[laughter] in the last several decades, one of the most important people in International Finance is actually not that wellknown to the public. Her name is kristalina georgieva. She was a senior commissioner of the European Commission, she was the chief executive of the world bank, and now shes the managing director of the imf. She heads an organization whose purpose is to help countries that have financial problems. Today, because of the pandemic, there are many countries that have financial problems and there are many people that are calling her. You have been a senior commissioner of the European Commission and now you are the managing director of the imf. In getting these positions, was it more difficult because you are a woman, or you are from a small country called bulgaria . Where was there more prejudice . Against being a woman or from bulgaria . Kristalina ultimately i got this job, so whatever the prejudice was did not hold me back. If i am to make a call on that, i would say being from a small country always requires to work twice as hard as others to prove yourself. David when you are growing up in a small country and then behind the soviet iron curtain, did you ever think that you would wind up in these kind of positions . As a young girl, did you imagine anything like this . Kristalina david, even today, there are moments when i am pinching myself. Am i the head of the imf . Coming from where i am coming from . So, no. [laughter] david many people do not know what the imf and the world bank do. So can you explain what they do and why they are different and why we need them . Kristalina at the end of the Second World War in a beautiful place in new hampshire, called bretton woods, enlightened leaders came together and said we have to help the world not get into war. And to do so, we need to help the economy to perform better. And they created these two sister institutions. The imf, with a mandate on financial stability, growth, and employment. And the world bank, to invest in reconstruction of thenwartorn countries. David so your job at the imf is to, lets take a country that has financial problems. Their economy is weak or they have other crises. You can help them through that difficult time by lending them money. Right now, you have about 270 billion outstanding. Do you actually get paid it back . Kristalina the loans we provide are with very attractive Interest Rates because the members extend help to each other with a helping hand. For the poorest members, we charge no interest. These are much softer than traditional imf loans. Countries pay us back. The poorer countries have longer maturity and longer time to serve their loans to us. But, what matters is not just the money. What matters is that we work with countries to make them stronger, so they can repay with more ease. And that is absolutely paramount for people to know about the fund. We are there to help countries to have strong economic fundamentals. David there are some people who say sometimes when the imf has lent money in the past, lets say to argentina or greece, the terms are draconian and theres a lot of, i would say, revulsion, in those countries against harsh imf terms. Is that still fair, or are those things the days of the past . Kristalina of course we learn from experience. One of the things we learned is we have to pay very close attention to the impact of programs on people. Policies are for people. Macro decisions have micro consequences. And we are integrating this much more into programs we do today. We think about social spending. Put the floor, do not allow education and health to be so dramatically impacted that Human Capital of the country is eroding. David lets suppose i am the president of a country and i would like some extra money. Can i call you up and say i would like to borrow some money . How hard is it to get the money . How long does it take . And are people afraid of calling you because their own Credit Ratings might go down, and it is if it is known they have to borrow money from the imf . Kristalina if you are president of a country in trouble, you better call. Because if you do not have access to markets, and some developing countries dont, then the only way to boost your economy is to rely on the imf, the world bank, institutions like us. Because this is an exogenous stock. It is truly an emergency. The way we respond is different from what we do when a country is in trouble because it mismanaged its economy. It is the fault of those that have been governing at that time. What we are asking countries is two questions. One, please, when you get the money, prioritize your health system, and helping the most Vulnerable People and the most vulnerable parts of the economy. Two, show me the receipts. What did you use the money for . We are advising countries to spend more, but keep the receipts. We want accountability. Not just to us, but to the taxpayers in the countries. And we have advanced already financial lifelines to 75 countries, in record short time. I mean, in this place, when a crisis knocks on the door, we turn on a dime. We are the worlds First Responder in crisis. David recently you have asked the g20 to more or less have a Debt Forgiveness situation, that some people who owe you money would not have to pay you back. Why did you need to do that . Kristalina when we got hit by this crisis, for poor countries that is devastating twice as much as it is for countries that are wealthier. Why . Because one, they had weak health systems. Two, they have very little capacity to respond on their own. And three, a number of them have had high debt levels by that time. So, the economy is in standstill. If that service is not put in standstill, these countries have to decide, do they pay doctors and nurses to save lives, or serve their debt. And that is bad for them, but its also bad for the rest of the world because a country in desperate situations, falling to pieces, turns into a Security Threat to its neighbors and the rest of the world. David so you have a lot of economists here. What are the economists here telling you about the state of the economy in the world . Because of the pandemic, are we likely to have a global recession for another year or so . Kristalina we have some optimism on two grounds. The first one is exceptionally Decisive Action by Central Banks and by finance authorities. They put the floor under the World Economy. We, on our side, have done our part for the countries that have no resources on their own. The second reason we are somewhat more optimistic today than we were a couple months ago, is that we see the World Learning how to function with the pandemic still with us. But make no mistake, the recovery is partial and it is uneven. We are not going to see in 2021 a return to precovid conditions. And were seeing big divergence, parts of the economy doing really well, and parts falling behind. And this is my biggest concern. That we may come on the other side of this crisis with more inequality, higher debt, higher deficits, and a Climate Crisis still hanging on us. If we are strong as a world, we ought to come together. A massive, coordinated stimulus can make it so that we have a better economy on the other side than we had in 2019. David how did you wind up in the fiji islands . Kristalina i got a letter, an invitation to go and teach. I had to virtually go to the map and see where fiji was. David as we talk today at the imf headquarters, it is relatively quiet here because of the pandemic. People are working remotely. Are you generally working remotely . Kristalina so, on march 13, we took a decision to work remotely. And we have sustained this decision because conditions are still such that, for the safety of staff, we opt to continue to respect that modality of work. It has been amazingly successful. We are doing much more because of the crisis, and we are doing it working remotely. But it does have some downsides. But david, we will never go back to where we were. We will never have 100 of people sitting here in these offices. We now know you can be very productive working from home. And we would be striving to have maybe 5050, 6040, at any one day, being in telecommute, working from home. David how have you changed as a result of what we have been going through since march 13 . Kristalina what i learned is in crisis, the most important thing is to lean forward, act, help the most vulnerable. I reach out to people. I record almost every week a short video to connect with staff. And i never get tired to bring people in these virtual rooms where we have to Stay Together so we have clarity of purpose in this crisis. David so lets talk about your background. As i mentioned at the outset, you grew up in bulgaria. Bulgaria at that time was behind the iron curtain, so it was not a powerful country in the west, and it was actually i think a small and relatively poor country. It turns out you were from a prominent family, but not a wealthy family. Can you tell us a little bit about your background . Kristalina so, yes, i was a daughter of ordinary people. My father was a road engineer, my mother stayed at home to look after us. Modest means. Very happy childhood. Very loving parents. Yes, my family was prominent, but i did not know that until i was in my 20s. Why . Because my father was concerned that if we talk about the revolutionary, who was my greatgrandfather, and the fact that we can trace back our origins five centuries into the past, that may not gel well with the power of the proletariat. David when you were growing up in bulgaria in the 1950s and 1960s, were you required to learn russian . Kristalina of course. Of course. David and english . Kristalina no. My mother was a francophile, so she sent me to learn french. I had some french. When gorbachev came to power in the soviet union, and glasnost and perestroika came to bulgaria, i was able to apply for a scholarship in the west. And in six months i learned english enough to pass, to win a British Council scholarship to go to the London School of economics. That was incredible, to be on the other side of the iron curtain. And what i found out over there, having access to information, was that my country was broke. My country was so much deep in debt that i couldnt imagine how it was going to survive. Sure enough, two years later, bulgaria, the economy collapsed, and bulgaria turned the page away from socialism to market economy. David how did you wind up in the fiji islands . Kristalina now that is a story. [laughter] so, when i was at the London School of economics, a professor noticed me as somebody who is quite professional. He then became the dean of economics in the university of South Pacific in fiji. In tuva, sitting there, wondering how he can find highly qualified professors that are willing to work for very little money. So, brilliant idea. Wrote to this bulgarian woman, i got the letter, the invitation to go and teach. I had to literally go to the map and see where fiji was. Getting from bulgaria to fiji in 1990 was an adventure. So i am landing in fiji, i handed my passport to the passport control lady, she takes it, types something, looks at me, and says where are you from . Bulgaria. She types again, looks at me, says there is no such country. The first bulgarian to go to fiji. Now, the professor really liked me. He offered me a job. I still remember, he offered me a job, 16,000 a year. I had no idea of my market value. At that time i was paid 100 a month. But i still did not take the job. Why . Because it was so far from bulgaria. So i went back. I got a chance to go to mit, to come to the United States. And the rest is history. David did you ever say, i am not going back to bulgaria . I am now in the west, and i am going to stay on the west. Kristalina actually, no. I came to mit with the idea to spend one year, learn as much as i can, and bring the knowledge back to bulgaria. I had a contract to write a textbook on environmental economics. As an outcome of this visit. But the world bank called me up. They offered me a summer job. I came for the summer. The fourth day i am in this consulting job, i got the call and i got an offer to stay at the bank. Why . At that time, the bank was looking for environmental economists, 1992. Check. They were desperate for women. They were very maledominated. So, check. They were opening up towards the soviet union block and looking for russian speakers. Check. So, i took the job. [laughter] you know, this is such an opportunity to work here. And then i did incredibly interesting jobs within the bank. I rised up in the ranks. And one day i got the call to go to europe. David what did you actually do there . What was your job . Kristalina i had first the job of humanitarian and crisis commissioner. And it was an incredible experience. I had a front seat position in all the terrible crises that were happening at that time, from the haiti earthquake, to the triple disasters in japan, to the syrian war. And i was able to mobilize the very best of europe to help people in terrible need and reform the Crisis Response system of europe. One of my strong memories of this time, i am in the village talking to a syrian girl who wants to go back to school, but there is no schooling available. I said to her, i said i hope you will be able to go back to school. I walked out of there and i thought, my hope Means Nothing to her. My acting would make a difference. And then we mobilized and we scaled up massively, access to education for syrian refugee children. David have you ever thought of running for office in bulgaria, or are you quite happy where you are . Kristalina i always take the job i have, as what takes my full concentration. I pour my heart in it. David you talked about how the how the imf, and and the world bank were created in the late 1940s. If you had been there then, how would you change the structure for the imf or the world bank, and might you think there could be some time in the future when some of the structure might be changed to make it better . Kristalina they were created very thoughtfully with institutions that evolve with time. Their shareholding changes as the World Economy changes. What is required from us is to relentlessly pursue these adjustments. So, the imf, in terms of its governance and the shareholding, reflects the world of today. And that takes a lot of work, bringing the membership together. The imf has done a successful quarter adjustment. This is changing shareholding. And now its due to take stock again. So, between now and 2023, that will be a very important job to do. David so, what percentage of the people on the staff, are they americans or from overseas . And what percentage are male and female and so forth . Kristalina we have just about 75 of staff from all countries in the world, and around 25 are americans. Logically, for many positions we recruit locally. Like for some of the assistance, coordinators. For the professional pool, we recruit internationally and competitively. Broadly speaking, we are about the same, men and women. But you would not be surprised when we go up, there are more men, than we have down. This is something i am zeroing in on. When i came, directors, this is the layer of management that has the most important operational responsibility, were 25 women, 75 men. Now they are 4060. And i would drive this pipeline of talented women, not because im obsessed with percentages, but because diversity matters. Having different regional perspectives, having men and women working together, makes us more effective. We make better decisions as a result. David historically, the World Bank President was picked more or less by the United States administration, the president of the United States. And the head of the imf was more or less picked by europeans. Do you foresee that will change, or do you think that will continue for the foreseeable future . Kristalina i think therell be more and more demand to make these positions open for competition based on merits. And even if you take this round, yes, im european. Europe aligned to nominate me. But i am a european from a country that in the mid1990s benefited from an imf program. I do belong to emerging markets, and emerging markets were very loud in supporting me for that reason. So i want to see that process to continue. Why . Because institutions are much stronger when the whole world believes they belong to all of us. David china has become a Major Economic power, the second largest in the world. Does china have the influence in the imf and world bank proportionate to its overall Global Economy now . Kristalina they have increased their shareholding in both institutions. They have been also very active in supporting the institutions. In the case of the imf, china, u. S. , the rest of the world, in this crisis, stepped up significantly support for us to be able to extend concessional lending. And i see the engagement of china as constructive. That is so very important when we are in the midst of the worst crisis we have had since the Second World War. David the imf stands for the International Monetary fund. Have you ever thought of changing to say it stands for i am fair, i am friendly . Wouldnt that be better . Kristalina i love that. [laughter] most people here in the fund says it stands for, it is mostly fiscal. But i much prefer the definition you gave. And actually, this is what i would relentlessly work for. We at the fund, to always think of the people whose lives are impacted by the policies we recommend. David you are the most prominent person in the west from bulgaria as far as i know. Maybe there is someone else, but i cannot think of anyone else. So i assume you can go to bulgaria whenever you wanted to and run for president of bulgaria. I do not know if that is a better job than the one you currently have. Have you ever thought of running for office, or are you happy where you are . Kristalina i always take the job i have as what takes my full concentration. I pour my heart in it. I never, ever think of what is next. So, as long as i am the head of the imf, it is the imf and the membership that has my complete dedication. [ sigh ] not gonna happen. Thats it. Im calling kohler about their walkin bath. My name is ken. How may i help you . Hi, im calling about kohlers walkin bath. Excellent happy to help. Huh . Hold one moment please. [ finger snaps ] hmm. The kohler walkin bath features an extrawide opening and a low stepin at three inches, which is 25 to 60 lower than some leading competitors. The bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. 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