Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240703

The power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. And thats a good thing . Great in my book who are you . No power . No problem. Introducing stormready wifi. Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Home of the xfinity 10g network. This is cnn breaking news. You are still alive in the cnn newsroom, i am jim acosta in washington. Good evening. Up on capitol hill tonight, its all on the senate. The senate has now just four hours thats right. Actually, less than four hours, to prevent a Government Shutdown that would hurt millions of americans this afternoon. The house passed a short term continuing resolution, and here is how it went down. The yays our 330, five the nays are 91. Two thirds being in the affirmative, the rules are suspended. The bill is passed, and with motion to reconsider is laid on the table. The house overwhelmingly passed a bipartisan short term Spending Bill. It would provide 45 days of Government Funding. It includes federal Disaster Relief assistance, but it does not include aid to ukraine, which has been a wrinkle in all of this, all afternoon. A big, big wrinkle. That has caused a holdup in the senate, but we have just learned that the senate will be gaveling into sessions. In lets go straight to capitol hill, where manu raju has spent a very long day working sources and chasing his sources lawmakers. Manu raju, i thought i heard somebody tell me a couple of hours ago, this would be over by now, you and i could go down the street, get a glass of scotch, have a cigar. Welcome to the United States senate. Any person can hold things up. And thats what happened this afternoon. Senator jim bennett lack of ukraine funding in his proposal. But he has been asking for a bipartisan commitment of support to show support for the ukrainian cause. It appears that is going to happen here. It appears the vote, jim and stop me if you heard this before but this does seem imminent. The vote does seem imminent. Now because of various reason another top senate republican, tom pilsen, says it could happen in the next ten minutes and perhaps the biggest indication of all, Chuck Schumer, the Senate Majority leader, his office said he is going to go to the floor and make some remarks. That is expected to lock in the vote, the final vote, to avoid a Government Shutdown, after a back and forth and the fears of the shutdown because of gop divisions in the house gop, ultimately Speaker Mccarthy changed course and decided to pass a bill with democratic, support along with republican support, get it out of his chamber, extend Government Funding for 45 days. Now, thats what the senate will act on here. But there is still concerned about ukraine and about everything that happened, transpired over the last several days. I caught up with one senate republican, bill cassidy, about all of this. He did indicate, still, supporting the ukrainian cause and also indicated that things are just messy. And that is what transpired here over the last several days. I do support the ukrainians, both in the fight for freedom, but also their debilitating the russians. Because the russians are coming up to us. Government is. Messi and anybody that once a lovely government should all right. We hate to break into that, but lets go to Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer. Hes on the floor of the senate, on the effort to avoid a Government Shutdown. Without objection i move to proceed to hr 5860 motion to proceed to hr 5860, an Act Making Continuing Appropriations For Fiscal Year 2024 and for other purposes. Madam president , i know of no further debate on the motion. Is there further debate . If not, all in favor say aye. Aye. Ayes have it. 2024 and for other purposes. Madam president , i now ask unanimous consent to their be up to five minutes for debate, equally divided between the two leaders or their designated persons. The senate vote on passage of hr 5860, with 60 affirmative votes required for passage and with no amendments or motions in order to the bill, prior to the vote, on passage. Is there objection . Without objection, so ordered. Madam president the Majority Leader is recognized. I have very good news for the country. Democrats and republicans have come to an agreement, and the government will remain open. We will have avoided a shutdown. Bipartisanship, which has been the trademark of the senate, has prevailed. And the American People can breathe a sigh of relief. But this is a bridge c. R. , and Leader Mcconnell and i have agreed to continue fighting for more economic and security aid for ukraine. We support ukraines efforts to defend its sovereignty against putins aggression. So, thank you. Thank you to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle for their excellent work. The bipartisanship here in the senate set the tone for todays result, and i hope it sets the tone for the future. I yield the floor. The republican leader is recognized. With just a few hours to spare, the senate is now in a position to prevent a harmful and unnecessary Government Shutdown. As i have said for weeks, the clearest path forward has been two paths a straightforward short term Funding Extension that gives us time to continue a number of important discussions about outstanding priorities, from securing supplemental relief for victims of natural disasters, to restoring security and sanity at the southern border that the Biden Administration has dragged into chaos, to putting stronger restraints on the president s reckless spending, to supplying ukraine with even more of the lethal assistance it needs to repel russias invasion. On that particular point, Madam President , most Senate Republicans remain committed to helping our friends on the frontlines, to invest in more heavily american strength that reinforces our allies and deter our top should he jake adversary, china. Im confident the senate will pass further urgent assistance to ukraine later this year. But lets be clear. The alternative to our action today, an entirely avoidable Government Shutdown, would not just pause our progress on these important priorities. It would actually set them back. And in the process, it would saddle the people we represent with unnecessary hardships. So, i am glad our colleagues in the house have taken action on a continuing resolution that keeps the critical government functions going at their current rates of operation. Passing this measure, keeping the lights on, will allow us to return our attention to Making Headway on full year appropriations our colleagues have been working on, literally, four months, and will give us the flexibility to meet urgent supplemental priorities both at home and abroad. Therefore, i would urge our colleagues to join me in supporting this important step in the right direction. And we are looking at live pictures right now of the United States and, it as they are about to take up the vote to avoid a Government Shutdown. You just heard from the Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, the minority leader, Mitch Mcconnell. They are in agreement. And lets listen in as this vote happens. Well call the roll. Mr. Baldwin was ms. Blackburn mr. Booker, mr. Boseman, mr. Brown, mr. But, ed mr. , cantwell, mr. Caputo mr. Casey. Let me turn to my colleague, manu raju, who is Up On Capitol Hill right now, as we are both watching this. Manu raju, can you help, without help the viewers out at home, what we are looking at right now. Is this . It this is, it jim. Chuck schumer and Mitch Mcconnell, they reached an agreement and the final vote, to keep the government open on this bill that passes the house just today, 45day extension. They said they went to the floor, nobody objected. That means they locked in the final vote. And thats exactly what is happening right now on the senate floor, after mcconnell and schumer both spoke as we heard, now the senators are going to come, aye and nay, this will probably take an hour or so and it takes a long time for the senate to vote and its a very oldfashioned chamber. They still vote by paper ballots, they dont do things electronically, like the house does, this including single votes. So this vote is and maybe 9 00 hour and when it will pass probably overwhelmingly. It will be interesting to see how many people actually vote against this measure because of what Chuck Schumer and Mitch Mcconnell are talking about their. Ukraine, that has been such an issue, so central in the senate as sowing the divisions between Senate Republicans and House Republicans, over continuous support for ukraine. Mitch mcconnell, the republican leader, is such a staunch advocate for more funding for ukraine. He sided with Chuck Schumer in agreement with Six Billion Dollars in ukraine aid in the senates plan to keep the government open in mid november. That plan moving through the legislative process did not receive a final vote yet. And Kevin Mccarthy, the speaker of the house, said it was dead on arrival, in large part because it included funding for ukraine. That is why the speaker decided to push that aside, move forward the bill that did not include aid for ukraine, but kept the government open, would keep the government open for 45 days, includes a made for national Disaster Relief, did not go for with Spending Cuts as he had been pushing, what is security measures, as he had been pushing, because he needs democratic support, which is how what happened today in a really, in a Wheelie Lightning speed, in the house, as the speaker retreated from his position but nevertheless, would pass this out of the house, now its into the senate, after a daylong negotiation, with some of the members, who were concerned about lack of ukraine aid and Michael Bennet bipartisan show of commitment, perhaps that was there on the floor. We will see if theres comes up after this. But they have resolved that concerned. Now, they are going to pass this bill. And jim, guess what . In 45 days we could be doing this yet again, as they are going to have to find a way to fund the government, and then a short term Spending Bill, through the end of this current fiscal year. Yeah, and the cycle of brinkmanship in the United States congress continues. And manu raju, correct me if i am wrong, but it sounds like, at the end of the day, what we are going to witness here is, yes, the government is going to be kept open. But also, it sounds like the hardest of his being postponed, put off for another day. And that is a vote on whether or not the United States government will continue to fund aid and assistance for the people of ukraine in their fight against the russians. That did not get resolved today. It got yanked out of the house bill. And, over, i guess, the grumbling of some senators in the senate, its got to get through the senate tonight. And that remains an open question out, moving forward. Yeah, look, this is what congress does best. They punt. Whenever they confront a complicated issue, its punt to the next time, worry about it later. Thats exactly what they are doing now. Theres no real clear path about how this gets resolved, as long as the speaker maintains, not oppose he is not saying he is opposed to funding for ukraine. But he is not guaranteeing. He has not the white house proposed, which is 24 billion. And that is only a piece of what ukraine probably needs. What capitol hill 25 just a piece of what ukraine may need, until next year. They may need even more for the fight back the russians in this war that the world is watching in ukraine right now. And the question is, will that commitment be there from the United States, given the division that are growing in the Republican Party . As well as public support in some aspects of as well, that is raising real concerns about whether this will actually get approved, even though, jim, overwhelming, lee in the senate and the house, theres bipartisan support for funding ukraine. But the leadership decides in congress what gets on the floor. And at the moment, Kevin Mccarthy has decided not to put ukraine aid on the floor. Wait for another day to deal with that issue. We will see when that day comes what he ultimately decides, and whether or not this aid eventually becomes law. Yeah, and thats going to be a day of reckoning, not only for the people of the United States and the government, here but for the people of ukraine. Because it is one thing for Zelenskyy To Go Up On Capitol Hill, as he did in recent weeks, and pose for pictures with lawmakers, go over to the white house, meet with the president and so on. That is one thing. It is quite another thing for members of congress to take these hard votes, to make sure that the fight continues in ukraine and that putin is not just getting a red carpet on the way to kyiv. Manu raju, as always, thank you so much. We will be tuning into Inside Politics at 11 00 a am as you will be hosting that show manu, stick around, we we will back with you on the other side. Stay with us. Be right back. All right, today, a surreal and frantic scramble Up On Capitol Hill to avoid a shutdown, House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy abandoned his promise to conservative hardliners on increased Border Security and Spending Cuts, opting instead to pass a funding bill with mostly democratic votes. Now, the senate is voting to pass the house bill before the government runs out of money. Lets discuss with cnn political commentator commentator and spectrums political commentator, errol louis. Errol louis, your sense of what took place today. We were just talking about this with manu raju a few moments ago. The House Speaker had his back up against the wall, it seems. He was not going to get anywhere with his republican conference alone and there was just too much infighting going inside the conference. So, we had to work with democrats to get this done here. And it was really just driving the government to the brink of a shutdown. We are seeing this take place right now in the senate, as was manu just explaining a few moments ago. It is not like the house where a vote can be with over in a few minutes. This might take within the course of the next hour or so. This was a close call. Yeah, absolutely. And listen, what happened is, the speaker was dealing with a faction of his conference, about 21 members, who would not take yes for an answer. They said they wanted to tie the government staying open to whether or not there would be an impeachment hearing. He gave that to them. That was not enough. They said they wanted to have deep budget cuts. He put something on the floor the other day, jim, as you remember, that included 30 cuts in nonmilitary discretionary funding. Deep, deep cuts. They didnt go for that. They even wanted to sort of do away with the practice of these continuing resolutions that extend through government, while negotiating, and they wanted to go through the regular appropriations process, and even those have been making process. And so, i think, at some point, the speaker decided this is just not worth it. We are not going to shut down the government over something that cant really be negotiated. And i dont know if we have heard anybody today who gave some clear indication of what given these 21 members who that would have shop stop them from cooler heads prevailed. He lives to fight another day. This is not over, of course. He is going to have to deal with his faction of his Congress Conference yet again. He may, in fact, be planning to try and oust him. But, for now, at least, the good news is that millions of federal workers are not gonna have their lives turned upside down. And that would have been a giant, miss manu raju, who is also with us, had the shutdown occurred. They would have been far reaching efforts on the parts of some the to minimize what would have been a big miss for americans across the country, had the shutdown gone into effect. But, i guess, to errols point, im kind of wondering, and maybe im being too optimistic here, is whether some of the hardliners were the incentivized in this process at the very end. Because they did take things to the brink. And they did not get what they wanted. Look, i dont think they are going to back off, though, jim. I think they are angry about this. And the question is what they are going to do in the weeks ahead. The question i have is, how will this change how mccarthy deals with these hardliners in the months and weeks ahead . This is really the most direct he has taken them on in his time as speaker. He has worked with them, try to keep them in line, knowing that one member could call for a vote, seeking his ouster at any moment. Time and time again, he has sided with them, whether it was a vote on an impeachment inquiry, the didnt have the support votes to actually launch an impeachment inquiry. He announced it, what happened, because he is getting pressure from those members on the farright. Or his decision to back off Spending Levels that he agreed to as part of the deal to raise the National Debt limit. He backed off on those Spending Levels and sought deeper cuts, because of those same members. Those members who held the Floor Hostage in the house early in the summer, ultimately force mccarthy to cut a deal to actually seek deeper Spending Cuts, which is the big reason why congress is in this fight over funding the federal government, because mccarthy had to listen to those hardliners. But today, he took a different approach, took them on directly, and said, i am going to pass this bill with bipartisan support, with democratic support, something that they were warning him against and now we have to see what the political consequences are of any of that action. So, the question i have, will this change his approach in 45 days when have to fund the government, or any other big issue, that they have to deal with for the next you are so . Or, if not, maybe it wont. Maybe he will go back to catering to that part of his conference. And we will see if hes able to make amends with them. Right. And, i guess, errol, one of the things we heard from the House Speaker earlier today is that somebody had to be the adult in the room. But i suppose one could argue that he has not been the adult in the room every day. And the question is whether or not the adult shows up on monday. Do mom and dad come back from their Weekend Getaway . Or do the kids still run the house . You know, the kids may still want to play some pranks. You know . And thats the thing to really watch for, is that, i think, procedurally, within about 48 hours they are going to be able to really challenge his leadership and that motion to vacate could be in our near future. If you think back to those 15 rounds of votes it took for him to be speaker, this is a group that does not mind looking down on national television, doesnt mind holding up the works, doesnt mind bringing congress to a halt. I think today suggesting that they may have overplayed their hand, but that remains to be seen. They say have still got a couple really strong cards to play. And those, frankly, a card that the speaker gave them, by allowing any one of them i mean, with no numerical minimum at all any one of them can decide to bring up a motion to vacate. He is just asking for trouble. And he might well get it in the next few days, jim. All right, well errol louis, and manu raju, thanks to both of you. I just want to remind our viewers, you are looking at live pictures right now of the United States senate for its 8 24 pm easter time we are a little less than four hours to a Government Shutdown, but the senate is on a path to approving that short term Spending Bill that came out of the house, to keep the government running for another 45 days. We heard from the Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, the minority leader Mitch Mcconnell. They have given this legislation their blessing. We are expecting it to pass within the hour. We will take a quick break. We will be back in a few minutes, and pick up the conversation. They are stay with us. Oh right, you are looking at live pictures right now of the United States and. The senate is voting to keep the government running, a bill passed the house earlier today that would fund the government for the next 45 days. The senate is about to pass that legislation, we believe, in the next 30 to 45 minutes. So, of course we are going to keep looking in on the action there as that develops. But in the meantime, i want to go back to manu raju, who has been Up On Capitol Hill all day long, keeping tabs on everything. And manu, i understand you have a statement from House Democratic leaders on the subject of ukraine and other matters, i suppose, but that has been the key to all this. It will be. This is going to be a huge fight in the fall, getting this aid to ukraine. Mrs. , of course, not included in this, bill to keep the government open for 45 days, because of the decision by Speaker Mccarthy not to include it in their, given the divisions within his own conference of moving ahead the funding for ukraine. But in the statement that just came out from the top democratic leaders, Hakeem Jeffries and his leadership team, they indicate that they do believe that mccarthy will put this on the floor. It says, when the house return, we expect Speaker Mccarthy to advance a bill to the house floor for an up or down vote that supports ukraine, is consistent with his commitment to making sure that vladimir putin, russia and authoritarianism are defeated in this, it says we must stand with ukraine and ukraines victory victory. To unpack this a little bit, mccarthy has not fully committed to having a vote on, this on the house floor. He has indicated that it should move separately from this Government Funding legislation, but has not said explicitly that he would put this bill the white house has requested 24 Billion Dollars in aid to ukraine. He has not indicated that that would come up for a vote. These leaders think that some version of that will come up for a vote. It will be interesting to watch and play out this could be tied into the fight to, potentially, oust Kevin Mccarthy from the speakership, because his decision to move forward to keep the government open and relied Emma Craft Democratic votes to extend the Government Funding and keep the government open for 45 days in but if Kevin Mccarthy needs democratic support in any way to maintain his speakership, those democrats are going to be seeking some concessions from the speaker, expect ukraine, jim, to be a big part of what they are asked, Kevin Mccarthy, as this scenario plays out. It is one that is being actively discussed Behind Closed Doors by democrats and republicans alike that trying to game at the situation. Ukraine could be a big piece of the puzzle here. Earlier today, jim, i asked the speaker if he expects he would need democratic support to maintain the speakership if they try to push him out of the speakership. He did not respond to that directly. He went on to say, bring it on. Im ready to have this fight to become speaker. He did not say if he would need democratic votes. But if he does, jim, ukraine could be sent a part of those negotiations in the coming days, here. Yeah, this aid to ukraines goal going to be riding on what takes place over the next several weeks. Stand by all of you, if you can. Manu, great, thanks always, for that reporting. Joining me now to talk with us further for theres Senior Leadership studies at the Yale School Of Management Jeffrey Sonnenfeld will the United States stand by us . That is with ukraines ukrainians have been what do you make of what took place today . Thank you. What took place today, will rogers once said, i am not a member of any organized political party, i am a democrat. There was an oklahoma statement. He would have to reverse parties if you are saying that today, years later. Certainly, the lack of organization was a problem. But the fact that they would make this a Ukraine Versus Usa she was absolutely insane, it just getting back, as you mentioned, a fortune piece was just out the other day, was highlighting what we heard, and saw everywhere, in kyiv and comparing it to the rebuilding of warsaws a great inspiration this fear it is so strong. But this is a terrible time to suggest any weakening in our resolve to undermine the enthusiasm of our allies and of course the ukrainians. But everybody is vulnerable. There this is an incredibly expansion of totalitarian. And, of all things, this is the 85th anniversary, tonight, as we are speaking, of neville chamberlains Fateful Appeasement plan that sow coming to hitler. So, how could we possibly finland, poland, everybody is so nervous this is cheap. This is a small investment. This is not a big expenditure. No. You are absolutely right. And as i was talking about, with manu earlier today, now that the House Republicans have gotten this taken out of the Spending Bill and it is kicked over to the senate where they feel like they have to pass this now to avoid a Government Shutdown, it is now a live question as to whether or not of course, we think we can get something out of the senate, to keep funding going for ukraine. But over the house of representatives, its a different matter altogether. I am wondering if you could speak, to Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, what kind of message this would send, not only to the ukrainians but the world, if the United States is incapable of keeping this flow of aid to ukrainians going. It would be horrifying. We would be reneging on our commitments. Obviously, it puts taiwan in great jeopardy, in addition to triggering an alarm throughout all of nato. But this would, of course, lead to Putin Trampling in two countries right on the border. And we need would have some horrific Third World War not even 5 of the u. S. Defense budget that we are talking about here. The Biden Administration has asked for a additional 24 Billion Dollars. This and it only cleared a quarter of, that six billion. And the house is now sitting on that six billion. This is not much money. All the money we have spent on ukraine today to get as his only 5 of the u. S. Defense budget or less than 1 of the u. S. Government federal budget in general. Every european now the eu has spent just as much militarily, and twice as much in humanitarian assistance. So, we are not looking too good on. This it is shameful. We spent three times this on the Marshall Plan, which was money well spent. But i do Mitch Mcconnell on his resolve. There is a u. S. Senator, a very conservative senator, arthur vandenberg, from the gop in that 1947, who stood. He was an isolationist, and he stood behind Truman In General Marshall to make the Marshall Plan come alive. And this is the kind of role that Mitch Mcconnell is playing, bringing his party along here. So, i support his result. But boy, this is a terrible signal to put out that there is any uncertainty right now. There are questions right now about the which has been very effective. And we dont want to take a look at anything that melts down the sanctions are anything we have done. We have to redo the Oil Price Gouging as an aside to elevate some enforcement there. But we have seen that putin weve destroyed almost half of his military, by estimates. His economy is collapsing. He is as only you and i have talked before on the show hes surviving only by cannibalizing his economy. Every sector has fallen by 60 to 95 . The only thing he hopes for is attrition and propaganda to weaken the results of the allies, and that is what this messaging does, is to put some self doubt, some very destructive. And a moment when, arguably, putin has sort of fallen on his face in all of this. And to give him a pass at this moment, which is what, essentially, it would do, if the United States were to stop funding the ukrainians. Thats exactly right russian aggression into the furnace to keep the fire burning. And, by the way, keeping things burning, i dont know how you are going five hours straight inch 12 hours of prep for this show, and a half the u. S. House of representatives showing up on this great broadcast. Congratulations. I appreciate that very, much Jeffrey Sonnenfeld. And its always great to talk to you. Thank you so. Much speaking of someone who has been working long hours and burning the candle candle at both ends is kayla tausche. And kate, let let me go to you, because i know you have been waiting for a long, long time. I have to imagine, and i know they are probably going to say, no, no, no, we know there is another bill that is going to get past and ukraine funding will be there, but i have to think that it is just a touch bit of nervousness over there as how this is playing out. The white house right, now jim, is in its own holding pattern, as they await the passage of the senate bill, which i am told the president will sign as soon as it is received by the white house in order to avert a shut down by midnight. There is a little bit of a sense of relief that the shutdown is averted, even though the messaging plan all along with the blame republicans, and the white house felt like it could do that effectively. The fact of a shutdown is just a huge headache for the federal government, for the business of governing, a huge log jam for agencies, which have Tens Of Thousands of employees that would be stripped down to skeleton crews. And if those conversations were underway, and being able to avoid that, is a win in and of itself for the administration. It is also being seen as a victory that they were able to avoid some of those deep Spending Cuts the republicans were pursuing. The bigger picture, jim, i think the white house is seeing this as a victory to finally get that acknowledgment from House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy that he cannot go it alone, that, on some of these most pressing matters that there are not enough votes within the Republican Party to move forward on some of the harder Line Positions that he was trying to put forth. And they believe that that acknowledgment gives them a ton of leverage going forward. On ukraine aid, yes, there is some trepidation. But you heard senator tim kaine say earlier that, when the white house and that 24 Billion Dollar request on ukraine to congress in august, that was a standalone request. It was never meant to be lobbed into a continuing resolution. Perhaps its not 24 Billion Dollars that the administration is able to secure on ukraine. But they do believe that, Behind Closed Doors, they have gotten assurances from both parties and both chambers that there will be support to move funding for ukraine. And i have launched a ton of flags from the pentagon in recent days, a letter from the undersecretary to congressional leaders, warning that funding has nearly been completely exhausted. And warning that disruptions in and fighting on the battlefield are very real and could happen in the coming days yeah, and errol louis, i know you are in new york. You just had the Un General Assembly rolled through town just a few short while ago, and there was all of this talk of standing by the ukrainians, not just by the United States, but for countries around the world. And for Zelenskyy To Go to new york, make these appeal to the Un General Assembly, go to washington, make these appeals Up On Capitol Hill, and at the white house i mean, this is, potentially a precarious moment in all of this. Because, as manu raju was saying earlier on in this program, there is no guarantee right now from the House Speaker that this aid to ukraine is going to get a chance on the house of representatives, on the floor of the house of representatives. Thats exactly right, jim. And its very troubling. There is a real sense of history whenever the United Nations comes to town, and its just a reminder that, in the past, when we did not take measures early on, we werent united with our allies, the results were catastrophic. And that trying to save a couple of dollars or a little bit of trouble on the front and can lead to huge disastrous problems on the back and. So, in the late 1990s, when Osama Bin Laden declares war on the United States, and which pretty much ignored, and have enough is done to sort of track him down, and then five years later, you have 9 11. And involvement in afghanistan that lasted 20 years and costed 2. 3 trillion dollars, Hundreds Of Thousands of lives lost, 2400 american serviceman, thousands of contractors, on and on and on. Catastrophic results, when a little bit of attention and a little bit of money on the front and could have prevented it. And this is the message and the lesson of history that i hope some members of congress may maybe who dont understand this are going to hear, that Six Billion Dollars is cheap for what it could prevent. If you want an ongoing confrontation with russia as it tries to take over one country after another and that is the lesson of history there is no reason to think that it would not continue. We have to do something to stop it. That is the message of the ukraine funding. That was the message at the United Nations. That is what we are hearing from the white house. That is what is being debated in the senate. And sooner or later, we are going to have to really focus on that. We, in the media, have to, of course, remind our audiences what is at stake, that what happens in the next 45 days is going to be allowed a lot more than just whether Kevin Mccarthy gets keeps job. Absolutely. When hoovers, and everything you just said. Errol louis. At this point, its difficult to imagine how the the president go in front of the cameras, to the American People, to the world, to explain mistakes when it comes to funding the ukrainians in this battle against the russians. No question about. It russia rolls into a nato country, this becomes a much more expensive proposition. Errol and kayla tausche, thank, you we appreciate it. Keep an eye on the senate floor, see how this voters shaping up, to keep the government running. We will be right back. 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Right now, it seems lawmakers will be able to avoid a Government Shutdown, with voting underway in the United States senate right now. As usual, it is coming right down to the wire. But this piece of legislation that made its way out of the house earlier today, and now sits in the senate aide involves funding the government for another 45 days. So, we will be back in this same spot, it seems, perhaps 45 days manu raju is still with us. Also joining us is catherine rampell, cnns political commentator and an Opinion Columnist for the washington post. Catherine rampell the, there we go again. I was having this conversation with david gergen earlier this evening who worked for several president s on both sides of the aisle. And i just wonder, how much more this process can take, they cycle of brinkmanship that we are in right now. And as manu was saying and others have said today, we really very well could be in the same place 45 days from now, and in a Possession Position where Military Members are worried about getting their paychecks. I think we will be in this position 45 days from now. And, to your question, how i feel like we keep on waiting for the fever to break, and then it doesnt break. Instead it just keeps on going. And rather than dysfunction being an unfortunate side effect of parties having ideological differences or whatnot, it seems like it is the goal at this point. And thats whats really troubling, that when you have one major party in this country with a significant faction that has no interest in governing, and in fact maybe wanted there to be a shutdown of some kind or at least wanted there to be a little bit more turmoil than would necessarily need to be the case, i dont know how you get back to a functional system. Clearly there are some republicans who would like to govern, who voted, in fact, to keep the government open. But they have plenty of colleagues who i think are more than eager to cause the same kind of drama 45 days from now. And manu, does this all go back to the deal that House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy cut in order to become the speaker, that hes had to sort of operate in a straightjacket, being held hostage by the far right members of his conference, and that he has to sort of give away the store through each and every one of these processes because thats the only way for him at this point . He has to fend them off until the last second, and then when hes at the brink he cuts a deal with the democrats. Is that that the cycle were trapped in . Reporter well see what happens the next go round. That could be a repeat. What has been different in this congress has been the decision by those far right members to try to hold the house Floor Hostage, basically the way that legislative process works in the house is you have to approve a rule first. That sets the parameters for floor debate. That happens before you actually can move onto the legislation. What typically happens is the Majority Party votes in lockstep for the rule, the Minority Party votes against it, they have the votes as a Majority Party to move for legislation. What these hardliners have decided in this congress is to vote to take down those rules. That has paralyzed action in mccarthys house. That forced him to cut a deal with these hardliners to seek much deeper Spending Cuts, which is the reason why the house and the senate are in much different places over Spending Levels, and the reason why were on the brink of a Government Shutdown that we barely averted because of the demands that were made by those members on the right. Mccarthy forced to acquiesce to those demands, even though he had cut a deal and funding levels with the white house and with Senate Democrats and republicans, he had to back off of that because those members were using those Hardball Tactics to essentially hold the house Floor Hostage. So jim, the question is going to be if they will continue to do that as the legislative process moves forward, as we get into the next funding fight in 45 days. Catherine, i guess perhaps its not most productive conversation to have to ask what would have been the ramifications had the government shut down, but there were a lot of attempts on the republican side to minimize and downplay what would have happened to these Government Workers saying they would have gotten back pay and so on. This would have caused real economic pain for millions of americans. Yes, not just the Government Workers. Obviously there are a lot of americans who otherwise interact with government services. Maybe they receive food assistance, their kids receive free school lunches, there are these Community Health centers that are funded by annual appropriations that would have been cut off. Some of those kinds of programs that i mentioned, things like food stamps, would have kept going for a little while, but eventually would have run out of the their contingency funding. Its bad enough that, yes, there are lots of Government Workers including troops based abroad who would have gone without paychecks. But beyond that, there are these knockon effects throughout the rest of the economy that again there is a significant contingent of the Republican Party that either was looking for or more likely indifferent to i guess at this point. Im very glad we averted those kinds of consequences, particularly since weve come very close so far, knock on wood, to achieving that coveted soft landing and, you know, skating away from this inflationary period without a recessions which is historically unusual, but weve had a number of other shocks to the economy. So this would have certainly been an unwelcome development. And again, i hope 45 days from now were not in the same situation, but we may well be. Yeah. And 45 days from now, i dont want to do this again to manu raju who has put in a very long but dedicated and excellent day of reporting for us here at cnn. Catherine, manu, im supposed to end this at 8 55 00 im told. So ive got to toss to a commercial break here. My colleague, dana bash, is going to pick up the coverage in a few seconds from now. Thank you very much for that. In the meantime, you are looking at live pictures of the senate floor right now as senators are on the verge of voting on legislation to keep the government running. Something that should have been done a lot sooner than this hour. In the meantime, thank you so much for joining me this evening. Im jim acosta reporting from washington. Ill see you again tomorrow night starting at 5 00 p. M. Eastern, unless Something Else comes up which means i could come in sooner than that. Hopefully for 5 00 p. M. Eastern. In the meantime, our special coverage with dana bash is next after a break. Stay with us. Well be right back. Good evening, everyone. This is cnn special live coverage on a chaotic night, even b