Over much of the past three decades, ive been an investor. [applause] the highest calling of mankind, ive often thought, was private equity. [laughter] and then i started interviewing. I watched your interviews, so i know how to do some interviewing. [laughter] ive learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. Jeff i asked him how much he wanted. He said 250. I said fine. I didnt negotiate with him. I did no due diligence. David i have something i would like to sell. [laughter] and how they stay there. You dont feel inadequate now because being only the second wealthiest man in the world, is that right . [laughter] one of the most admired, respected and busiest Global Leaders in the world is mark carney. He served for a number of years as the governor of the bank of canada. For a number of additional years as the governor of the bank of england. He currently serves as a special u. N. Envoy for climate finance. He also chairs Brookfield Asset Management. I had a chance to sit down with mark, recently, to talk about how he does these things so well. Mark has been the bank of canada governor. The governor of the bank of england. Has anybody ever been the governor of two Central Banks in two Different Countries . Mark i dont think so. David in addition to that, you are also the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management and you are the new chairman of bloomberg. So, you obviously like b. Bank of canada, bank of england, bloomberg and brookfield but there is a story in the latest addition of a canadian newspaper, two days ago, saying you might also be the next Prime Minister of canada. Any interest in that . Mark in the story . Not in the story, per se. It is interesting. You say the same thing over and over, but it gets heard differently in different contexts. I think that story is more an indication of the current environment in canada. David in other words, you would not be uninterested in that. Mark i am interested that we have an effective Prime Minister in canada. David Prime Minister trudeau, you know him. Mark i know him well. David we will take that as maybe. So i will not pursue that anymore. [laughter] let me ask you. As the bank of england governor and as the bank of canada governor, do you think the Central Banks recently figured out inflation was more serious than it was too late, or do you think they recognized early on it was going to be serious and they did not do enough about it . Mark i think in hindsight, they realized it too late. They were operating under the old paradigm. It was an issue of not enough demand, and that is something that works well, generally, until you have a bunch of supply shocks. We had a covid supply shock. We had an energy shock. We had shocks with supply chains, geopolitics. All of which meant there was more than transitory inflation. It took a while for Central Banks to fully recognize that and start to respond. David do you think they have done enough and do you see anymore rate increases likely to come about . There are many people in the market who think another rate increase in the United States is likely. What do you think about that . Mark for the first part of the question, i think once the fed started to move, it did respond in a very effective manner. It consistently surprised people with how resolute it was and what it was prepared to do. It recognized the bigger risk was inflation stayed high or worsened. And has put us in a position, put the u. S. In a position, where inflation is increasingly under control. Not totally under control. That gets to the second part of your question. If i have to choose a camp, i would be in a camp of i expect there will be a bit more tightening by the fed. So, probably an additional rate increase this year. What is as important, in fact more important, is the path of policy over the course of the next 12 to 18 months. It is finally beginning to be recognized. It has been a painful few weeks for some of the market in getting this recognition. It is not just about where the rate is today. It is not just about the peak but about the path. And the path of rates, and i have been of this view for a while, higher for longer in order to ensure policy is adequately tied to bring inflation back to 2 . David when i was in the white house as a young man, we were running for reelection under jimmy carter. The head of the inflation effort was a man named fred kohn, a former cornell professor. He went to the White House Briefing room and said i think we are going to have a recession. Carter hauled him into the oval office and said, fred, i am running for reelection. Do not use the r word. It scares people. Fred said, what am i supposed to do . I have to be honest. Be honest. Dont use the r word. He used the word banana as a substitute for recession. Figuring reporters would not put that into the headline. [laughter] so are we heading into a banana or do you think we are not going into a banana . Mark i think the likelihood of banana has gone down to be clear. The fed has done quite a masterful job. Other things have helped. If you look at and you asked me a moment ago, rightly, about unemployment and getting back to 2 . What has happened in the u. S. Almost uniquely is there has not been a sharp rise in unemployment. There has been a fall in vacancies. Something that has not happened in the past but this cycle is quite different than any previous cycle. The fed has been able to ease, thus far, the pressure in the labor market by reducing vacancies as opposed to increasing unemployment. That plus other aspects of the resilience we have seen in the u. S. Economy makes recession less likely because the reality is, if you get half a percent or a full percent, historically, any time the Unemployment Rate in the u. S. Has risen by at least half a percent, there has been a recession. You get the compounding effect. That has not happened. So the probability has gone down, but there is still lots david when you are head of the central bank in canada, do you refer a lot to what the u. S. Is doing or do you say we are going to do what we want to do and we dont care what the u. S. Is going to do . Do you consult a lot . Mark we obsess about the u. S. , is the short answer, because it is the most impactful external factor for the canadian economy. There are also some of the things that drive growth in the United States that are common factors that drive growth in canada. David lets talk about your background. Where did you grow in canada . Where were you born . Mark i was born in fort smith in the northwest territories. The arctic. David the northwest territories. That is very far up. Mark it is very far up. Emphasis on the north. David what were your parents doing there . Mark my parents were teachers. David did you ever say to them that is pretty far up north to be living . Did they ever move closer . [laughter] mark they moved. It is a two hour flight south to edmonton. David did you grow up in edmonton . Mark i grew up in edmonton. David you were a hockey player too. Mark yes. David you played hockey at harvard . Is that right . Mark i didish. I opened the gate. I was a goalie. I opened the gate for a lot of good players. David were you a star at harvard in the hockey world . Mark [laughter] i was very good at opening the gate. David you never considered going to the nhl . Mark i considered it. [laughter] the nhl did not consider it. They needed me in some administrative role. David after you graduated, you went to do Something Like investment banking. You went to Goldman Sachs. Mark i went to Goldman Sachs in london in 1988. David what did you do there . Mark i worked in the credit department. Credit analysis, which was probably the best thing i could have done because you build up a fundamental skill. David many people go to goldman after college. They get an mba. You decided not to get an mba. You decided to get a phd in economics. Why did you want a phd in economics . Mark i thought that at some point i would work in Public Policy and it would be more useful. I toyed a bit with being an academic. My father ended up being a professor. I toyed with that a bit. David you did this at oxford. Why didnt you do this in the United States or canada . Mark to be honest, you could do a phd at oxford in three years. As opposed to if you are in the u. S. System as a doctorate student, you spend a huge amount of time teaching. Which is great if you want to be an academic. If you want the academic training, though, it needs the average time is david when you were at oxford, you also played hockey, right . Mark i did. I was a star. [laughter] david so you stayed at goldman for how many years . Mark in total, 13 years at goldman but in total almost 10 years. David the highest level you reached was to be a managing director . Mark a managing director. David why did you leave goldman . Some people think it is the greatest thing in the world. Why did you go back to canada . Mark i had an opportunity to be Deputy Governor at bank of canada. I always had an interest in Public Policy. It was a unique opportunity. I had huge respect for the guy who was governor at the time, david dodge. David how would they have heard of you . You are an investment banker in goldman. Mark they put an ad in the paper and i applied. David they put an ad in the paper and you responded . Wow. That is how you got a job. Ok. Mark that is the idea. David is that how you got to be the governor as well . Mark [laughter] they knew me. For the governor, as well. That has become the norm now. Central banks do put ads. David you went to the finance mark i went to the finance department and i david then you became the governor. And that was an easy time because there was no recession. The economy was going well . Mark basically. I remember saying to diana, my wife we had young kids. This job. You make eight decisions a year. You know exactly when you make those decisions. Worklife balance was going to work great. Two weeks after i started, bear stearns failed. David ultimately, you finished after how many years were you there . Mark just under six. David you step down and say i am going to make money at Goldman Sachs . Mark i did not step down. I was approached by the u. K. Government to become governor of the bank of england. David is that like illegal poaching . They are going to take a central banker from another country, did you think that was unusual . Mark it was unusual. It was an unusual time. Technically, the head of state Queen Elizabeth is the same. It is intercompany transfer. [laughter] david when you are head of the central bank of canada, do you get your signature on the currency . Mark yes. David wow. That is pretty nice. If you saw somebody had a dollar bill, do you say to somebody, that is my signature . Do you ever tell them that . Mark no. David ok. You get offered to be the head of the central bank of england. Did you say yes right away . Mark i did not. I turned it down a few times. It was a rolling conversation over the course of 2012. I then took the job. David did it for about eight years . Mark just under. David when you are head of the central bank of england, does the queen call you for advice or does she ever ask you anything . Did you ever meet the queen . Mark i did have a few audiences. David the Prime Minister, he or she does not appoint you. Mark you are appointed by the sovereign. David you report to the board of governors, i assume. Mark you report to the british people, really, through parliament. That is the accountability. You can only be removed for incapacity and that david did you enjoy that job . Mark job security. Did i enjoy that . I did. It was sometimes, in the thick of it, it does not feel enjoyable, but it was incredibly challenging. There was a lot going on which is the reason why an outsider came in. I did enjoy it. David was it more fun to be head of the central bank of canada or head of the central bank of england . Mark the challenges were much greater in the u. K. You had an institution that had been totally transformed. You had a Financial System that was at the epicenter of the problems and had to be fixed. You had the elements of brexit what ultimately was brexit, the scottish referendum. You had a big management challenge. David you enjoyed it . Mark i enjoyed it. David you would recommend that job to anybody who gets offered it . Mark i would recommend it. We go back five years ago. Clean energy investment. That is wind, solar, Battery Storage and ev charging. 5 billion worldwide spent. Last year, 1. 2 trillion. This year, 1. 8 trillion. That is 1. 6 times what we are spending on conventional energy investment. David not too long from now the next meeting of cop will occur. I guess it is in abu dhabi or dubai. I assume you will be there as a special envoy. The last meeting did not seem to make a lot of progress. What kind of progress do you think will be made this time . Will we get closer to getting to the target goals you have . Mark lets back up for one second. If we go to the paris cop seven years ago, the world was headed toward 3. 5 degrees warming by the end of the century. The iea came out last week and says on current policies, what actually is happening, we are heading to 2. 4 degrees. There has been quite a bit of progress. It is not enough. The goal is to be less than two, but to be clear, in terms of the scale of investment, we are making progress. This cop and a full credit to the presidency of the cop, the united arab emirates, is very focused on commercial solutions to Climate Change. First and foremost, an objective is to get the major oilproducing countries and companies to commit to zero methane by 2030, doubling the efficiency of producing and transporting oil and gas. David so, you stepped down from the central bank of england and you become the special envoy and now, you are the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management and now, to be the chairman of bloomberg. Mark yes. David what is Brookfield Asset Management . Mark Brookfield Asset Management and brookfield as a whole is one of the Worlds Largest alternative asset managers. The Asset Management business is the capital light bit so this is where the 1200 plus investment professionals at brookfield reside. We oversee the investments that have 200,000 operating professionals. It is a business that invests effectively in the backbone of the Global Economy so that means Renewable Power. One of the largest operators of Renewable Power. Over 160 gigawatts of Renewable Power owned, operated and developed. One of the largest Real Estate Investors in the world. One of the pioneers, if not the pioneers, of infrastructure as an asset class. 160 billion under management in infrastructure and that is everything from Energy Infrastructure to data infrastructure. Big private equity business and a large private credit business. David you have many jobs currently. You are not the head of the central bank of england anymore or canada, but among other things, you are the special advisor to the u. N. Mark special envoy. David on Climate Change. Mark that is correct. On Climate Action and finance. David what does that mean . Are you telling people in each country they should go more electric or dont burn as much oil . Or what . Mark it is really about if there is a common theme to my career, it is working at the intersection of Public Policy and private markets. A lot of that in central banking, that is what you are doing. That is what i am doing as this special envoy. Really, it is to organize the private Financial System to be ready for Climate Change. Not just the physical impacts of Climate Change, but to be part of the solution to be able to provide capital, get capital to where it is needed. To get omissions down. David in this position, which i assume is an unpaid position, people are saying youre the special envoy for Climate Action. You cannot fly in a private plane, so easily, i guess. Do you take Public Transportation or can you drive your own car if it is an oil and gas car . Mark it might not surprise you, i have an electric car, as you would expect. Most of the time that is charged in quebec. I live just on the border with quebec. David are you conscious people are looking at you as the special envoy saying he is using too much he has too big a Carbon Footprint . Mark people will make that if they dont want to confront the tough issues around Climate Change, the big blocks of what is actually going to make a difference. They will go to anything you are wearing. There is plastic on my watch strap and therefore there is an element of hydrocarbon in that. David if you have an oil and Gas Investment that comes to the Investment Committee and you are the special envoy, do you have to recuse yourself . Mark we have a very clear approach at brookfield. As i say, we are one of the Largest Renewable Energy providers and we are systematically going through our assets to ensure that, as much as possible, they have Business Plans that are consistent with the transition toward net zero. And we do that, first and foremost, from a fiduciary perspective. We see being low carbon or lowering your Carbon Footprint, to put it that way, as one of the fundamental drivers of value in market and i have to say we are being proven right. We know in real time the mapping of the temperature increase to the extreme weather events is worse than we thought 10 years ago. The goal even though the goal is getting tougher to get, it is becoming more important to get there. The third thing we know is mapping you can map specific actions to specific Emission Reductions and it can become very clear whether you are making a difference on that. What we have seen i will make two points on that, if i may. One is that we go back five years ago, clean energy investments, so that is wind, solar, Battery Storage and ev charging. 500 billion, worldwide dollars spent. Last year, 1. 2 trillion. This year, 1. 8 trillion. That is 1. 6 times what we are spending on conventional energy investment. That is starting to move as you can see, in real time, what is happening in terms of emission reduction. From a financial where at bloomberg, talking about brookfield as well, from a financial perspective, the numbers are huge in terms of the action in clean energy. Secondly, the Information Set around whether or not does not matter what the industry is, could be tech. The information about what your Carbon Footprint is today and where it is going is exploding. You can tell who is part of the solution and who is part of the problem. That is driving value. David some of the emerging Market Countries say you guys in the United States and western europe, you guys had a century to pollute as much as you wanted. Now youre asking us as we are emerging to give away the right to use some of the same kind of fuels that you use. And it is not fair. What do you respond to that . Mark it is not fair. Unfortunately, the disproportionate impacts of Climate Change will also fall on those same countries. Africa, 17 of the worlds people. 3 of the worlds emissions. But hundreds of millions of people will be in uninhabitable climate if we dont get this on time. We have to get together and deal with it, first point. The second is given the progress that has been made in the economics of wind, Solar Storage particularly, they are becoming the low Cost Solutions for those countries. David you have an electric car. You said you drive an electric car, right . Some people say electric cars are not perfect in the sense that to get the minerals you need for some of their batteries. For example, you have to do a lot of mining for things and that is not great for the environment either. But on the whole, you would say electric vehicles are infinitely better than carbon. Mark we are at bloomberg and i can reference bnf research. They actually show, depending on where you are, where the crossover point is that your electric car that impacts the environment. Where it is better than internal Combustion Engine cars. If you are in a place like canada, where you have a lot of clean power, 85 of our power is clean emission in canada, the crossover is about 18 months. Even if you are in china where you have a lot of coal, it is i will have to check the number but it is around five years. That includes the embedded carbon from all of those processes. David for somebody watching who says, i would like to be like mark carney. Successful at everything he has touched, maybe apart from hockey. What was it . Hard work, good genes, just smarter than everybody else . Is it luck . What do you think it is that enables you to do all these things . And you are still a young man by my standards. You are 58 years old. That is a teenager to me. What do you think made this possible . Mark luck is a huge element of it, without question. You make your own luck to some extent if you are doing things you like and you care about so you are around opportunities. I would not have been governor of the bank of england if i had not wanted to be in Public Policy and was the governor of the bank of canada, for example. At least in my experience maybe with my genes or whatever, you cannot get away from hard work. Explore endless design possibilities. To find your personal style. Endless hardie® siding colors. Textures and styles. Its possible. With james hardie™. Nice footwork. Its possible. Man, youre lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. Now you can stream all your games like its nothing. Yes [ cheers ] yeah woho running up and down that field looks tough. Its a pitch. Get way more into what youre into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. Jackie the rise of Artificial Intelligence is raising fresh fears about technologys role in distorting the truth. 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