♪ ♪ ♪ at war. a note of caution from the u.s. >> far too many palestinians have been killed. as israeli forces pound gaza. >> we are increasing pressure on hamas every hour, every day. what's his war plan? israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu joins me live for his first cnn interview since hamas' terror attack inside israel and then u.s. national security adviser jake sullivan is here. plus, the right to vote. voters send republicans another message on abortion rights. how will the gopa dakota? >> i'll ask a the chairwoman of the republican party, ronna mcdaniel. >> a complicated headache, but will he run for president and what does an already crowded third party presidential win mean for a pabiden re-election. david axelrod and larry hogan join me ahead. ♪ ♪ hello, i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is watching global tensions rise even further. this morning the tension in the middle east is focused on worsening humanitarian crises in gaza as israel faces growing pressure to take civilians more into consideration as it prosecutes its war against the terrorist group hamas following its barbaric october 7th attacks on israeli civilians. at gaza's al shifa hospital doctors tell cnn the outlook for patients there becomes more desperate by the hour. low on food, water and fuel and largely without power amid heavy fighting in the area. this morning israel said it opened a self-evacuation corridor for the medical center for people to move south. the civilian crisis has prompted a shift in the approach of the biden administration saying too many palestinians have died in the conflict. while israel yesterday what we saw there were families of hostages taken by hamas demanding that they be more prioritized. the rescue comes soon. >> joining me now is israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, sir, thank you so much for joining me and let's start with what's happening at that hospital. israeli forces have said that they were engaged in intense fighting around al shifa hospital, the largest medical facility in gaza. i know that you say the hospital sits on top of a hamas command and control center, but of course, there are also patient, civilians sheltering in that conplex getting treatment. how do you go after hamas without putting sick and injured civilians in that hospital at more risk than they already are? >> we've called to evacuate all of the patients from that hospital and in fact, a hundred or so have already been evacuated. i've called for field hospitals and the french president has sent a floating hospital ship. i've asked the emirates to send a field hospital, they have, and other countries have done the same. i expect the u.n. -- there's no reason why we can't take the patients out of there instead of letting hamas use it as a command center for terrorism, for the rockets they fired against israel and the tunnels they use to kill israeli civilians. let's keep this in focus. just imagine what would happen if the united states were attacked viciously by 20 9/11s, 20, that's the proportionate number, 50,000 killed, 10,000 americans held hostage including babies, elderly, women, children, 10,000 rockets falling on cities and that's number of rockets that are falling all of the time on our cities and may fall during this interview, in fact, and we may have to go to a shelter. that's what's happening. what would america do? it would take all its force and go after these killers and what if these killers embed themselves in hospitals, schools and u.n. facilities, you'd do everything in your power to get the civilians out which is what we're doing. we'd call them to leave and you certainly wouldn't give immunity to the terrorists and we're treading carefully when it comes to hospitals and we're not going to give immunity to the terrorists and so far, even though hamas has tried to prevent civilians from leaving and hundreds of thousands have left and sometimes having go through hamas gun points and gun fire that wants to keep them in harm's way. >> just to be clear, sir. israel will aid, help these civilians who are quite sick and inside these hospitals come out not just in al shifa, but there are other hospitals where this is happening. >> yes. we're telling them to leave. >> telling them or helping them? >> helping them by creating safe corridors. so we have designated routes to a safe zone south of gaza city where there's no fighting and we're telling them, go ahead. move. 70,000 have moved three days ago. i think 50,000 moved yesterday. more will move today. we want all of the civilians to be moved out of harm's way and hamas is doing everything in their power to keep them in harm's way. they put muscles below -- yes, go ahead. >> do you believe that there are hostages below that hospital, israeli or american hostages? >> i'm not going go into the intelligence picture we have, but you know, there's been this vicious thing, they take hostages and imagine a baby is held hostage. who takes a baby hostage? i don't know if you have children and i'm sure your camera crew has, and we all have children. what is this taking children hostages? threaten to kill them? this is savagery of the highest order, so obviously we're doing everything in our power to achieve two things. one is destroy hamas because without it none of us has a future and it's not only our war, it's your war, too and it's the battle of civilization against barbarism and if we don't win here the scourge will pass to other places. middle east will fall, europe will be next, you will be next and the first goal is to destroy hamas and the second goal is to bring back the hostages and we're trying to do both. >> those are completely understandable goals and goals that the united states very much supports, understanding that hamas is a barbaric terrorist organization, but israel is not hamas and the united states also makes very clear that democracies have to do better. the secretary of state, tony blinken, said that far too many palestinian civilians have been killed. what is your response to that? i think any civilian loss is a tra tragedy and the blame should be squarely on hamas. it fired on the safe corridor that we enacted the other day to prevent palestinians from leaving harm's way. it put rockets inside schools and hospitals. it has tunnels below children's beds. this is what we're dealing with. >> absolutely, but because israel isn't ham a is israel doing everything possible to take that into consideration? and yes, dana and more than that, we're trying to minimize civilian casualties as a result of our ground action the number of civilian casualties is being reduced because people are heeding our calls to leave the area and define hamas' attempt to keep them there and we'll do everything in our power to do that, but you know, the one example i can give you is this. these savages, they perpetrated the worst horrors on jews since the holocaust. the german chancellor scholz called them the new nazis. they were attacked by hitler and so they invaded france and then germany and when they did that they went into the cities. they had to fight the german army that was often embedded in civilian -- in the cities. >> yeah. >> in civilian neighborhoods and many civilians were killed so who was the blame laid on to? did they say the nazis -- the allies are wrong? the allies should stop fighting? they said use forces judiciously as you can, but don't give the nazis any refuge. defeat the nazis which is what we're doing. we're using force in the most judicious way, but we have to defeat these new nazis and we will, for our sake and for your sake, too. >> want to ask about the hostages. thousands of israelis including families of hostages rallied this weekend right across the street from where you are right now. they're very frustrated that they're not getting more information from you and where their loved ones are, believe that the government, your government is not doing enough to get them back. what do you say to them? >> it's understandable. they're under tremendous distress. they're under torture. you can imagine that. you have your -- your father, your husband, your son, your daughter taken by these savages. >> are you doing enough? >>. >> we're doing everything we can around the clock, and i can't talk about it. i personally met with the hostage families, foreign minister lease of hostages several times and it just tears your heart out and yes, we're doing everything and many things that i can't say here obviously, but this is one of our two war goals. one is to destroy hamas and the second is to bring back our hostages and we'll do everything it can, and we think the entire world should join us. the demand from the red cross and it demands hostages and demand the unconditional release from the hostages and saying this is barbarism that is unacceptable. i would like to see the u.n. secretary-general basically lay the blame on israel and lay the blame on these savages to demand that they obey international law because israel is fighting international law. the army is doing an exemplary job trying to minimize civilian casualties and minimize terrorist casualties and we need the international community not to give support and moral support and legit mass toe sheer evil that hamas represents, support israel and attack hamas. >> prime minister netanyahu, one of the questions right now is when it comes to hostages is whether there can be a negotiation that worked towards a deal that worked through large groups of hostages in exchange for a sustained days' long pause in fighting. is there acceptable to you and if so, how long of a pause would israel be willing to allow? >> i said that we would pursue the battle to destroy hamas to an end and i said the only cease fire that we would consider is one in which we have our hostages released and that remains true. it doesn't mean that we can't give humanitarian pause for a few hours and a place, a specific time and place where we want to have a humanitarian corridor and have the people leave safely and we've done that and hundreds of thousands have left. >> how long of a pause would you be willing to support? >> so far we've dealt with -- if you're talking about a ceasefire. >> no, i'm not talking about a ceasefire, a longer pause, days, for example. >> that's not a pause. if you're talking about stopping fighting, that's exactly what hamas wants. hamas wants an endless series of pauses that basically dissipate the battle against them and it's like the germans after normandie and let's have a cease fire, you guys hold off, let us replenish our supplies and let us get out of our terror tunnels and let us re-arm ourselves and so on. obviously, we're not going to do that. >> the u.s. says -- in order to have a cease fire in the entire area, that will require the release of our hostages. >> the u.s. says that you need an extended pause in order to get the hostages out. >> do you not believe that, as well? >> we don't disagree with that? we need to get the hostages out. >> the u.s. also says that any post-war plan for gaza must include palestinian-led governance and gaza unified with the west bank under the palestinian authority. you appeared to reject that yesterday. you said israel would not accept a, quote, civilian authority there that educates its children to hate israel. would you not accept giving control of gaza over to the palestinian authority after the war? >> first -- the first thing we have to do is destroy hamas because otherwise they'll do it again and again and again and they've said so. so we'll destroy hamas. the second thing is there needs to be an overriding and an overreaching of the israeli military envelope because every place that we leave, we just exit and give it to some other force and we achieve nothing. the third thing we have to understand is that a civilian authority has to cooperate in two goals. one is to demilitarize gas and the second is to de-ral caddize gaza, and i have to say that the palestinian authority has unfortunately failed on both counts. they don't demilitarize the west bank. we have to do it. we have to go in and fight the terrorists. they don't de-radicalize. they teach children the hate of israel. they pay for terrorist murderes and their families, the more jews they kill the more they pay. they refuse to this day, 36 days after this savagery to condemn -- >> if not the -- >> sorry? >> if not the p.a. -- >> there has to be a reconstructed civilian authority. there has to be something else. otherwise we're falling into the same rabbit hole and we'll have the same result. remember, the p.a. was already in gaza. when israel had gaza it handed the keys over to the p.a. and what happened? within a very short time hamas took over. they're not willing to fight hamas. so you have to have some kind of authority, civilian, palestinian authority that is willing to fight the terrorists, and educating and importantly, must educate their children for a future of peace, cooperation and prosperity and cooperation with israel and not the annihilation of israel and so far that hasn't happened and the burden of proof is on the p.a. and they failed every single count? i say that regrettably, but honestly, we have to be realistic about what we expect. we can't fall back on formulas that failed. we have to succeed, to succeed to give gaza a better future and let's not bring it to a failed past. let's create a different reality there. >> prime minister netanyahu, before i let you go, i know you've been asked this several times, but i have had multiple people inside israel reach out to me knowing that i was going to interview you, and say the one thing they want to hear from you is that you take personal responsibility for failing to prevent the october 7th attacks and protecting your people. i know you say that time for that will come after the war. why won't you take responsibility now? >> i've already addressed that many times, and i said this whole question will be addressed after the war. just as people would ask -- >> why not now? >> did people ask franklin roosevelt after pearl harbor that question? did people ask george bush after the surprise attack of september 11th? >> i think those questions were asked. >> i've said one thing that is important and i've said we're going to answer all these questions including me. i'm going to be asked tough questions. right now i think what we have to do is unite the country for one purpose. one purpose alone and that is to achieve victory. that's what i did. we formed a unity government. the country is united as never before and that's what we have to pursue. what the people expect me to do are two things and one is achieve victory and bring the hostages back and assure that gaza is never -- and to the israelis that are disappointed that you won't take responsibility, you say -- >> i said that i'm going to answer all the questions that are required including the questions of responsibility. there will be enough time for that after the war. let's focus on victory. that's my responsibility now. >> prime minister benjamin netanyahu, thank you so much for your time this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you, dana. up next, as we've talked about a word of caution this week from the u.s. to israel, national security adviser jake sullivan will be here and also coming up, how much could a third party candidate hurt joe biden's chances for re-election? david axelrod and larry hogan will be here ahead. welcome back to state of the union and america's close ally israel. implementing humanitarian pauses of gaza and overseas, the u.s. secretary of state tony blinken said, quote, far too many palestinians have been killed and more needed to be done to keep civilians safe. here with me now is president biden's national security adviser jake sullivan. thank you so much for being here this morning. i just want to be clear, does israel need to do more to limit civilian casualties? >> first, dana, any loss of innocent life, palestinian, israeli, civilian, every one and we grieve for those who have been lost. at the same time what israel is facing is a terrorist enemy who hides among civilians who uses civilians as human shields and so it has an added burden of trying to prosecute this campaign against that terrorist group while distinguishing terrorists and innocent civilians and that doesn't lessen its responsibility to operate according to the rules of war and we have continued to make that point both publicly and privately and we will continue to do so as we go forward. >> is israel operating according to the rules of war? >> dana, i'm not going to sit here and play judge or jury on that question and what i'm going to do is state the principal of the united states on this issue which is straightforward. israel has a right, indeed, a responsibility to defend itself against a terrorist group that just in the last couple of weeks has come out and said that it would like to repeat october 7th over and over again until israel no longer exists. a hamas spokesman on the front page of "the new york times" said the entire objective of the group is a permanent state of war with israel because that is what israel is up against. at the same time as i have said as president biden and secretary of state blinken had said we are democracies and as democrats we have to be different and we have to abide by the rules of war. we have do our utmost to protect innocent civilians and that means being targeted and careful and military operations to try to reduce and to try to avoid any loss of civilian life. >> on that note, israel says its forces are engaged in intense fighting around the al shifa hospital, the largest in gaza. doctors without borders says there are some 600 patients including infants in that hospital with no food, water or electricity. israel says that beneath that hospital is a major hamas command and control center. first of all, is that the u.s. understanding? >> dana, i can't get into intelligence matters and you can see from open-source reporting that hamas does use hospitals along with other civilian facilities for command and control, for storing weapons and for housing its fighters and so without getting into this specific hospital or that specific claim, this is hamas' track record. >> israel says that it is. >> that puts an added burden on israel. >> israel says that hamas is using this hospital as a place to control and command -- command and control their terrorist activities. what is the u.s. position? >> right. what i'm saying is i can't speak to intelligence matters here live on camera with you. i can just say that we know from a lot of different sources including open sources that are not classified that this is a common practice of hamas. >> so given that, the reason i ask the question is, of course, how should israel proceed with this hospital given the fact that not only are there civilians in this hospital, but there are sick and injured civilians in this hospital? >> well, dana, i think your question just points out the difficulty and complexity of this conflict. you have a terrorist group using civilians as human shields and even using sick and injured civilian shields and you have an israeli defense force which is seeking to root out this terrorist group to make sure it can no longer represent a threat to israel, and the hospital puts this question into stark relief, but the bottom line for the united states is that we do not want to see fire fights in a hospital. we do not want to see innocent patients who are sick or wounded be injured or killed in the cross fire. so that is how we look at this issue and that is how we are communicating with our israeli counterparts. >> jake, there are still more than 200 hostages being held in gaza including a number of americans. a senior u.n. official says that they working to free a large number of hostages in exchange for a sustained, long pause in fighting. how closer you to a deal with that and how many americans does the administration believe are still being held by hamas? >> well, i don't want to predict how close we are because i thought we had been close before and we hadn't gotten there and there are active, intensive negotiations under way and the united states is engageded in those negotiations and egypt and other countries are also engaged and the goal here is to do what is necessary to ensure we have the safe return of the hostages including the americans. we currently have nine americans who are missing. one green card holder who is missing. we don't know the status, whether they are alive or whether they have passed away, but we are looking to get the safe recovery of all of those individuals and we're staying in close touch with their families and i'll be meeting with the families of the american hostages this week. >> let's look ahead to post-war situation. the administration, your administration, has warned that it would be a mistake for israel to occupy gaza, indicating that the biden administration thinks that the palestinian authority should take over after the war. prime minister netanyahu says israel will not accept a, quote, civilian authority there that educates its children to hate israel and says that israel will insist on full security control in gaza. what's your response? >> well, first, i think the prime minister will have to speak to exactly when he meant by each of those comments and he's made some clarifying comments and we've been clear and you referenced it that there can be no re-occupation of gas and no forcible displacement of the palestinian people from gaza and there can be no reduction in the territory of gaza, and also at the same time, dana, gaza can never be used again as a terrorist space from which to attack israel. those are our basic, bottom lines. we've also said that we think that there should be unified political leadership across both the west bank and gaza. the palestinian authority is the political leadership in the west bank. over the long term, of course, the determination of how the west bank and gaza are governed will be up to the palestinian people. jake, i want to ask you before i let you go about a highly anticipated meeting with xi jinping in california. the president is big on believing that personal diplomacy and talks in person can work and he's gotten to know president xi very well over the years. can the summit reverse months of tension between the u.s. and china? and specifically, is it possible that the disintegration between u.s. and chinese military is something that can be restored after this? >> that's a great question. first, you're right. president biden believes there is no substitute for leader to leader engagement, face to face, to manage a complex relationship like the u.s.-china relationship and that's what we're trying to do here. the u.s. and china are in competition. president biden is trying to manage that competition responsibly so it doesn't tip over into conflict and he's looking for areas when it's in the best interest to do so. ties and communications between our two militaries are critical. the chinese have that and president biden will like to re-establish them and he will look to this summit as an opportunity to try to advance the ball of that. i won't get ahead of any announcements that might come out of it and this is a top agenda item and he's looking for other practical ways to show the american people that sitting down with xi jinping can defend american interests and also deliver progress on the priorities of the american people. >> jake sullivan, thank you so much for being here. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> even on the debate stage, republicans said their party had a bad week. i'll talk to the gop chairwoman ronna mcdaniel about the message voters sent on tuesday. that's next. - [young alec] my favorite people in shriners are the doctors and the nurses, because they help people through life. - [adult alec] wow, i was a really cute kid, (laughs) but it's true. shriners hospitals for children is awesome. the first time i went to shriners hospitals for children, i was two months old. because of their care, now i live a full, independent life. i got my driver's license, and i'm going to college. when you call right now, and give just $19 a month, only 63 cents a day, we'll send you this adorable blanket as your reminder of the journey you helped me make, and the journey you're helping other kids make too. - it's amazing to know that there's someone looking out for me and my family. - and it isn't just the doctors and nurses who have been looking out for me. it was you. pick up your phone or go to loveshriners.org, and you'll be a part of something special too. sd . i am upset about what happened last night. we've become a party of losers at the end of the day. for that matter, ron, if you want to the come on stage and look the gop voters in the eye and i will turn over, i yield my time to you. >> welcome back to "state of the union." gop candidate vivek ramaswamy going scorched earth during the debate and this weekend he's back at it and he is suggesting a candidate to replace ronna mcdaniel after another disappointing election night for republicans on tuesday. the rnc chairwoman, ronna mcdaniel is here with me now. thank you so much for being here. he did double down, vivek ramaswamy. he tweeted he wants an interim chair to take over until the next rnc meeting in january. >> last i checked i wasn't running for president. he's at 4%. he's looking for headlines. i think what republicans really want to hear from our candidates right now in terms of headlines is how are we going to take on joe biden, the border crime, fentanyl and restore our kids' education and what's happening with israel and there are so many things that republican voters and democrat voters and independent voters want to hear from our candidate and that's okay, but i will continue to say to everyone we should be taking on democrats and not each other and this circular firing squad and this attacking republicans like we saw with kevin mccarthy and what we've been seeing over and over again is hurting us and we have a map in 2024 where we can win the white house, take back the senate and win the house. >> personal attacks against you aside, if you look at what republicans have dealt with over the last few years. republicans lost white house in 2020 and did not win it back in 2022 and it is so narrow they can barely govern and on tuesday on the state level, republicans lost big in virginia and in kentucky, are republicans right to be frustrateded? think, we want to win. i look at the rnc and i'm proud of when we're doing. we don't do the messaging, the candidates do with their poll ters and their campaigns and i look at the minority outlook and the hispanic and asian voters. i look at 2022. republicans won the popular vote. we turned out 4 million more vowers and we would have won the electoral college. the rnc builds the road and you need a good candidate and a good road to get to your destination and what we're doing right now with the bank your vote initiative and with 70 lawsuits that we're in. we just won in new hampshire that upholds voter i.d. on top of our engagement with minority communities, i'm very proud of what the rnc does. >> one of the big takeaways from this past tuesday's election from the democrats' point of view is making abortion front and center in elections wins, and you said this week that, quote, our candidates have lost their messaging on abortion. what should republicans' message be on abortion. >> cane a i've been talking about this with you. i've been on your show talking about this since 2022. i am a suburban woman. i get this. we put a memo out before the elections in 2022. it's up to the candidates if they take those suggestions. if i give my husband directions in the car it doesn't mean he's going to take them, right? but we have to talk about this. i'm going to appoint a candidate in virginia that did a fantastic job, danny diggs. he won the senate race and he put his daughter on and she was compassionate. she understood women and wasn't coming at them as criminals because they have differences of opinion and she articulated her dad's position. >> which is? >> his position is that we have common sense limitations. why can't the democrats come to that and say listen, we now know through science of 50 years ago a baby feels pain as its life is being taken at 15 weeks. can't you at least come here? why are democrats continuing to double down on 39 weeks, 38 weeks? what is an abortion there again? >> ronna, you know that most democrats don't support -- >> they don't say that. >> if something like that happens that far along it means something is really wrong and you know that. >> the life of the mother which is an exception and there are states that have it until 39 weeks and why not say if we don't support that, why not come to this consensus and that's what the candidate in virginia did and he did an excellent job and won the race. >> so what you're saying is it's a little bit of a position question and it's also a message problem, but if you look at the actual results on tuesday, just take ohio, which is effectively a red state right now. it wasn't a message problem, and it was a policy problem. people voted overwhelmingly embedded in the constitution. >> i think there was a message problem the way that bell was framed that was disingenuous with the voters and it has galvanized money to the left and it was a ratio of spending in virginia and democrats spent nine times on abortion ads as did republicans. we cannot let democrats fear month or this issue. we, of course, want life-saving care for miscarriages and and we support life-saving care for ivf and they are going on tv and using roe to scare people and misrepresent republicans on this issue, and i think our candidates have to get out in front of it. >> also, when you talk about what went on in ohio that it was misrepresented you could argue that the republicans misrepresented it, too, by saying that there were rules on that measure that weren't actually there, but on just the bigger picture, are you saying that you believe it is a messaging problem? you don't believe the republicans have a problem with the overall policy that over and over again, not just public opinion polls, but actual votes, seven states have voted everwhelmingly to allow for abortion rights? so why aren't republicans just looking at that and saying we're just on the wrong side of this approximately see wise? >> i think common sense limitations is where the country is. i do. i think most americans do think there should be a limitation when you know a baby feels pain as you're taking its life at 15 weeks. i think that's where republicans are saying this. this is a consensus position and they're welcoming the democrats. why don't you meet us here? it is a personal issue. one last question on this. you're saying 15 weeks and there are candidates running for president who say six weeks. is that too far? >> there are candidates doing different things in their states and that's what the state will allow, but i think everyone is saying to the democrat. i'm pro life. i am proud to be pro-life -- >> what about a federal ban? >> that's a policy issue and that is up to the politicians to decide. i don't think you can say that's a state's issue and we'll have to talk about this. >> former president trump who is the far and away front-runner said in a -- what was supposed to be a veterans day message, quote n honor of our gret veterans on veterans day we pledge to you that we'll root out the communists, marxist, fascists and radical left thugs that life like vermin within the confines of our country and then he went on. vermin? on a veterans day message? how is that different from the infamous deplorables comment that hillary clinton made? >> i'm not going to -- >> i haven't seen the whole speech. >> it was a post on social media. >> you know, we support our veterans and we're in a primary right now, and the rnc is doing our best to make sure we're getting our candidates visibility as we are taking on biden and this is what i hear, dana, people can't afford groceries. they can't afford to fill their car up with gas, they think this country is on the wrong track and they want to see our party fight for them and they want to see us win in november. >> if those are the issues and you end up having donald trump as your nominee and if he is convicted of a crime, do you believe that he would be the appropriate nominee for the republican party? >> whoever the voters choose is the appropriate -- >> even if he's a convicted criminal? >> i know this is newsworthy and as party chair i'll support who the voters choose, if they choose donald trump. >> they believe there is a two-tiered system of justice. they don't believe a lot of things that are coming out of this and they're making these decisions and you see it reflected in the polls. >> before you go. there is another debate coming up. given where we are with donald trump far and ahead in every single poll in every single state, do you still see value in presidential debates with the candidates who make the stage? >> i do, and i actually think some of the things we've done with this debate process have been very instrumental and we started with 14 candidates in 2015, going into iowa, there were still two stages and ten candidates in that race, we are now to five on the debate stage with stricter polling criteria and small dollar donor limits and it's helping had us engage to the volunteers and will you commit to debates, too. we're going to continue to evaluate. >> ronna mcdaniel, thank you very much for being here. >> thanks for having me. up next, is joe manchin going run for president and could my next guest join him on the ticket? larry hogan and david axelrod, he's not the one who would be on the ticket. they will join me after a quick break. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? have we piqued your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. ♪ how adorable! they actually think they've got a chance. sad in some way, but in other ways, funny. can you believe it, folks, 91 indictments, more trials and i'm still the best choice. >> snl treatment there. here with me now to talk about a huge political week, former obama senior adviser david axelrod and former republican, governor of maryland. larry hogan, thanks to both of you for being here. governor hogan, i'll start with you and the senator from west virginia joe manchin seems to be eyeing the possibility of joining the no-labels unity ticket. what do you think about that as somebody who is involved with no labels and might you join him? >> joe's been involved with no labels for a long time. i've got a tremendous amount of respect for him, and i think this was a tough decision for him, but i think he made the right decision after looking at the possibility of not winning a re-election in west virginia. i'm not sure whether -- one thing joe manchin is pretty good at is staying in the center of attention and he definitely wants to continue like i do, continue to be a part of the discussion, but i'm not sure whether all of this hype this week is going to turn into a presidential campaign or not, frankly. >> should it? >> look, i think that we've got two really weak potential nominees, and frankly, i keep saying that, you know, i'm hopeful that we can nominate the republican party can nominate someone other than donald trump. that's what i'm working toward and quite frankly, i agree with david axelrod that i probably would go further than him and say that joe biden is not the strongest nominee for the democrats that it's probably in his best interest and his families and the parties and the countries if he were to step aside. >> david? >> he did go farther than me. all i said was think about it and he ought to think about it only because there are certain -- i have no concerns about polls a year out. you have to look at them and analyze them and adjust, but i was in a situation as a strategist for barack obama in 2011 when we were facing difficult polls and the one number in the polling that was concerning and in the cnn poll that followed in the new york times poll has to do with age and that's one thing you can't reverse no matter how effective joe biden is behind the scenes in front of the camera what he's projecting is causing people concerns and that's worrisome, but listen, if larry's working hard to get a different nominee than donald trump, he's got to work harder because -- >> because right now, the high likelihood is that he's going to be the nominee of the republican party. >> yeah. look, there are about 70% of the people in america that do not want joe biden or donald trump to be president and that's why you're seeing all of these other potentials and that's why there are currently three others running with biden in the general election and now we're talking about potentially having a fourth and there are an awful lot of people that are looking for some other alternative and we're a long way off from super tuesday. >> yeah. but i think we don't know what it's going to look like. >> one of my concerns, dana and larry, is that this isn't a normal election and not withstanding what i said about joe biden because i think he's done some extraordinary things as president and has a record to run on, but on the other side is donald trump, and he's not a normal candidate and the stakes are not normal stakes and this is not differing philosophies. this a candidate who does not -- >> but david -- so i worry -- >> larry, just wait -- i'm worried about the third party -- >> yeah. go ahead, larry. >> despite that joe biden is losing in nearly every single poll and every single key state and you currently have a democrat, kennedy, pulling 22% to 24% of the vote. >> i want to get in there on this. let me get in this -- >> cornell west -- >> let's give dana. >> yes, please, dana. >> i want to get into what both of you are talking about and what you started to say, david, that you are clearly concerned about a third-party run and how much that would hurt joe biden and help donald trump if he is the nominee. before that even happens, there is another threat inside the democratic party. i'm not saying that joe biden has any real threat to lose the nomination at this point, but i just want you to listen to what minnesota congressman and democratic presidential candidate dean philips who is now rung, as i mentioned, told casey hunt in new hampshire. >> bidenomics is not working. i respect the president. i want to make it very clear. he's a good man. he saved our country. in 2020 he was only probably the only man who could have beaten donald trump and in 2024 he is one of the only ones that will lose to him. >> does he have a point? >> well -- >> i agree with that completely. >> the odd thing about what he was saying is that he supported almost everything that job has done in the congress, so i don't know if that's a sort of a self-indictment. look, i said what i said and there's one issue that is hanging over him. the country is in a sour mood, no doubt about it and it's hard to be an incumbent and he's been in a sour mood since before he was elected and there are concerns about inflation and those can be overcome and i think with donald trump on the other end he can still win this election and the age issue is difficult and philips is trying to exploit that. i believe joe biden will be the nominee of the democratic party and right now we're getting to the third party point. my concern is that donald trump has a high floor and a low ceiling and you throw third-party candidates and you are making it much more likely that he wins the election. ? governor, talk to that because i know there are many republicans who dislike donald trump more than you do, would you do anything to get a candidate, if it's yourself or somebody else into the race that would effectively give the presidency back to donald trump? >> look, i have no desire whatsoever to enable donald trump. i'm doing everything i possibly can to stop donald trump, but i'll reiterate what i said earlier. we're talking about a third party and joe manchin and i and others will do and they're running as independents and they're all democrats and i don't know why the focus is on the labels and there's a guy getting 22% that's a focus on. >> all of the focus isn't there, but my question is would you want to add to that? no. i think joe manchin, i and others have said over and over again that we would not do this, to be a spoiler. we would only be in it to win it. >> thanks to both of you. we appreciate it. nice, lively discussion. i've been looking into a frightening explosion in antisemitism especially on college campuses including a violent incidents involving two students at tulane university. >> violence erupted when a pro-palestinian demonstrator in the back of a pickup truck started to light an israeli flag on fire. >> a student on the jewish side, he ran and tried to get back the flag to save it from being burned. there were two kids on the back of the truck. one was holding an israeli flag and one was holding a palestinian flag on a very large pole and once the jewish student was was getting the flag back he started getting bashed repeatedly on the head with that pole. when i saw that, that's when i ran in. i was just trying to get him out of the situation. >> then dylan was beaten and attacked by two older men when he says was not college aged. >> i was completely blindsided by a man with a megaphone who hit me very viciously over the nose which broke my nose. i went into complete shock. i went deaf for a couple of seconds. it seemed like i went blind maybe for a second. >> be sure to tune in to my hour-long special tonight on antisemitism in america where we examine not only the what is happening, but the why. the whole story with anderson cooper airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. thank you so much this sunday morning with us. fareed zakaria will talk to the u.n. secretary-general about the situation in the middle east next.