Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240704

Pace simmering tensions over taiwan and the South China Sea setting the stage for a catastrophic showdown as the world teeters on the brink of a new era of Warfare Machines Making Life And Death decisions on the battlefield. Will ripley, cnn, taipei and thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now tonight on 360 is surprisingly favorable day for donald trump. The High Court Says he can stay on colorados ballot and every other states to also tonight with most american st. Joe biden is too old to serve four more years. Well talk to a reporter who spoke at length with the president that hell be, hell detail the biden he saw then later some rare reporting inside haiti where armed gangs moved the streets and Civil Society is coming apart at the seams. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for your time. John king sitting in for anderson tonight, we begin with one certain thing. Donald j. Trump will be on the ballot in all 50 states, the Supreme Court today, making it a reality and making history, settling an issue thats been unclear since reconstruction. All nine justices deciding that neither colorado nor any other state can bar him under the 14th amendments section in three insurrection language, quoting from the opinion quote, we conclude that states may disqualify persons holding or attempting to hold state office, but states have no power under the constitution to enforce Section Three with respect to federal offices, especially the presidency. The opinion was per curiam, meaning not attributed to any specific justice. However, in a concurrence that you might say reads more like a dissent. Justices sonia sotomayor, elena kagan, and Ketanji Brown jackson take issue with the rulings broadness, which they suggest is to quote insulate this court and petitioner from future controversy. The petitioner, of course, being donald trump, has for him, he praised the ruling, then pivoted to the courts. Next big decision on president ial immunity when you make a decision, you dont want to have your opposing party or opponent, or even somebody that just thinks youre wrong, bring a criminal suit against you or any kind of a suit when you leave well, since i have that right now, at a level that nobodys ever seen before, i have Rogue Prosecutors and i have rogue judges have judges that are out of control and its a very unfair thing for me keeping them honest. There is, of course, no evidence of Rogue Prosecutors or judges, no matter how many times he says that there are colorado secretary of state, Jenna Griswold also weighing in a bit earlier here on cnn first and foremost, im glad that they issued a decision colorado voters and American Voters all across the country deserve to know whether donald trump is qualified or not as we go into Super Tuesday but in terms of the bigger decision, im disappointed and i also think that the big concern is still there. Donald trump incited the insurrection. He incited that violent mob onto the capital to try to stop the peaceful transfer of president ial power. And he has not stopped his attacks on democracy since then joining us now the michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, whose state Supreme Court back in december rejected an attempt to keep donald trump off the ballot madam secretary, grateful for your time. You did file an amicus brief with the Supreme Court back in january, you took no position as to how the legal issue should be resolved, but you said for the good of democracy foresee, the court should resolve them now and quote, are you satisfied with todays opinion . You get clarity. Did you get what you want it yes, i am. And thanks for having me. I you know, we her in michigan and Election Officials all across the country are fully prepared to do our jobs this year, which is making sure every citizen can vote and that were administered train full, free and fair elections. So that continues. The clarity provided by the court is to affirm what i and the vast majority of my colleagues have also said since the beginning, which is that its inappropriate for any one state to weigh in and make a decisive position. Take a decisive position on such a thorny legal issue. It really is best left to the federal government and the Supreme Court has affirmed that, given us that clarity. So that any state or state courts still wrestling with a question of how to apply Section Three of the 14th amendment. Now has that clarity to declare Donald Trumps eligibility as a candidate in this election. Yet you heard your colleague, your democratic colleague from colorado secretary of state, Jenna Griswold, telling wolf blitzer earlier tonight, while she accepts the courts ruling, she Still Believes individual states should be able to disqualify a president ial candidate from the ballot if theyve deemed that candidate participated in an insurrection, do you agree with her . Ive been doing this a long time and one of the staples of almost 40 years of doing this is the secretaries of state, the chief elections officials, whether youre a democratic republican from a midwestern state as you are the east coast or the west coast, most of them get along and focus on the mechanics of running a free and fair election. Is there a disagreement among your colleagues whether theyre democrats or republicans on this question . Again, i think the vast majority of my colleagues have taken the same position i have, which is that its inappropriate for a State Official to weigh in on this issue. And today, the Supreme Court affirmed that position and said, indeed, in cases like this where the legal and factual issues are not straightforward, the constitution requires they be determined permit at the federal level, not at the state level. And then again, i think on all of this, we have to remember who has the ultimate authority, which is the voters in every state. That again was to me a firm today by giving voters the opportunity to weigh in on who they should hold politically accountable at the ballot box for the issues at stake in this years election. Did it surprise you or did you view it as smart . Justices part that they did not directly address the question of whether donald trump actually engaged in insurrection on, in and around january 6 i was surprised. I was at the Oral Arguments as well and expected as i think many of us did for a lot of the discussion to be focused on the definition of insurrection, the facts in this case. But notably, the court said, look, there are lots of different issues at play, both legal and factual. And the question is really, who is the appropriate authority . What is the appropriate forum . And when is the appropriate time to make these determinations as a legal scholar and a form law dean, i know you have to determine those who and what and when law at the same time perhaps before you get to the substance of the case. And so i wasnt surprised at all by even the unanimity or the per curiam aspect of the decision today. And i was grateful because it showed by issuing it today before Super Tuesday, the court is aware of the importance of both clarity timing in this case. And again, and making sure voters go into this Election Cycle with the clarity of their power to determine the future of our country and upcoming election secretary betsy, grateful for your time on this important day. Thank you so much. With me now to continue the conversation, the bestselling Supreme Court biographer jeffrey toobin, our cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and cardozo law schools. Jessica roth jeff based on the Oral Arguments, not a shock. If you listen to the Oral Arguments, this is where the courts seem to be leaning that day. So we always look for clues, right . Number one, there, unanimous. Thats rare, but thats rare especially for this court. Number two, as the former president noted, theres he noted it in an inaccurate way, but there is the giant question of immunity still looming before the court. Do we get any clues about tomorrow from what we read today . There was a paradox about today, the Supreme Court, they were unanimous, which is in controversial cases unusual in this Supreme Court. However, there were some off justices there. You could just tell from the paper the opinions were written on the three the three justices didnt dissent. The three liberals, but they really went after the five for saying that forgiving a roadmap for how this law should be applied, instead of just saying, look what colorado was was did was wrong. Thats all we should have done. The most interesting opinion was from Amy Coney Barrett, who wrote an opinion agreeing with the three liberals, but saying, can everyone please chill out, saying, can we just like we have a controversial election coming up . Lets not engage in stridency, as she said, i agree with jeff, theres some heated rhetoric in the concurrence, meaning the opinion put out by the three liberals. But i think its important to understand just exactly where the disagreement sits because its really not much of a disagreement when you dig into it. Okay. All nine agreed unanimously. This is not for this states the difference is the thigh and the majority said, congress is in charge of this. And the other four said, well, maybe congress, but maybe other federal authorities, not even clear what that is, but thats the entire base at is a sliver of a disagreement, yet it gets blown up into this almost like World War Three kind of disagree payment, which i think is just doesnt match what the actual substantive disagreement. So as you jump, let me read a little bit here this is i believe Amy Coney Barrett writings on the court should turn the National Temperature down, not up for present purposes are differences are far less important than our unanimity. All nine justices agree on the outcome of this case. Thats the message to americans should take home so as jeff said, shes trying not legal language, but i liked it. Chill everybody. Chill. The question is though what youre looking at this decision about colorado, does it tell us anything even though shes trying to say we should all get along. But two, they give you any clues about how theyre going to deal with immunity. I think it does potentially, and i think that Amy Coney Barretts concurrence was trying to say this is not such a big deal here. Right . We dont need to make such a big fuss about the disagreements here. And i think that the liberal justices were saying that theres actually a lot at stake here. One is that with respect to trump and disqualification, theres actually a lot of significance to what the majority goes ahead and reaches that they didnt need to hear. There really foreclosing other avenues of Adjudicate Hating through Federal Courts, whether or not donald trump engaged in insurrection. And they talk about, for example, somebody who is in some way aggrieved by an action taken by him as an Executive Officer could bring suit to argue in Federal Court that he was disqualified under Section Three of the 14th amendment. So theyre angry that the court is precluding that find them alternative federal adjudication of his ineligibility sorry, i play on the looming immunity point. Heres sort of method a question here of should courts go ahead and reach unnecessary questions or should they narrowly decide the case before them . What i read into that disagreement is what they expect could happen in the immunity in other words, a narrow decision on immunity might hold. There is no immunity for the allegations in this indictment and we dont have to reach anything further, but a broader holding might be under this standard that were going to set forth here today for the first time, a president could be immune from prosecution. And now were going to send it back to the lower courts to apply that standard the facts here, and that would lengthen the proceedings on the Immunity Question such that we would never get to trial before the electorate. Remember what just happened in the Supreme Court. They just granted certiorari on the Immunity Case and theyve put the case on, i would say a fairly slow schedule, which will not quite, but almost guarantee that donald trump will not be tried before the election. It is not out of the question that the three liberal justices were off about that. And i think some of the language you saw, the anger on what is as you would set a relatively minor disagreement suggests that but the court is as polarized as it usually is, even in a unanimous. And so again, thats what fascinates me. As the nonlawyer at the table that liberals are outnumbered. They know that its six to three. There are numbered. So when you see Amy Coney Barrett, the last trump appointee, coming in and saying, lets all try to get along here. But the question is number one, do they take it as genuine . The colleagues or they take it as more of a political argument. But youre always watching robert saved obamacare. Wheres robert is going to . Be . Thats what everyone always asks first. But what about the trump justices . Are we learning anything about her . Is she trying to be more Sandra Day Oconnor or can you figure that out . I i feel like its not going to get better in terms of how theyre all good hang a log. I mean, its just hard math, its 63. And if youre on the liberal side and you want to win, you need to flip to, you need roberts plus one and i, we havent seen that. What weve seen it happening in some cases, but none of the big political cases. And immunity, i really think could be a defining moment here. And i think jessica is right. I think we need to watch out for the possibility that they dont even decided that they send it back down to the trial court, which will completely end any chance of trying it that if they do that is the biggest gift they could give donald trump. Lets, lets be clear about that than anything other than a clear victory for jack smith and the Department Of Justice is a victory for donald trump. E even if they say theres no absolute immunity is trump is asking for clarity. You want clarity i just want to follow the news out to elie honig. Kara. Thank for your time today. Some of the former president s griping that you heard at the top of the program about what he calls rogue judges. May have been about his two new york cases, the civil fraud case he lost, and the upcoming criminal trial later this month, there were new developments connected to both today through the trump organizations, former top finance guy allen weisselberg. And his former attorney, Michael Cohen. Cnns Kara Scannell has been following all those developments and joins us now kara, what do we learn today . Yes. So weisberg, longtime confidant of donald trump, pleaded guilty to two Felony Counts of perjury. This all relates to testimony he gave during the new York Attorney generals civil Fraud Investigation into the trump organization. And when he testified at the trial last year and his false statements relate to testimony about the size of trumps triplex apartment at trump tower. It had been valid for years on the companys Financial Statements as though it was 30,000 square feet. In reality, it was just under 11,000 square feet. One of the statements that weisselberg admitted today that being false was he was asked at the trial and in his deposition whether hed been present when Donald Trumps talked about the size of the apartment, he said he had it. In reality, he had been he was present when trump was talking to reporters from Forbes Magazine about that. So well, weisselberg, under this deal will serve about five months at rikers island. This will be his second trip there because they already served 100 days when he pled guilty in 2022 to 15 counts of tax fraud. Now, importantly, though as part of it theres still despite pressure from the das office, weisselberg is not cooperating against donald trump, so he will not be testifying at the trial later this month involving those hush money payments, despite being at the center of it, both with knowledge of Michael Cohen advancing the payment to Stormy Daniels and then the reimbursement of that money to come in, john, as that plays doubt, the former president s legal team is again going after the manhattan da alvin bragg. What does that about . What they say . Yeah. I mean, this has been a constant point of scrutiny that theyve been putting on bragg saying that this is prosecutorial misconduct, saying that he is essentially picking on allen weisselberg, but not looking at the testimony that Michael Cohen had given both at the trial that same trial . And in other Court Hearing saying that he should be prosecuted, this has come up before prosecutors have said that that is fair game for crossexamination by trumps attorneys at the trial. And that trial that Jury Selection is expected to begin three weeks from today. John, three weeks from today, Kara Scannell. Appreciate those important updates up next. Now that the Supreme Court has taken the Ballot Access off the table well look closer at the campaign itself, some troubling new polling for the incumbent president and how tomorrow Super Tuesday primaries could come close to clinching the Delegate Math for donald trump. And later, you dont want to ms this our david culver inside haiti, torn by Gang Violence and now under a State Of Emergency right in the middle of this three here readings happen yeah, thats not good happens huge things happened happened. There with three learn more at rnc dot okay . Foreigners coming in, starting a business is never easy. The star in a eight months pregnant, thats a different story i couldnt slow down. We were starting a business on the ground people were showing up, left and right. And so did our business needs. They chased a car, made it easy when you go for Something Big like this, your kids seed it and they believe they can do the same burna unlimited 1. 5 cashback on every purchase with the chase, inc. 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The state of the Union Address thursday night. Yes. Its the first week of march, early in the primary season, but the path of those primaries so far plus some new polling over the weekend and into this new week. Are turning the conversation already more and more to the likelihood of a biden trump fall. Rematch. Lets look at where we are and then some of the numbers. Number one, some contests over the weekend as well now have the former president , 247 delegates takes 1,200 plus 1,215 to win, but he is on a path right there. You see the light gray states. Those are all the Super Tuesday states tomorrow, a lot more primaries. Thatll trump cat mathematically clinch tomorrow, but he can get really close by the end of tomorrow night if he continues his big run, the democrats also are voting. Let me just bring this up here and show this as well. You bring up the democratic side of this and Super Tuesday will flip it over here to the primaries like this. President biden, 206 to uncommitted delegates so far, he has also on a path to renomination and well get very close tomorrow night as all those delegates come in, which brings in now, where are we assuming trump and biden continue their path to the nomination . Where are this is our cnn poll of polls. Forgive me for turning my back. I just wanted to bring this up a little larger, 48 for trump, 46 for biden. That is no clear leader. If you look at some of the late individual polls that go into this average, trump has been running little bit stronger. But if you average them all together, which is the smart thing to do, dont overinvest in any one poll. No clear leader, but trump has clearly been gaining a little bit of steam as we go forward. Why is he gaining steam while these are the numbers that are troubling for the president. Heres one from the new, New York Times, Sienna College poll is President Biden too old to be an effective president among all voters, 73 say yes, 25 say no. Heres the troubling part, even in his own party, president Needs Big Democratic turnout in the fall. More than half, 56 of democrats say they think hes too old to be an effective president. 43 say no, so that is one challenge for the president as he runs out the primary season he gives that big speech. Thursday night address that the problems are deeper for the president to can he is the incumbent president 24 of americans say the countries on the right track, twothirds, twothirds. Say it is not 65 , say the country is on the wrong track is the president prepares to deliver his state of the Union Address. One more incumbents are often jarring judge, by their approval rating. You start to get eight months out from an election. Thats a problem. Thats a problem thats the number the president has to change 36 approve of his performance right now in office, 61 disapprove. That means a lot of democrats, if 61 disapprove, that means democrats as well. So lets have a conversation about where we are in the primary calendar state of the union and beyond. Lets bring in our cnn political commentator theres van jones and Margaret Hoover also joining us, the former democratic president ial candidate, Democratic National Committee Chairman and the governor or vermont howard dean, governor, i want to start with you. You know what its like to give a state of state address. You know, the president s weaknesses and youll understand campaigns what does the president , if you could tell the president to do one thing right now, whether its addressed the age issue you are the wrong track issue. What would you do i joke about the age issue and i talked about as unbelievable record, this is a guy whos got the strongest domestic policy record since Lyndon Johnson ironically, most of the jobs hes created are going to the very states the rural states that vote against him, which is insane to me. I think he just has to do doing very good job and give a very good speech. And these more than capable of doing that so van for followup and the governor, if you look deeply into the New York Times Sienna College poll, heres one of the things you look at a politician. So what am i getting here, right . We live in a transactional world, right . So 40 of registered voters said trumps policies helped them personally only 18 say bidens policies helped them personally. Governor dean just said hes got the greatest record since Lyndon Johnson why the disconnect . Very simple. Those covid checks. People remember that i actually got some money directly and so thats that becomes a part of peoples memory and also, people forgot a whole bunch of the bad things that happened during the trump years because covid was difficult and inflation was difficult. Now, thats starting to heal, but people still have that memory of those those cockpit checks. Look, i think biden has an important job to do not only to talk about his record as governor said, but what hes going to do, Going Forward the prices are coming down, everything but food and housing. So hes got to show hes willing to fight on the food prices, got to fight the Grocery Store liquid gouge the American People at the cash register. Hes got a push on the fair to get these Housing Prices down, to get the Interest Rates down, it actually is going to be fighting for what ordinary people are dealing with every day. And then didnt get back in his fight. Well, we count the votes tomorrow night. Trump cant clench, but he can get really close yet, if you look at some of the past states so its the glass three quarters full or onequarter empty, i guess i would ask if nikki haley keeps getting 20 , 30 , 40 is that what youre looking for . Can there is the president addressing his weaknesses . The former president . Addressing his weaknesses on nikki haley keeps addressing donald trump, says much to his own chagrin and look, shes clearly made some kind of a calculation with her campaign about what staying competitive means, both to her internally and then to our donors. Because frankly, this is literally a question of whether that staying competitive question is salient for the people who continue to fund the campaign to go beyond Super Tuesday to the next round of states and beyond and beyond. And how, how far, how much does she have to win tomorrow in order for them to continue to fund this effort that well, im fully supportive at the republican alternative to donald trump. Has always felt somewhat implausible and has always rested on some kind of strategy that wasnt clear beyond a hope and prayer. But what shes back in South Carolina tomorrow, the expectation is if she doesnt have a surprise and when a couple of states that she will say enough, is that your expectation that that is not my hope and im im living on open a prayer. But that maybe maybe what happens, governor de euro, grassroots guy, you like to go out and work the streets. Youd like to organize, you get things going. So i want your perspective. You talked about joke about the age, talk about your accomplishments ive been traveling a lot and i think you have a point about some of the policies, but the thing that strikes me is the Visibility Issue a lot of people think where is the precedent . Why hasnt he been out more . Youre still in touch with people around the country who, as you, when youre organizing days, both as a candidate of the dnc, how much of it is that that people want to see an energetic president in their state, in their community, or how much of it is he just needs to better explain what he got the congress to pass a couple of years because this is the frustrating part. This is where ill redox to blame the media . The media is fascinated with donald trump. They created donald trump and they cant stay away from because they want the clicks, no matter what the clicks and this is, im not just talking about television, im talking about the New York Times. Look at their coverage of trump. Its an outrage every day his people love it the truth is, biden has been all over the place and he just doesnt get the same coverage because hes got a charlatan and an entertainer and a crook and all the things that people like to write about. It it is really, really frustrating. And the other part of course is on social media, theres no editors. So the more clicks more coverage and it doesnt matter what the clicks are about. So thats the frustrating part about this bidens a quality guy, and hes performed very, very well. Hes not getting the credit for it because trump understands entertainment and biden does it and the media is false for it every time. And so to the American People, theres a lot of americans out there who have no idea what the biden has accomplished and they have a lot of ideas about trump, most of which are wrong you agree with that, youre also an organizer guy. I talked to you when ive come back to some of my trips and go doorknocking in milwaukee and you have a 70 somethingyearol d black woman say, i may not vote . Yeah because i dont think it matters anymore. Who specifically asked where its the precedent . Yeah. Look, i a little bit different from the governor in that first of all this gaza thing is weighing him down. He does a part of that. Those numbers that you see our young people, especially theyre just dismayed by what theyre seeing in gaza. Thats real. I also think he hasnt done as many interviews i certainly governors correct that hes been out there more than it gets credit for but hes done fewer interviews and you would expect for a president. And i think those things heard him. I think he can turn around, i think right now, a lot of democrats are in denial that hes even going to be our nominee. But once i think its clear that he is there going to go from being in denial to being determined that trump not win. But right now, this is real and i think i think theyve got deal with it. So if the incumbent president President Biden has to deal with you, try to bring Younger Voters back, try to get the base rallied up. Another big target would obviously be anybody voted for nikki haley and the primary is that what you would do if youre working the Biden Campaign . Absolutely. Take all your money and resources and say, okay, 40 of them are not going to vote for joe biden. But if you can get if in a state like new hampshire, a state like pennsylvania, you can give three or 4 of them bingo, especially if youre running hang on, democracy in defending democracy, dont want the broadest possible coalition of voters to join, join with you. And thats disaffected republicans of which theres at least a good 25 , perhaps a third, by the way. And thats just the primaries wait until we get to the governor respectfully says weve been spending a lot of time on donald trump well, you just wait until this is really at two candidate race. I think the scrutiny will come with donald trump in an all new way that actually will probably play unfavorably for donald trump. I will just say one more thing. This sienna poll shows that unquestionably the Republican Party is not picking a winner if they picked donald trump because it is fundamentally clear that if nikki haley with republican candidate she would be able to be donald trump or whoever the democratic candidate were. You also see, ill give the governor this point. That we focus. Hes the incumbent president , so we focus more on the bad numbers for him. Theres a bad numbers for donald trump and that pause while youre absolutely right about that. Van jones, Margaret Hoover, governor dean, appreciate your time tonight. Coming up. Well continue this conversation and dive into an extended newly released interview. President biden granted the new yorker the reporter, evan osnos joins us to explain why the president believes only he can beat donald trump americas choice 2024. Countdown to Super Tuesday. Hes brought to you by voice. 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With deep policy knowledge. Katie porters housing plan has bipartisanfriendly ideas to bring Homebuilding Costs down. And the chronicle praises her ideas to end soft corruption in politics. Lets shake up the senate. With democrat katie porter. Im katie porter and i approve this message. Future of soda is now and its called poppy tomorrow, its Super Tuesday, 16 races one consequential day and no one can read to you like cnn in the best Political Team Super Tuesday special coverage begins tomorrow at 06 00 p. M. On cnn and streaming on max President Biden says hes about to prove all of a snarky pundits and all the democratic handwringing is wrong. Again, in an interview with the new yorker the president takes a defiant tone it says he is in the 2024 race because he believes he is best positioned to beat the former president donald trump. Biden spoke with reporter evan osnos, who has Written A Biography Of The 46th president that interview taking place in midjanuary. The article, joe bidens last campaign is a wide ranging interview that also covers the president s opinions on the economy. Israel ukraine, and more. This is how osnos describes their conversation about the november election and concerns among democrats about bidens viability, quote, given the doubts i asked, wasnt it a risk to say, im the one to do it . He shook his head and said no, im the only one who has ever beat him and ill beat him again for biden the offense of the contested election was clearly personal. Joining me now, evan osnos, in addition to that biography of the president , his latest book is on the deep divisions here in the United States is titled wildland, the making of americas fury. Evan, grateful for your time. I want to get to some of the specifics in a minute, but not everybody gets to spend a lot of time with the problem president around the oval office. So you had that unique access. You also have spent a lot of time with him over the years. Then youre back with him after not seeing him for a while for Something Like this. What just jumped out at you being in the presence of him, how is he different physically . How is he different temperamentally, and how pumped was he on this question of he says, i can beat him again yeah. What struck me, john, one of the first things he did when i got there to the oval office was he said, let me show you where donald trump sat and watched the revolution that was his term to describe the events of january 6, he walked me over to the oval Office Dining room, which is back in the private chambers there, which of course is where the select Committee Says that Donald Trumps spent that afternoon. What the reason i mentioned that is one of the first things he did was he wanted in his own way, he was thinking about donald trump. You cannot talk about joe biden right now and his State Of Mind without thinking about trump, look on a physical level, he is slower. It is movements in his gestures. No question about it. His mind seemed unchanged to me. He didnt bungle it day or a name or anything like that. I was looking to see any signs of that. What struck me most of all, john, was that he was in a defiant State Of Mind. He is in some ways hes looking to make a case for himself now. The point you made is actually instructive if you read the entire article and i urge people to in detail, just interviewed the president. You have a wide ranging conversation with democratic strategists and other experts around there. You talk about the first thing you did to show you where donald trump watch january 6. So they believe democracy, trump and democracy trump and democracy trump and democracy. Thats what they believe inside the white house. Your article into print before this latest New York Times sienna poll. But youve seen the polling the president s Job Performance is way underwater views on the economy, right track, wrong track are very bad for an incumbent president. So how does what he says square with those numbers . Or does he just think theyre not real . On some level, there is a lot of suspicion in the white house about polling. I think there is a feeling that over the last few years, even going back to 2016, that polls have shown themselves to be unreliable partly in the age of the cell phone look, it tends to be that candidates who are not leading in the polls tend to question the polls. There is more specificity this city to their concerns, jen omalley dillon, who is an influential aid around the president working for the campaign. She says, we dont believe that these favorability polls line up exactly with what people actually do in the ballot box. Look, thats a controversial statement, john, you know, some democrats will disagree with that. Some will agree with it. The whats interesting is that thats what they believe if youre trying to understand and their strategy thats one of the insights that gives you a feel for why they are not more ruffled than other democrats, maybe over the years, he has bristled and his team has bristles that the idea that joe biden is not a president ial contender, and he did lose twice, but then he won. So when they hear a lot of this, they call it bedwetting, they call it people whove been under fan them and their team. I want to focus on the president specifically because its very rare for somebody to get extended time as you did with the president. Hes aware of what people are saying about him. What did he tell you . You know, interestingly, john, theres a kind of deepseated element of joe biden that runs all the way back to his childhood, which is that he feels like he has always been out to try to prove the doubters wrong. We sometimes talk about his stutter. You cannot understand this guy without understanding how much that is an imprint on everything he does in politics even today at the age of 81, that he is alert to the sense that he has defied the predictions more than once and then more recently defied them in 2020 defied them in 22, i should say in the midterms when democrats outperformed divide them in 23, theres an edge to him, john, honestly, that was one of the things that really struck me. He is over the years there was a kind of a jolly quality about joe biden. There were moments of that still there, but there is a sense of conviction that hes doing something that is very personal for him. This is partly, we sometimes say that donald trump stole the election. Well, he stole it from donald from jet, from joe biden. I should say. I mean, that is really on some level, one of the elements that is going on in the background and joe biden is not somebody who wants to be pushed aside. That is very clear feeling and it is very present in his conversation. You mentioned january 6 and the president using the term revolution. What our president s, well, how did, how did he articulate his biggest concerns and the case he wants to make against trump yeah, i have to tell you one thing that was very striking to me was he said, i am prepared for the fact that this man is going to contest this result. He said losers who lose are never grateful, are never graceful when theyre losing. That is a big idea, meaning that he is prepared for the idea that we could have Somebody Contesting the election in 24 as we did in 20, i think its worth pausing on just considering the full implications of that. Hes gonna be making this case to americans over the course of the next several months, there is a deep feeling among his advisers that the offense of january 6, that on some level, it is still something that deeply collides with our sense of what it means to be in American Politics that we dont do violence in politics, and that he thinks that as we get closer to election day, that idea will take on greater and greater salience significance in peoples mind. Thats a political bet. Its a part of a message its revealing to us to know that thats one of the things that they believe is significant evan osnos appreciate its a fascinating interview and a greater broader piece there. Nice to keep that as you watch the next several months play out, well see if the baseline the president lays out. So stands the test of time having thanks for your time tonight. 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Be heard be hopeful. Bu Super Tuesday coverage begins tomorrow at 06 00 p. M. On cnn and streaming on max State Department told cnn today that the us embassy in haiti remains open a day after a State Of Emergency was declared, that State Of Emergency declared when thousands of inmates escaped from haitis largest prison. Meantime, protestors have demanded the ouster of the Prime Minister ariel henry, who reneged on elections in the wake of the precedents assassination more than twoandahalf years ago so Prime Ministers whereabouts are uncertain. Cnns david culver is just back from haiti and has this harrowing report so were like a block away. Yeah. Its as close as we can get driving. So we layer up and walk yeah i already smell it. Look at people, just still making their commute tires. Are burning right in the middle of this street here no police barricade, know firefighters, most seemingly unfazed. These flames hes had been burning for several hours. Haiti has been engulfed in turmoil for years we dont have a honig on live and we dont thats what theyre shouting. Many here now fear their country is on the brink of exploding feel safe right now. No, no, no . It does my god, please broken like now these folks blame the current government and Prime Minister. Are we alone . Mri appointed following the assassination of president Jovenel Moise in 2021. They want henri to go, but he says hes not yet ready to step down this as panicked street shootouts like this one have become a near daily occurrence. Its often a clash between police and the gangs which have essentially taken haiti hostage they flaunt their weapons and wealth on tiktok, threatening police and basking in lawlessness many residents now living behind barricades this is not the gangs doing this. The folks that live in these neighborhoods who are putting these up to prevent gangs from coming in and kidnapping using what . Ever might stop or slow the kidnappers. Efforts to protect families and preserve innocence. That innocence shattered for others, this 14 yearold says he was recruited by a gang at 11 it tells me hes often forced to burn the bodies of those killed by other gang members. Lungs. Thats three things. I want to change my way of life. He says, with a heavy load of shame at an Early Morning food distribution. We meet dozens of women who have felt the wrath of Gang Violence at times, we notice a loss there in their eyes. All of them had been so theres nobody here was not going to pick this woman sister shot and killed. This one hes husband burned alive inside their home. This woman tells us she was raped. She shows us the marks left behind. In recent months, gangs have seized more and more control over this country including the roads leading to portauprince officials estimate that gangs now control as much as 80 of the capital evenly the us embassy and International Airport are mostly surrounded by rival gang territories. Its led the Haitian National police to create an undercover unit. We go with to the front lines. This unit actually goes into gang areas, looks for gang members and fights them. The officers asked us not to reveal our exact location and they tell us to work quickly given were standing exposed on a windy hill side as police have described it to me, basically everything behind me is occupied by the gangs. Its under their control their homes all around us. Were standing on the foundation of one home there have been abandoned they offered to drive as closer. And you can see theyre getting ready . Yes, our drivers on geared up now ready for potential gunfire that come . Our way . Stay away from the windows as we come in here. They described this as the last defensive point. And beyond here is what they consider to be there front line from here, you can see the battlefield signs of any suspected gang members. For now, police are not the only ones trying to gain the upper hand here in a fractured state, alternatives to the gangs and government surface were headed demeter commander of b sap, haitis Armed Environmental Protection Agency that has splintered from the Ovary Government challenging its legitimacy. We pull up to a gated compound the man and the purple shirt leads us in event changes into his be samp, a uniform. Its the commander. Hes in hiding from police. His message echoes the antigovernment protester putting ovalis show. He flexes be sap Strength In Numbers and its potential to help bring stability but when it comes to his own family, you mentioned you have four kids. What do you think . Their future is in this country he fears their future is best served, leaving haiti the desperation has felt beyond portauprince in places like jeremy, the un chopper is the safest way to get there. Its about an hour ride members of the World Food Programme take us through this rural coastal community, devastated by recent protests. Right back there, you had to five people were killed last week right there. It was right there. Yeah. Yeah. We arrive at this agricultural consortium, the wfp buys food from these local farmers to then handout. But the recent protests have blocked Distribution Efforts leaving some food despoil. Its frustrating for the wfp officials as they know, you dont have to look far to find hunger here. These Farmers Point mean to their stomachs, lifting their shirts to us. We are hungry a lot of folks will look at haiti and theyll say its hard to issues for so long. The question no doubt people in the us will ask is, well, why should we help while there are two reasons why you need to help . First of all, theyre on humanitarian grounds. But then theres also her only selfinterest in the us. So the longer you wait to act on haiti the more migrants there will be on our southern border. Its that simple many here search for normal seat, where they cant even with the threat of buyer islands missing mass for some is not an option. They wear their sunday best, unite in prayer places of worship or not immune from gang tear. They leased out for a moment of tranquility and hope for now. David culver joining us out sad sad but fascinating reporting david, how to haitians feel about the question of International Intervention and is it clear what form that might could take in the shortterm . So in the immediacy, john, its likely to look like 1,000 Kenyan Police officers. It would be deployed any day now to haiti. And we know late last week, Prime Minister ariel henry was in kenya and he signed that agreement. But that is part of what fueled this most recent outbreak and has the seen this surge in violence really get out of control . The folks on the ground that we spoke with, they dont want afford force there in fact, a lot of them would come up to us angry that the us, canada, france are supporting these Multinational Security forces with finances theyre not contributing troops, but they say even contributing to funding is something that they dont want to see. Instead, they hope to have the stability through elections. The question john is, how do you create that . Lets stable climate without eradicating the gangs and then how do you eradicate the gangs without bringing in the forces to do that, it remains unknown and until now it looks like haiti like that foreman said will be a broken state and its the folks on the ground that people there that are paying the price, the price every single day. David culver appreciate that fascinating reporting up next for us, some Breaking News Email and Text Messages reveal the new details on the scope of the fake electors plot and how it continued . Yes. 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Its time to sink or swim, rot the block is premiering right now, only on hgtv some Breaking News now, Text Messages and emails made public as part of a lawsuit show that Kenneth Chesebro, the attorney who helped come up with the trump campaigns fake electors plot, kept proposed opposing ways to overturn the 2020 election. Yes. Even after the january 6 capitol attack, cnns zach cohen joins us with the details x. So what was Kenneth Chesebro up to after after january 6, yes. John, weve known that can chesebro is qualified as the architect of the fake electors plot and the lead up to january 6. But were now learning that he continued to beat that drum after the violence the us capitol on january 6. And i want to read this text message from him to that he sent to another trump lawyer from wisconsin two days after the us capitol riot. He says vince. Of the last two days, open up legal options. The states for winning rulings favorable to trump. He then goes on to say that maybe they could revisit some of the past petitions that they were trying to use to overturn the 2020 election in trumps favor, he then pitches a variety of different ideas. Ideas that would have gotten other people in legal hot water. And this runs counter to what hes told State Prosecutor peter interviewed in almost a dozen states now about his role in the fake electors plot. And his attorney described himself as Somebody Just trying to give legal advice to donald trump into the white house as they sought to legally challenge the outcome. We now know he was way more intimately involved and not just the leadup january 6, but in the days afterwards and so what else was revealed in these Text Messages and emails say about chesbros actions and whereabouts on january 6 . Yeah. John, i mean, of all the people that jack smith, the special counsel, has identified as trumps coconspirators and trying to overturn the 2020 election chesebro might be the only one who actually showed up to the us capitol on january 6. These Text Messages include selfies, where he took selfies with conspiracy theorist alex jones at the us capitol on the same day that the riot happened. And look, even bragged at one point about being able to whiff tear gas that was fired at protesters in the us capitol in the de highlighted in his proximity to the action that was going on so it really does call into question again, chesebro description of themselves as just a lawyer trying to give legal advice to a president , trying to challenge the outcome, and maybe more as an activist and somebody who is really trying to push his own desires in his own agenda through his role as a lawyer and what legal jeopardy its just that lawyer face right now as we know, chesebro has already pled guilty in georgia, where fani willis, the da there is investigating efforts to overturn the Election Results hes an Unindicted Coconspirator in jack smiths indictment of donald trump. Im told that the feds, the federal investigators have not reached back out to chesebro since he informed them he was gonna take a plea deal georgia is interviewed with again by about five different State Prosecutors in his time since taking a plea deal. So ramp to see, but lying to State Prosecutors or not b