Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240702

hello. i'm dana bash with wolf blitzer in washington. it is the top of the hour and we're tracking this historic and chaotic donald trump testimony in new york. the former president is taking the stand in his own defense, facing a civil fraud trial that could determine his future as a businessman and his political prospects. court is in recess for lunch. so far, trump has been on the stand for nearly three hours. >> and, dana, he's used much of that time to filibuster and rail against the judge, and that's very significant. trump keeps attacking and disobeying the judge, even though the fate of trump's family business is in that judge's hands. there is no jury in this civil trial. we have cnn's indkate kaitlan collins outside the courthouse. bring us up to speed the testimony that has gone on and what we anticipate. >> reporter: yeah, wolf, it has been tense, to say the least, inside that courtroom. there was a brief period where the judge was not as frustrated with trump as he has been throughout the morning. but for the most part there has been a lot of frustration coming from the judge's comments, saying that he wants trump to stop going on his asides about oil capitals of the world in scotland, and why he exaggerated his worth, and said just giving the attorney general's office yes or no answers. that has not happened, that is not donald trump's style. the question is how much of an impact that could have on what the outcome of this testimony is, because, wolf, as you noted, there is no jury. it is simpthe decisionmaker. he has already found trump liable for fraud and that clearly is at the heart of a lot of frustration. at one point trump lashed out at him. kara was inside the courtroom as this was happening. we've been reading your dispatches. what was it like to be in the room? >> reporter: the real moment of tension came just around noon. so in the morning the judge had been telling trump, answer these questions, don't give a speech, just answer the questions, no speeches. but things really got tense around noon and that is when the assistant attorney general was asking trump specifically about the financial statements and saying the attorney general's office has said these statements are misleading. do you disagree with that? trump became more animated, raised his voice, and he was saying that the attorney general is a political hack and then attacking the judge, not looking at him. trump is still facing the attorney questioning him, but saying he ruled against me, called me a fraud and doesn't know anything about me. that is when we saw trump get the most animated and emotional, and looked frankly angry that he was being called a fraud. that seemed to tip the balance of where he lost his cool. otherwise, he kept a very straight demeanor. he wasn't showing any kind of emotional reaction, but that set him off, saying that the judge called him a fraud and hitting right at his reputation and his 50 years of being a businessman in new york. >> how did the judge respond? what was he doing while trump was attacking him but not looking at him? >> reporter: so when trump is attacking him, he's just looking kind of straight ahead, not reacting at all. compared with the other moments where the judge was more irritated, raising his voice, saying he's fed up with this, answer the question. he said, if you don't answer the question, i'm going to excuse you from the witness stand and hold this against you, which is the whole point of trump testifying. trump's lawyers are saying, these are his brilliant answers, that he should be allowed to give these long answers because it's his way of showing that there was no intent to defraud, because that is a key element of the claims on trial right now. >> surely his attorneys can't think these are brilliant answers if they're infuriating the judge. there was a point between the attorneys where it got testy as well. >> reporter: what was interesting, it was the judge who raised this first. it wasn't the attorney general's office saying that trump's answers were too long. the judge out of the gate, it was about -- it was like when they got to a question about the financial statements. so in the early part of this, the judge laying down the law, saying i want you to answer the questions, i don't want speeches. still, this is usually something that the attorney general's office has brought up repeatedly. in this instance the judge was kind of setting the tone. that is when trump's lawyers were saying, he needs a chance to answer these questions because you have to understand his thinking and he's trying to give this answer. the judge was saying, no, he needs to answer these questions, i don't need a speech, i need an answer to the question. >> how was the lawyer for the attorney general's office -- i mean, he's the one doing all the questioning here. did they want it to keep going in the hopes that maybe his rambling could actually be helpful to them? >> reporter: that is what happened at the end. so he was letting trump speak and the judge was asking at one point, do you want some of this nonresponsive part stricken from the record, and the assistant attorney general said, i'm happy to keep it, i like some of what he said. so some of the things he's saying about his knowledge of these properties, his knowledge of the value, they think that's useful to their case. so even though he is saying things that are not answering the question that's posed to him, they think it's helpful to them. >> they're on break. trump hasn't spoken outside the court, which is kind of remarkable, since this morning. what's next? >> reporter: this afternoon is kind of a short session. the bulk of the trial is in the morning. the court breaks at 4:30. there's one other break. we're going to have about 2 hours and 15 minutes of questioning. while they have gone through a number of these properties, mar-a-lago, trump tower, which he said there was a mistake, it was overvalued, they've gone through a lot of properties. they focused on different years. they've been bouncing around. this allegation goes back as far as 2011, 2014. they still have two and a half hours of him on the stand. they will try to get in all the questions they want to ask him at the center of this. >> a lot going on. fascinating to hear from kara, inside the courtroom watching this play out. >> thanks to both of you very much. we'll continue to stay in close touch. all of this is happening a year out from the 2024 presidential election, and president trump didn't waste any time using today's testimony as a fundraising opportunity, earlier his campaign sent an email to supporters attacking the trial as, quote, election interference and talking up his latest poll numbers. cnn's kristen holmes is watching all of this unfold. >> that's right. kristen, this is probably one of the least surprising things that has happened today, that the trump campaign is using what is happening inside the courtroom to try to benefit him outside the courtroom, particularly on the campaign trail. going in, you were talking to all of your sources, i spoke to some people in trump world, his political strategy is almost superseding his legal strategy and trying to take advantage as much as possible of what is happening inside, to use the terms that we hear over and over, primarily witch hunt. >> reporter: dana, that's right. i do want to note, just while he's been on a lunch break, donald trump has posted on truth social a picture of the judge and a quote from this morning that he essentially says the judge says, i'm not here to hear what president trump has says, one of the quotes when they were having their sparring earlier today, essentially taking this out of context and using it to campaign off of. the fundraising is no surprise. this is a strategy that is not only working for them, but it's one they have to use. we have to remember he is still running a presidential campaign. he is not going to get to choose when he testifies or when he goes to trial. so they are taking this, these trials, these legal problems, and trying to make the most of them by turning them into a political campaign. donald trump is running on the messaging that this is election interference, that they want to stop him, democrats, all of his opponents, rivals, want to stop him from being president again, being elected in 2024. and what he has done here, what we've seen is he's taken that messaging from the public sphere and moved it into the courtroom. that's what you saw this morning, different times saying, you said i was a fraud, you didn't know anything about me, talking about election interference. they are taking this messaging to a whole nother level. we expected him to go out to the cameras and do this, but he is doing this behind the scenes in the courtroom as well. i've spoken to a campaign adviser who says that they actually really do think he's doing a good job, and they like the way that this is unfolding, the back and forth here in the courtroom, that they believe he is winning at messaging here. that is what this is all about to donald trump, how can he message this. now, of course, i do not want to separate the fact that we know this case in particular, that this trial in particular goes to the very core of who donald trump is. we talk about this a lot in terms of his personal brand, how he built his business. it also is part of his political brand. he spent years telling american voters that he was successful, he was this rich businessman, if he could do it for himself, he could do it for the american voter as well. he could run this country like the business he ran. and now he is being accused of fraudulently running that business and overinflating his wealth. that would go to the very core of his messaging politically, as well as personal branding. so there is a lot at stake here for donald trump, but as you can see, they are trying to make the most of this in terms of how to actually use it to their benefit for 2024 and the political campaign. >> kristen, elliot was making an important point earlier about the fact that, yes, this is a very specific, very narrow legal issue that he's embroiled in. it's only civil and he's already been found liable. it's a question of how much money he's going to spend. it is quite different -- how much money he's going to have to give. it's quite different from the criminal charges he's facing federally and also in georgia. but politically speaking, which is what we're talking about here, what the trump campaign is doing is lumping them altogether and saying, look, they're against me, they, the democrats. pick whoever you want to define as they. and i spoke to somebody who said that if you look at the poll numbers among republicans in the presidential primary and in caucus electorate, they certainly has a lot of very substantial sticky support, but there's still 15% to 20% of republicans who say they could vote for donald trump but might not. and that they believe that what we're seeing in new york today could help harden the support for donald trump in the short term during this republican primary process. it's amazing how connected, intentionally connected what you're seeing in the courtroom is from the perspective of the trump campaign to the actual political strategy. >> reporter: dana, i just want to add one thing, because i think what you're saying is spot on. i also think when you talk about those voters who aren't sure about donald trump, i hear from a lot of them. i'm not just talking about at trump rallies, but at various events i go to for the republican candidates. and i do hear one part of this messaging over and over again, there is a two-tiered justice system. even if they do not support donald trump, there is something about his messaging that is getting through to some republicans outside of his core base and that is what they're banking on. we have to point out this is completely unprecedented, even his own allies have concerns over what this means for a general election, how this would play out with voters, what it m would mean to have trial after trial, would that cause trump fatigue. they believe in the short term this is working, and i will tell you they looked at those polls from over the weekend and that's what they spent most of yesterday talking about. not that he was going to go to court today, that he was going to testify, about how good his poll numbers were over the weekend. that is what they are focused on. when they see those poll numbers, that's not going to help them shift their strategy. that's going to keep them doubling down on that. >> thank you so much for your excellent reporting, as always. stay with us as we follow all the breaking news on donald trump's civil fraud trial. we'll be right back. we're back with our special coverage as donald trump takes the stand in the civil fraud trial against him in new york. things have been quite sense in the courtroom as you've been reporting all day. the former president spent most of his time attacking the judge, the trial attorney and the attorney general of the state of new york. all of this prompted the judge to reprimand him repeatedly. let's bring in our panel. laura coates, you have been in courtrooms before. i don't know that you have -- you tell us, have you ever been in a situation where the witness who was supposed to be testifying on his own behalf to try to limit the damage as he is here, because he's already liable, does what he's doing on the stand? >> i've had my fair share of hostile witnesses, but normally the attorney would counsel them when there's a bench trial, when the fact finder is a judge himself. but in this instance he is well aware there is bait, trying to suggest if i can just upset you enough, maybe you'll be less professional, walk into my appellate arguments. here the judge is clear about that. take a step back as to why this is so strange. remember, when the judge is asking questions or the judge is asking the attorneys to make sure they're in line, he's already rouled about the consequential notion of saying you've already been found liable of fraud. what i want to hear from you is whether you should be fined a quarter of a billion dollars for that fraud, show some humanitarian, maybe you want to suggest you were not the one in control or otherwise. instead, you've got hubris, you've got an air of defiance, playing to a court of public opinion. and most importantly, you have the judge saying, okay, i'll take a step back and let the attorneys handle this, because he knows about the appellate process. have i seen some of it, yeah. but this crazy, no. >> it seems to me that trump and his lawyers, by trump going after the judge, hoping to rile him, if you will -- hold on one second. this is trump's attorney. >> i'm not here to hear what he has to say, then why exactly am i being paid as an attorney and why exactly are taxpayer dollars being used in this courtroom? the answer is very clear. because ms james wants to stand here like she did this morning and call my client a liar, call the company fraudulent, and make a name for herself. she said this morning that the numbers don't lie, and they won't lie in this case. i have a message for you. the numbers didn't lie when you ran for governor, and that's why you dropped out. and the numbers don't lie when president trump runs for office in 2024, and those numbers are loud and clear. this country is falling apart. and if we don't stop corruption in courtrooms where attorneys are gagged, where attorneys are not allowed to say what they need to say to protect their -- >> that's alina habba, one of the attorneys representing donald trump in this case. dana, it sounds more like a political statement she's making as opposed to a legal statement. >> it's so transparent. they're not trying to hide the fact that this is a political moment. this is a political campaign event that his advisers, along with his attorneys, his attorneys in the secondary, or even the third row of that, are putting on. and she just said it right there. it's about 2024. >> she's not talking about the case. >> right. >> it's all politics. it, also, is geared toward one person. she has an audience of one right there, donald trump. she came out, she knew that he would be watching. this is what he wants her to say, because that's what he cares about right now. i don't think we can underscore enough the fact that he has been found liable, and as laura just said, now we're talking about the money. absolutely the appellate case, the lawyers here know more about that, but he is on a political attack strategy here. he's fundraising off of it and that was part of the fundraising. >> it's interesting to me, because it seems, from reading some of the transcripts here, that trump hasn't answered a lot of specific questions about 40 wall street or any of these larger properties. instead, he turns and says, you guys want to take my properties away. one time he said, like they do in communist china. so what he does, he turns it to the victimization and you guys are -- they're making a martyr out of him. and he wants to be the martyr. that's what he's trying to do, and his attorneys are doing it on the courthouse steps. i'm not a lawyer here. >> you play one on tv. >> i do. not a great lawyer. but you guys can tell me what that means in terms of, he doesn't want to lose the $250 million. worst of all, he wants to be able to continue to do business in the state of new york. i think that is something he does care about. >> i think lost in all of this is that we as americans have a notion of trials of law and order, like the television show, where in 60 minutes, everything gets wrapped up, the trial is short, and anything can happen. >> it doesn't work that way? >> it doesn't work that way. it's important to note that rambling and giving long answers can work against you as a witness. that can be the kind of thing that, number one, bothers the judge. when you have one individual who controls your fate, you really don't want to get on his nerves. it's almost a human matter as much as it's a legal one. and so the mere fact of the president going off script, talking about all this nonsense, really could work against him at a trial. again, maybe the money doesn't matter, maybe it's not a big deal. but if you lose here, you could lose your company. >> you know trump, the money matters. >> but also the why, why the rambling answers. i know this is a judge trial, but they're a fact finder. if you were jurors and you had someone with a yes or no question posed to them and instead they tried to get to an answer that still does not answer it, you are going to assign less credibility to that person. you're going to assume what they're saying and why they're giving you the end run is because they're not being truthful. they know donald trump too well. as a judge, the ruling is about credibility. why that's so important is if this goes up on appeal for whatever reason, the one thing the appellate judges can't touch is what was the firsthand observations of a fact finder. if i did not find you credible, if there's no reason to think i'm bias, then the judge is saying, do you have an argument in the law? nothing. >> is that part of the reason that the attorney general, they're saying leave it on the record? >> yeah. >> laura, it's one thing for trump to be railing against the judge publicly under oath in the courtroom. it's another thing for a lawyer representing trump to be railing against the judge. >> she serves only one master, really. and the idea of you're supposed to have a duty of ethics and candor to the tribunal, that seems to be far in the rearview mirror like it's a dot at this point in time, for the reason she's talking to an audience of one. but, also, it does not help you on appeal. it does not help your client. your job, number one, first and foremost as the advocate, is to represent your client to the best of your ability, and in ways that are going to self-serve them. it's not happening here. >> even beyond the credibility point, if your testimony is not found credible, the court doesn't believe you and you lose, you can be held in contempt of court for failing to answer questions in the way they're asked, if it repeatedly keeps happening. either money fines or being thrown into jail. >> yes or no question and you get a speech. >> the court can hold you in contempt. >> can i answer your very good question, which is why is he doing this? as we're talking and as we're reading more of what he's saying in the courthouse, and on the stand, it's his political -- not just his political speech, but it's his political identity that he is trying to frame all of this through as, hey, everybody out there, this is me now, but it could be you tomorrow, and it may have been you yesterday. and i'm standing up for you against the machine, against they, whoever he considers they, in a way that you want me to, and that you would like to do if this was -- >> that's exactly right. and it also is important, i think, for the judge, because trump needs enemies, and his enemy in this case is, of course, letitia james, but it's also the judge in this case. and in a way -- again, i'm not a lawyer, but in a way, the judge backed off being a little confrontational with trump. does the judge feel some pressure, also, to let him go on in terms of what's going to happen next? >> i think for the reasons we've articulated. a judge we know. judges are not going to have the theatrics and antics. they've seen so many things over the course of a career, certainly his own career, that he would be so riled up over somebody being an uncooperative witness, is a little out of character, number one. but, also, letitia james, i think it's important we focus on what happens when you have somebody who is an elected officer who is bringing charges. one reason people will oftentimes villainize and criticize elected prosecutors is because, during the campaign trail, they will select a target. they want a villain. the one of her choosing was donald trump. and for that reason, the attorneys with trump have the requisite amount of evidence and ammunition to suggest that she is biased and that is feeding into the bias of the base. >> everyone stand by. we have a lot more going on. we've just learned, by the way, that the court is in recess for lunch until 2:15 p.m., about 45 minutes or so from now. we're following all of these late, breaking developments. stay with us. our special coverage will continue. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? have we piqued your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. this is cnn's special coverage of donald trump testifying in court. the former president is taking the stand in his own defense for the first time in this civil trial, accused of committing a multi-billion dollar business fraud. >> kaitlan collins and kara scannell are outside the courthouse. we're on a lunch break now. it certainly got pretty tense. it's terrific that you are there with kara, who was actually inside doing extraordinary work to give us an actual play-by-play of what's happening and what will happen again when they resume in about 45 minutes. >> yeah, and just to catch you guys up to speed, while kara and i have been standing out here, we saw one of trump's attorneys come out and speak to reporters, essentially doing the same thing trump was doing in the courtroom, which was attacking the judge, attacking the attorney general. alina habba repeatedly went after the attorney general, but was also going after the judge and alina habba was saying that trump should be allowed to answer the question. we talked about how much they clashed and how tense it wth're answers, the ag's office, that could be helpful for their case. trump acknowledging that he did play a role in assembling some of these documents with values for properties that were clearly not accurate. >> reporter: these financial statements are what the case is about. the judge said they were fraudulent and they were given to lenders and insurers and others who used them and relied on them. that is why they're so key. and through the questioning, even as trump goes off on tangents, he is giving the attorney general's office something to work with. unlike his sons who feigned any knowledge, he said he was aware of them, he would look it over and discuss some values. and specifically he was asked about some of these values and he's acknowledging that the apartment at trump tower, that there was a mistake. it was overvalued and they fixed it. he thought another property on the financial statement, seven springs, the family compound in new york, he thought that was misvalued on the statement. so he is talking with some knowledge about this, but then he goes off on a tangent, saying how things are worth more than they should be, they're worth more in the future and is not sticking to actually what the question was. that's what the judge is trying to rein in. >> he goes back to the disclosure of some of the documents that were prepared, saying essentially he seems to believe it inoculates him from being accused of fraud. the judge flatly is saying that's not even a factor, you cannot make that argument. >> reporter: the judge has already ruled in his ruling before the trial began that this, as trump called it, a worthless clause, is itself worthless. this is on the statement where there are disclaimers saying it doesn't comply with certain accounting rules. trump is trying to take that further and say it's telling you that you shouldn't rely on them at all. that is what he's testifying to, saying, as he put it, they weren't very important. you made it important, but it just wasn't important. so really trying to say these were statements that were nice to have around, but that the banks wouldn't rely on them. he's previewing a bit of what we say see if his lawyers do put on a defense case, he's saying, we're going to hear from bankers who say they didn't rely on these statements, you're going to hear from some experts who disagree. saying that, in fact, the judge is saying that that clause is worthless and the judge even said to trump, maybe you should read my ruling. i already said it was worthless. >> and it's very clear, of course, that trump personally deeply cares about this, kara. i know you'll be back in the courtroom. it's fascinating to hear your insights. they are on a break, but trump will be returning to the witness stand in a matter of moments. cnn will have live coverage of that right after this quick break. welcome back to our special coverage. former president donald trump on the stand in his new york civil fraud trial. trump will be back on the stand in the next hour, after undergoing nearly four hours of what we're hearing is pretty contentious testimony earlier today on the witness stand. he called the attorney general of new york, letitia james a, quote, political hack, described the new york case as a political witch hunt, and said that she should be ashamed of herself. >> laura coates and elliot williams are still with us. laura, based on trump's clashes with the judge, with everybody else, basically, over there, is he more interested in a political statement as opposed to a legal statement? >> yes, it's more so political. because legally speaking, he is way behind the eight ball. a judge has ordered and ruled he has lost the motion for summary judgment, meaning based on what i've seen so far, you have committed fraud. the only remaining question is how expensive is it going to get. is it $250 million, will you have your business certificates, will it be a conservatorship for your enterprise. very important points. there are 23 witnesses already, including his two adult sons. you've heard from the cfo, from allen weisselberg, all of whom have given various accounts and testimony. but it has not changed the equation to suggest that there were fraudulent documents, that you were aware that this had happened, that as an officer of your company you had a duty to actually ensure they were accurate before you handed them over to somebody else. nothing so far antics based has changed that for this judge, i doubt. >> elliot, one of the things we were talking about during the break was just a fundamental question, which is the fact that he's testifying at all. >> yeah. so he actually kind of had to testify here for a big reason. for the summary judgment order laura was talking about, there was a big finding made against donald trump or the trump organization that they had engaged in systemic fraud. they've lost the big aspect of this trial. putting the former president on the witness stand is sort of a hail mary, the reason they had to put on donald trump jr. and eric trump. now, in some of the other cases, mar-a-lago and in washington, d.c., those are criminal cases. you're a lot less likely to see the defendant testify because you can't make him self in a criminal case. that's what the constitution says. it's a little different here. normally you don't want your defendant to testify because it's fraught with peril. here they had no choice. >> i'm glad you mentioned the other cases, because you can imagine every prosecutor in the other cases are salivating with every single morsel. they're wondering if he'll open the door for their own cases. a statement he might make going off the rails, not answering the question -- remember, the judge wants direct answers. his attorneys in the other matters want even more precise and limited responses, because everything is tangentially related could be used against him in any of the other courtrooms. they're aware of that. that means anything from his finances for alvin bragg, for example, his conversations about who he is in control of, who he directs, and other contact as well, all very important. >> we've talked so much today about the word, credibility. we think about it in the common sense, do you think i'm credible, do you like me or not. >> yes. >> regardless of what you think, dana, in a courtroom credibility is the reliance on statements that any witness is giving. any time someone goes in court and makes a statement that contradicts another statement they make in another trial, that is a hit to the witness' credibility. so all of those other cases are looking at this testimony and looking for tiny little places where there might be conflicts that goes to the credibility of future testimony he might give. >> it's already worked against don jr., eric trump, likely donald trump as well, because they've already given a kind of testimony in the form of depositions. so that's sworn testimony and that's also called receipts. you already had don jr. asked a question about whether he was aware of misstatements, and then presented, after he gave his answer, with facts that he actually had, eric trump who said i'm more with the concrete and construction, here is evidence to suggest otherwise. donald trump, similarly, as you pointed out, about statements he made about disclaimers that were given, use your own figures, mine, you can maybe or maybe not trust. all of that is a culmination at a trial, which is why you're very afraid as a defense attorney to have your witness take the stand, and as a prosecutor you're a little thrilled. it's exhilarating to think about somebody who might be walking into a trap of their own making with little effort and bias on your own part. >> based on what we're hearing, does trump really understand that his entire business empire, most of his adult life has been dedicated to try to expand that business empire, does he understand that it's at stake right now? >> if he doesn't know, he better ask somebody about it. frankly, he certainly should know that. he knows that and here is how you know he knows that, there have been a number of very important trials, one involving e. jean carroll, for example, accusing him of sexual misconduct. he wasn't present at that. here he not only has been there on this day, but multiple days, going in front of a courthouse. because his business empire, and you've talked about this a lot, dana, is his political currency and vice-versa. forget the quarter of a billion dollars at stake, there is a quarter of a presidential election year that, for him, is at stake as well. he wants four more years. and part of that requires the american electorate to buy into his business acumen. he's in control, he is somebody who, but for him, you would be attacking them. if that goes away, if donald trump has a conservatorship over his business empire, do you trust him to be the commander in chief? that's a question for the voters. >> good question. guys, thank you very much. minutes from now, former president trump will retake the stand in the new york civil fraud trial. our live special coverage continues after a quick break. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. this is cnn's special coverage of donald trump testifying in court. the former president is taking the stand in his own defense for the first time in his civil trial, accused of committing a multi-billion business fraud. cnn's kaitlan collins is outside the courthouse in new york. i know they're on a lunch break right now. update our viewers on what we know. >> could i tell you something unusual that kind of strays from trump's familiar patterns when he's been in court? because he has come to trial here before, he's sat in the audience and listened alongside as other witnesses were on the stand and being questioned either by his attorneys or the prosecutors in this case. he hasn't always been quiet. he often has spoken to his attorneys, little asides, and then having them stand up and object or make a comment. one thing he has not done here that he did previously was speak regularly during the breaks. we saw him speak this morning as he was going into the courtroom, basically saying exactly what the attorney general when she was on the steps behind me had predicted he was going to say and referencing "the new york times" polling, talking about the 2024 election. since then, he has not addressed the cameras. he came out after that quite testy first hour inside the courtroom when it seemed like the judge was on the verge of dismissing him from the witness stand. he made a zipping motion with his mouth. on his way back in, he gave a thumbs up. other than that, he has not spoken to the cameras. the question of whether that changes once he is off the witness stand in just a few hours from now -- because we know this is only slated to go until about 4:30 p.m., that remains to be seen. his attorney, alina habba, one of several in the room with him, did come and speak to reporters a few moments ago. our friend, vaughn hilliard at nbc asked her, given that the judge had said he was so frustrated with these tangents trump was going on when he was being asked what the judge thought was yes or no questions, if she would counsel him from doing that. she said she would not, not necessarily that he takes the advice of his legal counsel. we'll see what happens when he returns to the stand in just a few moments from now. >> critical caveat there, at the end, kaitlan, thank you so much. we're going to sneak in a quick break. stay with cnn. our live special coverage continues in a moment.

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