You numb thats right. His thunder loves soda again the whole story with Anderson Cooper sunday getty on cnn tonight, too big and important headlines out of michigan joe biden and donald trump win. But the numbers hint that they are both well wounded away they can cost them the presidency. Welcome to cnn special coverage. Im laura coats and Washington Dc and im abby phillip in new york, the 2024 president ial matchup looks more and more locked in tonight. Donald trump winning michigans republican primary, and joe biden winning michigans Democratic Primary. But both are showing real weaknesses with voters that they will need come november for joe biden, are voters just mad about his handling of the war in gaza or are they mad enough to stay home when it matters most well for donald trump, you can ask the very same question, abby, will republicans coalesce around his campaign . In november . Or will the third of the party who keep voting for someone not named donald trump to affect to the incumbent abby, lets go straight to harry enten at the magic wall for the latest from michigan. So harry, what are we seeing so far where are we are in this process . About 41 in right now as we hit a level mcleod, yeah, a little bit of a slow count here, but look, donald trump way up on nikki haley, 67 , nikki haleys 28 . You can see the map here. Its all donald trump red. Of course there are some areas where donald trump is struggling a bit more. Lets go all the way down. Lets see if i can hit it. There we go. This is where ann arbor, the university the of michigan is well educated area. You can see here a much closer race, 52 of the vote to 43 of vote, about 86 of the vote in. But look how few votes there are, relatively speaking, only about 23,000. And if you were to zoom out, lets say well go well go up to the northern peninsula, right . Lets go up here. Lets go up here to Chippewa County look at this. You see a much wider margin, 78 , 18 . We can go over here to mackinac county, again, 73 to 22 . So a very clear win for donald trump and harry. I mean, i want to just underscore what you just said there. What you were just showing was sort of excerpt county. This is a part of michigan. The suburbs detroit suburbs of lansing, suburbs of grand rapids. Suburban voters. Thats where hes going to struggle the most. And thats exactly right. Why dont we go to kent county, right . Gerald ford, kent county, again, 26 of the vote and donald trump, again doing more poorly there with 56 of vote to nikki haleys 36 of one other thing i just want to point on the Rub Public Inside Abby is, you know, weve had a bunch of contests so far, you know, a michigan right now, were seeing trump doing very, very well. Hes doing better there than he did in South Carolina. And hes doing better there then certainly he did in New Hampshire where you only got 54 of the vote. So this is Donald Trumps best night of the campaign so far with nikki haley, also on the ballot in a state and harry, what about the democrats . Whats happening on the democratic side . Weve been looking very closely at this uncommitted vote. Where is this number headed . Yeah, 41,000 at this 0. 41014 , i will note that barack obama, when he was back on the ballot in 2012, He Uncommitted in the michigan primary it was 11 . So this is doing slightly better than that. But not overwhelmingly better. Lets go back down here. Lets go back down to ann arbor, right . This is a place where with 53 of the vote uncommitted, its doing significantly better. 21 of the vote. And you go back to 2020. This was a place where joe biden really struggled. Bernie sanders got 45 of the vote, and that primary despite the fact that he only got 36 of the vote statewide. So the fact that its doing better in those welleducated, liberal areas, but its not necessarily doing significantly better outside. And you know, you go to, lets say, again, the northern part of the state, what do we see here . We see 14 for uncommitted and less liberal area. We see it again, a Peter Iron County 11 . So its really doing basically the same across the state. Were not seeing that Big Uncommitted vote as you might expect, if liberals were really upset about gaza, this just seems to be light and 43,000 is more than tHe Uncommitted candidates or campaigns said that they would get democratic source. I talked to you tonight, said it could be well over 100,000 that would be enough to send a message to joe biden in a state that he won by 150,020, 20. He didnt he want it by less than three percentage points, but again, i will point out joe biden getting 80 of the vote, while if you look on the republican side, Donald Trumps getting just set 67 vote so as that intro sort of hinted at both candidates have their own weaknesses. Absolutely. I mean, this is a pretty big chunk of the republican electorate right now, sending a message to donald trump, harry enten. Thank you very much, laura thank you. I want to bring in the Campaign Manager now of the movement behind tonights uncommitted vote. Listen to michigan layla elabed, who is also michigan congresswoman rashida tlaib, sister. Im so glad that you are here with us to night. First of all, i wonder what your reaction to tonights turnout is. And did you you send the message that you were hoping to send to President Biden i mean, we are just overwhelmed by the fact that we were able to triple our margin of victory of the original 10,000 votes that we were hoping to leverage to send a clear theyre in strong message to president joe biden, his administration, and the Democratic Party that we needed a permanent ceasefire now to save as many palestinian lives as possible in a leyla President Biden, as you know, in recent days, he said that israels response in gaza has been quoting him over the top. He said just yesterday that hes hoping for a ceasefire by the end of this weekend what more do you need to hear from him specifically to go from Uncommitted To committed to voting for him or is the concern that all of this is lip service or an Election Year yeah. We need more than just nice words and hope. We need a permanent ceasefire right now. At different times with the new york times, you had mentioned this and you said the very bare minimum that biden needs to do to get the vote is to completely overhaul americas relationship with israel. Demand a permanent end to hostilities and end American Military aid to Israel Police as long as its war in gaza drags on. Do you think that he would likely try to meet those expectations or are there some concessions electorally that you would see . I think if joe biden wants to avoid a nail alienating his core base and his core constituency. He will listen to tHe Uncommitted vote now and realize that he is going to be at risk. Come november for handing essentially handing the white house over to trump. And hes going to be to be accountable to that . We went today, we voted michiganders use their ballot box as a humanitarian vote, as a protest vote to demand that our government and our president call for an immediate and permanent ceasefire, an end the military funding of our american taxpayer dollars commit a genocide in 2024 helped me follow this thread in terms of what would be the next frontier lets assume that he does not meet the expectations as youve laid out or what youve just described does that mean that the supporters of your particular uncommitted movement is going to either going to stay home, will they vote for donald trump . Well what i can say is this is that tHe Uncommitted voters are not going to be voting in a monolith they are going to have to vote their conscience there are going to be groups, voters within this movement that already feel deeply betrayed by biden and his administration for the fact that Muslim Americans and every americans have been directly affected by israels aggression and collective punishment of palestinians and not only that, as democrats, we feel betrayed. Because why are we risking our democracy to align ourselves with someone Like Netanyahu . It has rightwing government the idea and you are correct to describe the absence of a monolith when youre talking about any voting bloc that people often will look to it. Ill be curious to see what ultimately it will be the decision of those voters voting their conscience, voting what they want. I want to mention that President Biden just released a statement thanking michigan but did not mention tHe Uncommitted whats your response i think that that is negligent on behalf of the president to once again, alienate the voices of his core constituency, largely who put him in support, who put him in the white house in 2020. Because this community largely supported biden based on the promises that he made during his campaign trail. And we know that trump is not a friend to our community and we know that he is not a friend to the antiwar protests hes fire community. But right now, we are appealing to joe biden as our president to act now. Before he risks losing his core constituency come november. But i want to focus on that. What does that mean to lose the core constituencies that mean that although you just said that because its you and see knows that donald trump is not a friend that causes that you describe. Does that mean that the couch is now the Third Party Candidate that means that we are we need to save as many palestinian israeli lives as possible and that we, this is a humanitarian vote. This is beyond politics. We, within the Ceasefire Movement, and we use our ballot box as a protest vote in order to save as many lives as possible. And to end this unchecked and unconditional funding that the United States provided provides to israel to commit genocide using american taxpayer dollars the signal and the message thats being sent to President Biden. I do wonder if knowing that he has not mentioned the constituency of uncommitted, whether the message has been received but what about donald trump, who obviously is also looking at this, wondering if this will inert to his benefit at this point in time although the policy is adopted all trump, but he has professed and articulated, are those an improvement to what the Biden Administration is doing now like i said, i cant answer to every voter who voted Uncommitted Today. But what i can say is we use the primary as a way to tell joe biden his administration what we needed right now. Were not focused right now. Whats going to happen in november, but what we do know is that voters are going to vote their conscience. And i dont know if voters will be able to pull their support behind a president that is complicit in genocide. As far as trump, i really, you know, i cant answer to every uncommitted voter, but i do know is that we dont expect our voters in michigan to stay at home we do expect and we encourage our, our voters to come out and vote. And there are plenty important races that are going to be taking place in november, besides the president ial election. Very true. Thank you so much. Clearly, the Voter Turnout has been there and a message has been sent. What will come next . Thank you so much, layla elabed, Abby Fascinating interview, laura, thank you. Lets turn to the panel here in new york. Weve got republican strategist alice stewart, former white house senior policy adviser, ashley allison, former senior White House Communications aide, Jamal Simmons and National Political reporter for the new york times, astead herndon. Ashley message sent perhaps message received because it seems like tonight that the story that you just heard theyre being told from the Ceasefire Campaign is being told over and over again. That is the conversation theyve wanted one i think its great that people are engaging in this primary and in this democracy. I think the most important thing is you go out and vote in a primary. You care about whats happening in this country and that in a whole is a good thing. I think that the Biden Campaign will need to assess, but its not just the campaign and sit administration because theyre the ones actually dictating the policy here. I think that they should really consider coming out. Now, biden said a couple days ago that he thinks is his buyer could come towards the end of the week if that doesnt happen, they might want to consider coming out in full force and actually saying it is time for a ceasefire. And that is not just saying it is time for a ceasefire for israel, it is time on both sides. This is not your time, hamas too. But to rally your troops to go and attack israel again, hamas and israel, you need a ceasefire and we need to get the hostages back. I think that after that in this moment right now, i would urge the campaign not to lead with the alternative was donald trump. That is not resonating with people they know what the alternative that seems to be aware what the alternative is. Their community was the first, some of the first people to be attacked by donald trump. I talked to one of tHe Uncommitted voters earlier and he said to me, or she said to me we voted for donald trump because we want it something different. And now we are telling joe biden, we want him to be different. And if he isnt, we will make us decision about who we vote. Mean they voted for joe biden miscues me. They voted for joe biden because they want it done. Right. So heres heres my question. I mean, ashley makes the observation she thinks maybe were getting close to a time where joe biden needs to endorse a ceasefire would that be enough for arab muslim voters in michigan based on your reporting . I mean, not a singularly, and i think thats partially because the political damage, as we see tonight, has been laid over a set of months. These are folks who are been consistently calling for the president to be more vocal on this issue its due to lead or to even acknowledge the consistency of the criticism. And they have chosen not to do those things. I think that if even if there were to be a ceasefire, you still see lingering kind of a holdover feelings. I think feed into a larger perception of biden as out of touch with the base. Now that is expressed here among there, but Muslim Community thats expressed among young people among the different way doesnt surprise among black voters in a different way, but its a larger feeling of a disconnect between but between administration and base by two things, the political question is connected to the Policy Question here, right . Like they were using the system to make a statement about what the Biden Campaign is doing right now in terms of its Support Connection to israel. And i think the biggest critical political factor here is what do they need next on the policy front . And if there is a messaging question, can they find themselves responding to the expression of pain that these folks are consistently telling them theres a separate way as an aside from endorsing a ceasefire that they can speak to these communities and they havent chosen to do that so far. Yeah, look, this is the crux of the question. I mean as somebody who worked in the white house, when you hear what a leyla elabed just said, which was not just a ceasefire. They want the end of us aid to israel. That would be the equivalent of a category five hurricane hitting us Foreign Policy lets see. Byd isnt even possible to, for biden to deliver on that i dont think anybody in the white house is thinking about changing our entire relationship with israel, right israels democracy in the middle east. So weve got allies keep are looking at the United States to see if we stand by. Our allies are signals to china and russia. This is a very complex conversation i think whats interesting about the votes tonight, as im watching this, a couple of things. One, you see what these boats are coming from washington county, which is basically ann arbor, which is university of michigan. Im seeing a lot of very highly Information Voters who were there. You see dearborn, dearborn heights. Im from michigan. Dearborn. Dearborn heights. Lot of arab Arab American, palestinian the un American Voters who are, it looks like that number is like way overwhelming. And that makes a lot of sense, right . That thats where it should come from. Now, whats not happening is i was on the phone with some of my low information voter relatives in the last 24 hours. And i said, how do you feel about being uncommitted . Uncommitted to what . There are African Americans who are in the city of detroit, which are a big chunk of the biden vote, who arent there. But will be much more concerning to me because this is a little bit of a low risk protest because the Democratic Primary you actually, voting for donald trump. If you vote for uncommitted, its a different question when you get to the fall well, what would have been more concerning is that these voters voted for dean phillips. Now, if these voters have voted for dean phillips, there would be our fire alarm inside the white house right now and everybody would be out of that building and theyd be out in the Campaign Making this thing happen. And then look, ill let you jump in definitely. But donald trump right now is battling bring back nikki haley you know, by 2030 points, joe biden is still winning by a very comfortable margin and to jamals point, dean phillips, the guy whos actually running against him cant get beyond 5 . But thats not going to change and jamal saying this is a lowrisk protests, it is. Look, i think this is not exactly a profile encouraged when youre encouraging people to go out and vote uncommitted. And i primary. Now if they really wanted to send the message to joe biden, they would take this all the way through november and say that were going to do a protest vote or sit on the couch in november, theyre not going to do that. And she mentioned that in our conversation with laura. But if they were to carry this through november for this would be a huge concern for joe biden. Look, those numbers were seeing right now, 46,000 michigan people voted uncommitted. That thats a significant number in 2020 election. Joe biden beat donald trump by around 150,000 in 2016, Hillary Clinton lost to donald trump by around ten in thousands. So 10,000 votes could sway the difference if these uncommitted voters keep this passion going through to november, it could be a huge warning sign and a big problem for joe biden. Im not certain theyre going to do so, but we heard also from Debbie Dingell congresswoman from michigan earlier. She has been sounding the alarm to this Administration Quite some time. We have to address the situation. The arab Muslim Community in michigan is crying out for this. And the younger community in michigan is doing so as well. If he is going to really address this situation, he needs to do something much more serious than throwing out up possibility of a ceasefire in an ice cream shop. It must be much more organized and it has to include a ceasefire and releasing the hostages. I mean, what happens on the ground is incredibly consequential. Worth noting though Debbie Dingell has been sounding the alarm even before this, so it could be issues compounded on one another. Everyone stick around for us. Laura, really so fascinating to think about the risk and the lowrisk or not were going to discuss the results on the republican side next though. And why donald trump, while hes also showing some vulnerabilities plus a showdown really is brewing over the issue that Many Democrats think is actually going to define this election as a Senate Democrat is going to dare republicans to vote against an ivf bill. And of course, well Rfk Junijunior play a kind of a spoiler this year. 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Were about to hit the highway i95. My goodness, gracious. Cumulative delegates, a lot of all right. Saw on the republican side hi, just 6 by next tuesday, just seven days from now, its going to be upwards to near a majority, 50 by march 12, 14 days are now two weeks. Its going to be a clear majority, 56 , and 21 days from now, look at this were going to be upwards of 71 of all delegates allotted. I will note that tonight in michigan, in fact, were not allowing any of the delegates because michigan decided to do something a little bit weird on the gop cyber, theyre also going to have a State Convention this weekend where most of the delegates will be a lot. But next tuesday, were going to have a ton of delegates be allotted heres something to keep in mind thats key, abby, most of the gop contest after tonight are either going to be winnertakeall with winter gets all of the delegates or its going to win or winner take most with a winner will get most, if not all of the delegates. So a lot of delegates will be allotted very quickly to the winners of these upcoming primaries. Yeah. I mean, its basically a Snowball Facts that could be happening here. So when it comes to donald trump and how quickly he can get to the nomination, what does it look like . Yeah. So, you know, as we pointed out, winner take all, winner take most, a lot of contexts. Lets go to super tuesday are two big prizes california and texas. Look at the polling here donald trump dominating california. Look at this a 40 point lead. He get all the delegates out there way more than 100 delegates. How about in texas . Winner take most 80 of the vote to just 19 for nikki haley. So the two biggest prizes on super tuesday, looking very good for donald trump. And this is part of something that were seeing in calendar Going Forward because it tonight in michigan, you know, nikki haleys getting about a little less than a third of the vote. That aint likely to happen. A lot of states Going Forward because take a look at the choice for gop nominee nationally, Quinnipiac University of recent poll. Look at this, 80 of the vote for donald trump, just 17 for nikki haley, Market University law school poll. Look here, 73 vote for donald trump, just 15 for nikki haley. So california and texas next tuesday, very large leads for donald trump. Its part of a larger pattern where were seeing very large leads for donald trump nationally. Hes going to get a lot of delegates Going Forward at this polling. Plus b, harry to play devils advocate. It seems like donald trump has been underperforming his polling and a lot of these states. So if youre nikki haley, youre probably looking at that and hoping that thats what maybe so. But donald trump would really have to underperform his calling for nikki haley anywhere near where she needs to go go forward. Thats right. All right. Harry enten. Thank you very much, laura. Point taken, abby. Thank you so much to talk about the republican primary now, i dont want to bring in my fabulous panel weve got cnn contributor lulu garcianavarro, Bloomberg Political and policy columnist niamalika henderson, cnn political commentator karen finney, and republican strategist Shermichael Singleton i am dying to hear what each of you has to say about this because what were seeing tonight, yet another race and yes, trump was successful. But to abbys point, i mean, he could have been more definitive in his win. Lula me ask you about this because he was expected to win. Nikki haley is saying, look, i already told you super tuesday is where im going. Shes vowing to stay in the race she is going to stay in the race. I have long said, im not exactly clear who is her constituency in the Republican Party. I mean, this is the thing, this is a republican primary and weve seen her be very strong with independence. Weve seen her be very strong with people who identify within the Republican Party as moderates or liberals no exactly who they are, but apparently they are people who supported nikki haley. And yet and yet here we are. And you see that polling and you see that she has no path Going Forward. And so all the speculation is what if something happens to donald trump what if the legal issues come over and throw him out of the race . The problem problem with that is im not convinced that nikki haley is the person that theyre going to turn to. And so at this point, she is someone that the never trumpers really like. But you know, how many election cycles do we have to go through where we build up the never trumpers only to see them really fail. I mean, youre right in nevada, didnt she lose none of the candidates . None of the above can of the above. I think in talking to trump to biden voters, which were key part of bidens victory in 2020. Those are the haley voters, right there, sort of never trumpers or once trumpers and now more like buying it and i think nikki haley, you whats going to happen to nothing is going to happen to donald trump that hes likely going to be the nominee is something happening to donald trump right now, right. Is she weakening him in this contest . Shes sort of gotten some momentum, i think in terms of her message, you see some of that she was on cnn or earlier this month . Morning talking about him as the chaos candidate, saying hes too old, saying he cant when she sounds like a democrat, right . I just i dont want to say one thing. I just want to say one thing which is what weve seen with nikki haley is that actually shes pulling worse among republicans the longer this goes on. Problem for her. Shes been saying that for a while now now, people just are not buying it. She has not won the state. She has so far behind in the delegate count. She has so few delegates. She wont even have any power at the Gop Convention to make anything like she cant even try to negotiate for something. I think. But i think the Nikki Haley Effect Xi is a container for republicans who do not like trump and possibly rule vote for joe biden thats a great platform in the container. Thats not that are not not going to bring up yeah. Go ahead. Finish your thought. I think thats the point. Is that people are maybe youre i mean, i have a cousin who lives in South Carolina. Hes a democrat. He voted for nikki haley just because he thought it would be fun and i sort of said, what did you think you accomplish with that . But okay. I dont see momentum. Shes polling at 27. 2 . This is terribly bad. You look at a quarter sure. Of Republican Voters that have voted for nikki haley, but never trumpers. You look at the last president ial election, 2020, about half of those quote, unquote, never trumpers actually voted for donald trump. I am not convinced that a plethora of them will all of a sudden vote for biden now some will vote for biden, but i think thats more like around 15 quantitatively speaking, with that said nikki haley, she has not in my opinion convince Republican Voters as shes the alternative. And lets just Say Something magically happens to donald trump tomorrow. You still have 60 of Republican Voters who are saying, we dont want nikki haley, were not going to vote for nikki haley. Well, tonight, you the same, i want to play for a second. And what she had to say because she says it looked on trump is not bringing people in. Hes pushing them out. Listen ever since donald trump became president , theyve lost the governors mansion. Theyve lost the state house. Theyve lost the state senate. It is a problem hes now bringing people into the party. Hes pushing people out of the party. Shes talking about michigan yes. The party. But heres heres the problem that she has with that message. Again, people arent buying it. The Republican Party made that devils bargain back in 20 16 because remember, previously they did the big autopsy and they were going to be more friendly to women. And then were going to be more friendly to minorities and try to be trying to broaden their coalition and then with trump, they said, oh, okay, we were not gonna do that for awhile, will just stick with a narrowing so theyve already made that bargain people into the party. I mean, trump brought a lot of people into the vote count, went up in 2020, again at the time is six. So i mean, they didnt let me let me hear me. But this is the this is the but this is the this is the kind of conundrum of donald trump, which is he brings people and he has shifted the party, the base looks completely different than it did in 2016. But at the other hand, you have a lot of people that hes repelled, like suburban women who are a huge part of the Democratic Coalition at this point. And i think the pinto thats why were seeing this on a knifes edge the whole time. But i think the people who are supporting her, they i agree with shermichael. They will be more likely to vote for joe biden because shes reminding them that youre not going to be for trump. And if youre not virtra and heres the reality though thats how we want in 2022 calls on. You have to put together a coalition of african American Voters, young voters, never trumpers moderates, independents, the base thats how theyre going to have to put together the coalition to arm comes out and says, i support donald trump. Im endorsing donald trump. Im going to go and campaign you for donald trying i believe thats going to happen. It doesnt matter because ive talked to some of these voters who will Republican Voters whose identity now is locked into been a never trump after he cant stand his Character Victims ever said that is not a small amount of peep thats deal. But i that im looking at a Battleground Straight State Strategy for the former president. Im looking at georgia. Im looking at nevada. Im looking at wisconsin. Im looking at arizona. These are all states at the former president lost by 33,000 votes, some 12,000 votes bear barely difference. Im not really concerned about michigan gop biden can win michigan. Donald trump can lose michigan when those four states and still return back to the white house. So this idea that nikki haleys somehow pulling in 30 im not convinced of that, but he says five to 10 because its going to be an election and hold on. Let me ask the question though, because i literally you made the point there beginning about the big whatifs its and way shes hanging on track my nikki haley hanging on because of the whatifs. I mean, the whatifs includes some federal indictment. They include some State Prosecutions at the very least. Right. So the one is an issue. So would this be a politically naive moved to say either a, im hanging in there for that reason to give me as she says, a non soviet choice style im an election or is it possible that shes not thinking about 20 28 as a republican, shes thinking about right now, no labels i mean, this is a huge speculation that somehow shes going to make this no labels push i dont believe it i havent heard anything that suggests it she is a committed republican. Weve seen a lot of people floated as the no labels candidate. And that group has not really shown itself to have a lot of legs. Find ourselves that the no labels candidate will in effect elect donald trump. Thats right. Full stop. If you look at but their math, it does not add up to half. I agree with that. I do i think this is it for nikki haley in terms of her National Political career. This is it. Theres no chance for her in 2028, even if something legally were to happen to donald trump, im not convinced at a plethora of his voters was suddenly go to nikkihaley, i think ron desantis would have a better chance i get in the majority of trumps voters that nikki haley, well as use it as that famous line in dumb and dumber, youre saying i got to shake everyones thick around up next ligands are racing to promised voters that they will protect ivf as democrats just hours from now will force them to prove it. And later, why the trump teams star witness failed to deliver the damning testimony that they wanted they wanted disqualify fani willis in georgia. Did they meet their burden to show that her actions would lead to an unfair trial for me, the defendants frank sinatra, had connections with the mafia and all these nightclubs were owned by the mob. You didnt want want to make those guys that he was to vegas. 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About your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the Risk Cardiologist recommended form of coke uten kunal, the brand i trust this room with wolf blitzer tomorrow with six on cnn or write a showdown is set for tomorrow as democratic senator Tammy Duckworth will dare her republican colleagues to unanimously passed for legislation that would protect it access to fertility treatments like ivf. This of course, after the alabama Supreme Courts decision that frozen embryos are children, a ruling that has the gop and full on damage control. Duckworth legislation is actually expected to fail by the way, in the house, republican congresswoman nancy mace is unveiling a nonbinding as illusion to express support for ivf babies, reportedly trying to build consensus for her own ivf related legislation. Weve got harry enten, hes back with us at the magic wall with more on what voters are really thinking about this important issue, harry, how do americans feel about that . Yeah, i mean, look, laura, the fact that theres actually very little polling on it because i dont think a lot of pollsters thought to ask this question before the Supreme Court ruling from alabama came down. But this is all tied together with Abortion Rights, ivf, and Abortion Rights. Obviously after the overturning of roe v. Wade, which sort of paved the way that alabama, alabama Supreme Court ruling. Look, we have had seven Ballot Measures on Abortion Rights since july 2022 when roe v. Wade was overturned, look at this, look at this on every single one of those Ballot Measures, the proabortion sites ride one vermont 77 , a very blue state. But look at kentucky not so much of a blue state, 52 . And obviously in ohio back last november 57 of that vote one. Now, we do have a little bit of polling on Ivf Americans who believe that procedure is morally wrong. Abortion, despite the fact that abortion does very well in those Ballot Measures, 49 of americans said that abortion was morally wrong in the last poll that we had an ivf back in 2013, look at ivf though, just 12 of americans believed that Ivf Fertilization is wrong. So the fact is ivf much more popular than abortion, which is proven to be quite popular in a lot of Ballot Measures, laura. So how might this all play obvious, looking forward to 2024 election . Because again, yet another unexpected issue that the candidates are having to grapple with based on a court ruling. Yeah anything that is related to Abortion Rights as some please, the ground that donald trump would be much more interested talking about the economy, because trust biden or trump more on the economy, trump has a 20 point lead. Look at abortion bidens lead is eight point, a much better playing ground for him. Of course, the Real Question is how will this be in voters minds on that Midterm Election back in 2022 . 52 of voters said that abortion was extremely important to their vote. Now, its down to just 42 . And a recent cnn poll back in november of 2023. So i think the question is, does these rulings like those coming out of Alabama On Ivf Change that and make importance go up. Democrats would surely welcome that laura harry enten. Thank you, abby. Of course, you interviewed congressman matt gaetz about this issue and pardon, he talked about the risk of having the conflation between abortion and ivf notable because hes a very conservative republican. Who he said that donald trump follow the next day and the rest is history. Republicans distancing themselves now from this ivf ruling. Laura back with my panel here in new york, ashley that question that harry just posed at the end, there is the the Abortion Issue that ivf issue is this a waning issue or is it something that democrats can continue to keep alive . Oh, its definitely something that democrats can keep alive through the 2024 election because women still have lost this constitutional right to have bodily autonomy. And until it is either codified through congress or it wont be able to work its way probably up to the court to reinstate roe. Its an issue that we can campaign on many states in this election are considering Ballot Measures around abortion i love the fact that there is a bill coming up to onto the floor of the senate to see if republicans will support it because just this week, there rnc put out a memo telling their candidates to support ivf. So you can talk the talk, you can put it in a memo. Now but heres the reality. Look, republicans and conservative republicans are prolife. Thats why weve advocated for years to overturn roe v. Wade and put this in the hands of people at the state level and look, you havent found republicans coming out against ivf, that in fact donald trump and gaetz and others have said they support this. But in terms of Duck Force Legislation that shes planning to put forth, republicans are not going to be in support of this. They think this should be handled again at the statelevel, just like abortion. Debate will come forth in washington tomorrow, talking about federal protections for ivf, which democrats will support and republicans saying, look we support ivf. We understand there are many couples, many families that cannot conceive a child without this, and they support this. But this needs to be handled at the state level and look, this is, this is dont you think theres like mixed messages being sent here . I mean, you have all these candidates pretty much everybody is whos running for the presidency, including donald trump, supports a national ban at some point, not to mention theyre totally fine with the Supreme Court ruling for the entire country banning abortion. It and they have a national ban. Lindsey graham right after roe introduced a national ban, contradictory to the point you just made, saying that they would put it in and again, theyre not saying the quiet part out loud. Theyre hoping that donald trump could win so that they can implement their entire, but they understand the political consequences of the fact that roe v. Wade has been overturned and trump has even mentioned that much to the chagrin of prolife activists across the country, because as harry mentioned, every time abortion has been on the ballot at the statelevel, the proabortion movement has won, and republicans recognize that. And we also recognize that this is an issue again, that should be handled at the state level, and they also understand and that joe biden and democrats would much rather be talking about the Abortion Issue than the economy, than the border. Then National Security, then crime in the streets. These are issues that he is underwater on against donald trump, and they would much rather be talking about abortion again from a political standpoint, it makes sense because it works for democrats, said to you think but the Biden Administration has actually effectively used abortion as a powerful of an issue as it is to their benefit. I think they have tried, they have certainly deployed you know, the kind of messaging gone and theyve deployed the Vice President on the issue, but i really dont think it comes down to them, you know, because the stakes of this are so visceral that when it is on the ballot in the state level, when there is a contrast between the candidates, we have seen voters react to that almost every single time. And so if youre the Biden Campaign, you are certainly at a better advantage when this election is about anything other than the person at the top. And you know that abortion is the most potent issue on this. I think republicans have put themselves in a pickle of their own creation he shouldnt be the evangelical prolife wing that is captured. Theyll specifically the legal arm of the Republican Party and really driven the party on this issue is out of step with where majority of americans are. We continue to see that pop up in state after state after state. And so when you have the reason that senator duckworth can do this on the senate floor. The reason why this continues to be something that gives democrats hope for november is because republicans have kind of havent even decided where they want to go, Going Forward to your point, they are embracing a national ban on and there they are winged of evangelicals forces that only two candidates, donald trump, is in a pickle, even though he sounds much different than Mike Huckabee or ted cruz i dont like whackamole to because they never know when one of the judges that they put on a state court or whatever is going to rule in a way that is going to put abortion right back on the front pages. Absolutely. Republican judges want to get rid of ivf. The republican judges tried to get rid of your right to abortion we had a senate vote on contraception that republic what can senators wouldnt vote for some republicans, Anderson Vote for theyre just wrong on this actual Gender Politics of his era. And it is going to bite them in the, but again, in 2024, the same way did in 2022, you asked that the administration was using this effectively. I will tell you i was in the administration during the midterms, the 2022, the Vice President night his taste talked about this three or four days a week. We traveled the country. She was very out front on it as she helped set the tone for every other democrat about how to talk about it. And democrats, basically, one or tie that election when they were supposed to get some more indians in arizona referendums in florida for november drive people even without when i was talking to as the mifepristone case, thats coming up happiness Supreme Court in june, going into conventions these and going into president ial debates, where people are going to have to say, do you want contraception, do you want the availability to the Abortion Pill . Because most women who have to experience an abortion use mifepristone out of our bedrooms. Guide doctors offices the leaders guys, i totally in my mind meld over here. You know, when i when i interviewed the democratic governors last week, they talked about that actively putting these issues on the ballot and actively making judges an issue on the ballot in their states. And at the local level, we got to leave it there for this its conversation for a moment, but stick around for us. Coming up. President biden, delivering a stark warning to israel moderate its operations in gaza, or risk losing Additional International support. Well speak with a congresswoman, Debbie Wasserman schultz about this coming up the greatest stage they told about lifetime where you found can be tbs only from simply safe 24 7 lifeguard protection. This exclusive Technology Allows simply safe agents to help stop crime in real time, stop police are on their way for instant intruder through deterrence and faster police response. 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The big question is tonight to turn out a symptom of a much larger problem for democrats more broadly, joining me now, congresswoman Debbie Wasserman schultz of florida. Thank you so much for joining me this after this evening. Its late in the evening. Think at this point. Thank you. Congresswoman democrats have now 59,000 plus reasons and counting, i would add to figure out how to keep this protest vote from how people stay home in november has the message of this protest been received . Well, i think its important to note a couple of critical elements of the turnout here today. The michigan secretary of state, for example, is predicting that therell be about 1 million democrats voting today at when all is said and done and the fact that that many people in a primary that is essentially uncontested turned out shows the enthusiasm and the determination that Michigan Democrats want to reelect joe biden particularly based on in the number of the things that you were talking about in the last interview. I mean, michigan voters very clearly in resoundingly are prochoice, want to make sure that reproductive freedom is maintained its support are supportive of joe biden lists, particularly manufacturing jobs hes created. His record is remarkable and i think that that will show in the november election. The other thing thats important to note, laura, is that if you look at president obamas 2012 reElection Results, uncommitted, were were in double digits and about five or six states so joe biden is actually doing quite a bit better here than then, even when president obama had uncommitted results in his, in his March Two Reelection in 2012 certainly uncommitted as a concept is not novel and it was a factor for trump. It was a factor for obama to factor for incumbent presence, as you see right now. But there is a needle that has to be threaded because as i was speaking to one of our guests about the why behind tHe Uncommitted she spoke of it as being a humanitarian protests, not so much about politics and the longer, so its really hard to understate, overstate at one point of how important michigan is to bidens reelection, but also the question, how does he support israel and keep the coalition that he needs to win in a state like michigan well, i mean, i think its really important to remind people that october 7 you had the worst attack and the most murders of jews in the world since the holocaust. And that 1,200 plus jews were slaughtered by a terrorist organization, hamas 240 were taken hostage to 134 of those are still held hostage. And this could end today. If hamas does exactly what they should do, which is released the hostages and its also important to know that the palestinians in gaza are also victims of hamas. This is a tragedy, an epic tragedy that has been perpetrated on the people of gaza. And the people of israel by a terrorist organization, hamas laser therapy. Certainly the idea of addressing the death toll and what is being experienced. Those who remain as hostages and those who were confined to the area is part of what is behind the protests that humanitarian discussions that really has to be tackled in terms of what goes next and what happens next. I do want to point out to you that there is some new reporting by our cnn Global Affairs analyst, barak ravid and he is reporting tonight that the Biden Administration is giving israel until midmarch, which is two weeks away, really, to commit in writing to abide by International Law by using u. S. Made weapons. And heres the consequences. They dont if they dont, those weapons will the transfers will then be paused. I wondering, should the us consider pausing military aid if this reporting is true . Laura, its important to note that that that instruction that guidance is part of the memorandum that the Administration Just released its memorandum 20 and i mean, it is already us law at that we expect that our International Partners, particularly those that get us assistance, abide by International Law. I mean, of course we want them to do that. And that memo indicated not only for israel, but other countries and conflict that they would have 45 days to get that information turned over to the United States to secretary blinken, particularly and other countries not in conflict would have 180 days. This is not a remarkable or exceptional policy. Of course, we want our International Partners to abide by International Law. And israel is one is the country in the world that has the most compliance with International Law that endeavors aggressively to notify that civilians who are in harms way when they are going to engage in a military action . That they should get out of harms way provides pathways to do that. And what does the masto hamas uses their own people as Civilian Shields so that because, that because the pain, the tragedy, and the killing is the point with hamas. Because as they said, just after october 7, that was the first attack. And there would be a second to third and the thousands attack. And i think its also important to note that theres a harvardharris poll out today that shows that 82 68 of the American People are supportive of israel at 2 are supportive of israel being able to defend themselves. And that hamas is at 18 so i mean, thats important perspective because of course americans oppose Terrorism Support Beat people being able to defend themselves against it. It is important perspective as is the point that there are those including President Biden, who have criticized a response that would go over the top, or at somehow undermine the expectations of compliance with International Law. That is the crux of that issue. And the notion of removing that aid or pausing it. Last question for you, congresswoman tonights uncommitted vote. Frankly, i mean, thats not the only wrinkle for democrats. Rfk junior is getting his name on some key Swing State Ballots ahead of a general election. Im talking about in arizona and georgia so far, i mean, you were the former head of the dnc when you look at that traction, how big of a problem is this for the democrats im confident that from now until november, were going to mount the most significant Reelection Campaign that that any, any president ial Reelection Campaign has ever run theyre going to run on joe bidens remarkable record of job creation the most in modern times, investments and infrastructure they just, they Just Announced 50 million that are coming from the Infrastructure Bill to my district at Fort Lauderdale airport, Hollywood International airport at 1. 1 billion, came to our community for everglades serration. This is happening all over the country and voters are going to go to the polls and reward, though biden because the chaos and pain that would return if donald trump were present, including a muslim ban that he committed to reinstate as soon as he as he takes office again thats the kind of stark contrasts that voters are going to reject. Returning to trump, the trump days and make sure that the better days ahead will continue with joe biden well, we shall see if those committed votes are uncommitted votes will translate to commitment to joe biden as right now there seems to be something to be said for those statements already congresswoman Debbie Wasserman schultz. Thank you so much. Thank you. Laura. Cnns continuing coverage of the michigan primary starts right now too big. Stories and two big victories to the surprise of absolutely no one joe biden wins michigan and donald trump also wins the republican contests in michigan but bidens big challenger right now is uncommitted. Significant numbers of voters are angry with him, angry enough about his handling of gaza to send a message with a protest vote. And theyre vowing that these numbers will grow. Welcome back. Top of the hour to our live special coverage. Im abby philip in new york im laura coates in washington, dc, amid what looks like an extra double march to another bidentrump contest in november. Donald trump is facing another kind of protest vote. Thousands of people who, even though they may be can read the writing on the wall, writing that says donald trump well likely be the republican nominee. And im voting for just him or for him. They vote for nikki haley. And of course, the big question tonight is, what does all of this tell us about november . Lets go straight to harry enten, whos at the magic wall. Although when hes there at the magical wall, he has the very latest from michigan, harry biden twins, but is showing some vulnerability right . Thats exactly right. Laura, look, i hope any time with me is a magical time. Lets take a look, there you go, right at midnight here on the east. Look, joe bidens getting any 1 blowing everybody else out of the water. The big question of course, is this uncommitted at 13 . And i want to put that in some historical perspective. Are you back in 2012 where there wasnt this protest vote, barack obama in fact, was getting about. Lets see if i can do it. A 11 or excuse me, uncommitted was getting about 11 against barack obama in that michigan primary. So right now on committed getting 13. 4 , just slightly greater than the percentage that course obama got. And i want to sort of zone in on the areas where uncommitted is doing well, all right, lets go down to the southeast part of the state. All right. Wayne county, detroit uncommitted. Theyre getting 16 of the vote, only 27 of the vote in some of that is dearborn where theres of course, a large arab American Population were uncommitted is doing significant secondly, better, in fact, getting about a majority of the vote. The last i looked, but over on the county, just 16 . How about some other places where its doing well, how about lets go to lansing lansing, michigan ingram counting east lansing, of course, Michigan State university. A lot of collegeeducated vote their uncommitted getting a little less than 18 of the vote. But of course, only 23 of the vote but in there, or how about lets go down here, we go. Lets go. This is ann arbor the most welleducated part of the state, uncommitted getting nearly 20 of the vote, 61 of the vote. And i will note, if you go back to 2020 Bernie Sanders got 45 of the vote. There. Joe biden just got 48 of the vote, significantly worse then he did statewide with 53 of the vote uncommitted doing well, but not necessarily too well. Laura thats the blue sides with their republican red. Yeah. All right. So we went on the let say, lets go 2024. Were going to go to the republican side of the iri. What do we see here . We see donald trump was 68 of the vote considerably less than joe bidens 80 of the vote, right . So theres this question, okay. Is the protest vote bigger on the democratic or republican side . Nikki haleys getting 27 of the vote there. But of course, donald trump easily winning here. I should note theres a Gop Convention, not just a primary in the state of michigan where most of the delegates are in fact going to be allotted some of the delegates will be on a based upon this primary, but were not exactly sure how well find out this weekend. Where is donald trump not doing necessarily as well . Well, lets go down to a familiar part of the state. Lets go down again, the home of ann arbor, michigan university, university of michigan, excuse me, donald trump getting 53 of the vote. Oh, we just jumped up to monro. Lets go back. Nikki haley getting 42 for some of the vote there. But it most of the state, you go up to that upper peninsula. Upper peninsula is my dear friend billy, whos producing reminded me of nikki haley just getting some 18 of vote, donald trump getting 78 overall. Donald trump just doing very well. A michigan, hes doing considerably better there than he didnt. New hampshire where he got just 54 or if if you go to South Carolina this past weekend, you saw donald trump got 60 of tonight, a michigan, hes doing considerably better than hes done in any of the primary so far, were nikki haley was also on the ballot. Laura harry enten, so smooth with the magic wall. Somebody better wake up. John king, hes going to be upset. Abby thanks, laura, joining me now, is abraham is hes the Majority Floor Leader in the Michigan House of representatives. And he is the highest ranking Arab American lawmaker in the state. Abraham, thanks for joining us. Now, as you just heard there, over 60,000 uncommitted votes and counting, do you saying that this sends enough of a message to the president and his campaign at this point i think thats a question that were going to have to ask the Biden Campaign what we know is this. Michigan is going to be a critical state in november, and theres a significant chunk of michigan voters that are antiwar propeace and want to see you and to the funding of israels war crimes. And voters came out in with a lot of enthusiasm with that commitment and now the question has to be to President Biden his campaign, what will they do to heed the call of these people that have come out and said, we are a propeace, Antiwar Movement that once our leaders itll be better. It is not an undemocratic thing to demand that your leaders are better and that they do more to lead with moral clarity. And i even asked what tonights results will demonstrate so let me ask you what happens next. Your movement has a few demands a ceasefire, rebuilding gaza conditioning, aid to israel. If President Biden does not meet all of these demands, what comes next . What are you going to be advising the Ceasefire Movement supporters to do come november well, what weve seen is a ceasefire. Enrollment will be able to have a voice this august by our indications, with looks like we will likely have enough votes in some capacity to send delegates to chicago to continue to push the call for peace, to push the call for a ceasefire and this is the right thing to do. You have seen nearly 15,000 palestinian babies murdered with us backed greenland weapons by netanyahus regime. And there has not been no end in sight bible, what we see, and i think people are sick of it. People do not want this country to be funding wars that are killing innocent men, women, and children for over 140 days. So we have 140 days roughly until the august convention and were going to keep pushing that narrative because it is the right thing to do is the moral thing to do. And history will judge this moment as where did we stand as a nation when we saw all the carnage, all the chaos, and unfortunately the callous disregard of the palestine and in humans and all the babies that we have seen murdered over the last hundred and 40 days we want to see peace in that region. And the only way to do that is to stop funding any effort that is bombing innocent people. So a ceasefire is the baseline to continue towards that march, towards greater peace. And i just wanted to note, as you pointed out, about the delegates, the threshold for getting delegates in the state would be 15 right now, you havent quite hit that. Its about 13 from the numbers that im looking at. But looking forward to the convention what does that look like . What does putting pressure on President Biden look like at that convention in chicago we have were going to explore every option, but i think you look at things like, what is the Party Platform on sending military aid to israel . What will be the partys platform on addressing israels war crimes . These are the conversations that we have heard over the last several weeks. And i want to point out this time committed campaign has only been around for 21 days and we have amassed a lot of support and a lot of Grassroots Enthusiasm for peace and were going to take that to the convention. And ill tell you, we have folks coming from other states, actually including arizona and georgia that said, what can we do in our states to push this propene war measure, that there will be on the floor of the convention i cant i cant really predict anything. What i will say as President Biden has a message and has an opportunity in this moment to respond to that message that americans overwhelmingly want to see peace they want to see a ceasefire in michigan alone, nearly 75 of michiganders, not democrats, and 75 of michiganders want to see a ceasefire. So if michigan is a critical state in november, the question will be, why not listen to something thats 75 of people want. I tell you as an elected official myself abby, if i was told 75 of my constituency wants something, and its the right thing to do. Theres no reason why i would not do it it to be to be fair to President Biden. He said just yesterday, hes trying to push for a ceasefire. As soon as this weekend so right here, he said it just yesterday he said just yesterday. And i think that is the point we have seen 143 days of carnage, of chaos and callous disregard for humanity of the palestinians. And it was just yesterday and lets be very clear no, i dont think abraham i dont think that thats necessarily fair to say. I mean, the white house has been encouraging a cessation of fighting in exchange for hostages, which i presume you want the hostages returned to. I dont think its fair to say that it was yesterday was the first time that that was something that was voiced well, ill ill say this for about 100 days. We did not see any conversation around the palestinians and their pain and suffering so much so that ana hundred day mark of this conflict, the white house did not release a single message, even dignifying the palestinians and the pain and suffering they went through. We want peace and we want peace for israelis, and we want peace for palestinians. The question is, will we have leaders that will heed that call an usher that piece forward, and you cannot do that by funding in bombs to a regime that is hellbent on wiping the palestinians out from gaza, as weve seen demonstrated through the 80 of the civilian infrastructure that has been destroyed. A 30,000 dead, 2 million displaced, and nearly 100,000 that are still missing or presumed dead. So the numbers do not lie. And what we hope to do who is showing that the numbers tonight will demonstrate that this president has an opportunity to lead with moral clarity and say, we will change course before november. We will change course to save lives and we will change course to usher in an antiwar propeace democratic big ten so that we can defeat the danger in november all right, Michigan StateHouse Majority floor leader, abraham, i ash. Thank you very much for your time tonight. Laura really fascinating conversation. Thank you, abby, i want to bring in my panel right now and talk about this now, we havent going through the numbers and of course the data and the Election Results are can you to come in. But this is significant for biden and more decisive than say what trump has led by over nikki haley yet and still uncommitted. This is nothing to sneeze at. There is a message that has been sent. Well, absolutely. But one thing i will say it looks like an Oakland County which is high proportion of its got detroit, where you have african American Voters, joe biden won almost every precinct. So i think thats actually, thats when youre thinking about 20 24 in november. Thats something you want to see, but absolutely. They sent a very important signal and it was interesting today as our correspondents were talking to people, they made the point, they werent necessarily voting against joe biden, but they wanted to send a message. They wanted people to understand how powerfully they deeply people feel. Whats interesting about those numbers that we just had up. I think it was 13. 8 . If they are able to get to 15 by, by dnc committed, im committed if uncommitted, disabled to get to fifth team percent by our Democratic Party rules, they would be able to accrue delegates and whats out, whats meaningful about that is if other states also do this undo uncommitted and make that 15 threshold. Then youre talking a decent amount of potentially decent amount of delegates what did they do with that . Do they take that to the to the convention . Do they try to influence policy when we go through whats called the platform could process, which is basically the policies of the party going into the convention. So thats something to watch, is sort of what are they organized enough to take this when and then what will they do with it . This is something that i think is really interesting because im a former middle east correspondent. I spent a lot of time in the middle east and i understand that what theyre asking for now is a ceasefire. But i can tell you that thats not going to be the end of things because once you have a ceasefire, first of all, its going to be temporary because theyre still negotiating secondly we havent really had access to gaza, but once International Film crews get in there and see the damage and get to talk to the people youre going to have a lot of people who get there news from social media, young people who are seeing this war for the a war that they havent seen this before for the first time. All these Images Replaying Over and over again. I just dont think that this issue is going to go away for the administration. I think its going to perhaps you know, really impact what we see in other states and what a great point on that to my way to talk about that, but great point because what you described is an uncertainty that the campaigns have no idea when that might happen, when that shoe would draw this. And i think some of these social Media Attention to this issue, its already happening right on tiktok, seeing these images very heartbreaking images out of gaza, 30,000 folks did at this point. This is a real issue for joe biden because it cuts at a very important part of his base era. American voters, obviously in michigan, i think there were Something Like 150,000 who voted in 2020. They likely voted mostly for joe biden. We see that pain showing up in tHe Uncommitted vote in, so they have really got to figure this out. Its black voters, its arab American Voters, its young voters are its highly educated voters as well and then youre going to have a third Party Presence in some of these states and folks who are very much further to the left on this issue than joe biden. But one good, i think thats the concern for the president or for democrats. What happens when you have Younger Voters, Younger Voters of color, having solidarity with the Palestinian People. And you started looking at some of the battlegrounds, says he realized the president didnt win by substantial margins. What does that look like . Do some of those voters vote . Third party when you doing thirdparty candidates like rfk junior, than you really start to see the maps changed drastically more favor of trump and i think the white house has to be very careful here because we do see that majority are about the Palestinian People are going to zero. Thats not what im saying. Im saying the states it could go in favor of trump if you see some of the younger individuals find his solidarity saying, were going to Vote Third Party or stay home or not, were not vote at all. So i think thats a legitimate concern. And then finally, really quickly here i will say the president has to be careful. There are about 15 of moderate leaning republicans who voted for him in 2020. They support israel do you make a Policy Decision that could turn off some of those voters a two quick things to mention. Number one, whos the person who has been pushing netanyahu the hardest that is joe biden on the phone Night And Day pushing him to care about the hostages. Initially to continue to move him towards a tooth back to it hes to solution to move him towards a ceasefire and i think the hope of the administration is i completely agree with your point, lu but at the same time, if in three months, what were seeing is an american, American Leadership in rebuilding then thats a very different imagery and thats what i will just say that Bibi Netanyahu is no friend of the Democratic Party necessarily he has made that clear over his very, very long tenure and he is in a very precarious situation himself where the incentive for him is to keep this war go going as long as possible, because his entire but political future is based reelected. But its really please dont want i think part of what biden needs to do you can talk about the comparisons with donald trump and what gaza would look like if donald trump were there and his muslim ban. What joe biden has gone to meet with these folks, hes got to hear their pain. Hes got to hear their stories. And we know theres pain obviously on both sides. Jewish folks as well as Arab Americans here as well. Joe biden has this sort of pastoral effect to him. Hes needs to employ that hes got to go to these communities and talk to these folks. Thats part of it. They dont feel seen, they dont feel heard tonight. They sent a big message mean surrogates are one thing. The actual president united there in person, a very different ball game. And i think youre all right. I mean, uncommitted. The phrase that theyre using but theyre saying dont take our vote for granted, which is a very common sentiment among voters through particularly marginalized group marginalized groups, everyone stick around because next the clock is ticking tonight towards a Government Shutdown. And my expression is because im so accustomed to be inefficiency of these moments after an intense meeting at the white house between President Biden and congressional leaders were still here, plus the mayor of new york city wants a rollout and roll back some Sanctuary City Protections and deport some migrants and why the star witness for the trump team frankly failed to deliver damning testimony. Against fani willis in the georgia case erin burnett, outfront tomorrow at seven on cnn some people just know that the best rate for you as a rate based on you with all state, not one based on paul. You dont want arrive at sarah thats day you dont want to rate based on ben. Hes got some important business to take care of. Why would you pay rate based on anyone else with asd youre connected to a rate based on you my moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis held me back now with sky rizzi, im all in with clear skin. 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Eliot spitzer blazed a trail that had him in Spitting Distance of the white house right up until the moment he set himself on fire and crusading governor by day, wanted desperately, i think to be present in the United States client number nine by nights this guy whos in crusader against Human Sex Trafficking is actually in customer heres how the saga of Eliot Spitzer really went down this was a Turning Point in american government, United States of scandal with jake tapper sunday at nine on cnn in washington, the clock is ticking yet again, as congress has until this friday to reach a deal to avert another Government Shutdowns Senate Republican leader Mitch Mcconnell and House Speaker mike johnson. Both met with President Biden and other Democratic Leaders earlier today over at the white house. Now after that meeting, mcconnell express some optimism around reaching a deal, saying that the group had made some real headway on this issue. My panel is back with me alice, at some point. Theyre going to have to figure this out. I mean, this has been kicking the can down the road, kicking the can down the road do you get the sense that mike johnson because really the ball is in his court at this point, does he have a handle on this . He thinks he does because his sinema after the meeting was similar to mcconnells, was that he was optimistic that they will make progress on the Spending Deal and avoid a Government Shutdown. The problem is, if he is successful in that, the likelihood of him losing his position is very high because republicans in the house will not like caving in any way, shape, or form to to agree with something that the democrats would support. Heres the issue. We have in washington right now. And this goes on both sides republicans and democrats. It is so transactional right now. We have, we have the Government Shutdown, we have israel, we have ukraine, even taiwan, all issues extremely important. Each and every one of them on the wrong should seek bipartisan cooperation. But Everyone Wants to have transactions on washington. Ill give you x if you give me why that is extremely disingenuous to each of these issues, but as dangerous, it causes conflict on all of these issues. But this is the situation were in. I do Think Johnson will be able to make some progress, but its going to be at his own peril. You know what, abby, im sorry. I dont think alice i dont think that it is that transactional. I think its actually be opposite of transactional because if those transactional, you could say, oh, i like this, i dont like this policy, but you do so ill give you a little bit of that policy and will trade instead, it all seems political at all, feels like i dont want to give the other side of victory and that is the problem i think for getting these bills passed is the republicans, in particular in the house because i think the senate is trying to do business. The republicans dont want to give the democratic president any kind of a victory in an election. Yeah, because its like i want x, i want i want x. Well, heres x. Never mind, i want z, i want thats what the republicans are doing right now. They did it on the border, bill. They go in, they say its optimistic and then he come, mike johnson comes out and immediately pivoted. Like, what about the border . And its like, can we do multiple things at once . Can you govern, can you do your job . And the answer is, they can but they dont want to also, republicans are simply ungovernable. I mean, theyve not been just because of johnson. This is the speaker before. This is even the votes to get mccarthy there in the first place. This is consistent with them and its partially because we have seen a Republican Caucus has transitioned from being one thats more topdown to the individual members having such power that they can be island of one to these demands that were talking about, the republican maga wing of the party is completely uncontrolled by the top, they can go on their own pockets, they can do, they can raise their own money, they can speak directly to donald trump, who was having his own imprint. They have a sense of power thats outside of where mike johnson. And so when these trying to wrangle them or even if there is any incentive to make government work, they are thinking politically and theyve been rewarded for that by their base. And so i was just at cpac this week in washington, dc the home of this kind of weighing, right. And they are celebrating the idea of a Government Shutdown and looking forward to that question is active . Its not even what i mean, is there a world in which republicans actually fund the government here because i mean, thats this has been the question for about six months now. And it seems like the answer is no. Well, there are the far right maga wing of the house. Gop is perfectly fine with a Government Shutdown because because they feel like thats a good way for them to get their points out there on the border and support for the border. The problem is, mike johnson is the House Speaker. Donald trump is the house whisper. He is going around to all these house members saying, lets not pass border patrol, Border Control because we want to save that for our administration, which they had for years to do and they did nothing about it. Thats the crux of the issues here is donald trump has such a stronghold on republicans in the house and the senate right now that that is they want the perfect. Perfect is the enemy of the good, and theyd rather get nothing than something all because donald trump wanted just to that exact point. I mean, the pressure that hes exerting is pretty extreme. He had senator john thune endorse him. And when Mitch Mcconnell was asked about this by manu raju, heres what he said over the weekend, similar trump, the other lieutenants have been why are you holding out . Forcing the likely nominee . I dont have any announcement today i have to juggle thats a classic Mitch Mcconnell move. I dont have any announcements on that today. I mean, is that a is that a no or is that im holding out . The possibility because if theres one thing Mitch Mcconnell is, he is pragmatic and if hes got to endorse to get things moving, hell probably do it. He is pragmatic. I mean, listen, theres this mara lago hotline. It feels like going on between florida and washington, dc in the capital. And we remember when they were trying to get the first speaker than kevin mccarthy. And there was a video or a picture of Marjorie Taylor greenes phone as she had donald trump on the phone. He was talking to members on the floor while they were trying to get this done nobody else has power in this party. We all this except thats in the house. Maybe Mitch Mcconnell has a little bit of power left in the senate and hes trying to hold onto it to see where he can get for endorsing from but every other part of this party is run by donald trump. Every single republican event that i go to or trump event that i go to, theres a part where they boo Mitch Mcconnell, like there is a, this is a person who needs the trump weighing to keep that access to power. But the same time they need him because this is a kind of policy project that they understand requires from something goishi asten of the senate. So theres a kind of transactional in nature that puts them both and each others camp. But i do think this is a little different of a trump operation this time, they are kind of pitching more frontally to their own voters that we are not going to be deferential to the swamp, quote, unquote, this time around we come back, you can expect us to up end and that should be a part of your choice as we expectation of this campaign. And so i think that that was, you know, donald trump explicit always, but i think now its an explicit promise of what they are offering to voters. I think we should think of a republican base, which at least for the hardcore slides not the majeure, which is not the 67 were seeing tonight. But for some of them, they want that. Yeah, if youre the democrats, youre actually making that very same argument that donald trump is going to come back and do all the things that he promised, but do them more effectively. Thats actually the joe biden argument as well. Everyone stick around for us coming up next. He was billed as star witness in the efforts swallowed by the Fulton County da fani willis. But a georgia lawyer could not deliver the promise testimony about williss improper romantic with her lead prosecutor, our panelists will discuss that coming up how do i look . Perfect. Good boy. We are young republican let me do my work. And some pride sorry streaming exclusively on max they told us to follow our dreams. Ben said they were unrealistic because passions dont pay bills but what they didnt know it said, dreamers make their own victory the rise okay, sandals, st. Vincent, and the grenadines in our winsor bc, this sanders. Com or call 1800 sandals you may like it never even happened, happened servpro with nortech odie i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attack allinone, dont take if allergic to nurtac allergic reactions can occur even days after using most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. 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New york has been dealing with several serious incidents involving migrants, including a shooting of a tourist during a robbery in times square now, atoms would need the City Councils support to change the sanctuary city laws on this. Laura that legal topic is firing up the right. And now theres one that frankly might be firing up the left. Lets go down to georgia because there was another dramatic day in court as Fulton County da fani willis is trying to stay on the case against donald trump in georgia attorneys for trump. In other words, theyre trying to prove that she lied about her roman commands, special prosecutor, nathan wade, the man she hired to run the case. Cnns nick valencia, was there. Nick, what happened laura Terrence Bradley was again back on the stand and again, he was the star witness that wasnt the judge determined that some of the questions that he refused to answer the first time around what he would was testifying. Were not actually covered by attorneyclient privilege. So he was back on the stand on tuesday and he was repeatedly asked about any personal knowledge he had about a romantic relationship kinship between willis and wade, and he repeatedly answered that either could not or did not recall. Tuesdays hearing ended without the damaging testimony that Defense Attorneys had expected. Another hearing is scheduled for friday. And at that hearing, Defense Attorneys are expected to introduce phone data, which they got from a subpoena, which they say shows thousands of phone interactions between willis and wade before they started dating laura thank you so much. Neck for saying on this case. I want to bring in my panel now with all the focus that weve seen, in this case. Well, we havent heard about is obviously underlying facts about the case. This is not about the election subversion thats is more about somewhat call it a procedural sideshow, although very significant nonetheless my question you look at all these things in connection. Im often wondering who has got the harder hill to climb at this point. Youve got biden confronting tHe Uncommitted with Foreign Policy. Youve got trump in his laundry list and a lot of things are legal issues when you look at this expansively, who has the harder hill, which is going to be more of a problem for the voters. What do you think . Well, listen, im going to come trait the middle and this and say they both have an equal hill to climb here. We know what the issues are. I think one of these sort of underlying problems is its all unpredictable. You cant tell what its going to happen with these court cases with donald trump, some of the polling does suggest if there is conviction, some republicans might waver a little bit those independence certainly im sure which question there supporting of donald trump. If you use in fact convicted whether or not that happens, we dont really know in terms of joe biden. Again, who knows whats going to happen on the ground . Ground in gaza with Foreign Policy more generally, with both of their ages, right . These are men he, joe bidens 81, donald trump is 77. Probably not the healthiest person i heard he eats to fish fillet sandwiches at a time. Those are delicious sandwiches by the way but thats fine. I mean, i do love fried fish. I dont know that i love mcdonalds by a fish, but anyway, i digress. Last season to season just like that, i have yes. Yes. So yeah, i think they both have identifiable issues in their sort of equally difficult for both dive i think one of the really interesting things for me when i look at joe biden and donald trump, is that this is the rematch from hell. I mean, i just can i say that . I mean, i dont want this. I dont know anyone else who wants this. I dont even think other than donald trump, i dont even think joe biden would have necessarily wanted this so when we look at these two people together, and you see the polling, one of the things that comes up again and again and again is that people know who these two guys are, and they have real feelings about them either way. And the question is how Much Movement is theyre really going to be . Thats why i guess whats happening in michigan. So interesting, thats why the ivf situation so interesting, cannot move the needle. I mean, i dont know because truly when you talk to people, people have an opinion about donald trump. People they either love them or they hated people. Now have opinion about joe biden. Theyve seen him for three years, and so i just dont know how Much Movement theres going to be. There is no mythical, i think in my opinion independent voter thats going to come save the day. Well, what about the issue of ivf, by the way, because this is, this is really we know that even said opposition abortion was going to remain on the ballot in many respects, this is part of why as a movement, we started talking about reproductive freedom over all, because it is all encompassing. And because once dobbs was overturned, we saw its not just access to abortion, its ivf, its contraception, its frankly discrimination against women when theyre pregnant. And so theres a whole swath of issues. And how do you say to a woman, how are republican candidates going to say . I trust you to do complicated ivf, but i dont trust you to make the best decisions for yourself about whether or not you should be pregnant. And i dont trust you to take that medicine. Its going to be ridiculous. So i actually think, yes, both men have challenges. But i think joe biden actually has more positives to run on in terms of his actual record, which is actually done for the country look, they have not done a good job communicating and i dont know where the disconnect is, but id rather have that hand and be moving that ball down the field. Then the trump trials where as we saw in case after case is just so far you dont know whats going to come out. And so that is going to i think harden those people who already know they dont like donald trump militia. I think for trump, the best thing for him politically speaking is to try to delay these things as long as he possibly can. As was mentioned, if hes found guilty a significant portion of republicans, not just the ones who have supported nikki haley, but even many of the ones that 60 that are voting for trump have said, we wont vote for a convicted felon to lead the country. So trump needs to try to delay this thing until beyond on november 5 however, when you look at some of the pluses for trump compared to biden, people trust and more with the economy they trust him more than immigration. They trust or more on the issue of handling some of the International Crises that we currently are facing is that republicans more broadly on those. When you look at the data, it appears that voters writ large, writ large appear to trust trump more than biden on those issues. The economy is doesnt connecting with the average american person despite the fact that unemployment numbers are low, the cost of goods hes very real saleable things for everyday people they cant afford it. Lore and i will say that polling that ive seen shows they cant move to remember, like when we talk about democracy, the economy affects everybody differently, particularly with black voters. How black voters talk about the economy and think about it is not the same, its, yes, its groceries and gas. But it also has to do with money in their pocket. And if they are feeling like i am dealing with racism and bias at my job, then im not getting the pay that i deserve. Thats an economic issue. Most people cant even afford 1,000 emergency, particularly black but i think thats the problem, right isnt new. And so a lot of folks in these communities, black Brown Community sort of working class communities. Theyve lived in these communities. Maybe they sent their kids hbcus, the hbcu campuses are rundown and their neighborhoods or run down as well. And so youve got joe biden out there and kamal harris saying listen, weve poured all this money into hbcus. Theres so many jobs, but people dont feel it because they are living the same sort of barely above water kind of existence so that i think is one of the reasons is not connecting because you can explain what the Unemployment Rate is. But if people dont feel it, they dont feel youre not going to go to the ballot for you. And i think also you just see democratic surrogates all the time talking about the Infrastructure Bill. And yes, i mean, do remember it was like every week was infrastructure week under the trump administration. And so when it finally happened, oh, my and it was a very impressive and consequential bit of legislation. But the fact is its dispersed all over the country and it means road works and it means its a lot of Different Things in different places. It means bridges shore, but you have republicans taking credit for some of that money and saying, look what i brought to my district and so its dispersed and so a lot of lot of the problem that this administration has had is really saying, look, ive made your life tangibly better. Lets not forget, were coming out of a terrible time in america, the pandemic, where people still are hung over from that. And so, you know in a way its hard for joe biden to do right . Right. Right. I think weve been hard for anybody to do, right. I will remind you that the michigan governor won her first race on fix the roads so thats an economic good biden thats well, i have and thats an economic issue for a lot of people. I love a conversational platform, fix the roads bodes, rents too high. I mean, it just resonates with people talking about fish sandwiches. I mean, its all the whole thing take note everyone stick around up next, supporters of rfk junior say that hell be on the ballot in two key battleground states this november. So what could that mean for biden or trump . Narrow margins . Harry enten will look at the data sunday. Van jones, its home to find out what is driving the divide and tennessee politics. There has been a very active 20 to 30 year effort to separate us the whole story with Anderson Cooper sunday at eight have you heard sling tv offers the news you love for less weight. You look and sound just like me. Actually i am, you. Because on the same news programs on sling for less, you mean youre me but for less money, a lot less . Im all your favorite news programs and more on sling starting at just 40 a month. 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Sunday on cnn a super pac supporting rfk junior says that it has enough signatures to put them on the ballot in arizona and georgia, those are two key battleground states President Biden beat former President Trump in both states. By the slimmest of margins. Harry enten is here to tell us really how significant this is going to be. Yeah, you mentioned slim margins. Im not quite sure unless you go back to florida and 2000 where it was 500 votes, youre going to get margins as slim as what we saw in 2020 and arizona, joe biden defeated donald trump by a little bit more than 10,000 votes. You go over to georgia a little bit less than 12,000 votes. Any slight thing could move the needle, abby, what something that could slightly move the needle. How about if we introduce robert f. Kennedy jr. Into the ballot test . All right, lets look at arizona. This is among likely voters in new york times, Sienna College poll back in october and november of last year, look at rfk getting 24 of the vote. How about in georgia, a similar 23 , that is really wild it is. But wheres this vote counting from coming from the trump column, the biden column, maybe a little of both. Yeah. Its a little bit of both. I will note first that this is in fact highest percentage of any independent candidate is pulled since ross perots pulling back, not a 96, but in 1,992. Now, you asked, where is this vote coming from . Okay. The biden versus trump, paul martin without kennedy and arizona, trump plus five with kennedy. Look at this. It shrinks down to a time very significant change there, but in georgia, interestingly enough, we actually see the opposite pattern. Trump was up by five without kennedy. Now you add kennedy in the equation and you get trump plus seven. So i think theres some Real Question of who this would help, who this would hurt. Its not necessarily clear, like with a cornell west where i think were pretty clear that it would hurt joe biden, kennedy much its less clear is where it would take votes for. Where is he on the ballot . Just in general . Yes. So where are some other states that he is on the ballot . Yeah. You mentioned arizona and georgia as possibilities. Okay. Rfk junior is ballot access. Other states biden won by less than eight points in 2020, the super pac that we spoke about earlier trying to get them on the ballot in michigan and nevada, both two very close states that biden won by less than three points. How about New Hampshire . Hes got the signatures there already. That could be a surprisingly close date. I dont want it rather easily back in 2020, but in 2016, it was decided by less than a percentage points. So rfk could play, but i gotta tell you if it is a plurality victory for either biden or you know, theres a psychological thing that is going to happened to this country if thats where the case harry enten. Thank you very much. And thank you all for watching our special coverage of michigans primary elections its all id like four more hours and ms laura you could stick around for another. Okay. And onehalf minutes well be back tomorrow night at mans coverage of the elections continues after this break. Have a great night yeah he go i want us vegas thats what i want to do. They had the biggest entertainers in America Vegas is always marketed itself on its naughtiness and the only way you find out what you can do is if you do it its unlike get anywhere else in the worlds biggest the story of sin city sunday at ten on cnn. Why choose asleep numbers, smart bad . Can it keep me warm when im cold wait. No, im always hot. Sleep number. 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