Transcripts For CNNW Trump 20240703

Events at issue in this case i asked her what trump is going through right now, look, it just really sucks to be in court to be a defendant. It is just one of the stressful things you could possibly go through and of course trump being who he is, everything takes on an extraordinary nature. But for anyone to be in that seat, its one of the worst things you can go through and your entire life david, i think really importantly, we should note here for people who may say, why is this guy testifying and revealing all this information . He has an Immunity Agreement prevent exactly with the government. So hes been involved, if interestingly, going back to about approximately 2017 he has been involved in these investigations into whether this was criminal conduct, these Hush Money Payments. This was first something that was primarily investigated at the federal level or the manhattan district attorney, the state investigation took took a little bit of backseat as they often do when youre dealing with a two tracked investigation, but yeah, he had he had immunity when the Justice Department did its deal with ami Michael Cohen, of course did not. And he did plead guilty to several charges, including Campaign Finance violations and fill i mean, theyre asking right now about Text Messages and what he had access to on their server first, there also teeing up a text message that they are going to admit into evidence, and thats the new thing that were seeing today. Theyre really bringing in emails from Michael Cohen. Theres a thumb drive that they just introduced and now theyre theyre teeing up Text Messages. Well find out which ones theyre talking about. But i mean, i imagine the Text Messages of anyone who was involved at ami or the national so enquirer would be quite revealing potentially. All right. Weve talked about what we know versus what we dont know, what will be a surprise given how much reporting has come out on this and Text Messages, particularly detailing things that just havent been reported before, i think arent critical at this point, but also just having evidence introducing it, even the email from Michael Cohen are multiple emails from Michael Cohen, which warnings regulatory for the case. But you realize, oh wow got all of this stuff. They have a lot of information. Paul mentioned the nonprosecution agreement that they have with ami fact that david is cooperating witness, and i think thats something to or has immunity at something to remember. We saw at the very beginning, the david seemed to be flattering trump throughout the course of the opening part lets the trial. He has immunity here. He was called by the prosecution, and this could go down a path where it seems to be going right now particularly with the evidence that theyre attempting to admit but is problematic. Well, and hes wouldnt be Text Messages with trump. I mean, just started texting a few maybe a yearandahalf ago, i think and so this could be potentially Michael Cohen, steve bannon, these people that they were just saying were introduced to him. Right now. Were told that trump brought you saw trump rigueur that stack of papers with him when he went back into the corner . Courtroom, paula, at one point, our team so its so quiet in the room that you could only hear Trump Thumbing through that stack of papers is that normal behavior for a defendant at the Defense Table . So that thumb through your papers at some point, remember i said this is such an extraordinary difficult thing to do. Now, trumps legal team has objected. Theyve asked them to come to the bench. It appears that this objection is related to the Text Messages. So clearly something that theyre a little bit worried about coming in. I would again expect this is likely going to have to do with either ami and or michael palin. The judge held that he doesnt want to speak about objections in front of the jury. Okay. So they will go to sidebar, which trump has said he wants to participate in all the sidebar is theyll go with a jury, cant hear them to hash out this particular objection. Im curious to see if trump wants to get some steps in and join the sidebar here. What its about, or if he stays that the seat because i was they will many of us are skeptical that he really would participate at this level. He said he wanted to be at every little sidebar, a little meeting with the judge and lawyers. But most defendants dont do that. So let me see if he does. What would be the reason for objecting to the introduction of Text Messages . I mean, that seems like a pretty standard move for the prosecution or defence depends whats ent and what theyre saying. Right . So if were talking about Michael Cohen, talking about hush money deal going to be hard to keep that out, right . But if were talking about maybe Kellyanne Conway asking about something or someone whos not actually at the heart of this case, they may try to make you know, one of several objections, but we have no idea what the text message is or what has mentioned the support. So its hard to say, we may not here because theyre doing this sidebar, so i dont believe even our colleague in the courtroom can hear. Yeah. Jake, so you have the judge and trumps attorneys and prosecutors . Who are going to be speaking off to the side out of earshot of the jury to talk about whatever these texts messages are that are related to American Media inke, that clearly the prosecution wants to bring up. All right. Fascinating stuff. Kaitlan collins, thanks so much. Elie honig would tell us about these Text Messages and also the process by which the prosecution is trying to introduce them through through this one witness, david . Yes. So in order to put documents, texts in front of a jury, you have to have a witness on the stand who can say yes, that is what we say. They are those are texts that i sent and received. Those are emails that were asked me to somebody that was party to the tax. Exactly. Unless the other side, what we call stipulates meaning agrees. But sometimes you want to do that, you want to show the jury okay. This is the guy who who sent or received those texts and the other thing that you always want to do as a prosecutor especially with your more contentious witnesses. Watch for this one. Michael cohen testifies, but also now with is you want to support as much of their testimony as possible with written documents so you can say to the jury, you dont have to take david is word standing . Hello. You dont have to take Michael Cohens word standing low. Look, its right here. Its an a document, so the prosecutors right now, were trying to build and bolster their case laura coates right now, david were told is inside the courtroom. Hes at the Witness Stand, De Sipping Water from glass. Trump is going through papers while the lawyers sort out the objection here. Why . With the Defense Attorneys be objective . Well, first of all, lets take a step back. The judge is saying clearly that he does not want objections to be made in front of this jure, these speaking objections, he does not want this jury to be Hearing Anything besides the actual testimony issue and the lawyers and the judge are actually discussing an objection from trumps legal team. This is out of the earshot of the jury in this context. The reason why is because you want this jury focused on only the presentation of evidence or notetaking, not trying to get through the different rabbit holes. Its really important for the clarity and a streamlined process but not wanting to get these documents in threes and it talks about they dont want the cooperative aspect of it. They do not want anything thats not being said. They dont want to have the overwhelming number of receipts to say, listen, if you question the credibility of the speaking witness, if you want to figuratively next, naibe messenger, and you can turn to the actual documents they want to undermine the ability to do just that in these Text Messages are likely going to be between and Michael Cohen talking about these arrangements, these deals yeah it actually makes me think about the fact that you can speak to this because you were actually Donald Trumps attorney he doesnt communicate that way. He doesnt text. He doesnt email at least certainly hadnt up until this point and so he doesnt do that for the very reason that were talking about right now. I mean, the whole question is about paper trail and its about documents. We certainly have that with checks. But imagine if that included something other than checks and when he puts on social media imagine if what he said was actually involved in attacks. So trump attorney todd blanche, i grabbed the binder from the defendants table and susan, how to pronounce it susan got her tablet as a discussion about the objection continues, tim. Tim, why are they objecting . So i mean, i think that the reason theyre getting that binders probably because it has the contents of all the Text Messages so that they can go through whatever theyre about to introduce as to why this stuff should not be put before this jury. And a lot of this could be i mean, they certainly could have hearsay objections, but i think a lot of it is probably going to be more to relevance of whether this is getting too far afield from the actual false records and whether these are the type of Text Messages that would be the risk of unfair prejudice outweighs its probative value, but its minimal value to this case but it has a significant risk of prejudicing the jury to where theyre going to make an improper to. So in other words, its going to look sleazy, but its not against the law. And so the Defense Attorneys dont want that slays to get out there. Theyre also going to say its just hearsay. Its an outofcourt statement being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. So youre not allowed to bring out prior consistent statements unless theres an exception to that, theres hearsay is the thing that you mostly will object to in court. And so Text Messages between two people. Thats just pure hearsay, even though it not only corroborates the witnesses it also brings the jury back to where they were in 2015 and 2016, 2017, which is what theyre going to try to do throughout this trial. Theyre going to try to bring the jury back to that time. Period in that time frame and these were all done contemporaneous what you can bring it out though, if somehow the Defense Attorney cross examines the witness and tries to say that this is a recent fabrication thats one time that you can go back and say, no, its not. I have these old Text Messages. I can now show this price hi, are consistent statement, but until that point at this right now, if its being offered for the truth, if its being offered for some other reason, like the fact that they were just communicating or it was evidenced of the crime. If theres some other reason thats an exception to the hearsay rule, then you can bring it in, but thats why theyre objecting to this. Its just hearsay right now. And kasie hunt, who joins us now okay. So you obviously, you know, whats important to remember here is this is all disgusting and sleazy and horrific and exactly what we thought it was in 2015, 2016 when the Nationalists Choir was doing trumps bidding. But thats not a crime. None of that is a crime. The crime being alleged is falsification of Business Records to cover up the Hush Money Payment to Stormy Daniels, right . I guess thats my question. Is the non lawyer at the table and put it because politically speaking at jake, youre right we are all going back to that time in 2015 and 2016, we were first learning about this, this cast of characters is taking us back to that, to that time but if, if old records show that they wanted to do something, they wanted to do, x, but then the Business Records say why thats an i dont totally understand why thats not relevant. Are allowed. So an important question here is, what is the scope of the conspiracy if you have texts between three people in this case, or a conspiracy involving three people trump but look at this, the documents are being accepted into education, overturn sub trumps object. Perfect. And i think i can explain why. So lets say you have a conspiracy involving three people, trump cohen and right. There are texts between two of them in this case, cohen and but not donald trump. You can still introduce as a prosecutor that text between cohen and against donald trump, even if hes not on those texts, even if hes not sending or receiving those texts, if youre all part of the same threeperson conspiracy, and if those texts go to further that conspiracy, so were guessing a little bit, but but i think based on what i know, that judges said, Donald Trumps not on these texts, but theyre sent by two of his coconspirators and theyre furthering the conspiracy. And tim, you as somebody who used to work for donald trump represented donald trump thats squares, not the criminality of it, but thats squares with how you deal with donald trump. You might text somebody close to him, but not him. Hes never texted me. Never we already, doesnt text or email no. No, never. It was always like anything we had the email we would email to his assistant. The objection has been noted in overrule, judge merchan says merchan says noting that any embedded hearsay issues will be dealt with as they move through the documents. Okay. So they probably went through and found a few Text Messages were wondering of them, said, you know, somebody else told me x and so you know, tallies point, because these are texts between two alleged coconspirators, they would be admissible for that purpose, but to the extent that there are certain pieces within that that go outside that as they come up, hes going to potentially excise pieces of it. And yeah, i mean, what were going to see here in these Text Messages between Michael Cohen and David Dana Presumably will bolster what Michael Cohens going to say on the stand and what has said on the stand in terms of this agreement, which is such an important point, there doesnt seemed can be as much of a credibility issue with david as were going to see with Michael Cohen from the perspective of the defense and what the defense is going to try to do to Michael Cohen. And as i talked about that, we should say the prosecutors asking about story of dino sajudin. Sajudin oh, hes the door man. Yeah. And says that he learned from dylan howard about sajudin story and that he called cohens. So this is now these, these are the stories just forgive me. Trump shook his head, leaning back at the Defense Table as recalled, that store. Now quickly the story is which theres absolutely no evidence actually but its true at all . Its been actually disproven was whether a doorman and trumps building was going to go forward with a an allegation that trump fathered a child out of wedlock. Again, that story had been disproven, but that didnt preclude this from being discussed. And the catch and kill on this story certainly happened but what i was saying before was well, this is all the buildup clearly to preparing for the defense trumps defense, to say everything that Michael Cohen says is not true because he was proven to be a liar, so on and so forth. And all of the exchanges that Michael Cohen had, especially with somebody like day david whose credibility is not as much in question are critical to the prosecutor. Checker said, quote, i immediately called Michael Cohen and i described him exactly what i was told by dylan howard. Thats the National Enquirer enter and that has to do with this false story by the former doorman at Trump World Tower that donald trump had fathered a child outside his marriage, says cohen responded to the story, quote, absolutely not true but ill check it out. So Michael Cohen, david, is alerting Donald Trumps attorney of this guy shopping around and presumably false story. Michael cohen says its not true, but ill check it out. Tim, do you buy the argument that david buying this story and then burying it is a Campaign Contribution that should have been disclosed, not undo the supreme Courts Holding of Citizens United. It does get a little bit more on sanely when theyre actually paying a witness for their story and remember this is different from the Stormy Daniels. Theyre not paying them for an nda. Theyre paying them to get the exclusive rights to tell their story. And then theres just not publishing it. But why would they, but why would they do it . And then we already had david acknowledge that sometimes he would do this to benefit donald trump, right . If it didnt benefit the National Enquirer well, hold on one second. David says that day or the next. Michael cohen called him back, called david back and said he verified that the two names were on the payroll. Thats the name of the doorman and the name of the women. A woman with whom donald trump was accused, although falsely so of bothering child, he asked to check out the story cohen is asking to check out the story, which is interesting, tells cohen or the National Enquirer tells Michael Cohen and the story of Michael Cohen checks it out. It says these two people are employees of trumpworld tower. It gets back to them and then david says hell check out the store, but you say this is not necessarily a Campaign Country remember, Citizens United dealt with the case where somebody, a documentary film maker made a film attacking Hillary Clinton, trying to make her look bad right before the election and that was held to not be a inkind Campaign Contribution when Media Company does Something Like that expense, money, significant amount of money in that case, millions of dollars to produce something that could change peoples opinions of the election to help their preferred candidate that was constitutionally protected, free speech. So thats thats what its buying somebody silence. The same thing as free speech not free and its not speech. It hasnt, its an interesting question that should be tested. David says he called Michael Cohen because of the 2015 meeting he agreed to notify cone of anything he heard, quote, that was going to be negative to trump his family or his campaigns. So thats saying that the only reason he called conus because of this agreement that they had at this meeting in 2015. So its untested how it would apply to this particular circumstance. The Us Attorneys Office decided not to press it with ami but to the extent that this goes forward to a to a conviction, i can predict that the trump team would likely litigate this on appeal all the way up to the us Supreme Court. Sure. Because this involves a federal question that is something thats been decided by the Supreme Court. I see that is something that the Supreme Court could potentially take. Remember, though its not as mean the fact that they have not charged this conduct, keep in mind the reason were hearing a lot about this is because this notion of prior bad acts, theyre bringing up this just establish a pattern not to show that there was criminal activity for Karen Mcdougal or for this doorman, you can enter into an nda. The question here is whether they falsified records on these issues and whether trying to establish here to refer focus is that theyre trying to create the evidence that david was part of a catch and kill scheme where they would following that announcement to run for president , he took a greater interest in ensuring that whatever was running his Tabloid Publication would be favorable. Donald trump, it would kill whatever was not. Thats important for one part of this jigsaw puzzle. The next as part has to be that one catch and kill scheme number two, it was for the purpose of helping me election. Thats the other part of it. The third part though, has to be that there is a falsified record thats where the invoices come in the documents are seeing about. And remember, there was a moment where there was a testimony im going to my tablet here that blended up baby traveling up, there was a key takeaway here. Thats it. New verb, i love it one of the Key Takeaways here that he said he would describe mr. Trump as very knowledgeable and put it up put but im putting it up. Theyre not putting up with me. What app the staff people would put up there either put up or shut up. Im not going to shut up so i would just grab mr. Trump is very knowledgeable. He was very detailed, oriented here. Right . And he almost was a micromanager and look at all aspects of whatever the issue was. The issue here was one second, David Checker starts to say that they discussed having such a dean, the door man with the false story, take a Polygraph Test, but prosecutor quickly cuts him off what you were about to say. Dont say that dont say that starts to say that. Why . Why every juror is like the judge me the judge had previously ruled the polygraph would not come into evidence. Steinglass again, told not to discuss any results of a Polygraph Test that says dean toggle. So first of all, if those of you who pretend not to read the enquirer, one of the most interesting aspects of the enquirer is always been the idea of a Polygraph Test to substantiate those who are involved in this where Checkbook Journalism not admissible of law, missile part of law in this instance, hes trying to make sure they already had these pretrial motions where lawyers are saying here, what are the guardrails if you were to go beyond that, theres a problem. They know very well. This will likely result if there is a conviction thats an if, then an appeal. Well go through every part of that. Anyone violate the rules beforehand are trying to make sure that they know that the prosecution is trying to toe that particular line. But one of the reasons people would look to these publications was to say, well gosh, do i believe you the polygraph tesla literally did not know that. Oh, well, okay. Sure. Dana got it. I dont knew it. Im familiar with occasions, but the bottom line here is that hes trying to establish that there was some way to show as a part of the scheme but the prosecution has got to go to the next level in this witness might not give you everything that you need for prove every single test, but at least the Credibility Factor you now you have saying that howard new Zealand Howard the editorinchief of the enquirer negotiated to pay 30 granted by the story, and he called Michael Cohen, hey, were going to spend 30,000 to buy the story and the occasion. Of course, that theyre not going to run it, which remember, yesterday we learned in this first 20 minutes of his testimony that anything above 10,000 per story had to get the approval. A. David yes. Good. Yeah. Good. So people come back track of this, all this doormans story is the first of three parts of the catch and kill scheme that prosecutors are going to introduce. Theres paying off after the doorman, the 30,000 next up will be the paying of Karen Mcdougal to catch and kill her story 150,000. And then the third one will be the one thats charged in the indictment. The falsification relating to the nondisclosure pay of Stormy Daniels and didnt say earlier today, karen the National Enquirer typically didnt by stories just to suppress them. Yes, i believe so, yes. That is definitely the case. And i think that goes thats further evidence that this was an illegal conspiracy which and the reason we keep going back to that term is a Coconspirator Statement is an exception to the hearsay rule and thats why you hear this coming up over and over again in court because a lot of evidence the prosecution is trying to said at the time this could be a very big story. I believe its important that it should be removed from the market and was that that statement by was greeted with a statement from Michael Cohen, the boss would be very pleased. So again, all of these outofcourt statements that are being offered for the truth are an exception to the hearsay rule because they are Coconspirator Statements and some will say, well, but wait, hes not charged with conspiracy. But two things. Number one, you dont have to be charged with conspiracy to be able to fit into this Category Number and confirms this is the first time he paid to kill a story about donald trump. And number two, the other, the other thing is dont forget, in order to make this a felony, in addition to being a falsifying Business Records he had to have done it to either commit or conceal another crime. One of the other crimes that the prosecution is alleged is state election Law Violations and New York State election Law Violation is a conspiracy. Its a conspiracy to commit election law so thats why theyre hanging their hat on this and saying, judge, we should be allowed to bring up well, this hearsay in because of that allegation. So lacoste has found the quote in question you want to bring, you want to tackle it it out yet were tackling it, doubled this is the question the point is like, is this a standard Operation Procedure said if the story was true, this is about trump having this child outside his marriage according to the storm and not a true story currently, side of the story was true would probably be the biggest sale of the National Enquirer since the death of elvis presley, 1977, said if the story was verified, he would have published it after the election based on a conversation he had with Michael Cohen, presumably thinking that donald trump wasnt going to win the election because i cant see why they would do that. And of course, the great irony is that the highest selling tabloids include the elvis has not actually died so thats the thing is also, you know, they had a tabloid its not even secrets was very important to pay for it because sajudin, the doorman, would likely shop around the story to other outlets, so they had to get it, they had to get it by the way. I think that the National Enquirer actually had photographs of elvis dead in his coffin. I believe if memory serves from 1977, somebody snuck in with a camera and this wasnt in the era of camera phones, so i dont know how they did it exactly. Ill check it while youre doing your thing, but it was definitely a tabloid, definitely published photographs of elvis dead in his column well, theres been a lot of folklore about whats happening there as well. But to this point, and why did you catching and killing . They also have to include this idea of a nondisclosure. They dont want to have paid somebody for these stories to have not published just the National Enquirer. The whole point is that it can never see the light of day. But going back to this point, us by the weather i paid all cousin, bobby man, 18,000 for the death photo years old. And i remember that well done. Yeah. I havent by this. Well, so the one of the Key Takeaways here, if you look at this is he was asked by your packer earlier today, prior to the august 2015 meeting, i note of course it was june ive 2015 when donald trump came down that escalator infamously, that had you ever purchased a story to not print it about mr. Trump saying no, the jury right now is visit is viewing an agreement. Am i struck with dino sajudin to purchase the rights to the story, the documents dated november 15, 2015. So now were saying couple of months after that. Now, august meeting, where would take become the eyes and ears of Donald Trumps. Also the question, did that part help the National Enquirer at all . Thats a really important point here. He says, no, that didnt help. Now many might be wondering, well why on earth would there be a payment to dress tried to unilaterally . Health. Donald trump. Well, its not just the catchandkill. Its the continued relationship. If somebody is getting ready to be the president of the United States and they believe that they might be or might have a chance at doing so. Think about the fodder you have in the future. There is an every incentive for somebody whos publishing a magazine to have that access point. And so although it might appear to be unilaterally, oakley only up and donald trump after 2015, it would actually a nerve the benefit of ultimately of the enquirer and just because casey, i know youre really curious to know what dino sajudin looks like just because we talking about them so much the doorman. Heres a photograph of dino sajudin the jury right now with viewing this agreement between ami and dino sajudin, areas on the bottom righthand of your screen and just in case you were wondering, what do you what he looked like . I just wanted to make sure im sure audie here to here to deplete just say that its so interesting to kind of get this window into on the phone telling Michael Cohen, i want the story because its going to sell so many tabloids. Everyone who works around donald trump and has any sort of relationship where they are, as you note, laura trying to maintain that learns how to flatter him in their own specific way. I mean, the idea that a cover of a tabloid with this mans face on it is going to sell like elviss death photos is absurd, but a kind of a complement to drum. And we saw that at the very beginning of testimony yesterday and especially today, his trump flattering Muscle Memory okay. Just came back like that. Its its also been really interesting. Some of the most interesting notes i think coming in from our team is how is trump interacting with these witnesses, right . Like not making eye contact with david as walks in and then his sort of reactions to the things is saying it doesnt have it has a much different quality, right to it than the way that trump is interacting with Michael Cohen through the jury right now, looking at this agreement casing, the jurys looking at this agreement which presumably says that ami is buying the exclusive rights to the story that dino sajudin has presumably a false story worry about this woman who had this child that he said he claimed again, falsely was Donald Trumps child from outside his marriage. But ali i mean, one of the things thats interesting here is you have the National Enquirer operating as a vessel if not the Trump Campaign of trump you know, they are doing him this solid buying the story for 30,000 burying it and thats not something that journalists do two in order to get a story off out of the public eye. David, right now explaining the agreement to the jury. Okay. Theres a Crucial Detail that just came through and david is testimony a few minutes ago, david testified that if after the election, if he could have confirmed the doormans story, it ended up being on confirmable, but he said if he put a confirming he would have published it after the election. Its Crucial Point for prosecutors because it shows the whole point of buying these stories was to keep them away from the public before the election. So its a little nuance, but theres no other way to explain that. Why else would he be willing to put it up after the election if they could prove it . And you made this point yesterday to ally, i think it was a good one and that the timing of it is, hey, Karen Mcdougal, this was not an affair that was alleged to have occurred, at least from her. And then trump denies it in 2015 or 2016, it was more than a decade earlier when we animals as well. And so the idea of the why now is going to be lingering in its core with the prosecutors know what theyre doing, why now why have all all the different moments they could have brought these things that why now . Now theyll say, well thats when we heard about and thats when when we brought the case to as are brought the incense and Karen Mcdougal. But for the juries purpose, the idea to convince and persuade them that Beyond A Reasonable Doubt, that the y now was because there was an election and the response will be, as you said, laura, this is when Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal pounds, they hes running for president. Hes vulnerable at this point, and it is a fact we can, there will be argument at the trial. How to characterize that, but it is a fact that this all was initiated by the camps around mcdougal and daniels trumps team didnt go out and find them. It worked the other way. They their people came to trumps people, perhaps even and said, hey, we weve got this story. You may want to think about what you wanna do it. And by the way, can you talk to because the idea of pouncing and the one of the rare instances of having an objection during oral or during an Opening Statement, saying we hold the article and its up to the publisher whether theyre going to publish it and paying menn the full exclusive for it. And you have the choice to publish. Basically, were buying the exclusive rights to this article. We can do whatever we want with it. You cant shop it around anyone else. And i bet there were some moment in time when they said to the person who they were negotiating with, one day we might do maybe incentivize them to take this particular deal from the enquirer as opposed to going some place else and not doing the Checkbook Journalism becker said we discovered that it was absolutely 1,000 untrue you also recall cohen told him trump would be willing to take a dna test to disprove the story. Well, you took a dna test. Turns out hes 100 that can that was lizzo. I got. Thank you thats the rest of us dont have concern turns but on this point, karen, one of the few objection that were raised was about trying to intimate that Swimming Else was pouncing or somehow committing extortion in her comments, they attack that very notion. The judge did not like the intimation in an opening yeah. I mean, thats the thing you really have to use your objections gingerly because you dont object every time you can object because that could just upset the jury, upset the judge, and youre seeing the jury, david turn his head to face the jury as he told them they discovered the story was 1,000 untrue. Does that does that but both bolster a packers credibility with the with the jury. Do you think hes hes prosecutors asking why they were paying for a story that was not true. Yeah i mean, absolutely. I think it does. I think look, i think good, bad, ugly. The prosecution is just telling the story of the world that they lived in and bringing the yurii into this world. The whole thing, all of it, and the prosecution has to embrace this case. They have to embrace david and Michael Cohen and hope hicks and Stormy Daniels because this is the case, tucker, dr. Speaker says, if the article quote, got out to another publication or another media outlet it wouldnt be it would have been very embarrassing to the campaign. This isnt direct response to the prosecutor saying if its not a true store, youre saying its not a true story, thousand percent in tree, you said donald trump offering to take a dna test to prove that its not true. Why would you pay for it . He says because we dont want another publication or another media outlet to publish it. And he says specifically why . Because quote, it would have ive been very embarrassing to the campaign, not to donald trump not to Donald Trumps family, but to the Trump Campaign for president kaitlan yeah jake, another update is david testifying about this agreement that even though the story was not true, it still has the but what the argument was that this guy was making, which is that donald trump as he was alleging and trying to shop around that he fathered an illegitimate child. I mean, thats obviously something thats going to be able to stick with the jury all right. But david said that they determined it was false after they hired a private investigator to go where this kid apparently supposedly was where he lived to assess out this story. It thanks to the efforts that david took and what he was doing to try to protect donald trump. And i think really what is key here, and if people are watching, im wondering why are they talking about a story that wasnt true about donald trump . Its also the timeline here that david had never paid for a story about donald trump until it was this close to the campaign. Yeah. And the timeline were learning about on these agreements, the agreement contains a cause it would require the door menn to pay ami 1 million if he breached the agreement in which he was paid for the rights to the story. And this had a very long timeline. So this is interesting because its not just to prevent trump from embarrassment. Its also to prevent the campaign from being embarrassed. And that is significant because thats of course, at the heart of the criminal allegations here. And the 1 million in debt, he was paid 30,000 for this fake story. But if he breached told you about he would never be able to repay the 1 was essentially their understand, which is why they want to hang it over his head. I think your point is a really good one is, keep going through the updates, explaining when it comes to that clause. It was basically a lever over him, right . Not to go elsewhere with that story. This is the timeline its also the mechanics, right . So the first time theyve ever done it, this is how it actually worked 30,000. Michael cohen talking to david about how this actual process of work what the lever would be over the top that 1 million as well. So youre getting the structure of this de, weve been talking about once it got actually going to look like when they put all this together based on the evidence the prosecutors and the witness that they have, youre seeing this is the structure at a very specific timeline tied to the campaign plus, if i pointed this out, i was fascinated by this in agreement that if the story was true National Enquirer could publish it after the election so the campaign, the politics, and the structure of everything coming before everything was stormy. Daniels is actually transmitted fired. Its all laid out. Hello, we know the next few stories are about Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Make Dan is Stormy Daniels, which donald trump has denied. I shouldnt have, but these women have talked about publicly to Anderson Cooper and Stormy Daniels, and multiple places. Why do you think the prosecution is starting with the doormans story first . If they dont believe that it was true, i think you want to first of all, get it out of the way because its not true. And also, he was paid a lot less money. Now here, packer said he determined jointly with cohen to amend this agreement to extend the time frame in perpetuity, and thats what im talking about. Either this door man, he was under this agreement mean not just for a few months, not just for a few years, but you in perpetuity, this is quite an extraordinary thing to do. And again, hes testifying. Can did it not just to save trump from embarrassment, but also so the campaign will and it says that trumps legal team objected to the next exhibit. Exhibit they are now back at the bench. They just had this happen a few moments ago where they objected to a text message just being shown. The judge here overruled that and said no, were going to continue to have this allowed to be shown to the jury. But also what this agreement shows that they are we pulling out right now . The one about the door Menn Shopping on the story, it shows how involved Michael Cohen was. He was basically writing this agreement along with david and National Enquirer or two at the same time, he was serving as david is point person to the former president , wasnt involved in the campaign. But when testified earlier that when Michael Cohen said he assumed he was talking about him and the former president because he wasnt actually on the Campaign Team as well. And he was the kind of do it, do everything for donald trump at that time. And he was intimately involved. And i think if anything, over the course of the last several hours into some degree yesterday as well cohen is intimately involved in things that the president its intimately aware of the micromanager keeping an eye on everything. He knows exactly what Michael Cohens doing, at least thats what the prosecution stranded display it when paula with trump leaning back in his chair as they are the prosecutors and his attorneys are speaking with the judge or what theyre objecting to. Right now. We dont know what, but we may find out soon if the judge overrules them. Its fascinating to tell trumps been physically his Body Movement in his Body Language as hes been listening to david tell these stories, he was clearly bothered by the doormans story. He was shaking his head according to our reporters who were inside the room. Is that story was being told and the efforts to suppress that story. And also david saying, you know, what have been one of the most widely sold National Enquirer or additions . Had it been true and been on the cover . Yeah. Exactly. And he knows whats coming. He knows what is likely going to calm. Its unclear if theyll get to it today. The only have about 20 minutes lab is the Karen Mcdougal story thats up next. So thats not going to be a comfortable phase for him in this. Can i ask you to paula, just given your legal background, when you see an agreement like this, which is what the jury has been shown, its this in my agreement that was just entered into evidence its an exhibit at the hair. You can see it has right there at the top and pretty large letters about Trump Fathering an illegitimate child, even if that story is not true, how does that stick with the jury . Do you think i mean, i think the average person would say these are some real rich people problems, right . You have your friends the biggest tabloid paying this kind of money to your doorman, of our story about an child out of wedlock. We have another update. The judge said the exhibit trump teams objected to to will be displayed, but there will be a redaction. Some interesting to see what exactly that is, but yeah, this agreement im sure the jury is probably interested this is not as apples for apples as Karen Mcdougals Hush Money Payment will be. But again, that also is a little bit different because its a catch and kill a little bit different than what happened with Stormy Daniels. So theyre theyre building to it. It takes it takes a long time to tell the story which happened over several years and look at the signatures there that you can see on the screen. Thats actually so something that really doesnt leave a jurors mind, i imagine, is looking at the signatures on this paperwork. We know that theres a lot of other paperwork to come. Whether its related to Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels, that their own agreements and Stormy Daniels, one that had Pseudonyms Peterson and david denison. I believe, who were the names right now prosecutors, what they were just stepping way to talk about with attorneys, they are showing an email about the paperwork to get a wire pavement to sajudin that is the dormant who is shopping this story around . That obviously is also incredibly powerful evidence it is. And remember this has sex and politics and play what play mates. But at the core, this is a paper work hey so documents like this are significant. And i think theyre going to want to show this wire payment because theyre going to set up later on why they believe that trump falsified those records, why . Hi, he had to falsify the repayment to Michael Cohen. So all of this again, this is building to the core of their cases, to the allegation that he falsified these Business Records to cover up the Hush Money Payment. Now, prosecutors are showing an email about the paperwork for a wire payment to the doorman. Now, this id be really curious to see what it says who. Is, on it because this would also speak to how many people were in the loop about this, this Hush Money Payment. I mean, why would the trump team object to paperwork . Let this big show thats why i want to know. I want to know whats on it because we can only see this updates right now. But i want to know who else is on this and what else does it does it show it must be something that they believe is not favorable to their client yeah i have my mic. Im blissfully not a lawyer, but im assuming either names or or some type of Contact Information would be the biggest. Yes. I want to jump off pauls point because i think his welcome this all play out. Why this is not the same as what hes actually been charged over. But why its important. And thats laying out that this has happened several times. This is the structure through which it has happened. These are the people that have driven it. This is why these people drove it. Whats different cells . They had a process, they have a way that this all worked it by the time it got to the Stormy Daniels case, it has become so what cut and dry . This is how we do this. This is how it operates, how it works. And thats the crux of why what was different . Front about that. And why trumps team saying that these are legal fees. This is just the normal course of business. We are paying a retainer seems to diverge when you lay out this entire process. Also that comment from david saying that even and if that story had been true, they would have held it until after the election is also really notable because it all goes back to what Stormy Daniels and her attorney attorney believed at the time when they were striking their agreement Michael Cody Get paid. Is they believe he was stringing them along, owe the banks are closed because a jewish holidays. Oh, Donald Trumps out on the Campaign Trail. They thought they were being strung along until after the Election Pass and then theyd never get paid . Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Its just completely genomic concern given were dealing with the fact that there is this cutoff, right . Theres going to be an election and that was the deadline. What official deadline . But this is this is all very significant in terms of laying the groundwork that trump was in the loop on what was going on. Now, Michael Cohen may have been the gobetween, eventually between and trump, but theyre trying to establish that trump was well aware of the fact that these stories were being caught. And then killed. So thats a he part of trying to prove this case, because trumps team is going to argue that trump wasnt involved in paperwork, even if he was signing checks, he wasnt involved in the details. We already have on this stan testifying to the contrary that he was a micromanager. Also, it is the definition of catch and kill. I mean, thats not a familiar maneuver for i think a lot of people, but it is the essence sense of what they were doing it the National Enquirer, but also what they were doing with donald trump. The fact that they would pay 30 grand for this story. But if the dorman did go forward with it to someone else try to get them to publish it, that he would have to then pay 1 million. They basically how to a toe cold and believed that there was nothing you could do fill and i should note that email that they are now showing in court right now references a trump non published story, which presumably would be this story that theyre speaking about. I would four others, but i guess, yeah, this is very helpful about cameras in the courtroom, but we have the next best thing we have are wonderful reporters are giving us yeah, the details that we can glean from this, but this one is just not clear what this exhibit is or why the trump team objective, but it is its revealing too jury, the c part of this, the non published stories you just showed the headlines about ted cruz and ben carson and Marco Rubio Hillary clinton, the ones that were published were on the headlines. These are the ones that never made it out. There has been reports about the vaults that they had at the National Enquirer offices. You heard david talking about how he didnt want this agreement and word of this agreement that he had with Michael Cohen, which he says inspired him to buy the doormans story, to get out to even, even other people his staff at the National Enquirer, to the point youre making the fact that they had a relationship that had gone decades as they recounted earlier today. And the testimony on it the first time he kinda moved forward on a catchandkill process with the former president was during the campaign in this period of time, after theyve sat down in august of 25th teen saying, ill be your eyes and ears a flag give anything. Its in the market. Ill make sure that your people are aware and ill make sure i do my best to write good stories about you. Write bad stories about your opponents. If theres anything problematic, i will try and catch it and kill it. He is delivering on that promise on something that hed never done before. In the decades of their relationship prior to 2015 and sets up the precedent that hes going to repeat several times in the future its amazing. You really dont have any connection or paperwork connecting trunk to any of this thats something hes been so skilled at his whole career, right . No Text Messages, no paper trails. Even when he gives its an order, its an indirect order, sort of its been compared to mob speak. That is how it, despite many criminal investigations, this is the first time he has faced criminal trial. It is remarkable to me that at the heart of this is falsifying Business Records, that this is actually based on what they purport to be a paper trail. Paula wiedemann, we hear a lot from the district Attorneys Office here where they i always say when we call this the criminal hush money probe, they say no, no, its the election fraud. The Election Interference story. But to what prosecutors are showing here, they are repeatedly tying this back to the election, saying this is the first time the National Enquirer ever paid for a story related to donald trump before it was just going back and and now theyre tying this all back. To the election to drive home that point. And you can see here these were the other headlines that came out from the enquirer, the one about ted cruz saying he was shamed by a porn star one of ben carson said he loved a sponge. Any patients brain, five secret, mr. Says all these things that even ten chrissy to come out in the Campaign Trail and deny this. He admitted that they put out stories about marco rubio is he was searching in the polls and doing well. They made very clearly the tactic here. What they were doing. Yeah, and they store is of course about a Porn Star Multiple mr. Says, i mean, the irony, if not lost on anyone and the reason right there, making up stories, ill ted cruz while hiding potentially true stories about donald trump exactly. Now were learning the paragraph says he told cohen the story again about the door man had shared about the child out of wedlock, wasnt true, and that he wanted to release the doormen from the agreement. Now, look interesting to see what cohen then said to in response. But this is also why has immunity. He does come across even if theres a little bit of an ick factor does come across quite credibly cohen asked him to wait to release the doorman from the agreement until after the wait for it election. Thats the keyword. This is why this is so critical for the prosecution, laying the groundwork that all of this was done to help trump win in 2016. And the reason this case is being charged as a felony because they argued is documents or falsified in violation of federal election laws. I mean, Michael Cohen is effectively an arm of the National Enquirer, is what theyre laying out. And the National Enquirer is an arm of the Trump Campaign. Thats what it does appear. They are not only trying to help trump, theyre trying to hurt his adversaries and there is this clear story that prosecutors or laying out that everything theyre doing here, its not just because Donald Trumps a friend, its all about the election. I think im at the point now where i want to start creating a tally of how many times Michael Cohen tells david, wait until after the election, wait until after the election. This story is true. You can publish it after the election if you want to release him from the agreement. Okay. We can talk about that, but until after the election of vested interest in the electric two, almost as if he did end up getting released from this agreement. I mean, thats why people know about what happened here. Is that he was ultimately released. You once trump pat. This worked basically. Yeah, absolutely. It served its intended purpose. The story didnt get out and travel was elected president of the United States. And i think the next name that were going to hear in the next few minutes. Will be that of Karen Mcdougal. Well, thats impressive. Im so glad you said paulo, because youre tightening his grip because the prosecutor just ask david, quote, do you know somebody named Karen Mcdougal obviously that is going to be the second story here. And this one is going ally fcinating. Because they just laid out the mechanics of how these agreements worked and how for the first time they bought a story. We do now know Karen Mcdougal, who store. They also bought and youre saying yes, i do. As they are now getting into this story this is incredibly significant fill in this moment just given Karen Mcdougal story, was bad, david was worried when they bought that story, that they were violating Campaign Finance rules . Yes. Actually did research to make sure that they werent are trying to make sure that they were on the right right side of the wall, which i imagine youre probably going to be hearing about that process because corporations cant spend 100 and over 100,000 from them as to what they can actually spend on that. And i think that there are so many elements of the Karen Mcdougal piece of this that are going to if you thought the agreement on the fake love child of the fraudulent luck trial that ended up not being true . Yes, thats set up the structure. Yes. Instead of a precedent that they could work off of, this in terms of laying the groundwork for what were going to hear on the Stormy Daniels front is going to be both detailed. I think the expectation is quite embarrassing to the former president based on everything that hes been through. In this process, were also getting the updated that trump is looking at packer as hes testifying about Karen Mcdougal as weve been paying attention to how the president and has operated throughout the course of this trial. The one real kind of notable movement that we saw from the president were shaking his head no, to the story of the doorman and the child was not actually true. Now watching the even as vice about Karen Mcdougal, and i should do. I said that corporations can pay that money. They cant they cant donate that much to a campaign thats why he was researching is a Campaign Finance violations. And obviously, paula, this is going to be really sensitive moment in this trial personal, this will be for donald trump, Karen Mcdougal is one of the most personal parts of this because she alleged not only that they had an affair, she said but they had a relationship. And this was something that when i know from covering the white house and covering melania trump, that was deeply upsetting for the first former first lady, melania trump. And it created the rift in the relationship between her and donald trump Everyone Talks about Stormy Daniels and yes, thats certainly was there as well. But Karen Mcdougal, i we were told at the time, adjective melania trump, more so actually than Stormy Daniels ad. And you can understand that because the Stormy Daniels relationship and shes just publicly in a new documentary, it appear to be quite by transactional. There were some sexual encounters, but she kept that the relationship talking to him because she wanted to be on the apprentice and once its clear that wasnt going to happen, she sort of dropped him Karen Mcdougal, as she tells the story. It was in her from her viewpoint, It Relationship that went on for some time traveling together. It was much more of an intimate relationship. Again, according to her account of events, so its complete understanding why that would be frustrating and annoying to millennia and something that trump would not not want out the public. Yeah. And david says that howard, who Rose A Reminder was the Editor In Chief of the National Enquirer, called him in june 20 he 16 and notable month and year obviously, about a Playboy Model who is trying to sell a story about a relationship that she had with donald trump for a year as i noted, it was a longer relationship, not just simply a onetime affair. Jake, obviously this is a critical moment here in this because this is one of the key stories that they can do. Zoom in on that david has an immense amount of knowledge about. I mean, they sent emissaries to go and meet directly with Karen Mcdougal about this story, right . So this is a catch and kill story that there seems to be more grounds to believe it to be true then the doormans story, the prosecutor just ask David Whether dylan howard, the editor of the National Enquirer, believed the relationship with Karen Mcdougal between donald trump and Karen Mcdougal to the former 1998 playboy playmate of the year, whether that had a sexual component . Yes. He thought that says but he didnt know at that time this is not a subject that donald trump wants to be discussing this is because with theres a lot of contemporaneous evidence that this actually happened. Kasie hunt says cohens Immediate Reaction to hearing about mcdougal story was its untrue, absolutely not true, which seems to be at that point Michael Cohens were gonna action do any story that anybody asked about that might not be flattering about donald trump, but Karen Mcdougal wrote an entire memoir about this that ronan farrow from the new york, right, is handson, says, he told cohen this is a little different and suggested they vet the story. Cohen agreed it was a good idea to vet the story and as this all comes out, the story is, according to Karen Mcdougal and according to the Wall Street Journal, which broke the story of this relationship right before the collection of 2016 is that they met in 2006, right after the Stormy Daniels Encounter Packer says he asked dylan howard, the editor of the National Enquirer, to go to california to interview mcdougal. Now remember mcdougal is supposedly shopping around this story and the, around this time says he was speaking to cohen, Michael Cohen trumps lawyer. Did not have an official role on the campaign. Probably a couple of times a week because now were in the thick of it. Its 2016. Its the president ial election. The story ultimately does come out in november, about four days before the election in and then ronan farrow gets his hand on the memoir that Karen Mcdougal wrote about this alleged relationship. And he writes a big story, i think in 2018 for the new yorker, apparently they saw each other from 2006 to 2007 when the mcdougal story popped up . David and cohen, Michael Cohen, were speaking nearly every day, sometimes a couple of times per day, according to Karen Mcdougal, they saw each other from june 2006 to april 2007, they broke up because donald trump, according to Karen Mcdougal, made disparaging comments about her mother who disapproved of the relationship. Karen mcdougal, some other learned donald trump said Something Like, oh that old hag. And then Karen Mcdougal reminded donald trump that they were about the same age the mother and donald trump and also because Karen Mcdougal didnt like something that donald trump said about a friend of hers who was dating a black guy. And he said, its just reducing or is this all in your memory . I just read it on then new yorker story, david. David says, Michael Cohen told him they shouldnt Talk On A Landline and Michael Cohen suggested they switch. So they switched to the signal app. So that they couldnt be spied upon. Says he did not know what signal was remember this is 2016. I was going to say thats impressive, but he agreed to use it every time i used it, it dropped off after 30 seconds packer said, i have found it more reliable to be completely signal. But this was eight years ago, so maybe it wasnt as good for david now right now, todd, blanche, and donald trump, or when spring as david is testifying about using signal to speak with cohen, who knows what theyre saying, but donald trump has been whispering to his attorney throughout this entire Ordeal Writing notes to his attorney. What we expect to happen in any case, lets signal what signal . Signal is a crypt. What does it . No, i know what signal is maybe trump is asking what saying, oh, no, im sure he doesnt checks checker says Michael Cohen explained to him that with signal theres no paper trail, no one that can listen to them quote, i still to this day dont know if thats true or not. Her says thats a good point. I i think it is actually generally true. And if youre going to have confidence, i think its generally true, although i am aware of situations where signals have been roped into lawsuits which you guys might know more about or criminal trials where they have been. I should probably keep what i do know about this not involved me, but its not like i dont think anything is foolproof. It is more foolproof. And standing a standard text message. Well, it is if Michael Cohen telling david, i want to talk to you on the way that on a line where nobody can hear us and there will be no record of us ever having spoken. Thats the point is interesting because its Michael Cohen saying it to david. And he did not say that when they were talking about the untrue story, being shocked drone buy the doorman cases, right . Exactly. And i think that its clear based on all of those things that you just went through that there is some truth to what happened with Karen Mcdougal, that this is telling us that they saw that they understood that there was Something Real going on here, that they didnt i want to dig into and jake, you also mentioned that Michael Cohen wasnt working for the campaign, but i think any of us who covered that campaign, as i did knew that just like the editor of the National Enquirer, if you wanted to get to donald trump, you want to know what trump was thinking about. You wanted to talk on the phone with donald trump. You called Michael Cohen and right now is describing the phone call here. We had with trump himself about Karen Mcdougal story after dylan howard had heard Eutectic Cohen and you get to try backer says it was his understanding that Karen Mcdougal didnt not want to have her story published so he suggested david suggested that donald trump by Karen Mcdougals story, which is an interesting little wrinkle in this because that would be legal. Theyll go back in time for seconds. Yes. Just one quick point. Remember you actually there was an objection raised during the initial testimony about david seeming to suggest that dylan howard was not available to testify. Apparently, there is some issue with him not being in the particular jurisdiction and beyond and there is something about that we were talking about what statements can come in from daniel hower. Now you have ascribing a phone call that he had with Trump About Mcdougal Story app and dylan howard interviewed are now the more you referenced dylan howard. And if hes not available, there could pose a threat in terms of the ability to actually bring in testimony on this very point, if hes not able to be crossexamined, if hes not present to actually speak before this jury . We should note that donald trump, for what its worth denies having this relationship with Karen Mcdougal, david says it was his understanding the Karen Mcdougal did not want to have her story published. He suggested that trump, by the story, you might remember, by the way, in march 2018 after the new yorker profiled Karen Mcdougal, the end ronan farrow in the new yorker detailed this alleged relationship Anderson Cooper had an extensive Conversation Interview with Karen Mcdougal. David says he received a phone call from trump which is unusual, dana, because throughout all of this, donald trump has not been directly involved. Thats exactly right now. Were getting down to what the actual substance is. Hopefully we will see in here what exactly is that trump allegedly according to said to him about this mcdougal story . Yeah. Qarrah told Karen Mcdougal told anderson back in march 2018 that after they had been intimate, he tried to pay her, right . Donald trump and she said thats not me. Im not that kind of girl. He said, oh, youre really special again, my question for the legal side of the table is any laws broken here . I mean, this is cd. No, you didnt based on bagheri so forgive me. Check are now saying trump quote said, anytime you do anything like this, it always get out so paying to catch and kill Karen Mcdougal story is not illegal when it becomes arguably allegedly illegal is when they pay Stormy Daniels. Thats gonna be the next step. And then tried to cover up those pits, the cover up, its the cuff as always its always its always the cover of this testimony here is really important differ from what weve seen before because now david is saying this is a conversation i had directly with don and david packer says he told trump, i still believe that we should take the story off the market. Trump told him hed think about it and have cohen call back and remember before that said trumps said, anytime you do anything like this, it always gets out, which is at least i dont know if thats hearsay, but thats an admission of guilt, at least by donald trump to david. According to david, important here, say point, its never hearsay if its coming out of the defendants mouth. Okay. So anything donald trump says. So according to david, donald trump admitted that he had this relationship anytime you do anything like this, it always comes out and says, we need to get mcdougal attacked between david pecker and donald trump. Pecker says Michael Cohen kept on calling me to ask about dylan howard, the editor of the National Enquirers interview with Karen Mcdougal and david pecker says that he told Michael Cohen relax. Ill let you know when i hear back from Dylan Howard Del dylan howard flew out to california interview Karen Mcdougal every time Michael Cohen calls according to david pecker, he seems more anxious as if hes under pressure, which i would imagine he would be because the boss would be saying what have you heard, what have you heard and michael was very agitated. David pecker said, it looked like he was getting a lot of pressure to get the answer, like right away i think its really significant that pecker said too, that hes saying that michael that he spoke to trump directly and trump said talk to Michael Cohen about thats an interesting point thats a really, i think interesting point thats out here because when Michael Cohen testifies and says, i, this was my job, i was the fixer. I think that thats an important point that they just brought out through. And as we hit 2 00 p. M. East coast time questioning is finished for the day the jury is getting instructions from the judge before being lent out, but this is this is really been an interesting line of questioning because we have Michael Cohen establish as the person for david pecker to talk to. And this last significant chunk of information about the Karen Mcdougal alleged affair that in that in this according to david packer, michael collins, nonoperating as some rogue operator, right . He is designated by donald trump michael is my guy on this needs to run point and just think about the timing of this. Youre building a case as a prosecutor, you know that theres no Court Tomorrow on wednesday, where do you want to lead this or youre coming back on thursday, you leave it at this moment in time. Michael was very agitated. It looked like he was getting a lot of pressure to get the answer, like right away, the judge left the bathroom now, ending the testimony there. So now, whats the jury thinking of the next day and a half . A hold on a second. We know that this is the point person delegated and designated by donald trump. Theres pressure about this particular story. David pecker saying this one feels different, having Dylan Howard Go Out to california to meet with her, he recommends that donald trump get this story out. Of the market. We know already from the dorman case and beyond getting off the market means getting you a payment, having some sort of an nda. You cant put it anywhere else you put a lever above you about 1 million. If you go some place else all being established to build the momentum and leave it for the jury to say, okay, now, hold on over the next day to have im thinking about it. This sounds like donald trump petro something. Ive got a point person, hes coming out right now. Lets Start Talking to the audience. And of course, what he will say is his own version of whats happened in the courtroom because we know theres no cameras there, but you can believe hes going to talk a great deal about how he feels about all of this is totally in concentration jenny, even are those to be put in as an example, these are particles that were over the last day and i have a very good article ha, though, cases a sham it should be tried, it shouldnt have been submitted and, i dont even know if youll add to put a bag. We have a gag order which to me is totally unconstitutional. Im not allowed to talk with people who have to talk about me so they can talk about me. I can say whatever they want. They can live but im not allowed to say that is that the sit back and look at my conflicted, judge. Its i dont think anybody whos it for since id love to talk to you people, id love to see your group, david. So my nine, but im restricted because they have a gag and im going to choose anybody is ever seen anything like this before. They might read every one of these, your incomplete week, someone and ill look at Headlines Wrongdoing headlines at the kingstons a sham but i can read the whole thing. Ive been reading. This is like union can now so i put a knock somebodys name is mentioned, so were deepen the article in violation of the gag order i think its a disgrace. Its totally unconstitutional. I dont believe its centered not to this extent ever happened before. Im not allowed to defend myself and yet other people, say whatever they want about me having to the schools of the closer thats biden small. And by the way, this trial is all this is all bidenrun just in case anybody has any questions and then keeping me in a court for its freezing by the way the in input from all day long well, hes got good bedding. Thats probably an advantage as he kicked campaign. Nobody nobody knows what hes doing. They can print two sentences. Again but hes out campaigning hes campaigning and im here and im sitting here give me sitting up a straight is a channel because you know, its a very unfair situation. So were locked up, but a good but this guy sat there, campaigning, if you put it in pain every time he opens his mouth, he gets himself into trouble. So thats historic unconstitutional gag order by highly conflict that should recuse himself very simple on the schools should have never happened. Whats going on in this country now should have never happened of course, the ukraine war would have never happened. The Israeli Attack would have never happened inflation, weve never happened. We have the worst president in his suit and hes the one that has this and all these different lawsuit. Thank you and you are hearing from donald trump there. He just emerged from the courtroom after listening to david pecker, the tabloid gang of the National Enquirer, or testify in length about efforts that they took to suppress negative stories about donald trump as he was running for the white house, trump came out there and notice he was speaking to the camera, speaking to the media. He says that his gag war that is in place violates him from doing that and from defending himself. It doesnt it does prevent him, though, from going after witnesses in this case including Michael Cohen and people like david pecker and others who are expected to take that stand. He was armed with a stack of papers. He said that they are positive articles that he wanted to enter into the record and daniel dale is here with us, was listening to all of that statements and its resonant factchecker and daniel dale, aside from what trump is trying to enter into the evidence, its not clear that his attorneys wanted to enter that into the evidence can you just walk us through what he said about the gag order here and whats true and whats not true yeah. Katelyn, he perpetually makes the gag order sound like gags him more than it actually does. So i dont know what was in those specific articles, but he said he had an article saying this case is a sham. It shouldnt have been brought and hes not sure if he could even say that. Well, he can say hey, that that is clearly not prohibited by the gag order. I have the text of the gag order in front of me. What it does kaitlan is bar him from three specific kinds of speech. Number one, is speaking publicly or directing others to speak publicly about known are reasonably foreseeable witnesses in the case specifically about their potential participation in the case. Number two is speaking publicly, directing others to speak publicly about prosecutors other than da bragg Staff Members and Braggs Office and the court and the Family Members of prosecutors, staff, members of the court, and it qualifies that if those statements are made with the intent to material interfere with the case. And then number three, he is barred from speaking publicly about or directing others to speak publicly about jurors or prospective jurors. So if you just want us to say this case is a sham, as he has pretty much every time hes appeared before those cameras, hes perfectly allowed to. Hes not barred. And ill just add kaitlan. Ive heard you fact check this others on our team. Fact check this. He said this case is all biden. There is zero precisely zero evidence that President Biden had anything to do with brig singing orchestrating, running this case. So he says that pretty much every time its completely out of thin air as lanny davies, who was Michael Cohens attorney and is now his Legal Advisor was just pointing out to me last night, notice prosecutors who worked for the trump Justice Department when bill barbara City Attorney general that were the ones were asking questions about Michael Cohen and these payments where they went, daniel dale great to have you. Thank you for Fact Checking that trumps statement for us, my panel is back here with me and paula advil, obviously, trumps coming out and he cant talk about david pecker individually and go after what he just listened to for several hours, him on the Witness Stand and clearly so thats bothering him. Yeah. I was surprised that he started with the gag order. Clear that hearing did not go well for his attorneys earlier today, but he repeated some of the arguments that they either made in court or had hoped to make before went off the rails arguing that this is unconstitutional defendants are routinely subject to gag orders if it is necessary, but trumps argument is that causes a candidate for the presidency that anything he says are most of the things he says are political speech and enjoy a heightened protection. Now this is an argument he does seem have used creatively. In other criminal cases and have just not been successful. I dont think thats an argument thats its gonna be carried the day, but that is the point that hes making their he believes that a gag order on a president ial candidate is unconstitutional, but this is unprecedented to have a candidate for the white house as a criminal defendant. Weve never been here before, also, once again, taking aim at the judge suggesting that he is conflicted because his daughter works for a company that does fundraising four for democrats. Now the daughter is covered by the gag order. The judge is not i mean, is there any greater irony than complaining about a gag order and saying it restricts you from speaking while youre speaking to cameras and media whos in the hallway, you know, hes pushed the bounds on great ironies over the course of the last several years eight or nine years. But this is definitely high up there say question also the idea of for somebody who wasnt campaigning a lot heading into this trial, maybe once once a week, once every couple of weeks, making very clear that he would have been campaigning on a very regular basis, that he not had to be involved in this trial even though he voluntarily had gotten on to courthouses repeatedly over the course of the last several months and made that a central part of his campaign as well. And theres no indication that either from a financial perspective or from a political perspective, they had grand plans to be traveling a lot it is very clear hes cold. He has made that point several times. Five reporters to be fair in the room . Yes, that is very clear. But i also think that what that statement underscores is that this is a complicated moment where he is not in control as i think you guys have talked about repeatedly, both on the Political Sayyed and the legal side and over of course, of a day that can be pretty frustrating. I want to bring in jeff for psi as well, who is joining us. Heres a former federal prosecutor, was one of the lawyers who tried former democratic Vice President ial nominee john edwards for Campaign Finance violations. A lot of similarities and some differences here. And i just wonder as you were listening to those, that line of questioning think that the prosecution had for david pecker of this tabloid king, as he was saying that they were actively trying to help the Trump Campaign by suppressing negative stories, publishing favorable ones, and paying four once that even if they werent true, to make sure they didnt get out, what stood out to you in that testimony . Today well, its great to be with you this afternoon. I think the word of this trial is going to be corroboration what you see in the testimony from mr. Pecker, and theres not a coincidence that hes also the first witness. Is that what the prosecutors are trying to build brick by little brick ultimately building hopefully for themselves, a a wall for this prosecution is this idea that this does not rise and fall on cohen. If thats the case, the prosecution is going to have a problem very intentionally. You see the prosecution calling a different witness in this case, mr. Pecker, who serves as that introductory narrator to lay the framework for this story that then later is corroborated by Michael Cohen. And why are they doing this . Because they know fundamental the Biggest Issue theyre going to have and convincing this jury Beyond A Reasonable Doubt is whether or not cohen is believable if hes not, the cases in trouble, the way they tried to do this is to show that certain facts and circumstances, stories, vignettes are all backed up by other people and do you believe that that testimony from david pecker will help make Michael Cohen a more credible witness, given we know that donald trump and his legal team are going to try to undermine whatever he does say on the Witness Stand. I think it can and ill tell you for the following reason, what we see so far in peckers testimony is this idea that not only is it Michael Cohen as a person whos coming to him with requests regarding mcdougal and ms clifford. But what you also have is direct lines of communication as you all talked about earlier, with mr. Trump those are critical pieces to all of the stats serves the master of corroboration, which is what the prosecution is really looking for. And then theres one other component to all of this each of the, each piece of the testimony that they bring in also needs to serve this larger piece that theyre focused on, which is making sure this is a case of substance not just of paper. So as much as the vehicle for the case relates to whether or not there are 34 falsifying my Business Records. They need to make sure fundamentally, at its root that it relates to Election Interference. What, what the diegos referred to as Election Interference, that is ultimately going to be what the jury could hang its hat on if it decides to convict yeah. We saw those ties to the campaign as they were saying, this was one of the first stories. The story of the dorman was the first one that they had actually paid for it. It was obviously close to the 2016 Campaign Deaf precise. Great to have you thank you for joining today. Thank you and questioning in Donald Trumps Election Interference, hush money. Trial is house just wrapped up for the De The Witness has now left the Witness Stand and you sold trump. Theyre turning that Hallway Appearance its into a moment to have a campaign stump speech, even a brief one. We have much more of our cnns special coverage and just a few moments live from the nations capital. One of the most unforgettable nights in dc, misra honorable read back here again, President Biden and comedian Collin Joseph headline the white house Correspondents Dinner Live Saturday at seven eastern on cnn Liberty Mutual customize my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. Thats great. I know ive been telling everyone how many people did you tell only pay for what you need like. 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Are shipping breaks may be the cost of doing business, but at what cost turns shipping to your advantage with low cost grounds, shipping from the United States Postal Service the assignment with hadi cornish, listen wherever you get your podcasts welcome back this special lives cnn coverage, catch in hill today, prosecutors running in manhattan, jury through a detailed presentation of how david pecker is National Enquirer acted as a safety net for the then candidate for president of the United States. Now, former president of the united i States Donald trump, government attorneys also signposting how david pecker or operated as something of a hatchet man for the 2016 Trump Campaign publishing lightly false stories about his then campaign rivals from ted cruz to Hillary Clinton. Pecker was also asked about Karen Mcdougal, the former playboy playmate of the year, who allegedly had a tenant month to a year long relationship with mr. Trump. The name weve yet to get to in packers testimony, Stormy Daniels. Stormy daniels is the woman whose silence trump allegedly tried to buy and who is actually at the center of the 34 criminal counts mr. Trump is charged with in this case. Lets go to laura and ellie at the magic wall now for more information. Really important quite a de to have testimony from david pecker number today, number two, came out with a bit of an reminders though about who he was really getting to. I mean, there was moments he talked about who he was, of course, to donald trump in the catch and kill scenario. But these two are looming pretty large here. Michael cohen and hope hicks riveting day of testimony really, and david the packers testimony was crucial in its own right. But what hes also doing a prosecutors doing, theyre setting the table for me. Witnesses who are going to come later, including most of all Michael Cohen now david pecker is testimony established Michael Cohen was Donald Trumps picture. We hear that expression all the time. Its hard to remember now sometimes because Michael Cohen is so antitrump now. But boy, oh boy, in vivid detail, david pecker, showing us that communications with donald trump almost always ran through Michael Cohen. You also mentioned and we will hear from this witness as well, interactions with hope hicks how concerned the campaign was after that access Hollywood Tape came out in the closing days of the 2016 election. The other thing that we really saw is the buildup here, the sequence of this catch and kill thats such a key phrase from today, catch and kill what donald trump, david pecker, Michael Cohen would do is they would hear about potentially damaging stories they would get the rights to them and they would kill those we heard in detail about the way that they purchased story from the doorman, dino sajudin, about a story that turned out to be untrue about a child donald trump had of at a wedlock, we ended the day with david pecker talking about the effort to catch and kill the story from Karen Mcdougal and where were building up to that though, resume on thursday hes any involvement that david pecker has or knows about with the payoffs silence Stormy Daniels. So the prosecutors are building their story here, sort of brick by brick up to the most important alsheikh. And also remember, catch and kill as an actual theory is not illegal. Whats being charged here is that it was being done to try to undermine the ability to tab transparency for ones Campaign Finances and beyond in an ultra election. Karen mcdougal and dino as well, really important here in terms of what the catch and kill Checkbook Journalism was about. But the biggest thing here is that it has to be for trumps benefit. And the why this date so important to think about august 2015, remember, it was june 2015 when donald trump came down at escalator in that famous moment before this apec or talked about people didnt have any moment or did anything to catch and kill stories about trump before that, the thailand will be very important. Jake thinking about why now and why this time, remember there was an election in 2016 thats right. I remember. Thanks so much. Lets try get some big picture thoughts right now from, from our panel, kasie, as we end this momentous day, were david becker is really rolled out some fairly sleazy behaviors by the National Enquirer mr. Trump and mr. Cohen what what are you thinking . I think im just struck by the fact that in some ways this feels completely inevitable when you think about what the ark of covering donald trump on our political stage, when he first, when i went to one of his first rally is in iowa in 2015 he was a Reality Television star running for president. And this obviously dripped out over the course of that campaign. And then we had four years of a trump administration. It seems like ending in this place in a courtroom where its all being litigated and were all reliving at eight years later was probably inevitable. And i think my big question is now were on the eve of his third president ial campaign, his third major election day are americans going to see this . Are they sitting at home rolling their eyes, tuning it out and walking away or are they being reminded of the chaos that was the trump time on this on the stage. And here in washington right . Political point of view, obviously, it is all of the people outside the 12 men and women on the jury that matter most. But that is not what hes facing probably for the next six weeks. Its those 12 people. And how he comports himself. And most importantly, how his defense tries to to beat back this paint, this painting that the prosecution is putting out there for them about somebody who tried to, in their words change the outcome of the election in a way that was illegal. Its going to be up to them to determine whether or not they can prove that an actionpacked de inside the court for donald trump, the cnn reporters inside the room who watched every moment are going to join us next much more special live cnn coverage of this unprecedented case against the former president of the united and it states were going to squeeze in one quick break the sinking of the titanic. How would really happen, especially while were premier sunday at nine on cnn imagine a future where plastic is not wasted. But instead remade over and over into the things that keep our food fresher our family safer and our planet cleaner to help us get there americas plastic makers are investing billions of dollars to create Innovative Products and new recycling technologies for sustainable change. 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And through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. Real solutions for kids and communities at aft. Org my name is oluseyi they become centers of their communities. And some of my favorite moments throughout my life are watching sports with my dad. Now, i work at comcast as part of the team that created our ai highlights technology, which uses ai to detect the major plays in a sports game. Giving millions of fans, like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. The other with customed year. Get started today. Id customers. Com. Im pete muntean at Reagan National airport. This is cnn hello, im Brianna Keilar in washington alongside Boris Sanchez and it is day two of testimony in the historic donald trump hush money trial. That is just wrapped up. Trumps longtime friend and tabloid executive david pecker was back on the stand today and he detailed a pivotal 2015 meeting with trump and Michael Cohen that resulted in paris rucker making a secret gentlemans agreement to shield trump from damaging stories during the 2016 campaign. Pecker testifying that the deal was, quote, highly highly confidential. Now, the agreement was never actually put into writing, but that 25 meeting almost nine years ago eventually led to the Stormy Daniels payout. And that is now at the heart of the first criminal trial of a former president cnns chief Legal Correspondent paula reid has been following the case. Apollo. What else did jurors hear from david pecker laborious. This must be a fascinating witness for the jury to listen to you because they lead up to that 2015 meeting by talking about peckers relationship, a longstanding relationship that he had with trump throughout the 80s and 90s how they had this mutually beneficial friendship where trump would help him with stories that sold really well. But then ahead of the 2016 election, they had this now infamous meeting in 20 15, where they talked about how pecker through the National Enquirer could help the campaign. Hacker vowed to be the eyes and ears of the campaign in terms of hearing what kind of stories were being sold out there, what kind of stories were being pitched . And of course thats how we know the National Enquirer came to purchase the rights and then suppress two stories that were mentioned in todays testimony. The first was from a door man who falsely claimed that trump had fathered a child out of wedlock. They paid him 30,000 for the rights to his story and then buried it until shortly after the election and then just before we broke for the day the jury started to hear about another similar story Karen Mcdougal now this is significant because this is the allegation about an extramarital affair that trump denies, but its significant because we know, of course, am i paid her for her story and then also suppress that ahead of the election. And this is also incredibly important to the prosecutions case. Because theyre arguing that trump wanted to cover up the hush money that he and Michael Cohen allegedly paid to Stormy Daniels because he was trying to help his chances in the 2016 election and arguing that everything that David Packard did here was in peckers own words, a part of this larger effort to help trump in the election ten, and thats what leads this into possible criminal conduct. Its different if you want to help your friend get some stores in the tabloid. But if youre doing things like this, you know, giving people tens of thousands or even well over 100,000 to help a candidate in a campaign while simultaneously publishing damaging stories about their opponents but thats brings us to court for the next few weeks. Yeah, that distinguishes the argument between whether this was an effort to help trump personally or politically that time testimony may go a long way there with the jury, paula reid, from outside the courthouse in manhattan. Thank you so much, briana. Lets talk more about this now with former federal prosecutor, elliott williams. Eliot. Lets start now with the testimony of david pecker. Of course, explain why prosecutors called him as their first went. Sure. And theres no science briana as to why youd ever put a witness on you want someone whos palling and got something to say and david pecker is exactly that in this case, hes a former publisher of the National Enquirer and was said to be in acknowledged being involved in an effort to stop this embarrassing conduct about foreign President Trump from getting public ahead of the 2016 election. Now theres a long history of the National Enquirer number one, pushing out stories that were very favorable to the former president and very critical of his opponents. And thats ted cruz there, senator from texas. He was running against at the time a number of critical articles of Hillary Clinton senator at the first lady as well and so thats sort of the National Enquirers role in all of this. And david pecker had a hand in it explain why hes crucial enough that theyre calling him considering there is a risk here, which is that they might reinforce or even just establish this idea that favorable coverage of a candidate is kind of the norm when it really shouldnt be. And its absolutely the norm. People, theres nothing that spectacular about favorable coverage of candidates. Now, what he can testify to is this idea of the catch and kill pattern buying stories and suppressing them. So theyre not harmful to the former president. Thats one, tying it to the 2016 campaign, which theres also relevant. You dont have a crime here and paula touched on this a little bit until there is falsifying Business Records to suppress this information from getting out, falsifying Business Records for cooking the books as we have here and it all comes together in this 2015 meeting donald trump, david pecker, Michael Cohen, former attorney for the former president , and hope hicks, a white house staffer, were in an out of trump tower. This mating where a lot of these things in this prior slide, were talked about catchandkill perhaps cooking the books or at least falsifying Business Records. And pecker gibbs prosecutors, what they want. Hes going to testify hi to that. We also saw this hearing this morning where it was discussed whether trump violated a gag order which prevents him from talking publicly about witnesses in jurors in the case. The penalty is a. 1,000 per offense. Explain why its seems like small change for him. A lot of people have asked me about that as well, briana and 1,000 seems really small, but look, its set by new york law in new york judiciary loss 7501 sets 1,000 per instance. So per statement, per comment, whatever or and, or it could be either 30 days in jail. Now, it wouldnt be uncommon for a judge to start low and then work their way up to jail because you also have to remember donald trump in this case has not been formally sanctioned. Its all the other cases where hes had gag orders and so on. So its not so surprising that that hes talking about this is what the prosecutors have asked for. Theyve asked for fines. Now if donald trump is sanctioned, if there is one statement that is the one that his attorneys are blowing their minds over. Its this statement he retweeted or tweeted about jessie waters from fox news talking about liberal activists lying to the judge. There is no defending this statement whatsoever. The other ones he has some statements where he gets into Michael Cohen. Its a closer call. This is a defendant talking about a jury pool in a way that just doesnt have protection. And to quote, little orphan annie, bet your bottom dollar. The judge refers to this and whatever he does for donald trump really interesting, elliott. Thank you so much for taking us through that. Are special coverage will continue ahead. Plus Columbia University and seeing that all classes will be hybrid for the rest of the school year as propalestinian protests spread to more College Campuses as well, we are live from the columbia protest ahead riyad saves new album is breaking records hey with priceline vip family, you can unlock deals five times faster. You dont even have to be an actual family. Id be the dead on the day he physically its clear that im the dad. Okay. So which dad is pain . Youre good . Start your day with nature. Me. 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Thats when 8085920400 welcome back to our special coverage or team of reporters attending the first criminal trial of former President Donald Trump made an observation today about the jurys attention to testimony the seven men and five women were listening to david pecker, the former Top Executive at the National Enquirer, who detailed the catch and kill scheme at the center of this trial, or reporters write that, quote, pecker is speaking toward the jury many of the jurors heads are turning to look at pecker as he answers questions and then back toward the prosecutor as he asks next question, like a tennis match joining us now is jury consultant and attorney lynda moreno. Shes sort of as a jury consultant in a number of highprofile trials, including those of Wesley Snipes and Elizabeth Holmes linda, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. It seems like jurors are paying close attention to peckers testimony, and the details of his unsavory dealings, you could say, how do you think they are receiving that testimony . Theyre perceiving it so far so good to be with you both. I think whats important here is that the prosecution put on mr. Pecker to sort of frame the story, to give context and continuity now, at the end of this case, the jurors are going to be given instructions by the judge. The law, and how to determine credibility. It seems that a lot of us have common sense. You know, you walk into a meeting or you meet someone youve never met before, and you think i dont believe a word out of his his mouth or i believe everything she says. So we have this internal radar, but the jury instructions will tell the jurors, but they can look for a lot of things. Does the story makes sense . Does it hold together . What are the biases, the selfinterest in the motivations that are playing throughout here phrase from the latin, cui bono, who benefits from this firmus case, from this alleged conduct. So the jurors, of course, are paying a lot of attention and im sure they taking a lot of notes i mean, it is asking a lot. I think of anyone to Pay Attention to something for hours, lynda and you have yes, you have all these salacious details. You also have very important financial details. Theres a paper trail. They have a lot to keep track of how important is it that the prosecution walks them through that and how easy is it to fail at that well, its very important because of course its the paper trail that gives the corroboration to what all these witnesses are going to testify to and at the end of the trial all of those exhibits, the emails, the Text Messages, they invoices. Theyll all be sent back to the jury if theyve been admitted as exhibit for the jury to look over . Yes it can be very tedious, but its absolutely necessary certainly as corroboration, because youre talking about witnesses who themselves might have credibility problems no, im also curious about how these jurors are processing the highprofile nature of this case. Youve obviously, as we mentioned, helps select some highprofile juries before, rather highprofile juries for rather juries for highprofile clients, like Wesley Snipes, you mentioned and Elizabeth Holmes how do you ensure that juries dont immerse themselves in this walltowall coverage that potentially could sway them and influence their judgment well, thats a great question and i guess what i want to say about that is something happens to people when they take the oath in their courtroom where they become jurors. Are they understand what the obligation is. They see the accused at Council Table and they know that these are very high especially in such a historic case like this and one of the instructions is that there it was certainly on the questionnaire that theyre not allowed to follow any of the media coverage. Of course, thats important because that would sway as youve suggested their opinions youd be surprised at how well jurors can do. And at the end of the day, you have to just believe that when they tell you that theyre doing their very best on there, just listening to the evidence thats produced at the trial. The witnesses, and looking at the documents thats what theyre doing. Its a challenging role in of course, you have the former president. There. I mean hes theres the jury is watching him. Weve got our reporters of observing his behavior. Lynda, from coming in with paper. Hes writing notes, hes leaning back in his chair. Sometimes he he even has his eyes closed. It appears how much does the jury Pay Attention to the behavior of a defendant in your experience everything they are watching him and in my experience, as a defense lawyer, i wont say for how many years now but they are watching every move that hes making. They would if his family was in the courtroom, they would be watching that as well. But they are watching everything. I would say that its good for the accused, for the defendant to be engaged, to be consulting with their attorney her knee because it matters to them. And if it matters to them, it should matter to the jury. So it is very important. Jurors pay very close attention to everything that the defendant is doing. Very interesting. Linda, thank you so much, london, miranda, we appreciate your time today thank you still a lot of angles to cover with this historic trial. The first one of a former president we had reporters in the room, no cameras allowed in, but theyre going to join us after a quick break to give us some of the color and texture what was happening today when the jinx came out . I thought, oh, my god when bob has a friend, he expects Blind Loyalty to prizes and certified if youre shopping for a home realtor only shows you homes for sale source directly from professionals, meaning you can trust every home listing is a realistic dont all have to do that. Not really. Kelly trust the number one app Real Estate Professionals trust. Hey, theyre brenda. Its carroll actually. So which like are we operating on . You mean arm . Its all connected, asking the right question can greatly impact your future. You share your an orthopedist. Actually, im a sagittarius specially when it comes to your finances, give a question. Or us Financial Planner yes. Im a cfp professional cop professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. 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This is cnn cnn breaking news were breaking news in a cnn are reporters who have been inside the courthouse following the trump trial, have just been allowed to exit. Lets go straight to them. Cnns Kara Scannell and jeremy herb and kara, weve heard about this testimony from david pecker. You saw how jurors and trump reacted i can tell us what you saw inside the courtroom when david pecker was giving his testimony, he was often facing either the prosecutor or turning to the jury foxx when he was providing the answers, the donald trump was sitting just a few feet away at the defendants table in the defendant seat. And he was flipping through papers at times, but when david pecker was talking about some of these very specific catch and kill deals. The arrangement that was allegedly crafted at trump tower in august 2015, and then it Karen Mcdougal story, he was facing david pecker are watching him as he was testifying, couldnt see Donald Trumps facial expression, but his body was facing him in his face was facing the juror jury was paying attention during the day. I mean, there was evidenced that was shown. They were often looking at screens like emails and other exhibits, but they were other times like watching a tennis match with their eyes on david pecker when he answered questions and then turning back to the prosecutor when he asked the next question. Journey to that point about the jurys attention. What was the point of peckers testimony that seemed to get the jurors attention the most that they may have elicited. The most interests from a Body Language perspective i actually could not see the jury from where i was in the overflow room, but i was able to watch the president his facial expressions. And for most of the day really try it, was not trying to react as they were bringing up issues they bring a lot of sorted details about his personal life that came out there that were being discussed back in 20 one, 15, and 2016. We had their allegations of a door man who said that he had fathered an illegitimate child, which turned out to be untrue. We have the Karen Mcdougal allegations trump it really seemed like he was trying not to react while he was in the presence of that jerry last week when he was here, he was theres a lot of time he spent the jury wasnt in the room. Now that we have a jury, it feels like the threat former president , hes trying to not really make any visible, audible, kind of shaking his head and just having that so reaction that weve seen previously. In other cases, and i would see that the jurors themselves, the times i was watching them, they didnt have any visible or physics nicole reaction to the testimony. They all seem to keep pretty straight faces as david pecker was telling with giving his testimony and answering the question by the prosecutors yes. This speaks to the sort of machinations in order to see the jury and to see donald trump that you have to have people position in different places. But i wonder jeremy is you, were watching trump. There there were i mean, listen, this allegation that he had fathered a loved child. There were so many lurid details, accusations that he had an affair with a Playboy Model. How did he react as . The court was hearing that yeah. Whats interesting is his his mode of reacting to that seems to be to pass notes to his attorneys. We saw a lot of no passing between the three attorneys that are sundance them and the former president himself we dont know whats on those notes. We can see him riding, we can see the notes kind of going back and for but as i said, hes really trying. It seems like not to react to the testimony now, well see what happens. Of course, when Michael Cohen is sitting there across from him and talking about this it may be harder for him to not have i guess the lack of reaction that we saw for large parts of today. I wonder if cohen will say hi, the way that david pecker did yesterday today kara, im curious about the gag order hearing. This morning. This was before the testimony got underway. There were some testing moments between the judge and the defense team for donald trump at one point, judge merchan telling when trumps attorney that he was quote, losing all credibility. How did trumps team seemed to react to that well, i think we saw todd blanche. Thats trumps main attorney kind of accept that he he was he took this posture like he understood where the judge was coming from but he also knew that the judge hasnt ruled yet, so he didnt want to continue down that path. He made that comment towards the of the morning after they had already been discussing this for about an hourandahalf came up because trumps attorneys were saying that they thought the gag order wasnt clear, and so they didnt think that trump had violated it when he was reposting things that other people had said particularly about the jury and the judge saying you could have always asked me if you thought it was wasnt clear and then they were trying to show a post that had come up to justify trump doing it, and the judge noticing that the timestamp of that post was three hours after Donald Trumps and at that point, he had said, youre losing your all credibility with the court and he reminded him that he hadnt yet ruled on this. But he would be reserving his decision and making his ruling on this sometime to come the he and hes going to be making that ruling. So when are we expecting qarrah the timing on that to be the judge didnt give any guidance on when he would issue the ruling. The prosecutors want the judge to issue but soon because they think that trump keeps violating the gag order, including some statements that he made last night about Michael Cohen. So theyre saying that he does doesnt seem to be stopping in this. They said that to this as a willful violation that hes continuing to make it and they want him to be find at this 0. 1 thousand per violation the warning to trump that he could face up to 30 days in jail if he continues to violate the gag order at this point, they said theyre not asking for that they want trump to be fined and they want him to be told yes. To take down the posts that are at issue right now. And jeremy, you had the Vantage Point of donald trump and what he was doing during all of this. What was his reaction to those testing moments between the judge and his defense team yeah. It was interesting. He was still passing some notes two is ive had attorneys who were still at the bench, but he really he it seemed like he was trying not to really Pay Attention and to blanch as he was getting into it with the judge when we saw blanche give his Opening Statement, the president former president , he turned to blanche and he was watching him throughout. Today this morning. He really wasnt. He was just sitting straightforward, looking ahead, sort of staring out into space thanks for a large part of it. And so i think again, he tried he was trying just really not to get engaged and get wrapped into this. Obviously, issue that makes him very angry as we heard about after he left the courtroom this afternoon so what are we expecting ahead here . Kara so Karen Mcdougal was the last witness on the stand. Excuse me, the testimony involving Karen Mcdougal was the last bit of testimony heard from david pecker was just the final 15 minutes of the day and he was teeing up this issue. They knew about her allegation of a romantic relationship with the former president and a conversation that pecker recounted having with donald trump at this point, they are still scrambling understand what the allegation is and whether she wants to go public with it or if shed rather not. So i think what we will hear next from david pecker is he will then explain how they agreed to make this 150 the thousand dollars payment to her that ami his company did and then that there was some cold feet about it after the fact and this will then tie up the Stormy Daniels polls payment because there were three catch and kill deals as part of this alleged pattern that prosecutors have put out and they weve now heard testimony about the first two. Stormy daniels will follow, and that will get to the center of this case hes this main allegation here, the 130,000 payment and then the eventual cover up that prosecutors say took place through the falsification of Business Records. So were getting now into kind of the meat of the case, getting into the core part of what prosecutors say was this conspiracy to influence the 2016 president ial election Kara Scannell, jeremy herb, appreciate that detail from inside the courtroom. It is the top of the hour on cnn news central on Boris Sanchez with Brianna Keilar in the nations capital. And were following the historic testimony in the second day of Donald Trumps hush money case in manhattan. Lets discuss with our expert panel we have with us, michael moore, elliott williams, gloria before john and jaime gan, gail Michael First hugh, what did you make of the testimony from david pecker . You know, not surprising to be frank coming. I thought that it was laying the groundwork he was starting to tell the story. These are season prosecutors. I know that the jury wants to hear the story. Hes laying out some things that anticipation of other witnesses at the same time, there was no big bombshell, there was nothing that made me think this is the smoking gun. Theyve been weiting all, but i dont know that thats what hes used. Four i think the one thing they need to watch out for the prosecution that is is does the catch and kill game, if you will, does that start to look normal . Isnt something that suddenly doesnt have the same various intent if it becomes just a regular part of sort of a Political Campaign or what famous people do, or whatever the case may be, thats something they need to watch out for them and will here good more from him. Im sure as we go through, but lets talk more about that because i especially think that if you just watch popular representations of journalism in movies, i mean, i blink bang my head against a wall sometimes because thats not how it operates, right . Thats not journalism. Its not ethical. And yet here we are that is what was happening in this case. And there is a risk that if someone doesnt have any background when it comes to journalism, they may think that this is normal. Thats a huge risk for the prosecution. Moreover, this is a look particularly in manhattan juries do complicated cases all the time. He was financial fraud cases dealing with complex transactions all the time. But in fairness, this charge is slightly complex when you and youre talking about falsifying Business Records for the purpose of concealing or committing a felony that was a campaign violation. It doesnt roll off the tongue smoothly now, again, thats not to say that a new york jury isnt capable of of finding someone guilty on a complicated crime, but its not homicide or arson or something that it happened. You did it and people sort of get their heads around it. And so i just think you might lose some jurors and prosecutors have to be mindful of that. How can they put this in terms that the ordinary juror can understand . Hopefully you wouldnt think it was the normal way journalists do business because it is not. But what it is is tawdry and what he did or theyre trying to get him to do is via corroborating witness because they know that Michael Cohen is going to testify and he was part of the triumvirate and that 2015 meeting with donald trump, pecker and cohen, in which they hatch this plan. Apparently to kinda protect donald trump during the election. So since Michael Cohens credibility has some issues, shall we say that david pecker is there to corroborate what Michael Cohen will undoubtedly say on the stand. And so what they want him to do is be a believable a believable witness. And i think so far they have succeeded in that and picking up on michaels point, thats the rationale b. I. Thank behind putting david pecker first, its a compelling wetness and one that doesnt come with a lot of baggage and sort of things that you can impeach him on. He doesnt have prior convictions for lying that Michael Cohen doesnt seem embarrassed by doing all this notch. Thats not to say that Michael Cohen you may not provide truthful testimony. Of course, he could provide playful testimony, but hes a witness that the defense can impeach with his prior conduct is just the facts that jimmy your view of donald trump absorbing all of this, the tawdry details as it was described a moment go and then coming out to the cameras and essentially having his moment on the Campaign Trail would have been a moment on the Campaign Trail, a moment onset of a courtroom where he gets this podium to sort of give his view of things. I dont now what was going through his head today, but he looked pretty miserable and i just looked at today from the point of view of the jury, if youre watching this donald trump in many ways, is larger than life but after a while when youre a juror and youre sitting there with him in the courtroom and youre were watching him. Remember there was one potential juror who we interviewed afterwards and she talked about going into the courtroom and oh, its donald trump from and then after a while, she said he was just some guy and i do wonder about the effective that over time on the jurors that he really becomes just some guy i look at the National Enquirer a little bit differently. A lot of people believe what they read in the National Enquirer, but a lot of people dont. This is in york jury it may be mixed what they think about it, but to meet the most interesting context was if this was a conspiracy to affect the election, what did they show today that pecker and trump were friends and there was a history. He went after ted cruz he went after marco rubio. There is a context for taking down Donald Trumps opponents. And he was helpful to trump this is not an enemy of Donald Trumps like Michael Cohen as a sworn enemy right now. So, you know, pecker was saying, yeah, you know, we were friends for a very long time and i did whatever i could do to help him and he got me invited to parties and he invited me to the president ial announcement so they portrayed pecker as somebody who wasnt coming in to stick a knife in Donald Trumps back, but was rather somebody in there to kind of just tell what had happened. Thats what i think is so interesting about some of this testimony today, which is in yesterday, which is that were getting a real sense of how donald trump was protecting himself ahead of that election. And i wonder with the details about the different kinds the stories that were either put out there or that were killed what you think that is painting for people outside of the courtroom well, i it portrays somebody who was surrounded by people who did nothing but protect him and try and hurt his perceived enemies like ted cruz, for example, who was a popular republican candidate who is challenging him and gives you a real sense of the kind of protection that donald trump always had around him, and that he solicited from people who worked for him, the kind of loyalty he and did. And what pecker got in return was access to some kind of Society Goods store and storage on speeding kim stories the other part of this is i dont think we can stress enough the timing of all of this. It was october access hollywood had happen and october 7, that was a bombshell, guys dont forget what that was like remember, trump came out and he sort of had to do that the hostage video. Hi, i wasnt going to use that, but yeah, you guys then were talking about october 27, 20 the aid. Its two weeks before the election to that point, michael, a thread of the testimony that the prosecution tried to get from david pecker today was distinguished chang that this was Political Health and not personal help. It wasnt as if trump came to him and said, i dont want melania to hear about this. I dont want bear in there young son to hear about this. This was expressly for the purpose of helping him politically. Well, i mean, i think thats right. The question is, does that mean he had the criminal intent . Are there are they able to cross the threshold to say trump had the criminal intent to do this, to interfere with the election. There was this simply another campaign move. I mean, i feel a little bit like kids in their first year biology class or something, you know, you see the pretty little pig or whatever and then suddenly you cut into it and you see all the one its really made up of. And im wondering, is this the first time or the closest weve ever gotten . To see what the inside of these campaign workings or the people dont know this, but this, this is not the only person to ever keep bad stories from the press and the defense essentially in their Opening Statement put forward, it may be weird. Look in it. You dont like how the sausage is made . But this is an illegal, right . And i think thats ultimately less where they have to get the prosecution has to get there. This is a good start. I mean this is not been a bad day for them at any at any stretch. I mean, its been a good day for the for the state, but theyve got to continue on and connect those dots of not only the conspiracy talk, get the information and get the statements that they want to get in, but theyve got to talk about intent beyond just i wanted to win this was an embarrassing story and i dont want it out there. It is unusual to be in league with the National Enquirer. I just want to make clear about that. I mean, weve all seen how journalism is done around political who campaigns and how you have the apparatus are on a candidate trying to tamp down bad stories this is something very different and thats not even, thats not even, thats just sort of its foundation of this charge. But i do want to ask one thing which is a legal question of elliott that is that there was this agreement that they had, but it was a verbal agreement. To me and i wonder if that is problematic. Itll part of the reason is it was verbal to keep it very hush, hush. But is that a problem . Is very mad . Under the law and agreement can be verbal or contract like literally a binding contract can be verbal if both parties are in agreement and theres some exchange of a thing of value so prosecutors can come into court and their final argument and say, look, an agreement is fine. The judge may even instruct the jury that agreement need not be in writing to be binding on the parties, might be evidenced a little bit too of guilt. Right. I mean, what when you dont want to get caught, what you dont write it now, you talk about it could be i didnt think it uses a strong can ask question of the lawyers here, which is that pecker was given immunity and not given immunity because he did nothing wrong. But perhaps what he was doing was an inkind Campaign Contribution to donald trump. All of this protection and planting these stories about his political enemies. I mean, isnt that potentially illegal i mean, yeah, i think so. And i mean, people use it. Ill take community deals unless theyve got something to worry tell you that the government but doesnt offer them unless theyre set that for them. And lets be clear, the defense is going to hammer here on cross over that. They are going to make it a point about this as a person who has something to hide, ladies and gentlemen, hes got a bias. He cant believe a word. He says, well, have to see if the jury believes that. Thank you so much to all of you for the discussion. We do appreciate it. And up next happening right now, President Biden is making a Rare Campaign trip to florida in a bid to use abortion rights to put the typically red perhaps back into play this november and propalestinian demonstrations are forcing College Leaders across the country to balance the right to protest with ensuring students safety. Theres a new announcement from Columbia University and the growing unrest on more College Campuses the sinking of the titanic. 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Are calling was to build trucks. And thats why trucks are what we do we put our everything and every tray so that when you find your calling nothing can stop me from answering im Zachary Cohen and washington and this is cnn right now. Weve been monitoring this speech by President Joe Biden and tampa, florida. The first of two campaign stops. Hes holding there today. The president is putting in some renewed focus on the state and just days before a new restrictive sixweek abortion ban takes effect. There heres what he had to say moments ago okay, that represents really is a women are enduring on variable painted cruelty because of donald trump sadly its pain and cruelty that millions of women in florida now face. You know, but as i said, she just said its not inevitable its not inevitable. We can stop it when you vote. We just stopped we have cnns Kayla Tausche joining us now from the white house and kayla, we should point out florida has gone for the republican candidate here in their candidates in the last two election cycles how seriously is the Campaign Thinking that they could make florida a factor ovary the numbers would make it seem to be a longshot, but even so the Biden Campaign is hoping that this is the one issue that spurs the turnout of moderate voters. Especially women, President Biden just moments ago saying that that sixweek abortion ban in the state of florida would affect 4 million women and the Biden Campaign yesterday saying that it will affect women all across the southeast. Two would be traveling to find care elsewhere. That this is the First Official stop in the tampa bay area by hey, President Biden in the 2024 election. And so is certainly the campaign believes that this area, despite the fact that its trending republican, could potentially be winnable. If this abortion issue is the one that galvanizes voters. Traditionally, we have seen Vice President kamala harris, the one that his fronting the message on Abortion Access and reproductive rights and even just a few weeks ago, the white house declining to say whether President Biden, who as a lifelong catholic, has held evolving and complex views on the topic, would be personally stumping on this issue clearly, the campaign, not only sees this as one that will really light a fire under voters in certain swing states and potentially in florida but its also an issue that allows them to draw a direct and substantive contrast with former President Donald Trump as he sits in a courtroom in new york city, rionda and boris all right. Kayla, thank you so much for that. Former President Trump. Hes also focusing on his election bid this afternoon after he was attending Court Earlier today in the new york hush money case. Today, hes meeting with the former japanese Prime Minister at trump tower. That as were learning, some foreign leaders have been reaching out to the former president , cnns alayna train joins us now, what is the Trump Campaign saying about this meeting . Well, theres a few things. One is that this is not totally unusual, right . You do have instances where you have foreign leaders meeting with the equivalent of the us Opposition Leader thats actually something that a spokesperson for david cameron, the British Foreign secretary, said as he was meeting with donald trump a couple of weeks ago. But i think the really interesting thing here, of course, is that donald trump is very unique in the sense of that hes not just another candidate or just the republican nominee. He is someone who was president four years ago and has his own longstanding relationships with many of these leaders and its also something that i think is really presenting a challenging dynamic for joe biden because we know that Foreign Policy and Foreign Policy talks often get frozen in an election cycle. But i think its even more potent right now because were talking about donald trump. Now. I do just want to read for you quickly what Trump Campaign spokesman brian hughes said two in response to this, sorry, i just pull it up right here. He said, quote, meetings and calls from World Leaders reflect the recognition of what we already know here at home. Joe biden is weak. And when President Trump is sworn in as the 47th president of the United States, the world well be more secure and america will be more prosperous. So thats the official campaign. Pain response. But i also just want to point out the timing of all of this. Weve really seen donald trump ramp up these meetings with foreign leaders in recent weeks, some, again, on the sidelines of him appearing in court last week, he met with the polish president andrzej duda. Today hes going to be meeting with the former japanese Prime Minister taro aso. And so its all coming on. A very interesting time as well. And really i think whats happening is some of these foreign leaders see the writing on the wall, which is that the election and the polls show that the 2024 election between trump and biden are going very close. Its going to be a very close election. And they want to make sure that they have strong ties. To donald trump should he be the one to win come november, alayna treene, thanks so much for the update. So well head on cnn news central, large propalestinian demonstrations are popping up at schools from coasttocoast. Next were gonna go live to two universities. 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Thats like 20 a month per unlimited line. I dont want to miss that. Thats amazing doc. Mobile savings are calling. Visit xfinitymobile. Com to learn more. Doc . Solution every weekday morning, cnn five things has what you need to get going with your day if the five essential stories of the morning in five minutes or less cnns five things with kate bolduan streaming weekdays exclusively on macs any moment now were expecting to hear from leaders at Columbia University as tensions have been escalating on campus amid ongoing propalestinian protests. Demonstrations of erupted at schools across the country in recent days. At some stoking fears of antisemitic violence resulting in the arrest of dozens of students and faculty. The growing crisis is now prompting School Officials to take some pretty extraordinary measures to confront this issue. Cnn is live on the ground with isabel rosales, who was at Emerson College in boston first though we do want to go to omar jimenez who is live from columbia in new york. Omar tell us whats happening right now. Yes. So right now, what youre seeing behind me is the encampment that has been the center of protest, not just here at columbia, but of course, the types of protests that have emanated to campuses across the country. This encampment, encampment is now when its seventh day and they say their core reason for being here as they want the university to divest incorporations, they say are profiting from Israeli Apartheid genocide. Now, in the initial few days of this encampme, existing the new york police department, the nypd was called into clear out of why one, they are still art facing some criticism internally for that, but also its part of why these students are at least these protesters here, say that that was what raised the temperature of a lot of these protests and they point back to that moment when the university of turned to an outside force to peer the amount that they lost the trust essentially, of these protesters that said we have recently in the last few minutes heard from leadership here at Columbia University, they say hed been in negotiations with students until 2 00 a. M. But also that they believe as of right now that this protests goes against school policy. Now question is, they made that assessment and the last few minutes, at least publicly but we dont know exactly what that next enforcement measure will be since the police came in a few days ago at this point the school is added security in an around. They have gone to hybrid learning just out of a precautionary tale just for safety. But also, we spoke to one jewish students a few minutes ago to who said that she didnt feel safe on this campus. Then we also spoke to some folks inside this encampment. Who told us that they are trying to make it as welcoming environment as possible. And i should also mention before i go is that there is a major contrast between what weve seen oncampus versus some of the demonstrations that have happened off by socalled instigators as theyve been described by many of the folks here on campus. All right. Omar, thank you so much for that. I do want to go now to isabel rosales, who is live at Emerson College in boston because were seeing unless it multiple schools, isabel, what are you seeing there . What have you heard from students rionda, i been to some of the most prestigious campuses in america. In the past two days and what im seeing is a lot of whats happening here at Emerson College is signs posted like this one, emerson demands ceasefire an atmosphere really that is welcoming at least here, theyre asking people to come in to reflect, to have these conversations over at mit. We saw over 20 tenths in front of a chapel making up that encampment. In solidarity with the students at Columbia University for quiet, a lot of students on laptops, frankly doing their homework. They had signs up, but i did get a real sense of the differences of opinions, the mit hes real alliance, a student organization, via a statement, we got from them. They reached out to School Leadership saying that they did not feel safe, claiming that several students have left their dorms ahead of passover and are staying with relatives and actually calling the in camera men and tight jewish. But then theres a different Student Alliance group, the mit jews for ceasefire. I asked them about that. I asked them whether theyre encampment is antijewish to an organizer who then told me how can we be antijewish with were some of the ones, some of the organizers blending this in cabinet that are here, staying overnight are jewish themselves that organizer also telling me that if the school ultimately decides to tell them to leave to bring down those tents, they will not do so. We know that mit telling cnn that they are determining next steps in regards to those tense guys all right. Isabel, thank you so much for that were joined now by nick bottom. Hes a jewish student at Columbia University as well as the Jewish Theological Seminary nick thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. There have been protests on campus pretty soon after hamas attacks on october 7. Im wondering how these protests and the way that the university has responded to them. Compare. Now to then well, its simple. I think its reached a boiling point in terms of antisemitism, just over the last few days whereas before, i never felt exactly comfortable expressing my jewish identity and therefore expressing myself on campus over the last few days, ive just felt downright unsafe and welcome. As if i dont belong on campus because outside of columbia is entrance over the last few days, weve seen chance of yahoo deem are jews in hebrew go away, go back to poland. They called us colonizers. It said we dont have a culture. Theyve called us all kusama next targets and they chanted for telaviv to be burned to the ground by hamas. Its rhetoric like that over the last few days days, right outside of the entrance to my own university, that makes me feel no longer safe to attend classes, to go to the library, to go to the cafeteria, right now, im completely off campus nick, thats one of the things we have to understand. Different College Campuses are different there are some that are very integrated into a city. Theres a distinction or reporter is same between some of the offcampus protests and some of the oncampus protests. But when youre at a place like colombia, that really is right in the heart of the city theres really no avoiding that with so many People Living off campus, right exactly. And especially not when the scattered few entrances to colombia are constantly the targets of exactly these non columbia affiliated protests i would say ultimately bullying jewish students that both tried to enter and eggsit columbias campus i constantly feel surrounded and even if i live in separate dorms at the Jewish Theological Seminary has gotten to the point where i simply feel fear for my safety every time i stepped out of my dorm and head towards columbias campus im curious to get your thoughts on the distinction between the protesters that are peaceful and those that are making you feel unsafe and that are saying some of the things that you mentioned before that can very easily be heard as threats. Im not sure if youve encountered physical violence, but im wondering what your messages to those who are protesting peacefully and who are seeking change in a way that doesnt put you or students like you at risk then in that case i completely respect their ability to protest freely to speak freely, as long as they keep in the back of their mind. As long as which is as long as they remember, to value jewish life both in and outside of campus, i am allowed and they are allowed to respectfully disagree and while i will passionately disagree with them, i am a proud jew and im a proud zionist i at least have a bit more respect for those who are willing to respect jewish life. It is basically the bare minimum, but its really sad to see even the bare minimum be violated so many times here at columbia nick, what do you think about the decision to shift to hybrid classes . What does that mean for you . What does that mean for other students it means we finally have a chance to breathe and not necessarily worry about who were going to encounter are what the next chance are that were going to facehat will make us feel our lives are threatened and trust jewish students. It comes at such a relief as we have faced such an onslaught of one antisemitic incident after another. And now as im offcampus right here for the first time in awhile, im able to go outside and finally, be relaxed, feel comfortable, feel safe. Its such a relief. I dont think ill ever take it for granted again nick, we thank you for your time today, nick. Bomb. Thank you for being with us. Thank you testimony and former President Trumps historic hush money trial revealing some new details about his deals with a former tabloid chief to catch and kill potentially damaging stories before the 2016 election smile, you found it the feeling of findings dariuss cant filter out the real you. 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Its never been easier to put on your shoes and help. Its a neat at the same time with new handsfree skechers, bobs for dogs, sports lipids for slipping and go. And they have already helped save over 2 million pets i think everybody has made their own assessment of President Trumps character and so far as i know, you dont pay someone 130,000 not to have sex with you . Wow, that was public and senator mitt romney, of what a sound bite react on there to Donald Trumps hush money trial is todays testimony brought back to light multiple lured allegations against the former president including alleged affairs for the Playboy Model with a porn star and an unsubstantiated accusation that he fathered a loved child . Yeah, the former president s longtime friend and former National Enquirer publisher, david pecker, returned to the stand and detailed how he killed the stories as part of a highly confidential agreement with trump, made it all the way back in 2015 when he announced his first president ial run. Our panel of experts is back with us and you do have to wonder how all of this sits with a jury because its very easy. We were talking a moment ago about how much this is a paper trail case where you have to show that Business Records were falsified. But this is a highprofile case, a highprofile defendant and the details are distracted they are, but jurors are like anybody else. I mean, its like watch in a wreck. I mean, they just and just crane their necks to see it. Right. I mean, they may talk about it im instructed theres nobody on the jury that has any preconceived notions that trump has some grand character. I mean, we saw that during jury selection. I mean, there will be less jurors on the panel now, had some of those people when struck. So everybody kinda brings to it their own Life Experience. And the judge is going to tell him you bring to your Life Experience and your common sense and you get to apply that here. So as they peace through the sorted details, whats going to be important for the state is to make sure that their case is not about sex, but its about crime. Its not going to be about, you know pavements and porn stars and pecker and everything that has got to be really just about. Did he do something with a criminal intent to interfere th an influence thelection . Unlawful. And if youre the defee, you cant say the words porn star d payment and nadph because what the defense wants to do is make this into embarrassing conduct that this defendant s simply trying to shield from his family, just like any of us would. Were all human and mortal. And this was him trying to shield embarrassment, not tamper with election. I thk thats what i dont want tsay thate di anythi illegal like that. He didnt Pay Attention to this this little stuff, even though david pecker said that he was a detail man and did look at the piles of papers and sign the checks, but their point is going to be like this was sort of below his pay grade. He didnt really wasnt really actively involved in anything. And i think pecker chris testimony contradicts that exactly. Pecker is a friend this is not Michael Cohen sitting on there. And also donald trump has always taken great pride in the fact that its his company. He makes all the decisions even though his three childr were involved in the company. Its wellknown. If important decisi had to beade. Off the chks he im. He sign micromanagers. I think those kinds of details stickith the ry. Historically, hes been his own blicist, even der pretending to be seone his blicist. So yeah, and i also is on lawyer half the time. It does seem though hes definitely his own spokesperson here. I wonder if we can talk a little bit about this gag order. There was a hearing this morning this is not resolved at this point in time, but this whole thing going on, it doesnt seem like trump is going to back off of any criticism of the case. Some of the judge, what what do you make it this moment . I think this is a distraction. I mean, ill be honest with you. I feel like the jury selection was relatively smooth. It was quick. They wouldnt but what many spectacles to be had this, i feel like the prosecutor really taken the bait every time trump opens his mouth or looks to the left, looks the right suddenly were getting some kind of allegation hes violate the gag order. Theres no juror that said theyve been intimidated at this point by a gag or theres no witness when we hadnt potential jurors i want leave and we had another one coming not in this panel, not in this panel. That before one of the jurors came and laughter having no, but in addition to that, there was a second juror who came and said wasnt sure they wanted to stay, went to the judges chambers. We dont know what happened. Somebody right . Right . But right. But thats not necessarily because trump is science out there. I mean, im not saying that he hadnt technically violated them. While he may typically violated, but you know, saying that this is a democratic county or democratic venue and 95 are the jurys democrats. So what so what michael conus cereal perjurer, i think the prosecutor has a problem because they cant control their witness to right. Theres do the same thing. So as were really in this for tat, good, good for the goose, good for the game. And thats why i think its a distraction. I mean, if i were theyre not asking me for advice, but i mean, if i were talking to the prosecutor, id say keep your head down. Try the case, take the megaphone away thats all youre doing. Is i think the best thing the judge can do even more than sanctioning the president is imposed some order on the proceedings. This is about the judges own courtroom and hidden his own proceedings, not as much about compelling donald trump to behave better in the future. And what you dont want as a judge is a defendant who sort of walking over the rules of the court. Now look at the end of the day. 1,000 fines are not going to have an impact now, in the civil case, it was only after the fines were elevated and there was a risk of prison that the president started behaving a little bit better. So remains to be seen if the judge were to start with lower sanctions and elevate them. Hes going to hes going to take them to task. I mean, hes going to take them out behind the woodshed get onto them. I think at the end of the de, but hes not ing to lock m up oh, no. Thats not donald trump. A cudgel to say im being gged. I cant lk about what i really want to talk about. You heard him y that becau im being gagged by the courtMichael Cohen can say whatever he wants to say about me, but i can so hes going to turn it and flip it and use it to his advantage. Nice said, the jurs bring their own personal expeences to this procs i suspect they donhave the repertoi of personal discussed inhis ca im just say most of them, im pretty sure do not have that. So jimmy, ionder how the trump caaign and his allies are looking at this and viewing how vulnerable ts makes him selection. I think we have seen for a long tim what do we know donald trumpbase is going to stay with him. So lets assume that that continues to hapn on. The other hand, we also note that nald trump has done everything he can over and over and over to delay all of these cases, including this one. They would efert that he wast in the courtroom they going to make thmost out of it. Dona trums nna be dond trum hes going to ce out every day and hes going to say witch hunt and gag order and all the rest. But i dont know. And again, this is not a bad his base independent voters swg voters suburban women, people he needs. Im not sure thats six weeks of this is very od for the trump camp. History tracks at leashis fundraising ll benefit fit. We sw womesuburban women as jamie wasayi, an independent voters, particularly women, i mean, the details are tawdry. Theres no, theres no doubt about it. Nobody is saying i cant possibly imagine dona trump doing anything like that. Who is defending him by saying that yeah. Jaime elliott, michael, preciate it. The conversation. Anks so much. I look forward to havingt a few moreimes a monthlong standoff in congress could be close to ending as the senate prepares to up four a d worth billions of lls for ukine anisrael money that the white house says both countries desperately needs will discuss and just moments riyad saves new album is breaking records starting businesss never easy. 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Finally, moving to final passage in the senate after a breaking, a republican led filibuster on the senate before that vote on the floor, at 2 19, there were 30 republicans who voted in favor of advancing this measure. That was a fact that was touted by Senate Republican leader Mitch Mcconnell what been staunch advocate for aid for ukraine, whose believes that this shows that the gop is essentially attorney as he says, turning the corner away from isolationism as his party he has battled over the us war presence in the world as well as the us support for the war in ukraine. No what mcconnell also said is that he blamed potedly the former for fox news hosTucker Carlson for sting th antiukrainian sentiment in the gop thank damon, possession of ukraine began but Tucker Carlson who in my opinion ended up where he should have been all along which is interviewing Vladimir Putin and so he had an enormous audice which convinced a lot of rankandfile republicans. It may be a mistake ill think the former president had sort of mixed views on it of course, pushed through a Senate Package about two months ago, that stalled in the house. Ultimately, Speaker Mike Johnson decided to move ahead on some slight modifications to that senate bill, which passed the Senate Passed the house on saturday. That is one big reason why folks on the right are coming after them at this moment. But still, the senate expected to pass the house bill as soon as later tonight, despite this gop division and anxi in the ranks. All right. Well be looking for that. Manu raju live on the hill. Thank you. Stay was seeing a new central. Well be right back when a jinx came out i thought, oh, my god on both has a friend. He expects Blind Loyalty. Turns out, when you we have a whole lot of money people are willing to do things for you what do you do when your best friend kills your other best . Fred surprises and surprises harlem had everything but i couldnt find pilates anywhere. 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Neighborhood hubs that provide everything from Mental Health services to food pantries. Academic tutoring to prom dresses. Healthcare to after care. Community schools can wrap so much around public schools. And through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. Real solutions for kids and communities at aft. Org easiest way to reduce sugar the lead with jake tapper. Next on cnn an update now for you on a story that weve been keeping a close eye on a Russian Court has rejected the latest appeal by Wall Street Journal reporter evan gershkovich. He was appealing his pretrial detention on espionage charges. But todays ruling means gershkovich will remain custody until at least june 30th. The white house calling this decision a sham ocess. N, before the hearing began, he made this sture heart with his hands inside a defendants cage in court the 32 yearold was arrested more than a year ago and charged with espionage allegations, denied by gershkovich by the us government, by the Wall Street Journal yeah, hes the first journalists. We should note to be arrested on these kinds of charges since of a cold war and the russian government has yet to actually provide any evidence to support its claim against him yeah, thats right. Its one of those cases weve got to keep watching. I cant believe its gone on this long, but its so important the lead with jake tapper starts right now