more back in court on thursday, they will start with another hearing on what prosecutors say or for additional violations of the gag order. But aaron, ill know that these all occurred before trump was fined 9,000 and threatened with jail. So too soon to say that is having a deterrent effect, right . Absolutely. And he did remove the post at least relevant to what he was what he was punished for today. All right. Paula, thank you very much. Are experts are here with me. So terry austin, you and i sat together inside the courtroom and you have been there every single day. Youre a former Trial Attorney so how was in that context how did you see keith . Davidsons testimony . He of course is the lawyer who represented both Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal, aaron, i think hes been the best so far. He walked into that courtroom. He was very confident he got on thats danny answered the questions and he was very detailed about it and he was funny, he made jokes. You mentioned one of the jokes that he made the isle of man and i definitely think think the jury was listening to him. He was extremely credible and he gave a lot of details about both the Stormy Daniels case and about the Karen Mcdougal, k. And he turned towards the jury. I mean, hes hes a lawyer. He knew what he was doing. I mean, not that others didnt, but he was very purposeful in his take the question and really presented to them absolutely. All right. So ryan, there was another moment that stood out to me, Michael Cohens banker was testifying, completing his testimony, the prosecution is going document by document, how Michael Cohen set up a new corporation and what was the purpose for the corporation . They show documents and again, the jurys watching this, so carefully. What did Michael Cohen said . The purpose of the new corporation was Real Estate Consulting. What was the purpose . This is the wire to daniels attorney retainer. Then that prosecutor asked cohens banker if Michael Cohen had indicated the funds would be used to pay an Adult Film Star as opposed to real Real Estate Consulting would. This all happened . The corporation have been open so quickly, the money transferred and wired out. The answer was unequivocal. That is, an industry we do not work with. So how does this far does this go to proving the falsification of documents that are so central to the case. But certainly proves that the scheme was being used. They were using Shell Companies that were using all sorts of false cities with the banks and otherwise. So that was from the getgo. Now the problem is that right now, thats just Michael Cohen, right . And the big, big question for this trial is whether or not the prosecutors can prove that donald trump himself knew that Business Records were being falsified to cover up the entire scheme, but those are the Business Records inside the trump organization. But this is a very good lead into that particular part of it. So we dont know what they have joe, but certainly today presented a good case for Michael Cohen providing false false representation, but not donald trump. Yeah. Without question. And aerial view. Erin, im fascinated by your description of the volley between the juror is focusing on the answers and the questions the they really were they were yeah thats critical and not looking at drop thats important. Trumps not providing testimony. Right . What the testimony is coming from the witnesses shows to me theyre paying attention, keeping an open mind. People have their minds made up, but doing anything but listening to testimony but look on the issue of establishing the deal, the deal being what he represented the Attorney Davidson who was testifying today. He represented story for me, daniels right. Certainly represented Karen Mcdougal had a lot to say about his interactions with Michael Cohen. What i would anticipate when the right is the defense, his argument that listen, thats great as to your relations with Michael Cohen. What about donald trump . You didnt interact with him at all, did you interact with Michael Cohen . You have no knowledge with respect 20 conversations that took place between trump and cohen, you dont know what at all they were discussing at anytime because you werent there so fascinating as to their Interaction Cohen and davidson, who didnt have such great things to say about Cohen By The Way rao calling him things. I cant repeat, but well see what the defense does certainly in Closing Argument seizing upon that to say trump was nowhere to be seen, nowhere to be found and had nothing to do with this that theyre going to try to say. All right. So terry, when we were sitting there, something happened that hadnt happened before youve been an everyday so you knew to be surprised when eric trump walked in with his father and they walk in. I described it to someone today. I sort of in its traditional sense lets have a wedding walking down the aisle. They walk in and the precession, you get the defense and the prosecution. So in trump comes with his son and then trump turns and looks towards us because thats to face his son. They have a conversation, a brief one. What did you make of that interaction . I think some of it was stage no doubt about it. They do come in the exact same way every day. In fact, they line up the same way, the same people carry the same box. Its, its pretty interesting. And when trump turned around to talk to eric, he looked around the room, he saw you he saw other people and he smiled and he was doing that. I think to show the jury that hes comfortable. He was relaxed. His son as their his family supports him. It was a very pivotal he knew what he was doing. He said to me, how are you . He mouthed but he was he knew everyone in the room was absolutely, absolutely. How important ryan is it for him to have family . There are eric trump, is this the first time he spent or anyones been there . Does that matter in a courtroom like this . A small courtroom where everyone in that jury is well aware that someone from trumps families there, i think i managed a lot. It also matters a lot because of the nature of the case. So its Hush Money Payments to women that hes right. Allegedly having thats right. So if the families there to support him, thats a big deal. Youre saying if melania shows up, that would be big deal, but i think her absence is also highly significant. And in fact, eric showing up on one day and then if they dont others, the others dont show up. I think itd be even more significant that theyre not there. Melania especially so joe, we heard from some witness, a witness say that means seem odd. Some people, which was the head of archives for cspan, and he was very open about being nervous its and he was there for one purpose only, which was in order for the prosecution to get those tapes of which i played a clip and paula play the clip into the record because the two sides hadnt been able to agree on that. So now you got to waste witness time to get that into as an exhibit so what do you make of trumps reaction to that . I mean, as i said, no, i dont mess up our cameras. Here. Buddy leans forward, is faces so close to his little Television Monitor when he saw himself without questions. So lets talk about just briefly, its a little Inside Baseball as to why that witnesses there. He lorries have to lay the foundation, right. You cant just say im admitting this into evidence and if another lawyer doesnt agree, then you have to call while the actual person to authenticate the document presented to him, its a business record. It goes and then you could played for the jury. So thats the essence of why this is important. In most trials. Aaron, what happens is we just agree, dont call anybody. Its going into the all know, he did a rally in greensboro, north carolina, this date, right . We dont need cspan to confirm it but i think critically, what the videos show, i dont know these women. I dont know anything about a meanwhile, if you connect the dots, you heard other testimony, you even heard rode his Administrative Assistant . Yep. They want the contact, Stormy Daniels was in the contact. Listen to trump organization. Right. So as Karen Mcdougal oh, and by the way, start mcdonalds had an interview at some point it may have been from the practice. We dont know so it just goes to show that hes misrepresenting if hes misrepresenting about that what else is he missed . Is that what you think the purpose of this was not too eventually prove that he did indeed have fairs with these women, but certainly he knew them. Karen mcdougal, he referred to as our girl, correct we saw that in some of the communications, yeah, absolutely. This was a lot of to do about just small points, but theres small points. Were going to see that doing the Closing Arguments, these points where he is lying to you about these affairs, and you cant believe anything hes saying obviously, and thats why they took the time to make sure they brought in the cspan guy and anybody else they needed to be custodian of records to get into, right. Even somebody who had taken a deposition and e jean carroll, that a lot of that. All right. Thank you all very much. And next, Stormy Daniels sharing exclusively the violent, disturbing threats that shes receiving now, including trumps supporters, threatening to physically abuse and kill her family. Longtime bodyguard, his neck plus Breaking News out of new york. We are just learning that hundreds of officers from the nypd Strategic Response team have dust arrived outside Columbia University mayor eric adams speaking out moments to go, were live on the ground there as those teams approach and trump has always wanted to live the playboy life have you ever dated a playmate . I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may be true, maybe chair could, a playmate be the one who ultimately takes him down . The whole myth has to be real imagine, feed if you didnt know whether you were next they are both tied up . Yeah. Yeah. I was called in and i saw what turned out to be the biggest heist in history. He went from gold medal winning icon to a pariah would really happened with jesse l. Martin, sundays at nine on cnn why choose asleep numbers, smart bed can it keep me warm when im cold . Wait, know, im always hot number. Does that say 40 on a seat numbers . Limited Edition Smart bad, or 0 interest for 36 months. Shop. Now its the number look, things may seem fine out there that you need to watch out with diseases to how be okay. Does this look okay how, do i protect myself but didnt use skulls health plus lomb food. 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Is daniels prepares to possibly take the stand against donald trump daniels exclusively sharing some of the threats against her without front tonight, and i want to warn you these are disturbing one of them reads, evil will never win. The truth will come out, and i dont know how you live with yourself. Its time you better find god because youre on your way to hell. And theres another one that is so vital that i will only share part of it aloud. Im going to physically abuse your entire family for what youve done to this country. This is a death threat and i swear to god, i will murder you it goes on to, threaten unspeakable acts or family members, male or female. It daniels tonight in the face of all this is defiant. She tells out front quote, no amount of threats will change what happened to the truth is the truth. Joining me now exclusively as daniels bodyguard, travis miller. And you can see him here Holding Daniels hand as she makes her way through a crowd out of reporters travis, this image shows what you have been doing protecting daniel since 2018. So throughout all of this the threats against her tonight, we just shared some of them terrifying difficult to hear have the threats against her ever been this bad i dont think so. I think i think starting out they were they were they were levels of threats and i think at this point its its definitely gotten worse amar biggest thing and my biggest thing is just trying to give a peace of mind during this process and protect your as much as possible i mean, if daniels does come to new york to testify in this trial, obviously, travis, youre going to be the person in charge of protecting her how worried ishee about facing trumps supporters. Some of them are very angry, some of them are threatened violence against her. He has been encouraging them to come outside the courthouse yeah. Yes, maam. I mean, no. She she she shes worried me and then the day i think she she she trusses michi trusss herself and and i think the biggest thing is just is just protecting her and and just give him as much peace as possible during this process. And just, you know, just protecting her the. Most, important. Part of, it. When you talk about that, travis, you are her body guard, you also and working with her become her friend and stormy shared some photos of the two of you with us and she talked about, you. She tells us according about you, travis i know travis would die for me, my daughter, and even her father. He is the first person to believe me he knows and doesnt hesitate to protect me and she tells us travis, that youve saved her life more than once. What do you want us to know about her as a person shes an amazing person and shes an even better mom. You know when it comes to who she is, shes loyal. And when i first met her, i saw that right away and i made her a promise that i would stand by her side from getting from the start to the end and i plan on keeping that promise. And when i take a lot of pride in what i do want to take, a lot of pride and keeping my word on protecting her and her family and i will continue to do that travis, stormy just posted a seemingly benign comment on x and she writes the other day, such a beautiful afternoon at the farm thats what she wrote. One user attacks or four. It says this case is falling apart and real and your ability to remain relevant with it she could have ignored it, but she chose to respond are you watching the same case . It just had two witnesses prove everything ive been saying is the truth and travis and she was unafraid immediately responded. Do you think were going to see this this defiance, this willingness to take it all on on the Witness Stand . Oh man, you know, its not my place so you think about that when it comes it out, but shes a fighter and if theres one thing youve noticed about stormy is that no matter how hard she could, she keeps getting back up and she stays true to who she is, and she never wavers. And i think thats the most important thing when it comes there. All right. Well, travis, thank you very much i appreciate it. And of course, well see if you will be in new york soon with her for that potential and quite likely testimony. Thank you. No. Thank thank you very much next, the Breaking News here in new york, let me just show you some live pictures of whats happening and why pd officers lining up outside Columbia University. The mayor has spoken saying this must end. Now, and just to that, all of these hundreds of officers have approached colombia. Streets are closed. These are officers from the Strategic Response team. They are now on the scene and were going to take you there next. 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You think we should already sold the Car Von Go To Carvajal and track your cars value today shoes, advil, liquid gels for faster, stronger, and longer lasting relief, then Tylenol Rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. So for faster pain relief advil, the pain away, you cant leave without cuddles, but you also cant leave covered in hair with bounce pay you can cut in breast that hair off its the shape break. Try w for free visit otter. Ai. Ai or download the app im Natasha Bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn Breaking News at this moment. These are live pictures out of new york propalestinian protesters have been on the streets as police right now that you are looking at on your screen, these are police lined up Outside Columbia via university. Theres major gates right there on the inside the quad where those tents were, the hall that students occupied overnight. And now these Police Officers, all gathering are Shimon Prokupecz Reporting Hundreds of officers from these Strategic Response team thats who youre looking at. He says have just arrived and he witnessed dozens a vans. And then all of these officers getting out. The new york mayor eric adams, Warning Students who are right now barricaded inside one of the schools main buildings called Hamilton Hall, to leave immediately he says their protests has been hijacked by outside agitators who are grading serious Public Safety issues maybe some of the students involved dont understand what they are involved in we urge those in everyone else violating columbias order to leave the area and leave the area. Now, we cannot wait to this situation becomes even more serious this must in now now the president of Columbia Universitys threatening to expel students who took over that building on campus overnight, breaking windows, blocking doors, with Tables Protesters are showing no signs of leaving right now, Palestinian Flag was waving from the rooftop today of that hall. Right now on the ground, Shimon Prokupecz is there and Miguel Marquez, theyre right Outside Columbia, two different points, but you can see whats happening here. So shimon, lets start with you. I see a lot of those Police Officers behind you whats happening now . This is certainly are in an escalation. These are the officers who respond to any kind of disturbance protests. I been in new york covering protests for quite some time. Ive not seen a response. Like this. Before. These are the Search Themes that they send in, in moments like this. And right now, what weve been seeing here is this is where theyre gathering, just waiting for word on. Whether or not theyre going to be going in. We heard the chief here giving them some lastminute orders that once they go in to put their advisors down because objects could be thrown at them he told them to be officers. He told lieutenants to be Lieutenants Sergeants to be sergeants and took professional. They were going over some of the Strategic Moves the design of the interior of the campus, where the encampment is. Having some lastminute words and were seeing a lot of them to stand around at this point very commonly just waiting for word on whether or not theyre gonna be going into the college, which is over my right shoulder here just a couple of blocks. So at some point it seems that theyre just going to do this. Its just a question of when and theyre just waiting for word. I want to show you here are in behind me here. There are more officers gathering, some of them. I were preparing. You see, zip ties and other gear. Theres also the nypd legal unit as well. Theyre everyone at this moment. Aaron is just standing by to see whether or not the college theyre waiting for permission from the college to give them that permission. That letter, that Legal Authority . To head in into the university. But this kind of response, this is a massive, massive response here and more officers are arriving here. Were seeing chiefs and other highranking officers. Everyone here at the ready on word that theyre going to be moving whats happened here i run it seems based what the nypd and the mayor said that they have information very concerning information that has caused safety concern as a result of that, they have closed pretty much both sides of broadway for about ten blocks. Ive never seen anything like this where theyve closed both sides of the street here in Morningside Heights and they are now just gathering preparing for perhaps the next steps here. The warning has been given, and now we just wait, are all right. Shimon, while youre there, i just want to go just nearby to where are you are but a different Vantage Point to Miguel Marquez and miguel, what can you tell us youre seeing from where youre standing yeah it seems very clear that louise, any University Want these protests to end and they wanted to end tonight. This is broadway, this season, the main gates, the columbia here. Hundred and 16th and broadway. You can see what it looks like. Broadway shut down in both directions for several blocks amsterdam. All way any of us im in the Camera On Amsterdam Avenue i want to do this. I can see and hear protesters on that side of the campus, amsterdam is also shut down. A hugging 20th and maybe 100, those are also shut down right now, police have staged dozens of tow trucks down to 120th. There are big buses done at 120th several different areas that are now shut down. The protesters interestingly, are staying over on the amsterdam side mavi 200 or so protesters came over to columbia, sayyed, a short time ago, about a halfhour, five minutes ago. And then they marched off. They marched we talked you talk at the top of the show. They kept going off broadway into the harlem. Its not clear exactly where they were going if they were trying to protest and go around the city, but police did follow them there. But it is very clear tonights the university has given these protesters warning. Look, this is, they believed this was two, maybe 300 individuals if theyre dealing with both the encampment and then in Hamilton Hall as well that they will happen have to move people out of that. And kevin, which theyve done it before, and then they allowed it to take root again. And then it stayed and out when we are where we are. And then Hamilton Hall is not clear how many individuals are in Hamilton Hall. It sounds like it might be a fairly small number. Ive spoken to students who are inside. So the only fuel i can get in here are essential workers and students who are room and have their dorm rooms on the canvas. Ive spoken to students there. They said its very, very tense in there. Theyre not seeing any sign of Police Inside the campus right now. But it is quiet and they are expecting the nypd to move in at some point this evening, aaron. All right. Miguel stay with us as well. Charles ramsey joins the conversation now, former Philadelphia Police commissioner in dc police chief as well so chief ramsey, you hear shimon and miguel describe what theyre seeing right now shimon talking about in all the protests, hes covered and he has covered so many over these recent years. Now that hes never seen search teams this big and theyre going through plans actual plans of what the layout is inside the courtyard, there being told to put their advisors down to be worried about projectiles when they go in, they prepared with zip ties. When you hear all those details, what do you think . Well i think its about time i mean, this is something that really should have been done before because this is just escalating to a point where its no longer a peaceful protests. You cant break into a building. One of the University Buildings and take it over i mean, you know, the university has allowed this to get to a point where right now force is going to be used to not only get rid of the encampment, but also get those people out of that particular building. So therell be a lot of her arrest that are made hopefully they hold true on their threat to expel the students. That participated particularly and taking over that building and causing damage. I mean, they got to send a message and i hope that universities around the country Pay Attention to this and they need to coordinate with their local authorities and have a game plan because these days get out of control very quickly. So chief theres shimon was also sharing that. Why is this happening right now . Obviously, the occupation of that hall, which is something that students have done at various points over the years. But obviously this time there has been violence windows broken the students are inside again, we dont know how many, but mom was saying that the reason for this happening right now, in terms of these Search Teams Massing Outside is that theyve received quoteunquote concerning information. Now, in the context of what these protests are about, when you hear concerning information and see surge teams like this do you have any specific concerns as to what that information might have been . Well, you have to have concerns is whether or not anyone in their is armed born example. You in anything is possible. You had a large number of people enter that building. They werent search certainly before they went in. So you dont know what they mean . After youve got to be prepared and if nothing else, there are all kinds of projectiles can be thrown at police i went through the vietnam war protests. A khan cow had campuses, so i know it can get pretty ugly and i have no reasonably this wont get ugly because those are the people that have taken over this building. They want that optic, they want that visual, they want cnn and others de, show to Police Forcibly removing people from the buildings and so forth. But. Guess what . Thats exactly whats going to happen. Kalisa will use a minimal amount of force in order to do it. But if they got to clear that building, theyre going to clear that building a period. All right which i was what chief ramsey, stay with me, shimon and miguel are standing by as well. So all can hear us as this develops. Frank bruni also joins me from the new york times, the author of the age of grievance, which was just released today, which is a a poignant moment. For for your, for your book to come out but when we hear all these details concerning information, put your visor is down zip ties at the ready it it doesnt seem that theres a peaceful end. Then as the chief points out, certainly those who are still inside that building dont seem to want it to end in a peaceful, calm way. No, they dont want they want the kind of boldness confrontation possible because that serves there columbia has every right to clear this building out. The New York City, eric adams, the police force has every right. I hope this happens in as proportional and measured away as possible. Otherwise, you are playing into exactly what they want and were just going to escalate the situation and its pretty escalated as frank, im just trying to understand and i know every situation because theres different individuals involved. Right. But yale and brown today succeeded two different ways. But in negotiating and so that encampments were dismantled and things appear to be going back to normal. Some of the students in the case of one of the universities okay, look at the police are walking here as were talking. So were seeing where theyre going as they do that, frank, what do you think is different here about colombia . There has been no ability to tamp it down. Yeah. Im in part of his everything that happened comes in New York City is on steroids, right . We dont we dont know exactly whos in that building and what what effect that has on it. I also think various political actors, and this is indicative of our grievance culture, various political actors have decided to choose this particular circumstance to come in and choose their sides and make their statements. And i think that has accelerated and amplified but things up. Mike johnson for a the speaker of the house a week ago, i was writing about how much i admired the fact that he made common cause with democrats, changed his mind about ukraine aid and then the next day or the day beyond that, he goes up to new york it didnt need to be here. And he says, maybe we should bring in the National Guard. We have to always there by the way, on the steps of columbia when he was there and he came out and he said and did what he intended to do. But he was clearly taking a back and surprised by how many students were there. And at that point, there were only a few hundred, but they gathered and they were not happy it is not what he was expecting, but did he need to do that so many of the voices that have joined this situation and have shouted about it because thats what we do these days. We shall, we dont talk have they been there for just score political points and for their own purposes, or have they been there to really common solve this . I think this has been a sort of this particular situation has attracted political actors scoring points in a way that the situations and some of those other campuses get ready made me somehow, maybe because its columbia, its columbia came he brought he brought for three or four other representatives with him and i dont know. I was standing next to him. The students, couldnt fully hear them and that was a good thing. Because if they had heard what they were saying in one case, thank you all should be ashamed. I mean, there would its been a true a true outcry with the intention of them appearing was for the press conference part, not to actually talk to students, right . They came here because New York City is immediate capital. Where are you and i sitting right now . Were sitting in a studio in New York City. They came here because more cameras are here. More Media Companies are here than in any other city so chief ramsey, i dont know if you can still hear me can you still hear me two friendly. All right. So thats frank and i are talking. We were able to see and its sort of dicey what our cameras can get pictures of or not right now. But we start to see those surge. Some of those surge units but start to move and they werent rushing. They were just moving purposefully from being in situations similar to this, is that how it would go down . They would just walk onto campus or would there be some sort of a i dont want to use the word russian and pejorative way, but a rush no, they wont rush. I mean, theyre formed up in platoons and squads. They each have an assignment. There probably anticipating having instances blocked. So they have to get through that theyll cover the front, the rear mean theyve given people the chance to get out of there and it gets to a point where it too late delete, you know, were coming in and if youre in there, youre going to be arrested and youre going to be charged. And thats probably how its going to go down. So right now theyre just getting it together so that they actually have a plan to make the entry and thats what youre saying, but its not going to be just a rush in there. Therell be controlled. But again once they are inside, i would imagine theyre going to encounter for some resistance. I agree. The forest they use has to be proportional, but some force will have to be used because these guys apparently are not going to leave. And i would be surprised if the majority of them are even students you have people that thats what they do they attach themselves to the legitimate protesters and they cause all kinds of problems. And thats what i think youre looking at right here. Hes gotta be done about yes, its very fast naming these kids were offered the ones that our students that they would be able to not be expelled if they were just two sine sine papers too. Tobacco off today, which, which at yale and brown, this has seemed to work to deescalate, did not happen in this case. But when we look at the images of where i dont know how many people are in there and how many of them are students. But right now in Hamilton Hall on columbia, right near these images that youre looking at, where when the police go in, that is where we anticipate this confrontation will happen we saw the students occupy it, and whoever else was with them, Broken Windows the first thing when you see that broken window, im thinking of that indelible image of the but a president still at the time now, a former president who is romantic if you really believe in something and if youre fighting for it, you do the most provocative disruptive, confrontational thing possible thats what the writers on january 6th did. Thats what these students and their nonstudent allies . Every want to call them are doing here theres this, its all the same sort of ethos, the same sort of approach. And it is all chief ramsey going to be i would imagine on camera because there are people involved who are going to want every bit of it on camera oh itll be on camera, but he just what it is. I mean, you know, you just cant have this sort of thing take place on a regular basis. I mean, two years ago, it was the us capitol today. Its colombia. I mean, whats next . I mean, it just goes on and on. This is not a peaceful protest and the longer you cannot go into a building, you can not vandalize. This has got nothing to do with a peaceful protests. These are people that are there for a whole different purpose. And a police will have to take care of it and believe me, nypd will and the reason you see so many Police Officers is because you want to have overwhelming numbers that actually keeps the violence down. It makes it less likely that people will it all right, well, we continue to monitor this. These are live pictures from the other side of columbia where the surge units or in the other side of the campus, as we are watching what it seems to be an imminent confrontation that may occur here on the columbia campus chief ramsey is going to stay with us, frank bruno we will come back with are breaking coverage, right after this break how wed really having with jesse l. Martin sundays at nine on cnn sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with Viking Unpack once, and get closer to Iconic Landmarks Local Life and Cultural Treasures because when you experienced europe on a viking long ship you will spend less time getting there and more time being that viking exploring the world, in Comfort Maria and khalil thought their life would never slow down then one day it finally you will made to find inner peace we will need to track Flight Prices to paradise hi guys, bill. You look great. 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Now, there are hundreds of surge unit to police on the other side of the campus with visor ready to be pulled down and go in and we have reporters, theyre monitoring exactly what is happening out front now is eric quartile esa. He has a time reporter who spoke to trump, donald trump for nearly 90 minutes and i know eric, youve made a lot of headlines and especially in context of this Breaking News that is unfolding before our eyes tonight you asked trump and these extensive conversations you had 90 minutes over two interviews, if he would call in the military to break up these protests on College Campuses . What did he tell you well, thanks for having me, aaron yes. I asked donald trump about this in the context of comments he reportedly made to his former secretary of defense, mark esper, who wrote in his book that trump suggested during the black lives matter protests in 2020, that he porter the shooting of protesters in the leg . Donald trump didnt deny that he said that he disparaged as birds is worth secretary defense, when i asked whether he would be willing to send the military on protesters as president , he said he likely wouldnt have to because he would rely mostly on the National Guard mostly on the National Guard. So just its just important contexts in light of these images. Obviously, Speaker Mike Johnson called for the National Guard days ago at columbia, that hasnt yet happened, but we do see these as our reporter said, the most surge police that hes ever seen covering protests in new york right now, Massed Outside The Gates of Columbia University you talked to trump about Political Violence as well. And well see what happens here. But of course from the left, many would characterize this as politically driven violence. On the right. Of course, there was january 6, so you asked trump whether he was worried therell be Political Violence this november election month. He told, you know, but i know you followed up with him in your extensive conversations and he told you and let me quote from you, eric, if we dont win, you know, it depends. It always depends on the fairness of an election tell me more. Yeah. I mean, that really stood out to me in our first conversation at maralago, roughly two weeks ago, i asked whether he was worried about Political Violence and connection and with the november election, and he said no and i said, what do you expect anything . He said, i think were going to win. I think there wont be Political Violence. So when i had a chance to talk with them again on the phone two weeks later, i follow up in that followed up on that and said, mr. President , what if you dont win . And he said precisely what you just said and it stood out to me because he read phase the specter of potential Political Violence. If he doesnt win the election, which was alarming to many people, right . Certainly. And especially considering that his definition of what is a free election at least in the last election, is not the definition of what a free election is. So what ill struck you the most most over these conversations that you had and again, in 90 minutes, what else stood out to you, eric, you know, what stood out to me was the fact that trump is ever more assertive in confident now than hes ever been. He is in the process of embarking on a Strategic Plan to return to the white house and be able to seize more power than he had in the first term, right . He is trying to consolidate power around his position as president and remove many of the guardrails that prevented him from carrying out a lot of the things he wanted to do. In the first term. Hes got an a conservative army of influence, of advice reserves, and aides who are preparing the mechanics of carrying out his agenda. And he is preparing right now to go into office if he wins to hit the Ground Running in a way that he wasnt prepared to the last time and just as youre watching, talking, eric, everyone, youre looking on your screen at those surge unit police you hear students yelling from a distance. Why are you in riot gear . And those police with their advisors prepared to go into Columbia University as youre seeing this face off here . Eric, you, in your conversations with trump as were watching this again, unfold you asked him about something he said to sean hannity when he talked about on day one he says, trump says, youre not gonna be a dictator, are you . Hes talking about a conversation with someone and he tells this person no, no. Other than on day one what did he explain to you about that well, trump essentially said that he was joking that he was kidding around, that he was playing with the audience. Trump often is able to assume this role of almost stand comedian when hes in front of an audience, when hes at his rallies, its part of his relationship with his supporters. He entertained is them as well as speaks to them. But when i said well, sir, dont you realize that this kind of talk of dictatorship