We do want to check where stocks are and what has been a volatile few hours of trading the dow holding on the a 1. 5 gain thats better than 300 points. That stunning claims number today. Everybody digesting that the stunning move higher in oil as well. The president saying there could be a cut of 10 Million Barrels lets welcome in jim she joins us on the phone. Welcome back i hope you and yours are safe and healthy. We are, scott i hope the same for everybody there and everybodys families we appreciate that. Can you sort of help us. I want to make sure our viewers understand exactly the angle that were coming from today what is your current positioning in the market . Are you net short as we speak . We have our own hedge fund which basically is always net long varying degrees. That is about 50 give or take a little bit net long. Thats on the low end of where its been. Thats probably where well be for a while. On the short onlies, its been hard the stay short. If the market goes your way, you get less invested. Youre constantly having the change that. Depending on the client we have clients asking us to stay 100 and in funds we have discretion in were probably around 75 thats kind of in line historically thats where we are. Its been a crazy ride its hard to stay short im wondering your view of where this market goes from here whether you think we could retest the lows if not go lower for if you think we have put in a bottom in some respects or were close to doing that. Simple answer i have no idea basically what were telling clients is for them, were looking backwards and forwards is the simplest way to describe it were looking for ideas that were silly based on 2019 and since everybody is going to write off 2020, arguably justifiably so, how do these things look. How do Companies Look coming out of this and our questionable companies with questionable Business Models still priced at a premium today based on 2021. Theyre not going to make money in 2021. Those are the stocks your viewers should avoid and the kinds of things that were short. Have you covered shorts you and i had a discussion. Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. We covered our Energy Shorts we have been telling clients for a long time that model was uneconomic it was uneconomic at 25 oil it was uneconomic at 50 oil and it was uneconomic at 70 oil those birds have come home to roost. Having said all that, a lot of our Energy Shorts were just decimated. The risk reward has changed like anything else in the market. Individual situations, obviously we have being selective. If the stock really takes a dive for some reason, either anticipated or unanticipated, well get out. Its one of the few things that short sellers do in bare markets that people forget about were often buyers on weakness luck and coffee was a good example today which we were short thanks to muddy waters who urged me to take a look at it back in february Company Comes out. The risk reward dynamic has changed. Its time to move on you covered short as were look at it is down more than 70 . Its a great example when people talk about banning short selling or restricting short selling. Restrict that ability, you take it away. Were in a crisis we all recognize that. To those who suggest that shorting stocks and let me make a differentiation, im not referring to shorts you had on for a very long period of time well before the winds of the virus started to blow and change and come in a very big way now that we have what you consider to be a forced recession, if you will and that shorting stocks or maybe initiating new shorts now is not the right thing to do. How would you respond to that sort of criticism . Im not suggesting that you are at the current time looking for more targets or not. I would flip that around and say when times are booming and people are promoting stocks left, rite and center and investors are speculating or margins and often urged to do so, whatever the venue might be whether its tv or print or whatever, i would argue that far more financial damage is done to investors by that behavior than any behavior might be by fundamental short sellers who buy in large in an environment like today are net purchasers of stocks we were selling stocks to those people who were probably doing things they shouldnt be doing with their capital in light 2019, early 2020 now were buying back stocks where cushion to the market. Your viewers or investors at large by behavior that probably should be checked in time of excess than anything short sellers are doing in 2020. Are you looking for more opportunities on the short side or is it because the market has come down so much youre a little gun shy to do that at this point obviously, valuations are lower. Were always looking for opportunities. Thats what we do. I dont know where the market is going. Thats long been our view as a company and as my view as chief Investment Officer i dont know where the market is going opinion i dont kn going. I dont know that other people know where its going. We have been fairly successful in doing that. Valuations down then well be less likely to do something. Theres lots of situations where the value situations are still excessive and kind of shockingly so its interesting theres lots of things that look interestingly cheap. Theres tons of companies about you should be buying x, y, z because its doing well. A lot of these companies are trading at 30, 40, 50 times earnings because they will do well in first and Second Quarters of 2020 that would be an area i would tell your viewers to be very careful. Are you suggesting when you say vie rrus stocks that the zom media, the teledox the telecomms, the zoom, c clorox we would urge investors to look at the business and 2019 and take an educated guess and do your reserge and dwrour woarch k this looks like in 2021. Are you short, shozoom media we are not. What about telexdox i wouldnt do that no josh. This environment is difficult to analyze anything. You have to right off 2020. You have to be very careful because 2020 will expose a lot of mid models. Look at the restaurant industry. What people got really wrong here was they look at the Restaurant Company which is are basically franchise and said they are asset light they just collect coupons in the form of royalty fees the guys like duncan and wendys and Restaurant Brands all are landlords as well. They lease restaurants from investors and sublease them to their restaurant franchisees theres double hidden leverage there. On top of that, most of those Companies Went out and bought lots of stock back at the highs. The landlords are leveraged and losing money and closing its like triple leverage. Those Business Models are going to be exposed in 2020 for what they really are. I think its going to be one of the dark sides of the buy back boom, i think. Names like wendys, duncan and qsr Restaurant Brands that you would prior were short, you still are all three . We still are, yeah. Short all three names. More stocks in the restaurant space as well or are those primarily the ones that you talked about and still are those primarily but were keeping a eye closely on the whole space. Even in the prospects of what were kushcurrently dealing with that some of these businesses that have drive throughs could see a tick up in business or tow the line until the other side. Again, were looking at situations, were trying normalize the business we will write off the First Quarter and Second Quarter and see what the business looks like going forward. Thats why you have to be very careful with those theres a beside of thought that every one will take uber i think the flip side is that the labor pool issue for the Gig Economy Companies will loom large coming out of this crisis. Keep in mind that we as taxpayers are paying correctly so, the Unemployment Benefits for a lot of drivers, uber, lyft, grub hub and so on the reason were paying that is because the companies themselves never paid into the unemployment pools. Its the whole idea of keeping employees as independent contractors rather than employees. I think both Political Parties will be looking at that pretty hard coming out the crisis to enhance Corporate Responsibility in lots of different ways whether its keeping employees as independent contractorcontra, whether its restricting buy backs. Theres lots of issues we havent thought through about this that will make a difference to u. S. Businesses i want to get into the ubers and grub hubs and things you have mentioned before. You did mention joshs name. Im sure he has a question for you as well. Josh, you there . Yes greetings from the south shore of long island, my friend. My second favorite place in the whole world. You know that. I do. Youve taught a class on financial fraud at an Ivy League University theres a Silver Lining about recessions and bear markets in that this is the only way we ever really discover fraudulent operators whether on wall street or Blue Chip Companies we really that a lot of magicians were really just behind the curtain and not actually performing magic. People that thought they had returns, the returns were phantom and when they went to get their money all at once, there wasnt enough money to get back to people what areas do you think, without mentioning anyone name specifically, where do you think the next big scandal will emanate from what kind of work are you guy doing on that question its a great question im teaching my class remotely this upcoming mondays case is the match king the longer the economic expansion goes on and the the longer bull market goes on, peoples sense of belief is reduced. They believe more things that are too good to be true. It gets harder to keep the game going because cheap capital is not available and the Business Models collapse. Then we see the wrong doing. People dont get up set when they are making money on the upside they look the other way on bad corporate behavior the short sellers, the journalists will be pointing out that a guy is doing this and that hes obviously lying peep will shrug and go so what, the stock is going up. When people start losing money, boy do they get upset and press legislators, law enforcement, regular lartors to crack down. We saw that after the dot com. The fraud that is hiding in plain sight. We see it everywhere where people are paying employees with stock and adding it back to proforma earnings. Any way you cut it compensation is an expense. It should be whether its paid in stock or cash then i could go on with the adjustmented to ebitda with the private adjustments but we dont have time to get into that a lot of the behavior is staring you in the face in this cycle. A lot of it on the west coast. With all sorts of add transactions with affiliates jim, i want to just clarify some of that i think its an important point. Msci as part of their inp dex management, specifically over foreign stocks and emerging market stocks have given china a greatly upgraded role in the make up of those indices to the points where investors buying over seas stocks own more china if they are hugging that benchmark. Thats part one. Part two, the exchanges have somewhat blessed investing in Chinese Companies byvirtue of the fact that many of them are listed on either the nasdaq or new york stock exchange. Do you see those two things as being part of the risk for most investors wactching us now . Those are contributed to investors love affair or overweight in china and as well as the idea that, now, listen, ive been known a bit as a glass half empty guy in china to be fair the secular growth rate that china reports is awfully attractive to people if the economy is really growing 6 a year and the rest of the world is struggling. Why wouldnt i be looking there for secular growth stories we have been as luight in china about a year ago we were as low to the ground as we have been in years. We have been increasing our china baschi chinese exposure i see another problem coming out of this crisis i think u. S. China relations are really, really have been harmed. We have seen activities last year that were seeing now such as expelling western journalists. A year ago i think people would have been running around with their hair on fire because its happened in the backdrop of the viruvirus, we he any fle neglected it even fp yif you look at the democratic positions, they have hardened as well i suspect that things are going to get worse between the u. S. And china before they get better youre as negative today on china as you were many years ago when you were the loudest voice. We were the only voice. Were not as negative as we were in 2011. We had about a quarter of a global funds in china. We got down as low as five. Are you still short that and how did that impact your thinking on your positioning tesla, we have told clients in january and february that the threemonth period sort of november, december, january was one of the craziest periods ive seen in my 40 years on wall street if you remember, i know josh saw some of this stuff and maybe some of your other panelists, retail for some reason came pouring into the market in individual names and stories in a way we havent seen since sort of january, february of 2000, at the end of the dot com boom. Thats be one thing that had been missing was just manic speculation by individuals by january or february, we had it if we like the name like we like tesla, we will have to cover some if it goes through our ris parameters and we will sell it and even back down if we want to keep a maximum position. One of the challenges of the short side is you get bigger when it goes against you and gets smaller when it goes your way. Is this is a car company it will lose money again this year the 2021 estimates have being cut. Were seeing big number cuts in this company they are building two plants they finished china. They are building berlin they are increasing capacity you know that units, you need to cover your overhead if youre building more and more capacity. If youre not producing it 90 plus percent of capacity, youre not going to be profitable from a risk stand point you did cover come of the tesla short when it went in your position got larger because the stock had gone parabolic yes we have a 5 limit in our funds. We will add on the way down. Its a very construct ifr story. We had to start covering stock at 180 and 200 on the way up then we sold it down its not an insolvency story, not yet. Its also got a market cap thats 89 billion and over 100 billion dollar total enterprise value in is a company that hasnt made any money since its inception and is not going to make any money this year its a car company you have to keep doing it. Tesla is trading at four times rev lieus. The risk reward is selfevidenst im reminded of the Charlie Munger quote i want to remind our viewers of it i would never buy it i would never sell it short. I think elon musk is peculiar. Is he onto something about the nature and the way this stock trades its tough to be a player. Its a checklist of all of the great frauds in history. Tesla checks six or seven of the boks i think that statement describes kind of almost everybody, right . This has been such you could theoretically be right about some, most, maybe all of the things you say and yet the stock can work against you regardless it may not matter by the way the market trade something whether its tesla or something else, this happens to be the example that were using and to what mr. Munger was speaking to. Theyre called stocks until they arent. Theres no margin for error here i think thats the opportunity if youre a skeptic. Thanks for being on i have a couple of questions for you. Do you think investors, three questions, are looking beyond like you are to 2021 has that migration begun thats number one. Number two, given the induced coma that we have put the economy into, are you surprised at how well markets have held up and does that have something too with cash on the side lines. Is this ultimately going to be the death of passive investing what are your thoughts on those topics ill pass on the last one i dont know im generally a fan of passive investing im often the one advocating a big slug of festivity. For most investors it makes sense. Ill sort of punt on that one. A couple of constructs again, with the overall view i really dont know specifically where the market is going but if you want to think in terms of frame work, i dont think the market is screamingly cheap here its down a lot. On the other hand, again, we can ignore 2020 but if you look at the s p, i think last year was about 160 in earnings give or take as we got before the virus hit, i think people were bringing their numbers down for 2021 to somewhere around that same number thats at a 21 tax rate i pointed out to people, you know, in the not small chance that the democrats take the white house and the senate, and i know the senate is much more of a toss up now, but if Corporate Tax rates were to go back to 35 , that 160 is 130. The s p is kind of, you know, its not ten times which is where a lot of bear markets bottom out at ten times or less. In 2009 it was eight times its been the case in 2002 and go back to 1990. Were you guys when the market did get hit, pretty severely, obviously, ten days ago or so. Were you buyers in the hedge fund on the long side thinking that the market had gone down too far, too fast. Two weeks ago when i think about the 19th or 18th somewhere around there i think ill have to double check but we were probably net buyers im virtually certain of it just because lots of things got down to prices that were the risk reward for what we do is not there anymore. A will the of things snapped back dramatically. We had stocks up 100 in the following 7, 8 days. How do you view things like the airlines or Hotels Things that have obviously gotten hit from a stock stand point and who are going to be facing a lot of trouble going forward. We werent in the cruise lines or the airlines. Were in the casinos and i just think those are such troubled Business Models. Youre really going to have to figure out as i indicated at the beginning, what are these Business Models look like coming out of this. Theyre disasters this year. We know that i can give you a pretty educated guess. Airlines are going to be around. I dont think they are great businesses but they will be around you can look in the capital structure and see maybe theres Something Interesting to do. Cruise lines, i dont get it i havent gotten it all along. Theyre nonu. S. Taxpayers they are flags of convenience companies. They want u. S. Taxpayer assistance which was absurd, in my view. I think that business is probably permanently harmed. It just depends. What are we going to do as a society. Is this going to be like 9 11 where our lives changed . We give up small personal freedoms when we traveled or whatever because of Security Issues are we going to congregate as much coming out of this . Are there going to be costs for companies that are involved in dealing with the mass public that whether its higher insurance costs, Higher Health related costs. Whatever it might be i think investors have to put sharp pencils to this when they look at Business Models let me talk about more about on the theme of coming out of this another company that youve been short is uber. The ceo commented a cupouple of weeks ago about this very thing. Our Balance Sheet is strong. We have plenty of liquidity that positions us to come out of this crisis and we will come out strong, capable and important. Their bookings are down because of the virus thats no surprise the fact of what hes saying about the other side, do you sgr with him on one major point. One of the reasons were short all of the gig economy is i think the entire Business Model is based on this labor arbitrage. Their employee, their drivers are not employees. That is huge because keep in mind that right now the cost to keep an employee beyond salary is usually 20 of someones revenues in the form of payroll taxes, unemployment and a variety of other employees usually the employee pays about half of that in the case of the gig economy, the employee is paying all of that its why a lot of the drivers realize they are not making much more, its not even less than minimum wage if they factor in all of their additional expenses thats why these businesses exist. The taxicab business has been around a long, long time i think if youre a gig economy investor, you have to at least consider the possibility that the entire Labor Relations aspect of this Business Model will change. I think thats really important. If it does change as you say it might and ive seen some politicians bringing up this issue related to the virus and the people struggling who were driving ubers whether it was part time or full time, you think its a net negative even if that changes the way the Company Operates after this . Will they be able to change consumers more if they do that that remains to be seen. Its a fundamentally unprofitable Business Model. Even when uber says well be adjusted ebitda positive, i think he said Fourth Quarter of 2020, not 202021. People got excited i think thats before share base composition whiensation which i half a billion dollars a year. Are they really profitable if they are not counting that if you look at grub hub, look at what they did. They promoted their restaurants where they urged the restaurants to offer big discounts and deliver through grub hub and in the fine print they told the restaurants that they would not take cuts in their cut this is an almost predatory Business Model for the food delivery guys, i think a lot of the independent restaurants which is where they make their money they dont make money in the mcdonalds and the burger kings. Youre still short grub one of my favorite positions. If grub hub doesnt make any money in first half of 2020, i would argue theyre probably not going to make money. They did give us a statement because what you do say about this so called so eed sou eed s support program is true. The price of the discount falls on the shoulders of the restaurants, not grub hub paying the discount as it were. They say since it launched, participants have seen 30 more orders on average. Because it is working well for those restaurants, grub hub is doubling down and encouraging more by giving 250 to each p participating restaurant we anticipate this funding will help generate 100 million in restaurant sales and costs to grub hub of 30 million we did ask for statement and thats how they did respond. They were caught out in it. I dont think they had that program originally they got lambasted by restaurants for doing that when they rolled it out good for them if they will try to give that back. It still gets to my problem which i dont think this is a profitable business. Where they are getting higher delivery through the fast food outlet, grub hub says they dont make any money in that business delivering burgers im woernndering on the other side if the world does change, o to some respects i think we all think it will some may have sounded outlandish in the suggestion of who would buy them if you look down the road and you do see the world and have it changes in some way, is a company like this more attractive to a bigger player because people will, in fact, want tlidelivered food, more ofn than going into a restaurant here is the kconundrum with that if you dont make money tlifring with the big changes and only making money delivering for independent restaurant and independent restaurant survive this, why will they not do this themselves and jst pay an agts si fee why do they need to give up 20 of the take to a third party this has been profitless prosperity for the restaurants in good times. Delivery guys can only do two deliveries an hour its literally a body shop you have to have more drivers to do tlideliveries thats why this will never be profitable were running through time so fast as often happens. Jenny, do you have a question for jim . Id love to circle back to one of your earlier comments where you said you took your shorts off in energy i was curious if youre exploring any purchases in the energy space and if theres any theme around that either Company Specific or micro industry where you are finding value and think there could be upside . Ive not been fan of scott nose for a long time i would tell your viewers avoid the frackers its not a business. Its a scheme. More money has gone into the ground than has come out we have been negative in that space since 2014 we remain negative its billion because its such a play on the commodity price even for the integrated i havent done any work on the pipeline so ill avoid that. I know some value people are noising around that sector even the integrated who will just had just iron clads Balance Sheets remember when exxon had ironclad, it doesnt anymore its a tough area. I think it will get tougher. Balance sheets have deteriorated then you have this whole model where its an accounting scam. They neverdepreciated the well fast enough. By in large, the stocks have come down so much. The risk reward was gone on the short side and better elsewhere. Im not a big fan of the industry jim, you have something for jim. If i can just start off by saying as a long equity manager, i have a lot of respect for short sellers. I know its not only what you do but it helps in price discovery. Its real money you have at risk if i believe in the position, one of the metrics i look at is what is the Short Interest if theres no accounting fraud, Short Interest can be very helpful. My question to you is were living in this world where every day something is coming out of the federal government where it gets enacted or not. One of the things that is being talked about is maybe we get an infrastructure bill. It wasnt talked about a week ago. The question is you have real money at risk on the short side and you know losses can be infinite if things go awry are you in any way overly worried about any given money that could be something coming out of the federal government that dramatically changes your inv inestment thesis on the short side what do you do about that . In our hedge fund were net long and in our Short Program for the most part we are compensating on how we do relative to the market ive always joked im in the Insurance Business i probably dont think im short any companies right now that would be directly benefitted by an infrastructure bill as for government involvement, affecting the stock market at this point in my career, im pretty much resigned to fact theres always going to be government involvement in the Financial Market it seems to be getting worse, not better as it relates to the government deciding to spend taxpayer money to support various Different Industries an infrastructure bill is probably over due. We always worry ant that kiboutd of stuff the government is increasingly of the belief it needs to rescue various industries i would point out, to go back to the airlines on monday i pointed out to clients that the four or five largest publicly traded airlines in the United States had a 50 billion dollar total market capitalization why are we talking about equity grants if Carnival Cruise lines can raise money in the conneequity markets why arent United Airlines and so on arent raising money. Why does the taxpayer need to do that thats just a fiphilosophical issue i have we always worry about that stuff. Can the government do something in an area that were negative on that would affect valuation and perception, sure youre not the only one, jim, who is looking at the current landscape of bail outs and rescue plans and taking issue with certain parts of them, obviously. Josh brown, i know you wanted to get in earlier and we are running out of time. What do you have the answer to why the airlines arent in the debt market might have to do with something they are discussing with omaha well find out i want to push back on uber. I dont disagree with everything you have said but here are three things the bulls would say back to you the first is unfortunately the pool of available labor for drivers are bigger given the unemployment numbers we have seen mass transit might be more at risk than uber coming out of the this how many people are thinking about how will i get to work from now on if i no longer want to be on commuter train, subway or bus they might benefit at the margins for middle class, upper middle class commuters the third thing is im not so sure there will be the political will to change the Employment Structure for Companies Like this and one example of that is they are now including selfemployed people in the Unemployment Insurance package thats coming from treasury sole props. They will treat them as though a company laid them off. It almost seems say to those three points that a bull might make on uber, specifically and i own the stock, by the way. Okay, well, so, in reverse order, i think that youre actually making my point i think that employers will be put into those pools i think that because we are covering these drivers and selfemployed people, as i think we should, i think that employers should be paying half of those costs, as, you know, msnbc pays half of scotts and kynikos pays half of mine, that the employee should shoulder the same amount whether hes quote unquote an independent contractor or not. So i think that the cost of doing business from a payroll point of view from the ubers and grubhubs of the world is going to go up now, skipping to the first part of your question, will the available number of employees increase well, if unemployment becomes structural, possibly but if unemployment becomes structural, ill cede that point to you, josh, and figure out that a lot of my other companies are going to have much bigger problems im assuming that the unemployment will not be structural and that we will get a bounce back. And therefore, labor rates are going to stay the same or maybe even rise. And so, i think that the unbridled capitalism, where everybody is going to fight for the minimum wage jobs, i think, could, in fact, see additional regulation not only on the payroll tax side, but in restrictive minimum wage and other things. So i think we just disagree on that front as to the second point, i think thats the interesting one you know, ive heard both sides of things. Im never going to take mass transit, because its just, you know, its too many people and too confined a space and then ive heard the i dont want to get in someones car, i dont know whos driving me i dont know what, you know, whether they cleaned the vehicle, whos been in it before im definitely less than 6 feet in that vehicle. And so, i dont know well have to see how that plays out. The problem, again, in this industry, though, is at the microlevel, its not economic. That these are body shops, quite literally. Let me i only have a couple of minutes left i want to ask you one more question about a stock, if you will, that youre very long. Ticker symbol is joe b. , as in joe biden. How is this all going to impact how is the virus going to impact his ability to campaign we already know, literally, we came on the air today, the Convention Announcement had come out that its being pushed back. How is that all going to impact him . What are your thoughts have you spoken with him recently i have not spoken with the Vice President very recently, but ive certainly spoken with his team and am in touch with the campaign almost every day, as you know im close to the Vice President. I think stepping back before we talk specifics there and i dont know a whole lot more than what the public knows, i would say that i think the political dynamic will change. And i suspect that as the virus subsides skproo s and or vanish, hopefully, i think that the discourse is going to get a lot sharper and the elbows will get a lot sharper. And theyve already been pretty sharp, as we know, right but i suspect when fear turns to anger, youre going to see a different dynamic in a lot of races around the country and thats why im kind of keeping my eye on the senate races, as well look, i you know, the Convention Im a milwaukee native i was looking forward to the convention for summer, and hitting up a few brewers game and eating some bratts, but wel see what happens there i think that there will be a stark dichotomy between the two candidates and the two parties, probably more than ever, coming out of this in the fall. I dont think the markets are focused on that right now. I dont think the markets are focused on the health care debate, which i think will kick back in, you know, in terms of our Health Care Economy and what should be provided and what shouldnt. I suspect the virus might even blur the lines between the parties on some of these issues, on things like employment and health care. And so, its going to be kind of a i think its going to be kind of a wild and woolly fall and well see what happens i think the Vice President has correctly been mindful of where we are and is not trying to make big political points on it and i think thats the right strategy. But i also think that the administration will be held to account when the time comes. And so thats i suspect the political rhetoric is going to heat up, postsummer thats about the best i could say. I really appreciate you being with us today, its been a while. And its always an interesting conversation, discussion, and debate jim, thank you so much im so happy that you invited me on. Guys, stay safe, everybody gosh, weve got to do a steak soon you, as well. You be well, stay safe, and stay healthy thats the kynikos founder guys, in the few minutes we have left, your takeaway from what you heard, rob listen, its more of a market takeaway its clear theres very limit certain certainty, economic and profit data are shifting underneath our feet the stats are very grim. Theyre in our face every day. I would say, dont let the worst case become the base case. Its smart to be prudent and cautious dont be paralyzed take advantage of what you know. Act on what you know take tax losses, focus on companies with competitive advantages, earnings stability, attractive valuations and do things that can better position yourself for when you come out of this and when markets start to look beyond, which is what jim said hes doing, 2020, and into 2021. And thats really how were approaching it and i think what investors should take away from this yeah, it really is. Its hard. Whether youre long or short, to analyze anything because you just dont know whats going to be wathat and when jenny . I think thats exactly right. Because we dont know how to analyze it right now, but what jim said was super important he said that basically were writing off 2020 and at this point, as an investor, you need to look out to 2021. 2020, no one knows how to analyze it, but that shouldnt let you that shouldnt make you freeze in your tracks and not do anything. You need to be proactive you need to look forward jim said something really important. He glances backward and looks forward. We need to do that make sure were well positioned and look forward and he made a really good point about fundamental analysis this is a time when fundamental analysis can totally shine, wherever whole sectors are threatened, we have the opportunity to dig in and find great things to buy right now, great things to invest in. I would say, write off 2020, look forward to 2021 its interesting, you are adding to the energy stocks, magellan and williams, at a time where he covered his the last of his energy sorts. Typically, those are pipeline companies. And when was going through what he wasnt willing to buy, he specifically said, i havent looked at pipelines, but i have heard that some Value Investors are starting to. Theres a lot of value there and a huge degree of immunity from the overall price of owil if we were going to do final trades, i was going to use those. Thats all good jim lebenthal, youve raised a little, a little, i emphasize, more cash. You now have 7 cash by virtue of trimming from where the relative outperformers. Relative Goldman Sachs and intel. And look, the 7 cash is my way of holding two incongruous thoughts in my head at the same time look to 2021 well come out of this and you should be looking at those companies you want to own in 2021 but at the same time, acknowledging that were in an incredibly heightened sense of uncertainty in terms of how long this shutdown lasts and what earnings estimates should be in that time of uncertainty, i think there will be a couple of bites at the apple in the next couple of weeks to buy stocks that im going to like in 2021 at prices cheaper than they are now. I appreciate you all being with e i want to touch the markets before we get out of here in the minute or so we have left. The major averages are holding on to all of their gains right now. The Dow Jones Industrial average is up 345 points thats 1 2 3 . You can see the nasdaq at the bottom of your screen there. Really that incredible move that we saw in oil, too, is worst focusing on. That after it was first our joe kernan coming on and saying that the president was looking at a 10 million barrel per day a cut in production from russia and saudi arabia, which the president then backed up in his own tweet. Its a little more nuanced than that, it may be, in terms of who is actually making moves on the production side, but you saw just an unbelievable move in the price of crude, which at the moment helped the overall market, as well. Let me remind you, too we have our special tonight. I will see you again at 7 00 eastern this evening as we focus on the path forward for individual Business Owners here on cnbc. We have a great lineup for you the profits marcus lemonis, sheryl sandberg, and kevin oleary. I will see you at 7 00 tonight kelly evans picks it up now. Scott, thanks hes been really working overtime covering these markets and this economy in turmoil. Stocks are back in rally mode right now, led this time by a massive jump in oil. Were up currently 350, for some solid gains across the board right now. I mentioned crude. That is going to be the huge story of the day and it is the driver of the action right now, it is up 25 . The Energy Sector is up nearly 10 . All of this after the president told cnbc th