For nevada, they are also threatening legal action in pennsylvania, georgia, and other battleground states. We should note that in the battleground state of pennsylvania, they are saying, the trump companion, they have victory by allowing poll watchers to be participating in these votes that are being counted. Either way, when i speak to sources on both joe bidens campaign and President Trumps campaign, both sides are saying they feel confident they will win. There are no more scheduled Public Events for President Trump later today. We are anticipating we will hear from President Trump on camera. Thatd that, we should note another state the Trump Campaign says they would like to see reversed is arizona. Where phoenixy, is located, those results anticipated in the evening hours, new york time. Bottomline, that is where things stand. There will become as you mentioned, as steady inflow of data, including in this hour in nevada throughout the day. David the subject of that pennsylvania victory, as President Trumps Campaign Says, we will have rebecca green on in a few minutes. Lets go back to nevada. We got maricopa county, arizona. Talk to us about clark county, nevada. Clark county is where two thirds of the states votes come in. Based on demographics or this is where las vegas is. This is an area that has seen a demographic shift in recent years, an increase in hispanic votes. We should also note how clark county has been absolutely ravaged by the economic calamity that has been brought on by the id19 pandemic tourism line pandemic. Tourism, the entertainment has really been impacted. Where unemployment is highest right now in the u. S. The final point interns and in terms of the political shape, this is harry reid versus sheldon adelson. There is a lot of nevada politics. Valda politics can be very volatile nevada politics can be very volatile. David please stay with us. Meantime, we want to bring in rebecca green. As the rays narrows, the losses seem to multiply with the Trump Campaign pursuing actions in michigan, pennsylvania and georgia. To take us through that, we welcome rebecca green of William Mary Law School. Thank you for being with us. Give us your take on where we are. Pennsylvania, an announcement a short time ago from the Trump Campaign, they think they have a major victory. People could go in within six feet to monitor the vets. Several of the claims the Trump Campaign are bringing relate to transparency measures. Election observers being able to watch the voting process unfold. All states have laws that allow members of given, states have different laws , but allow someday, either already representatives are members of the public to observe the vote counting process per that is to ensure the public can oversee ohtani process. That is to ensure the public and oversee the boat counting process. Mike i think it would be appropriate for members about polities both parities. Im glad to see it when courts assist campaigns in ensuring transparency laws are followed. It is a plan for everyone to the more transparent the process, the more confident people are in the outcome. Another piece of news, the u. K. Telling people arriving from germany and sweden to quarantine. Lets come back, transparency is hard it is hard to be against transparency. I have heard a lot of accusations of fraud coming out of the Trump Campaign pared i do not think i have heard that out of the Biden Campaign. Instances on specific on the fraud they are alleging. Would it be normal to have an affidavit to say we have seen fraud . Can make allegations, but unless you have hard evidence of an issue, a do not think it is going to get far in court. Evidence ofd to see it, it is not something you can just claim broadly and get on the where on get anywhere on it. David we want our observers to make sure there are no shenanigans, fraud or otherwise. There is also the question of what one could call late ballots. Absentee ballots that are postmarked by election day, but arrive later. We have that issue in pennsylvania and north carolina, which has been litigated. The question is, whether or not in pennsylvania, the States Supreme Court can authorize the state to accept ballots postmarked by election day, but returned after. The question there is whether were not the state Supreme Court has authority to make that kind of change. That only state legislatures can do that. That could certainly play out. That is something the Supreme Court has indicated it is thinking about. N though it denied pennsylvania Supreme Court decision. With all of these cases, what is going to matter is whether or is that issue appeared i am assuming that once the word went out, and i know both campaigns were pressing absent ballots the number of may be quite small. It depends on the number of ballots in pennsylvania that may not be enough to turn a go outcome. It is possible that the numbers the Supreme Court will find, the in thehave interest deadline at the state Supreme Court. Even if they did agree that the Supreme Court lacked authority to change that deadline, that may not necessarily mean those words would be invalidated. David this is a terribly important point, the determinative number of votes. Even if there is a case that has merit in the pensive into strangers ration the pennsylvania situation, it does not count unless the number of votes that came in after the election postmarked before were enough to make a difference in pennsylvania. That is potentially different from 2000 in busch week or when we all knew bush versus gore. All of these lawsuits being filed, whether or not they have merit, whether or not Election Officials had failed to follow the law, as some are alleging, none of that will matter if the vote totals do not show that disputed ballots would impact the outcome. Litigationow what matters until we know the counts are certified. Writinge have a viewer in, saying when it comes to a recount, now there is talk of recount in wisconsin, how often do recounts work . How many votes get switched . 1000, 100 thousand, one million . Published an amazing study that looked at the total changes were as the result of recounts. It is very small. It is very rare. It is rare that a recount would overturn the result. Second, if there is a vote swing, it is typically in the hundreds. Not at all in the thousands or hundreds of thousands. It would depend on what the margins are. In the bush versus gore situation, 537 vote spread, the count could be consequential. Behind by 40,000 votes or whatever, i do not you can ask for a refund at a recount in different states have different laws, but it is hard to make that spread make a bed spread. David thank you so much. Rebecca green, William Mary Law School professor. Coming up, the state at the race of pennsylvania where the former governor ed Rendell Pearl later this hour, the founder and chairman of equity Group Partners investments ways in on what the investment could mean with the election could mean for the economy. David this is balance of power. We are getting a few new numbers from nevada, that critical state. Former Vice President joe biden has increased his lead by 5000 votes. Last0 came in during the we got. There are more to come. We are expecting those to come in throughout the hour, and maybe beyond. Former vice turn to president joe bidens campaign. He has been very careful not take not to declare victory. We welcome congressional reporter emily wilkins, covering the Biden Campaign at its headquarters in wilmington, delaware appeared welcome. It is great to have you with us. What is the spirit right now among the campaign . Biden Campaign Says this morning there positive, but urging everyone to wait. We are still looking for numbers to come in from nevada, arizona, georgia, pennsylvania. The Biden Campaign is optimistics optimistic about their chances. David they must be worried about something. What do they worry about . We are seeing arizona, which callp and fox news did arizona for biden. Last night, we saw the margin between by demand trump close a little bit. We are waiting a lot of we are waiting for a lot of ballots to cover maricopa county. Campaign saying they are still confident they will see a boost when it comes to arizona. That is one place where bidens lead is shrinking. David great reporting for the Biden Campaign. Andime, apart from arizona nevada, pennsylvania remains a key element in this president ial contest. When it comes to the keystone state, there is no one who knows it better than ed red nail, dust ed rendell, special counsel. Welcome. Where you think the pennsylvania race is right now . I think joe biden is going to win. [indiscernible] re almost all mail thats all mail votes. The male vote has been running 73 biden. If that holds up, [indiscernible] it will be a substantial win. Probably twice the margin donald trump had in 2016. What is your take on these lawsuits . We had an announcement from the Trump Campaign with one appellate judge saying you have to let those poll watchers come and observe. The poll watchers behave themselves come i do not think there is any problem. The people who do the counting, they are civic euros. Some of them volunteer their time, some of them are paid very little. They are there under pressure. And are republicans democrats. They are ordinary citizens who care about the democratic process. You can have anybody in the world watching them, it does not bother me. It is not going to change a thing. As long as the poll watchers behave themselves. Do not yell, do not shout. Foot if you get an 80,000 majority come as you predict, what is that due to the ballots received after they were postmarked after election day. Does that remain viable . That is something where President Trump has intervened. They wouldnt bother to count it because a relevant becomes pair lets move forward. If that is correct, then by most corrections, former Vice President joe biden will be the next president. The question of the senate hangs in the balance. What do you think the senate lies . I think the democrats are going to pick up one or two seats, not enough to take control. It looks like there will be two runoff elections in georgia because neither of the candidates, neither of the the reason there are two is because one senator stepped down. There are two elections in georgia. Neither one is the winner. Runoffs going to be a election january 5. If democrats were to take both of those senate seats, i think they would take control if joe biden becomes president. That is a long shot. Georgia looks like it is up. Biden may win it. Without thes elections would be over by thanksgiving, it may be a christmas threat that keeps giving a Christmas Gift that keeps giving in january. David what about the house races . A lot of people were surprised the democrats lost several seats. I am one of those people. Donald trump does one thing very well, he motivates people to get out and vote. This turnout was exceptional. Without it, he would have been a blue wave. It was not good enough to win, but it was spectacular in its own right. Lets look forward. I will i do not want to tempt fate, but lets assume it comes at the way it looks like, President Biden and quite possibly republican senator. What does that mean for democratic policies . Joe bidens policies . Wood means joe has to do what i think he does best, hit people get people to cooperate. The problems in this country, take one big problem, infrastructure. Us in 2016p promise he would have a massive infrastructure bill that would fix the country get millions and work. He never put a bill in. Joe biden i believe it is one of the first things he is going to do. Now coming for structures think of his show an issue that does not break on partisan lines. Everyone is for infrastructure. Youve got to find a way to fund it, but joe biden, that is his strength. He can get republicans to work with him. Lindsey graham, a real partisan has said joe biden is one of the best human beings he has ever met. I think joe has the capacity to do with to do what maybe nobody else has done, bring us together not only as a nation, but in washington. Not everything is going to be see somebut we will stuff get done. What about fiscal stimulus . There was a lot of backandforth over the summer. Is there hope in the lameduck session . What does that look like next year if it cant . Bidenpresident elect tells them he is going to be for corona robust stimulus and then theyre just and then their decision is to wait till january 20 to start working, nor do they start working now and pass it anyway . Knewdent trump, even if he he was to feed it, would support big stimulus if congress sent it to him. Fooling,e way, no americans need stimulus now now. Now. Now. There was an issue in the media, there are progressive elements and more conservative moderates. Does a Majority Senate potentially help President Biden if he gets elected . It takes that issue a bit off the table. It does, but for the longrange here, we have got to get together. About the use of income i was asked by some of the standards people the sanders people to work on a project with them, to raise money for a project to go into four states where we had terrific candidates and try to couldmoney so that we communicate with progressive voters. After working 10 weeks with a realtalented , who is a conservative, she and i would argue over policy, but we made phone calls and realized if gressives want to dissuade devote for the candidates. Understand,ressives and we moderates should understand. The only way we are going to advance as a party and a country is to work together. Find common ground. David always a treat to have you with us for thank you for your time. Ed rendell, former governor of pennsylvania. This is balance of power. David this is balance of power. Time for a check of the markets as stocks continue their postelection rally. A lot of green around the world. The postelection rally circled the globe. We saw asian stocks higher. European stocks close. In the u. S. , the narrative is now gridlocked. You look at the nasdaq 100, it is on course for the best week since april, which is after the pandemic selloff. U. S. Extending its declines, sinking to 2. 5 year lows. Courtesies jor currencies. It divided government manes saying goodbye to stimulus which means the pet is the only game in town supporting the economy. I feel like were forgetting something. Let me check. Xfinity home gives you peace of mind from anywhere with professionally monitored Home Security built around you. No, i think were good. Good. So when youre away, you dont have to worry. The tent. We forgot. The tent. Except about that. Xfinity home. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Hey look, i found the tent get xfinity home with no Term Contract required. Click or call today. David this is balance of power on Bloomberg Television and radio. Im david westin. Bloomberg first word news, we go to mark crumpton. Mark the fight for the white house is heating up. President Trumps Campaign has filed electionrelated lawsuits in michigan, pennsylvania, and the georgia. And intends to do so in nevada. The Biden Campaign is, that lyrical theater. As it stands right now, mr. Biden has 253 electoral votes, mr. Trump, 213. Chancellor of the exchequer reversed course today in remarks to the house of commons. Given this significant uncertainty, a worsening economic backdrop and the need to get people and businesses security through the winter, i believe it is right to go further. So we can announce today that the furlough scheme will not be extended for one month, it will be extended until the end of march. Mark four weeks, he had argued the program should and on october 31. The second wave of the coronavirus has group u. K. , exceeding even the deepest projections of government scientists. France is stepping up its border controls after a series of terror attacks in recent weeks. President macron says he will double the number of police and troops in charge of border control. On fightingcus illegal immigration and smuggling activities. President macron revert to last weeks attack at a church in nice that killed three people. Police say the suspect is a tunisian who traveled through italy on his way to france. Global news 24 hours a day, onair, and on quicktake by bloomberg, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. Im mark crumpton. This is bloomberg. Shrewdwhen it comes to investors, sam zell is in the pantheon. Over a career of contrary and moves, he has made money on Everything Real Estate to waste management. Renting outng apartments after law school, he is now the chairman of equity group investments. Thank you for being with us. There is so much to talk about but lets start with the immediate david we are in the middle immediate. We are in the middle of an some indications about where this will end up. Where are the opportunities . You always find the opportunities. Sam im not sure i know the answer quite yet as to what the opportunities are. Frankly,he results, for the country to basically come out even as opposed to a way of going the other way is kind of a reflection of how lucky we always somehow turn out to be. Election, with perhaps a president like joe on , who is focused compromises and might be a very positive outcome for a country going forward, which would translate into a commercial environment activity david if in fact Vice President biden is elected and we dont have four more years of donald trump, are you concerned about deregulation, further tax cuts . I think the Obama Administration was probably the most regulated administration we have ever had. Years ofhe first four trump probably brought a lot of those regulations back to, lets say, equilibrium. I would expect a Biden Administration would be more proregulation but perhaps less so than what occurred in the obama years. David we have had a rough year pandemicfair to say, a , the biggest for 100 years, severe economic downturn in the course of that, civil disturbances around the country. What has this done specifically in the real estate area . You are known for how astute you are in real estate. What has this done to real estate as an investment . Obviously, we have seen tremendous increase in the interest in suburban locations. We are probably among the largest Central Business district owners of residential in the country. Particularly we see it in new york and San Francisco. Significant reduction in demand. In new york, it is more a question of price. As prices have come down, demand has increased. In San Francisco, you have an environment that is more difficult. Effect, i think that is putting people who previously thought for a place to live in San Francisco being able to work from a more remote location. Thisps you could argue is certainly done to increase the pace of conversion to etail. Retail on the net. January 2021 is going to be equal to where we thought we would be in 2025. Pandemic has the certainly accelerated the movement, increase in retail online. There is a lot of discussion today about change in Office Activity going forward, higher and higher percentage of offices operating remotely. I am pretty skeptical of that. I tend to believe that we are social animals, that weeper warm best when we are stimulated by other human beings. In nowhere,emote iowa, but at 5 00 there is nowhere to go, as opposed to new york, chicago, San Francisco. At the same time, we have seen an explosion in distribution real estate. Probably the best performing part of real estate today, warning,i would be saying that this is probably the least sophisticated form of real estate creation. Therefore, the barrier to access is the least in that area. Then you can look at hospitality. Hospitality is looking at a catastrophe, the likes which it has never seen. It lived through 9 11, the great recession, but it has never lived through a period where demand has shut down to the level it currently is. Just like a lot of small businesses, restaurants, they may not reopen. At the same time, we will see a real attrition in the number of hotels functioning going forward. Hotels are unique forms of real estate. They have very, very high minimum operating costs. Therefore, leaving the door open at 70 occupancy is really pretty awful. Thesame time, we country is not doing anywhere near as badly as the newspapers are headlining. Consequently, the overall demand factors are going to help the country move forward accordingly. Look at singlefamily homes. It is a form of real estate that has gone from slow market to very rapid. Obviously, the fact that we are dealing with Interest Rates as low as they have ever been is pretty significant. David we will talk about Interest Rates coming up in our next segment. Sam zell will stay with us to talk about the economy and the fed. A few more votes have come in in nevada. Ae biden has now about 9000vote lead. This is balance of power on Bloomberg Television and radio. David this is balance of power on Bloomberg Television and radio. Im david westin. Election is far from the only Important News this week. We are one hour away from a decision from the federal reserve. Tomorrow, we will get jobs numbers for the month of october. Sam zell is with us, and we are now joined by michael mckee. You mentioned low Interest Rate before we went to break. Talk about what that has done to you as an investor. Do you expect the fed to keep it down around, above zero . Sam it is hard for me to imagine that the fed has a choice, at the rate that we are creating debt, servicing the debt is becoming a bigger future risk. For many years, the average rate was 5. 6 . If the government had to pay t. 6 on the ebt el deb outstanding today, we wouldnt have a chance. The fed doesnt have a choice. Although, in my opinion, the overall activity level in the economy is better than people expect, are giving credit. Just like this past week, the numbers on manufacturing showed a significant recovery. Business speaking, activity is better. As an investor, what do you see in terms of demand for credit . The fed can lower the cost of credit, not significantly at this point, but we are not seeing much takeup for their lending programs, like main street. All kinds ofy has shortages of patience. Fit had ayou, if the policy for providing cash flow to close hotels, there would be unlimited demand. Binary economy a at the moment where parts of it like airlines, tourism, travel, restaurants are suffering very significantly, and the rest of the economy is not suffering. Are you at a point where you have to offer incentives to people in order to fill up office space that you own, are you negotiating with people . Theres a lot of concern what will happen at the end of the year when rates usually reset. We are no longer in the office business, thank god. But we are still very much in the residential side. There is no question, particularly in what i would softest two soffits markets, new york, San Francisco, whether it is lease extensions with other considerations, the net effect is the downside has been a rentction in the net generated. The good news in the new york market, as prices have come down, the number of showings have gone up. The leasing and occupancy pays have increased accordingly. That is a functioning of the fact that this is forcing repricing to an extent. A lot of that repricing and demand change is all very convenient when everyone can work remote. I dont see that occur for much longer. David you have mentioned that you think the economy is stronger than you might see in the headlines, newspaper, or Cable Television programs. At the same time, it is hurting some people disproportionately. We still have 10. 5 Million People who dont have jobs who did before. What do we need to do to address that issue . What about the socalled fiscal stimulus fourth round . Clear think it is quite that some additional stimulus would be very helpful, and i would certainly be very supportive of that. Time, turning the demand for stimulus into an literally solving other states and cities that in the wayrofligate they spend their capital is very unappetizing. To ang as the results lead divided government, i think the restraint will be there. Particularly areas of extreme hurt. If you are the Airline Business today, you are talking about 20 of the demand that previously existed. In the restaurant business, even when occupancy is banned inside, your chances to breakeven are very little. If it is limited to 25 , you have a difficult chance of making it economically viable. I think what is needed is a bridge that will get us through the end of covid, particularly focused on those arenas that are taking the most amount of pain. Mike you said that you are concerned about the level of debt out there but you are also suggesting that we do more stimulus. How close are we to a Tipping Point where debt becomes an issue . As long as the fed keeps rates at zero, can we do whatever we want . Sam i dont think we can do whatever we want. I believe the ultimate risk here is the u. S. Dollar is the reserve currency of the world. It may not happen over a slow time but all of a sudden, when there are not the bids for the d ebt that our country wants to sell. We are not there yet, but close enough that im worried about it. David thank you so much to sam zell. He will be staying with us. Thanks also to michael mckee. Stay tuned for special coverage of the fed decision coming up at 2 00 eastern time today. This is balance of power on Bloomberg Television and radio. David this is balance of power on Bloomberg Television and radio. Im david westin. Big issues weighing in the balance between a democrat in the white house and a republican is over our National Policy of energy. Sam zell is still with us. We welcome alix steel. Before we get to energy, lets talk generally how you are investing these days. Spacs almost seemed to be a fad. I know you are in that as well as private equity. How are you looking at investing right now . Sam we are 52 days into our spac. Itdid it because we thought was an attractive way to sequester capital, provide an opportunity for a combination of our judgment and capital in creating a public company. Yes, there are a lot of spacs out there. The success ratio is indicative of the fact that there are too many opportunities. Just another arrow in the quiver. It will end up financing a lot of transactions, particularly in the area of familyowned businesses looking for monetization. Have beent of spacs energy. That was the fad a couple years ago, and a lot of them did not do well. What is your take on that, are there opportunities being missed . The Energy Environment is very treacherous right now. We have been an investor in energy or however long i can for however long i can remember. I dont remember a period as atile as this, and as such the one thing energy was was stable. With the price of oil and gas moving back and forth the way it has been, that stability is gone. That makes it a very treacherous place to play. Whether or not the current pricing, getting paid for the risk, thats the question. Alex fair enough, but we have seen a lot of m a in the space ive been waiting for about four years. I spoke to the citigroup chairman about institutional clients groups, and this is what he had to say. A number of those companies will have trouble getting their cost of cap total, being able to fund themselves, especially given where Energy Prices are. My view is you will see continued consolidation in the shale business. That would be for a simple reason, some of the companies are too small to compete, their access to capital is limited, and youll get more consolidation as people try to bring their costs down. Alex what is your call on that . Sam i think he is right. From a securitys point of view, energy has been a big bust, and to a large extent, because there is too many companies, too much capital taking the space driving down the cost of play. Now we are in the reverse. They stopped drilling in the permian and it ends up squeezing the natural gas that comes with that. All of a sudden, the price of natural gas goes from 1. 90 to 3. 30. Everything is tied together. From an m a point of view, i think thats right. David you have invested in a lot of different Asset Classes how about cash right now . Given the uncertainty, is that a place to go . I am very focused on the alternatives. We are probably more liquid today than we have ever been before. One of our companies is sitting on 3 billion of cash as a result of a fiveyear liquidation program. Im not sure that they will be ,s valuable as it was in 1992 but as we evolve out of covid, lots of opportunities will come up. Ultimately, capital determines it. David thank you so much, sam zell, chairman of equity group investments. Also thanks to alix steel. Coming up in the second hour, awaiting results from the state of nevada. Here is where we currently stand on the electoral map. This is balance of power on Bloomberg Television and radio. 264those of you on radio, four Vice President biden for Vice President biden. This is bloomberg. When you switch to xfinity mobile, youre choosing to get connected to the most Reliable Network nationwide, now with 5g included. Discover how to save up to 400 a year with shared data starting at 15 a month, or get the lowest price for one line of unlimited. Come into your local xfinity store to make the most of your mobile experience. You can shop the latest phones, bring your own device, or trade in for extra savings. Thats simple, easy, awesome. Visit your local xfinity store today to ask, shop, discover the latest on xfinity mobile. I hope my insurance pays for it. Can you tell me how much this will be . [cashier] 67. Sorry. Wait, have you heard about goodrx . Goodrx finds free coupons to help you save up to 80 on your prescriptions. Wow, i had no idea. [announcer] goodrx, stop paying too much for your prescriptions. David im david westin. Welcome to balance of power, where the world of politics meets the world of business. Another day of suspense in the president ial race, a day that could take joe biden to the magic number of 270 electoral votes. Contributor in our political contributor, ricky davis. Where do you think we are headed . Tok the shortest path anyone winning is the one that joe biden has where he picks up nevada today and if arizona closes out tonight, we could wake up on monday morning friday morning its been a long week. Friday morning, exactly 270 in nevada and arizona, both of which he is leading today. Rick