Lots of people start retiring retail value starts to drop your medically, as a result of which, air france is taking the 500 million euro hit on that. Vonnie suppliers like rollsroyce, talking to the jet engine maker earlier on, and every time a widebody plane aes away, rolls doesnt get reorder for that particular plane. The s p 500 up 1. 5 . Most stocks are higher in the s p, and all of the groupings in the s p are higher, but we do have about 50 or so stocks lower. To be honest, a lot of those are came out after target and said, look, i cant tell you what is going on with the consumer. I am just completely confused. Target upping its offerings of fruits and vegetables and cook foods, but really not understanding what the customer is doing about a parable is doing about apparel. The dollar index down to 99, testing the 99 mark. Lets not forget the fomc minutes later on, for what thats worth. Theres also a lot of chatter about negative rates, particularly out of england. The 10 year yield at 71 basis points. We got Oil Inventories earlier on. That gave a boost to oil. But we are also seeing gold go down to its gains the last few sessions, trading close to 1750. Has trusting things to say about gold. As you say, the negative rates story front and center. Bank of england governor Andrew Bailey says the lower bound for Interest Rates is under active review at the bank of england, and he would not exclude the idea of taking borrowing costs to zero in the u. K. It is a live debate in the United States, of course. Chief joined by the Market Strategist of hsbc ofvate bank, will himself hsbc private bank, willem sels. In the u. S. And the u. K. , the debate is now live. Do you think that the gilt market could see significantly lower rates from where we are now . The debate is live in the United States. Do you think either of those countries will go down the negative rate route . Willem the Bigger Picture i think is that you are going to have very low yield environment for a very long time. The fed is going to be on hold for several years around the 0 level. We also think that the structural low yield environment is here. Our clients are into camps are in two camps on whether higher debt and liquidity will lead to inflation. Yields, thatlow obviously supports credit futures, but they are youre going to get a lot of differentiation. The fed needs to stick with investmentgrade Higher Quality both in the developed and emerging markets. Guy where does that ultimately take you . At some point, youve got to right size your portfolio. Where am i going to generate yields around the world if weve got rates stuck where they are . Equities dividends are disappearing as fast as anything at the moment, and yields are going lower and lower. Where does my portfolio generate returns . Where do i actually get that kick from . Willem that is the big question. Clients have a big problem with growth, low income, and high uncertainty. Frequent frankly, we already had that the start of the year, but it has just intensified. Investmentgrade yields are very low, but in the short term, i think it is still a wiser decision to stick with that because we are going to have somewhat higher defaults, and yields can still reprice. You can do it in a smart way and not overreach it you have the dividend stocks that have become much more challenging, which was a very popular trade with private clients, leading to the haves and havenots of companies, depending on their balance sheets. Popular area to reach for yield is on the real estate side, and there is wally landscape has changed, looking for differentiation. The answer for some people is to surprise the credit market, but thereto, we will have differentiation a few times during this interview, i think. Vonnie youre more them up them to. How often do you recommend rotation these days . Weve got the vix down to 28. Is it time to buy and hold a little bit more now . Willem we actually had a meeting today thinking about this question, which we also get from clients who are in technologies, in stocks, and all of those have become much more expensive. The question being, is there something where i should start trash,nto the dash for or reach selectively in those sectors that have been left behind . I think it is probably still a little early to do that. There are opportunities for stock pickers in those areas that have been left behind, but they will be quite few and far between. I think for the moment especially, we are still in the midst of getting negative data. We are still in a period where earnings have to continue to be downgraded by the analyst consensus. I think it will be difficult for the cyclicals and lower quality areas to rally in a sustained way as long as you have those negative headlines. Vonnie how do you think about the covid19 premium . Is there one . Is there one per asset class . How do you even calculate this . Willem i think it is impossible to do, except for the fact that one can say, yes, this sector should be better positioned than the other one. It also depend on how far your investment horizon is. I think in the very short term, what you need to do is build resilience portfolios over the next few months to weather that ushaped recovery and uncertainty, and you do that through diversification into investmentgrade gold and into alternative assets to manage that volatility. You do it by being in defensive sectors, to manage the slow recovery, and then the uneven nature comes back to differentiation. I think it is very difficult to put a price on that. ,f you look at the longerterm the longerterm, which are the countries and sectors that are. Ellpositioned for the future emerging Market Countries are very differently positioned because of where we are in the covid curve and the stimulus they can put in the economy from a monetary and fiscal perspective. How technologically advanced are they, etc. So there are very so they are very important to differentiate. Guy one of the key questions i think a lot of investors are going to try to figure out is if states are going to trough in this quarter. If it doesnt and if we start seeing the data rolling over into next quarter, and potentially the quarter after that, that is a very different scenario than a lot of people are pricing in right now. What is your sense of what is happening . The u. K. Chancellor was warning yesterday that we are not going to see the kind of bounceback people anticipated. That government stimulus is going to be withdrawn. We have seen it in the United States as well. What happens at that point . Are investors fully pricing that risk . Willem if you go back three weeks or so to the conversations i had with trying to convince people that we werent going to have a v shape, that we were going to have a ushape, now clients are asking me why we will have a ushaped and not a lshaped . The level of conviction for many people has been reduced. What you also see is those that have their own business that they run, they are seeing the negative impact on their business and therefore tend to have may be more of a negative view than those that are pure investors, and obviously see what is going on in the markets and have that view of global liquidity, trying to push asset prices higher. I think this is the difficulty, that it is not only about the depths of the fall and how much are we going to recover, but also the duration. The longer the duration, the havecompanies are going to profits,f negative which is going to be difficult, and governments can stimulate less and less. Guy thank you for taking the time to join us today. We really appreciate it. Sels joining us from hsbc private banking. A quick look at global markets. Lets get the details with kailey leinz. Kailey it is a risk on wednesday for sure. Optimism about reopening economies seems to be dominating the narrative, especially in the u. S. , where you have stocks higher between 1 and 2 . That is outpacing gains in europe, although they are in the green as well. The msci world index did close today just a touch lower. It really is a u. S. Outperformance story this morning. What i would note that the u. S. Has outperformed throughout this extended market rebound. Up, outpacing both the stoxx 600 and stocks globally. You can point to unprecedented amount of fiscal stimulus, but we also have to consider how those are twoed technology. Today it is the more cyclical sectors leading the way specifically. You are seeing that play out in individual names as well. Some of the most severely beaten up stocks are on the rebound today. You have the likes of mgm resorts higher by about 6 , and peers also rallying as states begin to move to reopen casino doors once again. Also have United Airlines higher by 5 on some signs of air travel demand picking up. The ceo was saying earlier that every day, he is getting a little more optimistic. Disney also higher by about 2 . I want to end on one stock that has not been seeing the selling pressure many of these names have. That is amazon. It is posting a modest gain today, just about 1. 3 , but that is yet another record high. This stock has been up six days in a row, 12 of the last 13 sessions. It has really been the poster child for stayathome stocks and has done well even on down days, but continuing to do well on this risk on day. Vonnie thank you for that. That is kailey leinz with our market deep dive. Coming up, we are going to hear from guys ceo with jetblue ceo roman hayes Ceo Robin Hayes. That is coming up. This is bloomberg. Guy from london, im guy johnson, with vonnie quinn in new york. This is the european close on bloomberg markets. Jetblue announced today it will extend its social distancing policy at least through july 4. The airline will continue to block middle seats in rose where parties are not traveling together. It will also continue to require. Ace covering for customers i talked to Ceo Robin Hayes about how he sees demand developing from here. Since the beginning of april, we have been bumping along the bottom. We are now bumping off the bottom. One thing i look at every morning as the tsa data which shows how many people go through the checkpoints the day before. As an industry, we are seeing about 8 to 10 of what we would normally see, so we are deftly seeing more improvements. We think in june, theres going to be more demand for flying from may. Again, we are very cautious, but we expect to fly our june schedule probably between 70 to 75 down of what we normally fly, whereas in may, we were flying 80 to 90 down from what we normally fly. Guy and what kind of traffic is it . Is it the kind of visiting friends and relatives traffic . Is it leisure traffic . Is there any Business Travel . Theres still a lot of essential workers flying around. Reticle personnel, people in the distribution business. Definitely some visiting friends and family. People returning back to the just before this pandemic broke. It is a real mix. We are also seeing into the summer some small interest in vacation travel as well. We are talking to a number of vacation markets, particularly the caribbean, to understand the reopening plans. Guy you dont see a lot of business traffic. You have certainly been trying to change that over the last couple of years. Do you see business coming back in anything like the same way you did before . I think business will come back more slowly. I think we are all finding things like this work a lot better than we thought. We are about 80 leisure, 20 business. I feel good about where jetblue is. We have a largely domestic network. The International Flights we have tend to be close to home. I think theres going to be concerned for a while, people traveling to far from home. I think we are going to see some different quarantine rules put in place around the world that are going to confuse people. But i think probably on business mayflywhere we eight to 10 a day, we may fly three to four. Demand . T about do you think it will come back in 2021 . Late 2021hink it is that demand between europe and the u. S. Should be largely back to where it was. We are going to have the same problems of Legacy Airlines gouging people with very high fares. We still see great opportunity for us to come in and make significant Price Reductions to make traveling a horrible. Traveling affordable. Guy when you look at what is happening with that trans allete story that transatlantic story, a number of airlines have gatwick andom heathrow. Do you see extra slots becoming available . Robin we see a path into more than one london airport more than i did then. Guy and you see what is happening with the legacy carriers. Michael oleary has been very outspoken on his perception of what is happening here. He doesnt see this as being a level Playing Field in terms of the ada being handed out to the likes of potentially of the aid being handed out to the a of potentially batons potentially lufthansa. Robin Congress Passed the c. A. R. E. S. Act, and we received payroll support assistance, as did other airlines. To pay ouren used people and keep our people on. Jetblue hasnt for like hasnt furloughed anybody. We kept everyone on the payroll. That commitment lasts through the end of september. When the economy comes back, the Aviation Industry is so important to help businesses and help people get going again. If you furlough everyone and there is no one around to fly the airplanes, it will just hinder the recovery. So the industry in the u. S. Is very thank full for that. We are very thank full for that, and ready to serve when things get going again. Guy what happens in q4 if things dont get going again . As you say, you run until the end of september. What then . If we havent seen a pickup later this year, how do you react . How do you reposition the airline at that point . Robin we have always had a low cost structure. We have always been very careful about how we plan for growth. We have a relatively simple, as i said earlier, a net worth largely u. S. Domestic. International tends to be caribbean, central and a little bit of latin america. We dont have any widebody airplanes. We do believe that this is the business that will come back first. Having said that, i still think it is highly likely that when we get to october, we are going to be a smaller airline, a smaller industry. We are going to attempt to do everything we can to manage that through voluntary means. Jetblue has never furloughed a crewmember in our 20 year history. We are proud of that. We would like to continue that. We also recognize that we are going to be smaller. We have had Great Success already, about 14,000 of our 23,000 cream embers have taken some form of voluntary time off. 23,000 crewmembers have taken some form of voluntary time off. Guy if it came to it, do you think you could see yourself from certain cities in terms of the network you are operating at the moment . There is a people effect. Is there a Network Effect and an offering effect in terms of what the business could ultimately look like . Guy that is a great question. We certainly have no plans to withdraw from meant. I think what it is going to look like is the lesser markets where we mayfly once a day, we will be flying maybe three to five times a week. Business markets where we see six to 10 flights a day, maybe we will fly four to five times a day. I dont see any longterm changes to the places we fly. I feel pretty confident that everywhere we fly today will bounceback eventually, albeit with less flights for a while. Ceo robin hayes talking to me a little earlier on about how this business comes back and how important it is ultimately to the u. S. Economy that it does. We are going to carry on the conversation. We are counting you down to the european close. This is bloomberg. Guy four minutes or so until the end of trading here in europe. In some ways, a more defensive kind of bias in some respects, but actually, in other respects, more of a growth, risk on kind of five. Equity markets are generally higher, tracking higher since the gecko. Weve got to since the getgo. Weve got technology up, oil and gas up. Follow. More details to european close is next. This is bloomberg. Guy 30 seconds to go until the end of regular training. We find ourselves up. The 600 is trading near session highs. At session highs as we approach the close. We are up just over 1 . Three point 23 323 is where we are training now. Lets take a look at how it breaks down across europe. There is more dispersion in terms of how individual markets are performing around europe, as there is when it comes to what is happening with the sector story. Up ande up 1. 2 , the dax continuing to outperform 1. 54 and the cac 40 is up. 9 . Not massive differences but worth paying attention to. Sectors, lets break it down. It does not feel obvious risk on, risk off from a sector breakdown point of view. The insurers at one end getting knocked around. Some of these are individual idiosyncratic stories, worth paying attention to. You see the oil and gas sector bouncing back. Higher oil price, which is part and parcel to that. Utilities are also kicking up and doing relatively nicely. Stocks rebounding up there march lows. Worth paying attention to. Anyway, lets move on, a final quick look at what is happening with the individual sectors, the individual stocks. Marks spencer looks better than the market anticipated. That stock is rising. Quiteroyce initially not sure what to make of what was announced in darby, but up to. 8 now. now. Oles up 2. 8 demand for aircraft falling. That needs to be reflected into the big tier one suppliers like rollsroyce. Renualt up 6. 34 . Saying the government would take an uncompromising position on plant closures. That twoo interesting of those involved in the escape of carlos ghosn, two of those were arrested in boston earlier on. A bit of a tangent when it comes to what is happening. Vonnie i see that. The father and son. Light on details as to how authorities think they might be involved except to suggest they did help carlos ghosn escape from boston to lebanon. We will hopefully find out more about that because it is an interesting story that boston would have been involved in some way. He was captured in japan originally. Lets get the u. S. Markets. The s p 500 up 1. 5 . All of the major groupings are higher, but not all stocks are higher. The market seems to be taking some solace from the fact that not all retail earnings were awful. There was good news out of those in mixed news from target which sounded the news. The ceo suggesting he does not know what is going on with the u. S. Consumer, but some of the checks he sent out we have the dow up 1. 7 and the nasdaq up 2. 2 . To 99. Lar index is close we have seen a good amount of weakening over the past sessions. We will get the fomc minutes later on for added color about central banks. There is so much money sloshing around. Deutsche bank talking about m2 in the United States accounting now45 of global right which is a phenomenal number. 1750, whicho suggests there is some skepticism about the reopening of the economy and valuations in this marketplace. Lets look at a couple of stocks i want to point out. One of them is target. You can see target is down 1. 8 . Investors having difficulty it wasg whether optimistic or pessimistic. He says the Shopping Patterns of the u. S. Consumer are everchanging. Margins were down. Take what you will out of that. United airlines up 4. 8 . Scott kirby takes the reins from oscar munoz. A difficult time but he needed breath of fresh air but a needed breath of fresh air for United Airlines. Moderna has been up and down. We had a ratings change from Morgan Stanley with a price target up to 90. The analyst saying there is a huge amount of potential. We know the market was over and back on moderna yesterday. Weal caribbean down, but found out the majority of customers are not looking for cash refunds. World caribbean say 55 are taking credit, which would suggest they want to take the cruise at some point. Guy yes. It will be interesting to see how many people are prepared to get back on cruise liners after what we have just seen. I think it is still an open question about those credits. Lets get back and talk a little bit about what is happening with state eight and what the story looks like in europe. With state aid strongly in to act combating the virus pandemic. This after Angela Merkel and emmanuel cry problem and Emmanuel Macron presented their vision. Dombrosky continues to emphasize the commission will acknowledge some sectors will be hit harder. In an exclusive interview with bloomberg tv, dumb brzeski elaborated dombrosky elaborated. As a part of our recovery plan, the solvency support supportnt, indeed to investment among other things, to companies equity, but mainly an indirect way. Controversial. Joining us to talk about what is happening is bloombergs maria tadeo. , what we find ourselves here is a situation where we have an uneven Playing Field team generated. The commission will be taking statements and im curious to hear your take on what the details of that are, then we have this growing concern that germany is able to leverage its might to aid its companies to make sure they recover from this more quickly. Maria that is exactly the problem. I am sure you remember at the start of the covid crisis, every european government says they would protect their companies, they would protect their industries, and do whatever it takes to make sure those companies can stay alive once the crisis is done. The problem is it comes down to how much money you put on the table. When you look at the case of germany, 51 of all of the state eight that has been approved by the European Commission has gone to german companies. The second would be france. That is less than 20 . The rest would go to the rest. You see germany is in a much stronger position to defend its industry, and this could become problematic because we talked many times about the idea of it does kospi recovery. Wealthy countries a two speed recovery. Strong kathys emerge strong countries emerge at a quicker speed compared to their neighbors. Todayt interview we had with dombrosky he acknowledge that and said next week when the European Commission puts forward its recovery plan, there will be something in terms of providing solvency and making sure these companies can stay solvent. State aid can become problematic and it can become a huge political football between Different Countries in europe when they say this is not even recovery because im not able to do what other countries are doing in a way that goes back to we are all trying to avoid. Vonnie as much as the market can get excited about this new idea and new collaboration, it is ursula von der leyen who will have to deliver. I want to point out that this is all under the shadow of Angela Merkel next year. It is all mixed together. Maria the french and german paper presented at the start of the week, that 500 million euro relief fund would be down to grants to countries. It got the market excited. You saw btps fell 12 basis points. Everyone got excited but now reality is starting to kick in. This is something more for the European Commission to do. Ursula von der leyen has come under a lot of pressure. There is criticism that a times she seems overwhelmed by the size of the crisis, and she is perhaps too deferential to europe and has not grown into the role. Before she was at the European Commission it was jeanclaude juncker, a man who could hold his own versus Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron. In a way ursula von der leyen does not seem as strongly juncker. D as that is one issue. She will have to strike a balance between two things. Then it will depend on whether the smaller countries such as the netherlands or austria agreed to the loans program. That is something up in the air. They are going to put forward a counter offer the commission to consider. Guy we will leave it there. It is all getting convoluted but very interesting. Bloombergs maria tadeo joining us from brussels. European markets now shut for the day. The ftse 100 finishing near session highs, pushing up quite nicely toward the end of the day. A little dip first thing but the auction continuing that process, up over 1 . The cac 40 a little bit of a laggard. We are counting you down to the Daily Briefing from 10 downing street. We have the bank of england stillreferencing the fact leaving the possibility of negative Interest Rates on the table. The cable show at the top of the hour. We will take the breathing from 10 downing street. Jonathan ferro is in new york. Ill be joining him in london. This is bloomberg. Uckin coffee has burnt investors wants. Nasdaq moves to delist the stock after fraud. Block was an investor that saw through a short seller thats all through the fraud. He joins erik schatzker. Luckin is one of dozens of chinese frauds that youve had a hand in exposing. There are some 400 chinese domicile Companies Listed on u. S. Exchanges. Based on your experience, how many of those 400 companies do you figure would be frauds . Carson [laughter] believe a substantial number. Lets call it a substantial majority are committing at least some level of fraud. The reality is, and it is hard to explain this to people who have not been ensconced in china , especially the china stock listing world. The reality is in china, the company that invents 30 of its revenue is considered real. Peoplesre taking other expectation is an there is some level of fraud. 30 fate is real in china. North of 50 is where they start to say that is a fraud. 30 to 50 is a gray zone. Without taking revenue is standard in china. This were a, if u. S. Company or u. S. Centric Company Listed in the u. S. That was inventing 30 of its revenue , we would not tolerate that. That is china. That is the game. Erik at one point, luckins market cap exceeded 12 billion. What does that tell us about the conventional wisdom that they Chinese Companies are ok, it is the small ones need to worry about, they are the dodgy ones . Carson i do not know way when would say that they Chinese Companies are ok. I do not know why anyone would say the big Chinese Companies are ok. I talk about alibaba. , itre alibaba went public had a subsidiary. Alipay withoutok telling of the outside shareholders or directors. Took itmonths after he by transferring legal ownership to himself, the other shareholders discovered it, and at that point he went to the board and said you know, actually, i do not think it was legal for you to have a share, so that is why i did it. Which is a total lie. If that were the case there would have been discussions ahead of time. At the end after he took it, he said this is how much i will give you for it. Jack ma is not an aboveboard operator. Everybody wants to forget about is aand pretend Alibaba Company that operates or reports financials the same way a u. S. Company would wear that we would like a u. S. Company to that is not the case. Trump said he is ly atg very strong requiring Chinese Companies listing on u. S. Exchanges to follow u. S. Accounting rules. Do you believe he is willing to follow through on that and risk in exodus of Chinese Companies from the nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange . Carson no. Dicting President Trump that is not a business i want to get into. Erik let me add this. Says no one can confidently invest in Chinese Companies, and at the same time, i am sure you are aware, bloomberg just a couple of days ago reported that nasdaq is tightening its ipo requirements for Chinese Companies to the point where some may not be able to list as they previously have. If you take all of those things together, it suggests something is going on. Is there something going on . Yes, but maybe not the answer you are looking for. Nasdaq and New York Stock Exchange, their interests are different. The nasdaq reported requirements those are not substantive. Promulgatingare these requirements or quasistandards in order to say we got tough on these listings but they are still here. Do not forget how nasdaq nic make their money and nyse. They make their money on listing fees and trading. And nyse have offices in beijing where they try to recruit companies to enlist in the u. S. They maintain those offices even after all of the delisting and the companies that went dark around 2012, 2013. There were hundreds of issuers that went dark or were delisted from u. S. Exchanges, yet they kept those offices open. They still pandered for business. I do not think nasdaq is on the same side. In terms of what President Trump is thinking, he is also saying i do not want to lose those listings to london or hong kong. I think we should be willing to lose those listings because while Institutional Capital is capable of following these companies to hong kong or london , american retail would be much less likely to follow, so i think this would be preserving capital of u. S. Retail investors. Erik we are getting to the issue youve raised for more than a couple of years already. Youve accused Chinese Companies , with the backing of the chinese government, of the the u. S. Capitol market as a cash capital and raising here and transferring that wealth back to china. Is that message actually getting through to the administration or is what were hearing from President Trump and larry kudlow just more demagoguery . Obviously this has become a much more important issue to the administration as it has found itself in a political crisis over the coronavirus. But for the coronavirus, we would not be having this conversation. Credit to senator rubio, who has been on this for a few years and has been pushing for an increase enforcement of our regulations and laws against the chinabased companies. I dont know. On the other hand, president indexdoes like to see the print at high levels and arguably this could hurt the index a little bit. I have not sat down to do the math. I wonder about the blowback for wall street. Lets not forget Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley one full access to chinas private wealth and securities industry. States were to make it more difficult to raise capital in the u. S. Capitol market, it seems to me an easy way for china to retaliate is to exact revenge on wall street. This will meet awol of lobbying this will meet a wall of lobbying my if this lobbying a wall of proposalsny of these make advantage. There will be tremendous pushback. One of the dynamics that i am interested in when the dust settles and we all come out of our homes and we look around and we see the businesses lost, the lives lost, will there be such a massive backlash against china from the grassroots to the policymaker level that the wall street banks will say maybe we should not be fighting this one . If this does not do it, nothing will. Nothing will make them say i have a theory that maybe goldman divination of its china business. Erik youre making the case, and we have to wrap up weekly, that wall street for the sake of ethics is willing to sacrifice something on the bottom line. You truly believe that . Sake ofwell for the public appearance, maybe. If the backlash towards china is so strong, from grassroots to the very top, maybe that will curb wall streets appetite to do business in china. Maybe. Erik carson, we will leave it there. Carson block is the ceo and founder of muddy waters capital. Back to you. Guy that is an interesting maybe. Thank, indeed. Erik schatzker, fascinating conversation. Lets quickly wrap up where europe has settled, what is going on in terms of what is marketng in the gilt as well. The negative rate story developing quickly in the u. K. The governor of the bank of england not ruling out the possibility of the u. K. Two your negative, three year negative. The 600 was up 1 . Italy yields catching a bid. They are going down. Crude trading at 35. 60. Vonnie a nice bounce and equities in the u. S. We are off our highest but we are still 2 higher. The s p 500 is looking towards the 3000 mark again, up 55 points. That is all sectors higher. Would you believe the stock leading the s p 500 is Mgm Resorts International . At some levelow of reopening. We will see what happens in the coming weeks, but that is the way things stand from a state level. We also have Harley Davidson up 7. 8 and a handful of stocks lower. They include retailers like l brands, gap, and so on because we have target saying we do not know what is happening with the u. S. Consumer. It is difficult to tell. Polls down 2. 7 . Nordstrom down 2. 5 . Campbell soup down 2. 3 . Stay tuned. Coming up in the u. S. , we have balance of power with david westin. One of the conversations will be with terrence anthony, National League of cities ceo on the latest analysis of the impact of the coronavirus on u. S. Cities. This is bloomberg. David from new york, welcome to balance of power where the world of politics meets the world of business. We start with the markets and abigail doolittle. We have what looks like a nice rally, but my question is do we believe it . Abigail that is the question on the minds of many traders and investors. We have this move up, down, up down. This week in particular we have the rally on monday and then we had the late a selloff. Then we had the rally to the upside. We are breaking up the upside of the range. That is a feather in the cap of the bulls. The fact that it is not coming on other news speaks to the fact that there is a propensity to buy. Our kids are being supported by stimulus from the federal reserve. Are being supported by stimulus from the federal reserve. We have economic sectors such as financials and materials up top. The fact