what did israel know and when did they know it? an explosive report provides an answer to both of those questions. that's tonight on "news night." good evening, i'm abby phillip in washington, and breaking tonight, "the new york times" reports that israel had the hamas attack, plan of attack more than a year before october 7th, and they chose to simply file it away. now, the consequences here were deadly, and now there is a question about if at all the war, the deadliest day in israel's history, thousands and thousands of palestinians caught in the cross fire of all those bombs if it was all preventable. "the times" claims that israel inte intercepted a hamas blueprint nicknamed jericho wall. it, quote, called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine gun along the boarder and gunmen to pour into israel on motorcycles and on foot. the document, according to "the times" circulated among israeli military and intelligence leaders. leaders who then dismissed that plan as beyond hamas' capabilities, not just once but multiple times. the discovery of this document's existence also adds drama to a decision that is just hours away now. does israel try to push a faltering truce to an eighth day, or does mr. netanyahu try to bury these failures with more bombs? i'm now joined by cnn national security analyst beth saner and former deputy director of national intelligence. beth, this has already been pretty clear to be a devastating intelligence failure for israel, but "the times" is reporting that these attacks were planned for years, that they knew about the plans, that they had even previous iterations of these written plans. could this all have been avoided? >> well, you know, it probably never comes down to just one thing, right, or one moment. i think that it's possible, but a lot of things would have to be different because it's not just about paying attention to a report. it's actually about how doo you think about that report? so you had analysts and not just this one analyst that's mentioned here, but you had junior female soldiers on the line looking and reporting similar things weeks before. separate report thes. >> yeah, they saw hamas practicing for this exact attack. >> exactly, so those things reported up, but the mind-set issues are the things that really affected decisions, and they affected decisions that were political decisions. you know, big strategic decisions about where to focus intelligence, and then ult ultimately by seniors to say, well, we don't believe these reports because it doesn't fit with our mind-set. >> when you see a document that is this detailed that is this devastate fing if it were to co into fruition. first of all, how rare is it to come into something like that as an intelligence officer? are you surprised that would not be in any way proactively acted on? >> you can take a parallel. we did have that for the russian invasion basically, and what did cia do with it? they wrote it up, and they talked about the likelihood of it, and they had analyzed it based on that, and so, you know, i would expect -- and i haven't worked directly with israeli military analysts, which are different than the foreign ma sad, but yaou know, i would hav written a pdb on it that said in our organization, this is what this says, and then you say either you think it's right or not, and maybe you have a dissent in there where an agency says they think this is true. >> i think that is now the essential question that will face israeli leaders, perhaps when this war is over. >> definitely. >> but in the meantime, we're learning so much more. thank you so much for joining us tonight! thank you, abby. . and let's get reaction to this reporting from someone who is directly affected by all of this. her husband's cousin and three of her children were held hostage by hamas for more than 50 days. they were, thankfully, released on sunday. that cousin's husband and eldest daughter were murdered by hamas in the october 7th attack. thank you so much for joining us. we just were discussing this report from "the new york times" about what appears to be a clear failure of israeli intelligence on october 7th. what's your reaction to hearing that this plan was in the hands of israeli intelligence officials? >> well, first of all, it's very important for me to say that i trust the idf. i trust its commanders. they're doing the most important and hard work there is right now, and i don't blame the idf, neither the commander, but we are very much heartbroken by what happened and in many ways i think it's very important to say that the only one to blame is the terror organization hamas with the atrocities and massacre and kidnapped our loved ones on october 7th. so it's very important to remember that, they were the one who did it. >> yeah, hamas absolutely responsible, but i wonder what do you think should happen in israel as a result of what was missed here and what could have been done differently to potentially defend israel and your relatives against an attack like this? well, unfortunately -- and i'm saying it with a very heavy heart, my government was busy weakening the judicial system and hurting our democracy throughout this year, and they were too busy on that instead of keeping our borders and keeping the civilians safe, and we are extremely sad and painful and heartbroken by this, and they will need to give us answers, and i hope prime minister netanyahu will take responsibility for his own failure. but once again, the idf soldiers are not the ones to blame, and they are doing the most amazing work right new. they are risking their lives. they're committed to their job and their mission to keep us safe, and to eliminate hamas because that is the most important job right now, and of course we feel betrayed by our prime minister, and by this government, but once again, the only ones to blame is the hamas organization, terror organization. they were the ones taking babies out of their beds, not anyone else. >> we thank you for your perspective on this and joining us on such short notice with this breaking news. we appreciate it. >> thank you. and back here in the united states, the congressman who lies over and over again is now just hours away from learning his fate. george santos is defiant again tonight as the house prepares for rare expulsion vote tomorrow over that damning ethics report that concluded that santos ripped off voters and tried to enrich himself in the process. now, that's in addition to the 23 federal charges that he is facing including allegations of fraud. but he still has some backers as both sides took to the floor of the house this week to make their cases. >> george santos is a liar. >> mr. santos used tragic events in history to try and propel himself to public office. >> i have been convicted of no crimes, mr. pspeaker. >> whatever mr. santos did with botox or only fans is far less concerning to me than the indictment against senator menendez who's holding gold bars inscribed with arabic on them from egypt while he is still getting classified briefings today. >> mr. santos has repeatedly egregiously and brazenly violated the public's trust. >> if they want me out, they're going to have to go silence those people and take the hard vote. >> the facts of george santos' fraud are not in dispute. >> dear god, mr. speaker, my future former colleague is divorced from reality. >> he's got to go. it's time to expel. >> about to go too far, just calm down and step back. >> we are in unchartered waters, unchartered waters, folks. the swamp water is very murky. it's deep, you try to find a lily pad to land on, but for george santos there doesn't appear to be a safe lily pad. >> you, sir, are a crook. >> my colleague wants to come up here, call me a crook, same colleague who's accused of being a woman beater. >> since the beginning of this congress, there's only two ways you get expelled. you get convicted of a crime or you participated in the civil war. neither apply to george santos. and so i rise not to defend george santos, whoever he is, but to defend the very precedent that my colleagues are willing to shatter. >> i want to bring in steven a. smith, host of espn's first take and of the steven a. smith show on youtube. so steven a., is it a slippery slope to expel someone before they're convicted criminally in any kind of allegation? >> well, absolutely, but in the same breath w y, when you're a pathological liar and you've proven that and lied to your constituency en route to winning an election, certain situations may call for different measures. the reality is clear, he misrepresented himself. there was an abundance of lies that he told to his constituency. for crying out loud, i think at one point in time he had lied about his mother being a part of 9/11. he had lied about that along with various other things that that they said he lied about sochl, so when you consider you got elected by completely hose ago constituency, the third district of new york, then something definitely needs to be done. it's incumbent upon his contemporaries within the house to do so. i certainly applaud what they're doing in this situation. i'm not getting into their motives and agenda because we always know there's something behind it. at the end of the day, to stand up and let the american people know that this is not something that we want to be associated with is the right message to send. >> to the point about the ulterior motives, this is politics, so they certainly have them. but there's also just the embarrassment factor of all of this. you know, all of this george santos stuff that he's alleged to have done, it's jut st the latest in a series of just bad behavior of what's happening in the united states government. i mean, how do just regular americans who are looking over at washington, how do they see all of this drama? >> with disgust, to look at grown men and women in the house of representatives, in the senate, our government, our elected officials acting like children, acting belligerent, showing an unwillingness and capability of working together, it's shameful. when we talk about george santos, how did he get elected in the first place, he was lying. he appeared to be a pathological liar. what happens, he gets into office and they don't expel him. you have certain people who were introducing expulsion, but in the same breath you had an abundance of colleagues that did not want to do that. they were concerned about that majority in the senate. my god, we've got like an eight-seat advantage. it could dwindle to seven seats. stop the presses. these are the kinds of things and attitudes they walked around when. y when you hear the accusations levied against him, $60,000 of campaign dollars being used at luxury apparel shops to sephora to only fans for crying out loud. >> to botox. >> true. let's not forget the botox, i mean, the man definitely went to botox and all of this other stuff. in all seriousness whrksen you k at it, in this country you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. but in the same breath when you're an elected official, once upon a time we were taught they were supposed to be held to a higher standard. their standards have dissipated and dissipated dramatically throughout the years. and as i said to you the last time i was on this show with you, i know 22, 25, 35-year-old athletes that aren't elected officials, that aren't government officials that don't have a constituency out there that voted them into office to legislate policy and things of that nature that are held to a higher standard than grown men and women who are elected officials on capitol hill. when it has got than bad and when we are living in a time where we have a presidential candidate that has four indictments and 91 counts against him, and you have people saying that even if he were to be convicted and thrown in jail, we'd still vote for him. that is the state of affairs in america. it is sad. it is pathetic. it is wrong, but it is what it is. >> and look, on this same theme basically, there's elon musk, the owner of x, which is, you know, we know is twitter. he is facing all of this backlash for his recent anti-semitic tweet and the amplification of this anti-semitic narrative on his platform. advertisers have said, no, we're leaving. but now he is saying to them what he feels about that. listen. >> if somebody's going to try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, go [ bleep ] yourself. but -- go [ bleep ] yourself. is that clear? i hope it is. >> i mean, look, he's getting praise among conservatives for that. what do you think? is it admirable? is it self-sabotage? what is going on here? >> it's neither. it's certainly not admirable, let's make sure we're clear about that. there's nothing admirable about him conducting himself the way that he did yesterday. i believe that's when that took place. but in the same breath, you know what, it's not something that's going to have a detrimental effect on him at the end of the day because he has an abundance of people out there who are supportive of him, and supportive of that kind of behavior, and this is what i think that we have to accept -- >> but shouldn't it have a detrimental effect because -- >> of course it should. >> if you are a ceo of a company, if you were a woman and you said that kind of thing. >> let's not confuse what i'm saying. i'm not saying that it shouldn't be. i'm saying that's the way that it is. unfortunately, you have people that can get away with it. again, what have we been lamenting for years? we have been seen not just an ex-president. we've seen an abundance of politician ofs on capitol hill acting as belligerent as you can be, unprofessional and in the working world they would have lost their jobs, but you know what? on capitol hill, if you coax your constituency into supporting you no matter how belligerent or immature or out-of-pocket you are, then you remain in office and you have a vote and that makes you a very significant individual, whether it's 435 in the house or one of 100 in the senate. that's the way that it goes. for me, i look at somebody like you and others, and i got to tell you something, me talking politics from time to time and stuff like, that i actually find myself feeling sorry for y'all. how you all can be subjected to this stuff on a day-to-day basis listening to these folks act like a bunch of damn hooligans for crime out loud, okay? and i know there is no way that that would be tolerated from young athletes who have no impact on anybody. you can turn up the tv, you don't have to pate nice the product and the brand and go to games and support them and all this other stuff. and the litany of criticism and the vitriol that is aimed in their direction for the slightest thing, but these folks on capitol hill seem to get away with everything. that's the time that we're living in. if there's a change that needs to be taking place, it needs to be a return to a significant level of accountability that politicians want to have to face that they no longer have to face. it needs to be reversed, instead of holding kids more accountable and having no patience with them or young men and women accountable with no patience, make sure we exercise that same level of fervor towards our politicians who are supposed to represent us properly instead of embarrassing us at every damn turn. >> all right, stephen a., stand by for us. i want to ask you about donald trump touting an endorsement from a black lives matter activist. plus, dramatic moments inside the capitol today, how rand paul saved the life of joni er ernst, and we'll analyze the highlights from that ron desantis, gavin newsom debate. the black lives matter organization tonight is distancing itself from one of its activists who is endorsing donald trump. now, the former president says he is very honored to have the backing of mark fisher who claims to be an activist in the rhode island chapter, but black lives matter also says fisher is not affiliated with any current chapter. it's interesting that trump is touting anything from black lives matter since he has said this in the past. >> blm and antifa burned down cities, kill people, and nothing hps t happens to them. >> we have antifa and blm who hate our country and burn down o cities. >> many of them who are spreading violence in our cities are supporting an organization called black lives matter. the stated goal of blm organization people is to achieve the destruction of the nuclear family. >> blm, blm, many people were killed. these people -- i'm not trying to justify anything, but you have two standards of justice in this country. >> and stephen a. smith is back with me now. so stephen, it is pretty amazing that trump once knocked black lives matter and now is honored by one of the activists endor endorsements. this comes as biden seems to be in the polls losing some support among black voters. what's your take about what's going on here? >> well, first of all, take a moment to give trump a little credit. i mean here's clearly lying, we know this, but it's what he does. and so what happens is that when he said what he said, if you didn't pay attention, you really did think it was black lives matter that supported trump. if you listened to him as opposed to seeing that it was one person who was an advocate on behalf of the organization some time ago and is still that way to some degree. the reality of the situation is that you had one individual speak up on behalf of him, and you would have thought that trump was the second coming of lyndon b. johnson. i mean, trump alluded to that. he said, hey, he took that as a means to say i'm supported by black lives matter. i'm supported by the black community, oh, by the way, no president has done more for black americans than me sk, and brought up lincoln with a question mark forgetting that it was lyndon b. johnson that signed civil rights legislation and voting rights legislation into law in the '60s. it was barack obama with the affordable care act, so you could feel whatever way you wanted to feel. one could easily make the argument that there were a few others that did more for the african american community than donald trump, as a graduate of an hbcu, winston-salem state, i will give you credit for making sure to funnel some money to hbcus. he does deserve credit for that. i won't deny that. there's a lot of other things that obviously i would challenge him on and certainly that would be one of them. that assertion is wrong, it's a lie, but nevertheless, it's very, very predictable, and he knew that most people wouldn't know better. they would assume it was black lives matter instead of one individual, not necessarily associated with the national arm. >> and look, his republican opponents in the republican primary are attacking him for touting this endorsement. they've already been attacking him for the first step act, which allowed some people to have reduced sentences or leave prison for some non-violent crime. so we'll see how that all unfolds. but stephen a., of course i cannot have you on without asking you about a little bit of sports. tiger woods, he says that he'll quit when he can't win. so his return to the green today was not quite i'm sure what he wanted it to be. he struggled quite a bit. he's been through a lot, especially these last few years. is it time? >> it's been time. we don't want to say that, but it is. when you consider the health issues that tiger woods has had, there's nowhere to go. tiger woods, put him on a golf course for nine holes. he can beat anybody on the planet. go to 18 holes, he still probably could beat anybody on the planet. the issue with tiger woods has rarely been his game, his skills. the issue with tiger woods has been can you walk the course for four days. you start on a thursday, you go through friday and saturday into sunday, can you do it. and the reality is that the car accident, the knees, the back injuries, et cetera, father time is undefeated and at some point in time, i don't care who you are, you hit a wall, and it's father time reminding you, excuse me, your days are up in terms of what you used to be. now, we can find other things for you to do, but what you used to do physically, that is no longer the case, and i think that has been knocking at tiger woods' door for quite some time. he's overcome a lot. he's a champion personified, the greatest golfer that i've ever seen. i will never ever in life root against him, but there does come a moment in time where it's time for you to realize you're just not what you used to be, you're never going to be that again. and in his case it ain't just because of father time, it's because of a plethora of incidents. the car accident, he should have been -- he's lucky to be alive. i've been in california, i've been on that road where his jeep fell over the cliff, and i'm telling you right now, he is very, very, very lucky to be alive. considering all that he's gone through, it's just not about throwing any shade on him. it's just about accepting the fact that your days has come and gone. >> i mean, look, any -- most other people, lesser physical athletes would not really even be thinking about getting back to a professional sport, but tiger woods obviously always wants to try, but we'll see what he ends up doing ultimately at the end of this. stephen a., always great to have you on the show. thank you so much, and everyone, you can watch stephen a.'s show on youtube and obviously "first take" on espn. thanks so much. >> thank you. thank you so much, abby. two governors facing off tonight, one a republican presidential candidate and the other a key democratic leader. florida's governor ron desantis and california's governor gavin newsom talking policy and politics. we'll discuss that next. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? it's true. plus when you buy your first line of mobile, you get a second line free. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. tonight unique and interesting clash between red and blue state governors, governors gavin newsom and ron desantis tackling all manner of policy in an often heated debate. >> you almost have to try to mess california up. that's what gavin newsom has done since he's been governor. >> but there's one thing this closing that we have in common is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024. >> here to break all of this down is republican strategist michael singleton, ashley alison, democratic strategist, karen finny and former trump campaign adviser david irvin who was just chuckling there at that dig at ron desantis. you thought it worked? >> yeah, i think it was very effective. gavin newsom is an incredibly good debater, he is smooth as the other side of the pillow. he's cool, he's a failed governor but really good on television. >> so he should run for president? [ laughter ] >> listen, i think both of those gentlemen would like to see that. that's the lineup they'd like to see, right, obviously, and not too shy about stating it. i think governor desantis had a great opening. good lines that are going to be played over and over again on television. both men did what they wanted to do, showed up and punched each other in the nose, bloodied them and went back to their neutral corners. >> it's clear why this was a good idea for governor newsom, but for ron desantis, when you're trying to say to people i want you to see me as the next president, why are you debating the governor of california? and by the way, his presentation tonight was better than any of the presidential debates. >> maybe that was the point. >> but again, if you can't hold your own on the debate stage with your presidential contenders just because you did well against governor newsom when it's easy to just, you know -- because remember, in a debate like this, they're obviously in different places. it's going to be red versus blue, right? but the point in a primary is to point out, highlight the distinctions between, so i don't think it gets you much with the republican primary voters. >> it seemed pretty clear that gavin newsom viewed his role as being a stand-in for the biden/harris administration. ron desantis had other ideas, but just here's an exchange that kind of unfolded over bidenomics. >> he's joined at the hip with biden and harris. he thinks biden and harris have done a great job. he thinks the economy is working because of their policies for americans and they are not. >> lowest black unemployment in american history, the lowest unemployment for hispanics in american history. the lowest unemployment for women in 70 years. the lowest black poverty rates in history. that's this administration's agenda. here's a guy who celebrated bidenomics just this week, celebrating $28 million that came into your state because of the chips and science act. >> they want to take this bidenomics and they want to double down on this for the next four years. how many people are able to afford groceries now compared to what you were doing three or four years ago? >> so gavin newsom did exactly what a surrogate is supposed to do, state the facts, and then point to the hypocrisy of your opposition in terms of -- and then you accepted money into your state from a policy because of joe biden. the one thing we didn't play there that desantis said afterwards, he said i was talking to a mother the other day who said she had to take groceries out of her shopping cart. that's the first time i've ever heard that. i was like you haven't been in america. i've known women who have had to take groceries out of their cart for a very long time. it shows how he is a little bit out of touch, but i think newsome did a job as standing in as a surrogate and the democrats need to get more folks out there touting the biden record. >> nobody believes it. that's the problem. >> that is the problem. look, i mean, i think newsom is a far better arcticlator on biden's successes if you're a democrat than the president himself. however there's a reason why we continue to have conversations about young black americans not enthusiastic about joe biden, about black americans seeing a 30% decrease in their support of joe biden because bidenomics, whatever you want to call this economic principle is not working. inflation, while it has decreased, most people don't feel it. yeah, people have a job, but they're still struggling to pay for basic necessities. people are not happy about the fact it's difficult to buy a home. if you're a young person and graduating from college, you're struggling to pay back that debt. if you go to college, most people, especially if you're black or dropping out because they can't continue to go through college because they can't afford it. this idea of the incredible economy under the biden administration is nonexistent for most americans including his own party. >> republicans cut pell grants which makes it harder for people to go to college, especially hbcus. >> i'm not disagreeing. what i'm saying is don't tell half the story, read the whole book, so if you don't think bidenomics is working what are the repupolicies the republican parties have. no party is perfect, but the contrast is like, you can't just bash one thing and not have -- >> the conservative is not working, it's democrats who are saying it's not working. >> sher michael is correct. it doesn't marrietter what we t, it's what americans thing. what we feel, it's what people in cleveland and youngstown and aliquippa feel. you know what they feel, they don't feel it's working for them. they're pumping gas, paying for their groceries, like you said, and they hear all these great things and they don't feel it at home. if they don't believe it, it didn't happen. >> can i ask going back to the gavin newsom and ron desantis, i mean, as smooth as gavin newsom is, does that actually help joe biden, or does it just emphasize -- >> sure. >> -- that joe biden is not on that stage? >> actually, it does because, again, it's an opportunity to get in front of a different audience, and again, for people who may not be hearing some of those basic facts that he was talking about, it's an opportunity to get in front of that audience. actually, yes, i think it does help. can we just point out, joe biden has been on the phone getting hostages released from hamas. it's not like the guy's been sitting around. he has been hard at work thoepg d helping to deal with a global crisis. does anybody think that ronlt wou ron desantis would be able to do that on the phone? >> i think so. >> the one thing desantis stumbled on when he was banging on gavin newsom for going to the french laundry. i don't think many people in america are like he's doing his laundry, i don't care if it's french laundry or regular laundry. you have to explain it's like michelin star. >> he's still -- at the end of the day, he's still 40 points behind donald trump in his own state. what does that tell you about what floridians think about the job he's doing. >> listen, i'm a florida resident, i live there. people like the governor. he's doing a great job. they just compare him to trump and they want trump. >> the argument between both governors is about the future compared to the present. >> there's more to discuss from this debate right after this. they're poisoning our people, and joe biden is sitting on his hands. he refuses to take care of the boa border. he refuses to hold the drug cartels accountable. this is the vision of biden, harris, newsom. open borders, americans suffer and americans continue to die because of fentanyl overdoses. there will be unfortunately a terrorist attack at some point that we'll be able to trace back to our southern border. >> i'm the only guy here who's a border state governor. you're trolling folks so you can out trump trump. how's that going for you, ron? you're down 41 points in your own home state. >> back to the table on that fiery debate on this fiery debate, by wait. but it's an interesting point that gavin newsom made at the end, down 41 points trump, or whatever it is, despite these arguments that desantis made today according to you guys, pretty effectively. >> i mean, look, donald trump has been i guess the person to beat for every one of those candidates. i've always argued i'm not certain why we're having a primary process at all. we haven't seen anyone get close to trump. desantis was considered to be the person several months ago when he first announced, this guy is going to be another jeb bush, and no disrespect, david, but i was correct. republican voters at the base don't want anyone else other than trump. so it begs the question, are knee these guys running for second place. if they are, i certainly don't choose donald trump would choose ron desantis. >> are you saying we shouldn't do democracy? we don't do a primary because we don't do democracy anymore? >> that's not what i'm saying. >> i'm just saying it just seems to be a waste of voters' money as a republican candidate. >> all the more reason -- >> give to me when i can win when you know you can't win. >> all the more reason why would desantis think this was a good idea to show up and debate the governor of california. >> on the desantis issue with the migrants, i mean, he did do this, send these migrants from texas, literally, plains from florida to texas to send them to martha's vineyard or wherever, it didn't seem to help him. >> if you're a border state governor like greg abbott f you're in texas and you have people -- >> or in california. >> or in california. look, california's streets are in pretty bad shape. if you're in texas, you're looking at eagle pass and these places are overwhelmed with migrants. there's a legitimate cause, but if you're ron desantis who's having people flown to florida to then fly them to another state, it's artifice, and it didn't work at all, obviously. didn't get any traction. >> it was a kind of disgusting ploy to use with like human people, people who have families and might not speak the same -- >> some of them children. >> yeah. but the point that i think gavin newsom afls was also triying to was will the real ron desantis please stand up. you supported obama's immigration policy and now you're like putting migrants and children who are migrants into this country in really dangerous positions. you supported x, and now you're doing y because you're trying to get to the other side of donald trump, and it's not working. so maybe be authentic and you would do a little better. but the american people don't want that. >> to that point, let me just play a little bit here from the abortion portion of this conversation between the two governors. >> ron desantis signed the most extreme anti-abortion bills in america. he signed a bill banning any exceptions for rape and incest, and then he said it didn't go far enough and decided to sign a six-week ban before women even know they're pregnant, ron. people aren't going on and having abortions -- >> should it be illegal. >> it should be up to the mother and her doctor and her conscience. >> that is really extreme to take your tax dollars and to do this all the way up to the moment of birth. >> on the abortion thing, desantis, he did sign that six-week bill. he wanted to flip it on newsom, but he's not doubling down on his -- >> no, he didn't. and look, part of what newsom did there that was so brilliant, that's the exact problem for the republican party. eight in ten americans agree exactly with what gavin newsom just said. a woman should decide with her doctor. you heard hannity trying to throw in the gop talking points. you heard desantis squeamishly trying to figure out what to say and not say and the problem is it's bad facts. the position is not where the american people are. >> desantis's position is clearly not where the american people are. i think the true position if you acknowledge it is kind of in the middle. if you codified roe v. wade in the first trimester, that's where a lot of states, if you're the state of pennsylvania, you're 23 weeks, there are a lot of states that have made pretty good decision offense this and they feel comfortable, right, and desantis in the state of florida, i think he made a mistake there. and so you see two -- you know, two extreme positions here, both ron desantis putting up there there's been a vote, amongst democrats in the senate before where you had >> listen, they may then take a lot of tough votes. these guys are on the records, and they're pointing out to extreme positions. here's a month immigration, listen, that's gonna be a topic that's brought up by the biden administration wants to go away. they're going to deal with, it they're gonna figure out a way to deal with it. because that's where democrats are very vulnerable, republicans are vulnerable on the dobbs issue, that democrats are vulnerable on the border. >> look at wisconsin -- >> i think you're on the wrong side of this one dave. >> can i say that we don't need to people who are not the nominee is debating on national television. >> let's leave it there on that point, guys. thank you also much, coming up next for us. how one is saved another one's life on capitol hill in a dramatic moment today. alarming up so today when joni ernst was choking, and senator rand paul came to her rescue performing the heimlich maneuver on her during the thursday lunch. ultimately, she was okay, she tweeted that she was fine, she took a job of democrats when she did that. but they were feasting on rib eye, and she was actually hosting that one from iowa. she seemed to be fine at the end of the day, some republicans were relieved as well, including senator lindsey graham who is no fan of grand ball. he said god bless rand paul, i never thought i would say that. abby? >> close call, maduro you, thank you vevery much. we wilill be back k in a momene.