tonight, straight from the source, joe manchin is an outgoing senator. but is he also an outgoing democrat? i asked him that question directly tonight as he now says that he would consider a bid for the white house while insisting he is not going to be a spoiler. president biden just wrapped up a crucial press conference in san francisco after meeting with china's president and fielding questions about israel's war with hamas, backing up israel's claim that there's a hamas command and control center beneath the largest hospital in gaza. nikki haley partially walking back a campaign pledge made just yesterday after setting off a firestorm over suggesting a ban on anonymous social media users. this is "the source." tonight, we begin with our one on one with senator joe manchin who is not running for re-election in the senate but considering running for president. amid a lot of speculation about what he has planned next, he is openly acknowledging that he is, quote absolutely considering a potential run for president. he is dismissing concerns, a lot coming out of the white house right now, that he could be a spoiler for president biden. manchin's departure from the senate is threatening to shake up the balance of power on capitol hill. democrats there have a slim two-seat majority in the senate. let's go straight to the source tonight. joining me now is democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia. senator, thank you for being here. senator schumer -- >> thanks for having me. i appreciate it. >> thank you for being here and for your time. as you know as well as i do, senator schumer wanted you to run again. you announced that you are not going to be doing so. do you think democrats can keep the senate majority without you? >> he with will see. here is the thing. everybody is worried about the majority. i understand that. it does set the committees and sets the agenda. it still takes 60. it takes 60 to pass something. every senator has a tremendous amount of power, whether you are in the majority or minority. majority is the best place to be. we will see. we have good people. >> there's a lot of key races. you have talked a lot in your time on capitol hill about bipartisanship in the senate. senator mcconnell praised you for saving the filibuster, which he said preserved the senate. then he flew to west virginia and directly recruited your most formidable challenger. do you feel betrayed by that? >> that's politics. this is not the most honorable profession in the world anymore. with that being said, it's all about the next election and it's all about the party system. that's the problem. the business of politics has gotten so big because the business model is a democratic business and a republican business. they forgot about the people. all they want is 51 or greater to be in the majority. then they do so much damage trying to get there that when they get there, they are not close to 60. if you want to get something done, you have to have 60. it's a horrible situation when every time you are in cycle, you are up, it could be one of your better friends only the other side. if you have a d by your time, an r by your name, you are supposed to be against the other person. it never used to be like that. it used to be an unwritten rule. now, this is fair game. there's no way that where we come from, whether alabama or west virginia, that you try to get someone fired every day you go to work and expect they will be your best friend next week. it doesn't work. >> that makes it sound like -- are you going to leave the democratic party? >> you know, i'm -- i don't know if i -- i never considered myself a washington democrat. i've been an independent person. >> does that -- that sounds like you are leaving. >> well, no. you have a d or r by your name, it shouldn't identify who you are. if you change who you are because you change, you have a d, then you have an r, or i, people go back and forth, it's more for the person's political than more for what the person is. i'm interest thinking. i vote interest. >> you are considering that? >> sure. absolutely. >> is it likely you will leave the democratic party? >> i'm sure they might throw me out. who knows? i don't know. >> since you made your announcement last week, have you spoken to president biden? >> i have not spoken to him. i got a nice note from him. he has been traveling quite a bit. i'm sure we will be talking. >> what did you make of his statement that he did put out? he was tieing you to all of his big accomplishments that he has had in office. it seemed like he was sending a clear message with that statement. >> the clear message is this, nothing would have happened without bipartisanship. i've been leading the charge on bipartisanship on every piece of legislation. i'm happy that they think some of it has been good. i'm not pleased with how they are trying to implement the ira. i've been keeping -- holding their feet to the fire on that. we have done some great things. we did that with a 50/50 senate. that senate, it was started by bipartisanship, myself, susan collins, mitt romney. we worked on all the bills. we wanted to make sure the insurrection never happened again. then you go down the line. bipartisan infrastructure. it was pulled out -- i pulled that out of the bbb because it was something we truly had to have. we hadn't fixed any of our infrastructure for 30 years. you look at that and you look at all the things we have done. it was unbelievable. >> you have said you were proud of that legacy, not just that, what you have accomplished for the people of west virginia. the question is what you are going to do next. you are very clearly exploring a third party run. are you worried that a third party run for white house could damage that legacy? >> let me just say this. everyone is talking about a third party run. i'm talking about basically trying to resurrect the middle, the moderate middle, sensible, common sense middle. i don't care what you say or what people might be thinking. they are telling me we had enough. we can't take it. it's so much -- you have donald trump normalizing attacks on human beings. anybody that doesn't agree with him he is after. i have said this, the country would be in a horrible situation challenging our democracy if he got re-elected. i said this very clearly. he believes that truly the only fair election is the one he wins. he believes that the law only applies to everybody but him. he attacks anybody that doesn't agree with him. he uses these horrible analogies of so many good americans just because they might not be in his bandwidth, if you will. it would be horrible. no truly concerned for the rule of law who we are as americans, what we are about. and that's the thing we are talking. i have been to a certain extent on president biden, he is not the person we thought that was getting elected being a moderate. he has been pushed so far to the left. if we have this movement in the middle, maybe we can pull people back to a common sense middle. this is a long run. it's not just for the next election. we're in this. we have americans together. my daughter is taking that and running with that. we will help people anywhere we find, democrat or republican, that wants to work for the betterment of the country. >> what you said there about donald trump and then you said you believe joe biden -- president biden has been pushed too far to the left. which one do you think is a bigger threat to america, a second term of donald trump? >> donald trump i think -- we would lose democracy as we know it. he has no regard whatsoever for the rule of law, who we are as a country. basically, the ordinarily transfer of power. so many problems as far as within our system that he has no regard whatsoever. >> that's the white house argument as well as to why they don't believe you should run, because they believe that if you did you would take votes from biden and represent re-elect donald trump. >> i'm not going to be a spoiler. i'm not looking for any spoilers. i'm looking for how we will govern this country from the middle. you cannot run your life from the extremes. you will not be successful. it's very difficult. you will not have a successful business if you are in extremes. you can't continue to run this country. you can't have open borders, runaway debt, the problems we have, the challenges, crime and all the things we have to fight. we have two of our allies fighting for their life in israel and ukraine that we are trying to prevent ourselves from getting pulled into a war. there's so much going on. president biden has worked well overseas with our allies. he has done a good job. right now, it's going to be serious. we have to get our financial house in order. we have to secure our borders. we have a lot of people that come here that need to have work visas to pay their own way and pay taxes rather than sucking off the system. >> you said you never want to be a spoiler. how and when would you know if that's the case? >> i think -- as i said before, this is the long run. we are out there trying to say, hey, are you happy? why did you leave? i have friends that left. why did they leave so early? are they frustrated with the system? i know their answer. i'm saying, i want them to be more public. if they can come out and start talking about what they saw, what was wrong, and what had to be fixed, then we can start building from that core again. right now, there's not that many in the middle. you know that. not that many centrists. we're not sure how they will vote. you pretty much know most will vote party line. whether democrat or republican. they never did know for me because i was going to look at the issue and vote what i thought would help my country, my state and i could go home and explain it. if i couldn't explain it, i don't care whether democrats or republicans come after me, i wasn't going to support something or be against something just because they wanted me to do it. >> you said -- you are clearly not going to vote for donald trump. you said it would be bad for democracy. you want president biden to make changes. what changes are you -- do you want to see from the white house? >> first of all, we don't know who -- we have suspected that it looks as if we will have a rematch. we don't know where that's going to go. the bottom line is that i believe that president biden has been pushed to the left. he feels like that's where the base -- where he thinks he has to go. how many times have they spoken about the inflation reduction act as an energy security. have they said about it paid down $230 billion of debt? >> are you saying you don't think president biden should run again? >> i'm not asking or telling anybody what to do. my goodness, no. i'm hoping they see there's a movement and he can come back to where he started from. that's the election in 2020. or anybody else. i want to make sure we have a movement of senators that we are bringing here, democrats and republicans, that will be happy to be in the middle because they have support. >> do you think that joe biden could beat donald trump if that's the rematch? >> i can't predict. you know what? the only poll i believe is election day poll. i'm seeing all kinds of numbers. >> if it's those two, who would you vote for? >> it looks very challenging right now. i will wait and see where we have -- who we have in this. let's see what happens. there's a lot to happen. >> you are making your decision on whether to enter the race by super tuesday? >> that's been said -- super tuesday is when you are going to know exactly who the candidates are going to be by the respective parties. democrat and republican business machine is going to make their determination what they're going to do. you will have both of them playing to the extreme. >> when do you make your determination? >> that's when anything would be starting, if there's people that we have someone that's going to run for the middle or move into the middle and make a run, that's probably when it would start. i would assume. there's no need to start before that. you don't have to be in a primary. again, i want to tell you, this is the long haul. this is beyond the 2024 election. this is '26 and '28. this is getting people to understand, there is support. the people want you to make reasonable, responsible decisions, not be party line votes. it's awful the way that we have kind of shoved people to their respective corners and expect that's the way we're going to have democracy and have any type of leadership position. i can tell you, if we don't get our act together what you saw yesterday, the behavior -- these are good people. i know them all. how they got themselves worked into a frenzy like that where they wanted to fight, calling each other names, this is not a banana republic, it's not a third world country. this is the united states of america. people are looking at us for leadership. they are looking for us as a superpower of the world to show them how civility, democracy, freedom, how you maintain it. >> senator joe manchin, as always, thank you for your time. >> thanks. i appreciate being with you. >> you heard senator manchin saying he doesn't think he would be a spoiler if he does enter the presidential race. there's a question about the history of what third party bids often have done. we will break down that interview. that's right after this. you saw president biden in san francisco wrapping up a crucial meeting with the chinese president and taking questions on israel. those highlights ahead. you just heard from senator joe manchin. he is not running for re-election, sharing his thoughts on president biden, a possible second term for former president trump, and whether or not he is considering leaving the democratic party all together. joining me now is jamal simmons, the former communications director for vice president harris and esse cupp. >> i'm sure they took them the way they take everything with senator manchin, wait and see what he actually does. i think there's a lit tle bit o theater to joe mananmanchin. i think he's a democrat. he is a legitimate democrat. he has been a democrat his entire life. the question is, does he feel like there's something in it for him running for president other than just supporting joe biden? he says the president has been pushed to the left. i'm not sure what it is that he means. he passed a lot of bipartisan legislation. he talked about some of it, including what we see with israel where he is not going to the left. i'm not sure what the too far to the left biden looks like. >> the left would not always agree. student loan debt, israel. what did you make of the comments about not just that but -- he is worried about what a donald trump second term would do to democracy. he made very clear what he thought. the question is that he could potentially help with that. >> a couple things. i found that interview -- great job. i was confused by what joe manchin was saying. he correctly identified lots of problems. extremism on both wings of the party, the threat that donald trump is to democracy. all that is true. the lack of civility. i'm not sure what he is proposing to do about it himself. he is not telling us if he is running. he is saying, we will be here in the middle. for what? i don't know who joe manchin's fans are. he was popular in west virginia, although, not popular enough now to win re-election. he isn't popular enough to win re-election in west virginia even if he leaves the democratic party. i'm not -- who are manchin's constituents, if he is contemplating a run? yes, of course, he would be a spoiler. of course. with someone like joe biden, whose poll numbers are not great, of course he would be a spoiler for a weak incumbent. >> the thinking is that if it's biden and trump, trump has a solid base of support. biden's is squishier. what do you make of the timing of him saying he believes it's around super tuesday a decision would be made. >> i have seen a lot of presidential campaigns wait to jump in. i have never seen one of them work. usually, when you want to run for president, you go out, raise money, you put a team together and you run for president. >> early. >> you don't sit around and wait to see what the wind is going to do. i worked on one of those campaigns. it's not fun. if joe manchin wants to be president, he should put it together and get into the democratic primary. he has a couple weeks left. get into the primary and see what happens along with the other folks. >> that doesn't seem to be -- if he runs -- he is making it sound like he is going to leave the democratic party. he didn't say yes outright. we pressed him on it and he made clear what he thinks about the democratic party, at least in washington. >> yes. i think obviously if he does, that's an indication that he has a -- he wants a future in politics. there's no point to leaving the party if you are going to leave office. just stay the democrat you believe you are. i think if we do see that switch, clearly he thinks he has a future either running for president or in some -- as a third party voice for maybe future elections. listen, he is a prolific fund-raiser. in the past five years he raised money from 50 billionaires, with a b. he raised a lot of money. corporations love him. fox news loves him. he has a lot more fans on the right than the left. maybe he wants to be a fund-raising juggernaut. he doesn't have no future in politics. i'm not sure he has a future as the president. >> let me say this, i think it's also pretty exciting to be wooed by everyone. everybody wants you to jump in. everybody wants to see which way you will vote. the minute you decide to run for president and it doesn't work out, the wooing ends. i think politicians like joe manchin are very aware that there's a moment where they lose the sexy. i'm not sure he wants do that. >> that's a weird image. we have breaking news that we are following. president biden just speaking. a solo press conference where he backed up israel's claim that hamas does have a headquarters underneath that hospital in gaza, the largest hospital there, that's still being raided by the idf tonight. that's ahead. breaking news tonight, as president biden wrapped up his first conversation in a year with the chinese president xi jinping. big conversations on u.s./china relations. fielding questions in the subsequent press conference on what's happening with israel and hamas. this press conference just wrapped a few moments ago. mj lee was there. you were talking to president biden about this, the high level military communication that he was having and this big headline, the first face-to-face meeting, but he was asked about israel itself and claims over intelligence that israel says it has and the u.s. has backed up about whether hamas has the command and control center under the hospital. what did he tell you? >> reporter: yeah, the very end i tried asking president biden whether he was absolutely confident about the claims that there is a hamas command center under that hospital. he unequivocally said, yes, he was confident. when i pressed him on whether there was anything he could share in terms of details proving that, he said, that's not something that he could talk about. clearly, we are seeing here u.s. officials having to ask -- answer questions about israel's conduct in this ongoing war throughout the press conference. we heard president boydeiden addressing the issue of israel's conduct and whether they are taking enough steps to be careful about minimizing civilian casualties. then just bringing it back to the summit here, you know, what the president and u.s. officials had set out to do in the big picture, of course, was to have a reset of sorts in u.s. /china relations that had badly deteriorated over the last year or so. in terms of the specific tangibles, we saw this play out. the re-establishment of the military-to-military communication. this announcement on trying to crack down on fentanyl production. there was the dynamics that we saw between the two leaders sort of trying to show in their body language some sort of warmth. the walk that they took on the grounds here. all of that was noteworthy. i did ask president biden whether he would refer to president xi as a dictator. this was the exchange. after today, would you still refer to president xi as a dictator, a term you used earlier this year? >> look, he is. he is a dictator in the sense that he is a guy who runs a country that is a communist country that is different than ours. >> the context, of course, there was a reference to when earlier this year the president referred to him as a dictator. he said that dictators don't like to be caught off guard. this was a reference to a question about the u.s. shooting down the chinese surveillance balloon, sort of suggesting that president xi himself didn't have a full picture, didn't have all of the information about the spy balloon that was shot down. i think it's going to take a little bit of time for us to get a full, full picture of exactly how china will respond to that comment at the very end of president biden calls him a dictator. this is not going to be well received probably by some of the chinese officials. i think in the big picture, we are hearing u.s. officials trying to herald this as having been a successful summit where they were able to make some real progress on what they set out to do in resetting u.s./china relations. >> yeah. a different standard of what that looks like giving they are restoring the military-to-military communication. great question to president biden there at the end. during this press conference, there were questions about what is happening in gaza tonight. the idf forces entered the hospital. israel released video they say shows weapons, ammunition, a radio that were seized during the raid. it's the largest hospital in gaza. it's not yet offered evidence of the extensive tunnel system that israel says is being used by hamas underneath the hospital. for weeks, we have heard the israel defense forces talking about hamas using this hospital as its headquarters, even going as far as to put this 3d animation out that you see here showing these tunnels. amid the questions going forward about this intelligence, joining me now is cedrik clayton. you see questions about what exactly is under this hospital, is it what israel says it is? we heard from a senior advisor to prime minister netanyahu saying more will come out. what do you make of the fact that they didn't show evidence of that today? >> i find it very interesting. there might be several reasons for that. some of them could be that they are still -- there are efforts made to mop up the hamas fighters in the area. there might be pockets of resistance with the tunnel entrances. that's one possible scenario. it's kind of interesting to see them not talk about it. another report, there was extensive look at the hamas facilities. that indicated that there certainly are tunnels there. whether or not they are under the al-shifa hospital remains to be seen. there are tunnels. the question is where are they going and how emten xtensively they been used? >> on the big picture of this, the other comment we heard from president biden was talking about israel making sure -- he said hamas could never conduct an attack like what happened on october 7th again. those military capabilities. i think the question is, theoretically -- not theoretically, literally, how long could that take israel? we have seen they have gone to the hospital. they have been there almost 24 hours. gaza is a densely packed place. they don't fully know where all of the hamas fighters and commanders are. how long could a time line of establishing israel's goal here actually take? >> it could take a real long time. that's really the problem with setting these goals. you need to set a goal for an operation like this, but to completely eliminate hamas, that's going to be almost impossible to achieve, at least in the next, i would say year or so. we are talking about hearts and minds in addition to physical capabilities. that's a very different scenario. >> yeah. a lot of questions about what that looks like. thank you for joining us on this breaking news tonight. >> you bet. as you see, those strong signs of support from president biden, there's a rally calling for a cease-fire that turned tense outside of the headquarters of the democratic national committee in washington, d.c. hundreds of demonstrators were face to face with d.c. and capitol police officers. we heard from capitol police tonight on this saying they have made arrests, but not said how many. members of congress were evacuated after a crowd of 150 people turned violent. we heard from congressman sherman, he posted he was one of the members who was evacuated. we are monitoring that story. tonight, you heard from senator joe manchin, not only not running for re-election but considering a third party presidential run. we will turn to a house democrat who has thrown his hat into the ring to challenge president biden. dean phillips is here in studio. how's the chicken? 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it's time for change. we need a new generation. president biden is a good man. i respect him. he has been doing this for 50 years. eight years in the white house. four months when president obama, we could have codified a woman's right to choose, during those four months. the issues that we face in the middle east are ones that have been existing my entire life. i'm 54. president biden has been a senator since i was 3. these are problems of the past that nobody has dealt with. it's time for a new generation. it's almost getting to a point of irresponsibility to think we should do the same things with the same people in the same positions and somehow think that it's going to work out differently. no. it's time for change. people want it. i'm going to be the voice for a new generation. >> why do you think you are the alternative to president biden? >> so far, i'm the only one that has jumped into the race. i saw you in an interview with senator manchin. there are others who tap dance and fly around the world meeting with world leaders. the water is warm. get into the race. this is the united states of america. i would invite people -- >> who else do you think should get in? >> anybody who is competent and able to serve, because if we turn this country back over to donald trump, we will not have a 2028 election that americans are accustom to. that's the truth. that's the only reason why i'm doing this. it's absurd, it's irresponsible, it's a dereliction of duty that we have people prepared to run for president that are somehow afraid -- afraid of the very system that is supposed to be promoting democracy. come into the race. jill stein, cornell west, joe manchin. kennedy left. i don't think he is a democrat anymore. enter the primary. president biden chose not to be on the ballot in the first state in the nation, new hampshire. that's where we are at. >> i think hillary clinton may have something about jill stein being in the race. >> darn right. third party candidates -- both parties need competition. i will be the first to say it. the issue is right now, we cannot do something that would make it easier for donald trump to return to the white house. there are four people making it easier for him right now. cornell west, jill stein, possibly joe manchin and joe biden. that's the truth. look at the numbers. president biden is down nationally. he is down in five of six of the battleground states. his approval ratings are approaching historic lows only rivals by carter. the country is saying they want change. why nobody other than me has decided to enter a race when 80% of the country wants change is showing me what is really wrong with the system. >> it's interesting you are encouraging other people to get in the race. are you running to be president or so biden is not the nominee? >> i'm running to prevent donald trump from becoming president. i'm running to win the presidency. i'm prepared. i would be the most experienced president in recent history. business experience, non-profit experience, government experience. president biden, a good man. he spent his entire -- >> you don't think he has experience? >> in public service. nothing else. nothing else. >> the president -- >> the presidency is a lot more than public service. you must understand the business world, the non-profit world. you must understand government. i will give him credit for being 50 years in the game. he is a good man. this notion of your career -- that's not what our founders intended. that's the problem in congress. look at the people who are controlling the system. i'm talking to college students almost every day, high school students. there's a reason why donald trump is tied with joe biden amongst young people. they are sick of this. i'm saying, let's do better. it's time for optimism, hope. it's time for a new american century. people are struggling so much right now. affordability is -- >> it's a massive issue. when you lockok at other people who have challenged an incumbent president -- it's an advantage in a presidential race. >> huge advantage. >> typically, they have massive disagreement with them on policy. what's your biggest policy disagreement with president biden? >> let me say the biggest issue with the president is he is going to lose. president biden and vice president harris are going to lose to donald trump. look at the numbers. it's just -- >> we are still a year out. >> you have been doing this a while. you know the numbers. you have had people on the show, every week they say -- look at people of prominence who have no skin in the game. >> let's go back to the policy question. >> a number of areas. i referenced -- let me start with what's going on in ukraine and the middle east. in 2014 i think it was, vladimir putin entered crimea. took crimea when president biden -- then vice president biden was in the white house. what did the united states do? nothing. why do you think we're in the -- >> he wanted to do more. >> all i'm telling you right now is the truth. in 2014, crimea was invaded by vladimir putin. we did nothing. president biden -- then vice president was in the white house. i'm 54 years old. this obnoxious, disgusting bloodshed between israel and palestinians has been occurring this horrible cycle for the entire time that president biden served in the united states senate. these are issues that have existed for decades. >> you disagree with him on ukraine? >> i disagree we keep the same people in the same position doing the same thing that have led to nothing but war, unaffor unaffordability. we have a crisis that everybody watching knows is real. i'm afraid people in washington do not. joe biden is a good man. but it's time to pass the torch. they are going to lose the election. >> what would you say -- the white house would say -- >> let me say other things. >> you voted with president biden 100% of the time. >> of course. there's a handful of bills that come from the white house. not only did i vote for him, i was -- >> those are big bills. >> and a good start. infrastructure bill was an important bill for the future. no question. the chips bill , an outstanding bill. inflation reduction bill, good stuff. the real issue is affordability. people are struggling. fuel prices, grocery prices, health care. >> you voted for his economic plans. >> that's the beginning. of course i did. not only did i vote for him, i was a member of house leadership. my job was to market them. that's the beginning. the issue right now is not what we have done. i'm making the proposition that we have a crisis of affordability. we have people sleeping in the streets in every town, every village, every city in america right now. there should be an all hands on deck approach to making sure no one is sleeping in the streets. we have a major crisis at the border. if you think they are addressing it at the border the right way, no. we have to go to the northern triangle countries. change the asylum policy. cannabis legalization, the president has not acted on something 80% of the country wants done. we have massive issues. we don't have paid leave. we don't have pre-k childcare. we can't afford childcare because nobody can go to work because it's so expensive. housing is so expensive, so unaffordable, unavailable. we need an all hands on deck housing production initiative as well. young people -- i will have a youth cabinet in the white house. a bipartisan cabinet. you asked about differences. the president has done a good job governing. he was the only person who could have beaten donald trump in 2020. he is probably the only moderate democrat who could lose to him in 2024. he made a promise to restore the soul of america. that is not happening. we have to repair. we have to come together. it's time for a new generation. >> the white house would disagree. >> it's a free country. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> appreciate your time. speaking of the republican side of the 2024 race, nikki haley is now partially walking back a campaign pledge. her comments ahead. >> should social media users be forced to use their real names online? nikki haley stirred off controversy when she said, i believe so. >> every person on social media should be verified by their name. first of all, it's a national security threat. when you do that, all of a sudden people have to stand by what they say. >> the comment quickly drew pushback from her gop ryling and today we heard from nikki haley clarifying it wasn't americans she would crack down on as president but instead foreign adversaries. >> social media companies need to show us their algorithms. be transparent to the american people. i don't mind anonymous american people having free speech. what i don't like is russians and chinese having free speech. >> i think the first question before she made the comments and clarified was, is this, a, constitutional, and b, even possible in. >> firstly, this is not going to happen, especially you can't legislate for this, and question of constitutionality around this are very valid. that being said, i think haley's meants might resonate but not in the way she intended. she was talking about this as a national security threat, but reporting on people who have been harassed over the years, particularly women online, people have been driven to suicide because of anonymous accounts, anonymous trolls, whether it's teenagers. even a couple years back -- i think we have headlines to show. there was a member of the british parliament that talked about the threats of rape she got i think is 600 from mostly anonymous accounts. so there is this veil of anonymity people will take and go and say awful things. haley's point is if there is aw -- if you have to stand by what you're saying you might think twice about that, however, on the flip side we've seen the role social media plays in bringing democracy to other parts of the world or uprisings. for people repressed and living under repressive regimes they also rely on anonymity to speak out. or also whistleblowers, people in this country trying to speak out where they might not otherwise be able to. >> we heard from people like elon musk today saying no. >> it's not going to happen. there's nothing to stop elon musk from building a platform where everybody's verified. they have to have their name next to their account. it would probably be a much more pleasant place, but that's not going to happen. >> that would destroy the point of twitter, ma. donie o'sullivan, thanks as always. thanks for joining us. we have a lot more news to come tonight. cnn news night with ababbey philillips startrts after a a q brbreak.