Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240704

Fascinating interview. Weve all been leaning into see what bill barr had to say. A lot of us, waiting to figure out what he would think about all this. Im laura coates. Everyone. And thank you all for joining me right here in washington, d. C. Its the capitol on high alert tonight. Why . Because the nation is bracing for the arrest and arraignment of a former president. Shall i say, again . The third time in, what, three months . He will appear in court tomorrow, as expected. In now his third indictment on charges of trying to overturn an election. And weve learned at cnn that the Secret Service is already done a walk through of the courthouse and Law Enforcement is now monitoring even potential threats. Meantime, everyone, we are getting an early look at what his potential Defense Strategy might be. Including whats called, this is not my term, but the delusion defense, that he actually believed his own lies. Plus, suggestions that hes about to throw his legal advisors under the bus. I cant imagine that happening. And just moments ago, trumps former Attorney General, bill barr, spoke to cnn with his very first reaction to this new indictment. At first, i was not sure, but ive come to believe that he knew well that he had lost the election and now, what i think is important is the government has assumed the burden of proving that. The government, in their indictment, takes the position that he had actual knowledge that he had lost the election and the election was not stolen through fraud. And they are going to have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Which is a high bar, of course. Thats a high bar which leads me to believe that they were only seeing a tip of the iceberg on this. You think jack smith has more . Oh yes, i would believe he has a lot more. Well, in the case of this magnitude, one would assume he would. He also poured cold water on the First Amendment defense that some trump allies have already been floating, including, i might add, trumps own lawyer. As the indictment says, you know, theyre not attacking his First Amendment right. He can say whatever he wants. He can even lie. He can even tell people that the election was stolen when he knew better. But that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. All conspiracies involve speech and all fraud involves speech. So, you know, free speech doesnt give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. I mean, just because you have said something does not mean that you are totally immunized and inoculated from ever being held liable for it. We will talk about the specifics of those comments in just a few moments, but ive got an Amazing Group of legal experts standing by to dissect and walk through all of this. But first, i want to begin with cnns chief Legal Affairs correspondent, paula reid. Paula, look, bill barr said up todays development. So, i want to know, what we now know tonight about what the plan is for trump to build a defense . We are starting to see the broad contours of a Legal Defense here and they are really trying to hit on this idea of infringing on his freedom of speech, and saying that, here the, government has allegedly criminalize political speech. What that fails to take into consideration is the fact that the indictment outlines exactly how this went so much further than just words and laying out the specific series of alleged actions that the former president took. Now, in the alternative, theyre also arguing this good, faithfully by the former president really believed that the election had been stolen. But prosecutors were one step ahead of him, laying out, in the indictment, multiple instances where he either admitted that he did lose or that he had officials telling him that, in fact, there was no basis for these claims. Paula, stick around. We need your insight tonight and right now, also, i am joined by david aaron, a former federal prosecutor with the Doj National Security division. Weve got sophia nelson, cnn contributor. Pain contributor. And also former House Republican Investigative Committee counsel, beta johnsons also here in Associate Professor of law at George Howell university. And on kuch could or, is a former federal prosecutor as well. In other words, weve got his panel and im glad that youre all here because the number one question i keep getting, including at the Grocery Store today, was, whats up with his whole free Speech Discussion . The political speech notion. Is it true that as long as trump was saying something about his views on the election that hes protected . What do you think . Well, yes and no. The Attorney General, the former Attorney General said it best. You can have free speech, you can say what do you think. You can even lie. But you cant engage in a conspiracy to commit fraud and do other things that are crimes. That is the line that jack smith is going to have to walk. I mean, the network, and thats a great point because you know, first of all, we already have laws that say if you say certain things, youre going to be liable. I mean, if i were didnt to try to hide or hire a hit person with my actual words, because i said it, im not protected, right . Defamation also a part of it. I mean, there are threats, a great example of it. Why is this having legs . Is it because people believe, what . Its so nuanced, its political, can he criticize people . I assume its people who have not read through the indictment and see all the actions that are being alleged, that the former President Trump actually took to bring about his plan to overturn the Election Results. I mean, if you look through what is being alleged, there are actual concrete steps like trying to line up the slate of fake electors. So, there are certainly things beyond just words here in this indictment. So, is the fact that the words are part of the action . I mean, its not like youre saying, maybe he was trying to avoid a First Amendment defense, in many respects, right . Lays it out and says, hes got every right, im paraphrasing here, to say these things. But they were likely prepared for the First Amendment, but is the action youre talking about that, look, im putting these words in here to show you this, part of the oral conspiracy, is that right . I think thats right and i think its absolutely right, in the special counsel saw that this might happen because some of the first page is where he lays out what, you know, the fact that donald trump had every right to talk about and even to lie about what he believed we took place with the election. What do you think . Every time sort of significant legal news pops around trump and indictment, or some investigation, there is always a few days where theyre, like, test driving these really bad arguments, right . Then they eventually kind of settle on one or two that maybe will sort of carry them through. We are in sort of the test driving face. I think this is kind of a crazy argument because, like, i used to prosecute financial fraud cases. They are all about speech, right . When someone calls you on your phone, you get a spam call, someones trying to get your icloud credentials or get you to turn over your credit card, the fact that they are speaking to does not somehow make that protected by the First Amendment. It is a crime, right . You are saying, they are, saying its political though. This is obviously a campaign and one of the things that the lawyer said yesterday was, hold on. This was kind of a forward thinking, what aboutism, which i love that sort of creativity after a long day of news. It was the idea of, what if one day joe biden says something that you dont agree with . Is that going to be colonel eyes . This is different. It is. I do think that the political character of the speech is what is giving this theory the legs that it has. I also think its a theory thats probably toward the public men out a judge or at a jury and a lot of the members of the public, as well written and concise as the indictment is, a lot of people are not going to read it. They are just going to hear about it. And the fact that the speech was political in nature, i think, will lead a lot of people to attach that First Amendment idea at least temporarily. Sorry, sofia, political in nature . You have to shrink, im going to whats going on here . No, no. You stopped dead in her tracks right now. All i was going to say was political in nature meaning, its coming for a politicians mouth . Correct and its hard to a political process. Doesnt make it any less fraudulent. Doesnt make it any less dangerous. But because its not made, you know, in the course of financial fraud or i think for the public, we should define what is political speech and why its different from regular speech. Political speech is probably, correct me if im wrong, the most protected or the one that we really look at, want to guard, because you are saying something that has to do with an election or your opinion, or your assessment, or your analysis, or you are saying how you feel about it, right . He did all of that, for sure. But he crossed the line. As the former Attorney General said, and thats what i think the public needs to get. I think we are all telling you, yes, he can say what he wants. But there is a line of criminality that none of us can cross with our words. Im hearing some amen nodding over here. Yeah, i think the key point was the one that you made which is, its not just words. The words were intended to produce actions, right . And i think calling this political speech, i understand that. And there are real First Amendment issues around criminalizing certain types of speech. I dont want to just be flippant about it. But the First Amendment is designed to promote truthful public debate, right . And so, its for that reason that the First Amendment doesnt protect fraud, right . And yes, its political speech. But in this instance, its not just like talking about his position on a bill or something, right . Were talking about speech that was aimed at overturning the election, right . We are talking about the most dangerous form of, quote, unquote, political speech, right . Supporting our democratic process. So, i think like i said, i mean, there are throwing things against the wall. In my estimation, we will see what sticks. Im surprised that a panel full of lawyers, not one of us that the word allegedly. So i will say the word allegedly to give all the things that we just said. But let me just play for you, for a second, what bill barr had to say, in terms of how he felt about jack smiths integrity. Listen to this. Hes an aggressive prosecutor. Hes the kind of prosecutor, in my view, that if he thinks someone is committed a crime, he, you know, hones in on it and really goes to try to make that case. There is no question he is aggressive. But i do not think that he is a partisan actor. He, personally. You think hes treated trump fairly here . I dont know whether hes treated trump fairly. From what youve observed, i guess. Yeah, from what ive observed. I dont know him, but i know a lot of republican lawyers who have worked with him over the years, and they tell me hes a tough, hard nosed prosecutor, but that hes not a partisan prosecutor. I mean, that seems to belie some of what were going to be hearing about this language of the weaponization of the government and that, i think the word was deranged, that trump used on truth social. One of the night awards. It was one of the nice words, right . Which, is saying something. But i mean, this idea, the partisanship of a prosecutor. Its always causing the question, whether they have some sort of ax to grind. We hear about it all the time. But is there any evidence to support this Talking Point . Doesnt mean there wont be legs, but other evidence to support this for you . Absolutely not. Jack smith comes in from the g career job at justice. Hes a classic product of those institutions playing it down the middle, going very aggressively when he believes that someone is guilty and that he has the evidence to prove it. Staying within the ethical lines, for sure. I just dont think theres any evidence of that at all and i was going to say the same to there is also another clip he talks about where he was asked about whos paying it, right . The old, where is this money coming from . Whos paying for the legal fees . Listen to what he had to say. I find that sort of nauseating, this guy claims to be a multibillionaire and, you know, he goes out and raises money from hardworking people, small donors, and tells them this is to defend america and to, you know, take care of the election. He didnt provide any significant support during the 2022 elections. And a lot of this money seems to be going to his legal fees. Well, hes nauseated. I want to ask you, david, because youve been and also received public defenders. We were talking about people who, as much as discussions that are happening in politics right now about this haves and havenots, a tale of two justice systems, which i think is true. The haves and havenots are in stark contrast, in terms of what theyre able to access for justice. But that conversation doesnt really contemplate Something Like this. Well, i think that is what is interesting about this case, is that it took so long to even be brought. I mean, what everyone saw on january 6th was truly mindblowing and we it really is the most dangerous kind of act for our country to try to undo the Election Results of american voters. And so, the fact that it took two and a half years for there to be charges, i, think is really just the surprising part. So, thats what my answer to some of the questions about, you know, whether this is a political prosecution. But every day in superior court, were both you and i have practiced, we see the poorest people, the people with elise social capital, prosecuted by the department of justice. And so, for the rule of law to mean anything, there has to be people with power and donald trump had the most power of anyone at the time, who get prosecuted when they crossed lines. I mean, otherwise, the rule of law doesnt mean a thing. I mean, he was, at the time, they are alleging so many things, the head of the Executive Branch of government. His job is, of course, to enforce the law. Look at this civics lessons civics lesson happening on wednesday night at 10 00. Everyone standby, we have a lot more to talk about including more about these donations and what bill barr has to say and others. I want to go back quickly to paul reed, though. Paula, trump has set to appear in court tomorrow. What are we expecting to take place tomorrow . Laura, we are expecting a former president to come here, to washington, the sea, to attend this hearing in person. Its unclear if we are actually going to get to see him. There is no cameras in federal court. And this particular courthouse is very accustomed to dealing with vips. Peoples Security Details and you can easily drive into the garage underneath the courthouse and not be seen at all. But once he is inside the courthouse, hes effectively under arrest. He will be processed, we expect they will take his fingerprints. We dont, though, expect that he will have a mugshot. This is an issue they dealt with in manhattan and florida. The consensus is that mug shots are used by Law Enforcement as someone goes on the line, but Everybody Knows what former President Trump looks like. Now, the hearing itself will be pretty quick. Procedural. We expect he will hear the charges that been filed against him, have the opportunity to enter a plea. This hearing also is not going to be before a judge chutkan, shes one who oversees this case in a possible trial. Instead, this will be before a magistrate and will likely have another date on the calendar for his first hearing before the trial judge. In case youre all wondering, yes, paul reed, does in fact, live in this building and reports all the news from here constantly, all the time. Everyone, we are going to go back to the table right now, i want a bit of a round robin because the viewers, i told you, they are asking questions. One of the quick questions theyre asking is, look, can he serve if hes convicted . Yes. Thats a short answer, there you go. The answer is yes, america. Number two, if you were to go behind bars for any of these alleged crimes, could he be elected from prison . Yes. Go back to the eugene debs case in the 19 twenties, right . Socialist, got, what, 1 million, 1 million votes, i mean, thats where we are. Its surprising to people. Just unpack it a little more because it might surpris people to know, as we talk about all the different qualifications that he takes to get hired in most professions, right . The resume building, all things that are going on. When it comes to the presidency, the constitution governs and it didnt contemplate, perhaps, this scenario. Just unpack a little more about why the constitution doesnt actually say, no, he cant run if this happens . Maybe that it wasnt contemplated as a possibility. There is, in the 14th amendment, some provision for disqualification on very narrow grounds related to insurrection. But that is about it. Otherwise hes qualified, hes 14 years and youve got to be a natural born citizen. We were talking about i was born in germany, i wrote to the Secretary Of State when i was in the eighth grade and he said, because your dad was in the military, you are a citizen born abroad. Like john mccain. So yes, i did. When i turned 35, i [laughter] i dont know why you guys are laughing at. That Question Number three. Number three is, if trump was elected, and this is a question that came up early, of course, in his own initial presidency and the first term, could he pardon himself . I dont think anyone really knows the answer to that question because its never happened before. No president has attempted to pardon himself because no president has been charged formally with a crime. But i do think it is possible that we could see President Trump sworn in behind bars and then pardon himself, to walk out of prison. Can i just add one note to that . I totally agree that as a theoretical matter, a legal matter, it is unclear. As a practical matter, whos going to stop him . This is a problem. He would be coming in at the start of this presidency, statute of limitations wouldve run on the offenses while hes in office. His own Justice Department is not going to do it. I dont think anyone else would have standing, even, to raise this issue, potentially. So, i think as a practical matter that will be the bigger problem, even on the sort of abstract. Laura, i also think that his republican rivals would have to take a pledge that if they were, like, lets say nikki haley was the nominee. I think she would have to make a pledge that donald trump would get a pardon. I really believe they would have to take a blood oath on this that if it was somebody else and trump does get, you know, found guilty and go to jail, i think they have to pardon him. We are already hearing that from ramaswamy, we are hearing that from i think desantis alluded to that is well, thats really the litmus test of what he would do next, hala, nixon. Although this is a very different scenario in a very different world we live in today. Everyone, standby. Because next, we take a look at the judge who is presiding over trumps case, including her experience with the january 6th defendants. Plus, we are breaking out the van diagram. Yes, we are, to show you the variety of reactions from his 2024 rivals. And we will speak with one as well. And coming up, an exclusive interview. I talk with a family of travis king, the man you are seeing here, the army soldier who went into north korea. This, as kim jonguns regime sends pretty eerie messages. All other purchases. And with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas a brilliant reality the Ink Business Premier Card from chase for business. Make more of whats yours. 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Season on the federal bench since 2014, when she was nominated by then president barack obama. Shes a former federal public defendant. As you can, she was confirmed 95 to 0 by the senate and she has been overseeing january 6th cases. Dozens of them, so, shes very familiar with the Subject Matter they are going to cover here. So, how has she handled some of those cases . Many judge on the bench right now, especially in d. C. , have had a draw some of these cases. Theyve been assigned cases. None of them as a stranger get to that. What has she been saying . She has been tough. Look, this is a tough judge for anyone charge related to january 6th because statistically, shes issued some of the harshest sentences. Nearly a dozen times, she has gone beyond the sentences recommended by prosecutors. Shes overseen dozens and dozens of these and she has consistently been the toughest judge, when it comes to sentencing. I mean, 31 defendants already. She has sentenced. I mean, theyve exceeded recommendations from the prosecutors nine times. Thats pretty significant. Exactly. She is tough. If you had to pick a judge, if the Defense Attorneys for the former president were looking at the lineup, she probably wouldve been at the end of their list. This is very different than what we saw on the maralago case, where you have a judge that the former president appointed, who is already been bench slapped for being so deferential to the former president. So, this is not an ideal job for them, but it will be up to the jury. You know what . Theyre going to have the same level of scrutiny. I will tell you of course, chutkan, what they are going through. Lets go through the experience of trump specifically with this particular judge. Because she has referenced him or reference at least the idea and about him through the course of her rulings and sentencing. Yeah, he tried to withhold certain documents from his time as president from the january 6th committees. Something that was litigated and she wasnt having it. I mean, this is one of the most famous quotes from that opinion. President s are not kings and the plaintiffs is not president. So, that was one of the really significant rulings as of january Six Committee was trying to obtain evidence. The former president was throwing any privilege he possibly could, trying to see what would stick, and when it came to her, things were not sticking. She ruled against him. It was one of the more significant blows that he suffered during the january Six Committee investigation. Not with jack smith. And of course, she referenced that one point 41 person, she was that person did not go to the capitol. Added that love for the country, he won for one man. Obviously, talking about donald trump. We will see what happens up here, but as you mentioned already, tomorrow is part of the magistrate, not her. We will hear a lot more, especially the motion. Thank you, paula. And heres a question, everyone, for all of you out there. Should voters know the outcome of all, and i, mean all of these cases before, well, the voting begins . We are going to ask one of trumps 2024 rivals next. Plus, Barack Obamas private warning to President Biden about what is coming in his battle for reelection. Retired right . Am i . Ya save up to 500 on the new sleep number® smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add an adjustable base. Shop now only at sleep number®. My cpa told me i wouldnt qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. Their team of independent Tax Attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your Small Business qualifies. [clicking] when occasional heartburn wont let you sleep. [clicking] get fast relief with new tums heartburn sleep support. Love food back and fall asleep faster. Tum, tum tum tum, tums thats why Comcast Business De is launching theal. 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Now, who has adjusted, by the way, that Candidate Pledge to pardon trump. Now, on the other side of this venn diagram, you have the obvious reactions from rivals who, well, they are no fans of donald trump. They have made it known. Chris christie, isa hutchinson, with whom we are going to speak in just a moment, and also will hurd who says that trump is only running for president maybe to run away from jail. And look, you get in the middle this blurry section. Things get a little bit blurry your, shall we say . Nikki haley, she has condemned the first indictment, but now it seems a little bit exasperated by the, quote, distraction that is tough language being used. Now, pence to, who plays a big role in this new indictment, he denounced the first one, but in this one says that anyone who puts themself over the constitution should not be the president of the United States and then seemed to suggest trump, quote, this is his word, crack pot, unquote, lawyers share the blame. Then youve got doug burgum, everyone. He doesnt like to talk about the indictments at all and francis suarez, he jumped into the race after one of trumps indictments and happened in his own city. But he suggests that he pardoned trump to heal the country. Now joining me now is one of trumps president ial rivals, former arkansas governor, isa hutchinson. Thank you for joining us this evening. Im eager to hear your perspective, in particular, as one of the hopefuls for the nomination. One thing thats been suggested, governor, has been that voters ought to be able to know the outcomes of these cases before the voting begins. The calendar might not cooperate with that, but is that the right thing to do, that voters would be able to know whats going to happen . We sure. The more information to the voters, the better. And so, in an ideal world, these cases would be concluded and the voters would have all the information they need. But as a practical matter, the criminal docket is not going to allow that to happen. Voting will take place in iowa and New Hampshire before these cases are concluded. And so, it puts the voters in a terrible situation and thats not good for the more information, the better. We would like to see them to have that. The fact is, candidates who are running for 2024 nomination on the republican side, theyve got to take a stand on this. Either you are for accountability and the rule of law or you are for donald trump and chaos, and i think you cant take the middle ground on that. This case, whenever you look at what happened on january 6th, i think clear, donald trump is morally responsible for that. You have been quite clear but also its clear that people are not necessarily budging. People are not and i cant imagine that anyone had on their strategist bingo card. You may not get an opponent who three indictments and two impeachments, and i cant use any of . It i cant capitalize or seize on any of it . Why do you think there is that hesitation . Im using that term generously here. Why is the outright refusal, in most instances, to try to use this, even as a part of Ones Campaign to talk about the issues that i know youve also want to actually discuss . We well, that is what we do. I just came back from New Hampshire and the voters there are asking me about affordable housing. They are asking me about the challenge of the economy and high interest rates, and so, that is what we are talking about on the campaign trail. Now, the fact is that they are overwhelmed with the information on the trump charges. Its going to be an issue in the campaign. You think about the charges and whether hes found guilty or not guilty is another issue. But here, the special Prosecutor Says that he actually knew he lost the election, so he tried to over turn the election anyway. And the defense says that, well, he actually believed that he won the election. So, if you believe the defense, youve got a candidate who wants to be president who is delusional. And if you believe the Special Prosecutor that he knew that he lost the election and tried to overturn it anyway, then its criminal conduct. And so, its going to be a campaign issue. I want to get on the debate because this issue will come up in the debate. The difference between the candidates and their approach to this, how theyre handling this, and the rule of law will be an issue at that debate that comes up in milwaukee in august. You certainly describe the Consummate Rock in the hard place, or the lesser of two evils. Im not sure which one voters are keen to attach themselves to, but you do want to be on that main stage. In the meantime, im sure youve heard the fox News Executives that had dinner with trump last night and effort to convince him to actually join in on that debate. So far, he is saying hes not going to really give oxygen to the other candidates. Whats your response . Well, whether he is there or not is going to be a very good debate. I will be prepared either way. If hes there, theres a lot to talk about. If hes not there, just think about the debate between the candidates who are there. There are differences in policy. We are going to talk about real issues that people care about in their pocketbook. And so, if you want me to be on that debate stage, a set 2024. Com is how you help me get there. And i think people want a vigorous debate there, whether donald trump is there or not. Lets talk about that road to getting there because there was some interesting warnings that president obama actually privately gave to President Biden. One of the comments he made apparently was not to underestimate trumps political strength. By jumping into the race and so many of the candidates who are hoping to best him, in spite of the polling that we are seeing, and it is still early. Is there an underestimation about his political strength and the scope of the base that supports him still . Did you underestimate him . I dont think i underestimated him, but the hold that he has in the loyalty of the base, and how they have accepted everything that he said. They have followed him to the ends of the earth and it is to their detriment. Whenever you look at the fact that hes misled them, but there is still that loyal bond there and i dont know whats going to break it. I have knowledge that hes at a very high level and youve got other candidates that are in single digits. We will see where this goes, but this is a fight that is for the soul of the republican party, the future of our country, and its a fight worth having. That is why i sense in iowa, New Hampshire, these early states, people are paying attention and they care about this. And they want to look at the alternative candidates, they want to look at the debate and make a good decision. So, it is wide open, it is early, and we cant, this is the most unpredictable political environment ive seen in my lifetime. And so, lets see how it plays out. Lets give the voters a chance and all the facts we hope will be on the table in regard to this case. The pending cases that are against donald trump. By the way, governor, really quick. If, for some reason, you dont find yourself on the debate stage in qualifying in that run, would you consider running as a Third Party Candidate . Well, i want to run as a republican nominee. Thats the only thing that ive been considering. I expect to be on the debate stage and i trust that everybody will help get me there, and thats the only goal that i have right now. To be on that debate stage. Governor asa hutchins in, thank you so much. Thank you. Great to be with you, thank you. Lets get back to the table here and, you know, i ask you guys the same question, in terms of the timing. We already know the calendar, not going to put up another van diagram to suggest. We know the calendar, though. Its not really on the same side everything resolved according to maybe the schedule you would like. Do the voters have a right to know the outcome of these cases . Is that part of what ought to be contemplated absolutely. I mean, i think this goes to the very heart of our democracy, of this republican, and whether or not its the saints itself going forward. I know that might sound like hyperbole, but it is not. Donald trump has been indicted now for the third time. This new indictment goes to the fact that like asa said, either hes delusional and crazy and he believed what everybody else told him wasnt true, including 60 lost lawsuits, et cetera, or worse, hes evil, and hes diabolical and unhinged. Im going to be kind. And he tried to thwart democracy and get his supporters and the Vice President to do things that were unlawful and unconstitutional. So, either way, it is bad. People should know. Well, as a legal matter, they actually do, right . The speedy trial act, which governs how judges are supposed to set trial schedules, includes specifying that its not just the defendants interest in a speedy trial, but the public is interested in a speedy trial to and, you know, about a month ago, over at politico, we actually did a poll coming off the last couple of indictments, and we asked people, should the classified document trial occur before the republican primary, before the general election . Almost two thirds of the respondents said it should occur before the general election. That included nearly half of the republicans. Should it be . I mean, is this one of the cases or, if theres one case in particular that you ought to know the outcome of, there are a lot of cases going on, which one is it . This one, absolutely. It shows how donald trump behaved as president during election, right . There can be anything more important than that. And so, for the American People to have the opportunity to watch the evidence against him, to see his defenses, to evaluate him, potentially, as a witness, i think thats really important. Do you agree . I think so. I mean, this is the nature of the charges are just fundamental to the job description. Everyone, thank you so much. We will talk more about all of this ahead. Michael cohen joins cnn on whether he think coconspirators may flip against trump and up next, my exclusive interview with the entire family of travis king, the u. S. Soldier who mysteriously fled over the line, they say, intern with korea and might very well be currently detained. Why they noticed some strange signs before he walked across the border. The border. And we are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom. Org. Its just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. Subaru. 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Ask your doctor for farxiga for chronic kidney disease. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Farxiga sleepovers just arent what they used to be. A house full of screens . Basically no hiccups . You guys have no idea how good youve got it. How old are you . Like, 80 . Back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. We dont get scared. Oh, really . Mom can see your search history. Thats what i thought. Introducing The Next Generation 10g network. Only from xfinity. Well, the mystery is deepening tonight. What about the u. S. Alter her run across the border into north korea . And just a few momenim going to speak with travis king s entire family in their first interview since his detention. But first, State Department is now confirmed that north korea did reach out to the United Nations command at the Demilitarized Zone in the last 48 hours, but says, it was not a substantive call and they dont see it as progress. Now, you will recall back on july 10th, king was released from the south korean detention facility. He was expected to fly back to the u. S. Just a week later. But after king passed through security, he apparently told his staff that his passport was missing. He was then escorted back outside, as far as we know. Then the next day, he reservations for a Joint Security Area tour. Joining other tourists, it seemed, as they went into the dmz, that separates the north from the south. During that tour, he apparently broke off from the group and ran off across the border into north korea, of all places, and has not been heard from since. United nations command says that conversation with north korea began just a few days ago on july 24th. And that gets us, really, to where we are right now. Tonight, kings family continues to search for answers, any answers, about his welfare, his whereabouts, and they say they just want to see their loved one brought back home safely. Kings uncle, myron gates, along with kings sister, jacqueline gates, join me now in a cnn exclusive interview behind him as well as another relative wife and of course, traviss grandparents. Im so glad to see all of you today. But i have to tell you, we have conversed in the past. There are so many unanswered questions, mira. Its been two weeks already since travis, they say, ran across the border into north korea. I have to know what this has been like for your family to be getting the reports like this and then, i understand, radio silence. It has been very, very devastating to my family and i, and for it to be two weeks, we feel like we should know more right now as of what is going on, is he safe . We dont know nothing. Do you know right now where travis is exactly . Is he alive, is he in the custody of north koreas government, is he somewhere detained, do you know sitting here today where he is . Sitting here today, i dont know where he is. The only thing i know is there is a picture of him on the news from the back side and they are saying that travis king ran across the border. Thats the only thing i know. I dont know nothing else. So, you dont even have confirmation, it sounds, like that that, in fact, was your relative, was travis, your loved one that even crossed over that border . No, i dont. I dont know anything. The only thing i was told was that they are talking to them and they acknowledge that they have him, i guess. But i still dont know. Like, if hes even really over there. I dont know if he is over there, i dont know. Its frustrating. Frustrating, of course. And chiquita, this is your brother and as you heard myron talking about, i wonder, when was the last time you spoke with him . As we talk about a little bit, the timeline that the world seems to understand is that he was supposed to get on a flight to return to the United States, did not go on that flight, ended up than in some sort of a tourist area to try to do a tour, to cross over that border. Have you spoken to him before that . When was the last time . As far as i recently, allegedly, i guess, i heard from him around july 15th. But me, personally, i dont believe thats really him talking to me. On messenger. There are a lot of reasons why. I know my brother. I dont know, it just brings tears to my eyes. Its frustrating. Hes my baby brother, so, yeah. Why dont you think that it was him communicating . I know you said you hadnt spoken to him, but there was some communication, right . There was some messaging of some kind. Because hes not the type, exactly. Every time, like, every time i reach back out to him, like, you know, we are 15 hours apart. So, at night time, its daylight there. So, i worked while i was working third shift and at the time, i was telling him call me. He will be like, i cant talk now, i can talk now. You know, just weird stuff and then sending stuff that is just not him. Like, the rap videos, it was all, like, suicidal Attempt Stuff that i personally feel like leads up to this where im s oldest sister, so how a person feels, hes been we dont know if he ever was, you know, in their custody, to begin with, because in all actuality, we lost contact with him. When he left for something, texas, fort worth, is it fort worth . Fort bliss. Something, texas. It starts with f, sorry. But we lost contact from him when he went to korea. Its like, he had an american phone, allegedly, you know . As much as he really didnt he lost it and that is basically how we cut ties with him, you know . So i was asking my mom, like, we talk to him . Have you heard from him . Holiday, after holiday, after holiday, she would just wait by the phone and hope and pray he would call. But i guess we all get something from his messenger, thats what doesnt add up because he never has social media and the first things first, hes going to do, like, hes always been doing, reach out to our mom and let her hear his voice, you know . Hes not the type just disappear. Where is your mother right now . Actually, i really dont know. I have been calling her, so, i dont know. This must be extremely hard for her and what you said to her before, myron, i know youve communicated with her. This is very devastating for her. Yeah, i want her to show up but, you know, she didnt come. So, i dont know. I know the first time she, you know, got on the news, she barely could put a sentence together because, you know, this is really, really hard on my mom, you know . Thats her baby boy. His room is still in her house. Like, i tell my mom all the time like mom, you have this big house, you know . But she wont downsize her house. That is your baby boy, she always made for him. If we need somewhere to go, we can always go back home. You, me, byron, the family, the american public, we are all asking the questions of why. What does not add up for the answers. Has the government and how. Has a government give you any indication that they know more information . For example, and especially this, myron. We know just as much as you guys know. But that strikes me as odd, myron and that you would know, as the family members, very little about his whereabouts and what happened. I just have to be very direct here, do you have any reason to believe that travis would have intentionally run over the border into north korea to defect in that way . No. No reason to do that at all. Anybody angry with the government, the military. Had he been angry with the government, the military, anything like that . No. No. I dont believe so. Vice president Kamala Harris hes quite, hes to himself, he doesnt even deal with people. Ive been calling the d. C. Office, the congressman, senators, we get no answers. Nobody has, i know that Vice President Kamala Harris was supposed to be in kenosha tomorrow and i understand that you have had contact with some Staff Members of members of congress. But what do you want in the administration, the president , to be doing . Are they doing anything as far as you are presently right now aware to help find your brother, your loved one, your nephew, your grandson, his grandparents are back there, you know if they are doing anything right now to try to bring him home . No. No. We wish they would come to our house to talk to us and let us know something. Or let me go get him because im his big sister. Or let or let me go get him. Im his uncle. I know your family is working with an outside group of some kind. Are they working with anyone besides the u. S. Government to try to get those answers . Is anyone else involved . We are working with a Nonprofit Organization called richardsons, bill richardson. Yeah, he is a negotiator, so, hes going to help our family. I understand youve been contacted as well by the family, otto warren brings family, have theyve been in touch with you to try to help . Yeah, ottos parents have read and given us a lot of advice and we really, really appreciate them. Lets just say if he were listening right now and knowing that you were fighting for him, that you are looking for him, your family loves him so much, he is important, he matters to you, to his family in particular. And of course, as a member of our armed services, the entire nation is watching to understand what has happened here. What would you like to say to him if you are listening . I love you, bro, the same thing ive been saying on the messages. I know that wasnt you, the, but if it was you, i love you. I just want you to be home, you know . I really do want you to be home the same way you left, i want you to come back. If not even healthier. But all these allegations and stuff, i dont believe them myron . Im his big sister, so i always knew. I just cant believe it, for real. I will say the nephew, we love you, we stand with you, we are strong and we are going to continue to fight for you, and we aint going to stop until you come home. Byron a lot of questions are left unanswered. This seems like the beginning of the story and i hope that you get the respect and the answers soon. Thank you so much for joining us. We will keep asking questions. Of course, thank you. Im laura coates, everyone. That was difficult to hear. Thank you for watching tonight. Everyone, up next, Michael Cohen is going to join Alison Camerota on this new indictment. And Donald Trumps coconspirators. Plus, Geraldo Rivera also joins live on the fox News Executives meeting with trump after his indictment. Dont miss it. 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And may cause existing parasitic Skin Infections or preexisting cancers to worsen. New neoplasias have been observed. Im glad we speak the same language. Ask your vet for apoquel. I wanna hold you forever hey little bear bear. Im gonna love you forever cmon, bear. You dont. You dont have to worry. Be by your side. Ill be there. With my arms wrapped around. He snores like an angry rhino. Youve never heard an angry rhino. Baby i hear one every night. Every night. Okay. Ill work on that. Save up to 500 on the new sleep number® smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add an adjustable base. Shop now only at sleep number®. Good evening everyone, im Alison Camerota, welcome to cnn. Tonight donald trump is expected to appear in person and a washington d. C. Couroom tomorrow. Hes facing for federal criminal charges, including Conspiracy To Defraud the United States. All in connection to his efforts to undo his election loss. The Secret Service says, security will be at the highest levels. In a moment, i will ask a former trump fixer Michael Cohen about the defense that trump appears to be using, at what he thinks what happens next to those six coconspirators. Plus, our 45page indictment tonight to break down every one of our election lies laid out in it. And former Attorney General bill barr tells us that trump knew he lost the electio