Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240704

At any moment former President Donald Trump or any one of his 18 codefendants in the Election Subversion case could turn themselves in at a jail in georgia. We are live in atlanta as the deadline for their sur renter is nine days away. The white house announced plans for President Biden to head to hawaii to see first hand devastation of the maui fires and we have the new video at the epicenter of the tragedy with questions growing about how those fires started. Could alec baldwin face charges once again in the Rust Film Set Shooting . Why new Forensic Analysis could change the case. Im john berman with sara sidner and kate bolduan. This is cnn news center. Some time between now and next friday, donald trump and his 18 accused cocon sspirator are supposed to turn themselves in on charges related to the 2020 election. At least, thats how we understand it at this moment, as with every trump case, circumstances can change, but here is how a Fulton County sheriff says he expects all of this to happen. The sheriff says trump is not expected to be booked at the courthouse where the grand jury indicted him on 13 charges, but rather down the road at the jail and you can see that illustrated there how far away it is. That jail is open 24 7. Once inside, defendants are typically fingerprinted and then a mug shot is taken. Will this be the case for donald trump . Cnns Nick Valencia is live outside the courthouse all 19 defendants including donald trump could show up any time they wanted to to be booked. This is open 24 7. What are you hearing about potential timing here . The Fulton County sheriff, sara, telling us that there will be no preferential treatment when it comes to these defendants, former president or not. What that means is all 19 of them will be processed through the infamous Fulton County jail where multiple people have died. Those investigations still ongoing into the deaths including the death of a man who was allegedly eaten alive by bedbugs earlier this year. The situation there in the facility is deteriorating and the former president along with 18 defendants will have to make their way through the Fulton County jail. Meanwhile, were getting a glimpse at the potential Defense Strategy for the former president , his former Chief Of Staff mark meadows filing a petition to get this moved from State Court To Federal court. He and his lawyers are arguing that because of these allegations, these claims and criminal charges against him were committed while he was working as a federal official that the criminal proceeding should be heard in a federal court rather than a state court and heres what they saying in part with that filing. Nothing mr. Meadows has alleged to have done is criminal, per se, contact state officials, and visiting a state Department Building and setting up a phone call for the president. One would expect a Chief Of Staff to the president of the United States to do these sorts of things. Mark meadows has been charged with a Racketeering Charge and he will file a longer petition and hes trying to get this moved from State Court To Federal court. Its interesting. There will be questions as to whether he sets up and potentially others. Nick valencia, thank you for your reporting at the courthouse outside of atlanta. Former republican congressman from illinois, adam kinzinger. You were on the January 6th Committee at the house. One of the arguments donald trump and his cohorts are making is that the timing in georgia and the federal case is suspicious. Why has it taken so long, they say to bring these charges . You talked about almost all of the things that are in these indictments as part of the January 6th Committee about a year and a half ago in some cases. So how frustrating is it for you that its taken so long . Well, it is frustrating. Im frustrated at the time it took the doj took to do this stuff an. After our committee had done its work, thats when it seemed like doj had stepped up. Its not jack smiths issue, but whoever makes those calls, so yeah, look, it takes a long time. What we were able to do on the committee was get a lot information and put the story out in front of the american people, and i think its important for history and its important for all those reasons to have the story in front of people, but there were threads that we couldnt finish because there were a lot of people that wouldnt come in to speak to us and that resulted in some fights in court and trying to get them charged with ignoring congress, and so for these, whether its fani willis, whether its jack smith, to be able to pursue some of those questions and some of those lines of questions, i dont know how long that would take, but im glad theyll be able to do that. Yeah, im frustrated by the length of the investigation, but the ultimate thing is to get to the truth. So the other republicans run against donald trump for the nomination right now. You say they have two choices. What are those choices . Yeah. You have two choices. Either, like, run against the former president who is the frontrunner and take him on on issues like that you disagree with him, but particularly issues where hes corrupt. Issues where hes corrupt. Hes out on bail, soon to be four times. Like, out on bail. Think about that. There is nobody running for president that truly, if you put them on the truth serum say that donald trump is anything but corrupt, but they are scared to death of him. Choice one, either take him on, or choice two, just endorse him and get out of the race. Listen, free political advice. If your goal is to be Vice President or you just want a cushy cabinet position and you want to get your time in government and you get your time in cabinet and people call you mr. Cabinet member for the rest of your life, just endorse donald trump now. Quit acting like youre running for president when youre afraid to take on the frontrunner. Thats the free advice from me. Chris christie on twitter or anywhere else will call donald trump a coward. What does he get from that . Donald trump is a coward, and i think what Chris Christie gets is it the Winning Strategy . Who knows . There is a point in the next year where something happens and his base kind of admits hes a coward that they kind of know. If you admit it, then you have to admit that for six years you supported a coward. If that would happen to happen hes going to be the guy. Chris christie has the courage to keep speaking out, but for the rest of them, look, i get it because ive been there. If youre the only one speaking out people point at you and people will say, well, youre wrong. Thats why, ive got to tell you, everybody has to speak out. Thats what leadership is about. Leadership is about leading. If everybody would tell people, look, this is corrupt. I guarantee you in a week the base will turn and say yeah, donald trump is a corrupt man, but when their leaders are telling them that this is just the doj and this is the Biden Administration going after trump. Leaders they trust are telling them that, so its not really surprising that they believe it. I can conceive or imagine a 2008 version of adam kinzinger, if not directly endorsing Rudy Giuliani for president at least being supportive of the concept of Rudy Giuliani and the type of politician that he was. How do you explain how he went from that to where he is now, charged in georgia with crimes . You know, im not sure if it was a book i was reading or a podcast that someone was saying, they asked him, dont you care about your legacy . You were americas mayor after 9 11. He was a moderate republican that was talking about unity, and i think he said something about the extent like, who cares about legacy . What matters is the here and now. Thats the best way to describe it. If i didnt care, frankly, about, like, what the Kinzinger Legacy would be or what my son would see some day it would be much easier for me just to pretend that everything donald trump was doing was great and then go on the tv circuit defending him. Thats the easiest thing to do. I care about my legacy, and i think he just doesnt. I dont know how a man who had done such great things to one point, took down the organized mob in a way threw it all out of the window. Hes responsible for his behavior and i feel sympathy for him and its sad we could have statues of him everywhere. I dont understand it. Adam kinzinger, great to see you. Thank you very much. Kate . Thats an interesting perspective. Lets talk about Rudy Giuliani, being charged in georgia isnt the only trouble. Cnn learned even before this indict, giuliani is staring Down Hundreds Of Thousands of dollars in legal bills and more related to his work with donald trump after 2020 election. Still, giuliani isnt shying away from attacking the d. A. In georgia who he will soon see in court. Shes a politician and not a lawyer. Not an honest, honorable lawyer. This is a ridiculous allegation and a racketeering statute. Theres probably no one that knows it better than i do. This is not meant for election disputes. This is ridiculous what shes doing. Also, i dont know if she realizes because she seems like a pretty incompetent, sloppy prosecutor. Lets get over to katelyn polantz. Tell us about what you uncovered about the current state of Rudy Giulianis financial situation is . Kate, Rudy Giuliani doesnt even have the money to respond to some of the demands that are being made upon him as these lawsuits related to the 2020 election move forward. So we saw some Court Filings this week. Theres even a hearing happening right now in new york in the Defamation Case that the Voting Machine Company had filed against giuliani for making false statements about them and the 2020 election, and in that case, he has all of his electronic records held by an archiving company, a data holder called trust point and that Company Needs to have him pay for searches so that he can turn over these lawsuits and not just the smartmatich lawsuits and he doesnt have 15,000 or somewhere between 15,000 and 23,000 to pay them to run the search he needed to run. He also doesnt have the money to keep his electronic records hosted by the company. They charge about 20,000 a month, every month to keep his records active and alive so that he can use them in these lawsuits to defend himself. On top of that, he has other bills and he had a court order recently where he had to pay Cell Phone Bills that went unpaid in 2020 related to his company. That is not a small amount either, and there is also on top of that, bills that he has to pay for sanctions, for other peoples legal fees where he hasnt responded appropriately in these 2020 election lawsuits. Kate, it is a lot of money that he has to pay now and thats just the start, if he were to lose these lawsuits and also those criminal cases that cost money to defend, as well. Yeah. I mean, 57,000 in phone bills that have gone unpaid . Youre right. That is no small amount and thats just one little element of what hes up against. Great to see you, katelyn. Sara . Joining us now nick akreman, former assistant and special watergate, and former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. I will start to this and then we will also get to giuliani. Why is mark meadows trying to move the case from State Court To Federal court . Well, i think the reason for doing that is trying to get it completely on a Fulton County jury so they would have a broader jury to pick from that would include conservative republicans from rural areas. I think thats the primary reason to do it. The reason mark meadows, i think, is a very strategic decision among the defendants. Of all of the defendants, he probably would, on the surface, seem to have the best chance to do this because he was basically a gopher for donald trump. So the question is going to be when he goes before and files this in federal Court Whether he was acting within the scope of his duties as Donald Trumps main person as his secretary and whatever it is. He was the guy that was supposed to be running that, and i think what the prosecutors will do is theyll come back with very hard evidence showing that mark meadows actually committed crimes and that will do it because the standard here is whether or not he was acting in the scope of his duties as Chief Of Staff for donald trump and certainly one of those duties is not committing crimes. So nick its not within his duties. In fact, this is the same thing that judge hellerstein denied donald trump in the new york case. Nick, i want to ask you about that because there are a host of republicans making the argument that the state court should not be able to try a former president , but trump is a citizen as is mark meadows. Is this a political argument that were seeing play out or is this an actual legal argument that holds water . Oh, no, there is a legal argument. There is a statute that permits Government Officials to remove cases to federal court, but theres a standard to be met and the standard is whether or not the actions that are being complained of were in the course of his normal duties in that official capacity and thats where mark meadows is going to fall short. Its where donald trump fell short before judge hellerstein in new york. We found that paying hush money to a porn star and covering it up by falsifying Business Records was not within the scope of the duties of the president of the United States. I think the same decision, the same decision is going to be precedent here for the federal court to do the exact sammy thing and deny it, but basically, mark meadows is the Stalking Horse for the other defendants in the case. See, if he gets it done then they might follow suit. Nick akerman, thank you very much for that. Ma what happened in the state case in new york, that precedent might be set to keep it from going to the federal court. John . Newly released video shows a Denver Police officer shooting and killing a man who was holding a marker. The officer believe it was a knife. A huge explosion in southern ukraine overnight as russian drones hit a critical port. The death toll on maui is climbing and the families of Wildfire Victims are speaking out. I know how painstaking this is. I know the hurt. I know just the deep void we all feel because losing lahaina and losing Family Members is something so personal. Unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. To help keep me sharp. P. Neuriva think bigger. Okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. Together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. Yaaay woo hoo ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 ams of protein. 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Be sure to get my good side get two pairs of Celebrity Frames for 89. 95 for a limited time at americas best. Book an exam today. So this morning we are getting a new perspective on the devastation in maui. News crews are getting access to the epicenter of the tragedy. Whats left behind in lahaina is truly just hard to believe still. Miles and miles of rubble and ash. Essentially no structure really left untouched by the flames. Rescue crews tasked with finding and identifying the remains of victims are talking now about the weight of the task before them. Sometimes you have to compartmentalize stuff. It doesnt go away, but you just have to work through it. If we dont do our job then the families cant get any closure. 106 sets of remains, i guess we have to call them, have been found so far. Officials say the number will continue to rise. And the painful task of finding the remains isnt the only challenge. The delicate job of identifying the dead when there isnt much left behind in some cases is also becoming a herculean task. Investigators asking Family Members to provide dna samples to help. As of this morning, only five sets of remains have been identified. The governor is warning this process could take weeks, if not longer. A heartwrenching wait now for so many people. Ive run into a lot of people that are tired. Im tired, too. I havent slept in six days, and like i said, i just want to identify his body and put him at rest. Also just learned this morning that President Biden and the first lady will be flying to m maui on monday, rather. The president said he wanted to hold off on visiting to prevent interfering. Where do woo stand with the Recovery Process of the dead and identifying the remains of the victims there . Kate, i can tell you that the thought of this process taking months for Family Members and people from across the United States who are on the ground trying to give a family that they met in the beginning of their day a sense of closure. It is casting such a pall over this island known for blooming with life and it is not something i ever expected to see in all my days in maui. It is leading to did i spi dispirited families. In identifying human remain, there are 101 sets of Human Remains that have been found and not identified. In that group there are only 13, only 13 of them that have Dna Sequences that are complete enough, are assembled to be potentially matched when a Family Member does a cheek swab or gives a skin sample. To that point there are more scientists who are joining this effort and there is a calling of ours, a journalist who works in one of the local stations in honolulu, and he lost not one, but four Family Members and is submitting dna, his family is, to find a cousin who is still missing. Watch. I have a cousin who is missing right now and i heard you say that the painstaking task of identifying is now the focus. Another cousin did provide a dna sample just so that when this is the inevitable conclusion to whats going on to identify this other cousin that lost that we still have not heard from. In terms of the search for human remain, the governor hopes that most of the burn area will be searched and it will be nearly completed, up to 90 by the end of this weekend, kate. Michael valerio, thank you for being there for us. John, four members of his family missing. Its a small community. You get the sense of how tightknit it is. Now getting cameras just getting in, now getting the perspective. This was a driveway, this was a driveway, this was a driveway. So much to note. Parts of maui are still burning. Cnns bill weir takes a closer look. This is the kula neighborhood in maui. We are several miles from the destruction in lahaina and this is still an active fire zone, only 60 of the country fire has been contained and we can actually see at least two hot spots around here which explains the yellow helicopter. That is the maui fire department. Hes taking bucket loads of water of a nearby Swimming Pool of a home that was completely burned down and theyre refilling it with a fire hydrant and it is so stretched here that its do it yourself, diy fire protection, that explains this setup. This homeowner is gone and she fired up their improvised Fire Prevention system and theyre spraying it as far as they can down into the ravine here with the fear that some of these hot spots might whip up, there are a couple of storms brewing in the pacific, nothing near to Hurricane Or Storm Dora that created all of the Firestorm Winds and anything that would kick this up is one more horrible thing to worry about here. Meanwhile, in lahaina, only a third of that area has been searched with cadaver dogs. About a dozen souls have been identified and families are giving dna samples because they have loved ones who are missing. So its agony, knowing maybe the worst thats happened and hoping theyll get a better result. Here again comes another drop and in addition to the fire department, sprinklers. We actually met a couple of guys and volunteers who are putting hot spots with bottled water, bushwhacking through the dry brush and one of them slipped a foot into the smoldering ash. People understand here that theres a lot of action and sympathy happening in lahaina, but this is an ongoing story. Well stay on it for you all day here. Im bill weir, cnn in maui. Thank to bill for that. The sprinklers going off right behind him. Truly remarkable. For more information on how to help maui Wildfire Victims go to cnn. Com impact or text hawaii to 707070 to donate. Sara . Ahead, in denver a Police Officer shoots and kills a man she thought had just grabbed a knife. It turned out it was only a marker. How did that happen . We have newly released bodycam video to take a look at ahead. Was daring to dream. Cadillacs renaissance, is daring to go all electric. So. Whats your renaissance . Money stresses me out. So, i got this experian app, and now, im checking my fico® score. I got a new credit card, and im even finding ways to save. Finally getting smart about monefeels really good. See all you can do with the free eerian app. Download it w. In colorado a 911 call about a domestic dispute ended with a Police Officer shooting and killing a man. It turns out the man was holding a marker and not a knife. The shooting happened this month in denver and police just released the body Camera Footage from the incident. The officers were responding to a 911 call from someone saying a man had pushed his wife who was in a wheelchair on to the ground. The man was going after his teenage son and yelling could be heard. When officers arrived, you can see a woman sitting on the street against the curb with an empty wheelchair nearby. Shes asked she asks for an ambu ambulance and that is when things unraveled. Well play this, but a warning first, you may find this video disturbing. Dont dont pull your gun out on my husband okay. Do you need ems . I just need i just need an ambulance. Let me see your hands stop stop lets go [ bleep ] lets go [ bleep ]. Stop [ bleep ]. Hey, brandon, look at me, hey, brandon, look at me, brandon move stop dont dont police say several independent witnesses said that they believe that the man was armed with a weapon when he approached the officer. Joining me now is chief Intelligence Analyst john miller. I flinch when i see that that child is standing as the scene is playing out. What do you see . Walk me through what you see here. I see a few things and i watched this Video A Number of times and first you see the Police Arrive and you see the woman and the wheelchair. What are the first words she says . Dont pull a gun out on my husband. Shes giving an indicator that she is overwrought. Where is he at the moment . He is at the car with the door open and getting something out of the car. The police are going on alert, he sees the police are here and hes getting something out of the car and what is that . The first officer said show me your hands . He goes behind his back and is shifting it from hand to hand and cups it in one hand, and the officer says show me your hands and the first officer is holding a taser and its a nonLethal Weapon and bright yellow. He runs to the officer who is holding the gun which is the Lethal Weapon and the last frame that we saw in the video, notice hes got his hands cupped together extended forward as if he has a weapon and hes charging at her when she fires. Remember in the background, what do we see . We see a little boy and a woman with a laundry cart moving very slowly, so thats another issue. So its an incident that happened very fast. Nobody involved in that incident, particularly these two officers got it play it back in slow motion while it was happening. Theyre making instant decisions. Someone i know pretty well characterized this right out of the gate that this is a terrible tragedy. This is a 36yearold man, brandon cole, who has no Criminal Record and he was he was killeded there. You mentioned the chief, i want to play a couple of things that we heard from Denver Police and the chief is the second sound bite. Listen to this. When he was within several feet of the officer, the officer feared she would be stabbed and potentially overtaken by the suspect. When she deploys the duty weapon that her view of the young child and the other person are not even clear to her. You see what were seeing play out, and what youve seen in the video. You see that this could be signs of an instance that this may be an instance of suicide by cop. What signs do you look for in this . When youre looking at that, you start to examine basically the Offender Characteristics which is what is that person doing . When that person pulls a magic marker out of a car and then cups it like a knife and rapidly charges at an officer who is clearly holding a gun. You have to ask yourself, what is that Person Thinking . Since 2000, increasing numbers of studies have identified this phenomenon of people doing what they call suicide by cop or policeassist the suicide where they create a situation where they know the training and the procedures are likely to involve them getting shot by police. Most of these incidents, the person has a weapon, but in somewhere between 20 and 36 of these incidents its a fake weapon. Its a simulated weapon and something that they claim is a weapon and police have been grappling with this for a while which is how do you identify that in progress . Absolutely. I mean, we know that the Denver Police here are continuing their investigation. Colorado bureau of investigation. The d. A. And the d. A. Is looking and reviewing this, as well. Well see what more comes of this. Devastating video to see, nonetheless. Its good to have you here. Thanks. John . 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I miss you, but i come bearing data. I love that you brought data. What does this tell us . I think what you should take away from the first slide is georgia has been moving rapidly with the democrats over the last cycles and this is a swing for the democrats from 2004 to 2020. Look at the shift in georgia toward democrats, 17 points. Look what it is nation wide, just seven points. Georgia has been moving to the left rapidly compared to the nation as a whole over the last few election cycles. Thats really stark when you look at georgia versus nationwide. Lets talk about what happened in 2022 in the midterms there and what it tells us about how voters feel about donald trump. Sure. This is trumpendorsed candidates in 2022 gop candidates for congress and governor. Look at what we see in the state of georgia. Those candidates won 67 of the time and thats obviously still more than 50 and thats significantly less than what we saw nationwide and 95 where trump endorsed candidates every single time and in georgia that was not the case and remember in the gubernatorial race, trump did not endorse brian kemp. There were two houses that trump endorsed where the republican candidates did not win and it was a sure thing that trump endorsed and in georgia, there is an antitrump sentiment within the Republican Party itself. He is still attacking brian kemp and brian kemp is responding to how elections were handled there. What is the next thing that gives you some insight into donald trump and voters. Those who are college graduates. Yeah, so, you know, if you want to look within the trump skeptical voters within the Republican Party. Trump has committed a serious federal crime. Look at this, 27 of those republicans who have a College Degree believe that he committed serious federal crimes versus just 12 among those who dont have a College Degree. Why is this so important that those with a College Degree are more likely to be against trump when it comes to this issue . Becau because i want you to take issue and its the closest one that biden won, okay . Look where georgia is in the six closest states. Its right near the top at 35 . Only arizona has more republican voters. Trump voters in 2020 who had a College Degree, far more in georgia and wisconsin, 25 . So if were looking for more movement away from donald trump in the 2024 election and georgia might be a place to start with arizona because those are the voters that trump committed a serious federal crime. Those two states are some of the most hardfought states and some mentioned in some of these indictments that trump is trying to everturn illegally. Harry enten, do not go so long without seeing us. Kate . A newly released firearms, is raising questions on the set of rust and whether the actor could be charged yet again. Well be back. Camera Shutters Camera Shutters so this morning were learning that alec baldwin could face new charges once again in the shooting death that happened on the set of his film rust. A new forensic report found that the trigger on the gun used in the deadly shooting, the report says that trigger had to have been pulled. Baldwin had initially been charged, but those charges were dropped. Cnns Josh Campbell covering for this. Josh, explain whats going on here. John, if Prots Cure Thes hold to what they said earlier this summer the potential for charges to be reinstated against alec baldwin just increased significantly. Just to remind our viewers. He was originally charged with Involuntary Manslaughter in the death of cinematographer halyna hutchins. That was dropped. Thats because investigators discovered that the gun that was used in that shooting had been modified. Now i will read you part of what the prosecutors said in a filing in june. This is so important. They wrote that the charges against alec baldwin were dismissed without prejudice because of possible malfunction of the gun. If it was found that the gun did not malfunction charges against mr. Baldwin will proceed. The fbi looked at that and they said it would not have gone off if someone hadnt pulled the trigger. It was sent to an independent examiner who came to the same conclusion of the fbi. Ill read you part of the new report we just got our hands on. Although alec baldwin repeatedly denies pulling the trigger, gi given the tests and findings found here, the fully cocked or retracted hammer of the evidence revolver. On the one hand we have prosecutors saying look, if this report determines that the gun did malfunction we will charge alec baldwin and we are learning that the report says just that. There is another legal aspect and yes, baldwin has always denied that he pulled the trigger and dropping the charges initially and the other side is that baldwin said he was told the gun was not loaded. Does this factor into that at all . Absolutely. Who is actually responsible for gun safety . In general, anyone who points a weapon has to ensure that that is a cleared gun, but were talking about an actor who is dealing with dummy rounds and the people on the set were responsible for safety and the armorer is facing charges of her own and baldwin has declared his innocence and take a look at what baldwin told our chloe melas last year. I never said ever, that the gun went off automatically. I pulled the hammer back and pulled it back as far as i could and i clicked the thing. It was worth pointing out that baldwin does have a Strong Defense in one area, and that comes down to the weapon itself. When the fbi tested that weapon the gun ultimately malfunctioned. It broke. So all of us hear that if this goes to trial the words of baldwins attorneys telling the jury, sure when the new test and the shiny new parts were put in the gun it functioned fine and go back to the state of the weapon, it broke and that will cast questions on the struck ral integrity of the weapon which could be key to baldwins defense. It could be a factor, this new analysis and well see if prosecutors want to hang their case it. Great explanation. Sara . Donald trump and his 18 codefendants have nine days now to surrender at a jail in georgia. What the sheriff is saying how he will be treated and what we can expect. Thats ahead. Its too expensive. Use priceline, theyve got deals no one else has. What about work . I got you. 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