From new york. Today on the program, the knesset votes to take away a key power of the Supreme Court. And as Benjamin Netanyahu urges calm, the nations Political Center and left erupt in anger. Ill talk to the New York Times tom friedman and with Emily Bazelon about the legal issues. Then, the secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas on the good news and the bad news from americas Southern Border. Finally, did President Putin or gain power after prigozhins failed mutiny . Ill ask russian journalist in exile mikhail zygar. But first, here is my take. The Mystery Disappearance of chinas Foreign Minister is a timely reminder that the future of u. S. China relations about be determined not just by american policy, and what is happening domestically in the United States, such as the president ial election campaign, it will also be shaped by developments in china. Which at this point are opaque but troubling. From what outsiders could tell, china is reverting to a mild era style of politics that we have not seen for decades. More significant than the mysterious removal from power after being attributed to health reasons, is the Doctoring Of Press Releases to expunge his participation and achievements from the past. Who controls the past controls the future george alway wrote in his novel 1984 and that seems to be the guide to chinas elite politics these days. This is a far cry from the government that show ping reformed in the 1980s. In those days it seems a contradiction in terms, a dictatorship with age limits for higher offices. Where else did one see limitation of authoritarian rule. Today there are no limits to the power of chinas ruler. What the scholar Elizabeth Economy has called chinas third revolution, the first personified by mou and the second by dung and now by xi is going strong. And that is not just about domestic politics. Xi has put the Chinese Communist party back at the center of society and sought to present a stronger and assertive china to the world. And those decisions have had Ripple Effects across the globe, especially in asia where chinas neighbors have been rattled about xis more aggressive posture and policies. The u. S. Has not handled relations with china perfectly. Biden administration was confrontational and publicly Abraising Beijing at the first meeting of senior officials. The u. S. Has maintained Donald Trumps tariffs on china despite the fact theyve been expensive failures. It is American Consumers who pay for the tariffs, not the chinese. Trump provides tens of billion dollars of subsidies to farmers to make up for the losses they suffered because of these policies. And for a while it seems that american policies toward beijing had no effort to maintain a Working Relationship with china despite the status as the worlds second largest economy, a Nuclear Weapons power with a u. N. Veto. But biden had as corrected course. Several of his senior officials including the secretaries of state and commerce and treasury have tried to stop the decline of relations between the two countries. Antony blinken that World Leaders have been telling him that they expected the u. S. And china to build a decent Working Relationship. The administration is taking seriously the idea it will restrict only a limited number of high end technologies from being shared with china using the metaphor of a small yard with a high fence. Even some american policies that would provoke chinese opposition such as looming new regulations around u. S. Investment into china are now being signals to the chinese in advance by janet yellen. There are still areas where the u. S. Could make a more serious effort. If the Biden Administration wants to have productive military to military dialogue, maintaining trump era sanctions on chinas Defense Mennister would see an odd way to signal that desire. Far better to way the sanctions so the two sides to talk and avoid misunderstandings on issues like taiwan. But the ball is really in chinas court. Chinese policy has been marked been an assertiveness that has broken sharply with the past three decades. Xi has staked out expansive claims for china in the south china sea. Increased Military Activity around taiwan. Clashed with india in the himalayas and pledged support for moscow and he has ramped up criticism of the United States. None of these policies seem to be working. Countries around china have become far more active in countering beijings influence and searching for assistance elsewhere, especially from america. From japan to the philippines to india, nations are pushing back. Will beijing recognize this and change . Is an increasingly ouautocratic capable of learning and adapting or for ching gans mysterious removal does not have an answer. Lets get started. Israel finds itself embroiled in deep political crisis daysar its parliament pasted the first major step in netanyahus judicial overhaul. This part of the legislation eliminated the Israeli Supreme Court power to block Government Actions into the court deems unreasonable. The controversial move drove crowds of israelis back on to the streets and in protest. The white house weighed in as well saying that the move was unfortunate. To understand the complexities of israel and The Middle East, who better to ask than the New York Times columnist tom friedman who won his first two Pulitzer Prizes reporting from that region. Welcome, tom. Explain to us, first, what is this about because it feels like a small step but it is part of a series of moves planned to curtail the Supreme Courts power. And why are they trying to do that . Why is this narrow majority trying to it do that . You have to start with netanyahus political situation. He tried to make a political comeback. And he was so unpopular within his own party he had to reach ore the fence of israeli politics and bring into israeli politics people who have never been there before. Tem ear prado, equated them to the american ku klux klan. If a president brought them into the cabinet. Now the only way he could hold these people together in a coalition, with the you will raw orthodox in israel, he had to exceed to their demands. What are their big demands. This israeli version of the ku klux klan or the american proud boys basically wants one thing. Their jewish supremacists, and they want annexation of the west bank and more settlements and annexation. What do the orthodox want . They want their sons no the to serve in the military and their schools to be free to teach only religious subjects and no math, or science or reading or dommic civics. Who stands in the way of that. One body left in israel with independence, the judiciary, the Supreme Court. So so the religious want the Supreme Court out of the way so it wouldnt interfere with teaching purely religious subjects and not serve in the military and the right wing jewish supremacists want the court out of the way so it wont interfere with their attempts to seize a more Palestinian Land and build more settlements and to legalize more wildcat illegal israeli settlements. That is what this is about. And it is fair to say that these people are on the streets because there are very few limits on an elected government in israel. There is no Written Constitution, there is no upper house, no senate, there are no state governments. This is what you have. And that is why people are out on the streets, because the street is where you could be heard . Well, you cant make this up in some ways, fareed. The Supreme Courts ability to basically curtail government excess is this reasonableness cause that comes out of british law. Why would a government want to get rid of a reasonablist cause that the court enjoys unless he this want to do things that are unreasonable. And netanyahu said this is a small thing, this is a little thing. Nonsense, this was a power grab. It had nothing to do with legal rear form and none of that is on the level. If you wanted to do legal reform or do the israeli equivalent of a constitutional amendment in the United States, you would have done that over a long period of time, brought in legal experts and worked for a consensus. They did none of this. They had a majority and they rammed it through, end of story. Now, when you think Going Forward what is a little worrying and ive talked to Israeli Friends Of Mine who talk about this, is that the parts of the coalition that youre describing that are backing netanyahu, particularly in some of the more extreme stuff, they are all of the people in israel who have children and the people opposing the old secular leads, the tech guys, theyre all, you know, having two children, if that. Is that a por tend for future Domo Graphically . This is a legal fight and a social revolution basically. The orthodox represent about 20 of the population. Their numbers double every 20, 25 years. Theyll be 40 of israel in 20, 25 years and they will not study science, math or english or dmic civics. The Secular Tech Western part of israel, basically pays is 20 of the population and they pay about 90 of the taxes and they fight 105 of the wars. So behind this sort of legal issue is a feeling that, hey, i was ready to do that, as long as it was live and let live. Ive lived in two countries in The Middle East intensively, lebanon and israel. Theyre tiny countries with incredibly diverse populations. Very small but incredibly diverse. The only way countries like that could work is on the principle of live and let live, no victory, no vanquish. That is what lebanon blew up over the last 20 years and that is what israel is blowing up now. Live and let live. And it is the ome way and netanyahu is ready to burn it up to pursue political power and keep himself out of jail. And one more thing, tom. In your reporting, youve talked to the president s a bunch of times about all of this. You say that there is a kind of hail mary here that might save the situation which is that israel and netanyahu want normalization is saudi arabia. But the saudis might impose terms that make it very hard to do some of the more radical stuff that bibi wants to do. How likely is that that the saudis do not seem interested in the fate of the palestinian people. The problem for the saudis is they cant get this deal through except under a joe biden presidency. Because democrats wouldnt support it at all under a republican presidency and that marines joe biden has to be attendive to his base and the base of the party. They care that this is a fair deal for the palestinians. So the saudis may not be interested in this. But the u. S. Senate is quite interested. And the base of the Democratic Party is interested in this. It is ironic, the crown prince of saudi arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman holds the future in his hands. He may know be interested in jewish history, but injuryish history is interested in him. Always a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks, fareed. When we come back, well dig further into israels judicial overhaul. Is netanyahu right that the judges have become too powerful . Should the u. S. Pursue similar reforms. We talk to Em Ill Lily Bazelon the break. Fareed zakaria gps, B Brout To You by. 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Joining me now is Emily Bazelon from the New York Times and a fellow of Yale Law School and a cohost of slates political gab fest podcast. Emily, first, lets talk about israel. Why is it that so many people feel that this is kind of overreach on the part of the of the democratic or legislative branch of the Israeli Government in terms of curtailing the courts power . Israel has an unusual constitutional system of checks and balances and separation of powers an the Israeli Supreme Court plays a singular very Important Role as a primary check on the governments power. In the United States, we have several checks and balances. We have two houses of government, both the house in congress and the senate. We have a separation between the executive and the legislative branches and we have a Written Constitution that is hard to change. None of those things exist in israel. There is one house of parliament, the knesset. It is very much connected to the Executive Branch because the Prime Minister leads the party that rules the knesset. And there isnt a Written Constitution, a kind of ordinary majority of parliament could change what are called basic laws that have A Constitutional Stal Us in israel. So for all of those reasons, the Israeli Supreme Court as a protector of Minority Rights and a check on the Majority Rule is crucial and that is why these reforms from this rightwing f netanyahu have such dramatic impact and have generated such a swell of protests. People say that the Supreme Court in israel has sort of ouro gated to itself powers. But in a sense the american Supreme Court did that. There was never in the constitution this power of Judicial Review where the court could essentially decide whether something is constitutional or not. That happens later when Justice Marshall decided that was one of the courts missions. Right. In the United States, our constitution is written in the 1780s and then in the famous case youre talking about, mar berry versus madison, that is 1803 when the Supreme Court said we have the power to say what the law is, to say what the Constitution Means. For a long time, the United States was kind of an outlier. Lots of countries did not have Judicial Review. But then, you know, starting in the 60s and 70s, partly relating to the fall of communism, for a lot of Different Reasons around the world, countries start to write constitutions in which Judicial Review, the power of courts, becomes very important. And so israel kind of joins with that transformation and constitutional revolution in the 1990s when the Israeli Supreme Court declared that the basic laws were like a constitution and that it, the Supreme Court, had the power to interpret those laws. And what netanyahus government is trying to do by curbing the power of the judiciary seems quite similar to what some of these popular governments in Eastern Europe are doing, hungary, urban, the polish and it seems like the efforts to say brute Majority Rule should be more important than what judges do. Right. So if youre an elected party, youve been chosen to rule the country and the court is obstructing you, getting in your way, you get frustrated. And this idea that Minority Rights should continue to matter, that there is this larger framework of the constitution, you want to get that out of your way. And so youre absolutely right, that in hungary and poland, and in other countries, turkey and attack on the power of the courts to try to sort of sweep the judges out of the way is a sign of trouble for democracy and in some other countries it has been the first step toward a slide from democracy to autocracy. And how should we think about america . Because there is this fear in the american left largely that you have this very conservative Supreme Court that is upending a lot of settles law in america. Right. So weve been talking about what happens when the courts become too weak. It is also possible for courts to become too strong. So in the United States, we have a feature that no other country has. We have life tenure for judges. That means that the Supreme Court justices could sit for 30 or 40 years. Youre having a huge amount of power amassed in the hands of a very small group of people and it is random when they leave the bench. And so you have a kind of disconnect between political influence over the court, the ability of republicans or democrats to appoint the justices they want and the composition of the court. The court could lurch far away from American Public opinion and it also is very hard to amend the constitution in the United States. We havent really done that at all in 50 years. So that means that the courts declaration about what the Constitution Means holds sway over all of us. For those reasons, liberals in the u. S. Are arguing right now that the Supreme Court has too much power. And that there are reasons to try to pull back and give more power to the congress, more power to the Executive Branch. How good an idea that is whether it could really happen, that all remains to be determined. Emily bazelon, we always get smarter listening to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, fareed. Next on gps, i talk to Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. Well be back after the break. I brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks uuuhhhh. He, ill take that woohoo ensure max protein, 30 gms of protein, 1 gram of sugar. Enter the 10,000 powered by protein max challenge. wheezing asthma isnt pretty. Its the moment when you realize that a good day. Is about to become a bad one. 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On capitol hill, on wednesday there was a very heated House Judiciary Committee on over sight of the department of Homeland Security. Many berated secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas for what jim jordan called a biden border crisis. The other side of the aisle, said the hearings would be nothing more than political theater. Far away from capitol hill, i sat down with Secretary Mayorkas in aspen to try to understand what is really going on at americas Southern Border and what has happened since the expiration of title 42 in may. That was the covid era policy that allowed Law Enforcement to send migrants swiftly away from the american border. Mr. Secretary, pleasure to have you on. Great to see you, fareed. Thank you for having me. In may there were fears that we were going to be overwhelmed. What is happening . So we have dispelled those fears through a very thoughtful, comprehensive approach to irregular migration to our Southern Border. It has two main components to it. One is to build lawful pathways for people to come to the United States, those who qualify, in a safe and orderly way. A humanitarian way of enabling people to seek asylum in the United States as our laws provide. And the second part of it is to disincentivize those who do not avail themselves of the lawful pa pathways. Weve seen approximately 70 drop of the number of individuals encountered on our Southern Border as a result. That sounds like youre handling the krieind of crisis the moment, but you are at 2. 4 million apprehensions at the border, youre getting all of the people trying to come in. Theyre all claiming to be asylumseekers. They seem to me at least ordinary migrants, economic migrants, may pleaing poverty, disease and gang warfare as people have traditionally. Isnt the asylum system broken, if there is no distinction between the asile em seekir. The system is broken. From the time an individual who makes a claim for relief and the final adjudication of that claim is all too often many years. And the difficulty is people settle, they have children here in the United States and then it gets it becomes very difficult to remove them. Should they not succeed in their ultimately asylum claim. We are dealing with fundamentally, were dealing with a broken Immigration System and that is includes the asylum process. So why dont we fix the laws . Why dont we do a real overhaul of this whole system . It seems like europeans are beginning to think about the same thing. Were gridlocked in congress. It is as simple as that. I think there is unanimity, about the fundamental fact that were dealing with a broken Immigration System and yet the solution is proving tremendously illusive for decades now. And that relates the 90s is the last time our Immigration System was legislated. And another part that strikes me as clearly broken, so we have lost the ability to really take in skilled migrants. Canada is taking in 250,000. Whereas were taking in 85,000 skilled migrants, each one visas. We have eight times the population of canada and theyre taking four times as many skilled migrants and we now do something which strikes me as almost the symbol of how broken the system is. We do a lottery. A lottery suggests capriciousness, whimsey, not rules or qualifications, any kind of functioning system. It is literally saying youre taking a gamble. Number one, we have a lottery. Number two, we have a numerical cap, a numerical limit that is not in any way tied to market needs. It is a historic legislative numerical limit. Canada needs laborers, skills and unskilled and the like. And they could calibrate their openness to migration, to bringing workers in according to market needs. We are divorced. And no prospect of any legislative fix . I remain hopeful, but it does not look promising right now. And it has alluded us year in and year out. For decades. After we taped that interview, a judge struck down the new Biden Asylum Policy but temporarily stayed his own ruling. So, the biden policy currently remains in effect. We will be watching to see what happens next. Coming up next on gps, a russian journalist on whether putins grip on power was shaken at all by the recent wouldbe mutiny. Were reinventing our network. With smarter, more efficient routes. So you can deliver more value to your customers. Fast. Reliable perfectly orchestrated. The United States postal service. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. Some medicines only treat the lows or highs. Vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. 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Together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. Yaaay woo hoo ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. The americas best Celebrity Sale is here. With pictureworthy Designer Frames at a fly price from Sofia Vergara youre in my shot . Be sure to get my good side get two pairs of Celebrity Frames for 89. 95 for a limited time at americas best. Book an exam today. Its been more than a month since the failed mutiny in russia by the Wagner Group Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin. And questions still swirl about putins grip on power. Did the failed mutiny weaken putin or make him even stronger. So answer that key question and more, im joined by the russian journalist mikhail zygar, from the russian news channel tv rain and he has a Book Out War And Punishment and the path to russians ukraine. Pleasure to have you on. Thank you. First question, has this mutiny weaked putin and the reason we think it did is he isnt punishing prigozhin, he hasnt punished much of the wagner group. He feels them in some way and he feels that he cant act, toer a guy that likes revenge, this seems odd. Even more he used to be considered a person who is in control. Who controls all of the elite, all of his inner circle and who is the guarantor of the peace, the only guarantor of peace and stability. Now, for many people, inside of his own bureaucracy, it is clear that the emperor is naked. I cannot control even his puppets because Everybody Knows that prigozhin used to be his puppet for so many years. And yes, hes not punishing prigozhin. He spent most of the month in and he was even allowed to come to moscow to meet with putin personally. As far as we know, hes still in st. Petersburg . Yeah, it was revealed just it has just been confirmed that he was attending the summit, africa summit in st. Petersburg. The sub title of your book gets at an interesting question, from Henry Kissinger to europeans thought putin was rational, he was calculating and he was incremental and they did not as a result predict or think that he would declare war in february when he did. Why did he make that decision . You know, putin is not as rational as some people in the west believe. He is very irrational and most of his decisions are deeply rooted in his psychology, in his youth, in how in the people that he used to talk to many years ago. It is i describe it in my book that most of his prejudice against ukrainian nationalists is just because of his favorite novel, he was reading when he was a young student. That was a Detective Story about a soviet spy who was fighting against ukrainian nationalists. So it is very weird how putin perceived russian history. But at the same time, hes part of his generation and he is the part of Russian Traditional Historical Narrative that exists in russia. That is unfortunately the only version of history we have always had and with this book ill trying to debunk the russian historical mythology because it is probably the most dangerous part of russian propaganda narrative. Because putin will go, but for many people, all of those myths would remain the same. One of things that people say is that putin has always had, as you say, this kind of Ultra Russian nationalist narrative. And then covid happens. He stops meeting with anybody, foreigners, he gets and more isolated. He restricts himself to a circle of real kind of Acolytes Anda had to warquarantine for two we before you could see him and he got into a hot house of just these highly nationalist russians. Absolutely. And it is weird that during the covid months he has become even more obsessed with history than before. Because after that he started Writing Articles about the History Of Poland and ukraine and lecturing russians about history. But it is all false. It is all falsified version of russian history. He has created an Emergencyary Empire and trying to impose that point of view. And it works for so many people who are not i dont think that it works for majority of russians. But many people buy it. There was an anecdote in the f. T. , that Sergey Lavrov who was told about the invasion only two hours before, was asked who is advising Vladimir Putin and he said, i could tell you, he has three main visors, Peter The Great Catherine The Great and the fourth one is stalin. At the end of the day, do you think his days are numbered in any meaningful sense . You know, actually, the sources in moscow, i believe, right after prigozhins mutiny sta started telling me that they used to be sure that his situation is very stable and he might be there for years to come and they think that probably one year at least. Because the situation is the system is shaking. Many people from his elite understand that he is hes not there and they have to prepare for russia after putin. And at same time, he thinks that he underestimates all of the difficulties of his situation, and he think that the time is on his side, because hes waiting for american elections. Hes waiting for donald trump to be back and hes sure that once donald trump is back in the white house, hes going to be fine, there is going to be no war, no resistance from ukrainian side, no support for ukraine. With trump. And that is the happy end for President Putin. Mikhail, pleasure to have you on. Best of luck. Your reporting has been fantastic. Thank you. Next on gps, two government officials, two powerful nations, two disappears. What could we learn from the Trouble Events . One in russia and one in china. That story when we c come back. Perfectly orchesestrated. The United States postal servicece. Ive been telling everyone. The secret to great teeth. Is having healthy gums. 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This week it was announced that ching was removed from his post as Foreign Minister. The websites were scrubbed of any mention of him. Beijing is thick with rumors about him. His disappearance and removal is more aund soing considering he was the protege of xi jinping, hand picked as the u. S. Ambassador two years ago and catapulted over more experienced leaders to become the youngest Foreign Minister of china in 70 years. Whatever happened to him, this episode highlights the opassity of the chinese officials that disappear from view with little to any public explanation. Some the secrecy is due to the fact that he was close to xi jinping and any investigation into him would reflect poorly on president xis judgment. But if ching had become the victim of his political rivals, then it is a shame. As the economist notes, ching was clever and surprisingly candid with diplomats. He spent years studying the United States. He was capable of charming foreign dignitaries and diffusing and these are skills that xi jinping should value and not all of shings rivals possess. And that brings me to another country. Im speaking of general sergei of russia who was last seen in a Hostage Style video last month as the wagner groups Yevgeny Prigozhin and his troops marched on moscow. In the video he was wearing fatigues but striped of all insignia pled to aband on the coup. It perhaps indicated coercion. He was close to prigozhin who called him a man who is not afraid of responsibility. U. S. Intelligence officials told the New York Times that he had advanced knowledge of the attempted coup. The times also report that he was believed to be detained under questioning late last month. Though it is easy to see why the general could make president put putin uneasy, this is a disappearance that is bad for putin and his objective to win the war in ukraine. He earned the nickname general armageddon for his time in command of russia force, but considering putins aims they are effective. Oez known as a dangerously competent military leader. In october he was appointed head of the Russian Forces in ukraine. He promptly withdraw from kherson and stepped up attacks on ukraines power plants. Im not praising the man or the russian invasion of ukraine. But these were clear eyed tough decisions given kremlin wanted an aggressive offensive. And for these efforts, he was demoted in favor of general gerry that cost Russian Forces dearly. Now hes missing and geary continues to run the ukraine effort. As written in the New York Times, the country Defense Minister and geary, both of whom are willing to tell putin only what he wants to hear will continue to conduct the war in an inept fashion for the sake of familiarity, the kremlin has chosen to reinforce failure. It is the nature of a closed political system that yesmen and political operators win out over competence every time. These twin events in china and russia remind us of the virtues of an open and Democratic Political system despite all its messiness. You know, we often despair at the tumult of democracies, look at the resolving door of Prime Ministers and constant leaks, resignations an recriminations. We cringe at the volatility of trumps cabinet, his abrupt much publicized dismissals of generals and other staff, their attacks on him. It all seems undignified like a Soap Opera Unraveling before our eyes. But on the whole, it is a good thing. It is open politics, openly engaged in. There is no mystery as to why Boris Johnson had to resign. No one claims that Rex Tillerson left the State Department because he got ill. And in democracies we wash our dirty laundry in public. And the events in china and russia in recent weeks show us that perhaps that Laundry System is a key ingredient of democracys resilience. Thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week. So e to your customers. Fast. Reliable. Perfectly orchestrated. The United States postal service. When migraine strikes, youre faced with a choice. Ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating . Or push through the pain and symptoms . With ubrelvy, theres another option. One dose works fast to eliminate mraine pain. Treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if its too late. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. Most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. Migraine pain relief starts with u. Ask about ubrelvy. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like, what is your glucose . And can you have more carbs . Before you decide. 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