"reliable sources." where we examine the story behind the story and find out what is reliable in the news. this houring mounting new reports about governor andrew cuomo and a toxic workplaces. more sources coming forward. how long could he stand against the daily coverage. and the democrat's covid relief law is big news. but what about the bigger story of inequality in america. how could the media better capture this divide. and later fall out from the interview of the year. what will be the long-term impacts of oprah's sitdown with harry and meghan. but first i have come to one conclusion about the gop and the media. i want to see you if agree oar disagree with me. even though republicans are out of power, the use of the media, their use of the media has a major impact on the democrats. and on political dysfunction. so what i'm about to say directly impacts president biden and his administration. all right. are you ready for it? here is my conclusion. tucker carlson is the new donald trump. tucker has taken trump's place as a right wing leader, as an outraged generator, as a fire starter and it is all happening on fox just like trump's campaign did. which means rupert and lock lynn murdock are ultimately responsible. think about all of the ways these two men are similar. every day carlson is throwing bombs, making online memes, offending millions of people and delighting millions of other and tapping into white mail rage and resentment, stoking distrust of big tech in the media. generally coursening the discourse, never apologizing for anything and setting the gop's agenda. sounds like a recently retired president, right? even before the 2020 election, there was informed speculation about carlton as a 2024 candidate. of course some of his attractors say he's just a troll. he's just really good at ticking people off. but isn't that what they said about trump for years? yes, tucker is known to critique trump and the republican party from time to time. this time last year he was at mar-a-lago trying to convince trump to take covid more seriously. but he tells the same conspiracytory that trump told. the statement they're out to get you story that trump told for years. it is the paranoid style in american politics all over again and tucker sucks up some of the fury that trump did and stokes the same debates and it raises the same predicament that trump did five years ago. whether and how to cover his claims. here is some of what tucker did this past week. he said pregnant service members are a mockery to the u.s. and has a mal kul increase is and he flipped out and doubled down and berating a "new york times" reporter and then blasted the times for defending her. he tries to rewrite history about george floyd's death and he mocked meghan markle and defended piers morgan and it is all because of these individuals on screen. what tucker wants is attention. what rupert murdoch wants for him is attention as this headline put it, he's the post trump maga champion as the number one star on fox news with ratings far ahead of anyone else on fox. and by the way other shows re-airs comments all days long. it is increasingly the tucker carlson channel and they cut a deal to expand his profile on fox's streaming service, too. it is ultimately all about the murdocks and what they want. how they're going to keep the profits flowing by givening the viewers more and more radicalized content. led by tucker carlson. so what does it tell us about the state of the right wing media and what does it mean for biden's white house. let's bring in s.e. cupp and eric wemple and april ryan from the agreo and the one and only david zurawik, the media critic for the baltimore sun. s.e., am i right or wrong, that tucker is the new donald trump in. >> yeah, i see what you're saying. i can't decide if he's the rich man's trump or the poor man's trump. in some ways he's smarter than trump. >> i think so. >> which is disappointing to people like me who know him. because he could be making very good substantive arguments about conservative and politics that would be more policy-based. i think in some ways the murdock are relieved that the gop no longer wants to tackle substance and policy and wants to live in the culture wars. they make for much better television which is why you're seeing fox become the tucker channel, the 24-hour tucker channel and tucker is leaning into that kind of coverage and instead of doing the stuff that he used to do, that he's more than capable of doing, that trump never could. >> april ryan, do you think tucker is a thorn in the side of the administration, do you think the white house cares about his daily attacks? >> every cares about tucker carlson, the entertainers attacks. he's a thorn in the biden side, a thorn in everyone's side. he is stirring a deadly witch's brew in his cauldron all or the purposes of gaining more attention and more people which translates to money for fox. tucker carlson has put a lot of people's lives on line for his entertainment purposes. >> on the line -- >> millions of america around the world. lines on the line. taylor lorenz, when tucker carlson puts you on his target board, people throw out crazy threats and death threats and she has to, in exchange, speak loudly and publicly so people could see what is happening to save her life. trust me because i understand, because i've been a target of tucker carlson. >> tucker would say he gets lots of threats as well. that everybody gets threats and i would say all of that is despicable and the temperature should be lowered but tucker raises the temperature. look at what he did during the fox prime time speech of joe biden. tucker is about to respond. they put up this live tucker carlson reaction cam in the corner of the screen. so let's get our own tucker carlson reaction cam and see how this is going to look. sorry, zurawik, we're squeezing you out of the corner there. i can't, david, if this was television genius or if this was pathetic desperate attempt to hold on to the viewers on the part of fox. what did you think? >> brian, i definitely don't think it was television genius. and i'm looking for it. television is a different medium. if you do something and it works, i'll all with you. but this was not genius. what i saw was something that you would see in a high schooler, a kmidle school class and when the teacher speaks behind the teachers back. and here is the thing about this. just think about when we talk about dumbing down the civil conversation of american life, this -- biden is talking about a package, a safety net, that rivals lbj and fdr and this is the response tucker carlson and fox has, faking faces at him. >> that's an interesting point. tucker carlson would wrap himself in the flag and say that and we're in the midst of a crisis and they're playing these games. eric, what is your analysis of the tucker phenomenon. you've studied him for years. >> i want to say i disagree with zurawik. if we could get to a situation where all tucker carlson does is make facial expressions, i think the country is a hell of a lot better off. >> this is the dynamic. this is the question about trump years ago. should we, all five of us, be paying attention to tucker carlson? >> well i think that is not longer really an arguable premise since tucker helped conduct the white house for the past four years. so i think i hear a lot about that, why are we giving them any further air time, it is important to put a stake down and to speak against it. i know that oftentimes it feels like we're pissing into the wind but it is an important marker to put down. and i believe in what i'm doing and it is clear that the murdocks don't listen to us. but i think it is important to tell the truth. >> some of your recent headlines about this saying that he's announced he's doing more hateful analysis and they're adding more and more tucker programming on fox. >> yes. they're expanding his foot print. they know they have a star, so to speak. tucker, i think, your analogy between tucker and trump is for two reasons, hatred and lie. they both traffic in hatred and lies and for the longest time people have warned that the next trump will be savvier in terms of how he lies and that is exactly what tucker carlson is. he doesn't lie with every utterance, but he lies strategically and carefully and he lies in such a way that he gets them past his audience. and the rest of the world sits there and fact checks him and nobody else seems to care. he pulls in 4 million people and to april's point, those 4 million people listen carefully and they take cues from tucker carlson. >> and you talk about others on fox, especially, what is the right reaction, how do you and others handle that? >> you can't ignore it because the numbers are so great when they come at you. but what you do, again, in order to save your life, you have to speak on it and call it out to show people what is happening. this is inhuman what he's doing and a judge had to rule over tucker carlson when his attorney talked about him, he's not a news reporter, he's an entertainer. this entertainment is deadly and fox should be ashame of it. and we saw the threats that came into reality on january 6 because of a brew, a poisonous witches brew was stirred up over there. >> and you say shut him down and kick him off cable and i don't anyone is -- >> i don't have that power. >> i don't think anybody is going to remove fox news from the cable lineup. but as fox radicalizes and as it becomes more of a political tool, zurawik, you wrote a column saying fox should be viewed as a political pool and should is be a part of the white house press pool that comes with news gathering even though they do have some news reporters at the white house, you're saying they're primarily a political tool so shouldn't that be reassessed, zurawik? >> i think it is a discussion we need to have. i doesn't say, murdock said they're the loyal opposition and that is a political term. it is party that opposed the party in power. in that system, that parliamentary system, it says they share the same values for culture and society. when you put people on your show telling the big lie as they did with -- with former president, when they put him on, putting that lie on, for people who tried shut down the government, when -- on january 6th, you're not supporting democracy, you're not supporting the larger values of this culture. they don't even stand up as an opposition party but there is nothing journalistics in what murdock said and let's take them on the word, let's not let them on the plane. you want to let proud boys on air force one, no. i don't think so. these guys are doing the same thing. >> you're going to get attention for that. >> thanks, brian, i needed that. >> i see you're up first after the break. breaking news about biden's meet the press moment. and the fight for voting rights in america. we'll take up the media coverage next. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work. just a little easier. still a legend. just more legendary. chevrolet. making life's journey, just better. antibacterial or moisturizing body wash? 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>> well, one, the thing that really strikes me about cuomo, and the drum beat mounts and these are such credible charges, i don't know how he could with stand it. but what he's do it, and this is really sad for democratic politician of the stature he formerly enjoyed. he's behaving like president trump. he's looking at the allegations against him, which are far more, and we had evidence of $130,000 paid to one woman for silence during the election, but he's taking -- that is one of the ways people like trump corrupt or political system. who are is a democrat from a storied family, and now he's behaving like that. he's thinking, well it works for these guys, why can't it work for me. i'm not going to jump out until they push me out. i don't think he could with stand it, brian. and god bless the press for pressing him as hard as it is pressing him now. i hope -- i hope it doesn't let up. i hope it doesn't let up and whatever is going to happen, is going to happen. but he's going to stay in as long as he can. >> and to wemple's point about cnn, the job always is to cover the story as if it was anybody else or any other story, just cover it the same way no matter what. let's turn to the current occupant of the white house and president biden and questions about his availability to the press. george stephanopoulos will interview bide then week as he goes out there promoting the covid relief law. the president has sat down with an interview and held town halls but has not held a solo press conference and there is more grumbling that he has not held a formal fancy press conferences at the white house. during trump, we have would have count down clocks how many times they avoid having press briefings maybe it is time for the same thing for biden. 53 days, without a solo press conference. april, is the press making too much of this. because i know a lot of biden supporters say this is just b.s. noise from the media and it doesn't matter. >> no, it is not too much about nothing. the american public is in the midst of colliding crises and you want to hear from the leader of the free world, the man who is signing off on the documents and th and the -- the documents and the laws about what is happening. and i talked to jen psaki this morning and she has affirmed this president will have a press conference by the end of the month. the question is what day and when. will it be night time or during the day. he's traveling back and forth the next couple of weeks for the arp. but at the end of the day, america needs to hear from this president in challenging times, when people are trying to make ends meet, they are hurting on every side. people need to hear what he plans, what is in his head for the move forward for the here and for the later. >> s.e., what is your take on all of the both right wing and left wing and chatter about when biden is going to have a presser. >> i think it is a strategy. it is a strategy to be less visible than the former guy. and to be less -- you know, engrossed in your daily life, less involved and inserted into your daily life. but, i think it is a bad strategy. i get it. but no, we want to hear from the president. especially one that, i think, a lot of people trust and want to hear what is going on behind the scenes and what is happening and ask questions directly and challenge maybe this president on some of the policies we've seen unfold. and you and i, brian, i remember lamenting a number of times over the course of his campaign that he wasn't available a enough to the press. >> right. >> so this is -- i think part of biden world. and i think as a journalist, and just a citizen, we always want more. we want more and journalists want the ability to be able to question the president. >> right. we always do want more, that is true. everyone thank you very much. zurawik stick around for later. what we could all learn from oprah's master class in interviewing and the growing effort to suppress the vote. we're going to ask two voting rights experts about the fair and balance, the actual fair and balanced way to cover this critical issue. cause our way wor us! 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>> you know, i think that the biggest problem with election coverage at the local level is there are not enough local reporters. the elections reporters that we have and that i have trained in the past cover everything from city government to education and so we're really trying to kind of seed the field with just election reporters and giving large major metro dailies a paid-for staff member that could do that coverage for them. >> i see. that is cool. jennifer, i hear both sides of the coverage of these topics. republicans are introducing these bills and democrats say this and that. what is the ground level truth about what is going on post 2020 election in these states to change voter laws? >> yeah, so i think one of the most important things we need to do here is really push on these legislators who are claiming that they're making these changes to increase voter confidence or to further secure the way voting is conducted in their state. and i think we need to push back and ask, what about the procedures weren't safe two years or ago or four years ago, because in many states it's the same policies and procedures for many, many years and they've worked well and i think we need to push back on that and ask for specifics. >> are you seeing just straight up call it what it is voter suppression happening in these republican-controlled states? >> sure. i mean, all of these measures, whether it is to require identification being mailed in with mail ballots or to restrict altogether who could utilize absentee ballots or something as simple as how they get returned, rolling back the option of using ballot drop boxes will have a h huge impact. >> i'll see a story about something in georgia, or a bill in arizona, or is there enough coverage widening out and showing the overall story, all of the forest in this case? >> sure. i think that the thing that the media is currently missing is that these arguments might be louder than they've ever bu been but claiming about voter insecurity into terms of confidence or the lack of election security have been a talking point for the far right of the republican party for decades. and so these arguments are just building on a decades long historical base about election and election security. so i think we need to give national historical arguments because they are baseless now and they were 20 years ago buts that not stopped the republican party from talking about it every day. and until we combat that narrative than we'll keep seeing these stories and these claims. >> the big lie is the latest rendition of a long-term story that has been told on the right about voting, about the right to vote. so jennifer, your advice for the media in the months to come? >> yeah, so i think we need to continue doing what some have done a fantastic job of caveating statements and claims by putting in words like unsubstantiated, unfounded, alleged, fraud, i think we need to continue to do that. jessica is right, this is not new. but it is gaining more momentum. and so i think every single time that needs to be called out for what it is when we refer back to things that are just blatantly fa false. >> absolutely. j and j, jessica and jennifer. one more note, it is important to remember what the past administration, what president trump was trying to do, remember all of the lawsuits against news outlets, these ridiculous lawsuits. well this week a new york state lawsuit rejected the campaign bid to sue "the new york times" for defamation about trump and russia. that is thrown out. and there are other defamation suits. last month devin nunez fight against cnn was thrown out. these get attention when they are first filed and then rarely is the follow-up afterwards to say, oh, yeah, that was b.s., it was thrown out, a judge didn't believe it. coming up next here on "reliable sources" one journalist wants to cover the landscape of american inequality. we'll go with him on his mission to meet alec macgalis, next. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! you're good. some companies still have hr stuck between employees and their data. entering data. changing data. more and more sensitive, personal data. and it doesn't just drag hr down. it drags the entire business down -- with inefficiency, errors and waste. it's ridiculous. so ridiculous. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. visit paycom.com, and schedule your demo today. at fidelity, you get personalized wealth planning and unmatched overall value. together with a dedicated advisor, you'll make a plan that can adjust as your life changes, with access to tax-smart investing strategies that help you keep more of what you earn. and with brokerage accounts, you see what you'll pay before you trade. personalized advice. unmatched value. at fidelity, you can have both. ♪ more than this ♪ washed your hands a lot today? probably like 40 times. hands feel dry? like sandpaper. introducing new dove handwash, with 5 x moisturizer blend. removes germs in seconds, moisturizes for hours. soft, smooth. new dove handwash. and we're back here on "reliable sources," i'm brian stelter. inequality in the united states is one of the biggest stories of our time. domestically, it does impact the entire world. and inequality has been exacerbated during the pandemic. it is in some ways a complicated story to cover and the reporters could try to do it in many different ways. the daily, and weekly and monthly unemployment data and the claims economic data is showing charts that reveal just the staggering trouble that the u.s. economy remains in. and obviously the covid relief bill, the law that is now taking effect, it is going to have a major impact and the imt pacts will be covered for years to come. journalist try to show what this means for american families showing individual struggles but what about the larger landscape of inequality. that is the subject of a remarkable new book coming out on tuesday. it is titled "fulfillment, winning and losing in one click america." it looks at amazon's far-reaching impacts. the author is alec macgalis. and he's with me now. what could we learn about you and from fulfillment about how to better cover the landscape of inequality? >> what i try to do with this book, brian, is to really look at inequality from a regional standpoint, looking at the whole landscape of inequality in this country. we talk about inequality in terms of individual income, the 1% and the 99% but we don't talk enough about places. there is a huge growing gap in between places in this country, we've always had richer and poorer places but that gap has gotten so much bigger. it is not just about the urban/rural gap, it is about cities left behind and winner take all cities like washington, san francisco, boston, seattle and new york and a whole bunch of other cities left behind. places that a lot of our families come from, places that a lot of us still live in and we feel the pain of watching the cities that we live in fall behind these sort of rich get winner, winner take all cities and my book used amazon as a frame on to this problem. the book is not so much about amazon per se, but it is about amazon's america, everything that falls within the shadowing of this hugely dominant company and i have no idea when i started this book how timely it would now be that it would be coming out after a year where this company has grown so much more dominant and wealthy. where these gaps have gotten so much bigger. >> you write about tech workers in seattle living the dream in these fantastic futuristic buildings and then in the next chapter about a worker who is making the cardboard boxes that are going to ship packages. and his family is suffering, barely getting by, living in a shelter. these contrasts are all throughout your book. and it feels to me, we rarely -- we try in television but rarely see that worker who is making $10 an hour, the same amount he made a decade ago. so how do you find these sources and how do you tell their sto stories? >> because i've been out there in the country the last few years on the ground talking to people for my daily journalist and i sort of expanded on their lives for the book. the real goal of the book is exactly as you say, to show you the whole eco-system from the high-tech, high paid workers from jeff bezos to the guy making the card bork box or the truck drivers and to give you this visceral sense of what is going on in the lives around the country. >> and where you are in baltimore is a perfect illustration. i grew up in maryland. i love baltimore and love d.c., too. the divide between baltimore and d.c. continues to become more and more stark. tell us why that is a way to understand this subject. >> it really was kind of a driving core for the book was that one divide. the book is nationwide. but at its heart really that baltimore/washington divide. the two cities just 40 miles apart used to be so much -- so similar in terms of scale and prosperity and wealth. and now have just grown wildly apart. you travel those 40 miles now and it is dizzying, just the gap between them. so the book used that as a core example, the fact that amazon chose d.c. for a second headquarters, chose a city so wealthy and with so much jobs and prosperity, they're getting 25,000 more high paid jobs and it is rich get richer and meanwhile baltimore gets the warehouse and it is the warehouse town. and so then one of the warehouses is moving into a place that used to hold the biggest steel plant in the world, guys making $35 an hour, now making $15 an hour doing much less fulfilling purposeful kind of work and i use that example in the book as just as a story to tell the transformation of work in this country and what is really happened to the middle and the working class. >> and at the same time, people love amazon's convenience and people will order your book on amazon. do you find that strange? >> i'm happy to have people order the book anywhere. there are plenty of independent book stores that are happy to sell the book as well. >> that is true. >> but the book, the book does try to show you what is behind the easy one click. >> and that is what we need to know. and that way people could make informed choices that is critical. but in this environment of extreme divide between wealth and poverty, we need the reporting. thank you so much. i highly recommend the book titled "fulfillment, winning and losing in one click america." after what is next for piers morgan. the latest fallout for the royal interview and his walk off the set, next. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work. just a little easier. still a legend. just more legendary. chevrolet. making life's journey, just better. to support a strong immune system, your body needs routine. centrum helps your immune defenses every day, with vitamin c, d and zinc. season, after season. ace your immune support, with centrum. ♪ ♪ be right back. with moderate to severe crohn's disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? 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they took on piers morgan. your analysis of oprah's questions. >> it was a great interview. oprah is still the queen of interviews. i've been doing nthis for years and i was reminded. >> so, trisha, now what? now what for the british press and the royal family? >> it's really interesting, brian, because this whole thing, you've seen from some of the tabloids, a presenting of opinion as fact. we'll see where everything goes from here. they put out a statement denying meghan markle's claims, saying they have a proud representation standing up against racism. t% to suggest that i reflect exactly how . >> interesting news friday from harry and meghan. they had this interview. what are they going to do now? i think they want to transform those words to actions. here's the headline from friday. they're investing in the next generation of young journalists. they are donating money to a couple journalism start-ups. they're going to try to fund media that represents their values. david, last thought from you? >> i think this was one of the most important interviews. people think, iltst's the royal blah, blah, blah. this got to the heart of what's happening in the country and the world. a reactionary force that doesn't want to give them power and the growing demographic and demand for reckoning. this little interview, which is a huge interview now, she caught that in the interview. by the way, hats off to meghan and harry, especially meghan, for being so honest and brave in that interview to talk about mental health and suicide issues. god bless her for that. and what an idiot piers morgan is to go after that. >> i'm sure piers will react. >> i hope so. >> sign up for free on reliablesources.com. this nbc story says the coronavirus, quote, may well have demolished the belief in big government. big government, small government, what about open government? you should know where your money is going and that's what sunshine week is all about. it showcases the federal information act and lets them pry money from agencies. in south carolina these laws sh shined a light on waste and corruption. in michigan they had glaring delays on vaccinations. the public does need to be defended. this week's trial in iowa was an illustration of that. we talked about des moines rep reporter. we get into all of this from three journalism experts. you can check it out wherever you listen to your pods. thank you for joining us. we'll see you back here next week. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst psst you're good (naj) at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. (money manager) because our way works great for us! (naj) but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. (money manager) so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? (naj) nope, we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. (money manager) but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right? (naj) we don't have those. (money manager) so what's in it for you? 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