>>the nation will pay tribute to rosalynn carter, the -- 77 years to -- jimmy carter, died over the weekend at 90. six of eight from, today there will be a wreath-laying ceremony at georgia southwestern state university, following that, services at the carter presidential library in two days later, a funeral service for family and friends at the baptist church in plains, georgia where the former president currently in hospice care, taught sunday school for. decades the news continues, the source with kaitlan collins starts now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight, a remarkable clash underway inside the appeals court that is wrestling with the scope of donald trump's gag order. we'll take you inside the heated arguments that happened today. plus, the white house is hopeful and negotiations between israel and hamas for the release of the hostages are, quote close to the end. the and -- being held in gaza, sure hopes, will speak with us in moments. a tech titans at sudden -- has upended the world of artificial intelligence, the shake-up leaves the future of open a. i., and out today with more than half of its employees threatening to walk out. i'm kaitlyn, collins and this is the source. tonight we are watching a decision that could come down at any moment, and would have significant consequences for the criminal defendants and presidential candidate donald trump. three federal judges right now are deciding whether to keep, or get rid of a gag order, in that criminal case in washington d. c., accusing him of plotting to overturn the election. when it was in, place it restricted his ability to directly attack the special counsel, members of his, team court, staff and maybe most importantly potential witnesses at his trial. americans actually got to listen in on these arguments today. >> the order is unprecedented, and it's a terrible precedent for future restrictions on political speech. >> it's only affecting speech temporarily during a criminal trial process by someone who's been indicted as a felon. no one here is threatening the first amendment broadly. >> from what we heard, it sounds like the three judge panel is poised to reinstate at least some version of the gag order. you heard one judge saying there that it does not broadly threaten his first amendment rights, but they also say they may be losing other parts of the scratch, order like allowing trump to criticize special counsel. one judge suggested essentially that jack smith, that special counsel could handle the verbal attacks. >> everyone else is throwing targets at him. >> it can't be that he can't mention mr. smith. >> surely he has a second of skin. >> all eyes tonight are on the d. c. circuit court of appeals, waiting for word and as we wait, joining me now is former federal prosecutor, and cnn legal analyst elliott williams. elliott, i know this is unprecedented, trump is totally blurring the lines between his legal defense, his presidential race,. what do you expect the judges to do? how do they balance that? >> i think they keep some form of gag order in place, but they just carve it up a little bit differently. the charges seem to be signaling that by perhaps opening the gag order up to allowing criticism of jack smith directly, or something like that. look, this is -- we talk about a lot of legal issues in the context of donald, trump and i can say with certainty that the first amendment, free speech is by far the hardest to figure out. this is because everyone in america, regardless of citizenship status is entitled to free speech, no one is entitled to threaten and everybody else. a line between those two can be very complicated, particularly when you're dealing with candidates for office, it is just incredibly complicate x. the judges today, they were very exceptionally bright individuals, all three of. them i know them a little bit in town, here were really struggling with that, soon we'll have to see where they land on this. >> it was fascinating to be able to listen into them go back and forth with the trump attorneys, special counsel's team. if this order is upheld, if it goes back into effect. i think what we could see happen is with the judge here, judge chutkan having to deal with something pretty extraordinary which is what happens if trump violates that gag order? >> enforcement is itself a question. number, one she can warn the former president once again, as he's been warned multiple times in other cases. then you move to this new world of some sort of enforcement order, or often in federal, court what you would do is file a new proceeding, to bring criminal contempt proceedings against an individual. that's never happened before, certainly for a former president. it's one of those unprecedented areas. it's just again, what do you do? one of the questions that came up today was is do you wait for a threat to come? or do you preemptively bar him from threatening anybody. even that is a little bit complicated. it's a little bit tricky. it just remains to be seen how exactly they're going to handle it, -- if he doesn't, and they just want to prevent him from doing it in the future. >> yes, it's no small task for the stretches. we will see what they decide, elliott williams thank you for your analysis. of, course as we wait to see what they decide, this continuing swirl of legal troubles, around the former president, he is still the overwhelming favorite for the republican nomination, at least at this point in time. my next guest is learning new details about what a second trump term in the white house could look like. joining me now with a rare appearance here on cnn, his first on the source, abc news chief warranting court -- jonathan karl who is the author of the new, book tired of warning, donald trump in the end of grand old party, john, carl it's great to have you here. as we're waiting to see what these judges are going to decide, as you heard elliott talk about, it part of the centered on he's been attacking potential witnesses, mike, pants bill, barr general milley. it's kind of trump's dna to do that, he often does it in very personal terms. if the panel rules against him. do you think he'll be able to help himself here? >> it's hard to imagine it. i thought it was very interesting in the proceedings when the charges in questioning the prosecution questioning defense council, they used the example of mike pence. what if trump issued a warning to mike pence before he testified in this case, if he were to testify in an open trial, and said mike pence is a chance once again to do the right thing. we saw what happened on january 6th when trump put so much pressure on pence, it literally unleashed a mob, seeking his execution. trump just a couple of months after that, told me that the mob was chanting, hang mike pence because they were angry. he had absolutely no criticism whatsoever of the people calling for the execution of his vice president. no, i have a hard time imagining even with a gag order that trump won't test of the limits of that gag order. >> you mentioned the last days of the trump white house, and your book, there's a chapter were you kind of see this isolated and defeated trump, he's been banished to mar-a-lago, it's the end of his presidency, and you write about how the days that followed him were kind of bleak, he was spending his days djing on a patio, just this for a remarkable moment from going to the white house, i'm wondering what you think those days, how his first term and it would tell you about what a second trump term would look like? >> well caitlin, one thing i detailed is how in the final weeks, really the final few months of the trump administration, they went about a process of trying to root out all of the people that were in any way disloyal, or not sufficiently loyal to donald trump. johnny mcentee, he's very junior aide, he at one point was just carrying the presidents bags around, and it was put in charge of the white weeks, really the final few months of the trump administration, they went about a process of trying to root out all of the people that were in any way disloyal, or not sufficiently loyal to donald trump. johnny mcentee, he's very junior aide, he at one point was just carrying the presidents bags around, and it was put in charge of the white house personnel office, he led this efforts to root out this loyalists, and by the time you got to january 6th, there were very few people left to challenge the presidents, but there were a few. there were people like white house counsel pat cipollone who tried to keep him from doing things that were blatantly illegal. of course he was gone shortly before january, sixth but bill barr at the justice department, and jeffrey rosen who replaced him. the thing is, i believe based on the reporting in this, book it a second trump term begins with all of those people who would have kept him in check, who did keep him at least partially in check in those final days, of his presidency, would be gone. they would not be there. they're going to hire for loyalty. one of johnny mcatee's top aides back then has put it more recently, loyalty is more important than policy. you can teach policy, but you cannot teach loyalty. they are going to make sure that this is not a team of rivals, not a team of people supporting the constitution first and foremost, but a team of people supporting at all costs donald trump. >> it also speaks to how he viewed people who supported biden. you write that he hung up on kin kardashian, at one point because he assumed that she had voted for joe biden. >> he does not want to deal with any disloyalty whatsoever. he saw that as a betrayal. by the way, he had no idea who kim kardashian actually voted for. kim kardashian, who -- for criminal justice reform, was going and trying to get his help in seeking a pardon, in -- clemency for someone who is on to, throw and trump did not want to hear about. it he just wanted to berate her over the, phone you want help from me? you want me to help you after you voted for joe biden? so that is, that's the attitude, it's loyalty above all costs. it is loyalty above policy. it is loyalty a not to a constitution, or to the country, but loyal to donald trump. >> and you know, when i think about this, over the weekend when we saw what happened in argentina, the leader who won there, as we covered the, white house you saw trump had this affinity for these strongman leaders. he is congratulating this newly elected president of argentina, someone who has drawn comparisons to, trump because of a populist message, embracing conspiracies, what do you make of looking at what a second trump could potentially look like? the way that his style has spread overseas. >> well, and i think that he, it's his style that has, spread but it also feeds over. that he admires these strongman leaders, whether it be putin, or president xi, or kim jong-un. or viktor orban and hungary that knew the -- leader of argentina. there is an incident that i wrote about that never came to light before the very end of the trump white house, the leaders of the army put out a statement, this is the chief of staff of the army and the secretary of the army, putting out a statement, do you remember when michael flynn had come out and called for martial law, suggesting there could be martial law to rerun the election, and the leaders, the active duty leaders of the army put out a simple statement saying there is no role for the u.s. military in determining the outcome of an american election. very basic fundamental stuff here, there is no role for the u.s. military to determine the outcome of an election, trump was infuriated, and directed his man johnny mcatee to make sure that that never happened again, reported back to, him he had spoken to the secretary of defense, who spoke to both those ami leaders, and assured him it would never happen, again and it fitted they would both be fired. i think that trump in a second term kind of fancies himself as somebody that will be the commander, not just of the executive branch, but the military. the commander in chief, but not in a way of the traditional sense that you see presidents, but that they will respond to him on all things, including things domestically. whether it be the insurrection act, putting down rioters, or whatever he had in mind with what they would do in terminating the outcome of an election. >> john carl, it's a lot of good reporting in this book, very important read. thank you for joining us here on cnn. >> thank you caitlin. >> great to have you, someone who is trying to prevent that term, with everything he's, got his 2024 republican primary opponent chris christie, he will join me plus families of hostages met with the israel prime minister today, they want answers, that comes amid optimism from the u.s., we'll speak to a family member of an american hostage right after this. fighting. but i should note nothing has been agreed to, yet nothing is final. we've been speaking to israeli officials regularly about how fluid these talks, are where they are going. they've been urging a lot of caution. but what we do know is that the pressure on the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is only growing more intense tonight. the families of israeli hostages met with him in a war cabinet earlier, they want answers and it written commitment to bring their family members home. three year old abigail dawn is the youngest known american hostage. her parents were killed in the october 7th attacks. i'm joined now by her great aunt, liz hearst naftali. we should point she was a point to the u.s. commission for these tonight, and -- when the deal is closed, have you gone have you gotten any information about a deal from the u.s. or anybody, about israel? >> we hear what you hear, we hear what everyone has been hearing. it's frustrating, because throughout this whole time, it's been dark. we have been metaphorically it's dark, we don't know, and virtually, it is dark for these people that are in gaza. we have no answers. people think that we are getting specific information. and just like everybody, we hear very close to having a deal. until we actually see hostages released, we really don't know anything. >> and you are wearing the number on your jacket of how many days she has been held in gaza. i mean, if you could speak to those people who are negotiating, the -- who are negotiating these talks, what would you want them to know? >> well, first, 44 is the amount of days since these innocent civilians were of deducted and taken as hostages. and i wear this in solidarity with rachel colbert, whose son hirsh was kidnapped, taken, his arm blown off, and was taken as a hostage. and we have been wearing this to really make it clear that 44 days, how long abigail, she is a three-year-old little girl. there are over 30 children. there is over 50 children and mothers. i cannot imagine as a mother what it is like to be somewhere in the dark, without the family. and abigail is an orphan. abigail's parents were murdered on october 7th. and she is with -- >> how her siblings doing? i know they survived living in a closet. >> they survived. and you know, how are six and a ten year old are after surviving -- after seeing both their parents murdered? they have a beautiful family. they have a loving family. and they are able to be themselves and to talk about what happened and to share what happened. and they're very much forward in telling what their stories are. and they're with their grandparents and with their aunts and uncles, many of whom survived from the kibbutz. so they're part of the community, and i grew up with them nearby. >> i cannot even imagine the trauma that a six and a ten year old would feel over this. >> i can't. >> and when you talk about abigail, her fourth birthday is this friday. what do you think about when you think about the fact that she could be turning four and trapped in gaza? >> wow, i can't imagine, i can't imagine her having a birthday and turning for. living alone, without her family, and i think about her sister and brother. and there one hope is that abigail comes home. and for them to have her come home before friday and to be there and to have her celebrate her birthday in their arms is a dream i have. and i just imagine, i keep hoping that each day we wake up and we hear that there really is a release. because you know, you think about that, a nine month old child turns ten months as a hostage. and you think of abigail turning for as a hostage. these are innocent civilians, these are children that -- babies. and sue, you know, i just keep hoping and believing and there is been so much outpouring of love and support from people across the world, people from all different backgrounds. it's a humanitarian issue. this is not political, these are people who are innocent civilians. and i just keep thinking as a mother having a child as a hostage, it is -- it's inconceivable, to be honest. >> it is inconceivable. and i hope you know that we are all thinking of you. and we realize how important it is to tell your stories. and we are hopeful for abigail and everyone, they all come home. >> thank you, thank you for letting me tell our story. you know, i just want to tell you, i keep abigail's picture with me all the time. and this is the strength, because when i look at this picture, i believe that she is going to come home and be with her family and we are going to embrace her. and we'll be able to bring home the hostages. >> thank you, liz. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you, and we're hopeful for that as well. >> thank you. >> of course, israel has been a massive topic on the campaign trail, even here at home. we are going to speak with the candidate, a candidate who went there, chris christie. he just spent time on the ground in israel. he is a new warning for voters tonight. he will l join us lilive in moments.s. > >> tonight, on the ground in new hampshire, governor chris christie with a new warning for voters who are considering making donald trump the gop nominee. >> if trump is the nominee, because of trump is the nominee, i bet, you manchin is going to run. and you could have a situation where nobody gets to 270. and then it goes the house of representatives. if you think our country is divided now, imagine when that happens. those jokers took three weeks to pick a speaker. imagine how long it will take them to pick a president. and who knows where that will end up. >> that could be a nightmare scenario, but one that governor kristi clearly sees as a possibility. the former jersey governor and presidential candidate is here with me. now governor christie, you know, i think half that audience broke out of a cold sweat, the other in hives, when you said that. do you really think that could happen? >> sure. it absolutely is a possibility. look, the country has been very clear, kaitlan. a lot of times when poland gets close you can wonder if it's true or not. but i have seen the polling that you have seen, which is 75% or more of the people and the united states don't want it to be a trump biden matchup. and if that's what it turned out to be, you would be in a situation where i would think for sure you would see these no labels folks coming in, joe manchin or some other candidate, would come into the race. and then, we really could have a situation where nobody gets to 270. so i think that is another risk that republican voters have to consider when you're considering whether or not to vote for donald trump. >> and i mean, there is a plan for what would happen there, and basically, each state would get a single vote. and right now, if you look at republicans control 26 state delegations, democrats have 22. this is obviously farfetched, i should note. but given the presence of these third-party candidates and potential candidates right now, i mean, how destabilizing the fear that scenario would be? >> look, i think the country would be horribly dividing by that kind of result. and let me make clear to the people watching tonight, i did not bring this up out of thin air. i got asked a direct question about the potential impact of third party candidates on the race, and i think that's a real risk. but it just again shows you and goes to the bigger point, kaitlan, which is that donald trump cannot win this election straight out. and the problem is that he is out there arguing his case to a limited audience. he is not spending any time on tv, like i am with you, answering questions. he is not doing town hall meetings. he goes out, he gives a two-hour rambling speech for half the time he cannot even remember who he is running against. says he's running against barack obama. it's the vindication and vengeance tour, where he is going to go out and tell all the people that he is going to get to, if he's president again. this is hardly inspiring stuff. and i think that's why you see the country so against a trump biden rematch. >> you mentioned that sometimes he gets where he is, mixed up, that's something that we often hear the white house bring up when people are talking to president biden's age. i just have to ask you, given that this letter was released by the former president today, saying that he is an excellent health, and has excellent cognitive exams. he doesn't have any details or test results are specifics or a way to independently verify it. do you trust that letter? >> well, no. if it's anything like the letter he got in 2016, he rode it himself and just had some doctors sign it for him. so, no i don't put any credit behind the letter, kaitlan. and look, the fact is that what is getting to donald trump is less age and more pressure, because he knows the walls are closing in on him. he is getting ready to go to trial. he's in the midst of a trial right now for his business in new york. he is getting ready to go to trial the day before super tuesday, for what happened on january 6th. and he knows that mark meadows, his former chief of staff, one of the founders of the freedom caucus, is going to testify against him, and testified that he committed crimes and that he directed mark meadows to commit crimes. this is devastating stuff that donald trump knows the walls are closing in. and i think that's affecting him more than his age. >> let's talk about you, because in cnn's latest poll of new hampshire primary voters, you are at 14% behind nikki haley, she's at 14%. donald trump is still atop, you've got 42%. you dropped out of the race in 2016 after you are sixth in new hampshire. how well do you need to do in new hampshire to justify staying in this race? >> got to do well, kaitlan. and i'm not going to put a place on it now. but you know, i will know it when i see it. and you have seen me operate before. if i don't think i do well enough, i will get out of a race. i'm no interest in being a spoiler. i have an interest in being president of the united states. and if i am rewarded by the voters of new hampshire with a strong finish, i'm gonna take this thing all the way to the convention. and i think that is exactly what is going to happen. >> so you only stay in this race through the convention if you have a strong finish in new hampshire? >> yes, i will. >> what about south carolina. i mean, does that -- is it only based on how you do in new hampshire? is that the stakes that fall that matter? >> well, no. look, i think the race is going to narrow significantly. and you know, when you get to south carolina, i assume that nikki haley has to win south carolina. i mean, for heaven's sake, it's her home state, i would hope she has to win. if she does not win there, i think that's a problem. and quite frankly, she's, you know, said she is went to second place in iowa. so there's high expectations for her now. and we will see if she meets them. >> well, i mean, donald trump is certainly polling above her in south carolina. it would be quite something if she did win that state. donald trump, you know, as you noted, he's not -- >> hold up, kaitlan, hold on for second, kaitlan. hold on for a second. she is a two term governor of south carolina. if you don't win your home state, which state exactly are you going to win? >> that's the question for everybody. i mean, donald trump is pulling above everybody in every state. >> i understand that. but i will tell you this, we had a primary in new jersey, you can count on the fact that i would win it. >> [laughter] okay. governor christie, we will see what the numbers look like there. donald trump though, as you noted, has repeatedly refused to show up to the republican debates. you have said before you are going to follow him around the country, because he was absent on that debate stage. why haven't we seen you do so? >> i've tried, i try to new hampshire. i was shot out of the building in new hampshire the day he registered for the ballot. his campaign closed the entire state house, along with the secret service, instead only people invited by the trump campaign could go into the building. so you know, unless you are willing to kiss his rear end, he can get anywhere near him. and that just shows how afraid he is of seeing me face to face and confronting his record and his failure on behalf of the people of this country. so i'm gonna keep trying. but he, and his campaign uses the secret service to keep people away. >> governor chris christie, as always, thank you for your time tonight, following that town hall in new hampshire. >> kaitlan, thank so much for having me, and happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving to you and your family as well. tonight, we are seeing a growing revolt in the tech world that could have implications for really everybody. the ceo of openai dramatically ousted and now the majority of the 800 employees left behind are threatening to quit. we will fill you in on the artificial intelligence drama, righght after ththis. tonight, we are seeing a massive power shift within an industry that they want to impact every part of our lives. microsoft announcing that it has hired sam altman to lead its artificial intelligence group. that came just days after his surprise firing of the ceo of the company he cofounded, openai. that's the company that created the popular artificial chatbot that you may have heard of, chatgpt. but the drama here is not over yet, or even close, it appears so. hundreds of employees are now to leave openai over his ouster. and there are reports that he could potentially end up back there. all of this is important to watch. we are talking about technology that even bill gates says is as revolutionary as the internet. joining me now to talk more about this is the professor of marketing at nyu's stern school of business, scott galloway. scott, i'm so glad to have you on to talk about this. because i think there are a lot of people at home who may have no idea what openai is or chatgpt. but the artificial intelligence industry is booming right, now it's important, and it could eventually affect every single one of us. what do you think and how would you explain sam altman's firing and the move to microsoft and what that means for his company and for a.i. generally? >> good to be with, you kaitlan. i don't think i've been on your show before. this is extraordinary, unprecedented. you had a company that at the close of business on friday was worth more than general motors and ford. and as of tonight, maybe worthless, because according to wired, 90% plus of the entire employee base it says they will go to microsoft if sam altman is not reinstated. i think on sort of a metal level it sorted is a figure or collision between a nonprofit board and a very capitalist commercial minded management team. and the two just collided. but we've never seen anything like this. i think the big winner here is microsoft. i would bet in the next 48 hours, either microsoft controls openai, because sam has been reinstalled air and microsoft becomes the biggest owner with the most board seats. i can't imagine -- the board will resign in mass here, because the board is supposed to be a fiduciary. and i'm not read the room in terms of shareholders or employees. on a level to wrap up here, we should all hope the board is wrong. [laughter] and i think an interesting question would be, what was it that had some so alarmed here that they would unceremoniously fire a ceo who's built 90 billion in value? this is a big deal, i've never seen anything like it. >> yeah, and they've references communications with the board, saying he was not candid. but they haven't produced any smoking gun or told anyone what exactly it was that led to his ouster. but i think what the bigger question when you look at a.i. generally is, there is verily clearly a rift in this world of people who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and people who are worried about how fast it is growing and the danger that that pace to pose. does that have anything to do with this? >> well, that's what it appears the fish and here is. but i'd argue it represents something bigger, and that might be the beginning of the end of esg investing. and if you look at the corporate structure and the governance structure, it just looks ridiculous. there is all these different entities that supposedly had total control over another entity. and what appears to have control here is money and shareholder value, full stop. that the notion of trying to collide effective capitalism, whatever the term was, effective altruism, excuse me, combined with a for profit mindset, the two just don't work. and i think more broadly, people are questioning esg, and that is esg funds have dramatically underperformed, funds that just pursue a profit motive via elephant. and i think this is the ultimate indication or collision of that, and that is you are either a for profit entities seeking commercial success, or you are a nonprofit thinking about risk to humanity. and the two apparently do not to exist here. yeah, i think there's room for concern. >> that's really fascinating, the idea that you think this is the end of that, that this is something that could -- i mean, we've seen that argument made by a lot of executives and billionaires who say yes she doesn't work. does this bolster that argument or just show how it conflicts, i guess? >> i think it bolster -- like i said, i think this is the beginning of indian vested. because you had a board that basically, to give them the benefit of the doubt, there is something they were worried about, they were worried about the combination of trying to err on the side -- they try to err on the side of risk to humanity, it appears. they got very concerned. and the management team and, and it appears 90 plus percent of the employee base, was airing on the side of being more commercially aggressive. and the reality is capitalism and the pursuit of shareholder value trounced the concerns that the board had. i've never seen a switch like this. this was a board that got caught so flat-footed. talk about the mother of not reading the room. but you can make this same argument, correctly or incorrectly, good for humanity, that for humanity, for all of esg investing, which has dramatically under performed, hedge funds, investors, that are more focused on just finding alpha and getting profits. i think this represents a much bigger issue that people claim be considered more broadly about humanity and companies that are unfettered by this concern in just go after profits, and there's no evidence that these two can peacefully coexist in a current capitalist model. >> no. and you can't run a company without those employees. scott galloway, really interesting conversation, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> ahead, it is a old thanksgiving tradition at the white house that was overseen by america's oldest president. >> it's my birthday today, and they can actually sign birthday cards. [applause] i just want you to know, it's difficult turning 60. >> [laughter] >> it's difficult. >> you heard some laughs there in the rose garden, but some argue his age is no joke. we will talk about that on his 81st birirthday, nexext. >> >> as you oversaw the white house tradition of pardoning to turkey's for the thanksgiving holiday, president biden had this quid on his 81st birthday. >> by the way, it's my birthday today and they can actually sign happy birthday to me. i just want you to know, it's difficult turning 60. it's difficult. [laughter] >> obviously, you see the president laughing it off. obviously, when you look at polls, voters certainly aren't, because it regularly registers as a concern for them. something that the former senior adviser to president barack obama, david axelrod has been warning about for sometime now. he even told the new york times this about president biden saying, quote, i think he has a 50/50 shot here, but no better than that. maybe a little worse. he thinks he can cheat nature here and it's really risky. here tonight with me is alyssa farah griffin, a former trial -- and ashley allison, former obama white house senior policy adviser. therefore, actually, i'm going to start with you. the white house is obviously trying to use biden's age as they're making fun of it. they posted this photo tonight on instagram where he's got this birthday cake with about 1000 candles in front of him. they're trying to laugh off these concerns. i think the question is, is that strategy going to work here? >> look, everybody knows how old joe biden is. it is not going to change. people knew that when he elected them in 2020. to his piece about being a 50 50% chance, i feel like that's the case in almost every presidential election at this point. you cannot take any race for granted, including this one coming up in 2024. i also think outside of the presidents age, people want to see a policy portfolio that align to their values and aligns with their pocketbooks. so, the biden administration, the biden campaign is going to have to go out and to really sell what they have been doing, how they've been governing in these last three and a half years, and how they will continue to do that for a second term. i think people can step aside from his age of 81 and they agree with his policy decisions when compared to donald trump, most people. do >> speaking of trump, alyssa, his campaign released his letter today saying that he is in excellent health, his cognitive exams. i think we all remember man, woman, person, camera when he said he had taken that test. donald trump, if he's reelected, will be 83 at the end of his second term. what concerns do you think the voters have about his age as well? >> not to put that out on joe biden's 81st birthday. listen, the problem in politics is that perception often becomes reality. the reality is 73% of americans think joe biden is too old. at least his age is a major factor in the election. when you look at how donald trump is perceived to 77, he's not much younger than joe biden, the numbers are very different, people see him as having more stamina, being somebody who is healthier. he's not perceived as old as biden. so, at the age factor, i don't know that hurts trump as much. that should not be the primary issue that we're dealing with. listen, voters care about it, but donald trump and joe biden could not have a darker contrast of two individuals. i think the fact that jordan keeps leading into the age is not helpful. i think the idea that he should make jokes about it, i think he should be putting forward a policy agenda. the washington post said he does not have a field staff in the five key states. that's with him to be focusing. >> when you look at what those swing states look at, what the numbers look like, actually, if there's a new poll from nbc showing 73% of young voters between 18 and 34, they do not approve of the way that president biden has been handling the israel-hahamas war. obviously, he won young voters in 2020 by a very comfortable margin. what do you make of that change and how the white house addresses that with a year to go before the election? >> i think this is a very important issues that i do not really know if it is a campaign issue, because the reality is, a campaign just pushes a governing agenda of the person who was actually in office. listen, we cannot, democrats cannot lose young voters, they cannot lose black voters, they cannot lose progressive voters on this issue. so, what's people are saying is that, particularly, the young people in this country are saying, look, we put our trust in you, and we're saying this election cycle we're going to vote with our values and our morals. we want you to hear us now a year out that were not aligned and how you are handling this, and we want to have a conversation with you. it's different than when it was in 2020 and we were having those same similar tough conversations with young voters, because the reality is, at that point, he was and vice president joe biden and he was not governing. so, it's not about making commitments, it's about how are you governing right now? i think the biden administration should really take key to that and consider an alternative approach. it's not just a progressive left, its faith leaders, it's the pope, it's the king institute, that have called for different approach to this israel hamas conflict. i think administration is going to have to take notice of that if they want those ordered to stay in their coalition come 2024. >> alyssa, there is a moment where you used to work in camps in the white house, you're very familiar what it's like to come out to that podium. we saw john kirby who is from the national security council obviously there today, responding to this nickname that biden has gotten from people who disagree with the fact that he has not called for a cease-fire, calling him genocide joe. this is what he said from the briefing room today. >> they've been calling him genocide joe, right on the gates, you have a response from the white house? >> we're not worried about nicknames and bumper stickers. its first amendment free speech. >> moral clarity leadership john kirby is an excellent public servant, and i will say that where the biden administration is as many independents are and frankly moderate republicans. i hope they continue strong support for israel. >> thank you both. great to have you both on. up next, shocking scene is happening right now off the coast of hawaii. you see this in here. that's a play that's as big as it looks, how everybody on board had survived, and what's happened.