Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240703

This is cnns special live coverage of an historic vote on capitol hill. Im jake tapper. This has not happened in more than 100 years. But facing a revolt from a small but powerful group of republican hardliners, mccarthy says he will bring up a motion to vacate in the first series of votes today that is just minutes away. I truly believe, though, the institution of the house, at the end of the day if you throw a speaker out that has 99 of their conference, that kept government open and paid the troops, i think were in a really bad place for how were going to run congress. Speaker mccarthy says he thinks he will survive the vote and that he will not make a deal with democrats to keep his job but that may not even be an option anyway. Heres the speaker earlier today. Democrats have been huddling today. Democrats are signaling they will not be coming to Speaker Mccarthys rescue. Lets get right to the action on capitol hill. Cnns manu raju and lauren fox join me now. Manu, ill start with you. What are republican lawmakers telling you about this vote . I dont have tolerance for some pseudo psychopolitical fetish. When you see disunity i think its sending a terrible signal to the electorate in advance of the 24 election that this republican majority cannot govern itself and we need to change that. Do you worry it could cost you the majority . Could it cost you the majority . It could. Sure could. Reporter now, i asked Speaker Mccarthy about whether hes open to any sort of dealmaking with democrats in order to get some democratic support to stave off this rebellion among the small number of members in his conference who have the votes at the moment to push him out. He indicated he is not open to any sort of powersharing agreement, suggesting that this would be akin to surrender on conservative ideals. Where this is heading, democrats are ready to sink him. Republicans are furious about matt gaetz, but at the moment matt gaetz is holding the power with a handful of members ready to send this house into something we have never seen before, the speaker being ejected. And well see what Kevin Mccarthy will do at that moment. Will he put himself up for speaker again . If he does that we could be in for a long haul of many rounds and ballots until they elect a new speaker. Jake. And lauren, if you gave Sodium Pentothal to House Democrats, they would probably admit they find matt gaetz more distasteful than they find Kevin Mccarthy. But they sure dont seem ready to save Kevin Mccarthy either. Reporter yeah, absolutely. That was certainly the decision coming out of the Democratic Caucus meeting. Democrat after democrat after democrat that we spoke with made clear that there just isnt trust for House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy, that even if he was willing to make a deal with them, which he has made clear he is not, the democrats just dont trust that he would stick to any agreement that they made. In fact, Behind Closed Doors im told that Hakeem Jeffries spoke briefly, the democratic leader, at the top of that Caucus Meeting but then he really said he wanted to listen to his members, and dozens of them spoke at the mikes, and im told it was a Broad Coalition of the conference from Progressive To Swing State democrats who one after another said they just dont believe that Kevin Mccarthy is the right person for this job, that they dont think that they can trust him, that they dont think they can work with him and a lot of them pointed to a Budget Agreement that was made with the president back in may that then Kevin Mccarthy backtracked on, marking up a series of Spending Bills at far lower levels than what was agreed to. That was a determining factor. Also a determining factor, the fact that on saturday despite the fact that for weeks democrats had been wanting to negotiate on a way to keep the government Open Mccarthy at the last minute put on the floor a 45day shortterm Spending Bill and didnt give democrats much time to read it. In fact, democrats had to use Delay Tactics in order to just find time to go through the bill to make sure there werent any poison pills. That didnt build trust. Democrats who were in that room told me. And that is part of the reason why today you can expect they are going to vote with some of those hardline republicans potentially to end the speakership of Kevin Mccarthy this afternoon. All right. Lauren and manu, thanks so much. With us now to discuss, republican Congressman Mark Alford of missouri. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. Youve called this vote to vacate, essentially a vote to remove mccarthy as speaker, youve called it a distraction. Do you expect Kevin Mccarthy will survive this historic challenge to his leadership . I mean, if he doesnt have any democratic votes and if he loses, you know, a handful of republicans, i dont see how he survives. Well, jake, youre absolutely right. Its going to come down to probably four or five individuals who never liked Kevin Mccarthy from The Beginning, who fought him at our conference when i was a memberelect and here for O Orientation we were inside this conference. And from the very beginning they were on the attack. They wanted to present, you know, nancy pelosi did not have this in the house rules that there could be a motion to vacate. She did away with that. They came in, they wanted to have a motion to vacate. I proposed a majority of the majority. I advocated for that. It got whittled down. And for Kevin Mccarthy to get this Leadership Speaker role he basically gave in to these people, and it only takes one vote now, like matt gaetz did, to get before the u. S. House of representatives and call for a vacate of the chair. And thats exactly what happened. So one of the things thats interesting is we hear from these House Democrats and theyre not saying that theyre not going to support Kevin Mccarthy because they disagree with him. Obviously they disagree with him. What theyre saying is they cant trust him. And ive been in this town for decades now, and i know that democrats have not liked the politics of speaker ryan, they didnt like the politics of speaker boehner, but i think that they felt that they could trust them. They could deal with them. That their word was their bond in terms of how they governed. But they dont feel the same way about Kevin Mccarthy. They dont trust him. Is that your sense as well . I dont know where thats coming from. I havent known Kevin Mccarthy long, but as far as i know i have no reason not to trust Kevin Mccarthy. He has done nothing but show deference to the people who really are controlling our conference right now with their five votes. And they know that. Even before he took the Oath Of Office as speaker of the house he was listening to people, not just what was coming out of their mouths but trying to get down to their heart. We would be in conference saying wait a minute, what are you really trying to say . And every conference that we have he has listened to people. We might not always get our way, but everyone has had their say. We have matriculated this ball down the field like a football game. And why with all the wins that weve had on border security, on parents rights, on energy dominance, to get america back on track, why in the world would you change quarterbacks in the middle of the game . I think this is a well, thats fools errand go ahead. No, please, finish. I think its a fools errand. I think its sophomoric. And i dont think its going to work. Who are you going to get who can get 218 votes and hold this conference together like Kevin Mccarthy has . Name them. I dont know who can do it. Yeah, i was just going to say that i think the point that youre making about how much Speaker Mccarthy has deferred to these five or six members is correct. I think he has been very deferential to them and to the Marjorie Taylor greens of the conference. I think that is what the House Democrats would point out. Hes supposed to be speaker of the house, not just speaker of the republican conference. Thats what democrats would say. But i guess the big question i have is how worried are you that this Speakership Fight is going to drag out, its going to affect House Republicans ability to govern, to pass Spending Bills jake. Go ahead. This is the issue. I came here to get something done. Right. Our Freshman Brothers came here because we were this close to losing our nation. And we gave up everything we had in life to come here and serve the people of our district. And now were dealing with these shenanigans. Theyre on the house floor right now debating the rules for energy and water. We have passed four appropriations bills, eight to go. We have 45 days to get this done for the american people. And this is gamemanship that is going to slow us down and prevent us from doing the work that our voters sent us here to do. Its unacceptable. Do you worry that this fight will further demonstrate to voters that House Republicans have trouble governing . Because frankly, every time there is House Republicans take over theres a Government Shutdown. It worries me. Jake, you know, we thought we were going to have this red wave, right . The red wave did not materialize. We ended up with a very slim majority. I dont know how kevin has done this. Herding cats and Juggling Plates in the air trying to get everyone on the same page and make them happy. But americans are seeing that we need a Marriage Counselor basically in our conference and until we get this family settled and we get communication and trust back in the relationships im afraid we might lose our majority. We were sent here to do our job, and without that majority we cannot get it done. And with the slim majority that weve had so far Kevin Mccarthy has been a Miracle Worker and able to push the ball forward. And i sure hope by the end of the day he is still our speaker. Surely there must be a Marriage Counselor among the 435 members of the house, somewhere in there there must be someone. I dont think theres we have pharmacists and doctors and you used to have a large animal veterinarian. Theres got to be someone whos a Marriage Counselor. Congressman mark alford i dont know. We need to get one up here quickly. As soon apossible. Maybe next november. Thanks so much, we appreciate it. Were waiting for the pivotal vote on the house floor. Kevin mccarthy the speaker of the house at least as of this hour attempting to kill the resolution that aims to remove his as speaker. Stay with cnns live special coverage. Stay with us. A republican mutiny is brewing in the House Of Representatives. A bid to take the speakers gavel out of Kevin Mccarthys hands, a move launched by far right congressman matt gaetz who announced it at the first problem is these five recalcitrant republicans. Gaetz of florida, crane and biggs of arizona, good of virginia and burchett of tennessee. Those are the big five. And he only has a margin of four. But also democrats. He has a big problem with democrats because they do not trust him, they do not like him, and one of the problems as you will report for us in one second is this interview he gave while matt gaetz was on State Of The Union talking about how he was going to make this motion to vacate. Speaker mccarthy was on cbs blaming, pretty insanely and counterfactually the almost Government Shutdown on democrats. Lets roll some of that tape. I wasnt sure it was going to pass. You want to know why . Because the democrats tried to do everything they can not to let it pass. Democrats were the ones who voted for this. In larger numbers than republicans. To keep the continuing resolution alive. Did you watch the floor yesterday . Yes. 90 republicans voted against it. So lets walk through what actually happened. First of all, the democrats stood up and did dilatory actions, asked to adjourn. So was that supporting to adjourn . Then they used the magic minute. They went as far as pulling the fire alarm not to try to get the bill to come up. So heres the thing. Democrats saved his bacon on saturday. Democrats kept the government open on saturday. Yes. So my understanding is that that clip, perhaps others, was played at The Beginning of the closeddoor Democratic Caucus meeting this morning, making the point that you just made, saying really . Is this the guy that we want to help bail out . This guy who and this is just one example of why democrats are absolutely furious with Kevin Mccarthy. Its not just runofthemill partisanship. Its the fact that he went on television after they saved his bacon and helped because republicans werent going to keep the government running open. Democrats did. And the fact that he went on and said that was and that im told set the tone for the conversation in this closeddoor meeting this morning. And you saw democrats starting with the leader Hakeem Jeffries come out saying the feeling is theyre on their own. If republicans want to save Kevin Mccarthy, hes going to have to find the votes inside the republican conference. I should note that is one example. Its the most recent example. It is certainly not the whole story. No, theres a long list. The whole story is very long, including Richie Torres was just here on Inside Politics saying the fact congressman from new york. Democratic congressman. Congressman from new york. Thank you. Saying by the way, they have a Kangaroo Court trying to starting to impeach joe biden over things that they dont have evidence for. Thats just another example. And were hearing from our team on the hill that mccarthy allies are making lastminute pleas to House Democrats. We should note that while House Democrats were voting in greater numbers and greater proportion to keep the government open it was not only bigger numbers of House Republicans voting to not keep the government open, it was Republican Leaders like the House Judiciary Committee chairman jim jordan that were voting against mccarthys bill. Yeah, absolutely. The problem that mccarthy has faced is what weve called and danas dealt with this a lot. Getting to 218. If you have the majority and you can get to 218 votes on your own, republican or democrat, you dont need the minority. Obviously were in a very different situation right now because theres a very real risk that he wont be able to get 218 republicans standing up for him. Its why were seeing multiple House Republican conference meetings within the same week. And when you do that, youre guaranteed to be in a bad position. During the 2013 shutdown we opened a meeting with john boehner reading the Serenity Prayer and Steve Sutherland from florida singing Amazing Grace to his republican colleagues. Not a good day. This is light years worse than that. But also, i mean, if you are relying on the minority to keep the government open and to do your bidding, it is probably wise to not then go on a sunday show and crap all over them. Especially if you need their votes in the coming days because your leaderships going to be challenged. One would think that that would be the approach. But yet again, Kevin Mccarthy continues not to act in good faith. So democrats find themselves they want the house to function. They want the government to stay open. Thats why they voted in favor of the bill last week. But at some point you have to say enough is enough and if you cant get your own caucus together, which a speaker is supposed to be able to do to get to 218, and then you go and bash me, you know, what kind of friend is that . Can i just add one piece of context, which i think is important here. It seems as if a big reason why Kevin Mccarthy went on Face The Nation is because matt gaetz was sitting with you. Right. Earlier. And so the reason he was out there is he was trying to Project Strength . Project strength. But also he was very understandably very nervous about where his own conference was. Exactly. Which led him to trash the democrats. Which led him to not have the democrats to bail him out. Let him trash the democrats to try to fortify the support within his conference. But notice what happened. Obviously, it didnt go very well. And notice what happened immediately thereafter. He started making the institutional argument. Right . Instead of going on the attack on democrats that weve heard from Kevin Mccarthy the last couple of days has been this argument in favor of the institution and hoping that that would have some appeal. I just want to say, Kevin Mccarthy could have gone on sunday and thrown roses at democrats and im not sure hed be in a very different position. I just in democrats ive talked to Kevin Mccarthy, in the aftermath of january 6th, when he first came out and seemed like he wanted to hold donald trump accountable for his actions, for his repeated lies about the 2020 election that led up to the insurrection, and then flipped on that within days to go down On Bended Knee to maralago and keep donald trump in the fold and keep his conference loyal to donald trump, that is something Many Democrats ive spoken to do not are not going to forget. A. B, as Richie Torres told you, this notion that just weeks ago he launched this Impeachment Inquiry that the republicans own witnesses suggest that theres not enough evidence for to be at the impeachment process yet, is another reason why ive heard from democrats that they have no interest in engaging in this conversation about Kevin Mccarthy. So yes, i dont think sunday helped matters, but im not sure wed be in a different position. Dana, i know youve covered Kevin Mccarthy for a lot of years before he was speaker. And ive talked to him in many different settings in public, Off The Record and other things. And i think the thing that really defines him as a person is that he is very, very good at telling the person sitting across the table from him at that moment what they want to hear. Right . What do i need to do to get you in the seat of this car to leave this lot today . Exactly. I will tell you whatever that is. I will sell it to you. Whether youre a reporter and hes trying to come across as in the trump years kind of the reasonable guy who really gets how crazy it all is. But you know, he understands. Hes saying Something Else in public, sure, but thats because hes having a conversation in public with a different audience. And i think thats what youre seeing happen here in real time. Until sunday his audience was the hardliners. He was trying to tell them what they wanted to hear. And i think you saw a version of this on january 6th as well. He took in that information. I was at the capitol complex on january 6th. I had conversations with Kevin Mccarthy in the immediate aftermath where he repeated some of the initial things he had said on the floor and then just days later he turns around and realizes his audience is a different one and he has to sing a different tune and he starts doing that. And honestly, i think this worked really well for him before he was the guy with the gavel. This was something that allowed him to get where he is, but when you are the leader at the end of the day you have to make some harder decisions than hes been forced to so far. Lets go to lauren fox right now, who has some reporting on House Democrats who are going to have at least two votes in front of them. One will be on a motion to table whether or not the resolution to remove mcccarthy, whether they cable that motion or not. And then assuming that is not tabled whether they vote to vacate Kevin Mccarthy. What do you have for us . Reporter yeah, jake. I mean, this was long expected right after democrats came out of their Caucus Meeting, it was very clear that the trust for Kevin Mccarthy was not there. But Democratic Leaders making it official in this letter to their colleagues saying, quote, it is now the responsibility of the gop members to end the House Republican civil war. Given their unwillingness to break from maga extremism in an authentic and comprehensive manner, house Democratic Leadership will vote yes on the pending republican motion to vacate the chair. That means they are not helping Kevin Mccarthy. And time after time, member after member we spoke with earlier today made clear that that was the consensus in the Democratic Caucus meeting from Pramila Jayapal who came out and spoke with us to others who are members of the problem solvers caucus, which is a more moderate caucus of the Democratic Caucus. It was very clear that they have a problem with Kevin Mccarthy. And it isnt a problem that just happened today. It is not just democrats saying we dont like Kevin Mccarthy and we think hes vulnerable in this moment. It is because they feel like this is a pattern of behavior from the speaker of the house that despite the fact that theyve come to the Negotiating Table with him on issues like the debt ceiling earlier this summer and spending levels earlier this year, that he did not stick to those deals. And thats part of the reason theyre not bailing him out now. Jake . All right, lauren, thank you so much. Everyone, stand by. President bidens top advisers are closely monitoring the fastmoving events unfolding on capitol hill. Were live at the white house next. Were going to squeeze in a quick break. Well be right back. The power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. And thats a good thing . Great in my book who are you . No power . No problem. Introducing stormready wifi. Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Home of the xfinity 10g network. A highstakes drama playing out right this minute on capitol hill. At any moment now we will watch an historic vote on a motion aimed at removing the speaker of the house, Kevin Mccarthy of california. Hes hoping to defeat the effort to oust him, an effort spearheaded by republican hardliner matt gaetz of florida, who announced his intention to do so on cnns State Of The Union on sunday. But if mccarthys unsuccessful in this key vote, he could be on his way to becoming the very first speaker of the House Of Representatives to have his gavel taken away in more than a cen century. As we await the vote on the house floor, lets check in on the view from the white house down the street. Cnns m. J. Lee is there. M. J. , what do we know about how President Biden is reacting to these fastmoving events on capitol hill . Reporter well, jake, it is no surprise that white house officials and advisers to President Biden, they are very closely monitoring everything that is unfolding on capitol hill right now, and it is safe to say there is recognition here at the white house that the white house soon could be dealing with a new speaker of the house and a new leader of an unruly House Republican conference. Now, i dont have to tell you that President Biden and Speaker Mccarthy, they have a complicated working relationship. At times this relationship has been outright contentious. But there is, again, a recognition that a new speaker will mean a whole new potentially Political Landscape for democrats and this white house to navigate. I think one urgent priority for this white house that is worth looking at is of course the question of Ukraine Funding. This is something that got left out of the Government Funding Bill that passed over the weekend. But we heard President Biden over the weekend seeming to suggest that he had received some new assurances from Speaker Mccarthy that he would eventually bring up the Ukraine Funding piece of this separately in the house. Obviously in a scenario where he is no longer the House Speaker all of those conversations, any potential assurances that the white house received, those all end up going out the window. I will also note, of course, publicly white house officials including the president himself, they have been very, very careful over the last couple of days to not publicly weigh in whenever they have been asked about potential leadership changes, they have said look, all of this is for lawmakers on capitol hill to decide, this is not something that the white house is going to weigh in on. And there is just a general sense here at the white house, and were seeing this play out among democrats on capitol hill that there certainly is no political upside for democrats to weigh in in a way that seems like they are helping out speaker Kevin Mccarthy. M. J. Lee at the white house, thanks so much. Lets go to manu raju on capitol hill right now. Votes are going to start at any minute, manu. Youre waiting for Speaker Mccarthy to walk by your camera. What are you going to ask him . Reporter yeah, i want to know what he will do if and when he loses these votes. That is really the big question at the moment. There seems to be no question that he does not have the votes to survive both the first procedural effort to stop matt gaetzs resolution to kick him out of the speakership. Then it would actually go on to the underlying resolution to actually vacate the speakership. Something thats never been successfully executed on the house floor ever in American History. But at the moment Kevin Mccarthy does not have the votes, doesnt have democrats who will help him and has more than five republicans who will vote to kick him out. He can only afford to lose four republicans. So the big question right now is what happens next . Because then it would go to a speakers race. Theyd have to elect a new speaker. Someone needs to get a majority of votes in the house. If theres no Elected Speaker the house is in a state of paralysis, it cant move forward, it cant legislate, and they must elect a speaker. The question right now is will mccarthy put himself up as a candidate for speaker in that situation . He has indicated for some time hes ready to fight. He keeps saying that hes never going to quit. But does that mean that he wont quit and continue to be a candidate and put his name up over and over again as we saw back in january . Those are major questions right now, jake, as the speaker is recognizing he knows full well where the votes lie, but what is his next step . Thats what a lot of his allies want to know, what he will do in the aftermath of this historic vote. Jake. All right. Manu raju, thank you so much. Waiting on this key vote for speaker, Kevin Mccarthy. Stay with cnn. Were going to squeeze in a quick break. Well be right back. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. The u. S. House of representatives is bracing for a key vote soon over the fate of House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy. As republican congressman matt gaetz of florida pushes for mccarthy to be fired. My panels back with me. Ashley allison, what do you make of the democrats apparently deciding byebye . Yeah. I mean, its not like Kevin Mccarthy is really their friend. But also i think this is a really historic moment for Hakeem Jeffries. His position the democratic leader in the house. Yeah. Its the first time an African American has had that role. And hes looking at what the outcome might be in 2024 where he could actually be the speaker of the house if democrats are able to get back the majority. And so this is a test of his leadership also. Can he keep his caucus together . Can he make sure that some democrats that might be more moderate dont actually support Kevin Mccarthy . And they came out it seems like as a Democratic Caucus to say we are going to vote as a unified bloc. The other thing is imagine some democrats in the caucus that might be primaried in 2024, what their their democratic opponent might do running an ad for someone who supported Kevin Mccarthy in a moment like this. Its not good politics for the dems to try to protect Kevin Mccarthy. Leave it to the republicans to figure it out. You know, its also interesting because after that tumultuous House Speaker vote in january there seemed to be this kind of nice moment between democratic leader jeffries and Speaker Mccarthy. There seemed to be this kind of oh, look, theyre getting along and theyre going to work together. I guess thats no longer. It was a very, very short honeymoon. Shortest in history. You know, to go back to the Marriage Counselor analogy that was used earlier from congressman alford, yes. Right now republicans are being mom and dad and theyre having the fight in front of the kids. And its every kid in america at this point. And part of why its gotten so personal is id say two images that we saw yesterday. One was of matt gaetz on the capitol steps, surrounded by a bank of cameras. Thats reason one. The other was an email solicitation that matt gaetz sent out. Join me in my fight to oust Kevin Mccarthy. Click here to give me money. Thats reason number two that its happening. And if were having this conversation a year ago on whats going on in the campaign, were talking about bad candidates that republicans have nominated. Republicans have the small majority because Mitch Mcconnell was right. We nominated a lot of terrible candidates. A lot of them lost, which is why our majoritys small. Some of them won and theyre clearly not being helpful actors for mccarthy or the republican majority. But go ahead. I was just going to say that, yes, Hakeem Jeffries and Kevin Mccarthy have almost nothing in common when it comes to policies. But they have an i would even argue still have a way better working relationship than most people would know. I guess now its out that they text regularly. Its completely different than Kevin Mccarthy and nancy pelosi, who barely Kevin Mccarthy made quite clear b exactly. On speaking terms. What did he say . Kevin mckarth i why was speaking to reporters and was talking about what youre saying and actually said he had no relationship with pelosi. That that relationship did not exist and would not be in any position like hes in with jeffries today of even having a conversation. He couldnt have been more clear about how despite being from the same congressional delegation from california. Thats true. Or maybe because of that. So given that and given the fact that Hakeem Jeffries, its not like he has this sort of love for Kevin Mccarthy. They have a working relationship. One of the questions, and this is why youre hearing Kevin Mccarthy use the word institution, one of the questions all of a sudden. That Hakeem Jeffries was grappling with is my understanding was what were going to likely see this afternoon will do to the institution of the House Of Representatives. He decided, it seems, after the meeting this morning and what he said before the cameras that its not up to democrats to worry about the institution. Republicans were the ones elected in the majority. They have to deal with the institution. But can i just say, kasie, what ive heard from democrats about Kevin Mccarthy, what the institution of congress is, Kevin Mccarthy was out there saying that donald trump won the election in a landslide. Right. Kevin mccarthy in addition to supporting the big lie about the 2020 election literally voted to disenfranchise the voters of pennsylvania and arizona after the insurrection, when bodies when dead bodies were still warm. He still voted that way. And i think a lot of people are like since when do you care about institutions . I think thats why theres such a credibility deficit. Right . If mccarthy didnt have those issues that you ticked through i mean, perhaps he wouldnt be speaker today. But certainly there wouldnt i think the conversation around whether he was worth saving would be a more intensive one. I think danas right. They do have a working relationship. Theyre from the same generation. They have kids around the same age. They get each other in a way that pelosi and mccarthy she barely deigned to speak to Kevin Mccarthy. Lets be realistic about that. I think the question here big picture i have, jake, is at the end of the day were talking a lot about whats best for everybodys political interests, whats best for Kevin Mccarthy. I kind of wonder what is best for the country. And i think there are two potential ways this could go. One is that republicans realize mccarthy is untenable, theres Somebody Else that steps up, a tom emmer or Steve Scalise or Somebody Else and they manage to get 218 and we kind of continue on and perhaps democrats regret that they have a more conservative speaker, somebody who has more power honestly than Kevin Mccarthy. Or we see a situation where theres a prolonged fight over getting a speaker at all and instead were talking about potential secret lists this persons in the president ial line of succession. Theyre critical to our government functioning. We are sending quite a message to the rest of the world in potentially having functionally a Headless House thats incapable of doing anything. And i think if we get to that point theres going to have to be some real Soul Searching among everyone involved in this whole catastrophe about what to do to keep the country in the place it should be. But i guess the other question is with such a slim majority the republicans like these five rogue congressmen, i dont have a better term for them, but the gaetz five lets call them for now, like who are they willing to support . I mean, are they willing to support tom emmer . Are they willing to support tom cole . I dont know. Which is why that first path is not clear. I dont know that theyre willing to support Steve Scalise. I have no idea who theyre willing to support. Were going to squeeze in another quick vote. Were waiting on this quick vote on speaker Kevin Mccarthy. Stick with cnn. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. All right. Ive just been informed that the gaetz five who are challenging speaker Kevin Mccarthy political future are now the gaetz six. Lets get to cnns chief Congressional Correspondent manu raju on capitol hill, standing with republican congressman ralph norman. Hes not a member of the gaetz six, i should point out, manu. Reporter thats right, Congressman Norman A member of the caucus. Something is keeping speaker from this moment. Why . I dont think the timing is right. We got 43 days to get the appropriations bill over. Let us do that. He cant surrender to the senate and cannot agree of the threat of shutdown but senate owns it. Kevin deserves that. Kevin caused this. Thats the reason were to this point, he didnt push it in june or july. So, i think thats right. If he loses this, then hes going to be out of the speakership to vacate. Do you continue to support him, if he goes to the floor, ballot after ballot after ballot . Your support is unshakeable right now . Yeah, the timing is wrong. Look at the things we face in the country. Look at the things on the line. Its a pivotal time. Yeah, i did in january with the 1515 votes. You were skeptical. At first you didnt support him. Now, youre totally on the mccarthy team. I didnt support him, but he made some great concessions that helped the country. There werent any earmarks for ralph norman. It wasnt anything for me. It was the fact we wanted 72 hours notice. We wanted single Subject Bills and amendments. So it was great. And i think most people agreed to that. You were part of those talks in january, matt gaetz said he violated promises. And its time for disagreement. Do you disagree . And what did he do . Well, matt kevin is in the shape because of things he didnt do. But the thing is, he deserves the time on the debt ceiling, he surrendered. He said, let us go to the corporations and he would pretty much make sure that the numbers that we wouldnt be sold down the river and just spinning it into oblivion. Hes got it do that, he deserves the 30, 35 days to do that. How do you think it makes the party look right now. This is something we havent seen on the floor for a hundred years. Its never happened in American History that the speaker was ejected from speakership. As were going to see this afternoon, you guys heading into a very different election vierltd to keep the majority. How does this look . It shows that the Republican Party is eager to debate. It shows a Republican Party that people feel strongly, they use the voting card. Theyre no longer controlled by anybody but their conscience. Its a great voting process. Thats why we didnt do it in january. Hasnt been done for 70 years. On this vote, same way, it hasnt happened, thats fine. I have no problem with this. Its a democratic process. Im not voting to change the rule or motion to vacate. In the private sector, if you dont do the job you get fired. Well see if he gets fired here, congressman ralph norman, thank you. Back to you. Stay with us, following the key vote on Kevin Mccarthys future. The special coverage continued. Well squeeze in one more quick break. Stay with us