We will discuss why the chipmaker chose now to release the information. And automation transportation. A selfdriving semi makes its first crosscountry freight run. We will hear from the company who performed this feat. But first to our top story. Stocks barely moved on the day as investors continue to wait for news on the potential december 15 tariffs. On the year, it is a different picture. Joining me to talk about this years big gains for stocks and tech in particular is abigail doolittle. The tech sector up 40 this year. S p up only 25 or so. Why are traders looking past all the tech macro headwinds . Abigail great question. Maybe climbing that wall of worry. Those gains are simply extraordinary. The s p 500 up only 25 . But it pales in comparison relative to tech, up 40 as you mentioned. Hardware doing especially well. Techs best sector since 2009. That was coming out of the financial crisis. At that point, stocks were on a bargainbasement sale. That is the kind of buying we are seeing this year. Really pretty amazing. Behind it again probably climbing that wall of worry for investors, taking advantage of the terrible Fourth Quarter last year. A little bit of a sale from the Fourth Quarter, going for the highgrowth names. Seeing traders continuing to go into the chip base. A piece of that has to do with expectations that the cycle is turning back up. Taylor abigail, back to apple. We talk to somebody who continues to say apple is the bellwether in terms of sentiment on where we are in the trade fight. How is apple doing amidst all the headlines . Abigail record highs, taylor. They seem to be shrugging off the fact that apple could get hit if the december 15 tariffs come into place against smartphones and electronics and other items. It will be interesting to see whether the tariffs go into place. If so, it could hit the company with this 20 revenue contribution. Of course, as you were mentioning, dan mentioning there is a risk there could be a 4 hit for their margins or . 50 in 2020. That could cause some slowing that investors might not like. But right now, investors looking at one point that could be the ceo of apple, tim cook, has met with president trump. So perhaps investors and traders thinking if the tariffs go in place, maybe apple get an exemption for the iphone. Taylor we talk about the iphone and the components of that, i was looking at qualcomm, some of the big chipmakers that go into apple, got a big upgrade as well. Interestingly enough, huawei has been taken out of the picture. If you put that back in the story, could continue the upside surprise. Analysts taking that all the way out of estimates. Where are some of the chipmakers with big exposure to apple, china . Abigail the apple suppliers you were talking about, on the possibility of a big 5g upgrade cycle, specifically yesterday, bank of America Merrill lynch upgraded those double upgraded, i should say. The equivalent from a sell to a buy. There could be 1. 4 million smartphones that will need to be switched over to 5g from 4g. Several hundred million devices. Both are apple suppliers. Maybe that is another reason we have apple up an amazing 70 this year. Investors not that worried knowing that is likely to come next year. They will debut a 5g smartphone in 2020. Taylor if anyone can do trendlines in technicals, it is you. That is why i wanted you on this program to pick us up. Take a look at the chart i am showing in my terminal. When we talk about who needs the trade deal more, u. S. Or china, you have this chart that shows the relative performance of the shanghai composite to the s p. What are we looking at . Abigail that is very kind of you on the trendlines. You can dry it anyway you like to, but this is squarely going down. That is the shanghai composite to the s p 500. China starts doing terrible relative to the s p 500 since the start of the trade war. The s p 500 over that time, up 18 . The shanghai composite down 11 . Investors really thinking china is being hit more, maybe never really recovering from the vte ban, that phone equipping company, that ban in 2018. Perhaps getting some leverage around huawei. The chart was starting to bottom. If the downtrend line should bottom, investors are looking for the beaten area. Not just trade, it could be monetary policy. The u. S. Perhaps more accommodative than china. Taylor thank you, wrapping it all up for us. That was bloombergs of the guilty little. Now i want to go to the battle over encryption. The government wants in but big tech is saying no. On tuesday, representatives from apple and facebook class with senators over granting Law Enforcement access to encrypted data. Joining us from washington is bloombergs alyza sebenius, a cybersecurity reporter who was at the hearing today. What did you learn today . Alyza the battle over encryption was reinvigorated today at this hearing on the hill. It was at the Senate Judiciary committee. What was interesting today is some of those on both sides of the issue, including republican Lindsey Graham and democrat Dianne Feinstein really seemed to come down to an agreement on this issue. They say if we can have a warrant to search, how come we cannot have search warrants when it comes to phones . The reason for that is phones are encrypted, so there is not a way to get into funds without companies help. Meanwhile, represented ofs from facebook and apple made their case. They said, look, it order to get into these devices, we need to build a back door. While that may be helpful to Law Enforcement, that also creates a huge vulnerability because hackers or bad actors or others seeking to do harm using these backdoors could utilize them for purposes outside of Law Enforcement. It really comes down to a fundamental interpretation where Tech Companies see this as a Security Risk where lawmakers from both sides of the aisle see this as an important thing for lawmakerss ability to do their job. Taylor this is not the first time we have seen a clash between government and tech officials. I want to start with both sides of that argument. What are Law Enforcement officials doing here . Alyza the argument on the lawenforcement side is we need to do our job. Criminals will operate on the phones and we have no way to get into these encrypted devices. Taylor we should note that facebook in particular was responding to that, as you had alluded to. If we create a backdoor access, you cannot just do it for Law Enforcement. Everyone that has a backdoor access in. Does that argument hold up . Alyza facebook seemed to be doubling down on that this week. They responded to a request by attorney general barr as well as officials in the u. K. And australia. They requested a backdoor access. Facebook said this is not a good idea. They again laid out their claims that the backdoor is vulnerability, so why would they do that when they are trying to create secure products . Taylor finally here, what stage, what inning are we in when it comes to this battle . Alyza this has been a long clash between Silicon Valley and washington, d. C. , where things really came to a head and played out on a National Stage in 2016 in the wake of the mass shooting in San Bernardino when the fbi sought access to one of the terrorists phones, and apple refused to help them. Eventually, they were able to hack into the phone at considerable cost. And so, we saw this play out in a really dramatic fashion in 2016. 2015, im sorry. Now, years later, we are seeing it come to the forefront again where lawmakers and Law Enforcement, the department of justice are really saying, you know, we need the capability. And Tech Companies are again pointing to the vulnerabilities they believe it will create. Taylor bloombergs alyza sebenius, thank you for joining us. Coming up, according to bloomberg intelligence, facebook will remain the top target of advertiser spending in 2020. So how much of the credit goes to instagram . We will discuss, next. If you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. You can listen on the bloomberg app, bloomberg. Com, and in the u. S. On sirius xm. This is bloomberg. Taylor Instagram Stories are now making significant contributions to facebook, according to a report. Instagram is drawing almost 10 of all ad spending on the companys properties at the end of the third quarter. The report also stated that advertiser spending on Instagram Stories jumped almost 70 from the year prior. To discuss, we are joined by eric. Also with us, sarah frier, who covers facebook for us. Sarah, we were looking at revenue for facebook. 70 billion in projected revenue this year. 10 alone just from stories on instagram. Sarah and it really goes to show that advertisers are starting to catch on to this new User Behavior because people increasingly are posting to these more ephemeral forms like stories where it is more casual, there is not as much pressure. On stories, advertisers have been slow to catch on. We have seen people talk about that in their earnings calls, that we should not expect advertisers to fully be participating in the format for a while now. This is a good sign for facebook that the revenue is catching up. Taylor eric, and your opinion, how much is this tied to relative years . Eric first off, stories were not watched in 2016 on instagram. They only started monetizing them this year so the growth is rapid. Instagram has grown 60 in 2019 alone and will account for between he percent of facebooks worldwide revenue, that will be higher in the u. S. At around 30 . When you look at Instagram Stories, most monetization is happening in the u. S. So it is going very rapidly. Taylor so, sarah, to play off of that, if the stories are really monetizing well in the u. S. , do we expect the next logical move would be to go overseas . When do we see the monetization abroad . Sarah i think you will see a lot more monetization in general. The problem is that users are increasingly migrating to this ephemeral format. The main news feed and instagram feed have asked that are much more expensive for facebook, so the overall pricing has been depressed because of this shift to stories. Maybe once it becomes more natural for advertisers to do stories, we will see that improve over time. Taylor eric, is this a good sign frankly that as long as i dont care if it is on the feed or stories as long as we are monetizing it and the ad revenue is rising, is that what matters . Eric there was a fear that stories for a while given their lowerpriced and cpm would catalyze some spend from instagram newsfeeds, which takes a much higher price currently. That really has not happened. Advertisers are generally increasing their spend across the board, whether it is on instagram newsfeed, Instagram Stories, or of course the normal facebook blue app as well. Taylor eric, do these things actually work . I see ads, but are people clicking on them and buying products when they see the ads . Is it translating into actual dollars . Eric well, first off, facebook, instagram, all those properties, they have great tools for advertisers to prove spend and prove roi. They are ahead of the pack in a lot of ways. You can tighten it back if somebody saw an ad on instagram to whether or not they made a purchase on your store. Shoppable ads are even more important for instagram moving forward as well. That is something even closer to the consumer as well. A lot of these ads on stories are more brand building so they are not necessarily trying to prove spend, but there are a ton of options and tools for direct response advertisers who really need to prove roi and prove their advertising is effective. Taylor sarah, what does this mean for facebook as a whole . The big platform. Particularly when it comes to calls for breaking up facebook, spinning off instagram, whatever regulators want. What does this show know about how closely tied facebook needs to keep instagram . Sarah facebook has become increasingly reliant on instagram to drive its revenue growth. There is still growth on facebook in terms of sales, but a lot of that rapid acceleration is coming from instagram. Specifically, the stories format. Facebook has been looking for some alternative to the Facebook Newsfeed because that is what is saturated with advertising. They are looking for new areas of growth. Investors have been pressuring them every quarter. Ok, it is great you have been growing on your normal properties, flagship properties, but what is next . What will the future look like . The fact that this is going well for them is a good sign, but it does show how invested they are going to have to be in growing instagram in the future to make up for the slowing growth on facebook. Taylor eric, bank of america yesterday was talking about how facebook even more so than alphabet will outperform given the buyer in 2020. Is this a strong facebook story or strong advertising environment going into 2020 . Eric looking at the Digital Advertising market, there is a couple pieces driving growth. Digital advertising is growing double digits, growing very rapidly. Within that industry, social Media Advertising like facebook as well as video advertising like facebook, like Instagram Stories, video ads with in the newsfeed, so they are really latching onto these trends and making a lot of growth as a result. Taylor not to mention those political ads that we increasingly talk about on this program all the time. Eric and Bloomberg Technologys sarah frier, think he was for joining me. Bloomberg technology is livestreaming on twitter. Check us out. Be sure to follow our global breaking news network at quicktake on twitter. This is bloomberg. Taylor podcasts are paving the way for the second golden age of audio and it is making money, too. That is according to the founders of gimlet media. They sold their company to spotify earlier this year for a reported 230 million, and they now had up the podcast unit. They spoke to bloomberg after being named in this weeks business week 50. Matthew if you look over the whole history of media, every time a new medium comes about, a new Media Company gets built, so 100 years ago, the new medium was radio. That is when cbs got built and nbc got built. We thought ondemand digital podcasts were a new medium and we wanted to build the defining new brand. Its fascinating because it is like radio in terms of just listening to a great story being told . It is such a simple thing but it is great but it harkens back to radio, right . Alex or further back than that. If you think about what we are doing in contrast, a lot about we are doing is one of the oldest media and Human History is telling stories to one another. We have been telling stories to one another before media was available. Many of the oldest stories in Human History were oral stories before they were ever written down. They were doing that before written language was invented. It is very deep and very primal. I think that was one of the issues when we were for starting this company. It is just talking, right . No. It is on the backs of the new technology and the new tools we bring to it. So where are we in the evolution here . Because you guys, as we said, were early. A lot of people have piled in, it feels like. We have a podcast, everybody has one. Everybody sitting around us probably has a podcast. Where does it go next . Matthew we are just at the very beginning. The term that i think he has been using is we are at the dawn of the second golden age of audio. The first golden age of audio was in the 1930s and 1940s. It was when broadcast news was born. It was when you saw fiction, like the shadow of orson welles, come out. All audio has not evolved that much in the last 60, 70 years until now. Now you have a couple of Big Technology changes. You have smartphones in every pocket. You have connected cars coming online. A lot of listening happens in cars. You have Smart Devices that people are listening at home and even talking to their dashboard when they are in their car. All these things have combined for this full new listening kind of experience is to come out and new storytelling, so it is a whole generation of creators being borne out. For this medium, it is like radio but more intimate. Right. There is something about putting on your headphones. Matthew when listening to a podcast, it feels like you are listening to your best friend hanging out with you and telling a story to you. Everybody has a podcast. What is it that makes a podcast stand out . There is so much content out there. Alex if we told you that, you would start your own. [laughter] well, actually. Is it a great story . Alex you are asking the question at the heart of every content company. Yes. Right. Alex the very truth is not as an essential mystery. We can do our best and have been successful so far and will continue being successful on getting that right a bunch of times, but it is hard. The thing that is true about audio, though, is it is two things above everything else. There is a very frugal way. It drives a narrative. If you can tell a simple story, just for example, if i say to you i got up this morning, i looked out the window, and then i stopped, you are like, wait, what happened . All of a sudden, you want to listen to the third one. There is something that deep in terms of hearing his story that it really grips you. So i think that is one of the key things that audio if you get that right over time, that is what people want to listen to. Lets talk a little of the business side of this because we all love telling stories. We love listening to them. We like telling them. We like listening to ourselves talk as we do it for hours every day, but you guys figured out a way to make a real business out of this. Something spotify was able to do and willing to pay you a lot of money for. Clearly, they see a business here. How does distribution ultimately work in a profitable way . Matt . Matthew that is a good question. We did build a business here. Gimlet was mainly an advertising business. It turns out podcasting is this intimacy and audio that makes it great for storytelling and advertising. We are reaching a very unique consumer that tends to be younger, more affluent, more educated, and hard to reach. Our name for them is the unreachables. Taylor that was the gimlet media cofounders. Coming up, officials from tictoc were supposed to meet with senators pressing them over National Security concerns. We will get into that meeting that is no longer happening. That is next. This is bloomberg. Taylor this is Bloomberg Technology global link, where we join bloomberg daybreak australia to bring you the latest global tech news. Im taylor riggs in San Francisco, with shery ahn in new york and paul allen in sydney. Shery india ruling in favor of koukalova who is to blame for online hate speech. The verdict reaffirms a decision saying google is not liable for defamatory content posted on the platform after 2009. Before 2009, still be able to be brought before justice. Alibabas cofounder empire is expanding. Hes investing 10 million in german based g2 esports. It raised more than 72 million earlier this year and valued at around 100 million. It could help them penetrate the 560 million market in china. More details on the apples corporate espionage case that involves Patriot Missiles. A judge voiced concerns it would be risky to end monitoring. Prosecutors previously revealed a search of the maryland home of one of the suspects turned up classified files from the Patriot Missile program. Those other top global stories we are watching. Taylor thanks. Now, to our continued look i have something in my throat the continued look at the u. S. Versus tictok. Under pressure over officials that are worried about that practices. Executives have canceled a number of scheduled meetings with u. S. Senators set to take place in washington this week. We want to bring in kurt wagner who will save me from choking on myself. Canceled, rescheduled, delays. What is going on . Kurt they will be rescheduled in the new year. Part of the issue is you may have heard other things going on in washington, d. C. These days with the potential impeachment of the u. S. President. As a result, the feeling from the tiktoc side was there is a lot of things going on. The senators are curious why they pulled the plug but we should be hearing about these again in 2020. Paul when those meetings take place, what kind of questions will the senators want answered . Kurt all of the biggest questions have to do with user privacy and data storage. It is owned by a massive Chinese Technology company. There are is a lot of concern around where this information is being stored. Is it being stored in the u. S. , Mainland China . Really talking to the company. This is a relatively new app and company to most of the u. S. , especially most politicians. Getting basic questions about how the business works. What the data is collected and where it is stored. It will be the primary purpose. Taylor it seems like we have had a few moments of what looked like progress. Namely this week, 1. 1 million settlement kids privacy suit. Where is tiktok responding . Kurt they want to have these discussions. It was a signal they wanted to answer some of the questions. We will wait and see if these meetings get rescheduled. They are seriously going to answer the question. I think this is a really popular app in the u. S. And things are going well for the app and company. If they want that to continue, they realize they have to play ball a little bit. I would be surprised if they ultimately bail. I think it is an important dialogue to be having right now. Paul in terms of the sediment from the case in illinois 1. 1 million that seems like for small change. Is that a surprising verdict . Kurt i dont know if it was necessarily surprising, but you are right 1. 1 million in the world of Technology Companies is pretty much nothing. A slap on the wrist. We were describing facebooks 5 billion sentiment as a slap on the wrist. When you think about 1 million, it does not do much. We are seeing a sign that a lot of the privacy issues are becoming top of mind for companies after many years where they were not. Even if it is a nominal amount, at least there is some kind of decision that is being made. At least companies are being held to some extent accountable. Taylor we have also spoken with other senators like Marsha Blackburn who has come out and has been a big critic and helped increase the age in which you can make in App Purchases to 18 to 13. It sort of seems like small progress but in the big picture, how much is it doing . Kurt senator blackburn is one of the politicians who i was supposed to meet with this week. She tweeted the meeting got canceled. I think we saw something similar, last week with instagram. Actually requiring users to enter their age when they create an account. You cannot create an account if you are under 13 which is what was always the rule but never really enforced. I think what we are seeing from this pressure is these things seem small. As a 13yearold going to create not one now because they need to enter the birthday . Probably not. But at least they are putting in Safety Measures they should have had all along and now being called out on it for the first time. And now they are following through. Paul does any of the things have to do with the u. S. Regulator was also investigating . How is that proceeding . Kurt it is hard to imagine it is not a point of discussion here. They are looking at these tiktok excuse me, the acquisition. Which has now been merged with tiktok. I am told there are conversations between the company and the regulatory body. I think if you are tiktok, you have to take this seriously. The cfius arrangements happen while it the acquisition is happening. There is a little bit more that the regulators can do. They can block something. This is an acquisition that happened two years ago. It is well past the point of being able to be blocked. Now it is a question of what types of guardrails can be put up . What stipulations can they put . I have to imagine that is top of mind. Taylor thank you to kurt wagner. Plenty more global stories ahead. All of that, next. This is bloomberg. Taylor lets take a look at todays top tech call. Netflix, after analysts say the company was at risk of losing 4 million u. S. Subscribers in 2020, giving competition and pricing. The analyst must give a second Price Service to compete. Vmware was initiated with an overweight reading. A 170 price target. The analyst said it is one of the few companies that has a true hybrid cloud strategy. The company is very dependent on workload growth and workloads are expected to grow 14 annually to 2021. Stitch fixs target forecast beat estimates. 33, setting the Earnings Report showing Customer Growth and continued acceleration. Suntrust shows the slowing target, showing the direct buying model is showing incremental demand. That is a look at the top tech calls. Wikipedia has a new social network called wt social. Jimmy wales is confident his platform will be different for rivals like facebook and twitter. He spoke to me about his plan to combat fake news with this initiative. Take a listen. Jimmy two fundamental differences. Just about everything in the platform is elaborately edible. People can work together, cooperate and try to improve the things they are posting. The other thing is our business model. No advertising. It is a pay if you want to. Taylor talk to me about the business model. New can sign up and buy a subscription or you rely on donors. How does that work . Jimmy when people sign up, we ask them to either sign up to pay or they get invite a friend. There is a waiting list. If you dont pay, eventually you get off the waiting list and it is free to use. People only pay if they think it is meaningful, which is like my work at wikipedia. Taylor do you feel confident that millennials or your target audience will pay given that so far all of the other social media sites are free . Jimmy i think so. We are having really good success so far. 10,000 people have signed up to pay. Not everyone is paying but a significant percentage. Millennials are an interesting group. They are used to paying for quality. They pay for netflix, spotify. People like me think everything is going to be free on the internet. Theres a new generation coming up that has seen that is not get what you want. Taylor you are very well versed in what it is like to have participants editing content as well. Given the fake news and misinformation that is out there, if i am able to edit content, how are you are ensuring what i am editing it is not also fake news . Jimmy the biggest thing is if you have collaborative control and Quality Community members overseeing things, it is pretty easy to say that source is not a quality source. This is a completely fake headline from a source nobody heard of. This is the kind of thing that does that really impact us at wikipedia at all. You cannot fool the Wikipedia Community with a fixed new story. Not for long anyway. Taylor mark was talking a lot in the congressional hearings. He was very frank when he said basically the ad supported model is the only way that it works. And that making it free for customers is the only way it works. Do you ever see yourself Going Forward being some supportive on ads as long as you can control the quality of those ads or are you going to 100 stay at free . Jimmy just like at wikipedia, we never made a promise we will remain adfree, but we have no interest in doing it. Same thing here. I dont want to say never because knows what will come down the road, but it is not interesting to me. I think mark is wrong about that. Yes, you can have a social network where everyone pays because some people will not pay and you are missing friends, does not work. A model that says maybe you chip in and then next year it will be your turn. That can work and that is what we are pursuing. Taylor that was wikipedia founder jimmy wales. Now, an unusual move for intel. The chipmaker is the first so willingly disclosed its pay in quality data which is otherwise private. Intel release details about the pay disparity in 2017 and 2018. The Company Provided the data to the u. S. Equal Employment Opportunity commission. The results are not flattering. Joining us to discuss, bloombergs jeff green in detroit. What did we learn today about intel in 2017 and 2018 . Jeff we probably did not learn anything that is a big surprise looking at the numbers. The big surprise is we can see the numbers at all. This is data every company had to release as of september, but intel may be the only one so far that is willing to share it. This is the macro information feeding into what you would think of as media income that shows where women are and where men are in their jobs. It is not flattering, but it is the first step to figuring out where the problems are. It taylor where are the biggest problems . Jeff kind of where you would expect. White men and asian men make the top paying jobs and women are clustered in the lower paying jobs. It is a structural problem in society and particularly in tech. Intel is saying they want to bring the light, that the industry has a problem. They are willing to share theirs, would you share yours . Taylor it is notable that intel is openly sharing more data than they need to. What is intel trying to tell us about why they are doing this . Jeff they are admitting this exposes them to vulnerability. They got beat up a bit today. For some people, it is a revelation. It is a fresh attack. Their thought is this only gets fixed that everyone is pulling in the same direction, and it need pressure to be on everyone. Also on themselves. They put a part of their pay for the top executives is fixing this. It is like external pressure for everyone to be able to look, employees included, and see how this plays out. Taylor do you think this creates enough pressure where other Tech Companies would step in and do the same . Jeff not of some of the recent examples are any evidence. Citigroup did this with media pay and there has not been a flood of banks joining them. Uber gave a report last week saying this is how many results we had. It is not like every other platform. I guess it start somewhere. You start to add these things up. Potentially, may be a regulator or changing government may weigh in. It is a loss leader thing where you are taking a big risk at of the get that may pay off in the future. Taylor it is notable these results for 2017 and 2018 were pretty much wrapping up 2019. Any indication that 2019 could have been better . Jeff we will never know. This data was collected under a program that was brought forth by the obama administration. And the Trump Administration has said we dont need to continue this, it is hard on the companies. This data in the current form will not be collected for 2019. We will have to see if there will be a new program or companies coming up with something voluntary that shows this. That is the sad part about this. This data is really interesting and we may never get a chance to see it again. Taylor jeff, do they offer any potential solutions on how to be the first to at least try to fix the problem . Jeff one of the things they pointed out is the industry is about 26 women available intact. They made it a goal to make 26 women. But the management is only 20 women. They are saying one of the ways you change the ratio is by making 20 26 of the executives women because that will push the women and see the higher paying and then it is math. You need more women in higherpaying jobs then lower paying jobs and that is something that in tech, premuch every industry, it has not happened. The overall pay difference in the u. S. Is women make . 81 on the dollar compared to men. This is just being able to see its one person at a time. Taylor i am not sure if you are anyone frankly can enter this point. Im from new york and we thought it was a big problem in finance. We come to San Francisco and find out tech is even worse. Why is tech the biggest sector that is struggling with this . Jeff i think it is who do you get coming out of college who wants to go into these jobs you get the graduates and then they come into the industry, from everything i have seen, they dont stay. They look at it and say can go somewhere else with his expertise because Everybody Needs tech. They go somewhere else and treated better. That is another thing intel is focusing on. They call that the warm line. If you were going you can call it if you need to think you need to leave and they are collecting the data and try to figure out what people want to leave. Why can we not keep these women . Taylor jeff green beginning to answer what is going to be a long discussion. Thank you for joining us. Still ahead, 40,000 pounds of butter delivered crosscountry in trucks. We will learn how that happened. Thats next. This is bloomberg. Taylor coast to coast holiday freight line with 40,000 pounds of butter. That is what ai did with this autonomous truck. The provider of selfdriving Truck Technology plus ai completed the first commercial crosscountry haul in three days. Here to ask how it happened, cofounder and chief operating officer shawn kerrigan. Thank you for joining us. Just three days, how much of that trip truly was autonomous driving . Shawn the vast majority was autonomous. We drove from california to pennsylvania. There are federal rules around brakes in terms of cruise ships. All of the trucks are staffed with safety drivers as well as an operations specialist. We had to follow all the federal rules for that. Aside from things like crew changes and so on or certain segments like Road Construction at the pennsylvania dot that asked us to drive through and manual. Aside from that, it was autonomous. Taylor what are companies telling you about the cost savings . Shawn i think people are really excited and interested in this technology. So, you know, it will be sometime before this technology is fully reached as a product. Tremendous benefits in terms of safety and cost savings. That is what we are setting out to demonstrate. Operating basically aroundtheclock for three days, going through the rockies and great plains and across the country. Demonstrating the overall reliability and safety and maturity of this technology. Taylor what is your relationship like with policymakers . You mentioned working with the Pennsylvania Department of transportation. How are you ensuring you are getting responsible and federal regulation . Shawn we try to be very proactive in terms of working with the different regulators. Earlier this year, we reached out to the state dot sunday 48 states. We announced a partnership with the minnesota dot around testing. We aim to be very proactive. We find something very encouraging. From a regulatory standpoint, there is interest in supporting this technology because of the safety. This technology has tremendous potential in terms the delivering safety benefits. Taylor is safety the biggest question you get from regulators . Shawn there are a lot of questions but safety how do you demonstrate the safety of the systems . One way is doing runs like this, demonstrating it works. Taylor i spoke with test hatch she came from spacex. She was watching the hype curve. She says we are in the frost of disillusionment. This will take way longer than any of us really expected. On your timeline, where are we in reaching true autonomy . Shawn we are focused on level four autonomy from tech. Able to go down the highway into distribution in the other side. Fully autonomous with better safety. We see the timeline around 2023. That timeline is not just a function of when our technology is ready. It is a function of when our partners are ready. That is why things like this is so important. It is a timeline for things like the truck platforms we build on our ready for autonomous, in terms of redundant systems for electrical and other components. Timelines for redundancy on the safety critical truck components. Things like brakes and steering, you need redundance. You look across all of those, it is about 2023. Taylor hopefully, we will have you back before 2023. That was shawn kerrigan. Thank you for joining us. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. Bloomberg technology is livestreaming on twitter. Check us out, technology. Follow our global breaking news network, quicktake, on twitter. This is bloomberg. Here, it all starts with a simple. Hello hi how can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone wifi up there . Uhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today. The following is a paid program. The opinions and views expressed do not reflect those of bloomberg lp, its affiliates, or its employees. The following is a paid presentation for new norton 360. We are on our laptops, shopping, paying bills. We believe what we are doing is private and safe. Sometimes its not. Technology has evolved, so have criminals. Anyone can be a target for cyber crime or identity theft. Even famous people